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View Full Version : 8/3/09 - Reds vs. Baby Bears



Tom Servo
08-03-2009, 07:27 PM
Taveras CF
Rosales 3B
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Nix LF
Gomes RF
Hanigan C
Janish SS
Harang P

the opposition:

Fukudome CF
Theriot SS
Lee 1B
Ramirez 3B
Bradley RF
Soriano LF
Fontenot 2B
Hill C
R. Wells P (7-4, 2.84 ERA)

BRM
08-03-2009, 07:33 PM
Dusty says Rolen has a headache. No concussion though. Gonzalez is just getting the night off.

Far East
08-03-2009, 07:35 PM
No Rolen at 3B?

No Sutton at 3B? He of 2 hits yesterday. I guess he'll be the lefty PH off the bench.

dsmith421
08-03-2009, 07:56 PM
The braying jackass hitting leadoff is now at .240/.279/.290 with an OPS+ of 49.

Red in Chicago
08-03-2009, 08:10 PM
The braying jackass hitting leadoff is now at .240/.279/.290 with an OPS+ of 49.

let's not start this already, please

GAC
08-03-2009, 08:11 PM
Good to see Dusty returned to his senses and dropped Hanigan back to the bottom of the order while putting Aro second. I was starting to worry. ;)

chat is open!

reds44
08-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Harang is throwing hard early on.

Nice DP turned by Rosales and BP.

Tom Servo
08-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Very nice play by Rosales.

reds44
08-03-2009, 08:19 PM
2 pitch out from WT.

CTA513
08-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Harang is throwing hard early on.

Nice DP turned by Rosales and BP.

Don't know how he will pitch tonight but its good to see him throwing harder early instead of waiting until the team is down.

CTA513
08-03-2009, 08:31 PM
3-0 Cubs

reds44
08-03-2009, 08:31 PM
We should just stick a fork in Harang. Give him TJ too.

CTA513
08-03-2009, 08:33 PM
We should just stick a fork in Harang. Give him TJ too.

Just give the whole pitching staff TJ surgery.

REDSEER
08-03-2009, 08:38 PM
Looks like Harang is risking his location by pitching with his best stuff tonight....I've seen the fastball at 94 numerous times and the slider looks like it has more downward movement on it than I've seen in recent starts.

reds44
08-03-2009, 08:42 PM
1 pitch, 2 outs from Gomes.

flyer85
08-03-2009, 09:19 PM
nice to see taveras back ... just reinforces that this team learns nothing

flyer85
08-03-2009, 09:24 PM
even the announcers are making fun of the Reds

dsmith421
08-03-2009, 09:31 PM
It's not that the Reds are abysmal--and they are--it's that they are just unbelievably boring. Horrible at-bat after horrible at-bat by sub-replacement level player, lazy defense, and the odd 3-run bomb by the opponent. Basically the games run together. It's just not any fun to watch.

Tom Servo
08-03-2009, 09:43 PM
Harang actually looks really good tonight. Too bad he served up that meatball and can't get any runs.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:02 PM
Why the hell do you let Janish hit there?

And anybody who wants Paul Janish as this teams SS really needs to have their head examined. He just refused to walk.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:04 PM
'an underwater swing'

that's the best definition I've heard of Janish's swing so far. Someone tell Jacoby to throw him a life preserver, please.

HokieRed
08-03-2009, 10:04 PM
Why on earth did Janish not have a take at 2-0?

VR
08-03-2009, 10:06 PM
Why on earth did Janish not have a take at 2-0?

Because it was a ball?

A perfect example of terrible plate discipline under Jacoby/ Dusty's eye. At some point you have to quit questioning every players common sense, and start asking what the organization teaches and tolerates.

Tony Cloninger
08-03-2009, 10:07 PM
Did anyone hear CW's beyond belief comment about why he thinks Hanigan is not batting higher in the lineup?

How good must that Kool-Aid really be?

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:07 PM
lol 113 pitches

LEAVE HIM OUT THERE

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:08 PM
That's why we're paying Busty all that money.

CrackerJack
08-03-2009, 10:09 PM
This is beyond sickening, listening to the Cubs fans on TV, it's just ridiculous.

I hope Bob C is watching.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:09 PM
This is disgusting. This franchise has become a joke.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:09 PM
lol 113 pitches

LEAVE HIM OUT THERE

Dusty "hey Aaron, you look spent, I need to pull you"

Aaron "no, I'm good skip"

Dusty " oh, ok, have at it"

HokieRed
08-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Because it was a ball?

A perfect example of terrible plate discipline under Jacoby/ Dusty's eye. At some point you have to quit questioning every players common sense, and start asking what the organization teaches and tolerates.


He should have had a take, end of story. The pitcher's spot is up next; you're going to pinch hit, his best chance to get on is with a W.

CrackerJack
08-03-2009, 10:10 PM
Dusty "hey Aaron, you look spent, I need to pull you"

Aaron "no, I'm good skip"

Dusty " oh, ok, have at it"

Player's manager.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:11 PM
He should have had a take, end of story. The pitcher's spot is up next; you're going to pinch hit, his best chance to get on is with a W.

sorry, forgot the ;)

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:11 PM
So why wouldn't you leave Harang in to do this?

Always Red
08-03-2009, 10:13 PM
I voted "no" on that poll on ORG about whether Dusty was ruining these pitchers or not.

I want to change my vote after this little episode here in the 8th.

There was absolutely NOTHING to gain by leaving Harang in the game there. Nothing but more hits, and a possible sore arm.

or worse.

I'm at a loss with this entire organization. When it rains, it stinkin pours.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:13 PM
So why wouldn't you leave Harang in to do this?

Quit trying to make sense. Just stop it.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:13 PM
Lee was 4/26 in his career against Weathers, and he left Harang in.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:14 PM
Soriano is going yard.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-03-2009, 10:15 PM
This is beyond sickening, listening to the Cubs fans on TV, it's just ridiculous.

I hope Bob C is watching.

I think Bob C is disappointed there's not MORE cubs fans at the yard. This is one of the last few remaining home dates where they can actually sell tickets.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:16 PM
Who couldn't see Weathers being able to throw strikes when his first 4 pitches are balls?

VR
08-03-2009, 10:20 PM
Weathers gets out of it. I feel like they just clinched the pennant......is that bad?

CarolinaRedleg
08-03-2009, 10:23 PM
A little role reversal....Gonzalez then Taveras.

Bet it's the same end result though:thumbdown

VR
08-03-2009, 10:23 PM
Weathers gets thrown out for being a Red.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:24 PM
Seabass.

4-1

VR
08-03-2009, 10:25 PM
On fire, that's 2 dingers in 149 at bats now. :thumbup:

Tony Cloninger
08-03-2009, 10:26 PM
Great....now AG is back and can hit 2nd again.

CarolinaRedleg
08-03-2009, 10:26 PM
Half right....we can always count on Willy T sucking, can't we?

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:27 PM
Half right....we can always count on Willy T sucking, can't we?
Worst hitter I've ever seen on the Reds.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:27 PM
Lou "Randy, you look tired, I'm taking you out"

Randy "I'm actually feeling good skip"

Lou "too bad, get your a&$ to the bench, now"

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:27 PM
Lou "Randy, you look tired, I'm taking you out"

Randy "I'm actually feeling good skip"

Lou "too bad, get your a&$ to the bench, now"
Lou sucks too.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:29 PM
Tying run up.

BP mashes lefties....

VR
08-03-2009, 10:30 PM
Nice acting job by Votto.

I hope Rolen has a bat for Nix.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:30 PM
Phillips is slow.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:31 PM
"Reds Fever: Catch the Swine Flu"

REDSEER
08-03-2009, 10:31 PM
Unbelievable

HokieRed
08-03-2009, 10:31 PM
Our 4 hitter delivers, again.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:32 PM
Not lost on the 'our players suck' argument.....Phillips swings at a 1-0 ball to hit that DP>

Absolutely tragic when it comes to plate presence for this team.

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:33 PM
Tying run up.

BP mashes lefties....


Mashed that 1st pitch to 3rd.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:33 PM
The hitters suck. They have bad ABs, because they suck.

Get better players, see better ABs. Simple.

CarolinaRedleg
08-03-2009, 10:34 PM
"Reds Fever: Catch the Swine Flu"

Thanks for the signature. :beerme:

VR
08-03-2009, 10:37 PM
The hitters suck. They have bad ABs, because they suck.

Get better players, see better ABs. Simple.

To an extent 44, yes. But why do the StL Cards continually have minor leagues and marginal players come up and understand what plate approach is?

Talent is great, but talent without direction is guaranteed to not be maximized.

The thought that they just need "a whole new roster" isn't gonna solve much.


"without vision the people perish"

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:40 PM
To an extent 44, yes. But why do the StL Cards continually have minor leagues and marginal players come up and understand what plate approach is?

Talent is great, but talent without direction is guaranteed to not be maximized.

The thought that they just need "a whole new roster" isn't gonna solve much.


"without vision the people perish"
I don't disagree with you.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:41 PM
48 walks in 51 innings for Marmol.

Anyone think the boys will have any patience?

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:42 PM
To an extent 44, yes. But why do the StL Cards continually have minor leagues and marginal players come up and understand what plate approach is?



Maybe we better raid the Cards for our next GM... oh, wait. :(

VR
08-03-2009, 10:43 PM
"lol" at that 2-1 swing.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:43 PM
Nix has yet to see a strike.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:43 PM
How do you walk Laynce Nix?

JUST DON'T SWING THE BAT.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:43 PM
It takes 5 balls.....but Nix WALKS!

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:45 PM
And Gomes swings at ball 4.

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:45 PM
Funny how the announcers plead for plate discipline now when they regularly poo-poohed it before this season.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:46 PM
Gomes strikes out on ball 4. Nasty, nasty slider.,...I'll give him a little benefit of the doubt.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:47 PM
Don't swing, please.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Tying run up.

Where is Rolen?

VR
08-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Don't swing, please.

lol, that's what I was thinking.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Come on Wlad.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2009, 10:49 PM
Why would you swing if you have less than 2 strikes?!? Seriously, why in the hell swing? He WILL walk you.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:50 PM
Welsh compares Wlad to Ruben Mateo. Ouch.

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:50 PM
Welsh compares Wlad to Ruben Mateo. Ouch.

I was thinking the same thing.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:50 PM
That ball was asking to be hit.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:51 PM
It may have been a pitch to hit Chris, but it was ball 3.

ayeayeyayay

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:51 PM
Everytime we play the Cubs we have a fake rally.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:52 PM
Ballgame.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2009, 10:52 PM
Your 2009 Reds: Inept and overmatched! Catch the fever!

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:54 PM
Gonzo hangs in there.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2009, 10:55 PM
Gonzo hangs in there.

Doesn't even matter. Tavares is on deck. Seriously it truly doesn't matter.

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:56 PM
It's Rolen time.

Helluva AB by Gonzo.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2009, 10:56 PM
If Tavares bats, I turn the game off.

VR
08-03-2009, 10:56 PM
That may be Gonzo's best at bat since he's been a Red. All over every pitch.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2009, 10:56 PM
Yup, I quit.

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:56 PM
I say Willie is out within 2 pitches

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:56 PM
How are you not PHing??

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:57 PM
What a complete joke.

What a joke.

Just wow.

SirFelixCat
08-03-2009, 10:57 PM
Lololololololololol!

Chip R
08-03-2009, 10:57 PM
I say Willie is out within 2 pitches

Sometimes I hate being right. :(

flyer85
08-03-2009, 10:57 PM
a fitting end for Dusty

reds44
08-03-2009, 10:58 PM
Yeah, Dusty needs to be fired.

NC Reds
08-03-2009, 10:58 PM
It's too bad we don't have any outfielders at AAA to replace Taveras. Oh wait....

Tom Servo
08-03-2009, 10:58 PM
Why was Taveras even allowed to bat in that situation?

flyer85
08-03-2009, 11:01 PM
Why was Taveras even allowed to bat in that situation?
he won't clog the bases.

Big Klu
08-03-2009, 11:23 PM
Why was Taveras even allowed to bat in that situation?

I was figuring on Rolen to PH, but maybe his head really does hurt bad enough that he's unavailable.

In that case, why not Sutton? Taveras has no pop in his bat whatsoever.

CTA513
08-03-2009, 11:28 PM
I had to leave so I didn't get to finish watching the game.
How did Harang look after that giving up that 3 run homer?
Also from the game thread it looks like another starter was left in longer then he should have been.

reds1869
08-03-2009, 11:34 PM
I simply started laughing when I saw Willy T walk up to bat. Sometimes you just have to shake your head and have a chuckle.

MrCinatit
08-03-2009, 11:37 PM
Harang certainly is nowhere near where he was two years ago - but in my opinion, on a real ball club with real offense and a real defense behind him, no way is his record 5-13.

CTA513
08-03-2009, 11:50 PM
Harang certainly is nowhere near where he was two years ago - but in my opinion, on a real ball club with real offense and a real defense behind him, no way is his record 5-13.

If he shows up with the fastball and slider I saw early in the game then he'll have a chance to win more games.
If he shows up with his fastball around 88-91 mph and the crappy slider then he'll get knocked around more.
Even with the mistake to Fontenout he still looked better in the couple of innings I was able to watch then he has most of the season.

UKFlounder
08-03-2009, 11:52 PM
Harang was decent enough for 7 innings - should have left the game then, of course, but once it was 3-0, nobody felt the Reds could win.

I was pleasantly surprised their offense put up somewhat of a fight in the last 2 innings. They didn't get it done, but Gonzalez's bat in the 9th was pretty fun to watch, and they did go down with a fight. After the first 2 or 3 innings, I was thinking they would not even do that much.

It was the first game I attended this year, and it was a very pleasant night weather-wise. The moon over right field was a nice sight.

The Cub fans were - well, Cub fans. At least I knew what to expect.

Oh well.

durl
08-03-2009, 11:54 PM
Harang certainly is nowhere near where he was two years ago - but in my opinion, on a real ball club with real offense and a real defense behind him, no way is his record 5-13.

I completely agree. While he's prone to make BIG mistakes lately, he's rarely given a lead with which to work. And his mistakes are amplified because a 2-run homer will pretty much guarantee a win for the opponent.

Honestly, I'd rather see the Reds bring up a bunch of AAA guys to finish the year. I seriously doubt they'd lose as often and it would be more fun to watch.

KronoRed
08-04-2009, 12:21 AM
Why was Taveras even allowed to bat in that situation?

Because Dusty, while not being to blame for a lot this steams problems, favors "his" guys, no matter what.

It's irritating and obvious when he does it.

KoryMac5
08-04-2009, 12:39 AM
It's really embarrassing to see 22,222 seats sold and more than half of them were wearing blue tonight. I could only listen to the sound for the first inning and I honestly thought the Reds were on the road. Your home field is a place where you are supposed to feel comfortable as a fan. I feel sorry for folks who went tonight and had to be subjected to this. Walt needs to call up the kids and give the fans a better product because this garbage we are getting is unwatchable.

Reds Fanatic
08-04-2009, 01:14 AM
I was figuring on Rolen to PH, but maybe his head really does hurt bad enough that he's unavailable.

In that case, why not Sutton? Taveras has no pop in his bat whatsoever. From Fay's blog. Apparently Rolen was hurt bad enough that he was unavailable and Dusty did not want to use Sutton.


--Scott Rolen was not avaiable to pinch-hit for Willy Taveras in the ninth. He's still feeling the effects of getting hit in the head by the pitch Sunday. Drew Sutton was the other choice. "I'm not sending the kid up there in that situation," Dusty Baker said.


Yes Dusty don't put a kid up in that situation it is so much better to put a veteran automatic out up in that situation.

reds44
08-04-2009, 01:47 AM
So when do you put Sutton up there in that situation?

WVRedsFan
08-04-2009, 01:52 AM
For the first time in memory, I was home, had nothing to do, a perfectly good HD TV and XM radio in the house, and I wasn't even tempted to watch or listen to the Reds. It scares me, but I do not think I am alone. After last year's purge of Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey, Jr. for pitching (yep...those deals come down to Dunn for Owings and Griffey for Massett), we were left with an emasculated offense. And the Reds did nothing about it. B-o-r-i-n-g. As much as some say they love good pitching, you cannot win without scoring runs.

There are two real hitters on this team. Joey Votto and Scott Rolen. Period. Phillips, Gonzo, Nix, and Gomes are hackers. They never met a pitch they didn't think they could hit out of the ballpark. Consequently, they ground, pop, fly, ground, and strike out a lot. I would venture to say that of that group, only Phillips could be considered above replacement level and that's mostly because of his fielding. The guys we've lost on offense -- Bruce (he's young and he'll be a sooperstar! Count on it), Hairston, Dickerson, and Hernandez weren't that much better. The Reds had a great opportunity to obtain a hitter last winter but decided pitching was more valuable and didn't pull the trigger. The result? Horribly boring baseball. My father used to say that the Reds from 1940-1960 didn't win games but they kept you entertained. This team couldn't entertain a 4-year old.

So, I sat this one out and I'll probably sit out most of the rest of the season. Oh, I'll check the score and I'll stop by occasionally, but this season and the way it was handled has sucked the life out of me as far as the Reds are concerned. The Reds have scored 60 runs in their last 18 games--an average of 3.3. For the season, they've scored 414 runs--an average of 3.94. Think about it. The Reds must hold teams to 2 or fewer runs if they expect to win. It's not possible. Someone in the FO forgot that you need offense and you do not need horrible players just because they are cheap and maybe will have a career year.

I'm done.

WVRedsFan
08-04-2009, 01:53 AM
So when do you put Sutton up there in that situation?

Never. You put a hitter up there. After Votto and Rolen, we don't have any. It makes no difference.

oneupper
08-04-2009, 01:56 AM
An important, but basically "last gasp" At Bat in a meaningless August game for a team in last place is "too much pressure" for a 26 year old who has played baseball most of his life?

Dusty needs to get out more.

reds44
08-04-2009, 01:57 AM
WVRedsFan makes a good point.

We're talking about Drew Sutton against Wily Taveras.

Let that sink in for a minute.

reds44
08-04-2009, 01:57 AM
Remember when Jerry Narron PH with Juan Castro for Josh Hamilton?

Good times.

Big Klu
08-04-2009, 02:26 AM
From Fay's blog. Apparently Rolen was hurt bad enough that he was unavailable and Dusty did not want to use Sutton.



Yes Dusty don't put a kid up in that situation it is so much better to put a veteran automatic out up in that situation.


So when do you put Sutton up there in that situation?


Never. You put a hitter up there. After Votto and Rolen, we don't have any. It makes no difference.


An important, but basically "last gasp" At Bat in a meaningless August game for a team in last place is "too much pressure" for a 26 year old who has played baseball most of his life?

Dusty needs to get out more.

If not Sutton, then why not Arroyo? (I'm only half-kidding.) Taveras hardly ever hits the ball with any kind of authority. Sutton (and Arroyo) can least hit a line drive on occasion.

Ron Madden
08-04-2009, 04:03 AM
I was very upset about Chris Chamblis being fired.

Most folks here thought I was crazy or just being negative.

I was very upset about Dusty Baker being hired.

Many folks here accused me of just being negative.

I was all for keeping Adam Dunn. The majority of this board disagreed.

I was very much against signing Taveras, Many here chanted "We trust in Walt".

This organization has all but proved how inept it is.

Sometimes I ask my self why should I care so much? Why do I keep rooting for this Team?

The answer is that I honestly don't know.

I guess the Cincinnati Reds are as much a part of my DNA as my bone marrow and blood type.

Sad, ain't it? :(

BearcatShane
08-04-2009, 05:01 AM
I was very upset about Chris Chamblis being fired.

Most folks here thought I was crazy or just being negative.

I was very upset about Dusty Baker being hired.

Many folks here accused me of just being negative.

I was all for keeping Adam Dunn. The majority of this board disagreed.

I was very much against signing Taveras, Many here chanted "We trust in Walt".

This organization has all but proved how inept it is.

Sometimes I ask my self why should I care so much? Why do I keep rooting for this Team?

The answer is that I honestly don't know.

I guess the Cincinnati Reds are as much a part of my DNA as my bone marrow and blood type.

Sad, ain't it? :(


Well hell, they should interview you for the GM spot.

But seriously, it does seem like when the majority of Redzone disagree's with a move, we usually end up being right.

Ron Madden
08-04-2009, 05:16 AM
Well hell, they should interview you for the GM spot.



No. I didn't mean to make it sound like that.

;)

RichRed
08-04-2009, 01:02 PM
An important, but basically "last gasp" At Bat in a meaningless August game for a team in last place is "too much pressure" for a 26 year old who has played baseball most of his life?

Dusty needs to get out more.

No one will probably see this post because who wants to relive that game, but I'd also like to point out that the crafty vet Taveras is all of a year and a half older than "the kid" Sutton.

Ron Madden
08-05-2009, 03:35 AM
[QUOTE But seriously, it does seem like when the majority of Redzone disagree's with a move, we usually end up being right.[/QUOTE]

Go back and research my post on RedsZone. I've come closer to being right than you might think.

dsmith421
08-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Go back and research my post on RedsZone. I've come closer to being right than you might think.

Perhaps you should post on some website with people who are more up to your intellectual level, since apparently you are in possession of the key to baseball?