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CarolinaRedleg
08-13-2009, 11:29 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4396083


Cincinnati Reds pitcher Bronson Arroyo, who last month admitted to using a now-banned supplement earlier in his career, says he uses a number of over-the-counter supplements not on Major League Baseball's approved list, according to a USA Today report.

"I have a lot of guys in [the locker room] who think I'm out of [my] mind because I'm taking a lot of things not on the [MLB-approved] list," Arroyo said, according to the report. "I take 10 to 12 different things a day, and on the days I pitch, there's four more things. There's a caffeine drink I take from a company that [ex-Boston Red Sox teammate] Curt Schilling introduced me to in '05. I take some Korean ginseng and a few other proteins out there that are not certified. But I haven't failed any tests, so I figured I'm good."

Benihana
08-13-2009, 11:31 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4396083

:rolleyes:

RedLegSuperStar
08-13-2009, 11:33 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4396083

Why does he even open his mouth.. everything that comes out of it is crap.

RichRed
08-13-2009, 11:35 AM
Bronson needs to shut his pill-hole.

UKFlounder
08-13-2009, 11:45 AM
Bronson needs to shut his pill-hole.


:eek:

WMR
08-13-2009, 11:46 AM
Bronson is not a smart guy.

osuceltic
08-13-2009, 11:49 AM
For the most part, I'd say the honesty is pretty refreshing. I will say there's a little selfishness--or at the very least lack of awareness--involved in risking a suspension by continuing to take things not on the approved list. It's all well and good to say, "I haven't failed any tests, so I assumed I'm good," but if he is suspended for 50 games, he blows a sizable hole in the rotation (contrary to popular opinion here).

I actually respect the guy for basically saying, "I took stuff. I was competing and found something that helped me compete at a higher level. I'd do it again."

We get angry about steroids because they distort our perceptions of what great players really are. They obliterate records fans have used for 100 years to measure players. But the players don't take steroids to hit 700 HRs or get in the HOF. They take them to help them beat the other guy and win more games. Doesn't make it right and doesn't change my stance on the HOF, but at least Arroyo owned up to it.

Professional sport is a competitive, cuthroat business. Give a guy a tool to help him get ahead, and he's going to use it. Arroyo is just more honest than the vast majority.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2009, 11:52 AM
For the most part, I'd say the honesty is pretty refreshing. I will say there's a little selfishness--or at the very least lack of awareness--involved in risking a suspension by continuing to take things not on the approved list. It's all well and good to say, "I haven't failed any tests, so I assumed I'm good," but if he is suspended for 50 games, he blows a sizable hole in the rotation (contrary to popular opinion here).

I actually respect the guy for basically saying, "I took stuff. I was competing and found something that helped me compete at a higher level. I'd do it again."

We get angry about steroids because they distort our perceptions of what great players really are. They obliterate records fans have used for 100 years to measure players. But the players don't take steroids to hit 700 HRs or get in the HOF. They take them to help them beat the other guy and win more games. Doesn't make it right and doesn't change my stance on the HOF, but at least Arroyo owned up to it.

Professional sport is a competitive, cuthroat business. Give a guy a tool to help him get ahead, and he's going to use it. Arroyo is just more honest than the vast majority.

Agree. Good post.

WMR
08-13-2009, 11:53 AM
Bronson is basically asking to fail a test.

REDREAD
08-13-2009, 11:55 AM
I think Bronson likes his rebel image.. Looks like he's trying to dare MLB to catch him.

Either that or he's trying to help his Boston friends that got busted by saying "Hey, look at me, I'm taking unapproved stuff too and you can't catch me, the system is broken."

I wish he'd shut up too. This is too much.

REDSEER
08-13-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't think a few of these quotes are going to go over very well with the media....

"I can see where guys like Hank Aaron and some of the old-timers have a beef with it," Arroyo said, according to the report. "But as far as looking at Manny Ramirez like he's [serial killer] Ted Bundy, you're out of your mind. At the end of the day, you think anybody really [cares] whether Manny Ramirez's kidneys fail and he dies at 50?

"You were happy if the Red Sox won 95 games. You'd go home, have a cookout with your family. No big deal," he said, according to the report.

Or our own owner and front office...


"If Mark McGwire is hitting 60 homers, the only thing that matters is his performance," Arroyo said, according to USA Today. "People don't own teams to lose money. If you ask any owner whether they would rather make $20 million and come in last place or lose $20 million and win a World Series, there's only one guy who honestly would take that championship: George Steinbrenner. Nobody else."
Fact is, Bronson is saying the things that everyone else is afraid to say. It's the brutal truth, though.

jojo
08-13-2009, 12:00 PM
His USA today stor (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/reds/2009-08-12-arroyo-cover-unconcerned_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip)y is full of zingers.



"If you want to say the union continued to knowingly barter in bad faith for us to have steroids and not have a policy, hey, they're not at fault for anything. The union is there to protect our best interest.

"Whether you think it's right or wrong, the union is there to make sure we look good in the media, make as much money as we possibly can and continue our career as long as we possibly can."

Maybe there are players who are ashamed of playing in the steroid era, Arroyo says, but he is proud. He made it. He survived.

"I don't regret a thing," Arroyo says. "Neither should anyone else."

Chip R
08-13-2009, 12:01 PM
Fact is, Bronson is saying the things that everyone else is afraid to say. It's the brutal truth, though.


Yep. He's spot on.

mbgrayson
08-13-2009, 12:56 PM
None of this will help his trade value.....

redsmetz
08-13-2009, 12:59 PM
None of this will help his trade value.....

That might be why he's talking. He and Arroyo have said they don't want to be traded. I could be wrong about that, but it crossed my mind.

cincrazy
08-13-2009, 01:04 PM
Sometimes I wish Bronson Arroyo would just shut up.

But sometimes, I wish he'd keep talking, because he's probably the only one in baseball not afraid to talk about this.

fearofpopvol1
08-13-2009, 01:06 PM
I think he's saying this so he can stay with the Reds. If other teams were unsure about trying to acquire him before, this will help seal the deal.

RichRed
08-13-2009, 01:08 PM
None of this will help his trade value.....

And that's why I wish he'd dummy up, to quote Archibald Bunker.

Tom Servo
08-13-2009, 01:38 PM
That's great, Bronson. Really. I do have one small question though, dude. If you readily admit to having taken various PED's and still taking unapproved supplements then WHY DON'T YOU PITCH BETTER!? :bash:




Ahem. Sorry.

Highlifeman21
08-13-2009, 01:40 PM
Bronson is basically asking to fail a test.

I wanna know how you don't mess yourself up taking 16 things on game day, and 12 on non-game days.

Basically, Bronson's a walking chemistry set.

Highlifeman21
08-13-2009, 01:44 PM
That's great, Bronson. Really. I do have one small question though, dude. If you readily admit to having taken various PED's and still taking unapproved supplements then WHY DON'T YOU PITCH BETTER!? :bash:




Ahem. Sorry.

Maybe he's mixing his suck meds with his ace meds?

I'm guessing they look similar, since he's either an ace, or teh sux.

How about we just get him some consistency meds, or maybe just some prune juice and some yogurt?

They keep you regular, right?

savafan
08-13-2009, 01:44 PM
I wanna know how you don't mess yourself up taking 16 things on game day, and 12 on non-game days.

Basically, Bronson's a walking chemistry set.

During Bronson's time in Boston, the Red Sox brought in people to teach the players how to use supplements and PEDs correctly.

WMR
08-13-2009, 01:44 PM
I wanna know how you don't mess yourself up taking 16 things on game day, and 12 on non-game days.

Basically, Bronson's a walking chemistry set.

:lol:

Imagine how he would pitch WITHOUT all those chemicals. :eek::D

M2
08-13-2009, 01:50 PM
First off, I love that Bronson doesn't speak in an endless string of sports cliches.

Second, he'll have his choice of studio analyst/color commentator gigs when he retires.

blumj
08-13-2009, 01:56 PM
First off, I love that Bronson doesn't speak in an endless string of sports cliches.

Second, he'll have his choice of studio analyst/color commentator gigs when he retires.

If it was up to me, he'd have Dave Roberts or Jim Rice's job on NESN yesterday.

WMR
08-13-2009, 01:57 PM
During Bronson's time in Boston, the Red Sox brought in people to teach the players how to use supplements and PEDs correctly.

You're telling me that the Red Sox brought someone in to counsel their players to take supplements not on the list approved by MLB?

I find that ludicrous and don't believe it for a second.

BCubb2003
08-13-2009, 01:59 PM
Bronson "Spaceman" Arroyo.

Highlifeman21
08-13-2009, 02:04 PM
During Bronson's time in Boston, the Red Sox brought in people to teach the players how to use supplements and PEDs correctly.

Curt Schilling seems like he'd have a Ph.D in PED usage, and could teach multiple classes.

Or maybe the Red Sox brought in Bill Romanowski?

UKFlounder
08-13-2009, 02:04 PM
Bronson "Spaceman" Arroyo.

Or maybe Bronson "Arroyo Borealis"

dsmith421
08-13-2009, 02:04 PM
Good for Bronson. Wish more guys had the balls to come out with the unvarnished truth. He'll get crushed in the media because that's just what they do.

jojo
08-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Good for Bronson. Wish more guys had the balls to come out with the unvarnished truth. He'll get crushed in the media because that's just what they do.

There goes Bronson's HOF chances....

nate
08-13-2009, 02:13 PM
Or maybe Bronson "Arroyo Borealis"

Good one!

paulrichjr
08-13-2009, 02:14 PM
First off, I love that Bronson doesn't speak in an endless string of sports cliches.

Second, he'll have his choice of studio analyst/color commentator gigs when he retires.

I agree. If you have ever been to RedsFest and listened to anyone speak on stage with Arroyo there also you will come away loving Arroyo. He is so honest and straightforward it is incredibly refreshing.

bucksfan2
08-13-2009, 02:51 PM
IIRC Bronson has been a health freak since he was little. I believe his dad was the same way and got Bronson into it. I would imagine that all of what Bronson takes you can pick up at GNC or your local nutrition store. I would also imagine that everything Bronson is taking isn't illegal.

I like that he is outspoken and honest. I like how he comes out and says, I don't regret what I have taken before. I like how he doesn't take the David Oritz route and try to explain how he can't hit the ball out of his shadow anymore. Arroyo will probably be hammered by the national media, but what he is saying is honest and truthful.

Reds4Life
08-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Intentional or not, Bronson has done just about everything he can to ruin what little trade value he had.

Super.

reds44
08-13-2009, 02:55 PM
At the end of the day, you think anybody really [cares] whether Manny Ramirez's kidneys fail and he dies at 50?

"You were happy if the Red Sox won 95 games. You'd go home, have a cookout with your family. No big deal," he said, according to the report.

I lol'd.

Arroyo isn't a very smart guy, though. He needs to stop talking.

Eric_the_Red
08-13-2009, 04:26 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what Arroyo said. It may hurt his trade value, but that really is of no concern to him. He was honest and candid- very refreshing from an athlete.

bucksfan2
08-13-2009, 04:34 PM
I don't see how this hurts his trade value. He has yet to fail a drug test while taking his supplements, whose to say he will fail one in the future?

M2
08-13-2009, 04:37 PM
I don't see how this hurts his trade value. He has yet to fail a drug test while taking his supplements, whose to say he will fail one in the future?

Agreed. Aside from that, Arroyo probably doesn't want to work for an organization that's going to wig out whenever he opens his mouth. To their credit, the Reds have been good about that and Arroyo's been good PR for them as a result (hey, a ballplayer who talks like a human).

jojo
08-13-2009, 04:40 PM
Anyone catch this little ditty from his USA Today interview (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/reds/2009-08-12-arroyo-cover-unconcerned_N.htm):



"It might be dangerous," he says, "but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody."

:arroyo: + :all_cohol + http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport001.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) = http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

savafan
08-13-2009, 04:43 PM
You're telling me that the Red Sox brought someone in to counsel their players to take supplements not on the list approved by MLB?

I find that ludicrous and don't believe it for a second.

It was well documented in the press...last year I believe. Look it up.

Tom Servo
08-13-2009, 04:47 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2007/10/15/190-larussa071015.jpg + :all_cohol + http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport001.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) = http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Caveat Emperor
08-13-2009, 04:48 PM
Brutal honesty rarely sits well with people, so I'm not surprised at the reaction Bronson is getting. I applaud him, though. It's great copy, and it's dead-on.

westofyou
08-13-2009, 04:53 PM
If I was BA I'd worry that any JTM products I might have come across would have a worse effect on my body than any of those supplements

Chip R
08-13-2009, 04:54 PM
If I was BA I'd worry that any JTM products I might have come across would have a worse effect on my body than any of those supplements


Ain't that the truth.

bucksfan2
08-13-2009, 05:01 PM
Anyone catch this little ditty from his USA Today interview (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/reds/2009-08-12-arroyo-cover-unconcerned_N.htm):



:arroyo: + :all_cohol + http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport001.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php) = http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport003.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Anyone who has driven in Ohio with a BAC over .08 has driven drunk.

RichRed
08-13-2009, 05:10 PM
Agreed. Aside from that, Arroyo probably doesn't want to work for an organization that's going to wig out whenever he opens his mouth. To their credit, the Reds have been good about that and Arroyo's been good PR for them as a result (hey, a ballplayer who talks like a human).

Normally, I'm all for an athlete not sounding like a cliche machine and I personally don't care if he admits to ingesting Acme Brand Fish Tranquilizers. However, IF (big IF) Jocketty is really trying to work a trade, I can see other GMs - already a squeamish lot, by and large, when it comes to trades - using this stuff as a ready-made excuse to squelch a deal.

Lord knows this organization doesn't need any more handicaps.

Chip R
08-13-2009, 05:15 PM
Normally, I'm all for an athlete not sounding like a cliche machine and I personally don't care if he admits to ingesting Acme Brand Fish Tranquilizers. However, IF (big IF) Jocketty is really trying to work a trade, I can see other GMs - already a squeamish lot, by and large, when it comes to trades - using this stuff as a ready-made excuse to squelch a deal.


Why? I don't think this testing can catch anyone. The only reason Manny was suspended was because he was taking something that was for pregnant women.

RichRed
08-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Why? I don't think this testing can catch anyone. The only reason Manny was suspended was because he was taking something that was for pregnant women.

To clarify, I'm speculating that other GMs would have more of a problem with Bronson *talking* about it so freely, rather than that he would actually get busted for it.

blumj
08-13-2009, 05:29 PM
It was well documented in the press...last year I believe. Look it up.
Lou Merloni said it, but that would have been a few years before Arroyo got to Boston, Duquette era stuff, Theo picked up Bronson off waivers in 2003.

corkedbat
08-13-2009, 06:35 PM
They should be able to cancel his contract on grounds of sheer stupidty.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2009, 07:25 PM
MLB wants to 'chat' with Arroyo about his supplement use

By Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY

Major League Baseball plans to schedule a meeting with Cincinnati Reds right-hander Bronson Arroyo, vice president Rich Levin said Thursday, to discuss his comments to USA TODAY about taking supplements not approved by MLB.

"We just want to chat with him," Levin said, "just to make him aware of the (MLB-licensed) supplements out there."

It has yet to be determined whether Rob Manfred, executive vice president/labor and human resources, or a member of MLB's investigative staff will meet with Arroyo, Levin said. MLB does not plan to discipline Arroyo; it wants the opportunity to educate Arroyo about the dangers of taking unapproved supplements, Levin said.

Arroyo, 32, admitted in Thursday's USA TODAY that he takes as many as 16 supplements a day, some that have not been approved by baseball and cleared of contaminants such as steroids.

"I have a lot of guys in (the locker room) who think I'm out of (my) mind because I'm taking a lot of things not on the (MLB-approved) list," Arroyo said. "I take 10 to 12 different things a day, and on the days I pitch, there's four more things. There's a caffeine drink I take from a company that (former teammate) Curt Schilling introduced me to in '05. I take some Korean ginseng and a few other proteins out there that are not certified. But I haven't failed any tests, so I figured I'm good."

He also described taking androstenedione and amphetamines before they were banned by baseball in 2004 and 2006, respectively.

Arroyo was scheduled to start for the Reds at home vs. Washington on Thursday night.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/reds/2009-08-13-arroyo-mlb-meet_N.htm

Ltlabner
08-13-2009, 07:32 PM
So is his pee in day-glow colors with all that stuff he's taking?

GAC
08-13-2009, 08:00 PM
If it's not on the MLB's "approved" list, does that mean it's on their banned list?

So what if he takes a caffeine or protein drink, or Korean ginseng? He passes the tests. So either the ingredients don't contain banned substances.... or the MLB tests are faulty.

It's not like those other high profile cases where guys purposely knew, sought after, and injected themselves with anabolic steroids.

Maybe MLB should have a policy where players can submit these over-the-counter supplements for review and approval, just so a player can be safe. Does one exist?

These players put their bodies through a lot in a 162 game season. So I have no problem at all with them taking various health supplements as long as they are shown not to contain anabolic steroids or other known banned performance enhancers.

Is it wrong for a guy to drink a Red Bull before the game? ;)

Reds4Life
08-13-2009, 08:32 PM
Maybe MLB should have a policy where players can submit these over-the-counter supplements for review and approval, just so a player can be safe. Does one exist?

I think there is, but I'm not 100% sure.

The problem though, supplements aren't regulated by the FDA like prescription medications are. The ingredients can vary from batch to batch even from the same manufacturer.

WMR
08-13-2009, 08:57 PM
It was well documented in the press...last year I believe. Look it up.

I'm not denying that the Red Sox brought someone in. I'm denying that whomever they brought in counseled Red Sox players to take unapproved substances. I don't see any way any ML club would ever contemplate advocating such a foolhardy approach to taking supplements for their multi-million dollar investments.

WMR
08-13-2009, 08:58 PM
Lou Merloni said it, but that would have been a few years before Arroyo got to Boston, Duquette era stuff, Theo picked up Bronson off waivers in 2003.

Thanks for the clarification.

redsmetz
08-13-2009, 10:21 PM
I guess Bronson took his extra supplements today. :)

11larkin11
08-13-2009, 10:29 PM
"I do what I want to do and say what I want to say."

Its great to hear the truth from a player.

Danny Serafini
08-13-2009, 10:33 PM
I guess Bronson took his extra supplements today. :)

If he keeps pitching like this he can take all the secret herbs and spices he wants.

Chip R
08-13-2009, 10:43 PM
"I'll have what he's having."

http://www.yesbutnobutyes.com/180px-WhenHarryMetSallyIllhavewhatsheshaving.jpg

BCubb2003
08-13-2009, 10:47 PM
Bronson Vitamins will come in colorful shapes, like Flintstones.

VR
08-13-2009, 10:53 PM
Bronson Arroyo leads the major leagues in shutouts.

redsmetz
08-13-2009, 10:55 PM
If he keeps pitching like this he can take all the secret herbs and spices he wants.

That was a finger licking good pitching performance tonight, wasn't it? [Well, except spitballs are outlawed too - so maybe not so much]

Tom Servo
08-13-2009, 11:03 PM
So does 9 shutout innings tonight lower his ERA to under 5.00?

CaiGuy
08-13-2009, 11:12 PM
So does 9 shutout innings tonight lower his ERA to under 5.00?

All the way down to 4.74...pushing for a Cy Young?

Dom Heffner
08-13-2009, 11:16 PM
You people talking about Arroyo's PED use hate baseball.

Caveat Emperor
08-13-2009, 11:58 PM
Bronson Arroyo leads the major leagues in shutouts.

Arroyo also has 22 (11-11) decisions in 24 starts. Say what you will about him, he rarely gets cheated out of a W or an L.

M2
08-14-2009, 12:39 AM
Arroyo also has 22 (11-11) decisions in 24 starts. Say what you will about him, he rarely gets cheated out of a W or an L.

After watching Volquez and Owings hit the shelf, Cueto hit the wall and Bailey average less than 5 IP a start, Arroyo does serve as a reminder that taking the ball every fifth day and and contributing 200+ IP has a lot of value. He may not be an ace, but the Reds are paying a guy who dependably shoulders a heavy workload.

kaldaniels
08-14-2009, 02:24 AM
Arroyo's ERA is better than Cole Hamels. :eek:

WVRedsFan
08-14-2009, 02:49 AM
I don't think the Reds will be dealing Arroyo or Harang anytime soon. Why? Simply because who else is going to pitch? Last year's Whiz Kids, Volquez and Cueto have either been injured or proven they have a long way to go and the other options are less than inviting. Without Arroyo and Harang your rotation might look like...Lehr, Owings, Cueto, Bailey, and Maloney. Makes you want to lose your lunch, right? Regardless of what they cost (A&H), you have to put some kind of reasonable team out there. If Volquez had not been hurt, maybe you could get by getting rid of one of them, but not now.

Take heart in knowing that Barry Zito and Derek Lowe make more and contribute less to their clubs. with a little offense, we wouldn't be griping about either pitcher, but alas, the powers that be decided to put a whole team of judy hitters out there. What a difference it would make it we scored more than 3 runs a game most of the time!

Tom Servo
08-14-2009, 02:52 AM
Arroyo's ERA is better than Cole Hamels. :eek:
My mind has been blown.

redsmetz
08-14-2009, 09:15 AM
I posted this is the game thread from last night's game, but thought it fit here too. From today's Washington Post:

Say this for Arroyo: He knows how to follow a story with a show. On the same day the baseball world learned about how Arroyo relies daily on 10 to 12 products, some not approved by Major League Baseball, the Cincinnati veteran positively unenhanced the performance of the Washington Nationals, shutting them out on two hits in his best game of the season. Washington, a 7-0 loser at Great American Ball Park, fell for the third consecutive time on a night when Jonny Gomes paced the Cincinnati offense, swatting three home runs.

redsmetz
08-14-2009, 09:19 AM
I don't think the Reds will be dealing Arroyo or Harang anytime soon. Why? Simply because who else is going to pitch? Last year's Whiz Kids, Volquez and Cueto have either been injured or proven they have a long way to go and the other options are less than inviting. Without Arroyo and Harang your rotation might look like...Lehr, Owings, Cueto, Bailey, and Maloney. Makes you want to lose your lunch, right? Regardless of what they cost (A&H), you have to put some kind of reasonable team out there. If Volquez had not been hurt, maybe you could get by getting rid of one of them, but not now.

Take heart in knowing that Barry Zito and Derek Lowe make more and contribute less to their clubs. with a little offense, we wouldn't be griping about either pitcher, but alas, the powers that be decided to put a whole team of judy hitters out there. What a difference it would make it we scored more than 3 runs a game most of the time!

I'm of this mind too. With Volquez out next year, I think we need to have our two horses, salaries notwithstanding. The salaries are larger sized in this economy, but I think we need to have these guys with us still. My hope (and at this moment that's all it is) is that we add salary, although I understand that may be difficult.

And these are two guys who want to remain here. I want that. Also, I watched the highlights of last night's game and Arroyo was getting some good defense behind him. I know we like to mock that notion, but anyway we can get outs is just what the doctor ordered and it makes our pitchers better. I know that both have been uneven this year, but I think we can ill afford to jettison these two pitchers - very possibly one, although I think we'll do better to hang on to both. I know that's a minority opinion, but so be it.

blumj
08-14-2009, 10:27 AM
I think there is, but I'm not 100% sure.

The problem though, supplements aren't regulated by the FDA like prescription medications are. The ingredients can vary from batch to batch even from the same manufacturer.
If he's into homeopathy/alternative medicine/chinese herbs type stuff, is there much of a chance he accidentally winds up taking a banned performance enhancer? Because the people I know who are into that stuff, it's usually not even the same 14 different things a day they're taking a week later.

Highlifeman21
08-14-2009, 11:00 AM
Arroyo's ERA is better than Cole Hamels. :eek:

Hamels has pitched like crap on the road.

He's been very solid @ CBP.

Arroyo's been consistently crappy anywhere he's pitched this year.

Eric_the_Red
08-14-2009, 12:50 PM
Hamels has pitched like crap on the road.

He's been very solid @ CBP.

Arroyo's been consistently crappy anywhere he's pitched this year.


I would argue that Arroyo is anything but consistent, and definitely not consistently crappy. It seems you never know which Arroyo will show up - the good, the bad or the ugly.

His numbers since July 5th have shown more consistently good pitching though:
7G - 50.2 IP - 2.49 ERA - 1.02 WHIP - 5.51 K/9 - 2.58 K/BB

Caveat Emperor
08-14-2009, 12:51 PM
Arroyo's been consistently crappy anywhere he's pitched this year.

This is just flat untrue.

He's been a little below average, but he's also on pace to throw over 210 innings this year, and has 3 CGs to his credit. He's not great -- he might not even be "good" -- but he's there for his turn every five days and has had stretches of very good performance (punctuated by very awful performance as well).

That doesn't add up to "consistently" anything -- certainly not consistently crappy.

blumj
08-14-2009, 12:55 PM
It's not unusual for pitchers who pitched deep into the postseason to struggle the following season. I would think it's probably just not quite enough time to recover and prepare for the next season.

BRM
08-14-2009, 01:15 PM
From Mark Sheldon's blog after the game last night:


On the other side, Arroyo clearly had no trouble blocking out the hullabaloo regarding his story on supplements in USA Today, or the fact the league wants to chat with him.

"I'm fine," Arroyo said. "I grew up in a household where if my father flew here to watch the game today, if the plane crashed, he would expect me to do what I did knowing that the plane crashed. That's just the way it is. It's the most important thing in my life on a day-to-day basis. I treat it as such. When I take the hill, I don't let anything bother me."

Because of PEDs are the hot button taboo topic in the game, Arroyo wasn't surprised that the media and fans are drawn to the story and his comments.

"We live in a world where people care about what Paris Hilton is having for lunch vs. how many guys are getting killed in Iraq and that's the truth. Look at the Josh Hamilton stuff that came out. That's more important than how many home runs he's hit. It's sad to say but it's the society we live in. Sometimes I speak my mind probably more than I should. Sometimes it blows up in my face. That's the way it goes."

Reds4Life
08-14-2009, 01:58 PM
If he's into homeopathy/alternative medicine/chinese herbs type stuff, is there much of a chance he accidentally winds up taking a banned performance enhancer? Because the people I know who are into that stuff, it's usually not even the same 14 different things a day they're taking a week later.

It's possible. There are items you can purchase at any GNC store that appear on the MLB banned substances list.

Just because it's not on the approved list doesn't mean it's banned though. If it's not explicitly listed as a banned substance, Arroyo should be fine.

Roy Tucker
08-14-2009, 02:15 PM
I just wish other players would speak as openly as Arroyo does about all this.

The hardest thing for me is trying to gain some understanding of the context of steroids/PEDs pre-2004 in MLB. Who took them, what they took, and how common was it.

But judging from the media fire storms that form around these stories, I think most players just want to lay low. The stories will continue to come out in dribs and drabs and I don't know if we'll ever get a clear picture.

bucksfan2
08-14-2009, 03:02 PM
"We live in a world where people care about what Paris Hilton is having for lunch vs. how many guys are getting killed in Iraq and that's the truth. Look at the Josh Hamilton stuff that came out. That's more important than how many home runs he's hit. It's sad to say but it's the society we live in. Sometimes I speak my mind probably more than I should. Sometimes it blows up in my face. That's the way it goes."

He just jumped to the top of my list for favorite players. He speaks his mind, but he puts things in pretty good perspective.

kaldaniels
08-14-2009, 04:02 PM
Hamels has pitched like crap on the road.

He's been very solid @ CBP.

Arroyo's been consistently crappy anywhere he's pitched this year.

What conclusion are you trying to reach with this?

Brutus
08-14-2009, 04:04 PM
He just jumped to the top of my list for favorite players. He speaks his mind, but he puts things in pretty good perspective.

He is refreshing to listen to, no doubt.

This is why I have no problems with Brandon Phillips' comments. I appreciate people speaking honestly about things. No spin. No deceit. No "PR." Just unfettered honesty.

Highlifeman21
08-15-2009, 01:14 AM
What conclusion are you trying to reach with this?

That Hamels is a better pitcher than Arroyo.

kaldaniels
08-15-2009, 01:30 PM
That Hamels is a better pitcher than Arroyo.

I don't think anyone would argue that Arroyo is better than Hamels. That is what makes the fact that Arroyo has a better ERA mindboggling. Your home/road splits just don't really have relavance to anything, which was why I asked what conclusion you were trying to draw.

I did a doubletake when I saw the ERA rankings so I posted it...no need for a kneejerk contrary argument, it is what it is.

Patrick Bateman
08-15-2009, 01:57 PM
That Hamels is a better pitcher than Arroyo.

There are TONS of stats that suggest Hamels is the better pitcher. You don't need to manipulate splits that don't make your point to show that Hamels is a better pitcher.