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OnBaseMachine
07-29-2009, 11:46 AM
Reds Hall of Fame ballot
Posted by JohnFay at 7/29/2009 11:36 AM EDT on Cincinnati.com

From the Reds:

10 Candidates Announced for 2010 Reds Hall of Fame Induction

Fans will choose the next Reds Hall of Famer on ballot sponsored by Cincyfavorites.com

CINCINNATI (July 29, 2009) – The Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame and Museum has announced the ten former Reds players who will appear on the Modern Player Ballot for induction into the Reds Hall of Fame in 2010.

Modern Player Candidates are: Bret Boone, Jeff Brantley, Norm Charlton, John Franco, Danny Graves, Kevin Mitchell, Hal Morris, Paul O’Neill, Chris Sabo, and Scott Sullivan.

To be eligible and considered for the ballot, the players must:

- Have played in at least three seasons with the Reds

- Have played within the last 13 years

- Be in at least their third year of retirement

Fans may cast their ballots from August 1 through September 2 at ballot boxes located at:

- Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame and Museum

- Great American Ball Park

- Participating Skyline locations

- Online at reds.com/HOF

The player receiving the most fan votes will be honored with induction as part of the Reds Hall of Fame’s Class of 2010. Fans can vote for up to three players.

Eligible players, managers and executives from more than 13 years ago will be considered for the Veterans Ballot and selected by the Veterans Committee.

Together, the Modern Player Ballot and Veterans Ballot results will comprise the 2010 Induction Class and will be announced later this year.

“The fans have been an integral part of Hall of Fame elections dating back to the first class in 1958,” said Hall of Fame executive director Rick Walls. “We are pleased to have the fans continue to play a significant role in determining ‘their’ next Hall of Famer.”

One lucky voter will receive two tickets to the 2010 Induction event, a “Super Cincinnati!” package from Cincyfavorites.com and a baseball signed by the 2010 class.

About the Reds Hall of Fame:

Established in 1958, The Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame is the oldest continually operating team Hall of Fame in all of baseball. Since its inception, 75 players, managers and executives have been honored with induction to the Reds Hall of Fame. The Reds Hall of Fame and Museum features 15,000 square feet of historical, interactive and educational exhibits, highlighting the rich and storied tradition of the Cincinnati Reds

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3aef213945-47f4-4ff9-995a-0dcd91248e1e&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Homer Bailey
07-29-2009, 11:53 AM
Brantley would get my vote. ERA+ of 159 during his tenure here.

Cyclone792
07-29-2009, 11:55 AM
Franco's my pick; six years, 528 innings pitched, a 153 ERA+ and 148 saves is pretty solid.

And BTW, if people rail against steroid users making Cooperstown, then they should also rail against Hal Morris reaching 100 Joe Nuxhall Way.

hebroncougar
07-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Man.........only 3 seasons as a Red, has this been the standard in the past? I mean, as much as I like Paul O'Neill, he's a Yankee for God's sake.

Joseph
07-29-2009, 11:59 AM
Franco's my pick; six years, 528 innings pitched, a 153 ERA+ and 148 saves is pretty solid.

And BTW, if people rail against steroid users making Cooperstown, then they should also rail against Hal Morris reaching 100 Joe Nuxhall Way.

Wasn't Boonie caught as well?

Franco would be my choice as well.

bucksfan2
07-29-2009, 12:00 PM
Boone, Graves, or Sullivan.

In my mind Franco was a Met and O'Niel was a Yankee. Brantley was a good pitcher but I don't really think him as a Red.

George Anderson
07-29-2009, 12:04 PM
I think the list isn't to HOF worthy, but if i had to pick one it would be Franco.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2009, 12:05 PM
My choice this year would be John Franco but I would like to see Scott Sullivan get in someday. He was an absolute workhorse out of the bullpen for a few years.

Hap
07-29-2009, 12:12 PM
Franco should be a lock. Those of us who remember him playing do not need an explanation. I have never seen a Reds reliever with more intestinal fortitude.

savafan
07-29-2009, 12:14 PM
As much as it hurts to say, Graves is the Reds all-time saves leader...

Hap
07-29-2009, 12:20 PM
As much as it hurts to say, Graves is the Reds all-time saves leader...

That is true.....

....but Franco was much, much better....

....he also pitched in many, many non-save situations, and presumably many situations where his manager had wagered on the outcome of the game, thereby putting him under intense pressure....

Homer Bailey
07-29-2009, 12:21 PM
Can we make this a poll? You get to vote for 3 guys only.

Jpup
07-29-2009, 12:21 PM
Danny Graves

savafan
07-29-2009, 12:23 PM
....but Franco was much, much better....

....he also pitched in many, many non-save situations, and presumably many situations where his manager had wagered on the outcome of the game, thereby putting him under intense pressure....

That's true, but I wonder how many people voting will remember Franco as anything more than a Met and the piece that brought us Randy Myers.

RedsBaron
07-29-2009, 12:25 PM
If I had to pick one I would go with Franco. In his six seasons with the Reds he was on three NL all star teams, lead the NL one season in saves with 39, and was the Rolaids relief man of the year in 1988.
When I checked his record I was surprised by how well Brantley pitched during his years years with Cincinnati, but Franco was here longer, and, while I can't prove it by the numbers I still think Franco was better. Brantley was here during a down time for the team.
Yep, Graves is the Reds career saves leader and had a few good seasons, but I would pass on him initially. Wait a year or two.
Paul O'Neill was here 8 seasons, including full years with the Reds from 1985 through 1992. He was a key member of the 1990 world champions. Yes, he had his greatest seasons in Yankee pinstripes, but he should eventually be in the Reds HOF.

savafan
07-29-2009, 12:28 PM
Yep, Graves is the Reds career saves leader and had a few good seasons, but I would pass on him initially. Wait a year or two.


I wonder if "the finger" will hurt him. After all, it is what got him sent out of town, as opposed to his crappy pitching...

HokieRed
07-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Franco. I like OBM's point about Sullivan, too, but I'm not quite sure it's enough to make the HOF.

Sea Ray
07-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Based on stats alone I'd go with Franco but my vote has to go to Scott Sullivan. His value to those clubs doesn't show up in stats. You could make a case that he earned it just by his numbers vs Jeff Bagwell. What was he, something like 0 for 33 against Sullivan? That saved a lot of runs vs a division rival. What I wouldn't give for a Scott Sullivan now...

Big Klu
07-29-2009, 12:36 PM
I know that he doesn't qualify because of the stipulation that the player must have played within the last 13 years, but Dan Driessen should be in the Reds Hall Of Fame.

RedsBaron
07-29-2009, 12:38 PM
I wonder if "the finger" will hurt him. After all, it is what got him sent out of town, as opposed to his crappy pitching...

Maybe at the induction ceremony Reds fans could give Graves the finger in return. ;)
Graves did have some good seasons here. Without him the 1999 season wouldn't have been as memorable.

wolfboy
07-29-2009, 12:40 PM
I mentioned this in a different thread, but Kevin Mitchell's numbers on offense as a Red were stellar.

wolfboy
07-29-2009, 12:44 PM
Based on stats alone I'd go with Franco but my vote has to go to Scott Sullivan. His value to those clubs doesn't show up in stats. You could make a case that he earned it just by his numbers vs Jeff Bagwell. What was he, something like 0 for 33 against Sullivan? That saved a lot of runs vs a division rival. What I wouldn't give for a Scott Sullivan now...

1999-2001, ERA+ of 156, 136 and 138. I think the stats show his value. Unfortunately, he also registered full seasons with an ERA+ of 83 and 71. Not really hall worthy IMHO.

Johnny Footstool
07-29-2009, 12:44 PM
That is true.....

....but Franco was much, much better....

....he also pitched in many, many non-save situations, and presumably many situations where his manager had wagered on the outcome of the game, thereby putting him under intense pressure....

Why would Franco be under "intense pressure" if his manager wagered on a game? Especially if said manager wagered on every game?

Franco was a great reliever, but your presumption here is off-base, IMO.

redsmetz
07-29-2009, 12:44 PM
Man.........only 3 seasons as a Red, has this been the standard in the past? I mean, as much as I like Paul O'Neill, he's a Yankee for God's sake.

Yeah, but Tom Seaver is in the Reds HOF and he's most certainly a Met. My instinct was to pick O'Neill as one, but he really blossomed after leaving Cincinnati. He really made his mark there. I wouldn't object to him being in our Hall, but I'm not sure he's at the mark (IMO).

My first choice would be Franco.

George Anderson
07-29-2009, 12:46 PM
I know that he doesn't qualify because of the stipulation that the player must have played within the last 13 years, but Dan Driessen should be in the Reds Hall Of Fame.

You sure about that?

Driessen had a career .267 BA, 153 HR's and 763 RBI's over the span of 11 years.

I know he was a very good defensive first baseman but other than that I don't see him as HOF worthy.

RedsBaron
07-29-2009, 12:53 PM
The Reds Hall of Fame already has outfielders such as Harry Craft, Ival Goodman, Mike McCormick and Cesar Geronimo. Paul O'Neill probably had as good a Reds career as they did.

Big Klu
07-29-2009, 12:57 PM
If I had to pick one I would go with Franco. In his six seasons with the Reds he was on three NL all star teams, lead the NL one season in saves with 39, and was the Rolaids relief man of the year in 1988.
When I checked his record I was surprised by how well Brantley pitched during his years years with Cincinnati, but Franco was here longer, and, while I can't prove it by the numbers I still think Franco was better. Brantley was here during a down time for the team.
Yep, Graves is the Reds career saves leader and had a few good seasons, but I would pass on him initially. Wait a year or two.
Paul O'Neill was here 8 seasons, including full years with the Reds from 1985 through 1992. He was a key member of the 1990 world champions. Yes, he had his greatest seasons in Yankee pinstripes, but he should eventually be in the Reds HOF.

O'Neill wasn't a full-time player until 1988. He was a September callup in '85 and '86, and he was a part-time player in '87. That being said, he is deserving of eventually beuing in the Reds HOF.

My three choices would be:

John Franco
Hal Morris
Chris Sabo

TRF
07-29-2009, 12:58 PM
Mitchell is eligible? Where's Sanders, Reggie?

wolfboy
07-29-2009, 01:00 PM
Mitchell is eligible? Where's Sanders, Reggie?

Only retired after the '07 season.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2009, 01:00 PM
Mitchell is eligible? Where's Sanders, Reggie?

Nice one, I forgot about Reggie. He belongs in the Reds Hall of Fame, IMO. In eight seasons with the Reds, he posted an .829 OPS, 118 OPS+, hit 125 home runs, stole 158 bases, and played in the postseason. Very underrated player, IMO.

Doh! Great point by wolfboy. Reggie isn't eligible yet.

RichRed
07-29-2009, 01:05 PM
I mentioned this in a different thread, but Kevin Mitchell's numbers on offense as a Red were stellar.

No question, but he had all of 874 PAs - roughly 1 1/3 seasons - in a Reds uniform. Putting him in the Reds HOF would be craziness, in my opinion.

My vote goes to Franco.

TRF
07-29-2009, 01:09 PM
Only retired after the '07 season.

seems like forever ago and yesterday at the same time.

Underrated player.

LoganBuck
07-29-2009, 01:10 PM
Why can't Willy Taveras flip someone off?

My choice would be Sabo, he was a fan favorite, Rookie of the Year, Allstar, cog in the 1990 team, and inspiration to many nearsighted young boys everywhere!

Unassisted
07-29-2009, 01:11 PM
I'll predict that all on that list but Mitchell and Sullivan get in eventually. Not saying they should, but that's where the bar of quality seems to be at the Reds HOF.

wolfboy
07-29-2009, 01:12 PM
No question, but he had all of 874 PAs - roughly 1 1/3 seasons - in a Reds uniform. Putting him in the Reds HOF would be craziness, in my opinion.

My vote goes to Franco.

IIRC, his '94 season was strike shortened (i.e., he wasn't on the DL when the strike happened). Not really his fault there. That being said, I don't believe he should be in the hall, nor did I argue that he should. I just pointed out that he put up some phenomenal numbers as a Red.

Matt700wlw
07-29-2009, 01:18 PM
Franco won Pete a lot of bets in his day...

:D

Sea Ray
07-29-2009, 01:29 PM
1999-2001, ERA+ of 156, 136 and 138. I think the stats show his value. Unfortunately, he also registered full seasons with an ERA+ of 83 and 71. Not really hall worthy IMHO.

Thus my point that his value doesn't show up in stats

wolfboy
07-29-2009, 01:44 PM
Thus my point that his value doesn't show up in stats

Thus my response that his value does show up in stats. :rolleyes:

MrCinatit
07-29-2009, 02:37 PM
Franco was one of my favorites. Broke my heart to see him go to New York. But during his time with the Reds, the little guy was one of the best in the game.
Graves will make it, eventually. But it will not be this year. Might be five or six or so.
Sabo has an outside chance. He has that whole "scrappy" thing going for him that the area guys seem to love so much.
Charlton might go in some day, just so the Nasty Boys can get some publicity.

RedsBaron
07-29-2009, 03:52 PM
IIRC, his '94 season was strike shortened (i.e., he wasn't on the DL when the strike happened). Not really his fault there. That being said, I don't believe he should be in the hall, nor did I argue that he should. I just pointed out that he put up some phenomenal numbers as a Red.

Mitchell is still credited the highest single season slugging percentage of any Red for his season in 1994 when he slugged .681.

TRF
07-29-2009, 04:01 PM
Mitchell is still credited the highest single season slugging percentage of any Red for his season in 1994 when he slugged .681.

oddly enough that was the year he ate 681 donuts too.

wolfboy
07-29-2009, 04:05 PM
oddly enough that was the year he ate 681 donuts too.

That's way conservative. Where are you getting those figures? Strike shortened or not, there's no way he was held to 681 donuts.

TRF
07-29-2009, 04:14 PM
That's way conservative. Where are you getting those figures? Strike shortened or not, there's no way he was held to 681 donuts.

well, not in the calendar year, and it doesn't take off days into consideration.

Eric_the_Red
07-29-2009, 04:35 PM
Franco or Graves.

Wasn't Sabo kind of an odd ball? I remember vaguely him giving an incoherent interview after winning the WS in '90. Might be worth it to put him in just for another opportunity to hear what nuggets of wisdom he may offer.

savafan
07-29-2009, 06:30 PM
I gotta believe, right or wrong, the fans will vote in Sabo. This city loved that guy.

RedsBaron
07-29-2009, 06:31 PM
I gotta believe, right or wrong, the fans will vote in Sabo. This city loved that guy.

Sabo wouldn't be the worst guy there.

Hap
07-29-2009, 08:21 PM
Wasn't Sabo kind of an odd ball? I remember vaguely him giving an incoherent interview after winning the WS in '90.

George Anderson
07-29-2009, 08:23 PM
That Sabo recording is a classic.

Sea Ray
07-29-2009, 08:41 PM
Thus my response that his value does show up in stats.


Thanks for proving my original statement.

Since we both agreed I was a little puzzled why you took the effort to prove a statement that wasn't in dispute, but whatever.

Team Clark
07-29-2009, 10:23 PM
Franco. That dude was tough. A good leader while in Cincy as well. Brantley would be a close second for me.

Team Clark
07-29-2009, 10:31 PM
Sabo wouldn't be the worst guy there.

He may be "odd" but the guy is a real treat. I enjoyed working with him and appreciate it more now that time has passed. His knowledge of Jazz and get this...Bio Chemical Engineering...is astounding. People think he's stupid because he acts a little goofy. They couldn't be more wrong. I am thankful when i run into him once or twice a year.

wolfboy
07-30-2009, 08:48 AM
Thanks for proving my original statement.

Since we both agreed I was a little puzzled why you took the effort to prove a statement that wasn't in dispute, but whatever.

I tried to lend support to your argument that Sullivan was an important cog on several Reds teams. I also pointed out that his good was equally matched by his bad. I'm sorry that was so puzzling for you.

I'll tell you what: you put me on ignore and your head won't spin so much. I'll put you on ignore and my head won't hurt so much. It's a win-win.

westofyou
07-30-2009, 09:48 AM
Sabo wouldn't be the worst guy there.No, that would be Harry Craft.