PDA

View Full Version : Reds placed Arroyo on trade waivers yesterday



savafan
08-05-2009, 08:03 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/08/05/watch_now_as_teams_do_the_waive/

The Reds put Arroyo on trade waivers yesterday. He would appear to be a starter that would interest both New York and Boston and perhaps a bigger-market NL team like the Dodgers. The Giants, who are below the Dodgers in the standings, could claim Arroyo just to ensure that Los Angeles doesn’t land him. But the Giants would run the risk of winding up with Arroyo, who is owed a pro-rated portion of the $9.5 million he makes the rest of this season, plus $11 million in 2010, and then there’s an $11 million option for 2011 with a $2 million buyout.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 08:09 PM
Big deal. Everyone goes on waivers this time of year.

Joseph
08-05-2009, 08:11 PM
Why is Boston so obsessed with Bronson still?

savafan
08-05-2009, 08:15 PM
Why is Boston so obsessed with Bronson still?

He's the best guitar player in the league? I mean, now that Bernie Williams is retired anyway.

reds44
08-05-2009, 08:17 PM
If somebody claims he or Harang, I'd let them walk.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 08:17 PM
He's the best guitar player in the league? I mean, now that Bernie Williams is retired anyway.

I'm not so sure about that.

Highlifeman21
08-05-2009, 08:24 PM
(keeping fingers crossed that someone claims Arroyo)

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 08:27 PM
I wonder now if either Arroyo or Harang is going to be traded. Not because they can't be, but because next year's rotation is totally threadbare. And we know that this team is not going to compete for FA pitchers in the offseason.

Kc61
08-05-2009, 08:29 PM
I wonder now if either Arroyo or Harang is going to be traded. Not because they can't be, but because next year's rotation is totally threadbare. And we know that this team is not going to compete for FA pitchers in the offseason.

We know nothing of the sort.

This guy Rich Harden pitching tonight for the Cubs. I could easily see the Reds signing him at a lower salary than Arroyo.

They will trade Arroyo if they can and try to sign a better pitcher at recessionary prices.

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 08:31 PM
We know nothing of the sort.

This guy Rich Harden pitching tonight for the Cubs. I could easily see the Reds signing him at a lower salary than Arroyo.

They will trade Arroyo if they can and try to sign a better pitcher at recessionary prices.

This team is at payroll ceiling *even if* they get rid of Arroyo. Lots of folks getting raises.

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 08:32 PM
Justin Lehr: current Reds' ace. lol

Johnny Footstool
08-05-2009, 08:36 PM
He's the best guitar player in the league? I mean, now that Bernie Williams is retired anyway.

Zito is better.

Kc61
08-05-2009, 08:38 PM
This team is at payroll ceiling *even if* they get rid of Arroyo. Lots of folks getting raises.

Sheer speculation. Not buying it.

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 08:42 PM
Sheer speculation. Not buying it.

Maybe. But I'd love to know the last time the Reds went toe to toe with other teams to sign FAs that would certainly help. (No, I'm not talking about leftovers that everyone avoided like Milton).

This team isn't signing any starter FAs.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 08:43 PM
Maybe. But I'd love to know the last time the Reds went toe to toe with other teams to sign FAs that would certainly help. (No, I'm not talking about leftovers that everyone avoided like Milton).


:lol:

Highlifeman21
08-05-2009, 08:44 PM
We know nothing of the sort.

This guy Rich Harden pitching tonight for the Cubs. I could easily see the Reds signing him at a lower salary than Arroyo.

They will trade Arroyo if they can and try to sign a better pitcher at recessionary prices.

I'd be surprised if the Reds got Harden to sign to play for the Reds for under $10 Mil a year. I think it would take probably at least $12 Mil a year for Harden to be a Red, which is why he won't be a Red.

However, I could see him signing a deal for less than $10 Mil a year to play for a winner. Since Cincy isn't a winner, I don't see him signing for a "bargain rate".

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 08:46 PM
I'd be surprised if the Reds got Harden to sign to play for the Reds for under $10 Mil a year. I think it would take probably at least $12 Mil a year for Harden to be a Red, which is why he won't be a Red.

However, I could see him signing a deal for less than $10 Mil a year to play for a winner. Since Cincy isn't a winner, I don't see him signing for a "bargain rate".

Plus, the guy seems kind of like--how shall I say?--a schmuck.

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 08:50 PM
I take a perverse joy in watching some AAAA scrub absolutely schooling these "MLB" pitchers we have. :thumbup:

How many times over would any other stiff on this staff have surrendered this lead?

Kc61
08-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Non-superstar free agent prices have dropped. Reds could get somebody pretty good for cheaper than the Arroyo deal. Different environment right now.

Chip R
08-05-2009, 08:52 PM
Non-superstar free agent prices have dropped. Reds could get somebody pretty good for cheaper than the Arroyo deal. Different environment right now.


Probably but all it takes is one idiot team to jack up the price.

Highlifeman21
08-05-2009, 08:54 PM
Non-superstar free agent prices have dropped. Reds could get somebody pretty good for cheaper than the Arroyo deal. Different environment right now.

Teams will still overpay the market rate for pitching.

Position players, not so much.

Kc61
08-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Teams will still overpay the market rate for pitching.

Position players, not so much.

Harden has control issues and apparently has to be on a pitch count because of his injury history. I don't see him as a ten million dollar pitcher.

If the Reds beat him tonight, his value will drop based on that alone.

KronoRed
08-05-2009, 09:01 PM
If somebody claims he or Harang, I'd let them walk.

I can't see that happening that would look bad for Big Bob "Reds give away fan favorite Arroyo"

cincrazy
08-05-2009, 09:04 PM
Harden has control issues and apparently has to be on a pitch count because of his injury history. I don't see him as a ten million dollar pitcher.

If the Reds beat him tonight, his value will drop based on that alone.

But he has 10 million dollar stuff. And that's all that matters.

Tom Servo
08-05-2009, 09:06 PM
Maybe. But I'd love to know the last time the Reds went toe to toe with other teams to sign FAs that would certainly help. (No, I'm not talking about leftovers that everyone avoided like Milton).

This team isn't signing any starter FAs.
We swooped in and took CoCo from the Brewers.



Probably wasn't the best idea in the world though.

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 09:07 PM
About the only thing that diminishes FA pitchers' value is an injury.

Falls City Beer
08-05-2009, 09:08 PM
We swooped in and took CoCo from the Brewers.



Probably wasn't the best idea in the world though.

Yeah, I should have been specific--starters is what I mean. Heck, this club has gone ape-crap over FA relievers. True.

RedEye
08-05-2009, 10:45 PM
This guy Rich Harden pitching tonight for the Cubs. I could easily see the Reds signing him at a lower salary than Arroyo.


Yeah, just what we need: another pitcher on the DL with Volquez.

cincrazy
08-05-2009, 10:54 PM
Yeah, just what we need: another pitcher on the DL with Volquez.

I hear Mark Prior is available ;).

HokieRed
08-05-2009, 11:18 PM
Maybe. But I'd love to know the last time the Reds went toe to toe with other teams to sign FAs that would certainly help. (No, I'm not talking about leftovers that everyone avoided like Milton).

This team isn't signing any starter FAs.


Just an historical note to start with: there was hardly anything but leftovers in that year's market: Odalis Perez, Matt Clement, Russ Ortiz etc. But anyway, seems to me the conundrum's illustrated by your post above: we've got to be able to improve on Arroyo with the amount we'll get back after we pay part of his deal--and, not being as hopeful as Kc, I think that's going to be very hard to do. I'd rate the chances of doing that to be about as high as those of Lehr becoming Rick Reed or Bob Tewskbury, which he just might be.

TheNext44
08-05-2009, 11:29 PM
Simply losing Arroyo off waivers saves the Reds around $15M this year and next. If someone takes him, I can't imagine the Reds don't let him go. They probably can work out at trade for something, look what Jocketty got for Jr. and he was less valuable.

The smart move would be to pay this years salary, get a decent return, maybe even a back end starter, and then use that $11M to get someone better than Arroyo. A good #2 starter can be had for around $30-35M over three years. Back end the deal, and it's very doable.

HokieRed
08-05-2009, 11:36 PM
Next 44, give us some names of #2 guys you'd target.

Mario-Rijo
08-06-2009, 01:15 AM
Simply losing Arroyo off waivers saves the Reds around $15M this year and next. If someone takes him, I can't imagine the Reds don't let him go. They probably can work out at trade for something, look what Jocketty got for Jr. and he was less valuable.

The smart move would be to pay this years salary, get a decent return, maybe even a back end starter, and then use that $11M to get someone better than Arroyo. A good #2 starter can be had for around $30-35M over three years. Back end the deal, and it's very doable.

With all the youth on this team I'd not backload any deal done in the next offseason I'd probably frontload the deal if I could get someone to agree to it. That way when alot these youngsters are ready to sign a deal we can still have a guy like that reasonably priced. Problem is I can't see any legitimate #2 starter getting less than 12-13 million a year or more right now. 3 yrs is more like 45 million now a days.

TheNext44
08-06-2009, 01:41 AM
With all the youth on this team I'd not backload any deal done in the next offseason I'd probably frontload the deal if I could get someone to agree to it. That way when alot these youngsters are ready to sign a deal we can still have a guy like that reasonably priced. Problem is I can't see any legitimate #2 starter getting less than 12-13 million a year or more right now. 3 yrs is more like 45 million now a days.

I have no clue about the Reds future, so maybe backend deals are bad. It was just a thought.

I don't think anyone knows what the Free Agent market will be this off season. Maybe your right. But if that is the case, then Arroyo is paid pretty fairly and the Reds might as well keep him.

I personally think you will see more deals like Abreu got than what Derek Lowe got. Fangraphs is now using $4.4M as the cost of a win, down from $10M last year. We saw it at the end of the free agent season last year, and I think it will continue going down, but it's just a guess.

TheNext44
08-06-2009, 01:46 AM
Next 44, give us some names of #2 guys you'd target.

Pineiro, Washburn, Lackey.

Duchscherer, Escobar and Bedard, depending on their health.

redsfandan
08-06-2009, 06:24 AM
(keeping fingers crossed that someone claims Arroyo)
x2

With all the youth on this team I'd not backload any deal done in the next offseason I'd probably frontload the deal if I could get someone to agree to it. That way when alot these youngsters are ready to sign a deal we can still have a guy like that reasonably priced. Problem is I can't see any legitimate #2 starter getting less than 12-13 million a year or more right now. 3 yrs is more like 45 million now a days.
Of course the player would agree to frontload a contract cuz it would help him out more than the Reds. After 1 season the player could do whatever they wanted cuz they were paid so much in the 1st year. Frontloading a contract is very unlikely anyway considering where the 2010 payroll is now. Backloading would depend on how you do it but I'd definitely use it as a way to sign a player if it made sense. In 2011/2012 we'll lose the big contracts of Harang, Arroyo, and Cordero which will help things alot. Even if Rolen is still around he won't be making $11m/yr. The young guys will still get their money.

princeton
08-06-2009, 06:28 AM
Non-superstar free agent prices have dropped. Reds could get somebody pretty good for cheaper than the Arroyo deal. Different environment right now.

next time that the Reds take advantage of free agent market shifts will be their first. this is the organization that dismantled a Machine in order to "save" baseball. and it's been one thing after another ever since. we don't go into Latin America, the place for cheap talent, until the prices are sky high, for instance.

redsfan4445
08-06-2009, 08:12 AM
First of all, I Do NOT belive this story. Lance interviewed Walt before yesterdays game and was asked about anybody calling about Arroyo, Harang and Cordero.
He said no, because he hadnt put anybody thru the waiver process yet. So whoever blogged this, wasnt telling the truth..

edabbs44
08-06-2009, 08:15 AM
Pineiro, Washburn, Lackey.

Duchscherer, Escobar and Bedard, depending on their health.

Depending on the $$$, Duch would be a very interesting target. Lackey would be as well. Maybe Escobar.

The others, not so much.

bucksfan2
08-06-2009, 08:26 AM
Pineiro, Washburn, Lackey.

Duchscherer, Escobar and Bedard, depending on their health.

If the Reds wanted to take a risk I would go after Webb. I believe he has an option year next season, work out a trade and sign type deal with him.

Harden also would be a good target. Guy only is a 6 inning 100 pitch pitcher, but with a good pen that would work.

I would also think about Ben Sheets to an incentive laden contract.

HokieRed
08-06-2009, 08:42 AM
Jason Marquis?

RedlegJake
08-06-2009, 11:58 AM
Well , I think we should trade for Brandon Wheeler, sign Rich Harden, give Mulder a shot and keep Volquez. Then we'd at least have the best rotation in baseball that doesn't play.

fearofpopvol1
08-06-2009, 01:37 PM
Yeah, I should have been specific--starters is what I mean. Heck, this club has gone ape-crap over FA relievers. True.

At least CoCo, while expensive (and probably overpaid), has performed. He has been great since he's been a Red.

LincolnparkRed
08-06-2009, 01:39 PM
At least CoCo, while expensive (and probably overpaid), has performed. He has been great since he's been a Red.
Think Nats territory if we hadn't signed him over the past two years

Kc61
08-06-2009, 01:43 PM
next time that the Reds take advantage of free agent market shifts will be their first. this is the organization that dismantled a Machine in order to "save" baseball. and it's been one thing after another ever since. we don't go into Latin America, the place for cheap talent, until the prices are sky high, for instance.

My personal view is that Bob C is facing a cross-roads here. His regime has turned out entirely opposite to what he expected and announced publicly. Despite the historical background you note, I believe he will make a number of veteran pickups in the off-season, including at least one significant pick up.

Don't know how it will work out, and this is entirely speculation, but sometimes ego and pride can be as important as money. So once again I have relatively high expectations. I have been disappointed before.

Benihana
08-06-2009, 01:55 PM
So when will we know if he cleared waivers?

I(heart)Freel
08-06-2009, 03:00 PM
This team is at payroll ceiling *even if* they get rid of Arroyo. Lots of folks getting raises.

Not so much...

With Arroyo, there are 8 contracts totaling $61.75 mill. God forbid if the rest of the squad made league min, that would total $68.55.

WITHOUT Arroyo, there would be 7 contracts totaling $50.75 mill. Filling out the squad with league mins would bring total to $57.95.

Team payroll could be assumed to be around $74 mill again.

So with Arroyo, there's <$6 mill to play with.
Without Arroyo, there could be about $16 to play with.

TheNext44
08-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Not so much...

With Arroyo, there are 8 contracts totaling $61.75 mill. God forbid if the rest of the squad made league min, that would total $68.55.

WITHOUT Arroyo, there would be 7 contracts totaling $50.75 mill. Filling out the squad with league mins would bring total to $57.95.

Team payroll could be assumed to be around $74 mill again.

So with Arroyo, there's <$6 mill to play with.
Without Arroyo, there could be about $16 to play with.

Actually, there's more available.

The Jay's are paying around $3M of Rolen's salary next season, so that means around $8.5M without trading Arroyo.

And Arroyo will make around another $3.5M this season, depending on when he's traded, if he is, so that would free up that for next season. The total available next season if the Reds traded Arroyo before Sept, would be around $23M.
Now chances are the Reds would have to pick up some of Arroyo's salary if they want any decent prospects back, so that number would change based on what the Reds would have to give.

Big Klu
08-07-2009, 01:43 AM
So when will we know if he cleared waivers?

You probably won't. He may have cleared waivers, or he may have been claimed and the Reds pulled him back. Or he may have been claimed and the Reds are trying to work out a deal with that club to trade him.

Brutus
08-07-2009, 02:31 AM
So when will we know if he cleared waivers?

If it's true he was put on waivers on Wednesday, then he would clear or be claimed by Saturday. I'm not sure we'll hear anything about his status until/unless something happens (i.e. a trade or someone 'claims' him).

klw
08-07-2009, 07:15 AM
Often the names of some who have cleared waivers will leak out. www.mlbtraderumors.com will maintain a list here. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/08/list-of-players-to-clear-waivers.html