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Kc61
08-03-2009, 10:44 AM
Reds have lost 12 of 13 and something like 21 or 27. The promising season has turned into a series of nightly losses. The team is now battling to avoid last place in the division.

With Bob C trying to build a better organization and increase fan interest, this must be a big disappointment.

The question is whether the Reds should just ride it out or take some additional immediate steps.

I like Dusty, I think he's been very good for the team overall, and think that it's hard to blame the manager when you look at his current roster. The outfield has no true starting players and, with Sutton, doesn't even have three true outfielders. The pitching misses Volquez, now even Owings is out, and Harang/Arroyo have just been about average pitchers this year.

Maybe it's time for Bob C and Walt to address the media a little more and explain what they have in mind.

Or maybe it's time to advance some minor league prospects just to give the fans a glimpse of what's on the horizon.

The question on the floor is how to deal with this terrible slump.

Homer Bailey
08-03-2009, 10:47 AM
Reds have lost 12 of 13 and something like 21 or 27. The promising season has turned into a series of nightly losses. The team is now battling to avoid last place in the division.

With Bob C trying to build a better organization and increase fan interest, this must be a big disappointment.

The question is whether the Reds should just ride it out or take some additional immediate steps.

I like Dusty, I think he's been very good for the team overall, and think that it's hard to blame the manager when you look at his current roster. The outfield has no true starting players and, with Sutton, doesn't even have three true outfielders. The pitching misses Volquez, now even Owings is out, and Harang/Arroyo have just been about average pitchers this year.

Maybe it's time for Bob C and Walt to address the media a little more and explain what they have in mind.

The question on the floor is how to deal with this terrible slump.

Fire Dusty.

Tank it for the number 2 pick.

Draft either Strasburg or Harper.

;)

redsmetz
08-03-2009, 11:24 AM
I think your suggestion about addressing the public would be a good step. I can't say it would ameliorate everyone, certainly not folks on RZ, but it may help. I agree with your assessment of Baker and there's no question the mounting injuries have been a huge setback.

The glib suggestion elsewhere to fire Baker and to tank the season, winking emoticon notwithstanding, is more of the treadmill, IMO.

After yesterday's loss, I called up to my wife upstairs and said that I didn't think the Reds would win another game all season. She told me being a pessimist didn't become me. So I like your thinking and I'll hope for the best the rest of the season. I still like this club in spite of its warts.

M2
08-03-2009, 11:32 AM
The way to deal with any season that's gone into the toilet is to insist that next year starts today. Put players worth watching on the field. Play a more enjoyable brand of baseball. Those are the things you can do.

HokieRed
08-03-2009, 11:56 AM
The way to deal with any season that's gone into the toilet is to insist that next year starts today. Put players worth watching on the field. Play a more enjoyable brand of baseball. Those are the things you can do.


Does the Rolen trade qualify?

BRM
08-03-2009, 11:57 AM
The way to deal with any season that's gone into the toilet is to insist that next year starts today. Put players worth watching on the field. Play a more enjoyable brand of baseball. Those are the things you can do.

Seems like such a simple concept.

REDREAD
08-03-2009, 12:06 PM
The way to deal with any season that's gone into the toilet is to insist that next year starts today. Put players worth watching on the field. Play a more enjoyable brand of baseball. Those are the things you can do.

Yep, but in fairness to the Reds, is there anyone in AAA that really deserves to be on the ML roster? Maybe there's one guy that I am overlooking, but I think everyone has had a shot. Even Lehr with his great AAA record got a shot.

The Reds go out and pick up Rolen, who does deserve to be on the ML roster, and will help next year, and the majority of the board either hates the move or is totally indifferent (based on the poll).

If we go by RedsZone, the vast majority of the board wants to keep doing what we've been doing the past 10 years -- trade every vet we can, and keep hoping that in 3-4 years a great crop of prospects will lead us to the promised land.

In all seriousness, I expect a lot of people to start calling for Votto to be traded in 4-5 years, no matter how good he is. We will be told that 1b grow on trees and that a small market team can not afford to use X% of its budget on a 1b. Same for Cueto and Volquez..

nate
08-03-2009, 12:19 PM
If we go by RedsZone, the vast majority of the board wants to keep doing what we've been doing the past 10 years -- trade every vet we can, and keep hoping that in 3-4 years a great crop of prospects will lead us to the promised land.

No, that's not what "Redszone" thinks.

Roy Tucker
08-03-2009, 12:24 PM
http://media.skyandtelescope.com/images/Chicxulub+impact_l.jpg

UKFlounder
08-03-2009, 12:29 PM
A public statement (i.e. lip service) means as much as "the losing stops now" did last year.

Talk is cheap.

I think they need to establish a plan - whether it be rebuiling or trying to "win now" follow it and stick to it.

Perhaps acquiring Rolen is part of a "win now" plan, but, if so, it cannot be the only part of it.

I guess it would be nice if they announced what their plan is, but I don't care about that. Just have some kind of consistent plan and stick with it - don't go acquiring veterans on one hand, then dumping other salaries on the other.

redsfan4445
08-03-2009, 12:34 PM
I feel if the Cubs sweep the Reds and the Reds look very bad, Walt will be forced to make a change. Why not let Rick Sweet be the interim manager and he can bring with him players and coaches he feels is ready. And get rid of the whole coaching staff. dont hold on to any past losing coaches. That has been the cheap theme since 2000!!
any new manager needs to pick his own coaches. No more holdovers!!

princeton
08-03-2009, 12:39 PM
I think they need to establish a plan - whether it be rebuiling or trying to "win now" follow it and stick to it.

The Show is all for show.

there's a 2015 plan ;)

IowaRed
08-03-2009, 12:45 PM
have the Reds improved under this manager? Are they executing better than before he arrived, baserunning, fielding, communicating? Are the players being put in the best position to succeed, for both themselves and for the team? Does the handling of the lineup and pitching staff generally maximize each player's ability for the good of the team? I don't think it's hard to blame the manager at all, for some things

nate
08-03-2009, 12:50 PM
I feel if the Cubs sweep the Reds and the Reds look very bad, Walt will be forced to make a change. Why not let Rick Sweet be the interim manager and he can bring with him players and coaches he feels is ready. And get rid of the whole coaching staff. dont hold on to any past losing coaches. That has been the cheap theme since 2000!!
any new manager needs to pick his own coaches. No more holdovers!!

Because the coaching staff isn't the main problem.

The players are the main problem.

IowaRed
08-03-2009, 12:54 PM
by the way, I don't think the manager is the main problem with this team although he is part of it. My previous post was meant as questions that I think should be asked when evaluating a manager, any manager for any team, and whether they should stay around

M2
08-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Does the Rolen trade qualify?

I'd say so.

Big Klu
08-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Fire Dusty.

Tank it for the number 2 pick.

Draft either Strasburg or Harper.

;)

You cannot imagine the firestorm that would come out of the Commissioner's Office if a club actually tried to do that. MLB would likely assume control of the franchise.

Eric_the_Red
08-03-2009, 02:08 PM
You cannot imagine the firestorm that would come out of the Commissioner's Office if a club actually tried to do that. MLB would likely assume control of the franchise.

Where's the downside? ;)

Reds4Life
08-03-2009, 02:10 PM
I'm not a big fan of Dusty Baker.

Given the fact 1/3 of the roster is on the DL, I'm not sure what else he can do at this point. This team is just bad, and that is the reality. Replacing him with yet another interm manager isn't going to change that. Plus, the Reds would still have to pay him, which isn't going to happen.

As good, or as bad, as it might be, Dusty isn't going anywhere.

Big Klu
08-03-2009, 02:14 PM
Where's the downside? ;)

The downside is that clubs under MLB control have a nasty habit of getting relocated.

And if you don't like the way Bob Cast spends money, how much do you think Bud's office is going to spend?

Ltlabner
08-03-2009, 02:16 PM
Don't worry, Walt was playing for 2010 all along.

fearofpopvol1
08-03-2009, 03:03 PM
The way to deal with any season that's gone into the toilet is to insist that next year starts today. Put players worth watching on the field. Play a more enjoyable brand of baseball. Those are the things you can do.

yep...and give the youngens who are supposed to be part of the future a chance to play in some meaningful games. they'll have a leg up going into next season.

HokieRed
08-03-2009, 03:03 PM
I'd say so.


Agree.

WVRedsFan
08-03-2009, 03:07 PM
I feel if the Cubs sweep the Reds and the Reds look very bad, Walt will be forced to make a change. Why not let Rick Sweet be the interim manager and he can bring with him players and coaches he feels is ready. And get rid of the whole coaching staff. dont hold on to any past losing coaches. That has been the cheap theme since 2000!!
any new manager needs to pick his own coaches. No more holdovers!!
Heck, let's bring back Dave Miley. That worked well. Better yet, bring back Jerry Narron. He almost made it to .500;).

BuckeyeRedleg
08-03-2009, 03:34 PM
They never should have gotten rid of Pete Mackanin.

hebroncougar
08-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Don't worry, Walt was playing for 2010 all along.

Yeah........that's why he gave Taveras that 2nd on his contract.;)

Big Klu
08-03-2009, 04:15 PM
They never should have gotten rid of Pete Mackanin.

However, if they had kept Mackanin (and I liked Pete, too), there would have been an uproar of almost biblical proportions of how the Reds were doing "the same old thing" by promoting an interim manager to a full-time position. They had done it with Miley and Narron, and doing so with Mackanin would have been perceived by the media and the masses as "more of the same".

Marc D
08-03-2009, 05:16 PM
You cannot imagine the firestorm that would come out of the Commissioner's Office if a club actually tried to do that. MLB would likely assume control of the franchise.


Well its not like you send them an email announcing your intentions to punt. What are they going to say, something seems fishy about the losing this year as opposed to the last 15?

This franchise is so inept they'd likely start making good moves and winning if they tried to punt.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-03-2009, 05:24 PM
However, if they had kept Mackanin (and I liked Pete, too), there would have been an uproar of almost biblical proportions of how the Reds were doing "the same old thing" by promoting an interim manager to a full-time position. They had done it with Miley and Narron, and doing so with Mackanin would have been perceived by the media and the masses as "more of the same".

They need to quit worrying about what everyone thinks and start building a decent franchise.

Allocating $10.5 million on Dusty Baker was not the best use of limited company resources. It was an unoriginal and weak acquisition, much like the WT debacle, in which many on this board saw coming and warned of the consequences.