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tommycash
08-03-2009, 11:41 PM
If the Reds continue on this horrible pace, is there a chance that Dusty Bottoms gets the big pink slip at the end of the season?

To me, that could be the only silver lining to this mess of a season.

P.S.
I am not blaming this entire season on Dusty, I just never liked him, and would like to see a change made.

cincrazy
08-03-2009, 11:45 PM
If the Reds continue on this horrible pace, is there a chance that Dusty Bottoms gets the big pink slip at the end of the season?

To me, that could be the only silver lining to this mess of a season.

P.S.
I am not blaming this entire season on Dusty, I just never liked him, and would like to see a change made.

I think it's more realistic that Dusty resigns. I don't think we'll see him fired, not just yet, but I could see him jumping ship at the end of the year. Just watching him in the dugout now you can see his frustration level.

redsfan30
08-03-2009, 11:52 PM
Possible silver lining?

Strassburg.

UKFlounder
08-03-2009, 11:56 PM
We said the same thing about Bob Boone's tenure ending as well. How much better did things get when he was gone?

I think this organizations problems are much bigger than any individual manager, and I'm not sure that another change after this year would do any good. I'm not sure another change is a true "silver lining" - it may be more of another cloud.


If the Reds continue on this horrible pace, is there a chance that Dusty Bottoms gets the big pink slip at the end of the season?

To me, that could be the only silver lining to this mess of a season.

P.S.
I am not blaming this entire season on Dusty, I just never liked him, and would like to see a change made.

George Anderson
08-03-2009, 11:57 PM
Possible silver lining?

Strassburg.

Reports are saying Strasburg wants 50 Million.

If that is the case.....I pass.

cincrazy
08-04-2009, 12:08 AM
There is no way on this Earth we ever sign Strasburg to what he's asking for. And that's not a criticism of this ownership. I would never offer a kid who is a HUGE unknown that much money.

If you're up in arms about Volquez and his arm blowing up, Strasburg getting inked to a huge deal then blowing his arm out in the first year would REALLY cripple our franchise.

Degenerate39
08-04-2009, 12:09 AM
Bryce Harper!!

cincrazy
08-04-2009, 12:12 AM
I can't wait until Pujols is 35 with a bad back and declining power so we can see him in a Reds uniform, also. We have a thing for Cards past their prime... Jocketty, Rolen... can't wait to keep it going :cool:

Raisor
08-04-2009, 12:16 AM
We said the same thing about Bob Boone's tenure ending as well. How much better did things get when he was gone?

I think this organizations problems are much bigger than any individual manager, and I'm not sure that another change after this year would do any good. I'm not sure another change is a true "silver lining" - it may be more of another cloud.

I've heard this line of thinking before. Both with Walt and Dusty. The other side of the coin is, how long do you put up with a bad fit (and I believe that both Walt & Dusty are bad fits with a rebuilding club) if it's not working just so you aren't making too many changes?

If something isn't working, and doesn't look like it's going to be working don't you have to make a move?

KoryMac5
08-04-2009, 12:24 AM
The Reds are paying Dusty 3.5 million dollars a season to manage this train wreck. I can't see a cost conscious team eating that kind of cake. If the Reds struggle next season we may see Dusty replaced but not until than.

Silver lining for me this season is the performance of Daniel Ray Herrara. Kid has been great all year.

redsfan4445
08-04-2009, 12:27 AM
they keep losing, how in the world the owners of the Reds going to convince us they can win with dusty next year?? he isnt a motivator

TheNext44
08-04-2009, 12:31 AM
I've heard this line of thinking before. Both with Walt and Dusty. The other side of the coin is, how long do you put up with a bad fit (and I believe that both Walt & Dusty are bad fits with a rebuilding club) if it's not working just so you aren't making too many changes?

If something isn't working, and doesn't look like it's going to be working don't you have to make a move?

I think Jocketty is a fine fit for a rebuilding process. He did a great job rebuilding the Cardinals, who had gone 53-61 the year before he got there, and 62-81 in his first year. They went to the Playoffs his second year, but then fell on hard times the next three years, going 231-254, before bouncing back with winning seasons 8 of the next 9 years (9 of 10 counting this year).

The fact that the Cards were successful under him for so long, should not count against his "rebuilding" skills.

No argument on Dusty.

Homer Bailey
08-04-2009, 12:32 AM
I think Jocketty is a fine fit for a rebuilding process. He did a great job rebuilding the Cardinals, who had gone 53-61 the year before he got there, and 62-81 in his first year. They went to the Playoffs his second year, but then fell on hard times the next three years, going 231-254, before bouncing back with winning seasons 8 of the next 9 years (9 of 10 counting this year).

The fact that the Cards were successful under him for so long, should not count against his "rebuilding" skills.

No argument on Dusty.

What happened last week was the opposite of rebuilding. He's trying to save his job by winning next year, but he isn't even close to a winning team.

TheNext44
08-04-2009, 12:34 AM
If the Reds continue on this horrible pace, is there a chance that Dusty Bottoms gets the big pink slip at the end of the season?

To me, that could be the only silver lining to this mess of a season.

P.S.
I am not blaming this entire season on Dusty, I just never liked him, and would like to see a change made.

I mentioned earlier that this might be part of Jocketty's large, D. Evil plan. Give Dusty the team that he wants, let it fail, then force Dusty to either change his ways or leave.

I still stand by my original opinion of Dusty. He's actually a very good manager, very smart and very skilled. But absolutely the wrong guy for the team at the time he was hired.

VR
08-04-2009, 12:53 AM
The Reds are paying Dusty 3.5 million dollars a season to manage this train wreck. I can't see a cost conscious team eating that kind of cake. If the Reds struggle next season we may see Dusty replaced but not until than.

Silver lining for me this season is the performance of Daniel Ray Herrara. Kid has been great all year.

It's said when our excitement is wrapped up in a middle reliever.


Ryan Hanigan
Joey Votto
Masset
Rhodes
Weathers
Cordero
to an extent Phillips (gets dinged for cabeza lapses)

cincrazy
08-04-2009, 12:57 AM
I think Jocketty is a fine fit for a rebuilding process. He did a great job rebuilding the Cardinals, who had gone 53-61 the year before he got there, and 62-81 in his first year. They went to the Playoffs his second year, but then fell on hard times the next three years, going 231-254, before bouncing back with winning seasons 8 of the next 9 years (9 of 10 counting this year).

The fact that the Cards were successful under him for so long, should not count against his "rebuilding" skills.

No argument on Dusty.

What you say about Jocketty is correct. But he also had a much better, and more stable, ownership situation in St. Louis.

WVRedsFan
08-04-2009, 03:11 AM
You come to a club with little pitching and spoardic offense. Your two main run producers have to go because of age and/or contracts. You're saddled with two starters, a closer, and a shortstop that should never have been given the contracts they have. And you have no catcher. You have to replace 170 RBI's in your outfield and all the time you have to hope your pitching staff holds up. You can't get rid of those you want, but you try anyway. You deal Freel for a legitimate catcher. You look at the options at short and decide to hope against hope that Gonzalez works out. Your third baseman continues to underachieve. You make a huge mistake on Taveras. Bruce doesn't produce like he's supposed to and you make a mistake hoping that Hairston's 2008 wasn't a fluke. It was. Your young starter gets hurt and the two expensive starters just don't live up to their billing. Then the injuries begin. Disaster personified.

Walt made his mistakes with Taveras and Hairston, but the majority of this mess was here before he came. He wasn't the father of the Gonzo, Hairston, Arroyo, Codero, and Harang contracts. He's made minor mistakes compared to those and is paying for them.

Those big contracts make the players unmovable. He was able to move the Freels and Hairstons, but he'll have to eat the rest. Not a job I'd want.

And what you say about ownership is correct. It's on the job training. Not good.

jojo
08-04-2009, 09:45 AM
It's said when our excitement is wrapped up in a middle reliever.

Ya, and he isn't even tall.

fearofpopvol1
08-04-2009, 01:11 PM
I think if Walt/BCast have the option of nabbing LaRussa/Duncan, they will do it in a heartbeat. Even if that means firing Dusty early. I think that's your best chance of seeing Dusty jettisoned.

Chip R
08-04-2009, 01:19 PM
There is no way on this Earth we ever sign Strasburg to what he's asking for. And that's not a criticism of this ownership. I would never offer a kid who is a HUGE unknown that much money.

If you're up in arms about Volquez and his arm blowing up, Strasburg getting inked to a huge deal then blowing his arm out in the first year would REALLY cripple our franchise.


Not to derail this thread but that kid can't spend the money he's looking for until he actually signs a contract. Unless he's indepentently wealthy or he's got a sugar mama he's going to be needing some money of his own real soon. even if he doesn't sign with the Nats this year, someone like the Bucs or Royals or Padres are going to draft him. None of those teams are swimming in money. Even if Boros gets him to be a free agent, even a deep pockets team is going to be wary about throwing $20-50M on an unproven kid. Strasburg would do well to study up on Matt Harrington.

RedEye
08-04-2009, 05:53 PM
It's true, there have been a lot of downers this year. I still think, though, that the Reds have some bright spots worth noting:

1) A gaggle of good, young players. Despite his struggles earlier in the year, Votto continues to look like a reliable MOTO bat. Phillips continues to give the team great D and good offensive production at 2B. Bruce also plays great D has shown decent patience and make-up despite his combination of bad luck/ freak injury /offensive futility. IMO, these three should continue to be solid regulars for several years. And, with Frazier, Stubbs, Alonso and Heisey on the horizon, I think the team can count on getting a few more of those in the near future. We might even add Hanigan to the list soon, too (even though he's not really so "young" in chronological years).

2) A rapidly improving defense. IIRC, this was the feel-good story of the season until everything had to go all Chinua Achebe on us (anyone ever read Things Fall Apart? For some reason that title keep springing to mind when I think about this season). The recent addition of Rolen, the arrival of Stubbs and/or Heisey, and the acquisition (hopefully) of a competent SS in the off-season should further strengthen this part of the Reds in short order. I can honestly say that I think WJ "gets it" more than any other recent GM when it comes to the importance of catching the ball as well as hitting and pitching it.

3) The likliehood of continued competent pitching. I know the Volquez injury has us all down. I'm not saying we shouldn't be. Heck, I really had dreams that this could be an elite pitching staff this year. But let's not forget that this rotation still runs way deeper than any of the staffs in recent memory. Heck, despite their recent struggles, the healthy trio of Cueto, Arroyo and Harang by themselves upstages most other Reds rotations since the 1980s (possible exceptions include the second half of 1999 and perhaps the scant years where Rijo-Browning-Jackson were all healthy and pitching well). What's more, the 'pen looks solid enough, too--even after the departures of Roenicke and Stewart, the team has a stopper (Cordero), a stopper-in-waiting (Masset), and a bunch of useful parts (Weathers, Rhodes, Herrera, Burton). That's a vast improvement over years past as well. And given the Cards bullpens during his tenure, I think WJ knows how to build continuity in this area.

Okay, that's my best shot at optimism. 2009 may be very well be in the tank--but all, my friends, is far from lost.