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View Full Version : Worst starting pitcher of the lost decade?



Tom Servo
08-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Feel free to tell me if I left off your vote for worst SP of the lost decade but I feel I got down the general list of guys who were at one time or another refered to as "the worst".


For my money, I don't know that I remember someone being as aggresively bad as Dumatrait was in his six starts as a Red.

UKFlounder
08-06-2009, 01:48 PM
Eric Milton - multiple years, multiplie millions, multiple disasters

BRM
08-06-2009, 01:50 PM
Jimmy Anderson's 7 starts in 2003 were very craptacular.

Nasty_Boy
08-06-2009, 01:52 PM
JIMMY ANDERSON!

Patrick Bateman
08-06-2009, 01:54 PM
Jeff Austin had two of the most magical games that I can remember in recent history. So I had to vote for him.

Chip R
08-06-2009, 01:55 PM
Jeff Austin had two of the most magical games that I can remember in recent history. So I had to vote for him.


Small sample size?

Cyclone792
08-06-2009, 02:01 PM
If you throw a minimum start/inning qualifier in there in order to eliminate guys who made only a handful of starts, then the winner is Milton by a landslide.

Spring~Fields
08-06-2009, 02:02 PM
My God! Look at that list, and what we have had to endure as Reds fans. No wonder I suffer a form of trauma when they use the word "patience".

RedsBaron
08-06-2009, 02:03 PM
Eric Milton - multiple years, multiplie millions, multiple disasters
For the money it has to be Milton

BRM
08-06-2009, 02:04 PM
If you throw a minimum start/inning qualifier in there in order to eliminate guys who made only a handful of starts, then the winner is Milton by a landslide.

Absolutely. No one else would be close.

nate
08-06-2009, 02:07 PM
I said Josh Fogg even though my heart says Eric Milton.

Here's a list of futility for everyone to enjoy:



Playing for the CIN,
For single seasons,
From 2001 to 2009,
(requiring ERAp<=80, GS>=10 and At least 60% games started),
sorted by smallest ERAp

Cnt Player **ERA+** GS Year Age Tm Lg G CG SHO GF W L W-L% SV IP H R ER BB SO ERA HR BF AB 2B 3B IBB HBP SH SF GDP SB CS Pk BK WP BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ Pit Str
+----+-----------------+--------+---+----+---+---+--+---+--+---+--+--+--+-----+--+-----+---+---+---+---+---+------+--+----+----+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----+
1 Josh Fogg 59 14 2008 31 CIN NL 22 0 0 3 2 7 .222 0 78.1 97 69 66 27 45 7.58 17 362 321 23 1 1 6 6 2 8 3 2 0 0 1 .302 .365 .539 .904 135 1367 844
2 Ryan Dempster 63 20 2003 26 CIN NL 22 0 0 1 3 7 .300 0 115.2 134 89 84 70 84 6.54 14 545 457 31 2 4 5 9 4 14 1 3 0 0 3 .293 .390 .462 .852 131 1977 1157
3 Jimmy Haynes 65 18 2003 30 CIN NL 18 1 0 0 2 12 .143 0 94.1 118 74 66 57 49 6.30 14 448 379 21 2 3 3 7 2 10 7 4 0 0 2 .311 .404 .488 .892 142 1671 963
4 Eric Milton 66 34 2005 29 CIN NL 34 0 0 0 8 15 .348 0 186.1 237 141 134 52 123 6.47 40 855 784 55 7 2 7 6 6 3 11 3 0 0 8 .302 .349 .543 .892 136 3162 2082
5 Osvaldo Fernandez 66 14 2001 32 CIN NL 20 0 0 2 5 6 .455 0 79.1 103 62 61 33 35 6.92 8 366 326 29 1 3 0 4 3 11 0 3 0 0 0 .316 .376 .485 .861 122 1331 818
6 Luke Hudson 67 16 2005 28 CIN NL 19 0 0 1 6 9 .400 0 84.2 83 62 60 50 53 6.38 14 380 310 23 2 2 11 5 4 12 10 6 1 0 5 .268 .384 .490 .874 133 1436 831
7 Brandon Claussen 70 14 2004 25 CIN NL 14 0 0 0 2 8 .200 0 66 80 50 45 35 45 6.14 9 313 268 17 2 2 2 5 3 4 7 0 0 0 3 .299 .380 .478 .858 127 1258 811
8 Ryan Dempster 70 15 2002 25 CIN NL 15 1 0 0 5 5 .500 0 88.2 102 61 61 38 66 6.19 16 394 348 19 2 1 3 2 3 12 4 2 0 0 2 .293 .365 .497 .862 127 1471 894
9 Jose Acevedo 72 27 2004 26 CIN NL 39 0 0 3 5 12 .294 0 157.2 188 108 104 45 117 5.94 30 704 644 51 1 8 5 3 7 10 5 3 0 1 3 .292 .340 .514 .854 125 2523 1664
10 Brandon Claussen 75 14 2006 27 CIN NL 14 0 0 0 3 8 .273 0 77 93 56 53 28 57 6.19 14 351 309 22 0 1 6 6 2 3 7 3 1 0 2 .301 .368 .508 .876 123 1328 865
11 Danny Graves 77 26 2003 29 CIN NL 30 2 1 3 4 15 .211 2 169 204 108 100 41 60 5.33 30 741 684 56 6 6 7 6 3 17 7 3 0 0 2 .298 .343 .529 .872 134 2476 1585
12 Ramon Ortiz 80 30 2005 32 CIN NL 30 1 0 0 9 11 .450 0 171.1 206 110 102 51 96 5.36 34 755 682 41 6 1 7 7 8 16 6 6 3 1 4 .302 .353 .529 .882 134 2630 1702
13 Cory Lidle 80 24 2004 32 CIN NL 24 3 1 0 7 10 .412 0 149 170 95 88 44 93 5.32 24 656 591 39 5 4 5 12 4 9 9 6 0 0 8 .288 .340 .492 .832 119 2258 1452

BRM
08-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Fogg is a doing a good job in Colorado's bullpen this year. Limited IP though.

ochre
08-06-2009, 02:11 PM
Small sample size?
He did retire 2 of the last 14 batters he faced for the Reds. That has to count for something. Of course, the four HRs in seven batters faced in his last start is fairly impressive. Scary thing is, he pitched "deeper" into that game than his previous start where he retired 0 batters :).


Date # Opponent GS CG SHO GF SV IP H BFP HR R ER BB IB SO SH SF WP 2B

5-23-2003 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/05232003.htm) BOX+PBP (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/B05230CIN2003.htm) VS FLA N 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 7 0 5 5 4 0 0 0 0 0 1
5-28-2003 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/05282003.htm) BOX+PBP (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2003/B05280ATL2003.htm) AT ATL N 1 0 0 0 0 0.2 4 7 4 5 5 1 0 0 0 0 1 0

Caveat Emperor
08-06-2009, 02:17 PM
Milton not only cost the team games, he cost the team huge dollars as well. He's the clear "winner" here.

Though, Osvaldo Fernandez was actually so terrible in a game he pitched that the official scorer declined to give him credit for the victory when the team rallied in the bottom of the inning. That has to be worth SOMETHING in this poll...

NJReds
08-06-2009, 02:19 PM
I gave my vote to Jimmy Haynes. He was feeling left out.

BRM
08-06-2009, 02:21 PM
It would interesting to do this exercise/poll for the worst position player. Lots of good candidates there too. Castro, Bako, Patterson, Taveras, etc...

Strikes Out Looking
08-06-2009, 02:23 PM
Most depressing poll -- ever.

TheNext44
08-06-2009, 02:25 PM
I picked Williams, since he had the worst stuff, in my opinion.

Milton was injured most of the time, and he really handled all the abuse from fans quite well, so while I know he's a popular punching bag, that is exactly why I didn't pick him.

Stuffwise, Fogg was a close second to Williams, but he was cheap, and went to the pen without a fuss, which is a plus.

I'm also mad that the Reds traded Casey for him at time when the Pirates had Duke, Snell, Maholm, Gorzelanny and Perez, and the Reds settled for Williams.

Hoosier Red
08-06-2009, 02:27 PM
I'm pretty sure the best answer to this is Yes.

Chip R
08-06-2009, 02:31 PM
Phil Dumatrait was pretty awful.

LincolnparkRed
08-06-2009, 02:38 PM
I picked sanchez, small sample size and all but 3 starts, 14.1 innings 18 hits 12er and 4 homers and then complained when he lost his spot in rotation

M2
08-06-2009, 02:52 PM
Williams was as a bad a pitcher as I've ever seen, but Milton's total body of work has to win the day.

ochre
08-06-2009, 02:54 PM
I think I'm going to vote Dempster. I kind of felt like he punked the reds with the way that whole situation went down (just my gut feeling) and he was all sorts of awful with the reds. Besides, he's a cub. That, alone, is enough to revile him.

nate
08-06-2009, 02:59 PM
Williams was as a bad a pitcher as I've ever seen, but Milton's total body of work has to win the day.

Yep, and it's one of the biggest bodies on the list.

marcshoe
08-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Dumatrait didn't last long, but he may have been the least competent pitcher I've ever seen.

CarolinaRedleg
08-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Gotta keep on with the piling on. Uncle Miltie it is.

A list of craptastic relievers would also be, um, interesting: Majewski, Stanton, Rick White....it's enough to make you lose your lunch.

15fan
08-06-2009, 03:40 PM
I've recounted the horror several times of being in Turner Field for Jeff Austin's final start.

(Edit: For those of you who want to relive that evening, here's the url (http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=230528115). It was so bad that Jung Bong got a 3 inning save.)

The price tag and volume assocated with Milton makes him the runaway winner. It's not even close.

Jimmy Haynes also gets a shout out. After his 15-10 in 2002 (which among other things cost FCB his first born...), he rebounded to go 2-12 in 2003. To go from 15 wins in 34 starts one year to 2 wins in 18 starts the next is just mind-boggling.

Nasty_Boy
08-06-2009, 03:42 PM
Jeff Austin had two of the most magical games that I can remember in recent history. So I had to vote for him.

In attendance for the Marlins game... The Marlins had 5 runs before I finished half of my first beer... And that's saying something

Roy Tucker
08-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Williams was as a bad a pitcher as I've ever seen, but Milton's total body of work has to win the day.


I'd go with Milton too, but Jeff Austin has to have peak "value".

What a miserable list.

REDREAD
08-06-2009, 03:47 PM
I think Jimmy Anderson was probably the most depressing signing.

I am not going to look up his numbers, but he was a pretty solid bet for a 6.00 ERA every year, and then the Reds brought him in, claiming he was "fixed" and would be their #3 starter. The depressing thing was that we all knew he was in the rotation since he was willing to sign for 500k.

Plenty of bad pitchers on the list though.

Milton wins hands down when you do economic impact.

MrCinatit
08-06-2009, 04:12 PM
I...I keep looking at the list, and it's like my brain keeps locking up.
Then I look out my window, down a couple of stories into a busy street with a lot of trucks and stuff...and I think to myself "that looks a lot less painful than reliving some of those nightmares".

*BaseClogger*
08-06-2009, 05:18 PM
I voted on gut instinct. And I remember in 2003 looking forward to every Jimmy Haynes start to find out how many runs he would give up... :lol:

Brutus
08-06-2009, 05:31 PM
I think this should really be about talent. If it's talent we're going by, I don't think Milton is near the top of the list. When I think of "worst" I'm not thinking of "worst for their salary."

Now considering finances, then sure, Milton wins this in a landslide. But if we keep money out of the equation, I see several guys I would take Milton over on this list.

The Baumer
08-06-2009, 05:49 PM
I just remember Dempster walking 8 people a game.

HeatherC1212
08-06-2009, 05:50 PM
I voted for Milton too strictly on the basis of how long he was awful (and/or injured) for the Reds, especially with what we were paying him, but this entire list makes me really depresssed and want to throw things at the wall. Wow, that is one sad list. :eek:

I did call Ryan Dempster "The Dumpster" while he was here though so I'll consider him the runner up since I can actually recall how bad he was and I don't really remember many of the others on this list. :p:

nate
08-06-2009, 05:51 PM
I just remember Dempster walking 8 people a game.

I remember I used to follow the Reds on usenet and they referred to him as "Dumpster."

nate
08-06-2009, 05:52 PM
Err...like Heather said!