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View Full Version : Hardball Times defends the Rolen Trade



HalMorrisRules
08-06-2009, 02:04 AM
Defending The Trade (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/defending-cincinnatis-rolen-trade/)

Look further down into the posts below and what he thinks the Reds possibilities are for the offseason. Interesting if nothing else.

Captain Hook
08-06-2009, 02:15 AM
I was seconds away from starting the same thread.

I can't believe someone that's not a Reds fans is saying that the Reds could likely contend in the central next year.I mean I think they can but I'm an idiot Reds fan.

Also, I saw where Fay says that Bob C. gave Baker the good old vote of confidence for 2010.What a surprise.Maybe I'll change my mind about us contending next year.

GIDP
08-06-2009, 02:21 AM
So where are we going to get the 25 million to sign the guys hes discussing?

We wont do anything next year unless we trip over a pile of cash.

Captain Hook
08-06-2009, 02:28 AM
So where are we going to get the 25 million to sign the guys hes discussing?

We wont do anything next year unless we trip over a pile of cash.

The only hope that I have is that I honestly don't think that Bob C. would put his dude through another season like this where Baker had very little to work with.Baker needs some fire power to overcome his poor managing.I can't imagine anyone thinks that Baker can win with the kind of team we have had this year.The Rolen deal somewhat supports this thinking.I do believe that there is a ray of hope we add some payroll and go after a few of the guys mentioned in this article.I'm not holding my breathe though.

Newman4
08-06-2009, 10:01 AM
Guys on here could write better articles than that. He screwed up the math and tried to put it as Rolen is cheaper than Edwin (as noted by the comments by readers). Then the fantasy FA bonanza is comical. Still misses the point - it's not about Edwin v. Rolen - it's THE PROSPECTS they gave up!

bigredbunter
08-06-2009, 10:24 AM
Guys on here could write better articles than that. He screwed up the math and tried to put it as Rolen is cheaper than Edwin (as noted by the comments by readers). Then the fantasy FA bonanza is comical. Still misses the point - it's not about Edwin v. Rolen - it's THE PROSPECTS they gave up!

Neither of which (as he pointed out) were likely to help the Reds in 2010.

texasdave
08-06-2009, 10:34 AM
The author makes this statement:


Losing Edison Volquez to Tommy John surgery was a major blow, but to compete next year, Roenicke and Stewart weren't going to help.

It is my contention that if the Reds are going to be a factor in 2010 that Roenicke and Stewart will HAVE TO contribute. Or rather, now that they are history, would have had to contribute.

bigredbunter
08-06-2009, 12:36 PM
The author makes this statement:



It is my contention that if the Reds are going to be a factor in 2010 that Roenicke and Stewart will HAVE TO contribute. Or rather, now that they are history, would have had to contribute.



Roenicke = league average bullpen arm

If we can't scrape one of those together from either the system or FA, then the problems are bigger than losing Roenicke.



Stewart = lottery ticket

If you play enough I suppose you'll win...But, it's groundhog day with the Reds organization and lottery tickets...Last year, it pinned their hopes on Bailey...How's that turning out?

Before that a slew of supposed saviors. Next year, there will be the next Stewart. It never ends.

BLEEDS
08-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Roenicke = league average bullpen arm

If we can't scrape one of those together from either the system or FA, then the problems are bigger than losing Roenicke.



Stewart = lottery ticket

If you play enough I suppose you'll win...But, it's groundhog day with the Reds organization and lottery tickets...Last year, it pinned their hopes on Bailey...How's that turning out?

Before that a slew of supposed saviors. Next year, there will be the next Stewart. It never ends.

I agree 99%.

Roenicke has had his chances, and he's not exactly a Prospect anymore, he's 27.

I'll give some on Stewart.
It seems that Stewart did make a fast rise this year in the Reds program, but I still say he's a PROSPECT and nothing from a sure thing.
Like you said, we'll have another one next year.

The consensus seems to be, yeah he's a good Prospect, and TORONTO will develop him into a great pitcher (since we can't seem to make ice cubes with water and a fridge), so in that regard he should have been considered worth more in a trade.
Who knows.

I am probably on an island but I really like Leake and think he's going to be the next big thing.
We still have Wood, JC Sulberan (sp?) and a slew of other SP prospects that were more highly regarded just 3 months ago.

Could we have got more, not sure, they sure kicked in a lot of salary along with Rolen so we were going to have to give up something.
Personally I can live with it. I think Rolen brings A LOT to the Reds, on and off the field.
I think he's going to flourish in GABP at the plate, and his GG D is really a Ridiculously HUGE upgrade from what we've had there the past 3 years.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Moosie52
08-06-2009, 02:14 PM
I for one am glad Edwin is gone.

GIDP
08-06-2009, 03:56 PM
Josh didnt start pitching till he was 24. I think its safe to say he really didnt get his chances yet.

malcontent
08-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Josh didnt start pitching till he was 24. I think its safe to say he really didnt get his chances yet.

Wish more people would check out his history and numbers.

He's really getting his first shot now, with the Blue Jays.

Newman4
08-07-2009, 12:38 PM
Roenicke = league average bullpen arm

If we can't scrape one of those together from either the system or FA, then the problems are bigger than losing Roenicke.



Stewart = lottery ticket

If you play enough I suppose you'll win...But, it's groundhog day with the Reds organization and lottery tickets...Last year, it pinned their hopes on Bailey...How's that turning out?

Before that a slew of supposed saviors. Next year, there will be the next Stewart. It never ends.

Care to explain why you project Roenicke as a league average bullpen arm? As for Stewart, what more could he do besides reach AAA as a 22 yr. old with outstanding numbers all along the way?

Newman4
08-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Neither of which (as he pointed out) were likely to help the Reds in 2010.

Really? Considering Roenicke was on the roster this year, I would imagine he would definitely be in the plans for the next. Stewart was expected to possibly come up in the pen this year as well.

bigredbunter
08-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Care to explain why you project Roenicke as a league average bullpen arm? As for Stewart, what more could he do besides reach AAA as a 22 yr. old with outstanding numbers all along the way?


Didn't mean to ignore the question...It's taken a couple of days...I should say that mediocre bullpen arm is a likely future for Roenicke over the next 2-3 years for many of the reasons that other posters have commented on... Roenicke was 25 when he reached AAA ball, after a very slow start in Billings (he was wild) and several injuries. As a result, Roenicke really didn't break into the majors until this year (he had a cup of coffee in 2008. In his favor, he seems to have found the strikezone consistently. He also seems to get hit at a fairly regular rate, though, this hasn't pulled down his era or whip to this point. To be fair, though, we're talking about 20 innings of pro ball over 2 seasons...That's all the exposure Roenicke has. What is likely, is that as he ages and as teams see him more frequently, he will get at even higher rates than he already is (10 Hs per 9IP).

As for Stewart, there are lots of lottery tickets (22 year olds) who put up good minor league numbers and then fizzle. There are some lottery tickets who are winners. I really hope that Jocketty sold the right ticket. I don't know---But the point is, that no one else really does either. I'm not opposed to selling tickets or keeping them....But I think it's silly to manage a farm system by the maxim "keep all thy lottery tickets." That's what gets me about the rage over trading Stewart....He was a ticket, a chit, a possibility--nothing more. It will come out in the wash as to whether Jocketty (on the advice of his organizational people) managed to sell the right one.

bigredbunter
08-08-2009, 03:01 PM
Really? Considering Roenicke was on the roster this year, I would imagine he would definitely be in the plans for the next. Stewart was expected to possibly come up in the pen this year as well.

What should be the standard for deeming a minor leaguer trade-able then? Should the reds only offer minor leaguers that have bad numbers in trades?