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View Full Version : Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/1/09. What players need protection in Rule V draft?



Gallen5862
08-01-2009, 05:00 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/...n.jsp?c_id=cin

40-Man Roster
* Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 61 Bronson Arroyo R/R 6-5 195 02/24/77
* 34 Homer Bailey R/R 6-3 210 05/03/86
* * 45 Bill Bray L/L 6-3 220 06/05/83
* * 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 230 06/02/81 **15-day Disabled List
* 48 Francisco Cordero R/R 6-3 240 05/11/75
* 47 Johnny Cueto R/R 5-10 200 02/15/86
* 46 Carlos Fisher R/R 6-4 225 02/22/83
* 39 Aaron Harang R/R 6-7 260 05/09/78
* 52 Daniel Ray Herrera L/L 5-6 165 10/21/84
* * 78 Sam LeCure R/R 6-1 205 05/04/84
* 62 Justin Lehr R/R 6-2 215 08/03/77
* * 57 Mike Lincoln R/R 6-2 220 04/10/75 **15-day Disabled List
* * 56 Matt Maloney L/L 6-4 220 01/16/84
* 40 Nick Masset R/R 6-4 235 05/17/82
* * 33 Micah Owings R/R 6-5 220 09/28/82 **15-day Disabled List
* * 58 Ramon Ramirez R/R 6-0 190 09/16/82
* 53 Arthur Rhodes L/L 6-2 210 10/24/69
* * 54 Daryl Thompson R/R 6-0 185 11/02/85
* * 36 Edinson Volquez R/R 6-0 210 07/03/83 **15-day Disabled List
* 25 David Weathers R/R 6-3 240 09/25/69
* 38 Kip Wells R/R 6-3 205 04/21/77

* Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* ** 26 Wilkin Castillo S/R 6-0 200 06/01/84 **60-day Disabled List
* 29 Ryan Hanigan R/R 6-0 200 08/16/80
* * 55 Ramon Hernandez R/R 6-0 225 05/20/76 **15-day Disabled List
* 30 Craig Tatum R/R 6-1 225 03/18/83

* Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* * 77 Yonder Alonso L/R 6-2 215 04/08/87
* * 68 Juan Francisco L/R 6-2 180 06/24/87
* 2 Alex Gonzalez R/R 5-11 215 02/15/77
* 7 Paul Janish R/R 6-2 195 10/12/82
* 4 Brandon Phillips R/R 6-0 195 06/28/81
* * 9 Danny Richar L/R 6-1 195 06/09/83 **15-day Disabled List
* 27 Scott Rolen R/R 6-4 240 04/04/75
* 23 Adam Rosales R/R 6-2 195 05/20/83
* 15 Drew Sutton S/R 6-3 185 06/30/83
* 19 Joey Votto L/R 6-3 235 09/10/83

* Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 64 Wladimir Balentien R/R 6-2 220 07/02/84
* * 32 Jay Bruce L/L 6-3 225 04/03/87 **15-day Disabled List
* * 21 Chris Dickerson L/L 6-3 230 04/10/82 **15-day Disabled List
* 31 Jonny Gomes R/R 6-1 225 11/22/80
* 17 Laynce Nix L/L 6-1 220 10/30/80
* 3 Willy Taveras R/R 6-0 160 12/25/81
*
* **Not on Active Roster
***Not on 40-Man Roster

The Reds 40 man roster is full. There looks like the Reds could create 3 or 4 40 man roster spots if needed by moving some players to 60 day dl. What moves would you make? What players not currently on 40 man roster need rule V protection in the December rule V draft?

GIDP
08-01-2009, 05:01 PM
So hard to read.

Gallen5862
08-01-2009, 05:04 PM
I put spaceing between the position groupings. Did that help?

GIDP
08-01-2009, 05:07 PM
I put spaceing between the position groupings. Did that help?

I dont know if you could fix it heh. Take away the heights ant stuff would probably help. I dont think its that big of a deal so dont worry about it.

HokieRed
08-01-2009, 05:54 PM
I'll make a stab at the pitchers. I think they'll let Weathers go and I don't think we protect Lehr, Wells, Thompson, Ramirez or Lincoln--depending of course on the spots we need. Personally I'd expose Bray too if necessary to protect somebody else.

BEETTLEBUG
08-02-2009, 12:53 AM
Lincoln has to be protected unless you are paying him cause he has contract for next year for 2mil.

JayBruceFan
08-02-2009, 12:56 AM
I would expect the Reds to remove the following players from the 40 Man roster:

Bill Bray (Can't stay healthy)
Justin Lehr
Kip Wells
Wilkin Castillo
Danny Richar

SirFelixCat
08-02-2009, 01:55 AM
Add in Hernandez and Gonzalez as guys that the Reds will remove (ie. not pick of their options) for next year. So there are the following spots:

Volquez (60 Day DL)
Wells (not retained for next year)
Hernandez (not retained for next year)
Gonzalez (not retained for next year)
Richar (60 Day DL)
Castillo (60 Day DL)

That's 6 spots, if I'm reading things correctly, no?

BEETTLEBUG
08-02-2009, 07:19 AM
Well then whom do you protect? since that was question

icehole3
08-02-2009, 09:12 AM
everybody else is what I take it to be and add some guys other teams dont protect and free agents

JaxRed
08-02-2009, 09:34 AM
This has a chance to be the stupidest thread of the week. It's the leader in the clubhouse.

princeton
08-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Well then whom do you protect? since that was question

guys that will have to be protected this fall are Stubbs, Valaika, Heisey, Wood, Valiquette. Viola is probably due this year and there may be other Latin players. Reds might also opt to protect Dorn, Jordan Smith, Sean Watson. Logan Ondrusek?

KoryMac5
08-02-2009, 10:24 AM
This has a chance to be the stupidest thread of the week. It's the leader in the clubhouse.

Rather insulting to call something someone obviously took some time with the stupidest thread of the week. Personally I am not thinking about the rule V draft yet, but maybe some folks are. Like I always tell people if you don't like it skip over it and read something else you enjoy. I think there are 65 pages of why the Rolen trade should not have been made to satisfy you.

mth123
08-02-2009, 11:18 AM
guys that will have to be protected this fall are Stubbs, Valaika, Heisey, Wood, Valiquette. Viola is probably due this year and there may be other Latin players. Reds might also opt to protect Dorn, Jordan Smith, Sean Watson. Logan Ondrusek?

Good info. That's 10 names. Spots freed up - probably 7 (Weathers, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Lehr, Wells, Richar, Nix, Thompson less one for Castillo coming off the DL). The 7 I'd protect are Heisey, Stubbs, Wood, Valaika, Ondrusek, Smith and Viola. Valiquette, Dorn and Watson would be left off for the draft. The Reds should release Taveras and Lincoln and protect Dorn and Valiquette. I wouldn't cut anyone else from the current 40 man unless the team can make some August or November deals to free more space.

icehole3
08-02-2009, 12:55 PM
Rather insulting to call something someone obviously took some time with the stupidest thread of the week. Personally I am not thinking about the rule V draft yet, but maybe some folks are. Like I always tell people if you don't like it skip over it and read something else you enjoy. I think there are 65 pages of why the Rolen trade should not have been made to satisfy you.

I agree Mac, Ive been slapped with a warning for less

TheNext44
08-02-2009, 01:06 PM
Burton is Arb eligible, so considering his performance this year, and his injury, he might not get offered a contract. If he's smart, he would agree to sign for a reasonable amount before it got to that point, but if he insists on a big raise, the Reds might just non-tender him.

Mario-Rijo
08-02-2009, 09:33 PM
Good info. That's 10 names. Spots freed up - probably 7 (Weathers, Gonzalez, Hernandez, Lehr, Wells, Richar, Nix, Thompson less one for Castillo coming off the DL). The 7 I'd protect are Heisey, Stubbs, Wood, Valaika, Ondrusek, Smith and Viola. Valiquette, Dorn and Watson would be left off for the draft. The Reds should release Taveras and Lincoln and protect Dorn and Valiquette. I wouldn't cut anyone else from the current 40 man unless the team can make some August or November deals to free more space.

That's about how I would see it if the players are accurate. Not sure I wouldn't protect Valiquette or Dorn over Ondrusek but I'm not as up on him as others I always thought he was more of a 6th/7th inning type of arm, kind of Manuel-Esque but as I said I don't know enough about his stuff to be positive.

I do question if those players are accurate for instance I didn't think Valaika and Watson would have to be put on it already. But I can't recall all the rule 5 eligible rules. I just know we drafted them what 2-3 years ago?

Mario-Rijo
08-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Burton is Arb eligible, so considering his performance this year, and his injury, he might not get offered a contract. If he's smart, he would agree to sign for a reasonable amount before it got to that point, but if he insists on a big raise, the Reds might just non-tender him.

I'd hate to see that I am hoping Burton and Bray come back healthy and productive next year. If so losing Roenicke & Stewart doesn't hurt as much.

GIDP
08-02-2009, 09:58 PM
there is no way we dont offer Burton arbitration if hes eligible. Even with the good years he had we still isnt going to be getting that much money. Plus its not like we have relievers piling up to replace him now that we traded Manuel, Josh and Zach.

HokieRed
08-02-2009, 11:55 PM
Hadn't really been paying that much attention, but Jeff Kennard is scoreless over his last 10 appearances, 16.2 with 22 K's. Might end up mattering to the question of this thread.

redsmetz
08-03-2009, 05:14 AM
Here's what the rule is for players needing to be protected:


Eligibility: A player not on a team's Major League 40-man roster is eligible for the Rule 5 draft if: the player was 18 or younger when he first signed a pro contract and this is the fourth Rule 5 draft since he signed, OR if he was 19 or older when he first signed a pro contract and this is the third Rule 5 draft since he signed.

Also, keep in mind that any player on the 60 day DL will have to be placed back on the 40 man roster at the close of the season. So while we've made room for others during the season, those be kept will have to find a 40 man shortly after the end of the season.

redsfandan
08-03-2009, 06:47 AM
nm

camisadelgolf
08-07-2009, 02:34 PM
Gone:
Ramon Hernandez (buyout)
Danny Richar (has already been DFAed once)
Alex Gonzalez (buyout)
Laynce Nix (not offered arbitration due to the young outfielders in AAA)
Jonny Gomes (see: Laynce Nix)
Sean Henry (not enough power to be worth a roster spot)
Dallas Buck (can't stay healthy)
Bill Bray (can't stay healthy and out of options)
Mike Lincoln (will be DFAed eventually)
Ben Jukich (one-trick pony that won't translate to ML success)
Alex Smit (probably a future LOOGY at best)
Enerio Del Rosario (a pitch-to-contact reliever isn't much of a commodity)
Phil Valiquette (too wild to be effective)

That would leave a 40-man roster of (new additions in bold):
(19)
C Ryan Hanigan
C Wilkin Castillo
C Craig Tatum
1B Joey Votto
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Brandon Phillips
2B Drew Sutton
3B Scott Rolen
3B Adam Rosales
3B Juan Francisco
SS Paul Janish
SS Chris Valaika
LF Wladimir Balentien
LF Danny Dorn
CF Chris Dickerson
CF Willy Taveras
CF Chris Heisey
CF Drew Stubbs
RF Jay Bruce

(12)
SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Homer Bailey
SP Micah Owings
SP Ramon Ramirez
SP Sam LeCure
SP Matt Maloney
SP Daryl Thompson
SP Jordan Smith
SP Travis Wood

(9)
RP Francisco Cordero
RP Arthur Rhodes
RP David Weathers
RP Nick Masset
RP Jared Burton
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Daniel Ray Herrera
RP Sean Watson
RP Pedro Viola

Mario-Rijo
08-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Gone:
Ramon Hernandez (buyout)
Danny Richar (has already been DFAed once)
Alex Gonzalez (buyout)
Laynce Nix (not offered arbitration due to the young outfielders in AAA)
Jonny Gomes (see: Laynce Nix)
Sean Henry (not enough power to be worth a roster spot)
Dallas Buck (can't stay healthy)
Bill Bray (can't stay healthy and out of options)
Mike Lincoln (will be DFAed eventually)
Ben Jukich (one-trick pony that won't translate to ML success)
Alex Smit (probably a future LOOGY at best)
Enerio Del Rosario (a pitch-to-contact reliever isn't much of a commodity)
Phil Valiquette (too wild to be effective)

That would leave a 40-man roster of (new additions in bold):
(19)
C Ryan Hanigan
C Wilkin Castillo
C Craig Tatum
1B Joey Votto
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Brandon Phillips
2B Drew Sutton
3B Scott Rolen
3B Adam Rosales
3B Juan Francisco
SS Paul Janish
SS Chris Valaika
LF Wladimir Balentien
LF Danny Dorn
CF Chris Dickerson
CF Willy Taveras
CF Chris Heisey
CF Drew Stubbs
RF Jay Bruce

(12)
SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Homer Bailey
SP Micah Owings
SP Ramon Ramirez
SP Sam LeCure
SP Matt Maloney
SP Daryl Thompson
SP Jordan Smith
SP Travis Wood

(9)
RP Francisco Cordero
RP Arthur Rhodes
RP David Weathers
RP Nick Masset
RP Jared Burton
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Daniel Ray Herrera
RP Sean Watson
RP Pedro Viola

Interesting assessment. The only guy in bold that you listed that I would have any problem adding to the 40 man is Watson, I just don't believe in the kid and I'm not sure he's even gotten any of his others pitches up to par yet. Pretty good additions.

That said the rest of the 40 is where I would change some things around. #1 I'd have a conversation with Ramon Hernandez (after I bought him out) about coming back as Hanigans back up at a much reduced price to last season. Although that has little to do with the 40 as I wouldn't sign him until after the rule 5 draft. But I would have to in essence save a spot for him and a few others. I think there is a lot of work to be done on the 40 this offseason, a lot. But I would have Bill Bray on my 40 man regardless he can stay healthy he did all of '08 and put up great numbers and his arm was (and probably still will be) too good to just throw away. Even if you don't think he's a long term keeper he can be a good trade chip.

Kc61
08-07-2009, 04:59 PM
Interesting assessment. The only guy in bold that you listed that I would have any problem adding to the 40 man is Watson, I just don't believe in the kid and I'm not sure he's even gotten any of his others pitches up to par yet. Pretty good additions.

.

Watson has too much ability to let him walk.

I'd be suprised if he isn't protected.

I wonder if Wilkin Castillo and Ramon Ramirez will be protected, among those on the projected list. Darryl Thompson could be a question mark with his health problems. And the Reds may deal Maloney, they don't seem to want him in the big leagues, I don't know what kind of future he has with the club.

dougdirt
08-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Watson has too much ability to let him walk.

I'd be suprised if he isn't protected.

At the same time, I would be surprised if he were to be drafted if left unprotected. At the same time, there is no way the Reds don't protect a lefty that throws 95 MPH in Valiquette. He will be protected short of an arm injury between now and the end of the year.

GOYA
08-07-2009, 07:14 PM
Hadn't really been paying that much attention, but Jeff Kennard is scoreless over his last 10 appearances, 16.2 with 22 K's. Might end up mattering to the question of this thread.

The streak is longer than that. It's over 23 innings.

I would not protect Valiquette. I might protect Jukich unless he falters at the end of this season. I would also protect Ondrusek.

HokieRed
08-07-2009, 08:45 PM
The streak is longer than that. It's over 23 innings.

I would not protect Valiquette. I might protect Jukich unless he falters at the end of this season. I would also protect Ondrusek.

Streak was 16.2 over his last ten outings when I posted. I would protect Valiquette if possible; I would protect him over Castillo and Valaika for sure and perhaps before others.

gedred69
08-07-2009, 09:06 PM
Gone:
Ramon Hernandez (buyout)
Danny Richar (has already been DFAed once)
Alex Gonzalez (buyout)
Laynce Nix (not offered arbitration due to the young outfielders in AAA)
Jonny Gomes (see: Laynce Nix)
Sean Henry (not enough power to be worth a roster spot)
Dallas Buck (can't stay healthy)
Bill Bray (can't stay healthy and out of options)
Mike Lincoln (will be DFAed eventually)
Ben Jukich (one-trick pony that won't translate to ML success)
Alex Smit (probably a future LOOGY at best)
Enerio Del Rosario (a pitch-to-contact reliever isn't much of a commodity)
Phil Valiquette (too wild to be effective)

That would leave a 40-man roster of (new additions in bold):
(19)
C Ryan Hanigan
C Wilkin Castillo
C Craig Tatum
1B Joey Votto
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Brandon Phillips
2B Drew Sutton
3B Scott Rolen
3B Adam Rosales
3B Juan Francisco
SS Paul Janish
SS Chris Valaika
LF Wladimir Balentien
LF Danny Dorn
CF Chris Dickerson
CF Willy Taveras
CF Chris Heisey
CF Drew Stubbs
RF Jay Bruce

(12)
SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Homer Bailey
SP Micah Owings
SP Ramon Ramirez
SP Sam LeCure
SP Matt Maloney
SP Daryl Thompson
SP Jordan Smith
SP Travis Wood

(9)
RP Francisco Cordero
RP Arthur Rhodes
RP David Weathers
RP Nick Masset
RP Jared Burton
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Daniel Ray Herrera
RP Sean Watson
RP Pedro Viola

This list makes a lot of sense. Sorry to agree on Bray, many in baseball saw him as one of the best up and coming LH relievers, but he hasn't been healthy. Agree on Smith, but his inability to stay healthy has to be a concern. I just wonder though, how a Dorn/Gomes platoon in LF might do. It should reach 40+ HRs for sure.

lollipopcurve
08-07-2009, 09:59 PM
Daryl Thompson should not be protected. His arm is shot. I don't think Jordan Smith is healthy either.

Mario-Rijo
08-08-2009, 01:22 PM
Watson has too much ability to let him walk.

I'd be suprised if he isn't protected.

I wonder if Wilkin Castillo and Ramon Ramirez will be protected, among those on the projected list. Darryl Thompson could be a question mark with his health problems. And the Reds may deal Maloney, they don't seem to want him in the big leagues, I don't know what kind of future he has with the club.

Like Doug I'd be surprised if he does get drafted were he not protected. There is no way he can stick at the major league level right now. Kind of foolish to draft a bullpen arm and lock down a 25 man spot for the whole season unless he can actually get by there and Watson cannot yet. I leave him unprotected for that reason. Besides throwing an average major league fastball and a great knuckle curve he doesn't really have anything else that shouts "gotta keep him".

Mario-Rijo
08-08-2009, 01:24 PM
The streak is longer than that. It's over 23 innings.

I would not protect Valiquette. I might protect Jukich unless he falters at the end of this season. I would also protect Ondrusek.

Jukich, I don't know I'd protect him, maybe. His stuff is a bot too fringy I would think to be concerned somebody would get him but he is an arm that could probably stick at the major league level and survive but probably on a pitching needy club only. Maybe like the Nats.

On Ondrusek can someone give me some info on what he throws? For whatever reason he is one that just slipped under my radar.

Mario-Rijo
08-08-2009, 01:28 PM
Streak was 16.2 over his last ten outings when I posted. I would protect Valiquette if possible; I would protect him over Castillo and Valaika for sure and perhaps before others.

I'd definitely protect him over Castillo at this point. Valaika I still think needs to be protected his bat is just too good to let go of. I think he is a natural hitter who has yet to hit his stride yet in AAA, what with the early season injury and all.

Mario-Rijo
08-08-2009, 01:41 PM
This list makes a lot of sense. Sorry to agree on Bray, many in baseball saw him as one of the best up and coming LH relievers, but he hasn't been healthy. Agree on Smith, but his inability to stay healthy has to be a concern. I just wonder though, how a Dorn/Gomes platoon in LF might do. It should reach 40+ HRs for sure.

Bray pitched in 63 games last year and 48 his rookie season, missed this year and had some injuries in '07 but still pitched in 37 games between the big club and Louisville. Hasn't been healthy is being blown out of proportion in this case. Too soon to throw away such a talented arm.

I don't know about Dorn Gomes but Dorn/Balentein could be intriguing.

HokieRed
08-08-2009, 02:56 PM
I'd definitely protect him over Castillo at this point. Valaika I still think needs to be protected his bat is just too good to let go of. I think he is a natural hitter who has yet to hit his stride yet in AAA, what with the early season injury and all.


Not inclined to give Valaika protection, as I think there's slim chance he'll be taken. Almost all the action is about pitchers. For teams looking for position players there have to be people farther along than Valaika. Coming off the kind of season he's having in AAA, I just don't think there'd be a lot of danger in exposing him.

Kc61
08-08-2009, 05:23 PM
Not inclined to give Valaika protection, as I think there's slim chance he'll be taken. Almost all the action is about pitchers. For teams looking for position players there have to be people farther along than Valaika. Coming off the kind of season he's having in AAA, I just don't think there'd be a lot of danger in exposing him.

Valaika is one of the Reds top prospects. You do not expose someone like that.

Valaika, like others, has a history of breaking in slowly to new levels. It's just development, he'll do better next year.

He won't be exposed and I doubt Watson or Valiquette will be exposed. The Reds will make room for all their high level prospects on the forty man roster.

HokieRed
08-08-2009, 05:28 PM
There are some pretty d--- good position players in that draft every year that don't even get a whiff. I hope we can protect Valaika but I'd certainly protect a number of pitchers before him. And I really don't consider him a top prospect.

Kc61
08-08-2009, 05:52 PM
There are some pretty d--- good position players in that draft every year that don't even get a whiff. I hope we can protect Valaika but I'd certainly protect a number of pitchers before him. And I really don't consider him a top prospect.

Personally, I've never been a big fan but most of the top prospects lists had Valaika highly rated for the Reds last off-season. I know he's had a down year at AAA, but so what, it's one year and a new level.

I don't think teams do or should re-rank prospects every time they have a bad year, particularly when they go to a new level.

i also don't think most teams expose high draft choice/ranked prospects unless they have completely given up on them.

If Valaika does poorly at AAA next year, then maybe. This time around I'd be amazed if they exposed him.

And frankly, if a highly touted guy is to be exposed, the team would be better off just trading them for value. With Valaika's pedigree, I'm sure another team would love to have him in a trade.

As to whether he would be drafted in the Rule V draft, who knows.

HokieRed
08-08-2009, 06:03 PM
Well, I think you've got to take some calculated chances in making decisions about who to protect. I've got nothing against protecting Valaika if protecting him doesn't mean we expose somebody else we're going to need--i.e pitching. As to somebody else taking him, I don't see that much danger that somebody will use a 25 man spot for a guy whose OPS is something like .540 over 250 AB's in AAA. Even if he is a major leaguer, I doubt he's going to be one next year.

Mario-Rijo
08-08-2009, 07:02 PM
Well, I think you've got to take some calculated chances in making decisions about who to protect. I've got nothing against protecting Valaika if protecting him doesn't mean we expose somebody else we're going to need--i.e pitching. As to somebody else taking him, I don't see that much danger that somebody will use a 25 man spot for a guy whose OPS is something like .540 over 250 AB's in AAA. Even if he is a major leaguer, I doubt he's going to be one next year.

It's easy Valaika is a better bat (and defender) than Sutton, so there is where you make your cut.

HokieRed
08-08-2009, 07:30 PM
I won't miss either one. I think it's time to get out of denial and raise the standards.

Gallen5862
08-09-2009, 03:41 PM
David Weathers just got traded to the Brewers. That creates both a 25 man roster spot and a 40 man roster spot. any ideas on who might be taking those spots?

HokieRed
08-09-2009, 04:21 PM
David Weathers just got traded to the Brewers. That creates both a 25 man roster spot and a 40 man roster spot. any ideas on who might be taking those spots?

Possibly the PTBNL.

LoganBuck
08-09-2009, 04:25 PM
Possibly the PTBNL.

Alcides Escobar:D

Mario-Rijo
08-10-2009, 03:18 AM
I won't miss either one. I think it's time to get out of denial and raise the standards.

What is it that is being denied? Valaika isn't worth retaining is that what you are saying? I think if you haven't put eyes on this kid you cannot appreciate what he does at the plate, the kid is a natural born batsman. If they leave him unprotected and he doesn't get selected I'd be utterly shocked. Guys with his type of natural born skills don't get left unprotected unless there are some serious other concerns and that doesn't apply here.

camisadelgolf
08-10-2009, 08:58 AM
The reason I don't see the Reds keeping Bray is because they'd have to offer him arbitration. I'm just not sure he's worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars needed to keep him around.

HokieRed
08-10-2009, 10:04 AM
What is it that is being denied? Valaika isn't worth retaining is that what you are saying? I think if you haven't put eyes on this kid you cannot appreciate what he does at the plate, the kid is a natural born batsman. If they leave him unprotected and he doesn't get selected I'd be utterly shocked. Guys with his type of natural born skills don't get left unprotected unless there are some serious other concerns and that doesn't apply here.

He's got a slightly over .500 OPS at AAA in more than 250 AB's. I don't deny he's got some potential. He's just unlikely to get drafted. Teams that are hurting enough to spend a 25 man spot on a project like that are a lot more likely to take a pitcher. I'd like to keep him, of course, but not at the expense of anybody I considered a potential major league arm.

LoganBuck
08-10-2009, 01:53 PM
What are the differences between the major league, and AAA phases of the Rule V draft? I admit to being a little confused on the difference.

TheNext44
08-10-2009, 02:12 PM
there is no way we dont offer Burton arbitration if hes eligible. Even with the good years he had we still isnt going to be getting that much money. Plus its not like we have relievers piling up to replace him now that we traded Manuel, Josh and Zach.

Arbitration salaries are usually based on the last three years of service. They factor things like injuries, but it mostly goes by comparisons based on the last three years of service. Remember, it is common for players going through arbitration to get more than they would as free agents. That is why so many teams non-tender or don't offer arbitration these days.

Here are Burton's numbers for his three years of service:

9-3 3.65 ERA 7.8 K/9 1.88 K/BB 1.39 WHIP

Those numbers should get him around $3.5-$4M for next season. If they factor in last year, and his being sent down, at wost he gets $2.5-$3M. No way the Reds risk that on Burton for next year.

He can easily be replaced for around $1M. Now, they might tell him that, and that if they don't tender him a contract, that is all he will get as a free agent, and maybe he signs for around that, avoiding arbitration. But they are not going to offer him arbitration.

Scrap Irony
08-10-2009, 02:30 PM
I think the next two months determine whether Burton gets offered arbitration or not. I think Cincinnati is leaning, at this point, to not.

princeton
08-10-2009, 03:52 PM
What are the differences between the major league, and AAA phases of the Rule V draft? I admit to being a little confused on the difference.

after ML teams protect their top 40 players from selection in the major league phase, they then protect their next best 25 or so on their AAA team's roster, and after that their next 25 or so on their AA team's roster. so the players chosen in AAA phase are number 66 or lower in terms of franchise value (and actually much worse because so many more valuable young players do not have to be protected). I've almost never seen a player of merit chosen in the AAA phase. it's not worth paying attention to.

lollipopcurve
08-10-2009, 04:12 PM
I think the next two months determine whether Burton gets offered arbitration or not. I think Cincinnati is leaning, at this point, to not.

Agreed. I think I've come to appreciate, somewhat begrudgingly, the deliberation with which the team is moving in making certain roster decisions (not all). The Burton case is one, especially now that they've moved Roenicke and Stewart. Best to see if he can recapture the form that made him so solid in late 2007 and in stretches last year -- before moving on to experiments with other guys.

HokieRed
08-10-2009, 10:40 PM
Burton did nothing for his case tonight; I'm predicting it will be Burton out, Wells in, when the decision's got to be made.

CTA513
08-10-2009, 10:48 PM
Burton did nothing for his case tonight; I'm predicting it will be Burton out, Wells in, when the decision's got to be made.

Wells shouldn't keep a roster spot over anyone.

SirFelixCat
08-10-2009, 11:17 PM
Wells shouldn't keep a roster spot over anyone.

Agreed, but Burton shouldn't either. He has been nothing short of HORRIBLE pretty much all of 2009. I would much rather him not be offered arbitration and go w/ a young option in AAA. His production, or lack thereof deserves nothing else, imo.

HokieRed
08-10-2009, 11:23 PM
I think Wells may have a chance to help this team as a reliever in 2010. He had a 1.5 GO/AO in his appearances at Wash., and was not really hit that hard. He's won 65 major league games. It's just possible he could learn to pitch relief here and be useful.

GIDP
08-11-2009, 12:42 AM
Agreed, but Burton shouldn't either. He has been nothing short of HORRIBLE pretty much all of 2009. I would much rather him not be offered arbitration and go w/ a young option in AAA. His production, or lack thereof deserves nothing else, imo.

We have traded all of our young options in AAA pretty much.

Slyder
08-11-2009, 12:48 AM
Burton did nothing for his case tonight; I'm predicting it will be Burton out, Wells in, when the decision's got to be made.

If Kip Wells is kept for any reason after this season then the entire Reds brain trust need to have lobotomies. Kip Wells has been awful for years and will continue to be awful until his time in baseball is through. He should be the absolute last guy to keep of anyone on the 40 man roster besides MAYBE Castillo.

CTA513
08-11-2009, 03:14 AM
I think Wells may have a chance to help this team as a reliever in 2010. He had a 1.5 GO/AO in his appearances at Wash., and was not really hit that hard. He's won 65 major league games. It's just possible he could learn to pitch relief here and be useful.

He gets ground balls but he walks a lot of hitters just like he did tonight.
Hes pitched 29 innings this season and has walked 21 hitters.
In 1257 major league innings hes walked just under 600 hitters.
If he couldn't cut down his walks with the Cardinals then I doubt he ever will.

camisadelgolf
08-11-2009, 10:15 AM
An update: I replaced Dave Weathers' spot with Enerio Del Rosario (you just can't ignore that production), and I inserted Phil Valiquette in place of Sean Watson since Valiquette is younger and left-handed.

Gone:
Ramon Hernandez (buyout)
Danny Richar (has already been DFAed once)
Alex Gonzalez (buyout)
Laynce Nix (not offered arbitration due to the young outfielders in AAA)
Jonny Gomes (see: Laynce Nix)
Sean Henry (not enough power to be worth a roster spot)
Dallas Buck (can't stay healthy)
Bill Bray (can't stay healthy and out of options; will be nontendered)
Mike Lincoln (will be DFAed eventually)
Ben Jukich (one-trick pony that won't translate to ML success)
Alex Smit (probably a future LOOGY at best)
Sean Watson (plenty of potential, but the wildness is a big question mark)
Justin Lehr (a AAAA player who would need to be offered arbitration to stick around)
Kip Wells (history says he should have no place on the team)

That would leave a 40-man roster of (new additions in bold):
(19)
C Ryan Hanigan
C Wilkin Castillo
C Craig Tatum
1B Joey Votto
1B Yonder Alonso
2B Brandon Phillips
2B Drew Sutton
3B Scott Rolen
3B Adam Rosales
3B Juan Francisco
SS Paul Janish
SS Chris Valaika
LF Wladimir Balentien
LF Danny Dorn
CF Chris Dickerson
CF Willy Taveras
CF Chris Heisey
CF Drew Stubbs
RF Jay Bruce

(12)
SP Edinson Volquez
SP Aaron Harang
SP Johnny Cueto
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Homer Bailey
SP Micah Owings
SP Ramon Ramirez
SP Sam LeCure
SP Matt Maloney
SP Daryl Thompson
SP Jordan Smith
SP Travis Wood

(9)
RP Francisco Cordero
RP Arthur Rhodes
RP Nick Masset
RP Jared Burton
RP Carlos Fisher
RP Daniel Ray Herrera
RP Phil Valiquette
RP Enerio Del Rosario
RP Pedro Viola

GIDP
08-11-2009, 11:05 AM
Kip Wells better not be on our 40 man at the start of spring.

redsmetz
08-11-2009, 03:12 PM
Kip Wells better not be on our 40 man at the start of spring.

This is extremely unlikely. Wells is seasonal fodder filling in when you have a lot of players out. They won't be holding on to him especially when they've got so many players they need to consider protecting from the Rule 5 draft.

princeton
08-11-2009, 03:18 PM
I can't tell you how worried I am about protecting all of our bad players.

just you watch, though. Reds will worry about such things and not call up Cozart in September so as to keep a spot open for the off-season.

camisadelgolf
08-11-2009, 04:13 PM
Kip Wells will almost definitely be nontendered and then sign with someone after the rule five draft. The same thing goes for Justin Lehr unless he ends the season particularly well.

BRM
08-11-2009, 04:26 PM
I can't tell you how worried I am about protecting all of our bad players.

just you watch, though. Reds will worry about such things and not call up Cozart in September so as to keep a spot open for the off-season.

Dusty wouldn't play Cozart even if he was called up. Walt would have to DFA Gonzalez and send Janish and Rosales to Louisville. Leaving him no other choice but to play Cozart at SS.

GIDP
08-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Dusty wouldn't play Cozart even if he was called up. Walt would have to DFA Gonzalez and send Janish and Rosales to Louisville. Leaving him no other choice but to play Cozart at SS.

and promote bolivar, barker, and Corky Miller 1st

redsof72
08-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Here is another guy that I did not realize was Rule V eligible until yesterday: Enerio Del Rosario. He is now throwing 90-93, always had great command, is now dropping down to a low-three quarter delivery, and the Reds are taking him seriously.

Part of the reason for his rapid promotion all the way to Louisville was to see what he would do at higher levels BECAUSE HE IS RULE V ELIGIBLE.

They will have some tough decisions.

When asked who the three pitchers in the organization were that had made the biggest jumps in 2009, a key member of the Player Development staff said: Travis Wood (obvious one), Logan Ondrusek, and Enerio Del Rosario.

Benihana
08-12-2009, 04:48 PM
When asked who the three pitchers in the organization were that had made the biggest jumps in 2009, a key member of the Player Development staff said: Travis Wood (obvious one), Logan Ondrusek, and Enerio Del Rosario.

No Josh Ravin?

Gallen5862
08-14-2009, 08:17 PM
Here is the Reds 40 Man Roster as of 8/14/09. There is still one opening on the 40 man roster left.
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=cin

40-Man Roster

* Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 61 Bronson Arroyo R/R 6-5 195 02/24/77
* 34 Homer Bailey R/R 6-3 210 05/03/86
* * 45 Bill Bray L/L 6-3 220 06/05/83
* 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 230 06/02/81
* 48 Francisco Cordero R/R 6-3 240 05/11/75
* 47 Johnny Cueto R/R 5-10 200 02/15/86
* 46 Carlos Fisher R/R 6-4 225 02/22/83
* 39 Aaron Harang R/R 6-7 260 05/09/78
* 52 Daniel Ray Herrera L/L 5-6 165 10/21/84
* * 78 Sam LeCure R/R 6-1 205 05/04/84
* 62 Justin Lehr R/R 6-2 215 08/03/77
* * 57 Mike Lincoln R/R 6-2 220 04/10/75 **15-day Disabled List
* * 56 Matt Maloney L/L 6-4 220 01/16/84
* 40 Nick Masset R/R 6-4 235 05/17/82
* * 33 Micah Owings R/R 6-5 220 09/28/82 **15-day Disabled List
* * 58 Ramon Ramirez R/R 6-0 190 09/16/82
* 53 Arthur Rhodes L/L 6-2 210 10/24/69
* * 54 Daryl Thompson R/R 6-0 185 11/02/85
* * 36 Edinson Volquez R/R 6-0 210 07/03/83 **15-day Disabled List
* 38 Kip Wells R/R 6-3 205 04/21/77

* Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* ** 26 Wilkin Castillo S/R 6-0 200 06/01/84 **60-day Disabled List
* 29 Ryan Hanigan R/R 6-0 200 08/16/80
* * 55 Ramon Hernandez R/R 6-0 225 05/20/76 **15-day Disabled List
* 30 Craig Tatum R/R 6-1 225 03/18/83

* Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* * 77 Yonder Alonso L/R 6-2 215 04/08/87
* 60 Kevin Barker L/L 6-2 195 07/26/75
* * 68 Juan Francisco L/R 6-2 180 06/24/87
* 7 Paul Janish R/R 6-2 195 10/12/82
* 4 Brandon Phillips R/R 6-0 195 06/28/81
* * 9 Danny Richar L/R 6-1 195 06/09/83 **15-day Disabled List
* * 27 Scott Rolen R/R 6-4 240 04/04/75 **15-day Disabled List
* 23 Adam Rosales R/R 6-2 195 05/20/83
* 15 Drew Sutton S/R 6-3 185 06/30/83
* 19 Joey Votto L/R 6-3 235 09/10/83

* Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 64 Wladimir Balentien R/R 6-2 220 07/02/84
* * 32 Jay Bruce L/L 6-3 225 04/03/87 **15-day Disabled List
* 21 Chris Dickerson L/L 6-3 230 04/10/82
* 31 Jonny Gomes R/R 6-1 225 11/22/80
* 17 Laynce Nix L/L 6-1 220 10/30/80
* 3 Willy Taveras R/R 6-0 160 12/25/81
*
* **Not on Active Roster
***Not on 40-Man Roster

HokieRed
08-25-2009, 11:24 PM
Anybody think we'd have been better off with Kip Wells at the beginning of the 9th tonight? I think Jared Burton probably opened up a 40 man roster spot for 2010,

CTA513
08-25-2009, 11:26 PM
Anybody think we'd have been better off with Kip Wells at the beginning of the 9th tonight? I think Jared Burton probably opened up a 40 man roster spot for 2010,

Kip Wells is supposed to start tomorrow.

GIDP
08-25-2009, 11:28 PM
Anybody think we'd have been better off with Kip Wells at the beginning of the 9th tonight? I think Jared Burton probably opened up a 40 man roster spot for 2010,

No

Topcat
08-26-2009, 03:35 AM
I would expect the Reds to remove the following players from the 40 Man roster:

Bill Bray (Can't stay healthy)
Justin Lehr
Kip Wells
Wilkin Castillo
Danny Richar

Second that JBF:thumbup:

camisadelgolf
08-26-2009, 08:19 AM
In case anyone was wondering, Mike Lincoln and Edinson Volquez were the two players who were added to the 60-day DL. I think we can all expect the Reds to take Corky Miller and Darnell McDonald of the 40-man roster when the season ends.

RNTquack1
08-27-2009, 11:06 AM
What are the chances of Wood moving this year?

GIDP
08-27-2009, 11:14 AM
what do you mean moving?

RNTquack1
08-27-2009, 11:16 AM
Sorry, that was a little vague. I see that most say he will be placed on the 40-man.

What are the chances of that or percentage?

Also, who is going to start SAT against LA

HokieRed
08-27-2009, 11:17 AM
Anybody think Wells raised his chances of being on the 40 last night?

GIDP
08-27-2009, 11:26 AM
Anybody think Wells raised his chances of being on the 40 last night?

Knowing the Reds yes

HokieRed
08-27-2009, 12:45 PM
Finding guys like Wells at the point where they may have learned to be effective is an important part of putting together a successful bullpen. I'm not saying--yet--that Wells is in that category but he may very well be. The guy has won 65 major league games, which is a whole lot more than many of our pitchers--including some most beloved on RZ--will likely ever win.

GIDP
08-27-2009, 12:50 PM
Finding guys like Wells at the point where they may have learned to be effective is an important part of putting together a successful bullpen. I'm not saying--yet--that Wells is in that category but he may very well be. The guy has won 65 major league games, which is a whole lot more than many of our pitchers--including some most beloved on RZ--will likely ever win.

I really dont care how many games hes won, but we can play this game all day if you want. He's also a lost whole lot more than any of our most hated reds are going to in their careers.

HokieRed
08-27-2009, 03:11 PM
I really dont care how many games hes won, but we can play this game all day if you want. He's also a lost whole lot more than any of our most hated reds are going to in their careers.

I'm not interested in playing any games. I just think there's a good chance people should start taking the possibility of Wells being on the roster next year when they start calculating who has to be on/off regarding Rule 5 picks.

GIDP
08-27-2009, 03:26 PM
I'm not interested in playing any games. I just think there's a good chance people should start taking the possibility of Wells being on the roster next year when they start calculating who has to be on/off regarding Rule 5 picks.

You are certainly trying to play a game when you say hes won more games than some guys on our guys have or will.

Bumstead
08-27-2009, 03:46 PM
Kip Wells? C'mon, he's one of the worst active pitchers in MLB and he's only on the 40-man roster now because the Reds have so many injuries and he's cheap...I don't think even the Reds would do something as silly as leave him on the 40-man roster. He won't even be under contract at the time of the Rule 5 draft so the whole conversation is mind-boggling. Lehr most likely won't be under contact at that time either, and even if he was, he won't be taking a younger players spot at this point.

Bum

HokieRed
08-27-2009, 05:14 PM
Kip Wells? C'mon, he's one of the worst active pitchers in MLB and he's only on the 40-man roster now because the Reds have so many injuries and he's cheap...I don't think even the Reds would do something as silly as leave him on the 40-man roster. He won't even be under contract at the time of the Rule 5 draft so the whole conversation is mind-boggling. Lehr most likely won't be under contact at that time either, and even if he was, he won't be taking a younger players spot at this point.

Bum

Sorry to disagree, but right now I'd put both Lehr and Wells ahead of Micah Owings in the rotation. I don't really think, though, that Wells has a future in the rotation for us, but the guy is an experienced pitcher, he threw four scoreless yesterday, his velocity was in the mid 90's throughout. My objection about him is to seeing him constantly dissed by a lot of RZ wannabes. Nobody who's won 65 major league games deserves to be called roster fodder etc. I don't agree with Dusty about much, but he does know something when he talks about respect.

GIDP
08-27-2009, 05:20 PM
What does RZ wannabes even mean?

Mario-Rijo
08-28-2009, 03:20 AM
Sorry to disagree, but right now I'd put both Lehr and Wells ahead of Micah Owings in the rotation. I don't really think, though, that Wells has a future in the rotation for us, but the guy is an experienced pitcher, he threw four scoreless yesterday, his velocity was in the mid 90's throughout. My objection about him is to seeing him constantly dissed by a lot of RZ wannabes. Nobody who's won 65 major league games deserves to be called roster fodder etc. I don't agree with Dusty about much, but he does know something when he talks about respect.

Well Kip hasn't yet fixed his issue which is he can't consistently throw strikes. He walks way too many guys. 4.3 BB's per 9 in his career and currently sitting at 5.3 so far early on. Relief pitchers can't be coming in starting fires they need to throw strikes. And that's not too mention his career 9.4 Hits per 9.

LoganBuck
08-28-2009, 07:18 AM
Sorry to disagree, but right now I'd put both Lehr and Wells ahead of Micah Owings in the rotation. I don't really think, though, that Wells has a future in the rotation for us, but the guy is an experienced pitcher, he threw four scoreless yesterday, his velocity was in the mid 90's throughout. My objection about him is to seeing him constantly dissed by a lot of RZ wannabes. Nobody who's won 65 major league games deserves to be called roster fodder etc. I don't agree with Dusty about much, but he does know something when he talks about respect.

How about chaff? Because at this point that is what he is. He allows way too many baserunners, and in general is not a player that contributes to winning baseball. In short, he stinks, and since when did counting stats like cumulative career wins become a measuring stick? If we are playing that game can't we talk about his career .401 winning percentage, or his 97 losses? He hasn't done anything since 2003. He hasn't posted a sub 1.5 whip since then.

HokieRed
08-28-2009, 08:06 AM
I have more respect for all players than to call any of them "chaff," or "fodder," or "dreck," terms routinely thrown around by Rzers. Those are terms, IMO, used by people who have an insufficient appreciation for the achievement of those who play the game at this level and particularly for those who have managed to stay around as long as Wells. My point about his 65 wins was not some kind of statistical projection of what he'll do; it was a point about the respect he deserves for what he's done. As to his lifetime percentage, it's worth remembering he's been on some pretty bad teams. What I just don't get is why people are so completely unwilling even to consider the possibility that a Wells or Lehr could contribute, probably from the pen, to this club next year. Wells' control is an issue, of course, as is Lehr's velocity. But pitchers do sometimes manage a rotation to pen transition sometimes and I've even seen a couple of successful righthanders throw no harder than Lehr. That's the last I'm saying about either of them.

GIDP
08-28-2009, 08:30 AM
I have more respect for all players than to call any of them "chaff," or "fodder," or "dreck," terms routinely thrown around by Rzers. Those are terms, IMO, used by people who have an insufficient appreciation for the achievement of those who play the game at this level and particularly for those who have managed to stay around as long as Wells. My point about his 65 wins was not some kind of statistical projection of what he'll do; it was a point about the respect he deserves for what he's done. As to his lifetime percentage, it's worth remembering he's been on some pretty bad teams. What I just don't get is why people are so completely unwilling even to consider the possibility that a Wells or Lehr could contribute, probably from the pen, to this club next year. Wells' control is an issue, of course, as is Lehr's velocity. But pitchers do sometimes manage a rotation to pen transition sometimes and I've even seen a couple of successful righthanders throw no harder than Lehr. That's the last I'm saying about either of them.

"Wins dont matter but they do"

lollipopcurve
08-28-2009, 08:34 AM
I have more respect for all players than to call any of them "chaff," or "fodder," or "dreck," terms routinely thrown around by Rzers. Those are terms, IMO, used by people who have an insufficient appreciation for the achievement of those who play the game at this level and particularly for those who have managed to stay around as long as Wells. My point about his 65 wins was not some kind of statistical projection of what he'll do; it was a point about the respect he deserves for what he's done. As to his lifetime percentage, it's worth remembering he's been on some pretty bad teams. What I just don't get is why people are so completely unwilling even to consider the possibility that a Wells or Lehr could contribute, probably from the pen, to this club next year. Wells' control is an issue, of course, as is Lehr's velocity. But pitchers do sometimes manage a rotation to pen transition sometimes and I've even seen a couple of successful righthanders throw no harder than Lehr. That's the last I'm saying about either of them.

Excellent post.

Bumstead
08-28-2009, 09:55 AM
I have more respect for all players than to call any of them "chaff," or "fodder," or "dreck," terms routinely thrown around by Rzers. Those are terms, IMO, used by people who have an insufficient appreciation for the achievement of those who play the game at this level and particularly for those who have managed to stay around as long as Wells. My point about his 65 wins was not some kind of statistical projection of what he'll do; it was a point about the respect he deserves for what he's done. As to his lifetime percentage, it's worth remembering he's been on some pretty bad teams. What I just don't get is why people are so completely unwilling even to consider the possibility that a Wells or Lehr could contribute, probably from the pen, to this club next year. Wells' control is an issue, of course, as is Lehr's velocity. But pitchers do sometimes manage a rotation to pen transition sometimes and I've even seen a couple of successful righthanders throw no harder than Lehr. That's the last I'm saying about either of them.

I didn't refer to him as any of those things only as a bad MLB pitcher which is what he has been for at least the last 5 years. Why would the Reds waste a 40 man roster spot on a bad 30-some-odd-year-old pitcher that will be no part of their future??? Why? If you are related to him, I can understand why you are upset but otherwise it's just silly to even consider or take seriously. Lehr...he just shouldn't take anyone's spot that might have a future. Micah Owings takes way more flack than he deserves on this board for a guy that still has a chance to get better and help this team. If you are mad about how anyone gets disrespected on this board, you should be mad about how Owings gets maligned...among others before Wells/Lehr...

This is a silly argument; we should be debating the younger guys that may need to be protected on the 40-man roster, not these old guys that have no chance to be on there at the time of the Rule 5 draft.

Bum

Mario-Rijo
08-28-2009, 01:08 PM
I didn't refer to him as any of those things only as a bad MLB pitcher which is what he has been for at least the last 5 years. Why would the Reds waste a 40 man roster spot on a bad 30-some-odd-year-old pitcher that will be no part of their future??? Why? If you are related to him, I can understand why you are upset but otherwise it's just silly to even consider or take seriously. Lehr...he just shouldn't take anyone's spot that might have a future. Micah Owings takes way more flack than he deserves on this board for a guy that still has a chance to get better and help this team. If you are mad about how anyone gets disrespected on this board, you should be mad about how Owings gets maligned...among others before Wells/Lehr...

This is a silly argument; we should be debating the younger guys that may need to be protected on the 40-man roster, not these old guys that have no chance to be on there at the time of the Rule 5 draft.

Bum

Well Micah is what he is and without a drastic change in his delivery he will continue to be what he is, a potential impact bat wasting his talent trying to pitch. Micah is sort of a guy in the middle of Wells and Lehr. He has trouble locating his pitches especially anything on the left side of the plate due to his delivery but he's better than Wells at locating and his stuff is better than Lehr's but not by a whole lot. In fact if you take away a couple of MPH from Micah there's not much difference between the two stuffwise. He's an acceptable #5 pitcher because he helps out offensively.

Lehr is the kind of guy whom you keep in AAA for emergency situations such as these. Wells is the kind of guy you do the same with at best at this point in his career, he's best used when an emergency in AAA or MLB arises. His best chance to have continued MLB exposure is moving around team to team every year where emergency's happen.

mace
08-28-2009, 01:39 PM
Would not the same have been said about Ryan Franklin a couple years ago?

Mario-Rijo
08-28-2009, 01:48 PM
Would not the same have been said about Ryan Franklin a couple years ago?

The same as who Kip Wells? If so then perhaps but Franklin hadn't yet found Dave Duncan's tutelage whereas Kip has already been there and been one of the few who Duncan couldn't help.

camisadelgolf
08-28-2009, 03:57 PM
The same as who Kip Wells? If so then perhaps but Franklin hadn't yet found Dave Duncan's tutelage whereas Kip has already been there and been one of the few who Duncan couldn't help.
As a reliever, I think Kip Wells can be pretty effective. And since you bring up the Cardinals, when he pitched out of their bullpen, he did quite well.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=wellski01&year=2007&t=p#sprel

Mario-Rijo
08-28-2009, 04:18 PM
As a reliever, I think Kip Wells can be pretty effective. And since you bring up the Cardinals, when he pitched out of their bullpen, he did quite well.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=wellski01&year=2007&t=p#sprel

Too small of a sample size for my preference, only 23 IP and 8 games pitched in. He was the mop up guy sounds like.

RedsManRick
08-28-2009, 09:12 PM
What I just don't get is why people are so completely unwilling even to consider the possibility that a Wells or Lehr could contribute, probably from the pen, to this club next year. Wells' control is an issue, of course, as is Lehr's velocity. But pitchers do sometimes manage a rotation to pen transition sometimes and I've even seen a couple of successful righthanders throw no harder than Lehr. That's the last I'm saying about either of them.

Could they maybe contribute as a long man out of the pen? I guess. Does that merit a spot on the 40 man roster that would otherwise go to a prospect who might be more than the last arm in the bullpen and possible significantly more? Nope.

Give Wells all the respect you want on a person level. But when it comes to building a 25 man roster, guys like him are the definition of replaceable.

HokieRed
08-28-2009, 09:17 PM
Could they maybe contribute as a long man out of the pen? I guess. Does that merit a spot on the 40 man roster that would otherwise go to a prospect who might be more than the last arm in the bullpen and possible significantly more? Nope.

Give Wells all the respect you want on a person level. But when it comes to building a 25 man roster, guys like him are the definition of replaceable.

Frankly I don't think we've got that many guys who will be very attractive in the Rule 5 draft. I think we probably over-worry about this a lot. Sure I wouldn't want to lose somebody in order to protect Wells or Lehr. But I doubt it's really a big problem. I don't see too many unprotected guys in our system right now who really would be good bets to hold a 25 man roster spot next year for the whole year--remember that's what they've got to do. Here, as elsewhere of course, the difficulty is in the details. It has to be looked at case by case.

GIDP
08-28-2009, 10:29 PM
Its not about protecting Wells in my mind. Its about having no problem what so ever of letting him find another team to pitch on. Kip wells is to pitching that Darnell Mcdonald is to position players in my mind.

And yes he is minor league fodder at this point in his career. I have no desire to protect a guy like that. Let him resurrect his career in AAA because thats where he belongs and is likely headed.

RED VAN HOT
08-29-2009, 12:22 PM
Valiquette, Watson, and Ondrusek are headed to AZ Fall League. I think that signals an intent to protect them.

Enerio Del Rosario has moved quickly this year with an outstanding ground ball percentage. He will have good value on a team that suddenly has a tight infield.

The tough choices for me are Viola, Maloney, and Thompson. Viola has a high ceiling, but a history of inconsistency. It's becoming a question of how long the Reds want to go with him. At 26, I think he is likely not to be protected. Maloney will get the start today, probably return to the Bats for the playoffs, then get 2-3 more starts for the Reds. That could determine his status. If they don't protect them, they will be taken. The Reds might work a trade before the draft in order to get something in return. On the other hand, Maloney might show that he can keep opposing hitters in the park, putting him back in the mix as a starter next year. The issue with Thompson is health. He is still young. If a team takes him in Rule 5 that could keep him on the DL for most of the season.

In general, I see no point in protecting players like Wells, Lehr, Sutton, Richar, and even Castillo. They provide organizational depth that can be re-acquired after the draft if needed.

HokieRed
08-29-2009, 01:45 PM
It might be though that the most important principle guiding the 40 man roster is not protecting people from being taken but rather getting in place those most likely to contribute on the major league level during the year.
Note, too, Ariz. can be a place to showcase people for trading.
On Maloney, I think we'll know clearly up or down by the end of the season. My prediction is they'll certainly protect him.

Mario-Rijo
08-29-2009, 03:22 PM
They need to protect Viola he's a guy that I think has way too much going for him not to protect, he's #1 on the list for me.

RED VAN HOT
08-31-2009, 03:29 PM
Note, too, Ariz. can be a place to showcase people for trading.


The showcasing strategy is often mentioned on RZ, but I have my doubts about it as a strategy. It cuts two ways. Players can disappoint as well. IIRC, several Reds players had disappointing stats last fall. Perhaps I am naive, but I tend to believe that the Reds are using their AZFL slots on players that they believe have ML potential and can benefit from the extended play. That said, any of these players can be traded for the right return.

HokieRed
08-31-2009, 04:52 PM
The showcasing strategy is often mentioned on RZ, but I have my doubts about it as a strategy. It cuts two ways. Players can disappoint as well. IIRC, several Reds players had disappointing stats last fall. Perhaps I am naive, but I tend to believe that the Reds are using their AZFL slots on players that they believe have ML potential and can benefit from the extended play. That said, any of these players can be traded for the right return.


There's no difference between our points of view. You showcase people you think have ML potential, in the hope it will be apparent to other teams too, who'll then want them and offer you something you'd rather have.

Gallen5862
09-02-2009, 12:08 PM
Viola has been placed on the 40 man roster and called up to the Reds. Danny Richar was placed on the 60 Day DL to make room for him.

mace
09-15-2009, 11:43 PM
I suspect that a lot of these decisions will come down to choices between similar players. A quick list of possible redundancies might include these pairs (or triplets):

Nix/Dorn -- Lefty LF platoons.

Gomes/Balentien -- Righty LF platoons, although either could be more. Also McDonald, who played really well after he was sent down.

Miller/Denove/Tatum -- I wouldn't dismiss Miller out-of-hand, considering how exceptionally well he's handled the Reds' pitchers. If they sign Hernandez, I'd think that only one of these three would be protected. Without Hernandez, maybe two.

Wells/Lehr -- Over-aged starting depth.

Thompson/Buck -- Promising pitchers with injury histories.

Lecure/Jukich -- Potential #4 or #5 starters.

Sutton/Rosales -- Reserve infielders who hit better than they field. (Are supposed to, anyway.)

Stubbs/Taveras -- Obviously Stubbs will be on the 40-man, but if they think he can be an everyday CF in Cincinnati, they'd be more likely to release Taveras. Wouldn't they?

Viola/Watson -- Erratic relievers with great stuff. Philippe Valiquette might be in the grouping.

I'm sure there are others. And I imagine there are technicalities that make some of the matches irrelevant.

Mario-Rijo
09-17-2009, 02:38 AM
Valiquette, Watson, and Ondrusek are headed to AZ Fall League. I think that signals an intent to protect them.

Enerio Del Rosario has moved quickly this year with an outstanding ground ball percentage. He will have good value on a team that suddenly has a tight infield.

The tough choices for me are Viola, Maloney, and Thompson. Viola has a high ceiling, but a history of inconsistency. It's becoming a question of how long the Reds want to go with him. At 26, I think he is likely not to be protected. Maloney will get the start today, probably return to the Bats for the playoffs, then get 2-3 more starts for the Reds. That could determine his status. If they don't protect them, they will be taken. The Reds might work a trade before the draft in order to get something in return. On the other hand, Maloney might show that he can keep opposing hitters in the park, putting him back in the mix as a starter next year. The issue with Thompson is health. He is still young. If a team takes him in Rule 5 that could keep him on the DL for most of the season.

In general, I see no point in protecting players like Wells, Lehr, Sutton, Richar, and even Castillo. They provide organizational depth that can be re-acquired after the draft if needed.

Interesting point of view RVH (in the bold above) could be, it certainly would seem to indicate they would like more data in order to make a more informed decision on them at the very least. I think they end up putting Ondrusek on the 40, not Watson and Valiquette is up in the air I think. Your last paragraph I couldn't agree more with as well. Although Castillo intrigues me even though I believe he'll eventually end up only as organizational depth. Let's just say I don't think anyone has given him enough of a chance behind the plate to figure out if he can indeed cut it, he could eventually end up a decent platoon type catcher but probably not good enough to worry about holding on to.

On Viola his relative inexperience at the position (despite his age) and the way he has risen the last couple of seasons tells me it's too soon to give up on him, especially with that stuff he is the type of guy who would without a doubt get picked up. Hopefully he stays on the 40 man now that he is there. Maloney and Thompson well, I'd probably protect Maloney for at least 1 more year he has some worth to the 40 man in '10. Thompson I don't think you can protect at this point what with some other solid guys who need to be protected and his shaky future.

lollipopcurve
09-17-2009, 08:28 AM
I don't think there should be any doubt re: Viola (protect), Maloney (protect) and Thompson (let go). Viola has an excellent arm and is lefty. Maloney is a lefty starter who's still young and who can provide depth for the back of the rotation. Thompson has a bad shoulder for the 2nd time in his career -- he's likely done.

Mario-Rijo
09-18-2009, 03:34 AM
I don't think there should be any doubt re: Viola (protect), Maloney (protect) and Thompson (let go). Viola has an excellent arm and is lefty. Maloney is a lefty starter who's still young and who can provide depth for the back of the rotation. Thompson has a bad shoulder for the 2nd time in his career -- he's likely done.

Well if he is done he at least got to debut and pitch well against the NYY's, not a bad way to have done it. :thumbup:

lollipopcurve
09-18-2009, 07:00 AM
Well if he is done he at least got to debut and pitch well against the NYY's, not a bad way to have done it.

No doubt. He was a nice comeback story then, and maybe he can be again. But it'll be tough.

NNredsfan
09-18-2009, 09:32 AM
My wife and I went to that game. It was my first and only time I've been to the old Yankee stadium. It was awesome to say the least. As an aside, I met a dad and his son at a concession stand and the boy was holding a ball he got from Cueto who signed it and gave it to him during pre-game warmups. The dad (a Yankee fan) asked me if he was any good. I said yes and promptly asked if I could buy the ball from him. The kid was all for it but dad said no. I guess I should have told him he sucked.

Mario-Rijo
10-30-2009, 06:57 AM
Nice breakdown of the 40 man so I thought I'd post it here just as another resource. The way he broke it down just seems to make it a bit clearer than I have seen it. This isn't an AP piece just a post from another forum BTW.


Reds Have Some Work to Do with the 40-man Roster
by Slyde on Oct 23, 2009 8:28 AM EDT in Off-season

When the season ended, the Reds had a full 40-man roster plus 4 players on the 60-day DL who did not count toward the 40-man roster. In the next couple of weeks those 4 players (Mike Lincoln, Edinson Volquez, Wilkin Castillo, and Danny Richar) will lose their 60-day status and will have to be moved back to the 40-man or put through waivers. As far as I can tell, the only player on the roster who is a straight up free agent at the end of the season is Kip Wells. The only contract option the Reds have to consider this off-season is Ramon Hernandez's $8.5 million option, which one would think will be turned down. So, that opens up 2 roster spots, likely for Edinson Volquez and Mike Lincoln (since the Reds still owe him $2.5 million). Every other player appears to be under contract or under control because of Major League service time So, what do they do with the remaining two players, Castillo and Richar?

Before we figure that out, let's throw another wrench into the mess: The Rule 5 Draft. The Reds have several players in the minors who could be available for the Rule 5 Draft in December if they are not protected on the 40-man roster before the end of November. According to Wikipedia, here are the rules for eligibility:


Players are eligible for selection in the Rule 5 draft who are not on their major league organization's forty man roster and:

- were signed at age 19 or older and have been in the organization for four years; or

- were signed at age 18 or younger and have been in the organization for five years.

Basically, this means that any players that were drafted or signed at the age of 19 or older in 2006 are eligible for the draft, and anyone younger than that must have been signed in 2005 or earlier. Who does that give us?

Well, the list of eligible players in the organization is actually quite long, but not every player is at risk of being drafted because of their skill or performance (remember, rule 5 draftees have to stay on the MLB roster for the entire season). Some of the names though are obvious keepers. Chris Heisey, Chris Valaika, and Travis Wood will likely be protected because of their prospect status. There are a couple of other names that could potentially get drafted if the Reds don't protect them as well. Someone like Daniel Dorn may have enough pop in his bat to sit on a team's bench all year as a left-handed pinch hitter. Enerio Del Rosario moved up 3 levels last year and posted a 1.68 ERA for the season. He's not really a power pitcher, which is typically the type of pitcher that gets drafted in the rule 5, but his control was outstanding last year and that may draw some eyes his way.

The Reds can't protect everyone, so they are going to have to make some choices. There is little doubt for me that they will find spots for Heisey, Valaika, and Wood. The question is, do they hold on to Castillo and Richar? Will they feel it necessary to protect any other minor leaguers such as Dorn or Del Rosario? And who do they drop? I'll put the 40-man roster after the jump. Let's hear who you think should stay and who should clear out some space.


Reds Current 40-man roster

Bronson Arroyo
Homer Bailey
Bill Bray
Jared Burton
Francisco Cordero
Johnny Cueto
Carlos Fisher
Aaron Harang
Daniel Ray Herrera
Sam LeCure
Justin Lehr
Mike Lincoln**
Matt Maloney
Nick Masset
Micah Owings
Ramon Ramirez
Arthur Rhodes
Daryl Thompson
Pedro Viola
Edinson Volquez **
Kip Wells#

Wilkin Castillo **
Ryan Hanigan
Ramon Hernandez #
Corky Miller
Craig Tatum

Yonder Alonso
Kevin Barker
Juan Francisco
Paul Janish
Brandon Phillips
Danny Richar **
Scott Rolen Adam Rosales
Drew Sutton
Joey Votto

Wladimir Balentien
Jay Bruce
Chris Dickerson
Jonny Gomes
Darnell McDonald
Laynce Nix
Drew Stubbs
Willy Taveras

#-Free Agent; **-60-day DL

RED VAN HOT
10-30-2009, 12:46 PM
Given his success with Bailey and LeCure, it may be better to retain Lehr as a pitching coach. I wonder if that played into the decision to go younger with the ML pitching coach?

Other than that, there are still a lot of unknowns. Has Bray or Lincoln thrown? If so, how did they look? Is Castillo really a catcher? If so, his versatility may save another roster spot on the 25. Are Heisey, Valaika, Wood, Dorn, and Del Rosario the only prospects that must be protected? Ondrusek?

If the problem is no worse than this, I believe I could find enough names on the current 40 to enable me to protect all of them.

HokieRed
10-30-2009, 12:49 PM
I'd add Valaika to the list of questions. I'd certainly protect Dorn first.

Kc61
10-30-2009, 01:33 PM
I'd add Valaika to the list of questions. I'd certainly protect Dorn first.

No way the Reds would risk losing Valaika. He's a highly touted prospect and, if necessary, a team could draft him and keep him as the 25th man for a year. Or could stash him on the DL. No way the Reds leave Valaika unprotected.

Dorn probably gets protected because he could be drafted as a pinch hitter by somebody. But Reds could expose him. It's possible the Reds view Dorn strictly as a backup player and could take the risk of losing him.

HokieRed
10-30-2009, 01:42 PM
Valaika had a .615 OPS last year at AAA as a 24 year old. He was injured, and that's certainly a factor, but he did have 366 AB's. He doesn't project as a SS, he's certainly not going to displace Phillips at 2b or Rolen (and the other 3b's we have) at 3b. So what's his future with the organization? Looks to me like another utility player, one with AAA stats that are miles behind those put up by Rosales and Sutton (I actually think he'll probably be a better player than Rosales). In the best of all possible worlds, of course you'd protect him, but remember that protecting Valaika means not protecting somebody else. So, for me, he remains a question. I don't see that he'd be a compelling pick for another club.

icehole3
10-30-2009, 02:51 PM
they could take these guys off and I wouldnt bat an eye, I know they wont take them all off, just saying

Miller
Hernandez
Castillo
Barker
Richar
Balentien
Nix
Taveras
Wells
Thompson
Lincoln

Mario-Rijo
10-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Valaika had a .615 OPS last year at AAA as a 24 year old. He was injured, and that's certainly a factor, but he did have 366 AB's. He doesn't project as a SS, he's certainly not going to displace Phillips at 2b or Rolen (and the other 3b's we have) at 3b. So what's his future with the organization? Looks to me like another utility player, one with AAA stats that are miles behind those put up by Rosales and Sutton (I actually think he'll probably be a better player than Rosales). In the best of all possible worlds, of course you'd protect him, but remember that protecting Valaika means not protecting somebody else. So, for me, he remains a question. I don't see that he'd be a compelling pick for another club.

I think cherry picking one season where he got off to a slow start at a new level, missed significant time with an injury and then having to come back and start all over again with possible effects from said injury and calling that indicative is just wrong. The guy deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to hitting at least and he was 23 this past season BTW. Comparing him to 2 older guys in Sutton (26) and Rosales (26) isn't quite fair as neither of them are the natural hitter he is despite the fact that they have strengths of their own. He will bounce back next year and be better than ever IMO but despite that he has done well enough to protect.

HokieRed
10-30-2009, 05:11 PM
I think cherry picking one season where he got off to a slow start at a new level, missed significant time with an injury and then having to come back and start all over again with possible effects from said injury and calling that indicative is just wrong. The guy deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to hitting at least and he was 23 this past season BTW. Comparing him to 2 older guys in Sutton (26) and Rosales (26) isn't quite fair as neither of them are the natural hitter he is despite the fact that they have strengths of their own. He will bounce back next year and be better than ever IMO but despite that he has done well enough to protect.


First of all Valaika's birthday is given as Aug, 1985, so he was 24 this year. Second, I don't see how you can describe as "cherry picking" looking at his most recent season at the highest level he's played: that's what GM's are going to be looking at when they evaluate whether they are going to take him in the rule 5 draft. Third, I didn't compare him to Sutton and Rosales, except to say I thought he'd be better than Rosales. The point is simply that those are guys whose AAA stats are a lot better than Valaika's and we've seen how they've fared in the major leagues. I like Valaika fine and think he'll be a decent utility player in the major leagues--if he doesn't get taken in the Rule 5 draft this year (which will result in his sitting on some major league bench when, as should be clear to every GM, he needs at least another full season at AAA). I repeat the question is not simply whether he's good enough to protect: it's who do you expose in order to protect a guy whose likely ceiling is that of a utility player.

RED VAN HOT
10-30-2009, 05:33 PM
they could take these guys off and I wouldnt bat an eye, I know they wont take them all off, just saying

Miller
Hernandez
Castillo
Barker
Richar
Balentien
Nix
Taveras
Wells
Thompson
Lincoln

For the most part, I agree. Balentien seems to have potential, but carries the liability that he must stay on the 25 for the Reds. Unless I am missing something, I don't see the dilemma.

I need some help from someone more familiar with the rules. Can the Reds refuse the option of Hernandez, drop him from the 40, then re-sign him in January? Or, are they prohibited from negotiating with him until May?

Mario-Rijo
10-30-2009, 05:36 PM
First of all Valaika's birthday is given as Aug, 1985, so he was 24 this year. Second, I don't see how you can describe as "cherry picking" looking at his most recent season at the highest level he's played: that's what GM's are going to be looking at when they evaluate whether they are going to take him in the rule 5 draft. Third, I didn't compare him to Sutton and Rosales, except to say I thought he'd be better than Rosales. The point is simply that those are guys whose AAA stats are a lot better than Valaika's and we've seen how they've fared in the major leagues. I like Valaika fine and think he'll be a decent utility player in the major leagues--if he doesn't get taken in the Rule 5 draft this year (which will result in his sitting on some major league bench when, as should be clear to every GM, he needs at least another full season at AAA). I repeat the question is not simply whether he's good enough to protect: it's who do you expose in order to protect a guy whose likely ceiling is that of a utility player.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree on the age issue as he spent most of this season as a 23 year old and he will spend most most all of next season as a 24 year old. In the minors it's important to make the distinction on age. Especially the age 24 because a lot of guys have a power increase at the age of 24. And GM's will also look at scouting reports, previous years and injury history and determine that here's a guy who they should give some serious consideration for drafting. He's a talented kid with the bat who is not a defensive black hole and as he ages his power and discipline will improve. Perhaps he's not the ideal 2B due to a lack of above average range but he's currently got more value than a host of players currently residing on the 40 man. I think he's a decent eventual starting 2B who's offensive prowess has yet to peak.

Oh and to answer your question your acting as if his recent season concluded something about him and I doubt anyone makes that stretch.

Mario-Rijo
10-30-2009, 05:38 PM
For the most part, I agree. Balentien seems to have potential, but carries the liability that he must stay on the 25 for the Reds. Unless I am missing something, I don't see the dilemma.

I need some help from someone more familiar with the rules. Can the Reds refuse the option of Hernandez, drop him from the 40, then re-sign him in January? Or, are they prohibited from negotiating with him until May?

I believe that rule about prohibiting them until May has been changed/dropped. So yes they should be able to re-sign him in January.

HokieRed
10-30-2009, 10:30 PM
On Valaika's age, I think it's a pretty generally accepted convention that if a player turns 24 during the season, then that is regarded as his 24 year old season. Maybe Doug will weigh in on that. I never concluded anything about Valaika based on his 2009 performance. The question at hand is whether he's likely to be taken by a major league GM for a spot on some team's 25 man roster in 2010. Seems to me obvious the most relevant information for that is what he did in 2009 and at AAA. I think RZers generally underestimate the quality of the players available in the Rule 5 draft; there are usually quite a lot of decent ones, but what teams are really looking for are possibly difference making arms. It seems to me pretty hard to project Valaika as a useful member of a 25 man roster for 2010.

mth123
10-31-2009, 05:55 AM
On Valaika's age, I think it's a pretty generally accepted convention that if a player turns 24 during the season, then that is regarded as his 24 year old season. Maybe Doug will weigh in on that. I never concluded anything about Valaika based on his 2009 performance. The question at hand is whether he's likely to be taken by a major league GM for a spot on some team's 25 man roster in 2010. Seems to me obvious the most relevant information for that is what he did in 2009 and at AAA. I think RZers generally underestimate the quality of the players available in the Rule 5 draft; there are usually quite a lot of decent ones, but what teams are really looking for are possibly difference making arms. It seems to me pretty hard to project Valaika as a useful member of a 25 man roster for 2010.

I think teams looking to add talent to the organization would take a guy like Valaika. The Padres and the Pirates are two teams that I could see going after him. The Royals and maybe the Marlins as well. If teams think that Valaika could play 2B, 3B and fill in at SS once in a while, I think he'd be in demand. Teams are always looking for guys that can hit a little that can play up the middle. Some team like SD could give him a shot in spring training, stash him on the DL, let him get 100 or so AAA PAs in a rehab appearance and then re-evaluate in June. By then, they are probably an obvious out of the race sell 'em off and go with kids team and could let him play. These types of teams probably don't worry so much about the keep him on the roster rule as you would think. If they think a kid can be a player for them at a spot where they are thin, they will make it work. The big if with Valaika IMO is whether evaluators really believe he can play 2B and SS even on a spot basis. Its really the difference between him being a major leaguer and a career minor leaguer IMO. I think he can be a multi-position guy like that with enough bat to contribute.

Gallen5862
11-06-2009, 04:26 PM
CINCINNATI -- The Reds want catcher Ramon Hernandez to return for 2010, but not for the $8.5 million figure his club option calls for.

"We're not going to pick up the option," Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said on Friday. "We have been talking with his agent and trying to negotiate a new deal. We're hoping he comes back."

The buyout for the Hernandez option is $1 million. Acquired last winter from the Orioles in a trade for utility player Ryan Freel and two prospects, Hernandez batted .258 with five home runs and 37 RBIs in 81 games. Only July 21, Hernandez had arthroscopic surgery to clean out his left knee and he missed 57 games. He also made 21 starts in place of Joey Votto at first base.

Should he not return to Cincinnati at a reduced price and hit the open market, Hernandez is rated a Type B free agent by Elias. If he is offered arbitration, it would mean the Reds would receive a first-round sandwich pick in the 2010 Draft as compensation.

Without Hernandez, the Reds would likely have Ryan Hanigan as the primary catcher. While Hanigan is better defensively than Hernandez, they would probably want someone that can bring more offense.

In other roster moves, the Reds sent backup catcher Corky Miller and reserve outfielder Darnell McDonald outright to Triple-A Louisville. In 21 games for the Reds, Miller hit .179, but was a strong presence behind the plate. Reds pitchers were 13-5 with a 3.02 ERA when he caught.

McDonald batted .267 in 47 games over two big league stints in 2009, but hit .323 (21-for-65) after his second callup on Aug. 25. Both Miller and McDonald could return to the team under Minor League deals. If the Reds didn't retain Hernandez or land another catcher, Miller would have a strong shot at the backup catcher's job next season. The light-hitting Craig Tatum is the only other catcher on the Reds' 40-man roster.

"The hope is we can get them re-signed for next year," Jocketty said of Miller and McDonald. "We needed space on the roster because we have so many guys to protect."

The Reds' 40-man roster currently stands at 37 players with three more on the 60-day disabled list.

The Reds are still looking around for a regular shortstop but can cross J.J. Hardy off their list. Hardy, who was dealt from the Brewers to the Twins for center fielder Carlos Gomez, was on the Cincinnati radar.

"We talked to [the Brewers] several times," Jocketty said. "We didn't match up and they didn't want to trade within our division, which was understandable."

Jocketty also said the Reds have talked to the agents for arbitration-eligible outfielders Jonny Gomes and Laynce Nix. Teams have a Dec. 12 deadline to tender contracts but with the Reds trying to hold the line on payroll, it's not a lock either player will be offered arbitration.

"We've talked a little bit," Jocketty said of negotiations with Gomes and Nix.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...=.jsp&c_id=cin

Gallen5862
11-06-2009, 05:44 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/




Danny Richar, Kevin Barker Become Free Agents

By Tim Dierkes [November 6 at 3:24pm CST]
Danny Richar and Kevin Barker elected free agency after being outrighted by the Reds, according to C. Trent Rosecrans (via Twitter).* The Reds also outrighted pitcher Justin Lehr, but signed him for 2010.Richar, 26, hit .290/.330/.438 in 181 Triple A plate appearances this year.* The second baseman had labrum surgery in July.* He came to the Reds from the White*Sox*last July with Nick Masset in the Ken Griffey Jr. trade.* Barker, a 34-year-old first baseman, hit .285/.376/.551 with 22 home runs in 417 Triple A plate appearances this year.Full Story*|* Comments (1)*|*Categories: Cincinnati Reds | Danny Richar

Gallen5862
11-06-2009, 05:51 PM
I am glad to see Justin Lehr is off the 40 man roster but resigned. I wonder if it was a minor league deal with a spring training invitation.

mace
11-06-2009, 06:09 PM
I am glad to see Justin Lehr is off the 40 man roster but resigned. I wonder if it was a minor league deal with a spring training invitation.

I'm extremely glad to see that. I'd really hate to lose Lehr, based on his off-the-charts intangibles (not to mention his production), but understand also that it would have been hard to save him a spot on the 40-man. This is an outstanding outcome.

dougdirt
11-06-2009, 06:10 PM
I am glad to see Justin Lehr is off the 40 man roster but resigned. I wonder if it was a minor league deal with a spring training invitation.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2009/11/06/transactions/


From Fay:
RHP Justin Lehr was signed to a 1-year Major League contract through the 2010 season and then was outrighted to Louisville.

Gallen5862
11-06-2009, 06:47 PM
Thanks for the contract updade Doug.

Mario-Rijo
11-06-2009, 09:12 PM
40 man roster as of now:

Lead Pipe Locks not to be taken off (IMO, unless traded)
Arroyo
Bailey
Cordero
Cueto
Fisher
Harang
Herrera
Masset
Owings
Rhodes
Volquez (who will have to be added at some point soon)

Hanigan

Alonso
Francisco
Phillips
Rolen
Votto

Bruce
Dickerson
Stubbs
Total 20

Most likely to be kept on but debatable
Bray
Burton
LeCure
Maloney
Ramirez
Viola

Tatum

Janish
Rosales
Sutton

Balentein
Gomes
Total 12
Grand total 32

Most likely not to stay on for one reason or another
Thompson

Castillo

Nix
Total 3
Grand total 35

Need cut or dealt
Lincoln
Taveras
Grand total 37

Already FA's with a chance to return to 40
Wells
Hernandez

Current total 37
Potential total 39


Potentially needs protecting
Chris Heisey
Travis Wood
Chris Valaika
Del Rosario
Logan Ondrusek
Pedro Viola
Phillipe Valiquette
Chris Denove
Total 8

Could be but for one reason or another I don't think they will be protected
Danny Dorn
Jordan Smith
Sean Watson
Ben Jukich
Miguel Rojas
Total 5
Grand total 13

Am I missing anyone???

mth123
11-07-2009, 07:25 AM
Barring a deal, this is how I expect it to shake out:




Pitchers (22)
1 Aaron Harang
2 Bronson Arroyo
3 Edinson Volquez
4 Micah Owings
5 Johnny Cueto
6 Ramon Ramirez
7 Francisco Cordero
8 Jared Burton
9 Nick Masset
10 Pedro Viola
11 Bill Bray
12 Danny Rae Herrera
13 Carlos Fisher
14 Logan Ondrusek
15 Homer Bailey
16 Arthur Lee Rhodes
17 Matt Maloney
18 Sam Lecure
19 Travis Wood
20 Phil Valiquette
21 Jordan Smith
22 Enerio Del Rosario

Catchers (2)
23 Ryan Hanigan
24 Wilkin Castillo

Infielders (8)
25 Adam Rosales
26 Drew Sutton
27 Joey Votto
28 Brandon Phillips
29 Scott Rolen
30 Yonder Alonso
31 Paul Janish
32 Chris Valaika

Outfielders (8)
33 Drew Stubbs
34 Wladimir Balentien
35 Jay Bruce
36 Chris Dickerson
37 Johnny Gomes
38 Danny Dorn
39 Chris Heisey
40 Juan Francisco

Free Agents
Kip Wells, Ramon Hernandez, Danny Richar, Kevin Barker

Release Waivers
Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln, Laynce Nix

Reassigned to the Minors and Exposed to Rule 5
Daryl Thompson, Craig Tatum. Justin Lehr, Corky Miller, Darnell McDonald

Not Protected and Exposed to Rule 5
Sean Watson. Ben Jukich. Chris Denove, Sean Henry, James Avery, Alex Smit
Dallas Buck, Derrick Lutz, Lee Tabor, Kris Negron, Logan Parker,
Travis Webb, Leo Astorga, Wes Bankston, Ruben Medina, Luis Montano

HokieRed
11-07-2009, 10:11 AM
I'd guess that's very close, mth. Some places I think there might be questions.

1. What do we know about Mike Lincoln's status? Has he recovered? Is he throwing? Do they project him ready for spring training? I'm no big fan of his but he was a useful member of the bullpen in 2008. If he's healthy, he seems a lot more likely to contribute to the club in 2010 than Bray, Ondrusek, del Rosario, Valiquette, Lecure, or Smith [possibly even Burton]. I wish we knew more. Maybe Doug does.

2. I notice your [mth's] 40 doesn't leave any room for an acquisition. Do we have to go in with no more than 39 if we've any idea of making an acquisition in the Rule 5?

3. Who's most likely to be taken away from us if mth has the 40? My guess would be Jukich.

4. Here's a question that will probably irritate many RZers but it seems to me reasonable. If the roster's being constructed with an eye toward the best team for 2010, is it really the case that neither Kip Wells nor Darnell McDonald is likely to contribute more than any of a half dozen names on the list? [What, for instance, is the real possibility that Sam Lecure will ever be as good a pitcher as Kip Wells, even with all of Wells' problems?]

mth123
11-07-2009, 10:38 AM
I'd guess that's very close, mth. Some places I think there might be questions.

1. What do we know about Mike Lincoln's status? Has he recovered? Is he throwing? Do they project him ready for spring training? I'm no big fan of his but he was a useful member of the bullpen in 2008. If he's healthy, he seems a lot more likely to contribute to the club in 2010 than Bray, Ondrusek, del Rosario, Valiquette, Lecure, or Smith [possibly even Burton]. I wish we knew more. Maybe Doug does.

2. I notice your [mth's] 40 doesn't leave any room for an acquisition. Do we have to go in with no more than 39 if we've any idea of making an acquisition in the Rule 5?

3. Who's most likely to be taken away from us if mth has the 40? My guess would be Jukich.

4. Here's a question that will probably irritate many RZers but it seems to me reasonable. If the roster's being constructed with an eye toward the best team for 2010, is it really the case that neither Kip Wells nor Darnell McDonald is likely to contribute more than any of a half dozen names on the list? [What, for instance, is the real possibility that Sam Lecure will ever be as good a pitcher as Kip Wells, even with all of Wells' problems?]

1. Not sure about Lincoln, but I'd rather have Fisher or Ramirez on the roster.

2. I'm hoping for a trade or two that frees up room and addesses some problems, but assuming none, I'd guess the Reds will try to protect their own rather than lock themselves into a guy they have to keep on the roster.

3. I'd say some team with a rock solid starting catcher may try to save some money and take Miller, Tatum or Denove. The Reds need a 100 game starter to pair with Hanigan and that isn't either Tatum or Denove, but either could be a nice 40 game per year back-up.

4. Wells is a free agent so he won't be on the roster unless he's signed by Nov 20. I'd personally cut Lecure loose and protect Denove instead, but I think the Reds will keep Lecure around.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2009, 11:22 AM
1. Not sure about Lincoln, but I'd rather have Fisher or Ramirez on the roster.

2. I'm hoping for a trade or two that frees up room and addesses some problems, but assuming none, I'd guess the Reds will try to protect their own rather than lock themselves into a guy they have to keep on the roster.

3. I'd say some team with a rock solid starting catcher may try to save some money and take Miller, Tatum or Denove. The Reds need a 100 game starter to pair with Hanigan and that isn't either Tatum or Denove, but either could be a nice 40 game per year back-up.

4. Wells is a free agent so he won't be on the roster unless he's signed by Nov 20. I'd personally cut Lecure loose and protect Denove instead, but I think the Reds will keep Lecure around.

I'd probably protect Denove and let Castillo ride, his injury may very well keep him protected. And of course I like Lutz so I'd keep him and let Sutton blow in the wind.

Guacarock
11-07-2009, 11:26 AM
mth, your 40-man roster looks mighty close to what I envision happening, except I see the Reds protecting Denove and exposing Castillo, and I also see Jukich being protected. How? Some small deal gets done before Nov. 20 involving some other pitcher on the bubble, most likely Bray, Fisher or Lecure, but possibly someone like Owings if the team feels comfortable slotting Ramirez, Lehr or Maloney as the long man in the bullpen.

mth123
11-07-2009, 11:29 AM
I'd probably protect Denove and let Castillo ride, his injury may very well keep him protected. And of course I like Lutz so I'd keep him and let Sutton blow in the wind.

I'm not optimistic about Castillo, but he was highly regarded in AZ system before the Dunn trade and since Walt traded for him, Dusty seems to like him and he's a versatile switch hitter who could likely get picked and easily be kept on by the picking team as a 25th man it makes more sense to protect him. The drawback for the Reds is that they need him to be a catcher who can start 80 plus times per year and I'm not optimistic, but as a end of the bench multi-position guy who also switch hits he can be useful enough that a team taking him in rule 5 wouldn't have much trouble keeping him on the roster.

Mario-Rijo
11-07-2009, 11:35 AM
I'm not optimistic about Castillo, but he was highly regarded in AZ system before the Dunn trade and since Walt traded for him, Dusty seems to like him and he's a versatile switch hitter who could likely get picked and easily be kept on by the picking team as a 25th man it makes more sense to protect him. The drawback for the Reds is that they need him to be a catcher who can start 80 plus times per year and I'm not optimistic, but as a end of the bench multi-position guy who also switch hits he can be useful enough that a team taking him in rule 5 wouldn't have much trouble keeping him on the roster.

How optimistic would a team have to be to take a blind shot in the dark on a catcher with a recently torn labrum? Anything is possible but like you say they need him to be something that only Dusty might see a future in.

mth123
11-07-2009, 03:12 PM
How optimistic would a team have to be to take a blind shot in the dark on a catcher with a recently torn labrum? Anything is possible but like you say they need him to be something that only Dusty might see a future in.

Point is a team taking him would view him as a multi-position guy who can catch and switch hit and that is kind of easy for a team to claim in rule 5 and keep on the roster since he doesn't really hurt your overall positional coverage. He can be an OF, 2B, 3B and C while hitting from both sides of the plate. Teams could and will do worse for a 25th man. Meanwhile, you wait him out and see if whatever it is that made him the number 4 prospect in a decent AZ system ever emerges. Other than a power arm that can be hidden as a mop-up man, he seems to be the kind of guy almost made for rule 5.

HokieRed
11-07-2009, 05:31 PM
But is Castillo going to be a good enough 25th man for a good team with a chance to contend and plenty of money to spend on an established, useful guy? And is he ever going to be enough of a difference maker to be taken by one of the weaker teams--a team like the Reds, for instance? Would we take him if he were being exposed by another team. I doubt it, which is also why I think there's really only the slimmest chance we lose anything of much value in the Rule 5, provided we protect the projectable arms.

redsof72
11-09-2009, 04:25 PM
Surprising to me, the Reds took Ramon Ramirez off the roster today and he did not make it through waivers. He was claimed by Tampa Bay. Castillo also taken off the 40-man but signed to a minor league deal. McDonald elected free agency, could still be re-signed. He will get a pretty good minor league deal financially.

dougdirt
11-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Surprising to me, the Reds took Ramon Ramirez off the roster today and he did not make it through waivers. He was claimed by Tampa Bay. Castillo also taken off the 40-man but signed to a minor league deal. McDonald elected free agency, could still be re-signed. He will get a pretty good minor league deal financially.

Surprising that they tried to get him through waivers or that he was taken?

redsof72
11-09-2009, 04:55 PM
I was surprised that they tried to get him through waivers. Still more moves to come, but I would have expected Thompson and Lincoln to be removed from the 40-man and maybe LeCure among the pitchers before I would have expected Ramirez. Among the position players, perhaps Drew Sutton or Adam Rosales before Ramirez. They used Ramirez in some fairly key situations late in the season and he showed promise (Tampa Bay must have thought so). I am guessing one or two more players come off the roster and Wells goes into free agency. If they re-sign Hernandez and Gomes, you will have about six open spots for the likes of Wood, Heisey, Valaika, Ondrusek, Valiquette, Del Rosario, Jordan Smith, etc.

lollipopcurve
11-09-2009, 04:57 PM
I was surprised that they tried to get him through waivers. Still more moves to come, but I would have expected Thompson and Lincoln to be removed from the 40-man and maybe LeCure among the pitchers before I would have expected Ramirez. Among the position players, perhaps Drew Sutton or Adam Rosales before Ramirez. They used Ramirez in some fairly key situations late in the season and he showed promise (Tampa Bay must have thought so). I am guessing one or two more players come off the roster and Wells goes into free agency. If they re-sign Hernandez and Gomes, you will have about six open spots for the likes of Wood, Heisey, Valaika, Ondrusek, Valiquette, Del Rosario, Jordan Smith, etc.

Agreed. Poor move, in my opinion. There are lesser guys, some injured, still on the roster.

redsof72
11-09-2009, 05:05 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't think the Reds are as high on Dorn as some would suggest here. We will find out soon enough if I am wrong or others are wrong. Based on what I have heard, I just don't think they feel he can play any position defensively at an adequate level by big league standards.

dougdirt
11-09-2009, 05:07 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't think the Reds are as high on Dorn as some would suggest here. We will find out soon enough if I am wrong or others are wrong. Based on what I have heard, I just don't think they feel he can play any position defensively at an adequate level by big league standards.

That is what I hear as well, but I just don't buy into that the way that they do. If the Reds don't protect him I would be flat out shocked if someone didn't take him.

camisadelgolf
11-09-2009, 07:24 PM
If Dorn isn't protected, some of the Reds' personnel needs to be fired imo. If the Reds don't like him, the least they could do is put him on the 40-man roster and trade him away for something worth more than the $50,000 they would get when they lose him in the rule five draft.

RED VAN HOT
11-09-2009, 07:37 PM
I hope they protect Dorn as well. I always saw him as a platoon left fielder and pinch hitter. With his power he would surely be taken in Rule 5.

If there is one sure thing about the direction of the organization, it is that they are unwilling to sacrifice defense for offense. Apparently, this holds for LF as well. I don't think other clubs necessarily see things that way. Even if the Reds do not like his defense, it seems wise to me to incur the cost of protecting him, hope that he can put up good power numbers next year, and include him in a trade.

HokieRed
11-09-2009, 07:50 PM
I'd certainly protect Dorn; I think he will be taken; I'd protect him, if necessary, before Valaika, who's, IMHO, a lot less likely to be taken. I'm a little surprised about Ramirez but maybe a little pleased they've not dropped the obvious guy Thompson. That they have not perhaps suggests they expect a decentish recovery from him. If they still project him as a potential starter, that could account for his being held rather than Ramirez.

_Sir_Charles_
11-09-2009, 09:14 PM
Surprising to me, the Reds took Ramon Ramirez off the roster today and he did not make it through waivers. He was claimed by Tampa Bay. Castillo also taken off the 40-man but signed to a minor league deal. McDonald elected free agency, could still be re-signed. He will get a pretty good minor league deal financially.

Just out of curiosity, where did you find out about this? MLB.com doesn't have it and neither does Reds.com. I'm assuming there's some site out there with fast updates that I'm not aware of.

~edit~ It was Fay, right? Just saw it.

redsof72
11-10-2009, 09:47 AM
I am not taking a position on Dorn because I have not seen him play. But I have been told by some key people with the Reds that they moved him to first base last spring, not because he could play there, but because they were trying to find some place he COULD play.

Triple-A rosters are filled with guys who hit much better than Dorn has but get stuck in Triple-A because the big league manager does not trust him defensively. A guy like Jon Knott averaged 28 homers a year for four straight years and got 17 big league at-bats because he could not be trusted in the field. There are lots of Brian Buchannon, Kevin Witt types. But when the manager dips down to Triple-A to find someone, he calls up Dewayne Wise or Darnell McDonald.

If you are going to play defense like Adam Dunn, you better hit like Adam Dunn. Because every time a ball lands on the warning track that a decent outfielder would have caught, which happens all the time, the manager starts second guessing himself, he starts hearing it from the pitchers and the pitching coach, and GM starts hearing it from the pitchers' agents. If the guy is winning games with his bat, it is another story. But he better be doing a lot of hitting. Even guys like Gomes and Nix, while not gold glovers, do have at least adequate range and overall defensive skills.

If Dorn had no range in the field and can't run the bases, he can still play in the big leagues, but there is a narrow profile he has to fit and it includes a lot of offense.

I can tell you first hand in Dayton this year, the Dragons season often was a product of outfield defense. When Sappelt, Means, and Chapman were out there, nothing fell in. When those guys were gone, lets just say the infielders got a lot of chances to work on relay throws.

mace
11-10-2009, 10:44 AM
Speaking of Means . . . He hasn't been a factor on our top-40 lists, as I recall. But by all accounts, he's a tremendous athlete. For those of you who have seen him quite a bit (Doug, 72, etc.): Do you think he should be considered at some point?

redsof72
11-10-2009, 10:56 AM
I don't think he has really shown anything yet one way or the other to give you much to go on due to the football overlap. I think 2010 is a big year for Means as far as proving what he can or can't do. He was by far the fastest Dayton player in 2009 and had many infield hits similar to what Stubbs did in Cincinnati where the infielder just underestimated his speed. Means was 19 for 19 on the bases in 53 games. He has a very impressive physical build but does not hit for much power. I watched him closely and thought his wrists, hands, and forearms were so thick from his football conditioning that he had no flexibility as far as generating any leverage from his wrists in his swing. He swung with a very stiff motion. Hopefully, by getting into baseball shape, that will change. Plus, he was playing hurt for a lot of the time he was here and eventually they shut him down. If he had been healthy, might have been different. Excellent tools guy. Good center fielder, good arm. Good kid. He is a wildcard, kind of like a Duran. Just too early to know what to expect even though his age would say otherwise. He won't be on the Baseball America top 30 but he might show up on the organizational depth chart along with guys like Puckett, Mendez, and Wiley who miss the top 30 but are worth watching.

lollipopcurve
11-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Redsof72, have any thoughts on Sappelt? I think he may be a little underrated as a prospect at this point -- his performance in high A in his first full year was pretty strong. You like him as a prospect?

mace
11-10-2009, 11:28 AM
I'm sure 72 will answer, but in the event that he's indisposed for a while . . . I seem to recall that he wrote about Sappelt during the summer and was unimpressed by the way he plays the game. A whole lot of baserunning errors, etc. If I'm not mistaken, the overall impression was that he was less than the sum of his numbers. I believe that reports are good on his defense, however.

Mario-Rijo
11-10-2009, 12:30 PM
I am not taking a position on Dorn because I have not seen him play. But I have been told by some key people with the Reds that they moved him to first base last spring, not because he could play there, but because they were trying to find some place he COULD play.

Triple-A rosters are filled with guys who hit much better than Dorn has but get stuck in Triple-A because the big league manager does not trust him defensively. A guy like Jon Knott averaged 28 homers a year for four straight years and got 17 big league at-bats because he could not be trusted in the field. There are lots of Brian Buchannon, Kevin Witt types. But when the manager dips down to Triple-A to find someone, he calls up Dewayne Wise or Darnell McDonald.

If you are going to play defense like Adam Dunn, you better hit like Adam Dunn. Because every time a ball lands on the warning track that a decent outfielder would have caught, which happens all the time, the manager starts second guessing himself, he starts hearing it from the pitchers and the pitching coach, and GM starts hearing it from the pitchers' agents. If the guy is winning games with his bat, it is another story. But he better be doing a lot of hitting. Even guys like Gomes and Nix, while not gold glovers, do have at least adequate range and overall defensive skills.

If Dorn had no range in the field and can't run the bases, he can still play in the big leagues, but there is a narrow profile he has to fit and it includes a lot of offense.

I can tell you first hand in Dayton this year, the Dragons season often was a product of outfield defense. When Sappelt, Means, and Chapman were out there, nothing fell in. When those guys were gone, lets just say the infielders got a lot of chances to work on relay throws.

A bit off your topic but I noticed you included Nix which surprised me I thought he was a well above average defender in LF probably a solid RF and could play CF in a pinch. I thought he was better than anyone we had in LF specifically, at least when healthy. Just wondered if you felt the opposite?

redsof72
11-10-2009, 04:21 PM
I did not mean to undercut Nix at all. I just meant to say he gets the job done.

I am not a Sappelt fan. He has two major things going for him, both related to athletic ability. First, he has tremendous range in center field. He will catch balls that few outfielders will get close to. Unfortunately, his arm is so weak that you could not play him in center in the big leagues. He would have to play left. Second, as a base runner, he has tremendous accceleration. He can get to top speed in an instant. Unfortunately, he is not a good base stealer in terms of getting good jumps. And when it comes to understanding game situations and knowing the risk/reward of trying to take a base, he is lost, maybe the worst I have ever seen. You might see Sappelt thrown out trying to steal third in the ninth inning, down by three runs. He just has no understanding or thought process whatsoever of what he is doing on the bases other than to just run every time he can. He had 26 steals and was caught 11 times. Many of the 26 steals came in situations where he was just running to build the stats, like a blow-out game when the opponent was basically conceding the base. I did not like his make-up.

As a hitter, where are you gonna put him in the order. He started out in the lead-off spot, but his .322 OBP did not give you much there. They tried moving him down to the middle of the order but a .392 SLP was not anything to write home about. He is probably an eight hole hitter. And here was the most telling thing: look at how he hit in critical situations, those times when the games were won or lost, when the opposing pitcher is really bearing down and is going to battle you hard and give you the best he has. Sappelt hit .192 with runners in scoring position and when you focus in to runners in scoring position with two outs (the most important situation in baseball because you either drive in runs or end a rally), he hit just .135.

He has some talent, no doubt, but he was not the player I hoped he would be.

icehole3
11-10-2009, 04:44 PM
Means stats makes Sappelt look like an all star (9 walks - 42 Ks) thats almost Francisco like

dougdirt
11-10-2009, 04:57 PM
Means stats makes Sappelt look like an all star (9 walks - 42 Ks) thats almost Francisco like

Francisco was actually better this year than that.

icehole3
11-10-2009, 05:53 PM
not to mention what Sappelt did in the FSL which zaps most players stats, he put up some decent numbers, look I'll take any kid thats taking care of business in the FSL

lollipopcurve
11-10-2009, 06:27 PM
I am not a Sappelt fan. He has two major things going for him, both related to athletic ability. First, he has tremendous range in center field. He will catch balls that few outfielders will get close to. Unfortunately, his arm is so weak that you could not play him in center in the big leagues. He would have to play left. Second, as a base runner, he has tremendous accceleration. He can get to top speed in an instant. Unfortunately, he is not a good base stealer in terms of getting good jumps. And when it comes to understanding game situations and knowing the risk/reward of trying to take a base, he is lost, maybe the worst I have ever seen. You might see Sappelt thrown out trying to steal third in the ninth inning, down by three runs. He just has no understanding or thought process whatsoever of what he is doing on the bases other than to just run every time he can. He had 26 steals and was caught 11 times. Many of the 26 steals came in situations where he was just running to build the stats, like a blow-out game when the opponent was basically conceding the base. I did not like his make-up.

As a hitter, where are you gonna put him in the order. He started out in the lead-off spot, but his .322 OBP did not give you much there. They tried moving him down to the middle of the order but a .392 SLP was not anything to write home about. He is probably an eight hole hitter. And here was the most telling thing: look at how he hit in critical situations, those times when the games were won or lost, when the opposing pitcher is really bearing down and is going to battle you hard and give you the best he has. Sappelt hit .192 with runners in scoring position and when you focus in to runners in scoring position with two outs (the most important situation in baseball because you either drive in runs or end a rally), he hit just .135.

He has some talent, no doubt, but he was not the player I hoped he would be.

Thanks, 72, interesting stuff.

I read somewhere recently that Sappelt was voted MVP of the Reds instructional league. (I believe Carlos Mendez was voted the top hitter and Brain Pearl the top pitcher.) So, given his performance post-Dayton, it could be that Sappelt is learning some of the stuff you saw him lacking.

mth123
11-17-2009, 02:55 AM
Kip Wells officially filed for Free Agency which I think removes him from the 40 man roster and Ramon Hernandez' signing locks him in. I think the 40 man now stands at 36




Spot PSO Name
1 P Aaron Harang
2 P Bronson Arroyo
3 P Matt Maloney
4 P Homer Bailey
5 P Johnny Cueto
6 P Nick Masset
7 P Francisco Cordero
8 P Jared Burton
9 P Micah Owings
10 P Danny Rae Herrera
11 P Bill Bray
12 P Arthur Lee Rhodes
13 P Carlos Fisher
14 P Edinson Volquez
15 P Daryl Thompson
16 P Mike Lincoln
17 P Pedro Viola
18 P Sam Lecure
19 C Ryan Hanigan
20 C Ramon Hernandez
21 C Craig Tatum
22 IF Adam Rosales
23 IF Drew Sutton
24 IF Joey Votto
25 IF Brandon Phillips
26 IF Scott Rolen
27 IF Yonder Alonso
28 IF Paul Janish
29 OF Willie Taveras
30 OF Juan Francisco
31 OF Drew Stubbs
32 OF Wladimir Balentien
33 OF Laynce Nix
34 OF Jay Bruce
35 OF Chris Dickerson
36 OF Johnny Gomes



Guys left unprotected at this point




Phil Valiquette
Jordan Smith
Enerio Del Rosario
Travis Wood
Chris Heisey
Logan Ondrusek
Danny Dorn
Chris Valaika
Corky Miller
Chris Denove
Sean Henry
Miguel Rojas
Logan Parker
Sean Watson
Justin Lehr
Kris Negron
Ruben Medina
Luis Montano
Derrik Lutz
Oscar Castro
Wilkin Castillo



I have to think Heisey and Wood are locks and Miller, Lehr and Castillo are certain to be exposed. There will surely be more movement on and off by Friday which is the deadline I believe for setting the roster prior to Rule 5.

lollipopcurve
11-17-2009, 08:57 AM
I have to think Heisey and Wood are locks and Miller, Lehr and Castillo are certain to be exposed. There will surely be more movement on and off by Friday which is the deadline I believe for setting the roster prior to Rule 5.

Miller, Lehr and Castillo have already signed contracts for 2010. They'll be in Louisville.

redsof72
11-17-2009, 09:53 AM
I have seen Rojas on the list several times. I am not certain of the exact wording on international players and their Rule V eligibility. He has played four years and signed at 16. Do we know for certain that the list on post 163 is official?

My guess at this point, (and this is just a guess because you talk to different people within the organization and they all have vastly different opinions of who should be protected) with four days before the roster has to be set, is that they fill the four current vacancies with Heisey and Wood (locks), Valaika (highly probable), and Ondrusek (would have been a lock if not for AFL struggles). If there are more vacancies created, my next set of additions, in order, would be Valiquette, Del Rosario, and Jordan Smith. That's seven. That's probably it unless they add Dorn, which would surprise me a little based on the things I have heard.

Mario-Rijo
11-17-2009, 05:11 PM
I have seen Rojas on the list several times. I am not certain of the exact wording on international players and their Rule V eligibility. He has played four years and signed at 16. Do we know for certain that the list on post 163 is official?

My guess at this point, (and this is just a guess because you talk to different people within the organization and they all have vastly different opinions of who should be protected) with four days before the roster has to be set, is that they fill the four current vacancies with Heisey and Wood (locks), Valaika (highly probable), and Ondrusek (would have been a lock if not for AFL struggles). If there are more vacancies created, my next set of additions, in order, would be Valiquette, Del Rosario, and Jordan Smith. That's seven. That's probably it unless they add Dorn, which would surprise me a little based on the things I have heard.

Interesting stuff 72, thanks for the heads up.

RED VAN HOT
11-17-2009, 07:33 PM
I have seen Rojas on the list several times. I am not certain of the exact wording on international players and their Rule V eligibility. He has played four years and signed at 16. Do we know for certain that the list on post 163 is official?

My guess at this point, (and this is just a guess because you talk to different people within the organization and they all have vastly different opinions of who should be protected) with four days before the roster has to be set, is that they fill the four current vacancies with Heisey and Wood (locks), Valaika (highly probable), and Ondrusek (would have been a lock if not for AFL struggles). If there are more vacancies created, my next set of additions, in order, would be Valiquette, Del Rosario, and Jordan Smith. That's seven. That's probably it unless they add Dorn, which would surprise me a little based on the things I have heard.

I'll hazard a guess that there will be at least four more slots opened up. Nix is due for arbitration. Balentien must stay on the 25. I can't see keeping Taveras if he is third on the depth chart for CF. I think at least two of these three will be removed. I suspect that either Rosales or Sutton will be removed. Sutton is more versatile since he switch hits and plays a better SS. With the signing of Hernandez, Tatum is at risk. I have not seen reports on how well Bray, Lincoln, and Thompson are progressing, but I doubt that all three will be kept.

mth123
11-17-2009, 08:07 PM
Miller, Lehr and Castillo have already signed contracts for 2010. They'll be in Louisville.

But they can still be picked in Rule 5 if anyone wants them.

lollipopcurve
11-17-2009, 09:31 PM
But they can still be picked in Rule 5 if anyone wants them.

Are you sure? They have signed contracts.

mth123
11-18-2009, 12:16 AM
Are you sure? They have signed contracts.

If they aren't protected on the 40 man roster, they can be taken contracts and all. If not any team could avoid rule 5 by simply signing its players to a contract.

redsof72
11-18-2009, 09:23 AM
Correct. But that is also why they signed Lehr to a major league deal before he was outrighted. They basically weighted down his contract so that if someone wants to take him in the Rule V, they are on the hook for the whole $400,000, not just the $50,000 it costs to select a player. I thought it was a good move by the Reds.

redsof72
11-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Part of what this comes down to is this question: While all of us are fans of the farm system and we see potential in most all of the prospects, where does the line stop in terms of players the Reds would want to keep? In other words, how deep does the list go before the Reds view the next player up as Carlos Guevara, meaning they would actually prefer to take the $50,000 and give up the player? How many players do they have on the list that they would not give up for $50,000?

Not sure of the answer to that. But that is part of the decision.

One other thought on this: It would shock me if this happened, but is there any chance they would protect Terrell Young? I would have to say no.

mth123
11-20-2009, 03:50 AM
Miller, Lehr and Castillo have already signed contracts for 2010. They'll be in Louisville.

According to BA's transactions page, the Reds granted Miller Free Agency. I'm guessing that he asked out with Ramon's signing and his shot at going north after spring training disappeared.

Too bad. I didn't really want Miller on the roster, but he's a good defensive catcher who seems to do a good job with the staff and I think he'd be a good guy to have in the organization helping with the minor league pitchers. The Reds lost another guy who I've heard is like that in Chris Kroski though I really have no way of knowing.

mth123
11-20-2009, 04:07 AM
Deadline day has arrived and the Roster still seems unsettled. Heisey and Wood still have not been added and others who seem like they should go are still on the roster. Most other teams have seemingly made their moves and I wonder if the Reds have something in the works to help settle the Roster. Could be a day we may hear of a minor deal or two or more likely just some last minute movement on and off the 40 man.

For clarification, today is the last day that the Reds can add a minor leaguer who is out of Rule 5 exemptions (in other words enough time has passed since they were drafted or signed that they are eligible to be picked) to the roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. If the Reds want to remove a guy in order to create a spot to pick some one in the draft, they have until December 8th for that.

lollipopcurve
11-20-2009, 07:22 AM
According to BA's transactions page, the Reds granted Miller Free Agency. I'm guessing that he asked out with Ramon's signing and his shot at going north after spring training disappeared.

I think the BA stuff is a bit old. Miller did sign a 2010 contract, and Jocketty himself has been quoted as saying Corky will be in Louisville. I'd be very surprised if this has changed.

HokieRed
11-20-2009, 07:54 AM
Deadline day has arrived and the Roster still seems unsettled. Heisey and Wood still have not been added and others who seem like they should go are still on the roster. Most other teams have seemingly made their moves and I wonder if the Reds have something in the works to help settle the Roster. Could be a day we may hear of a minor deal or two or more likely just some last minute movement on and off the 40 man.

For clarification, today is the last day that the Reds can add a minor leaguer who is out of Rule 5 exemptions (in other words enough time has passed since they were drafted or signed that they are eligible to be picked) to the roster to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. If the Reds want to remove a guy in order to create a spot to pick some one in the draft, they have until December 8th for that.

So we'd probably expect them to go right to 40 by the end of the day. I'm trying to get the process straight.

mth123
11-21-2009, 05:55 AM
So we'd probably expect them to go right to 40 by the end of the day. I'm trying to get the process straight.

Yep, now that they're at 40, they have until December 8th to remove someone in order to make a pick. They can't call anyone else up to protect them, if I understand it correctly, but they can still subtract to create a spot. Anyone removed would be unprotected from the Rule 5 draft.

I'm guessing the Reds will try like heck to find a taker for Willy between now and then and then DFA him at the last possible minute if they aren't successful to create a spot, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

RED VAN HOT
11-21-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm guessing the Reds will try like heck to find a taker for Willy between now and then and then DFA him at the last possible minute if they aren't successful to create a spot, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

It makes a lot of sense to me too. If I understand the rules correctly, the Reds can now look at unprotected players from the other teams for someone who can fill a need on the ML roster. My guess would be either a bull pen arm or utility infielder who could at least challenge Janish at SS. If they don't like what's available, they can keep Taveras through spring training. Injuries may make Taveras a more attractive acquisition for other teams as opening day nears.

mdccclxix
12-01-2009, 01:09 AM
Per Jamie Ramsey's great blog - a chat with Terry Reynolds, director of player development. Here's an important guy when it comes to what we all like to do - project players and pace their trajectory.

(emphasis mine where placed):


BOR: Ok, so the Reds on Friday added to the 40-man roster RHP Enerio Del Rosario, OF Chris Heisey, RHP Logan Ondrusek, RHP Jordan Smith, IF Chris Valaika, LHP Philippe Valiquette and LHP Travis Wood. Obviously the more recognizable names from that list are Heisey, Wood and Valaika. Heisey is one of those guys who's getting a lot of publicity lately. And depending on whom you ask, folks either really like his game or are just kind of mildly impressed. What can you tell us about him?

TR: Chris is a guy that Jeff Brookens in our scouting department deserves a lot of credit for. He was a 17th-round draft pick out of a small school in Pennsylvania and this guy has really good tools. He can run, he can throw, he can hit, he can play all 3 outfield positions. (He has) enough speed to play center, enough arm to play right. He's a smart player. He's hit and put up good numbers at every level he's played which includes Double-A, Triple-A and now the Arizona Fall League. He's a good-looking young player that I'm happy we have in our system.

BOR: And I have to admit, we were in a meeting at the beginning of the year in Walt's office and he asked you point-blank, "Give me a name that we should keep an eye on," and you said Heisey and it's paid off, he had a great year.

TR: He's one of those guys you root for, too because without any fanfare he does his job, does what he's told, works hard at his game and tries to improve everyday.

BOR: Travis Wood had a breakout year down on the farm last season, did you see this coming and what happened to enable Travis to enjoy this renewed success?

TR: Well I think the pat on the back goes to the pitching coaches in player development whether it's Tom Brown or Rigo Beltran or Mack Jenkins or any of the pitching coaches that have dealt with Travis over the last couple of years. I think it's really just a case of him maturing both as a player and as a person. He was very young high school player when he was drafted, and each year it's kind of taken him a second year at each level to get his feet underneath him and be successful. This year, he jumped into Double-A and really tore it up from the beginning of the season, (and he) pitched well when he got to Triple-A. He's always had the stuff to do it, I think it's a matter of increased confidence and increasing his ability to throw pitches where he wants to throw them. Did I see it coming? No, to answer your question, but it sure was a pleasant surprise and hopefully he can keep that going.

BOR: And you mentioned his stuff, is it true - I think I read in Baseball America - that he learned a new pitch?

TR: He throws a cutter, which has helped. It just gives the hitter something else to look at and it gives him a little bit more confidence to throw the ball in on the hitter's hands. And it has been a big help to him.

BOR: Chris Valaika had a really rough start in 2009 and then when he returned from injury showed signs of his old self. Where do you see his progress at this point?

TR: I'm going to call last year just a blip on the radar screen for Chris. He didn't have a good year performance-wise, (and then) he had a broken hand and missed a bunch of time. Just when it looked like he was coming back to be his old self, it just kind of leveled out at the end of the summer. My expectation with him is that he's going to come out and have a real good year next year in Louisville. In talking to him just recently, I know he's very focused on doing that. For the people who don't know Chris, he's one of those guys that if he tells you he's doing something, he's gonna do it in the offseason and come in ready to go. I know it was a frustrating year for all of us, but most importantly it was a frustrating year for him and I wouldn't (plan to) see a duplication of that coming next year.

BOR: And for Chris, do you see him more as a shortstop or a second-baseman or a utility-infielder? What's your take on that, what's his best position?

TR: Well he's played predominately shortstop for us in the course of the minor leagues. If he can do that, I don't have any reason to doubt that he couldn't come up and play shortstop at the Major League level. The great thing about Chris is that he can give you some versatility. If you need him to play second he can do that, he can even play third, he can do that. I would still consider him primarily a shortstop but he's got the ability to - if needed - can play any one of those 3 spots.

BOR: Now let's talk a little about the lesser-known players who were added to the roster. We'll start with Enerio Del Rosario. What kind of pitcher is he, and what makes him roster-worthy?

TR: He was one of those guys that started out in A-ball this year for us and basically dominated that level. He made a stop in Double-A and pitched extremely well there. And then you kind of hold your breath because we had a bunch of guys move 2 levels this year, which is something you try not to do if you can avoid it. But it was one of those unavoidable circumstances with a lot of guys and Ernie got to Triple-A and I don't know if he gave up a run there in a bunch of outings. Most nights he was almost unhittable. He's just one of those guys who really knows how to pitch. He keeps the ball way down in the strike zone, he changes speeds, he's very aggressive. I wouldn't say there isn't anything overpowering about the guy, but I would say if you had to have somebody come out there in the 7th, 8th or 9th inning during this summer, he would've been 1 of the 2 or 3 guys in our system you wanted out there on the mound.

BOR: Logan Ondrusek is a lanky hard-thrower. He's had some recent struggles, but obviously the organization likes what they see out of him. What's your take on Logan?

TR: Everything I just basically said about Del Rosario is true for Ondrusek, too. He also started in A-ball, ended up in Triple-A, ended up in the (Arizona) Fall League. (He) pitched at a tremendous level this summer in all 3 levels he pitched. He ended up struggling a bit in the fall league and I'd say some of that was due to throwing a lot during the course of the summer, maybe more than he's thrown for us in the past. And also, the break between the end of the season and the fall league; I think he's one of those guys who the more he pitches consistently without a break, the better he gets. I think the thing that was different with Logan this year was his attitude. He believed he could get hitters out, he's always had the stuff to do it and this year he went out there and pitched that way.

BOR: An interesting name to me is Jordan Smith. He is coming off an injury and didn't pitch much in '09. And again, obviously the club thinks enough of his ability to protect him by adding him to the 40-man roster. What can you tell us about Jordan?

TR: He's a big, strong, right-handed pitcher who's been used predominately by us as a starter in the past. I think there's talk that we may try him in the pen, come the spring. But he's got probably the best stuff of the guys we've been talking about on this call. He's young, he's big and he's strong. He did have a set-back with an elbow issue during the course of the season but he did not have surgery. He joined us in Instructional League and it looks like everything is good and he should be 100% ready to go in the spring. He's one of those guys who can move real fast if he's healthy.

BOR: Valiquette is a hard-throwing lefty, what impresses you about his game?

TR: Well the most impressive thing is he's a lefthander throwing at anywhere near 93 to 97 mph. He's French-Canadian without much of a baseball background when we drafted him, so it's been a fairly steep learning curve for Philippe during the course of his career. It's just every year (his progress has) been incrementally done and last year was by far the best he's pitched as a Red. (He has) one of those arms, that when the draft comes around in December, he'd be an easy guy for another club to take because you could just put him in the bullpen and throw him out there a couple of times a week, and "Oh, this guy's got a great arm" and hang on to him for a full season. He's one of those guys, that when it all clicks and that he finally becomes a complete pitcher, he's got as good of stuff as anyone we have.


Pretty interesting that Jordan Smith is a) moving to the pen b) considered to have better stuff than Wood.

Also surprised to hear they like Valaika at SS in Cincinnati if opportunities arise.

Nice to hear about the relievers (not glad to hear Smith may be one - making another bullpen guy on the 40), but nothing too revelatory there.
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I thought this story could use it's own thread, but I can't make one. Why is that? Not enough posts?

dougdirt
12-01-2009, 03:09 AM
Pretty interesting that Jordan Smith is a) moving to the pen b) considered to have better stuff than Wood.

Also surprised to hear they like Valaika at SS in Cincinnati if opportunities arise.

Nice to hear about the relievers (not glad to hear Smith may be one - making another bullpen guy on the 40), but nothing too revelatory there.

I thought this story could use it's own thread, but I can't make one. Why is that? Not enough posts?

You don't have enough posts to make a topic of our own. As far as stuff goes, Jordan Smith has a very good sinking fastball that sits 91-93 and hits 95. He has a slider that is considered to have plus potential. The stuff is most certainly there for him, but given those things I have always felt he should miss a few more bats than he has.

I am with you on Valaika.... it seems that depending on who is talking you are going to get a different response about Valaika and shortstop. Rick Sweet earlier this year said the Reds didn't view him as a long term guy there and that he was moving to 2B and he did. He moved back after some injuries, then was injured himself.

mth123
12-01-2009, 04:44 AM
You don't have enough posts to make a topic of our own. As far as stuff goes, Jordan Smith has a very good sinking fastball that sits 91-93 and hits 95. He has a slider that is considered to have plus potential. The stuff is most certainly there for him, but given those things I have always felt he should miss a few more bats than he has.

I am with you on Valaika.... it seems that depending on who is talking you are going to get a different response about Valaika and shortstop. Rick Sweet earlier this year said the Reds didn't view him as a long term guy there and that he was moving to 2B and he did. He moved back after some injuries, then was injured himself.

Its certainly to the Reds advantage to keep the door open for Valaika at SS. I personally don't like the cumulative effect of iffy defense at SS every day (but am ok with a guy like Rosales, Frazier, Sutton or Valaika getting a few ABs there occassionally), but keeping SS on Valaika's resume may help his marketability. I'm sure other teams will make their own determination but it can't hurt the perception of Valaika if the team who sees him every day still maintains that SS is a possibility.

RED VAN HOT
12-02-2009, 06:55 PM
As far as stuff goes, Jordan Smith has a very good sinking fastball that sits 91-93 and hits 95. He has a slider that is considered to have plus potential. The stuff is most certainly there for him, but given those things I have always felt he should miss a few more bats than he has.


Your description plus "young, big, strong and probably the best stuff of those mentioned" sounds like a starter's profile. It seems curious that they are thinking of trying him in the pen. Perhaps they are being cautious with the elbow. It would be interesting to see if he missed more bats in shorter stints.

dougdirt
12-02-2009, 07:38 PM
Your description plus "young, big, strong and probably the best stuff of those mentioned" sounds like a starter's profile. It seems curious that they are thinking of trying him in the pen. Perhaps they are being cautious with the elbow. It would be interesting to see if he missed more bats in shorter stints.

Perhpas the lack of a 3rd pitch that is nearly as good as the others is the reason for the move to the bullpen? Just a guess, I don't have any idea as to why the Reds are doing it.

Gallen5862
01-11-2010, 04:59 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=cin

40-Man Roster
* Pitchers B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 61 Bronson Arroyo R/R 6-5 195 02/24/77
* 34 Homer Bailey R/R 6-3 210 05/03/86
* 45 Bill Bray L/L 6-3 220 06/05/83
* 51 Jared Burton R/R 6-5 230 06/02/81
* 54 Aroldis Chapman L/L 6-4 185 02/28/88
* 48 Francisco Cordero R/R 6-3 240 05/11/75
* 47 Johnny Cueto R/R 5-10 200 02/15/86
* -- Enerio Del Rosario R/R 6-2 165 10/16/85
* 46 Carlos Fisher R/R 6-4 225 02/22/83
* 39 Aaron Harang R/R 6-7 260 05/09/78
* 52 Daniel Ray Herrera L/L 5-6 165 10/21/84
* 78 Sam LeCure R/R 6-1 205 05/04/84
* 57 Mike Lincoln R/R 6-2 220 04/10/75
* 56 Matt Maloney L/L 6-4 220 01/16/84
* 40 Nick Masset R/R 6-4 235 05/17/82
* -- Logan Ondrusek R/R 6-7 205 02/13/85
* 33 Micah Owings R/R 6-5 220 09/28/82
* 53 Arthur Rhodes L/L 6-2 210 10/24/69
* -- Jordan Smith R/R 6-4 220 02/04/86
* -- Philippe-Alexandre Valiquette L/L 6-0 175 02/14/87
* 50 Pedro Viola R/L 6-1 185 06/29/83
* 36 Edinson Volquez R/R 6-0 210 07/03/83
* -- Travis Wood R/L 5-11 165 02/06/87
* Catchers B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 29 Ryan Hanigan R/R 6-0 200 08/16/80
* 55 Ramon Hernandez R/R 6-0 225 05/20/76
* Infielders B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 77 Yonder Alonso L/R 6-2 215 04/08/87
* 64 Juan Francisco L/R 6-2 180 06/24/87
* 7 Paul Janish R/R 6-2 195 10/12/82
* 4 Brandon Phillips R/R 6-0 195 06/28/81
* 27 Scott Rolen R/R 6-4 240 04/04/75
* 23 Adam Rosales R/R 6-2 195 05/20/83
* 15 Drew Sutton S/R 6-3 185 06/30/83
* -- Chris Valaika R/R 6-0 215 08/14/85
* 19 Joey Votto L/R 6-3 235 09/10/83
* Outfielders B/T Ht Wt DOB *
* 28 Wladimir Balentien R/R 6-2 220 07/02/84
* 32 Jay Bruce L/L 6-3 225 04/03/87
* 21 Chris Dickerson L/L 6-3 230 04/10/82
* -- Chris Heisey R/R 6-0 200 12/14/84
* 6 Drew Stubbs R/R 6-4 205 10/04/84
* 3 Willy Taveras R/R 6-0 160 12/25/81
*
*

Gallen5862
01-11-2010, 05:00 PM
That is the new 40 Man roster with Chapman included. What other changes do you think the Reds will make to the 40 Man roster?

TheNext44
03-17-2010, 05:27 PM
By Joe Strauss
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH


The Cardinals have engaged the Cincinnati Reds in trade talks for Rule 5 draftee Ben Jukich. The lefthander is not expected to make the club this spring and would have to be offered back to the Reds if the Cardinals do not place him on their 25-man roster. ...



http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/65992183755C6F12862576E9000AE59C?OpenDocument

GIDP
03-17-2010, 05:50 PM
Jukich really doesnt have much of a place in the Org anymore. That should be kinda interesting to see if we take him back or trade for him.

mth123
03-17-2010, 06:00 PM
They can keep Jukich if they take Mike Lincoln.

Griffey012
03-18-2010, 03:34 AM
They can keep Jukich if they take Mike Lincoln.

:thumbup: