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Kc61
07-30-2009, 04:39 PM
The deadline is 4pm EDT tomorrow. It's one of the times of year when there is player movement. The Reds have played extremely poorly the last three weeks and are out of the race barring a major miracle.

If there is Reds trade action, perhaps this is a place to post it. Not general MLB trade activity, but serious rumors or actual Reds moves.

Could be an empty thread, but who knows.

An easy reference point for Reds deals or strong rumors of Reds deals.

BRM
07-30-2009, 04:40 PM
As Ltlabner says, there is always hope.

Caveat Emperor
07-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Most of the contracts around here are so large that the players involved will clear waivers, making tomorrow's deadlnie moot.

Weathers and Rhodes probably have to move by tomorrow if they're gonna move, but the big numbers (Harang, Arroyo, Cordero) will all be on the table methinks.

Kc61
07-30-2009, 04:47 PM
Most of the contracts around here are so large that the players involved will clear waivers, making tomorrow's deadlnie moot.

Weathers and Rhodes probably have to move by tomorrow if they're gonna move, but the big numbers (Harang, Arroyo, Cordero) will all be on the table methinks.

The Reds players may easily pass through waivers. But if you wait beyond tomorrow, the guys coming to the Reds may have trouble getting through.

If they wait, it limits the available players, at least those in the major leagues.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2009, 04:51 PM
I would be shocked if Jocketty makes a move.

BRM
07-30-2009, 04:52 PM
I would be shocked if Jocketty makes a move.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to feel the same way.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 04:55 PM
I would be shocked if Jocketty makes a move.

OBM, I will actually agree with your signature if no move is made. Walt Jocketty should be fired if nothing is done by this time tomorrow. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Homer Bailey
07-30-2009, 04:56 PM
I would be shocked if Jocketty makes a move.

I've said that from Day 1. I think it's silly how crazy this board has gotten over the last week. Seriously what are you guys expecting?

Benihana
07-30-2009, 04:57 PM
I've said that from Day 1. I think it's silly how crazy this board has gotten over the last week. Seriously what are you guys expecting?

a pulse

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:00 PM
I've said that from Day 1. I think it's silly how crazy this board has gotten over the last week. Seriously what are you guys expecting?

I think the expectations have gone to the extreme over the last two weeks.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2009, 05:00 PM
I think the expectations have gone to the extreme over the last two weeks.

Yeah, expecting our GM to make a move is extreme.

BRM
07-30-2009, 05:01 PM
I've said that from Day 1. I think it's silly how crazy this board has gotten over the last week. Seriously what are you guys expecting?

A sign from the FO that they actually want to compete sometime soon.

Raisor
07-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Pending a physical, the Reds have traded: San Ity to Colorado for Morath Esame

Homer Bailey
07-30-2009, 05:02 PM
The fact that there has been serious discussion about the Reds acquiring Halladay shows how much Reds fans are truly in denial about their franchise.

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Yeah, expecting our GM to make a move is extreme.

If there isn't a move out there to make the club better than why make a move? I mean come on, making a move just to make a move gets teams into trouble.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 05:04 PM
If there isn't a move out there to make the club better than why make a move? I mean come on, making a move just to make a move gets teams into trouble.

This is Mike Brown speak.

Get creative. Be proactive. There are plenty of things to be done, especially when you have a plethora of minor league talent.

Kc61
07-30-2009, 05:04 PM
If there isn't a move out there to make the club better than why make a move? I mean come on, making a move just to make a move gets teams into trouble.

The Reds need to do something and I think they will do something. They probably feel like they owe it to the fans to show a pulse. And that they are trying.

It could be a lateral move, perhaps giving up some more bullpen for hitting. Or a minor league move.

But I expect something. Then again, I expected over 80 wins this year.

Raisor
07-30-2009, 05:05 PM
I think ya'll are forgeting that Walt DID do something, and now they have a dude named "Wadamir" or something.

BRM
07-30-2009, 05:06 PM
If there isn't a move out there to make the club better than why make a move? I mean come on, making a move just to make a move gets teams into trouble.

Yeah, that's what RedsZoner's are asking Walt to do. Make a move simply for the sake of making a move. None of us care if the move actually helps the team. C'mon.

BRM
07-30-2009, 05:07 PM
The fact that there has been serious discussion about the Reds acquiring Halladay shows how much Reds fans are truly in denial about their franchise.

I haven't seen any serious discussion about it. Just a lot of posters hoping and wishing Walt could pull it off.

medford
07-30-2009, 05:07 PM
Ok legit question, who would really want Harrangatang right now? He hasn't exactly put it together and while I'm sure he could be moved w/ the right combination of cash given up and low prospects in return, his value has to be pretty low. Arroyo probably has a bit more value for the stretch run, but given his contract, I'm guessing many teams aren't chomping at the bit to land him.

who else would anyone want? Corderro? Makes a ton for a reliever in today's market, Weathers? Probably not a huge difference maker, same for Rhodes. JHJ? Nope, Edwin? Not for a contender, someone looking long term perhpas? Wily T, come on now.

Frankly, there's not too many players on this team right now that would be attractive to me over the next several weeks of a penant chase. the guys that would excite me, Votto and Philips aren't going to be moved. It takes 2 to tango, and I'm not sure that Walt has many chips to exchange at this point, unless he just wants to give them away and eat a bunch of contract as well.

At this point, I'm thinking Arroyo, Weathers and Rhodes are the only ones w/ any chance to be moved. Several teams could use a league average pitcher that can eat innings the rest of the way and be better than their 5th starter. Arroyo will give you that, but do you want to pay him next year's salary? Probably not.

Kc61
07-30-2009, 05:08 PM
At this point, I'm thinking Arroyo, Weathers and Rhodes are the only ones w/ any chance to be moved. Several teams could use a league average pitcher that can eat innings the rest of the way and be better than their 5th starter. Arroyo will give you that, but do you want to pay him next year's salary? Probably not.

Reds could trade prospects for a veteran who has years left on his contract. Doesn't have to be a salary dump move, could be a "buyer's" move.

Requires spending money though.

Raisor
07-30-2009, 05:09 PM
. C'mon.

http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/217d4b52ccddcde0

BRM
07-30-2009, 05:10 PM
Reds could trade prospects for a veteran who has years left on his contract. Doesn't have to be a salary dump move, could be a "buyer's" move.

Requires spending money though.

Which is exactly why it won't happen.

medford
07-30-2009, 05:11 PM
true, historically, people in the reds position are not buyers at this point. If a player is worth keeping around long term, he's likely not on the market, though I'm sure a player or 2 could be had. They've already been hesitant to add money at the end of free agency, I can't imagine it will be much easier to convince Walt to spend money w/ Harang & Arroyo still on the books next year.

IslandRed
07-30-2009, 05:12 PM
Most of the contracts around here are so large that the players involved will clear waivers, making tomorrow's deadlnie moot.

Weathers and Rhodes probably have to move by tomorrow if they're gonna move, but the big numbers (Harang, Arroyo, Cordero) will all be on the table methinks.

Yeah, I've said that before. I think at least one of them is dealt, but it will be next month.

Kc61
07-30-2009, 05:13 PM
true, historically, people in the reds position are not buyers at this point. If a player is worth keeping around long term, he's likely not on the market, though I'm sure a player or 2 could be had. .


There are other teams selling good veterans. Even guys with years on their contract. Teams that are going with youth.

If the Reds want to buy, they probably can. Like the possible Rolen deal.

At this point, though, expectations can't be high. They just don't make big, positive veteran acquisitions, haven't for years.

TheNext44
07-30-2009, 05:15 PM
OBM, I will actually agree with your signature if no move is made. Walt Jocketty should be fired if nothing is done by this time tomorrow. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Actually, I'd rather he do nothing, than make a bad trade. No reason to do something just to please the fans.

We have no idea what the other teams are asking for, and we know that the Reds don't have much to offer. I still think at the least he gets Rolen, if the price is right.

It would be great to move one of the big three, Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, but it will be tough, and they might be worth more to the Reds than what they bring back, if the Reds have to throw in a lot of money. They still are producing, it's not like they are that much overpaid like Taveras.

My fantasy is that he is working on trading Harang, Alonso, EE, Wood, Roenicke and Valiaka (or something similar) for Halladay, Rolen, and Scutaro.

Reds1
07-30-2009, 05:16 PM
At this point I'm hoping for trades of Weathers, Arroyo, and other similar type players for prespects in hopes to get a prospect and free some cash for the off season. I'm a keeper of Harang though. I'd put him out there so to see what sticks.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 05:16 PM
true, historically, people in the reds position are not buyers at this point. If a player is worth keeping around long term, he's likely not on the market, though I'm sure a player or 2 could be had. They've already been hesitant to add money at the end of free agency, I can't imagine it will be much easier to convince Walt to spend money w/ Harang & Arroyo still on the books next year.

Creativity and historically don't mix.

TheNext44
07-30-2009, 05:19 PM
I haven't seen any serious discussion about it. Just a lot of posters hoping and wishing Walt could pull it off.

It was reported on MLBTR that the Jay's were impressed with the Reds and Brewers offers for Halladay, but that they doubted he would okay a trade to either of them.

But that still has stopped me from hoping and wishing. :D

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:20 PM
This is Mike Brown speak.

Get creative. Be proactive. There are plenty of things to be done, especially when you have a plethora of minor league talent.

Who can the Reds trade right now? Seriously which Reds have value on the trade market, while also are expendable by the Reds? The Reds aren't in position to take on an expiring contract, they are also not in a place for a player to waive his no trade clause to come and play for.

Here is who I think the Reds would want to trade with reasons why they won't be traded.

Arroyo - The only Reds pitcher who has been impressive over his last 3 starts. The Yankees wanted Arroyo but wanted financial help from the Reds to do so. If the Reds are going to pay for Arroyo then why not have him pitch on their team? Also Lee is the only name starting pitcher that has been traded so far so teams might jump in closer to the deadline for Arroyo.

Harang - Who would want him right now? The guy is 11-29 in the past two years. He just gave up 5 runs in the first inning last night. He needs to get a doctor to remove his head from his rear. The only way Harang gets traded this year is if the Reds pick up a chunk of his salary.

Rhodes - The most logical pitcher to get traded. Sherrill was the premier LH reliever and just got traded. I have a feeling he will be moved as well. His age is the only downfall as of right now.

Weathers - Quality reliever who may get moved at the deadline. Don't expect much back in return. Heath Bell looks to be the premier RH reliever still available.

Cordero - Bell is cheaper that Cordero. If teams want salary relief then you will likely end up paying a large portion of Cordero's salary to have him pitch for another team. Not a winning formula.

The reality of the situation is the Reds are sellers right now. If no buyers want their product then they can't make a move. I can't recall any moves made at the July deadline that were geared towards the following season. The only move I can think of like that is when the Pirates traded for Matt Morris at the deadline and that back fired big time.

Kc61
07-30-2009, 05:24 PM
If I were predicting, I would predict Weathers will go. Reds won't pick up his option for over $3 million for another year. He should be desired by someone.

I see Rhodes as less likely because he is cheaper and has been so good. Why trade him? He is excellent, doesn't cost much, and there are no lefties waiting to pitch the 8th for the Reds.

My guess would be two trades.

First, Weathers for a semi-good prospect.

Second, the Rolen deal with Toronto for EE and maybe Roenicke.

I hope there is more because this current group is really not very entertaining.

BRM
07-30-2009, 05:26 PM
Weathers for a middling prospect might be as good as it's going to get this week.

flyer85
07-30-2009, 05:27 PM
:sleep:

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:27 PM
If I were predicting, I would predict Weathers will go. Reds won't pick up his option for over $3 million for another year. He should be desired by someone.

I see Rhodes as less likely because he is cheaper and has been so good. Why trade him? He is excellent, doesn't cost much, and there are no lefties waiting to pitch the 8th for the Reds.

My guess would be two trades.

First, Weathers for a semi-good prospect.

Second, the Rolen deal with Toronto for EE and maybe Roenicke.

I hope there is more because this current group is really not very entertaining.

That is why other teams would want him and would pay for him. Good and cheap go a long way in this market, average and expensive don't.

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:27 PM
Creativity and historically don't mix.

How are you going to be creative if no one wants what you are offering?

Benihana
07-30-2009, 05:27 PM
Who can the Reds trade right now? Seriously which Reds have value on the trade market, while also are expendable by the Reds? The Reds aren't in position to take on an expiring contract, they are also not in a place for a player to waive his no trade clause to come and play for.

Here is who I think the Reds would want to trade with reasons why they won't be traded.

Arroyo - The only Reds pitcher who has been impressive over his last 3 starts. The Yankees wanted Arroyo but wanted financial help from the Reds to do so. If the Reds are going to pay for Arroyo then why not have him pitch on their team? Also Lee is the only name starting pitcher that has been traded so far so teams might jump in closer to the deadline for Arroyo.

Harang - Who would want him right now? The guy is 11-29 in the past two years. He just gave up 5 runs in the first inning last night. He needs to get a doctor to remove his head from his rear. The only way Harang gets traded this year is if the Reds pick up a chunk of his salary.

Rhodes - The most logical pitcher to get traded. Sherrill was the premier LH reliever and just got traded. I have a feeling he will be moved as well. His age is the only downfall as of right now.

Weathers - Quality reliever who may get moved at the deadline. Don't expect much back in return. Heath Bell looks to be the premier RH reliever still available.

Cordero - Bell is cheaper that Cordero. If teams want salary relief then you will likely end up paying a large portion of Cordero's salary to have him pitch for another team. Not a winning formula.

The reality of the situation is the Reds are sellers right now. If no buyers want their product then they can't make a move. I can't recall any moves made at the July deadline that were geared towards the following season. The only move I can think of like that is when the Pirates traded for Matt Morris at the deadline and that back fired big time.

Again being creative and following history don't mix.

You want some guys (with value) that the Reds could move? Here we go:

1. Rhodes - even you acknowledge he has good trade value.
2. Weathers - Grabow is going to the Cubs. Tons of interest in Bell. Somebody will want Weathers.
3. Encarnacion- like him or not he does have trade value.
4. Bailey- probably needs a change of scenery while he still has trade value. See here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-fadedwood072909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns).
5. Stubbs- trade him before he turns into Felix Pie. Again, see here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-fadedwood072909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns).
6. - 25. Basically anyone in the minor league system (Wood, Frazier, Heisey, Francisco, etc. etc. etc.)

Harang and/or Arroyo could easily be moved next month after they pass through waivers (and Arroyo hopefully strings together a few more nice starts.) In the meantime, there's plenty of work to be done.

medford
07-30-2009, 05:28 PM
Creativity and historically don't mix.

Well you can always wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets full faster.

Historical trends is about the only way one can predict the future w/o any inside information, and I'm greatly lacking any inside information.

Besides, I'm not sure how you put together a trade without being creative. Its not like two teams are going to take darts, throw 'em against a wall and agree to trade the players who's name they land on.

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:33 PM
Again being creative and following history don't mix.

You want some guys (with value) that the Reds could move? Here we go:

1. Rhodes
2. Weathers
3. Encarnacion (like it or not he does have trade value)
4. Bailey (probably needs a change of scenery while he still has trade value)
5. Stubbs
6. - 25. Basically anyone in the minor league system (Wood, Frazier, Heisey, Francisco, etc. etc. etc.)

Harang and/or Arroyo could easily be moved next month after they pass through waivers (and Arroyo hopefully strings together a few more nice starts.) In the meantime, there's plenty of work to be done.

Teams don't trade good, locked up players at the July trade deadline. You can be as creative as you want, if no one wants what you offer then you creativity falls on def ears.

1,2,3 are likely trade candidates that won't really bring you back much in return. I agree that they should be traded.

4. Why trade Bailey when he shows he is finally getting it? Why trade him for a prospect and go through the same things you did with Bailey

5. I realize you dislike Stubbs so I won't even broach that topic.

6. Trade away your farm system, that is the way to build a good team, especially with limited finances.

dsmith421
07-30-2009, 05:33 PM
No reason to do something just to please the fans.

At the rate this club is going, there aren't going to be any fans to please, anyway.

There are college seniors right now who probably have only a vague recollection of the Reds making the playoffs. An entire lost generation of Reds fans. Absolutely amazing.

Benihana
07-30-2009, 05:34 PM
Besides, I'm not sure how you put together a trade without being creative. Its not like two teams are going to take darts, throw 'em against a wall and agree to trade the players who's name they land on.

Or you could sit back and do what the Reds (and Mike Brown) do and wait for somebody to come to you with an offer. When nobody does, you can say "Hey- there was nothing for us to do!"

Go to the bar one night and see how many beautiful girls approach you. I think you'll learn the lesson pretty quickly.

Kc61
07-30-2009, 05:34 PM
All you guys who want to trade Rhodes because he is cheap and good, the question is what is anyone going to give up for a 39 year old reliever?

He wasn't very popular in the off-season, the Reds got him for like $2 million a year.

I agree that he seems like the most valuable guy available, but I wouldn't trade him for a middling prospect. The Reds do need some players for next season. I'd rather keep Rhodes.

Eric_the_Red
07-30-2009, 05:40 PM
Do we really believe that the Reds would do anything to please the fans? When is the last time the Reds showed that they had any interest or inclination in pleasing (or even acknowledging) the fans?

Benihana
07-30-2009, 05:41 PM
Teams don't trade good, locked up players at the July trade deadline. You can be as creative as you want, if no one wants what you offer then you creativity falls on def ears.

So offer them something they may want. With the Prospect Bubble these days, I'd say there's plenty to offer.


1,2,3 are likely trade candidates that won't really bring you back much in return. I agree that they should be traded.

4. Why trade Bailey when he shows he is finally getting it? Why trade him for a prospect and go through the same things you did with Bailey

5. I realize you dislike Stubbs so I won't even broach that topic.

6. Trade away your farm system, that is the way to build a good team, especially with limited finances.

1 and 2 are relievers with track records and ERAs ≤ 3.00. Given the well documented interest in Bell, Sherril, Grabow, etc. there should be enough interest to bring back a good return.

Bailey finally gets it? Gee, his 6.84 ERA suggests otherwise. I didn't say you had to trade him for a prospect. Again, be creative. The Rays traded Delmon Young for a similar guy who had fallen out of favor, and all that did was get them to the World Series.

No, keeping the entire farm system has been a great way to build a team. So many gems, heaven forbid you risk giving one up. Do you know how many All-Star teams we can field with all the great players we have in the minors?

bucksfan2
07-30-2009, 05:41 PM
Or you could sit back and do what the Reds (and Mike Brown) do and wait for somebody to come to you with an offer. When nobody does, you can say "Hey- there was nothing for us to do!"

Go to the bar one night and see how many beautiful girls approach you. I think you'll learn the lesson pretty quickly.

If you are good looking enough girls will come up and talk to you :cool:

TheNext44
07-30-2009, 05:50 PM
If you are good looking enough girls will come up and talk to you :cool:

I have feeling this is what the 2009 Reds look like.

5562 5563 5564 5565

Raisor
07-30-2009, 06:01 PM
The Following Takes Place Between 5pm and 6pm.

Cast as CTU Director Bill Buchanan:

"Jack! Use the protocols and find us a way out of this! I told you, the losing stops now!"

Billy Bavasi as: Chloe

"Jack! I've got a red flag on sub system 1GG1, this means something!"

and Walt J as Agent Jack Bauer:

"ENOUGH! I've already killed 25 deals today, I'm only one man! I can't take it anymore"

Chloe:
"Man up Jack, it's time!"

Jack:

"you're right Chloe. I lost my head for a second. Get me JJ on the phone. I've got a Rolen to capture. Dead or alive"

and Special Apperance by Dusy Baker, as Dusty Baker:

No basecloggers Walt, uh I mean Jack (is that what' we're doing?)

Homer Bailey
07-30-2009, 06:02 PM
The Following Takes Place Between 5pm and 6pm.

Cast as CTU Director Bill Buchanan:

"Jack! Use the protocols and find us a way out of this! I told you, the losing stops now!"

Billy Bavasi as: Chloe

"Jack! I've got a red flag on sub system 1GG1, this means something!"

and Walt J as Agent Jack Bauer:

"ENOUGH! I've already killed 25 deals today, I'm only one man! I can't take it anymore"

Chloe:
"Man up Jack, it's time!"

Jack:

"you're right Chloe. I lost my head for a second. Get me JJ on the phone. I've got a Rolen to capture. Dead or alive"

and Special Apperance by Dusy Baker, as Dusty Baker:

No basecloggers Walt, uh I mean Jack (is that what' we're doing?)

(Darn) it Chloe there's not enough time!

Strikes Out Looking
07-30-2009, 06:06 PM
I just saw on twitter that Jocketty has made a move--someone saw him leave a stall and wash his hands.

I'm not expecting anything because, well, there hasn't been anything done for years so why start now?

Homer Bailey
07-30-2009, 06:11 PM
I posted this in the game thread, but many (wisely) ignored the game today:

For those listening or not listening on the radio, Thom just invited all listeners to email the Reds booth if they had a boat that the Cowboy could borrow this weekend. So I emailed the following:

"Mr. Walt Jocketty has a boat for you! It's called the Titanic. However, he plans on shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic as it sinks."

He then said on the air, I have a great email that unfortunately I can not read it on the air. So I emailed again and asked if it was my email that he couldn't read on the air, and he confirmed that it was.

Nice to know that Thom is as fed up with this crap as we are.

BRM
07-30-2009, 06:15 PM
Too bad he wouldn't read it on the air.

BRM
07-30-2009, 06:17 PM
Saw this in the comments section of Fay's blog. I think a lot of Reds fans feel the same way these days.


I have the least amount of interest I have ever had... I guess I am still checking the blog... but my Reds pulse is close to a flat line situation..

Benihana
07-30-2009, 06:17 PM
4:13pm: ESPN's Peter Gammons says the Reds "backed off a potential deal" for Rolen. The Reds are actually hoping to move some contracts, and will listen on Bronson Arroyo, David Weathers, Aaron Harang, and Arthur Rhodes. Plus there's the issue of the Jays not wanting to trade Rolen if they keep Halladay.

Well, at least there's that...

"Will listen" should be "Are proactively trying to move"

edabbs44
07-30-2009, 06:18 PM
ESPN's Peter Gammons is reporting that the Reds have backed off a potential deal for Toronto third baseman Scott Rolen.

Other clubs say they've been told that the Reds need to move money before they add payroll. Rolen has about $3 million in salary left this year and is guaranteed $11 million next year. The Reds have been looking for teams that might want to take on the contracts of Bronson Arroyo ($11M next year, plus a $2M buyout) and David Weathers (about $1M left this year, plus a $400,000 buyout), and they've also been willing to listen to offers on Aaron Harang ($12.5M next year, plus a $2M buyout) and Arthur Rhodes ($2M next year).

edabbs44
07-30-2009, 06:21 PM
The Arroyo extension...the gift that keeps on giving.

BRM
07-30-2009, 06:26 PM
Shed contracts. Because the Reds are flat out awesome when it comes to spending PayFlex wisely.

icehole3
07-30-2009, 07:50 PM
Ken Broo reported that Bob Cast has told Walt J that he isnt allowed to take on anymore salaries, so I expect them to stand pat. Nobody wants Harang or Arroyo that bad.

edabbs44
07-30-2009, 07:55 PM
Ken Broo reported that Bob Cast has told Walt J that he isnt allowed to take on anymore salaries, so I expect them to stand pat. Nobody wants Harang or Arroyo that bad.

Sweet.

I think someone called me Eeyore when I questioned the infamous Arroyo extension at the time.

Oh well.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2009, 07:57 PM
I'm tired of the excuses for Jocketty. I have a feeling the reactions would be different if Wayne Krivsky was still around and having as bad a year as Jocketty has had. I can already see it now, if he doesn't make any moves it will be Castellini's fault, not Walt's.

nate
07-30-2009, 08:04 PM
Can we get the "24" countdown clock for this thread?

edabbs44
07-30-2009, 08:04 PM
I'm tired of the excuses for Jocketty. I have a feeling the reactions would be different if Wayne Krivsky was still around and having as bad a year as Jocketty has had.

Seriously? There has been pretty much open mockery by other GMs regarding 3 contracts that he received high praise for. $35ish million going to 2 starters who are imploding and a closer on an awful team.

oneupper
07-30-2009, 08:12 PM
BobC, WaltJ, et al...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGTWmrnPdgk

Falls City Beer
07-30-2009, 08:15 PM
Can't add anyone, can't have a firesale (even if they wanted to). It's a great time to be a Reds' fan.

RedLegSuperStar
07-30-2009, 08:16 PM
Ken Broo reported that Bob Cast has told Walt J that he isnt allowed to take on anymore salaries, so I expect them to stand pat. Nobody wants Harang or Arroyo that bad.

So why come out two months ago and say their is payro flexability?

BRM
07-30-2009, 08:18 PM
Can't add anyone, can't have a firesale (even if they wanted to). It's a great time to be a Reds' fan.

More fence sitting. Can't commit fully either way.

WVRedsFan
07-30-2009, 08:46 PM
Over the last 7 games, your starters--the guys you would think would be performing--have gone 25-149 (.167) and have scored 14 runs (2 per game). Your starting staff has pitched only 35 innings in the same time period, giving up 45 hits and 23 runs for an ERA of 5.91.

Wouldn't you think that, if you were the Reds brass, you'd be trading people left and right, trying to not salvage this year, but ridding yourself of the chaff this team seems to be made of?

Blows my mind.

Falls City Beer
07-30-2009, 08:51 PM
Over the last 7 games, your starters--the guys you would think would be performing--have gone 25-149 (.167) and have scored 14 runs (2 per game). Your starting staff has pitched only 35 innings in the same time period, giving up 45 hits and 23 runs for an ERA of 5.91.

Wouldn't you think that, if you were the Reds brass, you'd be trading people left and right, trying to not salvage this year, but ridding yourself of the chaff this team seems to be made of?

Blows my mind.

They can't trade the guys that will give them some salary relief, unfortunately. That's not a defense of the FO, that's just a reality at this point. They should have been traded sooner.

GAC
07-30-2009, 09:24 PM
If I was an opposing organization's GM, I'd be less worried about the swine flu, and probably stay away from any player in this organization for fear of whatever the Reds have is contagious and I don't want to spread it throughout my organization.

Was driving to work the other night, listening to some Kinks. Came to the song "State of Confusion", and thought that it was such an appropriate description of this organization. They ought to play it over the speaker system at GABP during the games.

I then got this mental image of Bob amd Walt singing (with minor alterations)....

Woke up in a panic,
Like somebody fired a gun
I wish I could be dreaming,
But the nightmare's just begun.
There's Taveras in CF
Nix over in left
A rotation that's in shambles
And a manager that's simply deft.
I'm in a state (state)
Of confusion (whooooh).
I'm in a state (state)
Of confusion (whooooh).

Should feel happy, should feel glad.
I'm alive and it can't be bad,
But back on planet Earth they shatter the illusion,
because this organization is in a state of confusion.

Standing on an pedestal,
with the media in the room.
The trading deadline is coming fast,
we're filled with doom and gloom
I should've stayed at home,
I should have never come outside.
The second half has come,
And this team has started to slide.
I'm in a state (state)
State of confusion (whooooh).
It's a state (state)
Of confusion (whooooh).

Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat,
Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
Do I trade a pitcher? Do I stand fast?
My God I told the fans that this losing couldn't last.
I'm in a state (state)
State of confusion (whooooh).
It's a state (state)
Of confusion (whooooh).

GAC
07-30-2009, 09:32 PM
Can we get the "24" countdown clock for this thread?

Jack Bauer couldn't help this team. But I would condone him using "enhanced" interrogation techniques. ;)

Reds Fanatic
07-30-2009, 09:39 PM
From Jayson Stark: Weathers and Rhodes are among the pitchers the Dodgers have discussed.


After completing a deal Thursday for reliever George Sherrill, the Dodgers weren't finished trying to add to their bullpen, reports ESPN.com's Jayson Stark.

They would like to add one more set-up arm, preferably a righthander. Clubs that have spoken with them say they've expressed interest in Mark Lowe of Seattle, David Weathers of the Reds, Matt Capps of the Pirates, Reds lefthander Arthur Rhodes and former Dodger Jason Frasor, now with Toronto.

dsmith421
07-30-2009, 09:46 PM
So why come out two months ago and say their is payro flexability?

Because Cast is the Tri-State area's foremost producer of fertilizer? Which actually explains his fruit empire...

Ltlabner
07-30-2009, 09:56 PM
Cincinnati Reds: We put the no in innovation.

OnBaseMachine
07-30-2009, 09:58 PM
19 hours...

I think I'll go bowling tomorrow afternoon instead of staying home and getting disappointed by the Reds again. I'm usually glued to the computer/TV during the trade deadline but that probably won't happen this year.

RedLegSuperStar
07-30-2009, 10:13 PM
19 hours...

I think I'll go bowling tomorrow afternoon instead of staying home and getting disappointed by the Reds again. I'm usually glued to the computer/TV during the trade deadline but that probably won't happen this year.

Sounds..fun. Maybe you'll throw more strikes that don't end up in the GABP gutters beyond the wall in the power alleys

RED VAN HOT
07-30-2009, 10:25 PM
I think there is only a slight possibility that the Reds will trade for a major league player. If they do, it will be Rolen.

As for trading the big salaries, I see no possibility of anything coming back in return. I'd be overjoyed if another team just took a contract. I thought in April that if the season blew up, the Reds would be in good shape to unload the pitching contracts, since that is usually what is sought at this time of year. I underestimated the decline in salaries and the ability of the Pirates to flood the market with cheaper alternatives. The best outcome would be for the Reds to pick up some of the salary and get back a low level, long shot prospect in the deal.

Highlifeman21
07-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Cincinnati Reds: We put the no in innovation.

I thought that was shredded wheat?

Ltlabner
07-30-2009, 11:16 PM
I thought that was shredded wheat?

Sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh

Caveat Emperor
07-30-2009, 11:20 PM
They can't trade the guys that will give them some salary relief, unfortunately. That's not a defense of the FO, that's just a reality at this point. They should have been traded sooner.

Arroyo yes.

Harang? I don't think anyone could've looked at the numbers and predicted he'd fall off the cliff so badly. Most scout chatter you hear is that he's toxic and has been so since his relief effort last year -- so really, the market for him literally crumbled overnight.

Cordero should have value to someone, but I think he's still on a no-trade clause. I'd be working the phones heavily trying to get him to waive that.

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 02:40 AM
1 and 2 are relievers with track records and ERAs ≤ 3.00. Given the well documented interest in Bell, Sherril, Grabow, etc. there should be enough interest to bring back a good return.



I'm guessing Weathers might be a close comp to Bentacourt, although Bentancourt is only 34. IIRC, Bentacourt fetched a single A pitcher that was 23 or 24 years old.. long shot.

icehole3
07-31-2009, 07:48 AM
So why come out two months ago and say their is payro flexability?

they were probably thinking fans would fill the seats is my guess, Bob Cast probably looked at the spread sheets saw the lost revenue and there you have it, which is also my guess as to why he came out last week with the stupid comment about we're still in it fans keep your chins up. :thumbup:

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 07:59 AM
So why come out two months ago and say their is payro flexability?

There might still be flexibility, but maybe not enough to rectify the situation.

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 09:21 AM
Arroyo yes.

Harang? I don't think anyone could've looked at the numbers and predicted he'd fall off the cliff so badly. Most scout chatter you hear is that he's toxic and has been so since his relief effort last year -- so really, the market for him literally crumbled overnight.

Cordero should have value to someone, but I think he's still on a no-trade clause. I'd be working the phones heavily trying to get him to waive that.

I would wager that Cordero's contract is more prohibitive than his no trade clause.

bucksfan2
07-31-2009, 09:53 AM
I'm guessing Weathers might be a close comp to Bentacourt, although Bentancourt is only 34. IIRC, Bentacourt fetched a single A pitcher that was 23 or 24 years old.. long shot.

The best left handed reliever on the market fetched the Dodgers 8th best pitching prospect. Is it worth trading Rhodes for an average prospect when you have him cheap for next season?

In this buyers market you need two to tango, it seems as if the Reds are dancing by themselves right now.

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 11:17 AM
I'm tired of the excuses for Jocketty. I have a feeling the reactions would be different if Wayne Krivsky was still around and having as bad a year as Jocketty has had. I can already see it now, if he doesn't make any moves it will be Castellini's fault, not Walt's.

To be fair, Wayne got us into this mess. He's the one that to give the big longterm contracts that are immovable. (Harang, Arroyo, AGon, Cordero).. That's around 40 million dollars. We've got an owner that doesn't want to spend money.. No GM is going to operate well under these circumstances.
If we had money right now, EdE would prob be swapped for Rolen. I know that's a controversial trade, but at least it would be movement.

I can't remember what albotross deals Wayne inherited, if any. Maybe he had a year left on Milton, I'm not sure. I can't remember if Graves was still around either.

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 11:31 AM
There might still be flexibility, but maybe not enough to rectify the situation.


The payroll flexilbity probably evaporated as the W-L record went south.

I'm not happy with Cast/Walt right now, but if I was Cast, I really wouldn't want to add Rolen right now either. It would be different if we were in second place, 2 games back. Adding Rolen is not going to sell any more tickets now. There's no chance of playoff cash helping pay for Rolen either.

Now, I do think Cast needs to ante up a bit this offseason. I wouldn't mind adding Rolen, but if it caps us out from adding an more salary until the end of 2010, I'm not sure it's the greatest move.

redsfandan
07-31-2009, 11:38 AM
I can't remember what albotross deals Wayne inherited, if any. Maybe he had a year left on Milton, I'm not sure. I can't remember if Graves was still around either.
Jr??

Strikes Out Looking
07-31-2009, 11:42 AM
Bob Castellini's morphing is now complete and I will henceforth refer to him as Carl Linder Jr.

ochre
07-31-2009, 12:01 PM
Jr??
Griffey picked up that long term contract immediately after the Reds acquired him:

http://www.cincinnati.com/reds/roster/griffey.html
Contract: Signed an eight-year contract extension through 2008 with a club option for 2009, Feb. 10, 2000.

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 02:47 PM
The best left handed reliever on the market fetched the Dodgers 8th best pitching prospect. Is it worth trading Rhodes for an average prospect when you have him cheap for next season?
.

It depends on what an average prospect is. I trade Rhodes only if I get a player that has at least 50% shot of being a starting player or decent bullpen arm.

I don't trade him for a Keppinger type guy who's upside is a bench player.

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 02:57 PM
Jr??

I don't think Jr was that bad. Although I guess it's debatable.

Jr was able to be traded by Walt pretty quickly.

IIRC, the Jr trade to the White Sox was squashed by Carl, proving Jr was tradable even back then (when was that 2005?). So, yes, when Carl was around, Wayne was stuck with Jr, but it seems like Cast was willing to let Wayne trade Jr. It also seems that Jr was movable.

I really question whether Harang, Arroyo, Codero, and AGon are movable.
Phillips would be difficult to trade too (at least as difficult as Jr).

So that's 5 contracts that are at least as difficult as Jr to move, plus he got stuck with Freel.

HokieRed
07-31-2009, 02:57 PM
Graves had been DFA'd by O'Brien, IIRC.

redsfandan
07-31-2009, 03:31 PM
Griffey picked up that long term contract immediately after the Reds acquired him:
Yes, I'm aware of when that happened. And that was an albatross of a contract that Wayne inherited. Which is what REDREAD was talking about. Not one that Wayne gave out. Eight years for an outfielder on the wrong side of 30. Brilliant.

ochre
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
Yes, I'm aware of when that happened. And that was an albatross of a contract that Wayne inherited. Which is what REDREAD was talking about. Not one that Wayne gave out. Eight years for an outfielder on the wrong side of 30. Brilliant.
No worries. I think I actually accidentally merged your post in my head with another one and thought, as I was posting, that you meant inherited from O'Brien. My bad.

OnBaseMachine
08-01-2009, 03:12 PM
19 hours...

I think I'll go bowling tomorrow afternoon instead of staying home and getting disappointed by the Reds again. I'm usually glued to the computer/TV during the trade deadline but that probably won't happen this year.

Well, this worked out good for me yesterday because I ended up bowling the best game of my life - a 279! I missed a perfect game by one friggin' pin. :)

TheNext44
08-01-2009, 03:18 PM
Well, this worked out good for me yesterday because I ended up bowling the best game of my life - a 279! I missed a perfect game by one friggin' pin. :)

Congrats! That's awesome, and a bit frustrating at the same time. :beerme:

Although the way I bowl, a perfect game is no gutter balls. :D

Degenerate39
08-01-2009, 03:24 PM
Graves had been DFA'd by O'Brien, IIRC.

After he gave a fan the finger I believe

Matt700wlw
08-01-2009, 03:29 PM
Well, this worked out good for me yesterday because I ended up bowling the best game of my life - a 279! I missed a perfect game by one friggin' pin. :)

Nice job!

I bowl best when I'm beer BUZZED (not drunk) and I doubt I could sniff that....but I would at least have the confidence :)

Matt700wlw
08-01-2009, 03:30 PM
Congrats! That's awesome, and a bit frustrating at the same time. :beerme:

Although the way I bowl, a perfect game is no gutter balls. :D

Bumpers!!