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flyer85
07-31-2009, 04:39 PM
SI_JonHeyman

rolen has been traded to the reds. he just has to waive his no trade clause. indy boy cant turn down cincy, can he?

LvJ
07-31-2009, 04:39 PM
yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jpup
07-31-2009, 04:40 PM
I hope Edwin isn't a part of it. We'll see. I'm not against Rolen if the deal is right.

nate
07-31-2009, 04:40 PM
It looks like it's happening. Heyman talking about it on the MLB network now.

BRM
07-31-2009, 04:40 PM
He now says Rolen has waived his no trade.

flyer85
07-31-2009, 04:40 PM
yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!World Series here the Reds come.

Kneel before Walt :notworthy

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:40 PM
I kind of hope Edwin is a part of it. He's a bit low-energy for my taste.

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:40 PM
Please no Edwin...

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Please no Alonso or Bailey. Please.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Please no Alonso or Bailey. Please.

I doubt it.

Raisor
07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Would have been great to have him ten years ago.

redsfandan
07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Wow, now what did we have to give up?

dougdirt
07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
I am happy and scared at the same time

cincrazy
07-31-2009, 04:41 PM
Please no Alonso or Bailey. Please.

I'll go to tonight's game and light myself on fire in the middle of the field if that's what we gave up for Rolen.

Ok, that's a bit of a stretch.

But not much of one.

CarolinaRedleg
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
Gut reaction before we know everything....nice.

I'll reserve further judgment after we get the details.

vaticanplum
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
Wo-ot!

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
I am happy and scared at the same time

Exactly. I'm so mixed right now.

Raisor
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
With the JHj deal, the dream left side of the field is gone.

*sigh*

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
We need to find out what we gave up.

nate
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
I think I like it.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
Would have been great to have him ten years ago.

I hear ya, but it's just for next year. So it's not a serious commitment, and well, the young pitching are going to need all the defensive help they can get.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
I like Rolen a lot, but I don't think we're going to win this year regardless with him. Hopefully we didn't pay too high a price.

backbencher
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
I kind of hope Edwin is a part of it.

I agree. With Rolen, what use do the Reds have for EdE's salary or roster spot?

flyer85
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
He'll probably throw his back out hauling his luggage and never suit up.

Stormy
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
I kind of hope Edwin is a part of it. He's a bit low-energy for my taste.

If Rolen is headed here, there's no place for EdE anyway in the long-term, so he might as well be the principle in the deal. Rolen's still a professional at 3B, but it smacks of the fact that Walt is such a backward looking GM, with precious little innovation. Now let's see the return.

Az Red
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Maybe the player from the Yankees tipped the scales. Wait and see for me as well....

Cyclone792
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Need to know the return ... and this darn well better be only one of a series of significant moves between now and Opening Day 2010, otherwise it's a wasted move.

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Reynolds made it sound like EE wasn't part of the deal.

thatcoolguy_22
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
either a dramatic overpay or uhhh... I have no faith in WJ

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 04:43 PM
With the Reds injury history this year, over under on when his back explodes?

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 04:44 PM
Why this deal happens now instead of 5 months from now is beyond me.

Raisor
07-31-2009, 04:44 PM
Meanwhile John Daly shoots a ten on the first hole at the Buick Open.


He could play LF for the Reds though.

flyer85
07-31-2009, 04:44 PM
There is no need for EE if Rolen is around.

BRM
07-31-2009, 04:44 PM
Now Heyman has changed the post to say Rolen needs to waive his no trade. Not a done deal yet.

osuceltic
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
Not knowing yet what we gave up, I have to say I'm thrilled to think about someone who can actually play the position manning third base. Thrilled. Our pitching staff just improved.

That's one 2010 hole filled. Now SS and LF/CF.

*BaseClogger*
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
http://theindecisivepinay.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/pull-out-hair.jpg

HokieRed
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
Why this deal happens now instead of 5 months from now is beyond me.

B/c Toronto wants to save money?

BRM
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
There is no need for EE if Rolen is around.

LF?

redsfandan
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
Reynolds made it sound like EE wasn't part of the deal.
What??

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
Now Heyman has changed the post to say Rolen needs to waive his no trade. Not a done deal yet.

This is a pretty vital consideration. When it was first posted, I actually thought: it's pretty likely he won't waive it.

flyer85
07-31-2009, 04:45 PM
seeing as "the Pimp" has done nothing ...maybe he found his sucker

LvJ
07-31-2009, 04:46 PM
Edwin to LF please.

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:46 PM
LF?
Might as well. The rest of this year is down the crapper anyway, see if he can play LF, and if not trade him in the offseason.

Raisor
07-31-2009, 04:46 PM
Rolen probably wants another five years added to his deal to approve move to Reds.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:46 PM
Not knowing yet what we gave up, I have to say I'm thrilled to think about someone who can actually play the position manning third base. Thrilled. Our pitching staff just improved.

That's one 2010 hole filled. Now SS and LF/CF.

Ehem: RF too.

flyer85
07-31-2009, 04:46 PM
LF?I don't think he will ever hit enough to be even average in LF

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:46 PM
What??
Yeah, he said something to the effect of this makes Encarnacion trade bait now.

osuceltic
07-31-2009, 04:47 PM
Maybe the player from the Yankees tipped the scales. Wait and see for me as well....

My guess is they dumped JHJ for nothing to clear $$ for the Rolen trade.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:47 PM
seeing as "the Pimp" has done nothing ...maybe he found his sucker

He's been on the wrong end of most deals, Ricciardi. Can't imagine him gaining a haul in a payroll-cutting move.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 04:47 PM
Hmmm, not sure why Rolen wouldn't waive his no trade when the Jays clearly want to dump him. Somebody trades for me says "hey, thumbody loves me."

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:48 PM
Hmmm, not sure why Rolen wouldn't waive his no trade when the Jays clearly want to dump him.

Ever been to Toronto? Great place.

redsfan4445
07-31-2009, 04:49 PM
i dont want Edwin in LF.. he throws side arm, you cant throw from the outfield sidearm!! His errors will be as bad as they were at 3rd!!

osuceltic
07-31-2009, 04:49 PM
Ehem: RF too.

You have to give Bruce a chance. I understand where you're coming from, but you have to give Bruce at least one more full season. I don't like it, but the Reds are in no position to give up on a guy like Bruce that soon.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 04:49 PM
If this is true, I can't see Rolen turning down Walt. I just can't imagine it.

George Grande is going to be excited.

SirFelixCat
07-31-2009, 04:50 PM
I think I like it.

All depends on what we gave up.... :scared:

HokieRed
07-31-2009, 04:50 PM
You have to give Bruce a chance. I understand where you're coming from, but you have to give Bruce at least one more full season. I don't like it, but the Reds are in no position to give up on a guy like Bruce that soon.

I agree but FCB is right, too, to keep insisting that only performance matters. Period.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 04:50 PM
i dont want Edwin in LF.. he throws side arm, you cant throw from the outfield sidearm!! His errors will be as bad as they were at 3rd!!not a whole lot of throws for LFers. It is where you take D as a bonus from that position, but bat comes first.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:51 PM
You have to give Bruce a chance. I understand where you're coming from, but you have to give Bruce at least one more full season. I don't like it, but the Reds are in no position to give up on a guy like Bruce that soon.

He looked like Brandon Larson from about May 15th on. He was promoted way too soon. But you're right, they're stuck for another year.

redsfan4445
07-31-2009, 04:52 PM
not a whole lot of throws for LFers. It is where you take D as a bonus from that position, but bat comes first.

Ummm didnt we have a huge bat in LF the past seasons in Dunn and he was criticized about his defense? am i missing something here?

osuceltic
07-31-2009, 04:52 PM
I agree but FCB is right, too, to keep insisting that only performance matters. Period.

Absolutely. We have the minor leagues for development.

Johnny Footstool
07-31-2009, 04:52 PM
Ever been to Toronto? Great place.

Unless you're paying taxes.

osuceltic
07-31-2009, 04:53 PM
not a whole lot of throws for LFers. It is where you take D as a bonus from that position, but bat comes first.

Even if that's the case, he still shouldn't be out there.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 04:54 PM
He looked like Brandon Larson from about May 15th on. He was promoted way too soon. But you're right, they're stuck for another year.Not even close. Bruce will be fine.

Raisor
07-31-2009, 04:54 PM
I don't think he will ever hit enough to be even average in LF

OPS for NL LFers
2009-776
2008-802
2007-834
2006-837


Edwin Career: 793.

There's not a big difference.

SirFelixCat
07-31-2009, 04:54 PM
MLB Network reporting (scroller) it's a done deal...no word on return.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 04:56 PM
I wonder if Bob and Walt were looking out at GAB and wondering, like I was this week, what August attendance was going to look like with that team?

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 04:56 PM
Not even close. Bruce will be fine.

He was absolutely as bad as Larson the last two months.

He might be good, he might not. That's all we can say at this point.

CarolinaRedleg
07-31-2009, 04:57 PM
George Grande is going to be excited.

You're not kidding. Might be something of a welcome change to hear George gush over a Reds player.

Kc61
07-31-2009, 04:57 PM
The Reds undoubtedly traded a major prospect in this deal. That's life, people.

Stormy
07-31-2009, 04:57 PM
Not even close. Bruce will be fine.

I'm not a Bruce proponent at all, and yet I agree that he'll likely develop just fine. I just doubt that he'll ever establish the plate approach and presence necessary to get anywhere close to the Larry Walker comparisons. I still think we'll see a .275/.350/525+ exceptional defensive RF out of him in the relatively near future.

puca
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
I am happy and scared at the same time

Excited yet VERY scared.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
The Reds undoubtedly traded a major prospect in this deal. That's life, people.

They don't have, but about 3 or 4 guys that it would matter if they traded. Don't be fooled.

rotnoid
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
Fox now says it's for EE and a minor leauger pending Rolen's approval.

IowaRed
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
This is scary stuff for a team that I consider to be a long way from contending. Rolen is 34 and has missed a lot of games in the last few years due to injury. I hope the Reds aren't mortgaging too much of the future for him

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
EE and a minor leaguer to Toronto.

Bad.

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 04:58 PM
Baring any other moves, and assuming the JHJ haul isn't going to be valuable MLB stuff this is shaping up to the the completely useless move I envisioned.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
I'll wait to see what we gave up, but mark me down as not supporting this move.

Pretty pointless trade to make. As someone already mentioned, this could have been done in the off-season as well (even though I'd still think it was stupid).

Stormy
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
OPS for NL LFers
2009-776
2008-802
2007-834
2006-837


Edwin Career: 793.

There's not a big difference.

True. But with our current production holes at CF, SS, RF, 3B?... we need a well above average producer in LF, in my opinion.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
He was absolutely as bad as Larson the last two months.

He might be good, he might not. That's all we can say at this point.why not say he was as bad as Wily Taveras? Why compare him to a well-publicized bust who had less career homers than Bruce has this season already? Brandon Larson is just not a fair comp at this stage.

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
WOW THE MINOR LEAGUER WAS ALONSO.

Wow.

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
nm

HokieRed
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
I wonder if Bob and Walt were looking out at GAB and wondering, like I was this week, what August attendance was going to look like with that team?

Or one might put it in terms of old-fashioned ideas of value--i.e. that if you're going to sell a major league product, you ought to do what you can to offer that now. No more playing a guy at 3b who can't play the position, no matter how much somebody hopes he'll someday be able to.

PuffyPig
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
They don't have, but about 3 or 4 guys that it would matter if they traded. Don't be fooled.

Who said it can't be one of those 3 or 4? That's the problem.

reds44
07-31-2009, 04:59 PM
the deal awaits only rolen's approval, which he is expected to give; he has a full no-trade clause. In return, the jays will acquire third baseman edwin encarnacion and 2008 first-round pick yonder alonso, an infielder
wow
wow
wow
wow

dougdirt
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Reportedly EE AND ALONSO.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Oh man, to be a Reds fan. :(

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
I'm done.

Kc61
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
They don't have, but about 3 or 4 guys that it would matter if they traded. Don't be fooled.


If it's Alonso, Stewart or Frazier I'm unhappy.

Anyone else, I'm happy.

I assume it's not one of the very young.

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
But Alonso has to be a PTBNL, correct? So maybe the info is inaccurate?

CTA513
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Reportedly EE AND ALONSO.

:bowrofl:

Buckeye33
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Board meltdown in under 3 minutes ..

Go!

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
OMG.

Done being a Reds fan.

redsfan4445
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
why the heck didnt they get another big prospect if they included Alonso??????????????????

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Who said it can't be one of those 3 or 4? That's the problem.

It looks like it is. :thumbdown

SirFelixCat
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
Are you algfihdaglrdgn kidding me?!?

LvJ
07-31-2009, 05:00 PM
oh my god

IowaRed
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
this is disappointing but not surprising

LvJ
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
yeah im out.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
That has to be a joke.

Right?

11larkin11
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
If this is true, this is the worst trade since the Robinson trade. Book it.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
There's no way that can be true.

rotnoid
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
I think it's best for my blood pressure if I stop reading now.

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 05:01 PM
There's no way that can be true.

You have to think this is false. That trade makes zero sense.

LvJ
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
I live in Nashville. Minus whale become a Brewers fan.

Reds Fanatic
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
I hate it. Trading a top prospect for a 34 year old 3b. Ugh.

Stormy
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
Reportedly EE AND ALONSO.

Well, then we better be tossing in a few other prospects and Halladay better be en route too.

nate
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
I think I don't like this.

SirFelixCat
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
Isn't Alonso on the DL? ie. can't be traded?

marcshoe
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
Alonso who?

I mean, I know it can't be Yonder; that wouldn't make any sense.

cincrazy
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
I'm going to go play in traffic before I go to work.

dunner13
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
theres also rumors that austin jackson is who we got for jhj, we know theres no way thats true so I would hold on for more info before melting down about alonso, it may not be accurate.

I(heart)Freel
07-31-2009, 05:02 PM
No way. That's just a Toronto blogger's wishful thinking.

Stormy
07-31-2009, 05:03 PM
I didn't think we could even name Alonso in a trade, yet. Hoping this is extremely false, or not the complete deal.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:03 PM
No way. That's just a Toronto blogger's wishful thinking.
It was on foxsports.com

vaticanplum
07-31-2009, 05:03 PM
Whaaaa....???

Joseph
07-31-2009, 05:03 PM
Oh how foolish.

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:03 PM
That can't be right...the kid's injured and hasn't been under contract all that long.

alexad
07-31-2009, 05:04 PM
Alonso can not be traded, he has not been with the System for a year. HE can be a PTBNL, but not actually named.

SirFelixCat
07-31-2009, 05:04 PM
Isn't Alonso on the DL? ie. can't be traded?

Anyone?!?

redsmetz
07-31-2009, 05:04 PM
That can't be right...the kid's injured and hasn't been under contract all that long.

I have to agree. He'd have to a PTBNL and there are some rules about being trade while on the DL. And that's an incredible unbalanced trade for Rolen. I would be shocked if this is true.

*BaseClogger*
07-31-2009, 05:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvEIffY3rNQ

nate
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
Yeah, I think Alonso would have to be a PTBNL because he hasn't been signed for a year.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
I think Alonso would not be referred to as "a minor leaguer" and he has not been under contract for a year, so he would have to be referred to as a PTBNL. Hopefully.

icehole3
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
if it's Alonso Im done as well

Kc61
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
It's a big haul for the Jays. But if the Reds sign a good righty power hitting left fielder in free agency, it works for them.

It cements Votto. It gives them a top notch third baseman for a couple of years.

But it leaves a void that requires a free agent for left field.

Stormy
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
I have to agree. He'd have to a PTBNL and there are some rules about being trade while on the DL. And that's an incredible unbalanced trade for Rolen. I would be shocked if this is true.

Agreed.

*BaseClogger*
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
AHHHHHHHHH

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 05:05 PM
Yeah, I think Alonso would have to be a PTBNL because he hasn't been signed for a year.

He would have to be PTBNL. But they could still have a handshake/whisper confirmation on something like this.

dunner13
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
from espn chat
Nick (LA)


BTF says EE and Yonder Alonso for Rolen. My mind has been blown.

Rob Neyer (4:04 PM)


Alonso's struggled in Double-A this summer ... but isn't it a bit early to give up on him? Even with Joey Votto entrenched with the big club?

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
ource: Reds get Rolen from Jays Updated 3:49 p.m.

Toronto third baseman Scott Rolen has been traded to the Reds, one major-league source told FOXSports.com.

The deal awaits only Rolen's approval, which he is expected to give; he has a full no-trade clause. In return, the Jays will acquire third baseman Edwin Encarnacion and 2008 first-round pick Yonder Alonso, an infielder.

Rolen won a World Series while playing for current Reds general manager Walt Jocketty in St. Louis. Cincinnati officials have been looking for a right-handed hitter such as Rolen for much of the season.

Rolen is having his best year since 2006, batting .320 with eight home runs and 43 RBIs.

Acquiring Rolen gives the Reds a head start on planning for 2010, since he is already under contract for next year at $11 million. The Mariners took the same approach earlier this week, when they acquired shortstop Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh.

I think it's Bologna (the Alonso part).

thatcoolguy_22
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
WTF?!?! Horrible trade if its true.

I'll say it and take my 6 month ban from the board....



****!


Sorry I will only read now.


I was censored. You know what I yelled though. ridiculous

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
If it's Alonso I may jump off the bandwagon.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
If this is true, I want EVERYONE associated with this organization fired.

I will not spend another dollar or attend another game until that happens.

redsmetz
07-31-2009, 05:06 PM
That can't be right...the kid's injured and hasn't been under contract all that long.

According to Wikipedia, a player on the DL cannot be traded without approval from the comissioner. Oh joy!

*BaseClogger*
07-31-2009, 05:07 PM
http://pragmaticideas.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/teensuicide.jpg

redsfandan
07-31-2009, 05:07 PM
I think I need a beer.

*BaseClogger*
07-31-2009, 05:08 PM
According to Wikipedia, a player on the DL cannot be traded without approval from the comissioner. Oh joy!

Bowie Kuhn's revenge!

Cyclone792
07-31-2009, 05:08 PM
Walt Jocketty (grabs note and tries to read it): See you soon id, idi ...
Cyclone (grabs note from Jocketty): Idiots!
Jocketty: Huh?
Cyclone: It's for you ...

nate
07-31-2009, 05:08 PM
According to Wikipedia, a player on the DL cannot be traded without approval from the comissioner. Oh joy!

But does that apply to the minor league DL?

There was a post here a couple days ago about it.

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 05:08 PM
According to Wikipedia, a player on the DL cannot be traded without approval from the comissioner. Oh joy!

Does that include minor league DL?

guttle11
07-31-2009, 05:09 PM
I AM SO ANGRY!!!

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:09 PM
Walt Jocketty (grabs note and tries to read it): See you soon id, idi ...
Cyclone (grabs note from Jocketty): Idiots!
Jocketty: Huh?
Cyclone: It's for you ...

Simply awesome and appropriate "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" reference.

HokieRed
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
Sundeck reporting a Reds source saying it's not Alonso.

redsfan4445
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
i cant check this at work.. but its posted on comments on the rolen trade

Ed Price says the Alonso part is incorrect.

http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/3057155032

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
IF true...

I understand turning potential talent into actual production, but wowzies.

Kc61
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
from espn chat
Nick (LA)


BTF says EE and Yonder Alonso for Rolen. My mind has been blown.

Rob Neyer (4:04 PM)


Alonso's struggled in Double-A this summer ... but isn't it a bit early to give up on him? Even with Joey Votto entrenched with the big club?

Here's the contrary argument.

Rolen is only 34. He has several good years left. He is a huge upgrade at third, defensively and offensively.

EE isn't worth too much. He could even be considered a liability given his own contract. The Jays may be less than excited to get him.

Alonso is a good prospect but he plays Votto's position. His potential spot is filled on the roster with a free agent who plays the outfield and hits. Votto to LF was always a pipe dream.

It does seem like a lot to give up. But sometimes you have to overpay rather than stay in neutral.

I'm not thrilled at all, but can understand the deal and at least it should make the Reds better for next year.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
This is impossible.

EE for Rolen, straight up, is debatable.

But Alonso?

This might be one of the worst (non hindsight) trade fleecings ever.

Redsfaithful
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
The Reds are so stupid sometimes it genuinely hurts. Scott Rolen is having a fluke of a season, will more than likely be the player he was in 2007 and 2008, and on top of giving up EdE they give up Alonso?

It's hard to care anymore, this might be the final straw for me.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:10 PM
i cant check this at work.. but its posted on comments on the rolen trade

Ed Price says the Alonso part is incorrect.

http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/3057155032

#Reds source says reports of Encarnacion plus Alonso for Rolen are not accurate. We'll see...

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:11 PM
#Reds source says reports of Encarnacion plus Alonso for Rolen are not accurate. We'll see...
Oh thank God

I(heart)Freel
07-31-2009, 05:11 PM
A) It's not Alonso.

B) If it were, the BJ's would be sending like ALL of Rolen's salary for this and next year along with it.

C) But it's not Alonso.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 05:11 PM
Here's the contrary argument.

Rolen is only 34. He has several good years left. He is a huge upgrade at third, defensively and offensively.

EE isn't worth too much. He could even be considered a liability given his own contract. The Jays may be less than excited to get him.

Alonso is a good prospect but he plays Votto's position. His potential spot is filled on the roster with a free agent who plays the outfield and hits. Votto to LF was always a pipe dream.

It does seem like a lot to give up. But sometimes you have to overpay rather than stay in neutral.

I'm not thrilled at all, but can understand the deal and at least it should make the Reds better for next year.

Are you seriously trying to justify this stupidity?

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:11 PM
The Reds are so stupid sometimes it genuinely hurts. Scott Rolen is having a fluke of a season, will more than likely be the player he was in 2007 and 2008, and on top of giving up EdE they give up Alonso?

Damn...I've heard this story somewhere before....

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:12 PM
ok, no one committing Harry Carey (you go "a one, a two, a three" before shoving the sword through) or kicking the dog. The Alonso reference is pure speculation at this point.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-31-2009, 05:12 PM
All I can say is, if Alonso is involved, I may be looking for another ____zone site to post on

*BaseClogger*
07-31-2009, 05:12 PM
Rolen is only 34. He has several good years left. He is a huge upgrade at third, defensively and offensively.

That's simply inaccurate...

cincrazy
07-31-2009, 05:12 PM
Here's the contrary argument.

Rolen is only 34. He has several good years left. He is a huge upgrade at third, defensively and offensively.

EE isn't worth too much. He could even be considered a liability given his own contract. The Jays may be less than excited to get him.

Alonso is a good prospect but he plays Votto's position. His potential spot is filled on the roster with a free agent who plays the outfield and hits. Votto to LF was always a pipe dream.

It does seem like a lot to give up. But sometimes you have to overpay rather than stay in neutral.

I'm not thrilled at all, but can understand the deal and at least it should make the Reds better for next year.


I can't understand it at all, if it's true. You give up top prospects for a Matt Holliday, perhaps (even that's debatable). You DO NOT give them up for 34 year old 3B unlikely to stay healthy.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:13 PM
I can't understand it at all, if it's true. You give up top prospects for a Matt Holliday, perhaps (even that's debatable). You DO NOT give them up for 34 year old 3B unlikely to stay healthy.

No way the Reds are that stupid, are they?

Cyclone792
07-31-2009, 05:13 PM
#Reds source says reports of Encarnacion plus Alonso for Rolen are not accurate. We'll see...

You know, Twitter's a cool concept and all, but it sure would be nice if the blowhards using it to report trade information would actually get accurate information and verify said information before posting stuff ...

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
I think I'm going to start an internet support group, one session clearly on handling real-time information.

I(heart)Freel
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
Assuming it's not Alonso... because who is going to stay on a Reds fan site if that happens... who might the minor leaguer actually be?

Kc61
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
Are you seriously trying to justify this stupidity?

No. I was giving the contrary argument. I said that I'm not thrilled with the EE/Alonso combo -- if that's it.

Boy, you really have to careful around here.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
You know, Twitter's a cool concept and all, but it sure would be nice if the blowhards using it to report trade information would actually get accurate information and verify said information before posting stuff ...
JESUS lol

thatcoolguy_22
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH

If this is true I promise I will not watch another game for the rest of the year. I might become a royals fan. Who knows. At least when Grienke pitches its interesting.

Kc61
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
Assuming it's not Alonso... because who is going to stay on a Reds fan site if that happens... who might the minor leaguer actually be?


My guess is Stubbs or Heisey.

nate
07-31-2009, 05:14 PM
You know, Twitter's a cool concept and all, but it sure would be nice if the blowhards using it to report trade information would actually get accurate information and verify said information before posting stuff ...

Right on. I just wasted several perfectly good expletives on faulty information!

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:15 PM
You know, Twitter's a cool concept and all, but it sure would be nice if the blowhards using it to report trade information would actually get accurate information and verify said information before posting stuff ...Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Twitter? "Hey, guys, I gotta take a crap....oops wait, nope it went back up."

Az Red
07-31-2009, 05:15 PM
A bunch of soon to loose their job reporters trying to scoop the next guy. Wait until the official team release.

cincrazy
07-31-2009, 05:15 PM
You know, Twitter's a cool concept and all, but it sure would be nice if the blowhards using it to report trade information would actually get accurate information and verify said information before posting stuff ...

Amen brother. That was my next post, what a sham reporting has become this day and age. Yay for the death of newspapers! HOO RAY TWITTER AND ALL THE REST! :(.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:15 PM
Assuming it's not Alonso... because who is going to stay on a Reds fan site if that happens... who might the minor leaguer actually be?Wily Mo Pena

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
My guess is Stubbs or Heisey.

I'm going to say someone of minimal consequence, unless Toronto is picking up a lot of money.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't give up EE and Stubbs/Heisey for Rolen either.

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
My guess is Stubbs or Heisey.

Still too much.

UKFlounder
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
Oh the joy of following "news" and associated rumors as it happens. What an interesting thread - I wonder how this will all end up, but it sure is kind of fun (unless the Alonso reports are true...)

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
I hope it's not Alonzo either, but isn't this a bit of overreacting?

I don't think a AA 1b holds the fate of the entire Reds' future in his hands.

Wow, talk about overreacting.. I agree it Alonso could come back to haunt us if he's sent to the Jays, but after living through Milton, etc this is small potatoes.

redsmetz
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
And after nothing from the Reds Twitter feed, now they post this:

Brandon Phillips poses for a photo with fans at the Hoxworth Blood Drive at GABP on Friday.

There's something ironic about some blood sucking going on though...

vaticanplum
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
Still too much.

Agreed.

Redsfaithful
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
Rolen is only 34. He has several good years left. He is a huge upgrade at third, defensively and offensively.

No, he's not. The steroid era is over, guys at 34 and 35 are regressing now pretty hard. Not even mentioning the Reds aren't really going to have Scott Rolen playing third next year full time, they're going to have Scott Rolen for 450 at bats and then some other scrub for the rest. If they're lucky, that's just assuming he misses his average amount of time that he's missed the past few years and not more, which is a big assumption with a guy in his mid 30s with a bad back.

dunner13
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
keith law says alsono is not in the trade

Reds Fanatic
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
Our entire front office should be drug tested for agreeing to this trade.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:16 PM
EE, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart for Rolen

GAC
07-31-2009, 05:17 PM
I've had more fun reading through this thread over the last 10 minutes then I have all year! I don't care if no deal is made or not!

:D

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:17 PM
And after nothing from the Reds Twitter feed, now they post this:

Brandon Phillips poses for a photo with fans at the Hoxworth Blood Drive at GABP on Friday.

There's something ironic about some blood sucking going on though...

:lol:

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:17 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3ae7b795db-967a-451a-abd6-543fb2c73bf9&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com



The Reds are sending Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart to Toronto for Scott Rolen.

That's a high price to pay.

In exchange for Jerry Hairston Jr., the Reds are getting catcher Chase Weems. He was drafted in the sixth round in 2007.

BearcatShane
07-31-2009, 05:17 PM
I'd rather give up Stubbs than Alonso, not that I would want to give up Stubbs.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
No. I was giving the contrary argument. I said that I'm not thrilled with the EE/Alonso combo -- if that's it.

Boy, you really have to careful around here.

Ok. Cool. But the contrary argument still wasn't a good one.

LvJ
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
Edwin, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
EE, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart for Rolen

serious? Wow, Roenicke seemed to be a nice penner.

cincrazy
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
I hope it's not Alonzo either, but isn't this a bit of overreacting?

I don't think a AA 1b holds the fate of the entire Reds' future in his hands.

Wow, talk about overreacting.. I agree it Alonso could come back to haunt us if he's sent to the Jays, but after living through Milton, etc this is small potatoes.

When you're a small market team like the Reds, you value prospects like they're the diamond that Rose threw into the ocean at the end of the movie Titanic.

The report is now looking false, but if it were true, it'd be horrendously stupid.

RedEye
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
Ack! Now we're giving up Stewart? What the heck?

westofyou
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
I've had more fun reading through this thread over the last 10 minutes then I have all year! I don't care if no deal is made or not!

:D

Wait.. you mean you ain't done being a Redz fan Gac?

I can't quit you either Mr. Redlegs

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
EE, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart for Rolen

I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm alright with that deal. Just don't want to give up Alonso.

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
Edwin, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart

Still too much.

Redsfaithful
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
EE, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart for Rolen

lol this is almost as bad as Alonso.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I still hate this trade.

flyer85
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I hope Walt got a jar of vaseline in the deal

RedEye
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I would have been okay with EE and Roenicke... maybe. But Stewart, too? It's not like Rolen is on the upside of his career... I still think this is a stupid move.

icehole3
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
scared the total _uck out of me, I officially hate the trade dealine

nate
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
So, with that haul, the Jays have to be picking up some of Rolen's salary, right?

Right?

guttle11
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I'm slightly less angry!!!!

Stormy
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
No, he's not. The steroid era is over, guys at 34 and 35 are regressing now pretty hard. Not even mentioning the Reds aren't really going to have Scott Rolen playing third next year full time, they're going to have Scott Rolen for 450 at bats and then some other scrub for the rest. If they're lucky, that's just assuming he misses his average amount of time that he's missed the past few years and not more, which is a big assumption with a guy in his mid 30s with a bad back.

Agreed. It's a vapid move to stat with, so at the very least let's hope we traded very little of future relevance for him. I don't believe Alonso for a moment, unless it's a greatly expanded deal from the Jays side. Walt's not moving his top draft pick in this scenario, IMO.

Cyclone792
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
Right on. I just wasted several perfectly good expletives on faulty information!

You and me both. I mean, I wasted what Ltlabner stated was a perfectly placed and appropriate "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" reference if this doesn't come to fruition. For the sake of my reference, I hope the Alonso part is true!*

* just kidding ;)

cincrazy
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I'm still kind of bullish on this deal. But I've at least talked myself off the cliff I was about to jump off of.

durl
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I'm OK with this deal.

I believe the FO lost faith in EE becoming the consistent player they needed. Rolen is a temporary fix until a younger player is ready, to be sure, but I'm fine with taking a shot on the guy.

marcshoe
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
EE, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart for Rolen


Don't you feel better about this than you would if the Alonso rumor hadn't been floated first? ;)

kaldaniels
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
Player for player wise, I love this deal. I hope the economics don't hinder the club.

wheels
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
They got friggin' hosed in this deal.

Stewart?

They must really think Rolen is still what he was seven years ago.

Dummies.

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
I've seen enough of Walt Jocketty.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
So, with that haul, the Jays have to be picking up some of Rolen's salary, right?

Right?

They better be paying all of it.

Reds4Life
07-31-2009, 05:19 PM
That's a lot to give up. I'm conflicted on this deal.

IslandRed
07-31-2009, 05:20 PM
Stewart's the guy I mind losing out of that crew. That was probably the price of evening out the salaries, but we'll have to see.

dougdirt
07-31-2009, 05:20 PM
Zach Stewart will win a Cy Young for Toronto. Bank on it. Seriously.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
Edwin, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart

Nearly just as bad.

How effing idiotic this organizations is.

My God.

icehole3
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
Im done

Stormy
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3ae7b795db-967a-451a-abd6-543fb2c73bf9&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Wow, that's downright pathetic. Frankly, they should be sending us prospects to take this injury riddled has been off their hands. What a haul.

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
So, with that haul, the Jays have to be picking up some of Rolen's salary, right?

Right?

I think they would have to be.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
According to what I've read, Stewart was highly thought of. But, I wonder if there was more to his move to the bullpen in Louisville than just innings reduction?

Homer Bailey
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
In 8 years people will be writing articles about how bad of a trade this was when Zach Stewart dominates the AL.

dsmith421
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
Is it really that necessary to do this deal to include a second pitcher? Really? We need Scott Rolen that bad?

kaldaniels
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
Zach Stewart will win a Cy Young for Toronto. Bank on it. Seriously.

I wish Redszone had a sub-forum where members could bet each other real dollars.

Stormy
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
I hope Walt got a jar of vaseline in the deal

And a kiss first.

flyer85
07-31-2009, 05:21 PM
Wow, that's downright pathetic. Frankly, they should be sending us prospects to take this injury riddled has been off their hands. What a haul.35 year old with back and shoulder problems ... woot

GAC
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
The only reason this trade was made - if true - is not only because of Jocketty's infatuation with Rolen, but because Jocketty actually believes this team has a chance in the second half. Geez!

EE's owed 1M for the remainder of 09, while Rolen is due 5.8M.

SirFelixCat
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
I'm alright with that deal. Just don't want to give up Alonso.

EdE...fine, I can deal w/ that.

Roenicke...ok, he's a BP arm...livable.

WTF on Stewart? Have you seen his numbers from this year? I just don't get this. COME ON!

BearcatShane
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
Well we complained that Walt was doing nothing. Merry Christmas.

traderumor
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
Im doneGAC, you wanna counsel this guy? ;)

lollipopcurve
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
I'm surprised they're dealing Roenicke and Stewart. Steep price to pay, especially if the Reds are paying Rolen in full.

dunner13
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
i know everyone loves stewart but in the top 100 prospects in baseball hes ranked where???? I mean hes a nice pitching prospect but you do have to give up something to get an all start GG thirdbasemen.

REDREAD
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
When you're a small market team like the Reds, you value prospects like they're the diamond that Rose threw into the ocean at the end of the movie Titanic.

The report is now looking false, but if it were true, it'd be horrendously stupid.

Walt has been sent through the ringer for the past week for not adding either real MLB talent or getting great prospects. He just got a legitimate 3b, and now people are complaining.

Rolen is not going to be an MVP next year, but the upgrade over EdE is tremendous. Rolen doesn't have to hit 320 next year to still be a big upgrade.

I'm glad to see EdE go.. another guy that could never play defense.

We can survive losing Roenockie and Zach Stewart.

And I have to give Cast credit for taking on salary here to improve the team. I just ripped him a new one a few hours ago. Looks like he's still willing to spend some money. Maybe it's not hopeless afterall.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm happy with this trade.

Jpup
07-31-2009, 05:22 PM
And a kiss first.

I need a cigarette because the Reds just got...

Raisor
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
scared the total duck out of me, I


Why did you have one in you in the first place?

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
I wish Redszone had a sub-forum where members could bet each other real dollars.

Seriously. No one gets ribbed about that kind of absurd hyperbole.

reds44
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
This deal is dumber than "TEH TRADE!!!!!!!!!111"

flyer85
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
odds are high the 2010 Rolen looks a lot more like the 07 and 08 version than the 09 one.

Mario-Rijo
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
Walt is what I thought he was, a non talent evaluating GM. You don't give up those 2 in addition to EE just plain stupid. Roenicke I would have not liked to seen go but I could have understood it depending on the dollars involved. Stewart going in addition is just ludicrous in addition ot Roenicke or not.

wheels
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
I know Walt is semi geriatric, but has dementia already set in?

HumnHilghtFreel
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
Hate it. Just hate it.

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
As I was afraid: Target fixation and no other deals to support it.

LawFive
07-31-2009, 05:23 PM
Holy crap. A classic case of be careful what we wish for.

Strikes Out Looking
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
The glass:

1/2 empty: Stewart could be quite a pitcher down the road, Roenicke seemed to be a decent reliever and EE could end up hitting ok. And Rolen could go back to his gimpy ways.

1/2 full: Defense is upgraded tremendously--3b is better and Votto won't have to work as hard at 1b. The Reds still have lots of prospects to develop and/or trade. Rolen is a much more consistent hitter than EE and makes LF easier to fill (no need for as big a bat as before).

I(heart)Freel
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Going to be a while before we hear the accurate amount of cash coming this way. You can bank on it being a nice amount with the two pitchers thrown in.

Hate to lose the prospects, but if BJs send cash, there's still decent money to get a SS or LF next season. Just saying.

edabbs44
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
WTF on Stewart? Have you seen his numbers from this year? I just don't get this. COME ON!

Very Bailey like, those numbers.

bucksfan2
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
According to what I've read, Stewart was highly thought of. But, I wonder if there was more to his move to the bullpen in Louisville than just innings reduction?

Thats what I was thinking.

rotnoid
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
i know everyone loves stewart but in the top 100 prospects in baseball hes ranked where???? I mean hes a nice pitching prospect but you do have to give up something to get an all start GG thirdbasemen.


Right, you have to pay to get stuff. I don't hate this deal, and I can breathe again now that I know it's not Alonso. I just don't know if I understand the timing of it all.

Expect some waiver deals next month for Arroyo or Harang.

Falls City Beer
07-31-2009, 05:24 PM
EdE...fine, I can deal w/ that.

Roenicke...ok, he's a BP arm...livable.

WTF on Stewart? Have you seen his numbers from this year? I just don't get this. COME ON!

In short, he's a Reds' pitching prospect. Useless to the Reds.

But it's entirely possible that the Jays' farm system can develop him into something.

dsmith421
07-31-2009, 05:25 PM
i know everyone loves stewart but in the top 100 prospects in baseball hes ranked where???? I mean hes a nice pitching prospect but you do have to give up something to get an all start GG thirdbasemen.

Then we should have made this deal in 2002.

Benihana
07-31-2009, 05:25 PM
Awful, awful trade. Walt is done.

Ltlabner
07-31-2009, 05:25 PM
Cue Walt supporters with: Edwin had a bad attitude and was a clubhouse cancer

vaticanplum
07-31-2009, 05:25 PM
In short, he's a Reds' pitching prospect. Useless to the Reds.

But it's entirely possible that the Jays' farm system can develop him into something.

This is so sad, but I'd almost rather see good pitchers from the Reds' farm system go elsewhere while they're young, so they still have a chance.

Pathetic.