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View Full Version : Welcome to the AL, Roenicke



malcontent
08-02-2009, 08:40 PM
1 IP: no hits, two K's (one BB). Nice work.

1 0 0 0 1 2 0 2.51

jfleur87
08-02-2009, 08:42 PM
let the told you so's begin.

Krawhitham
08-02-2009, 08:43 PM
told you so

malcontent
08-02-2009, 08:44 PM
let the told you so's begin.

Yep. Gut instinct tells me that this is gonna be bad.

Real bad.

nemesis
08-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Yep. Gut instinct tells me that this is gonna be bad.

Real bad.

It'll be bad not because Roenicke becomes a quality ML Reliever. We have a farm system full of kids who can and will put up the same types of numbers he will. It doesn't suck because we gave away our #1 pitching prospect who may or may not become a quality MLB pitcher. It sucks because we overpaid and over extended for a player on the decline and could be on the DL half the season with a bad back next year. THey get him supposedly to be our big RH bat. The trouble with that is we traded a bigger RH bat and a lesser glove plus 2 decent pitchers for him for a little salary relief this year when the cost to go out and replace Stewart and Roenicke in 2 years will be much greater than the 4 million we saved this year. Tell me that they wouldn't have taken 2 of Viola, Fisher, Maloney, LeCure, Wood, Thurman or Del Rosario and gotten the same deal. I just cannot believe that the Jays we so stuck on Stewart that they were willing to risk loosing out on dumping that salary to say no to that kind of offer.

malcontent
08-02-2009, 09:39 PM
It'll be bad not because Roenicke becomes a quality ML Reliever. We have a farm system full of kids who can and will put up the same types of numbers he will. It doesn't suck because we gave away our #1 pitching prospect who may or may not become a quality MLB pitcher. It sucks because we overpaid and over extended for a player on the decline and could be on the DL half the season with a bad back next year. THey get him supposedly to be our big RH bat. The trouble with that is we traded a bigger RH bat and a lesser glove plus 2 decent pitchers for him for a little salary relief this year when the cost to go out and replace Stewart and Roenicke in 2 years will be much greater than the 4 million we saved this year. Tell me that they wouldn't have taken 2 of Viola, Fisher, Maloney, LeCure, Wood, Thurman or Del Rosario and gotten the same deal. I just cannot believe that the Jays we so stuck on Stewart that they were willing to risk loosing out on dumping that salary to say no to that kind of offer.

Not sure where those kids are, but I agree that Ricciardi would have settled for significantly less.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-02-2009, 09:42 PM
He would have had arm injury here like Burton, Bray, and every other next big thing setup man anyway, so whats the difference?

DTCromer
08-02-2009, 10:11 PM
I knew there would be an "I told you so post" no matter what happened to this guy.

Nonetheless, he'll be OK in Toronto.

GIDP
08-02-2009, 11:02 PM
I knew there would be an "I told you so post" no matter what happened to this guy.

Nonetheless, he'll be OK in Toronto.

He will be ok, but he has some good potential to be very good as a closer or set up man.

97-99MPH and good sliders dont grow on trees.

SidneySlicker
08-02-2009, 11:49 PM
Common guys seriously if you've made your point on how you feel about the Rolen trade, get over it. Are the I told you so's really necessary? Does it really matter in the grand scheme of life what we think about the Reds? I understand that this is a forum to discuss baseball and the Reds, but isn't life to short to sweat over the trading of minor league players or even major league players for that matter? I'm not really on one side of this trade or the other, and to be honest although I want the Reds to win I understand and take this for what it is and that is a game. If the acquisition or moving of player or losing a game are enough to ruin your day/week/ year then you need to remember that it's just a game, or maybe I'll say "I told you so".

malcontent
08-03-2009, 01:50 AM
He would have had arm injury here like Burton, Bray, and every other next big thing setup man anyway, so whats the difference?

It does seem that this franchise is snake-bit.

But trades like this simply ensure that it will continue to circle the drain.

sivman17
08-03-2009, 02:33 AM
you guys are unbelievable!!! all you guys complain about is no hitting.. i mean, anyone in their right mind can watch this team and see that we have no hitting. it is absolutely ridiculous. but also, anyone in their right mind can see that we are stacked with relief pitchers. did you honestly believe that we could get a strong bat without parting with some of our relief pitching??? give it a rest guys. you can't get something for nothing. it doesn't work like that. you can't get matt holliday, victor martinez, mark derosa, etc., etc., for free. that doesn't happen. i was always and still am an edwin fan. i always thought with the right coaching he could be a great solid player. obviously we don't have good enough coaching, so our FO thought we had to trade him away. No, i didn't think we needed to trade away Ed for Rolen, but everyone complains about having no veteran leadership, having no bat in the lineup, and having a bad defense; well this guy shores up all three. quit complaining and support what the FO has done. they tried to make a move to make this team better. who knows what z stewart will do on the major league level? he is an unproven minor leaguer. yeah, roenicke is good, but right now we have co co and we don't need him. we also have masset, herrera, rhodes, weathers, and fisher. we had a surplus of arms and we had to part with one or more to get some offense. quit complaining and support this team for once. you guys are ridiculous!

jfleur87
08-03-2009, 04:19 AM
you guys are unbelievable!!! all you guys complain about is no hitting.. i mean, anyone in their right mind can watch this team and see that we have no hitting. it is absolutely ridiculous. but also, anyone in their right mind can see that we are stacked with relief pitchers. did you honestly believe that we could get a strong bat without parting with some of our relief pitching??? give it a rest guys. you can't get something for nothing. it doesn't work like that. you can't get matt holliday, victor martinez, mark derosa, etc., etc., for free. that doesn't happen. i was always and still am an edwin fan. i always thought with the right coaching he could be a great solid player. obviously we don't have good enough coaching, so our FO thought we had to trade him away. No, i didn't think we needed to trade away Ed for Rolen, but everyone complains about having no veteran leadership, having no bat in the lineup, and having a bad defense; well this guy shores up all three. quit complaining and support what the FO has done. they tried to make a move to make this team better. who knows what z stewart will do on the major league level? he is an unproven minor leaguer. yeah, roenicke is good, but right now we have co co and we don't need him. we also have masset, herrera, rhodes, weathers, and fisher. we had a surplus of arms and we had to part with one or more to get some offense. quit complaining and support this team for once. you guys are ridiculous!



I must say, when I first started to read your response, I assumed it was just going to be worthless like all the other haters of this trade.

However, you are correct in a number of ways. The reason I respond however, is this... I'd like to ask the Redszone nation how many minor leaguers that we have had that were untouchable in our minds, yet eventually, when those same players panned out it wasn't long before they were out of the league or no longer mentioned in the same breath as others that were thought, or now think, to be ubertalented.

My second thought/opinion/question is....to all those who lament the fact that we included Stewart into the deal, and I must admit, I've only read about him from those who are infatuated with him (on this board). Point being, I read much more about Homer Bailey, (and while, IMHO, he can be the catalyst for this team and a run at the playoffs) and how he isn't making anyone happy and has been trying for a few years now. But still I've read more about Zach Stewart being someone who should not have been traded

...I have tried to edit and reread my statement thus far, and while I no longer care if my grammar is accurate, my basic question is the same.

What did Stewart do that has dropped the jaws of many around here to make statements that essentially call out the FO ineptitude as well as make those who do not know much about the minor leagues assume that we got hosed in the deal...the very same deal in which we received an allstar, gold glove caliber player who is replacing a player who was Jekyll and Hyde on both sides of the ball....I understand we gave up possible "talent" on the major league level, but it is just the possible. Roenicke has played in the bigs. But Stewart has not. At one point, we thought Ramon Hernandez had a decent shot at the Bigs, most likely not unlike the shot Stewart will receive. And while the coaching staff might be able to work wonders in Toronto (definite sarcasm), I cannot see how we can sit in front of our respective PC's/Mac's and make such comments.

I've followed this board since the 2000 season, and I've never seen such disappointment over such a trade. We wanted Rolen 5 years ago, did not get him, so be it. However, should we not want him now? I'll take an aging Rolen over EE everyday of the week...twice on Sundays. I say this because of the track records on defense as well as the fact that Rolen offers the Vet. leadership that left the org. as soon as Griffey did. Is it not true that the longest tenured player was in fact EE....that is almost too scary to consider IMO.

I feel as I have rambled and that much of my remarks have no bearing as I am not well versed in the Reds other than the team itself and the players, but I would like to hear some reasons as to why we shouldn't want Rolen on our team other than people think he wont be able to play as much because his track record says he'll be injured in a matter of weeks (the ball to the head does not count).

It is late, I'm a tad bit inebriated, and I just want a Reds victory, so goodnight moon.

lidspinner
08-03-2009, 11:57 AM
I just wonder how this fanbase would have taken that trade had Rolen been the one on our team and we traded away a GG,.300 hitter for EE and some prospects?

texasdave
08-03-2009, 12:10 PM
The Reds arent going anywhere in 2009 so there was no need to make a trade deadline deal. None. Walt got pushed up against a meaningless deadline and started throwing prospects away. If we are going to resign Rolen for big bucks we should have just waited and signed a FA in the offseason. It was gonna take big bucks either way and we could have kept EDE Roenicke and Stewart. It was just a dumb move no matter how you look at it.

aubashbrother
08-05-2009, 10:54 PM
welcome to the AL Josh


vs Yanks tonight

1 ip , 3 hits , 2 runs , 2 walks , 2 k's

bigredmechanism
08-06-2009, 01:55 AM
Burn

Captain Hook
08-06-2009, 02:35 AM
I just wonder how this fanbase would have taken that trade had Rolen been the one on our team and we traded away a GG,.300 hitter for EE and some prospects?

And don't forget that they only saved a few million after the cash they sent to the Reds.I think that's a good question.I'd have probably complained a bit.That's easy for me to say though because I've defended the trade.

BLEEDS
08-06-2009, 07:12 PM
Looks like his brother Jason was drafted and signed by Toronto in 2008.

He was also drafted by the Reds in 2007, but went unsigned.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

ILoveWilly
08-06-2009, 09:45 PM
A lot of talk over losing two pitchers who may turn out to be good longterm pitchers, but thats so risky. we've had so many pitchers over the years, especially of the relief variety, that got off to a fast start and immediately came back down to earth. Burton, Bray, Lincoln, just on the current team.

Personally I think the old war horse middle reliever is the most underrated value position in baseball. You can sign them usually extremely cheap, while a closer like Cordero who puts up maybe a little bit better numbers is signed for a ridiculous amount more. Guys like Weathers and Rhodes are really underrated. Don't forget about Todd Jones a few years ago. And also maybe the best middle reliever of the past 20-30 years, Scott Sullivan, who was a complete work horse.

While you can pump up these younger guys and this and that, so many of them fall into obscurity after they get hyped for barely any MLB work. I'll take the old warhorse like a Scott Sullivan or a John Franco any day.

TheBigLebowski
08-06-2009, 10:35 PM
Not sure where those kids are, but I agree that Ricciardi would have settled for significantly less.

The fact that they obviously needed to deal Halladay and could not because of the fact that JP would not come off of his demands should tell you that he's not one to come off his asking price easily.

Unless Jockerty is completely out of his element with this job, which history shows he isn't, you have to know that the Reds are planning on a big offseason. You don't take on the salary of a Scott Rolen and give up arms like ZS and JR if just to add Rolen to a team that simply won't compete. Judge this trade after the 2009 off-season. If we don't address our needs sufficiently, or at least make a passionate effort to do so, then rip him a new one. We definitely gave up a lot for Rolen but it will be worth it if we make a commitment to get the players we need to compete in 2010.

gedred69
08-06-2009, 10:58 PM
The way I see it, is we now have 3 real MLB threat players, Rolen being the 3rd. Find some way to add at least one more? now we got a team. (Considering Bruce as a 5th). I've said it for 2 years now, EE=DD. (Danny Driessen). You know, right? The guy for whom the Reds traded the Big Dog away to make room for. Hopefully, this is the boomerang trade. We get back more(Rolen), than we traded. Perez is in the HOF. Driessen was never anything but a guy with incredible talent, but too dumb to play the game. So now, DD=EE.