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View Full Version : M's turn down Red Sox' advances



thatcoolguy_22
08-05-2009, 01:55 AM
Here (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/113137-ms-rejected-red-sox-offer-for-hernandez)


I'm told the Red Sox apparently approached the Mariners and first tried to do a Hernandez trade with Seattle exclusively. Boston wanted Hernandez and gave the Mariners a list of eight prospects, from which Seattle would be allowed to pick any five. They included: RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro Seattle turned that down.

Seattle Times


Hernandez is a an absolute beast but, really? You pick 5 and completely change your entire team. No way I turn down this offer if I'm Seattle.

I would take 1 for Arroyo :)

Caveat Emperor
08-05-2009, 02:02 AM
Wow.

I like Hernandez, but that's the kind of "I'm blown away" offer that I think you have to take -- adding five legitimate prospects to a system can open up a gigantic window for a team like Seattle, which can add money when needed to compliment in-house talent. Hell, Buccholz, Masterson, and Reddick alone would be a pretty fair offer for most players, IMO.

redsfandan
08-05-2009, 02:18 AM
Here's another article on what almost happened:

Felix & Gonzalez Were Part Of Failed Deal
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [August 3, 2009 at 10:39am CST]
You thought the Jake Peavy deal was a surprise? The Red Sox, Mariners and Padres discussed a trade that would have made the Peavy acquisition look like the Jason Hirsh deal, according to Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times. Baker hears that the Red Sox gave the Mariners the chance to choose five of the following players in exchange for Felix Hernandez:

•Clay Buchholz
•Daniel Bard
•Justin Masterson
•Nick Hagadone
•Michael Bowden
•Felix Doubront
•Josh Reddick
•Yamaico Navarro

The Mariners apparently turned down the deal, at which point the Padres became involved in discussions about a possible three-way trade. The Mariners would have received Adrian Gonzalez, Buchholz and prospects in the deal. They would have sent Felix to the Red Sox and dealt Brandon Morrow, Phillippe Aumont and Carlos Triunfel to the Padres, who would have received prospects from the Red Sox as well. In the end, Baker says the Mariners nixed the deal.

fearofpopvol1
08-05-2009, 02:18 AM
If this is true, the M's may even be a worse franchise than the Reds are. That's saying a lot.

Topcat
08-05-2009, 06:51 AM
Here (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/113137-ms-rejected-red-sox-offer-for-hernandez)




Hernandez is a an absolute beast but, really? You pick 5 and completely change your entire team. No way I turn down this offer if I'm Seattle.

I would take 1 for Arroyo :)

Yikes Seattle is totally nuts if they passed up a shot at 5 of the bunch:eek:. for giggles my 5 for Seattle would have been . Bucholz, bard, Masterson, Bowden, Riddick:thumbup:

jojo
08-05-2009, 10:26 AM
If this is true, the M's may even be a worse franchise than the Reds are. That's saying a lot.

Wouldn't that also make the Redsox even worse than the Reds for making the offer?

The Ms are hoping to extend Felix for a long time but they can always entertain trade offers if it becomes apparent next year that Felix wants to be a FA after 2011.

As to the accuracy of Baker's info, he's a good beat writer but teams use these guys to further their agendas all of the time.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 10:45 AM
We cry and moan about the big market teams poaching all the small market teams' talent and criticize the small market teams for having a fire sale and going cheap. Perhaps the Ms should be admired for not caving under that pressure no matter how tempting an offer that was.

Roy Tucker
08-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Shows you what a good farm system can do for a team.

The Red Sox can offer those 5 players and probably replace the prospects within a year.

blumj
08-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Wouldn't that also make the Redsox even worse than the Reds for making the offer?

The Ms are hoping to extend Felix for a long time but they can always entertain trade offers if it becomes apparent next year that Felix wants to be a FA after 2011.

As to the accuracy of Baker's info, he's a good beat writer but teams use these guys to further their agendas all of the time.
We got the same info out of Boston, at least the part where Theo was on one of his big game/wild goose chases after Felix and/or Adrian. I think the next offer in the offseason gets a little more tempting.

blumj
08-05-2009, 10:56 AM
We cry and moan about the big market teams poaching all the small market teams' talent and criticize the small market teams for having a fire sale and going cheap. Perhaps the Ms should be admired for not caving under that pressure no matter how tempting an offer that was.

I don't think the Mariners are a very good example of a small market, low revenue, or low payroll team. Am I wrong?

blumj
08-05-2009, 11:00 AM
Yikes Seattle is totally nuts if they passed up a shot at 5 of the bunch:eek:. for giggles my 5 for Seattle would have been . Bucholz, bard, Masterson, Bowden, Riddick:thumbup:
This is crazy. Felix is an amazing talent who is still very young. The Mariners have no compelling reason to accept that offer, or any other offer, for him.

jojo
08-05-2009, 11:06 AM
We got the same info out of Boston, at least the part where Theo was on one of his big game/wild goose chases after Felix and/or Adrian. I think the next offer in the offseason gets a little more tempting.

I think Theo calls the Ms asking for Felix at least once a month. Felix is either going to be an M or a Redsock until he retires.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 11:07 AM
I don't think the Mariners are a very good example of a small market, low revenue, or low payroll team. Am I wrong?


They aren't BOS, CHI, NY or LA.

princeton
08-05-2009, 11:15 AM
The Mariners have no compelling reason to accept that offer, or any other offer, for him.

their entire portfolio is in Enron stock.

Nugget
08-05-2009, 11:19 AM
Jeff Baker for some reason has it in for the current M's administration. I would take his information with a grain of salt. I would compare the Washburn trade to what Harang may have gotten.

NJReds
08-05-2009, 11:50 AM
If they had done that deal, then what? A couple of the prospects turn into good ML players and they trade them back to the Red Sox for more prospects? The Mariners can't be the Sox farm system. Good for them for keeping Felix.

TRF
08-05-2009, 12:07 PM
"This is madness!"

"No, This is Seattle!!!!"

That's such a poorly constructed team that really needed a huge infusion of talent. To turn that package down... ugh.

fearofpopvol1
08-05-2009, 12:23 PM
Wouldn't that also make the Redsox even worse than the Reds for making the offer?

The Ms are hoping to extend Felix for a long time but they can always entertain trade offers if it becomes apparent next year that Felix wants to be a FA after 2011.

As to the accuracy of Baker's info, he's a good beat writer but teams use these guys to further their agendas all of the time.

One could say so...but on the other hand, the Red Sox are seemingly always stocked with good to great prospects and have great player development. This looks worse for the M's as opposed to the Red Sox because they are a team with more needs than the Red Sox right now and receiving this many highly touted prospects for 1 player could turn their entire franchise around.

Also, this info has now been posted in multiple places by multiple writers. I'm sure it holds a good level of truth to it.

jojo
08-05-2009, 12:34 PM
"This is madness!"

"No, This is Seattle!!!!"

That's such a poorly constructed team that really needed a huge infusion of talent. To turn that package down... ugh.

Seattle isn't in desperate need of Red Sox prospects. They have a competent FO, a strong player development system, and money resources. Their outlook is pretty good going forward. And ya know what? It's actually fun as heck watching the Ms play.

TRF
08-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Seattle isn't in desperate need of Red Sox prospects. They have a competent FO, a strong player development system, and money resources. Their outlook is pretty good going forward. And ya know what? It's actually fun as heck watching the Ms play.


They are an old team at the MLB level. I thought they were nuts in trading for Bedard, and while my man crush on Russell Branyan is well documented, I doubt he produces like this next year, if he is even there.

I admit I know little about their farm, but I know they gave up a lot for Bedard, who isn't the poster boy for health.

I think it's a bad non-move. Bucholtz and Masterson going to Seattle and doing well with the other three prospects being even average would have made it a nice haul.

Hey, I like the Mariners, just wanted to throw in a little this is sparta. :)

pedro
08-05-2009, 12:46 PM
It's actually fun as heck watching the Ms play.

I beg to differ.

I do like listening to Ron Fairly though.

Nugget
08-05-2009, 02:07 PM
They are an old team at the MLB level. I thought they were nuts in trading for Bedard, and while my man crush on Russell Branyan is well documented, I doubt he produces like this next year, if he is even there.

I admit I know little about their farm, but I know they gave up a lot for Bedard, who isn't the poster boy for health.

I think it's a bad non-move. Bucholtz and Masterson going to Seattle and doing well with the other three prospects being even average would have made it a nice haul.

Hey, I like the Mariners, just wanted to throw in a little this is sparta. :)

Actually they have a young rotation even with Bedard in it. Hernandez, RRW and Luke will be under 27 for next year.

On the playing side Franklin has matured this year, they have issues with LF given Junior's knee is not holding up but Ichiro has been Ichiro. They solidified their shortstop, have an ace 2B and are fairly well covered at 1B and catcher. 3B is their big question mark in that neither prospect is a can't miss and there are questions as to whether Beltre will return.

Their farm has a wealth of 1B/DH prospects which is why they could afford to move on Clement.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 02:42 PM
I'm doubting this report was true. Didn't BOS turn down a deal with TOR for Halliday because TOR wanted Bucholz and other prized prospects? Felix is very good but he's not Halliday.

Rojo
08-05-2009, 02:50 PM
I don't get Seattle moving Washburn, keeping Branyan and adding Wilson. However, I get not moving Hernandez. Bird in the hand.

Nugget
08-05-2009, 04:29 PM
I don't get Seattle moving Washburn, keeping Branyan and adding Wilson. However, I get not moving Hernandez. Bird in the hand.

Washburn is a free agent next year and was a sell high person. Branyan was injured around the trade deadline time - I'm expecting he, Beltre and Bedard may have been moved if they were not injured. As for Wilson he solidifies the SS for at least this year and next.

blumj
08-05-2009, 05:13 PM
I'm doubting this report was true. Didn't BOS turn down a deal with TOR for Halliday because TOR wanted Bucholz and other prized prospects? Felix is very good but he's not Halliday.
I'm absolutely sure Theo would offer more for Felix than for Halladay, that much you can believe.

Oh, and some of the prospects Toronto supposedly wanted weren't on the Seattle list, either, Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland.

Rojo
08-05-2009, 05:34 PM
Washburn is a free agent next year and was a sell high person. Branyan was injured around the trade deadline time - I'm expecting he, Beltre and Bedard may have been moved if they were not injured. As for Wilson he solidifies the SS for at least this year and next.

Didn't know about the injuries. But I still wouldn't add Wilson unless I had a murderer's row in the middle of the lineup.

redsfandan
08-05-2009, 05:49 PM
I'm doubting this report was true. Didn't BOS turn down a deal with TOR for Halliday because TOR wanted Bucholz and other prized prospects? Felix is very good but he's not Halliday.
Halliday is also 32, makes $14.25m this year, could become more expensive soon, and I think I read that he could opt to be a FA after the season if he was dealt. Free agency is looming for Halliday after 2010 at the latest.

But Felix is still only 23, makes $3.8m this year, will become more expensive eventually but not as soon as Halliday, and Felix won't be a FA until 2012 at the soonest.

I like Halliday but I could understand paying more in prospects for Felix.

Raisor
08-05-2009, 05:49 PM
They aren't BOS, CHI, NY or LA.

When they first signed Ichiro, they had the third highest revenue stream in the majors, only behind the two NY teams. Mostly due to a tremendous local cable deal and the returns from SAFECO.

Not sure where they are at now though.

Raisor
08-05-2009, 05:50 PM
I beg to differ.

I do like listening to Ron Fairly though.

Dave Neihous can read the phonebook and sound good doing it, though I admit that might be colored by my youth.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 05:56 PM
When they first signed Ichiro, they had the third highest revenue stream in the majors, only behind the two NY teams. Mostly due to a tremendous local cable deal and the returns from SAFECO.

Not sure where they are at now though.


If you aren't in one of those markets I've mentioned, to fans and the press, you're just a poor cousin and you should be expected to hand over your stars for prospects if those teams come calling.

dsmith421
08-05-2009, 06:24 PM
My first game at Safeco was during the 2000 season, beautiful park, great team, Indians in town. What a wonderful experience. A neighborhood ballpark, bars and restaurants lining the pedestrian walkways from downtown, the most friendly fans in baseball (it being 2000 and me in a Reds cap there were a lot of surprisingly polite comments made). I remember that the umpire made a possibly felonious call against the Mariners and this wave of confusion went through the crowd as they mentally decided whether to boo or not, finally deciding booing would be unseemly and breaking into a spontaneous wave of applause for Mark McLemore or something.

Highlifeman21
08-05-2009, 11:38 PM
They are an old team at the MLB level. I thought they were nuts in trading for Bedard, and while my man crush on Russell Branyan is well documented, I doubt he produces like this next year, if he is even there.

I admit I know little about their farm, but I know they gave up a lot for Bedard, who isn't the poster boy for health.

I think it's a bad non-move. Bucholtz and Masterson going to Seattle and doing well with the other three prospects being even average would have made it a nice haul.

Hey, I like the Mariners, just wanted to throw in a little this is sparta. :)

If you're the President of the Russell Branyan fan club, then can I be Vice President?