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View Full Version : Why the Rolen trade makes sense for 2010



RedsFanWC
08-01-2009, 05:09 PM
Heres why I think this trade makes sense for 2010 and beyond:

We traded from a position of strength (young bullpen arms) to shore up a position of weakness (3B defense, RH bat, veteran position leadership).

The Volquez injury hurts but the Reds are now set up to start the 2010 season with a great bullpen (Cordero, Rhodes, Masset, Herrera, Fisher), a decent rotation (Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Owings) and a great defense that will help both the bullpen and the rotation.

Assuming we bring Gomes back our lineup could be something like this (2009 stats):

CF Dickerson: OPS = .715, Field% = .977
2B Phillips: OPS = .799, F% = .985
1B Votto: OPS = 1.015, F% = .989
3B Rolen: OPS = .846, F% = .979
RF Bruce: OPS = .725, F% = .989
C Hanigan: OPS = .780, F% = .997
LF Gomes: OPS = .933, F% = .978
SS Janish: OPS = .582, F% = .980

Our weakest positions are CF, SS and LF. These just also happen to be the positions that we have prospects that seem to be the closest to major league ready in Frazier (LF), Stubbs and Heisey (CF or LF) and Valaika and Cozart (SS).

Orodle
08-01-2009, 05:29 PM
I agree, just because a player is in their mid 30s doesnt mean they cant contribute the following season even if we dont make a run this season.

GIDP
08-01-2009, 05:32 PM
I like Rolen. His health is the issue, so we better have a good back up plan if we plan on competing. His contract really hand cuffs us as well when it comes to plugging those holes we have.

As for the holes I dont think Frazier is going to be an option for LF next year. Stubbs shouldnt be on the team unless hes the every day CF. Probably the same with Heisey. Cozart is probably not going to be ready for SS next year either.

Hondo
08-01-2009, 05:35 PM
This trade is good for one reason. Adding a Great Player, a great Role Model, a Right Handed Power Bat that could hit 25 and knock in 100 in 2010...

But, He makes 11.25 Million next year if not more.

Why if this team were going to pick up a Salary like this could not have it Traded for Cliff Lee and his 8 Million Dollar Salary next year...

What about Trading for Rolen and Halladay? I mean, try a Big Trade...

Rolen is a nice schrewd move by Walt, but the FO should have gotton this guy when Philly traded him to the Cards years ago to go between Griffey and Dunn...

Just a lil bit too late... But Rolen may be able to help attract Free Agents...

BluegrassRedleg
08-01-2009, 05:36 PM
I like Rolen quite a bit, but I think there's a long way to go before they're decent in the starting rotation (without Volquez) and strong defensively. As you pointed out, LF, CF and SS are still big question marks. Two of those three are the "up the middle" positions, which could be alarming.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2009, 05:48 PM
His health is no more of an issue than anyone else really. You never know how a player recovers or progresses. When Junior got traded here, he was injured his first few years. Then the past few years, considerably older, he hasn't had any major problems whatsoever.

Reading from the Jays, he changed his swing mechanics a bit in the offseason to compensate for a bad shoulder, and he's become more productive and took the strain off that shoulder as well.

GIDP
08-01-2009, 05:59 PM
His health is no more of an issue than anyone else really. You never know how a player recovers or progresses. When Junior got traded here, he was injured his first few years. Then the past few years, considerably older, he hasn't had any major problems whatsoever.

Reading from the Jays, he changed his swing mechanics a bit in the offseason to compensate for a bad shoulder, and he's become more productive and took the strain off that shoulder as well.
Now matter how you want to put it Rolens health is an issue more than other players.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2009, 06:13 PM
Now matter how you want to put it Rolens health is an issue more than other players.

Whatever you say, it always sounds good to predict someone's health. I bet you probably hope he gets hurt just so you can come on here and rant about it too, right?

GIDP
08-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Whatever you say, it always sounds good to predict someone's health. I bet you probably hope he gets hurt just so you can come on here and rant about it too, right?

He played 112 in 07, and 115 in 08. Hes played in 88 of 103 games this year. Even if he avoids the DL we should probably only expect him for 120-130 games next year.

texasdave
08-01-2009, 06:31 PM
Taveras plays centerfield. Dude is fast.

SoTxRedsFan
08-01-2009, 06:42 PM
This trade only makes sense if they go out and make some moves this offseason to become real contenders. If they stand pat and go with what we have this trade was a colossal mistake, and just shows how dumb our front office really is.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-01-2009, 06:48 PM
He played 112 in 07, and 115 in 08. Hes played in 88 of 103 games this year. Even if he avoids the DL we should probably only expect him for 120-130 games next year.

His injuries spur from two things: the shoulder problem from a collison like 4 years ago, which looks to be resolved because he changed his batting stance and its shown this year. He was injured before the year because of a finger injury during drills, which also tore his fingernail off. The two aren't related.

Saying someone is injury prone is ridiculous with a position player, because its almost always something that causes it. A collision, getting hit on a pitch, making a dive in the field, or whatever. That doesn't mean you're any more likely to be injured afterwards just because you were injured on something completely unrealted before.

He could go out tonight and get drilled in the leg with a line drive and his kneecap cracked. Does that make him injury prone? No, thats just bad luck. Same with Junior. He kept getting injured, and it was basically a new injury every time resulting from a play out in the field. Now, he's been relatively injury free, even though he's older. He didn't suddenly find the fountain of youth or something, he just hasn't had as bad of luck.

As long as something doesn't occur in the field to injure Rolen, he's no more likely to be injured than anyone else. Just because he's 34 doesn't mean he's any more or less likely to twist an ankle or break a wrist than anyone else. See Jay Bruce, Edwin Encarnacion, etc. Young guys who get injured just because of the nature of the game. Their age didn't matter, it just happened. When Scott Rolen has been injured, its because of those things, the same thing that can effect anyone on any given night.

GIDP
08-01-2009, 09:00 PM
Brick wall

You are the only person who thinks Rolens health is a non issue. :laugh:

WildcatFan
08-01-2009, 09:06 PM
Well, if we're headed that direction, AGon's knee, Phillips' finger, Votto's anxiety, Hanigan's neck, Bruce's wrist, Volquez's elbow, Arroyo's hand and Hernandez's knee should also be major concerns heading into next season.

GIDP
08-01-2009, 09:48 PM
Well, if we're headed that direction, AGon's knee, Phillips' finger, Votto's anxiety, Hanigan's neck, Bruce's wrist, Volquez's elbow, Arroyo's hand and Hernandez's knee should also be major concerns heading into next season.

Hopefully a couple of those guys wont be on the team, but other than Phillips, Bruce and Hanigan id agree.

lidspinner
08-01-2009, 10:57 PM
This trade is good for one reason. Adding a Great Player, a great Role Model, a Right Handed Power Bat that could hit 25 and knock in 100 in 2010...

But, He makes 11.25 Million next year if not more.

Why if this team were going to pick up a Salary like this could not have it Traded for Cliff Lee and his 8 Million Dollar Salary next year...

What about Trading for Rolen and Halladay? I mean, try a Big Trade...

Rolen is a nice schrewd move by Walt, but the FO should have gotton this guy when Philly traded him to the Cards years ago to go between Griffey and Dunn...

Just a lil bit too late... But Rolen may be able to help attract Free Agents...

Buddy, I have been preaching that all over every outlet I can....IMO, this is why Walt is no longer with the Cardinals.....he is good at what he does but he is not smart enough or not ballsy enough to try and get Cliff Lee....the Phils gave up next to NO ONE to get Cliff Lee, they kept their top prospects to get him....we could have 1 upped Philly and threw in a Stewart and the Phils would have jumped all over that.....This just dont make sense to me and this is why Walt needs to find work elsewhere as far as I am concerned....the Indians have reported the teams that came calling and i never read the Reds name once.....does this mean Walt really never even inquired about Lee? But talked with the Blue Jays for almost 3 weeks about Rolen? And as you pointed out, lee is cheaper next year. Thats almost another 3 million to play around elsewhere.

I know a lot of stuff is done behind closed doors and we will never know why stuff happens...BUT, this is about as clear cut as it gets.....Lee was out there, Reds could use Lee in a bad way.....EE is bad but over a 3 year span his numbers are almost identical to Rolen's, so why not go after Lee and build off that....Hell, you could have made both trades if you could have found someone to just take harang or Bronson......Money would have evened out and we could have Lee and Rolen..........I just would like Walt to come out and say why Cliff Lee is not pitching in a Reds uniform.

BLEEDS
08-02-2009, 04:19 AM
What about Trading for Rolen and Halladay? I mean, try a Big Trade...


You think we can't add $11M (actually only a little over $5M since EE's contract is off the books), but you think we could add Halladay's salary next year??!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

kentjett
08-02-2009, 05:30 AM
Rolen is a leader and a veteran that has been there before. He knows there are ups and downs. He can be our Greg Vaughn and lead our solid young core. He has something stats can't due justice and it's something we are severely lacking, leadership. Griffey,Dunn, Phillips are never going to be the leader types but Rolen is. He isn't afraid to get in somebody's face. Some things you cannot teach. I hated the trade at first but know I'm starting to love it. 2 unproven minor league relievers and a unmotivated 3rd baseman that nobody wants for a leader on and off the field, I'm sold.

demas863
08-02-2009, 05:03 PM
One thing this trade has done for sure is guarantee that we won't be seeing the likes of La Russa and Duncan next year and raises the probability that Dusty will be back. :yikes: