PDA

View Full Version : Cleveland's selling!!!!V-Mart???



schroomytunes
07-29-2009, 08:13 PM
Well Cleveland is selling guys left and right why not try to get Victor Martinez from them? V switch hits, plays a premier position and is under contract next year!

Highlifeman21
07-29-2009, 08:29 PM
Based on the thread title, I assumed a different poster started this thread.

Martinez would be a great target, sure, but who do we offer, and will Bob actually add payroll?

Pretty sure the answer to the 2nd part of the question negates the 1st part of the question...

savafan
07-29-2009, 08:32 PM
But why, unless you're not sold on Hanigan, or plan to displace Votto, but then, there's Alonso to think about...

redsfandan
07-30-2009, 06:36 AM
I'll pass.

Raisor
07-30-2009, 07:26 AM
I'd much rather the team look at VicMar then Rolen.

redsfandan
07-30-2009, 07:44 AM
I wouldn't. Rolen makes a little more sense than VMart.

I(heart)Freel
07-30-2009, 10:19 AM
I love VMart... but I think Hanigan has earned the starter role next year. My off season plan would be to find a vet backup at a decent price. Catch a couple times a week, and be a useful bat off the bench.

Here's some potential FAs:

Catchers
Josh Bard BOS
Henry Blanco SD
Ramon Castro CWS
Ramon Hernandez * CIN
Jason Kendall MIL
Jason LaRue STL
Victor Martinez * CLE
Benji Molina SF
Jose Molina NYY
Miguel Olivo * KC
Mike Redmond MIN
Brian Schneider NYM
Yorvit Torrealba * COL
Jason Varitek * BOS
Gregg Zaun * BAL

* - player whose current contract includes 2010 option

Falls City Beer
07-30-2009, 10:23 AM
As a catcher Martinez is a good DH. No thanks.

blumj
07-30-2009, 10:26 AM
He's a better fit for a team that could use him as a part-time C, part-time 1B or DH, the way the Indians do, not so much for an NL team with a full time 1st baseman.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 11:01 AM
If the plan is really for Votto to move to LF to make room for Alonso, why not start it one year early? The rest of 2009 could be a test-run for Votto in LF. I know I wouldn't mind having Stubbs in the lineup nearly as much if VMart was the cleanup hitter, and Stubbs' presence would mitigate the defensive liability of having Votto in LF. If the experiment doesn't work out for whatever reason, you can trade VMart in the offseason for a similar return to what you gave up. You can also get Alonso an outfielder's mitt, or shop him in the offseason to bring in a SS, LF, or SP as well.

It's a relatively risk-free move that could tell you a lot about your future (not to mention fire up the completely demoralized fan base.)

BRM
07-30-2009, 11:02 AM
If the plan is really for Votto to move to LF to make room for Alonso, why not start it one year early?

Because you can't move a guy to a new position in the middle of a pennant race...

Benihana
07-30-2009, 11:06 AM
Because you can't move a guy to a new position in the middle of a pennant race...

I assume you're being facetious?

BRM
07-30-2009, 11:08 AM
I assume you're being facetious?

I was hoping it would be obvious. ;)

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 11:11 AM
Martinez in the near future is a 1B or DH. His catching days are numbered and isn't a good target for the Reds. They don't have a DH and 1b looks log jammed right now with Votto and Alonso.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Martinez in the near future is a 1B or DH. His catching days are numbered and isn't a good target for the Reds. They don't have a DH and 1b looks log jammed right now with Votto and Alonso.

I like him as a 1B. If the plan is to eventually move Votto to LF, might as well try it now when nothing is on the line. Alonso won't be ready until mid-2010 IMO. By that time, the Reds are either contending (and can think about trading Alonso) or tanking (and can trade VMart before the deadline.) I think it would be a bold yet brilliant move.

BRM
07-30-2009, 11:20 AM
Bold and brilliant. Yeah, that defines the Reds right there.

redsfandan
07-30-2009, 11:24 AM
If the plan is really for Votto to move to LF to make room for Alonso, why not start it one year early? The rest of 2009 could be a test-run for Votto in LF. I know I wouldn't mind having Stubbs in the lineup nearly as much if VMart was the cleanup hitter, and Stubbs' presence would mitigate the defensive liability of having Votto in LF. If the experiment doesn't work out for whatever reason, you can trade VMart in the offseason for a similar return to what you gave up. You can also get Alonso an outfielder's mitt, or shop him in the offseason to bring in a SS, LF, or SP as well.

It's a relatively risk-free move that could tell you a lot about your future (not to mention fire up the completely demoralized fan base.)
True, since you put it that way it could work in theory. VMart could split his abs between catcher and 1st with Alonso up in late 2010 and taking over 1st in 2011. It would just depend on how much the Tribe would want... and Votto moving to left.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 11:26 AM
True, since you put it that way it could work in theory. VMart could split his abs between catcher and 1st until Alonso is ready. It would just depend on how much the Tribe would want... and Votto moving to left.

I would guess that Frazier and Wood might get it done. I would pull the trigger on that, especially if they could get Rolen for EE and a lesser prospect.

RedlegJake
07-30-2009, 11:26 AM
Martinez isn't going anywhere - the Indians see him at first now with Garko gone and as the emergency catcher with Shoppach and Marston #1 and 2.

BRM
07-30-2009, 11:26 AM
I like him as a 1B. If the plan is to eventually move Votto to LF, might as well try it now when nothing is on the line. Alonso won't be ready until mid-2010 IMO. By that time, the Reds are either contending (and can think about trading Alonso) or tanking (and can trade VMart before the deadline.) I think it would be a bold yet brilliant move.

Maybe the actual plan is to leave Votto at 1B and trade Alonso for something of need later on?

Benihana
07-30-2009, 11:26 AM
Martinez isn't going anywhere - the Indians see him at first now with Garko gone and as the emergency catcher with Shoppach and Marston #1 and 2.

All published reports would seem to disagree with you.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 12:17 PM
Maybe the actual plan is to leave Votto at 1B and trade Alonso for something of need later on?

If that is indeed the case, given the current prospect bubble, now would be a hell of a time to trade Alonso. Make him the centerpiece of a package for Halladay. He would probably be the best prospect they've been offered so far.

Getting back to VMart...


Meanwhile, Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports say "other, unidentified teams are believed to be interested in Martinez as well."

Keeping the dream alive.

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 12:19 PM
I like him as a 1B. If the plan is to eventually move Votto to LF, might as well try it now when nothing is on the line. Alonso won't be ready until mid-2010 IMO. By that time, the Reds are either contending (and can think about trading Alonso) or tanking (and can trade VMart before the deadline.) I think it would be a bold yet brilliant move.

It would probably take Alonso to get Martinez. So you wouldn't really have Alonso as a trading chip, Martinez at 1b, and Votto in LF.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2009, 12:22 PM
It would probably take Alonso to get Martinez. So you wouldn't really have Alonso as a trading chip, Martinez at 1b, and Votto in LF.

If they traded Alonso for Martinez, they should just put rocks in their suits and walk into the Ohio.

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 12:31 PM
If they traded Alonso for Martinez, they should just put rocks in their suits and walk into the Ohio.

Sorry it would take Alonso + for that deal. My point was that if the Reds traded for Martinez then Alonso would be gone.

Unassisted
07-30-2009, 12:33 PM
Because you can't move a guy to a new position in the middle of a pennant race...


I assume you're being facetious?Don't joke about this. Last year, when the Reds played contenders in September, Dusty was claiming a need to preserve the integrity of the pennant race as his excuse not to play the young guys.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 12:46 PM
Sorry it would take Alonso + for that deal. My point was that if the Reds traded for Martinez then Alonso would be gone.

I don't think that's correct. I bet he ends up going for less than that (doubt there will be a Top 15 prospect coming back.) And if I'm wrong, then I wouldn't trade for Martinez.

savafan
07-30-2009, 01:25 PM
Word is the Indians turned down Buckholz for Martinez straight up

Falls City Beer
07-30-2009, 01:27 PM
Word is the Indians turned down Buckholz for Martinez straight up

The Indians will come down off that demand, but it's going to net them very little by way of offers.

I actually don't think they're all that interested in moving Martinez. I imagine they're using him to calibrate the market, then do a bait and switch.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 01:40 PM
The Indians will come down off that demand, but it's going to net them very little by way of offers.

I actually don't think they're all that interested in moving Martinez. I imagine they're using him to calibrate the market, then do a bait and switch.

If by bait and switch you mean trade Carlos Santana, then yes please.

If they hang onto Martinez, and have Shoppach and Marson, where does that leave Santana?

Falls City Beer
07-30-2009, 01:41 PM
If by bait and switch you mean trade Carlos Santana, then yes please.

Possibly. But probably not that good.

I'd take Shoppach off their hands.

cincrazy
07-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Martinez as thrown out 5 runners all year. That's Piazzaesque. No thank you.

blumj
07-30-2009, 02:49 PM
Word is the Indians turned down Buckholz for Martinez straight up

Word I've heard is that's backwards, the Red Sox turned it down.

savafan
07-31-2009, 02:19 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4368061

The Boston Red Sox and the Cleveland Indians were discussing a three-way trade Thursday night that would send Victor Martinez to Boston, Clay Buchholz to Cleveland and prospects flying in all directions, according to clubs that spoke to both teams.

The Red Sox also would attempt to move recently acquired Adam LaRoche, either to a third team or in a companion deal, to make room for Martinez in their lineup, one source said.

The Red Sox have spent several days working on parallel deals with Toronto for Roy Halladay, San Diego for Adrian Gonzalez and Cleveland for Martinez. There were indications Thursday afternoon that they were making no headway with Toronto and San Diego, but that they were having trouble making the pieces fit with Cleveland.

They began contacting other teams to help make the deal fit and are believed to still be searching for a third team.

One potential reason for involving a third club was the need to find a destination for LaRoche, who would seem to be crowded out by the acquisition of another bat for the Boston lineup. But with very few contending teams searching for a first baseman, finding a taker for LaRoche could be a challenge.

In the meantime, the Red Sox don't appear to be the only team talking to the Indians about Martinez. There were also indications Thursday that Cleveland was still having conversations with Tampa Bay. The Indians were heavily scouting the Rays' system and had multiple scouts watching their triple-A Durham team.

However, the Rays don't seem to have the financial flexibility to absorb the approximately $2 million left on Martinez's contract this year without subtracting a player such as Scott Kazmir at the same time. One source familiar with the Rays' thinking admitted the team was still a long shot to pull off two deals that big.

Jayson Stark is a senior baseball writer for ESPN.com