PDA

View Full Version : 2010: The Year We Make Contact



TRF
08-13-2009, 04:42 PM
Could not resist this thread title.

I'm thinking the Reds are not going to add another bat this off season. Certainly not an impact bat. IMO that means next years OF is likely Bruce, Dickerson (no way they let WT start after this abysmal year) and Wlad/Gomes. I think Nix is probably let go, and Gomes COULD be as well. I think three members of the IF are set, and I won't speculate on the 4th.

I think the Reds FO thinks they may have lightning in a bottle with Wlad.

The thing is, they thought the same thing about WT.

So pick the scenarios that most likely fit this Reds FO.

BRM
08-13-2009, 04:47 PM
No way WT is a starter next year? Is Dusty still going to be managing?

I agree Wlad has a pretty good shot at being the LF starter. Bruce is a lock for RF. I can see a platoon of Taveras and Dickerson in CF, at least to start the year. I think they will keep Gomes and Taveras/Dickerson as reserve outfielders and Nix will be let go.

Hopefully JJ Hardy is the newcomer on the infield. I have no idea what happens at Catcher.

I voted "no impact bat, standing pat" by the way.

Benihana
08-13-2009, 04:48 PM
Does JJ Hardy count as an impact bat?

Highlifeman21
08-13-2009, 04:48 PM
Either status quo, or dumpster dive.

They added the impact bat already.

His name? Scott Rolen.

BRM
08-13-2009, 04:49 PM
Does JJ Hardy count as an impact bat?

Not IMO.

Homer Bailey
08-13-2009, 04:50 PM
Willy Taveras will be the Centerfielder on Opening Day 2010.

Bumstead
08-13-2009, 05:00 PM
Added a impact bat in Rolen? Deleted an impact bat in EE...net effect = $3-$5M more dollars spent and no more offense and 2 less arms...impact is negative (I admit the better defense but still negative impact). sorry.

Hopefully, the Reds can trade for a young SS (ie: Brignac or Hardy (if he can be re-signed longer term)) and find some bullpen help. I'm not sure how trading Harang and Arroyo would make this team better. Who would pitch those innings? The Reds will not sign Lackey or Holiday...so, what's left? I imagine they will look for cheap fixes and wait for Yonder & Co. to develop.

Bum

Big Klu
08-13-2009, 05:03 PM
Edwin Encarnacion is an impact bat?

Benihana
08-13-2009, 05:04 PM
Edwin Encarnacion is an impact bat?

As much as Rolen is, yes.

BRM
08-13-2009, 05:06 PM
FWIW, I think Highlifeman was being facetious.

cincrazy
08-13-2009, 05:17 PM
I don't buy the notion that the only reason Willy plays is because Dusty is the manager. Dusty more than likely realizes as much as anyone that Willy sucks. But his GM gave him a 2 year deal worth 3 million per before the year, so his hands are kind of tied don't ya think? He doesn't have a choice but to play him.

With that being said, should he be batting him first or second in the lineup? That's a resounding no.

BRM
08-13-2009, 05:18 PM
I don't buy the notion that the only reason Willy plays is because Dusty is the manager. Dusty more than likely realizes as much as anyone that Willy sucks. But his GM gave him a 2 year deal worth 3 million per before the year, so his hands are kind of tied don't ya think? He doesn't have a choice but to play him.


I disagree. I don't think Dusty takes playing time orders from Walt. I truly think it's all his decision. Walt has even stated this before.

Patrick Bateman
08-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Not IMO.

I think he's an impact player.... as in above average regular. He's a solid 6-7 type of hitter (not terribly different from Phillips). He'll knock in some runs, isn't allergic to 1st base, and plays real defense.

Adding him, and solving the OF jumble, and things could turn around fairly quickly.

Homer Bailey
08-13-2009, 05:21 PM
I don't buy the notion that the only reason Willy plays is because Dusty is the manager. Dusty more than likely realizes as much as anyone that Willy sucks. But his GM gave him a 2 year deal worth 3 million per before the year, so his hands are kind of tied don't ya think? He doesn't have a choice but to play him.

With that being said, should he be batting him first or second in the lineup? That's a resounding no.

Completely disagree. Have you heard Dusty criticize him once all year? How many times has Dusty publicly chastized Dickerson? I can think of two right off the top of my head (the backup play in Philliy, and the baserunning the other night).

Dusty sees what he wants to see. He likes what WT does. If he didn't, he wouldn't still be playing him.

BRM
08-13-2009, 05:21 PM
I think he's an impact player.... as in above average regular. He's a solid 6-7 type of hitter (not terribly different from Phillips). He'll knock in some runs, isn't allergic to 1st base, and plays real defense.

Adding him, and solving the OF jumble, and things could turn around fairly quickly.

Agreed. He'd be a nice upgrade for SS. When I think impact bat though, I think power-hitting run producer. Typically corner guys.

kaldaniels
08-13-2009, 05:25 PM
As much as Rolen is, yes.

Not the 2009 EE.

Benihana
08-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Not the 2009 EE.

You mean the one that's been limited to 53 games because of injury?

GAC
08-13-2009, 05:34 PM
I think the Reds FO thinks they may have lightning in a bottle with Wlad.

And that is what worries me about this FO.

I still say the Reds should try to acquire Grady Sizemore from the Indians. Just read where the Indian's owner is in another "rebuilding" mode because they are going to lose 16M this year. And they are an organization that loves to deal for prospects.

Yeah, Grady has had a down year. But he went into the season hurt, tried to play hurt, and spent some time on the DL. The guy is only 27 though and still a darn good CFer. He will come back IMO.


Seasonal Averages (per 162 games played)
YEARS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
4.75 162 644 113 177 39 8 27 86 82 145 27 8 .275 .366 .484 .850


Contract?

10:$5.6M, 11:$7.5M, 12:$8.5M club option ($0.5M buyout)

2012 option may escalate to $10.5M if Sizemore wins Gold Glove or Silver Slugger, makes All Star team or ranks high in MVP vote.

Benihana
08-13-2009, 05:43 PM
And that is what worries me about this FO.

I still say the Reds should try to acquire Grady Sizemore from the Indians. Just read where the Indian's owner is in another "rebuilding" mode because they are going to lose 16M this year. And they are an organization that loves to deal for prospects.

Yeah, Grady has had a down year. But he went into the season hurt, tried to play hurt, and spent some time on the DL. The guy is only 27 though and still a darn good CFer. He will come back IMO.


Seasonal Averages (per 162 games played)
YEARS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
4.75 162 644 113 177 39 8 27 86 82 145 27 8 .275 .366 .484 .850


Contract?

10:$5.6M, 11:$7.5M, 12:$8.5M club option ($0.5M buyout)

2012 option may escalate to $10.5M if Sizemore wins Gold Glove or Silver Slugger, makes All Star team or ranks high in MVP vote.

With Stewart gone, I'm not sure we have what it takes to acquire him.

They'd want Alonso, Wood, and Heisey/Stubbs. I could deal with Alonso and Heisey/Stubbs, but losing Wood would really leave the pitching talent in the high minors non-existent. That's not good when Arroyo and Harang are gone no matter what after next year (if not sooner.)

Assuming they could unload one of the pitching contracts (preferably Cordero), I'd offer Alonso, Heisey and Stubbs and see if they bite. Then I'd start worrying about who is going to play SS.

cincrazy
08-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Completely disagree. Have you heard Dusty criticize him once all year? How many times has Dusty publicly chastized Dickerson? I can think of two right off the top of my head (the backup play in Philliy, and the baserunning the other night).

Dusty sees what he wants to see. He likes what WT does. If he didn't, he wouldn't still be playing him.

You have to handle players differently. You can't just paint it with a broad brush and say "Well, he criticizes Chris, and not Willy, so obviously he hates Chris." Maybe Dickerson responds better this way? Maybe if he criticized Taveras, he would just pout and become even MORE horrible, if that's possible? We really don't know the clubhouse situation and the personality of each individual player.

I'm not a Dusty fan. I've criticized him as much as anyone. But if Lou Piniella or Joe Torre were managing this team, Willy Taveras would still be playing, and playing a lot.

GAC
08-13-2009, 07:09 PM
The reason that WT is playing pretty regularly in CF and leads off is BECAUSE DUSTY WANTS HIM THERE. ;)

Unless someone can show me otherwise, no one is going to convince me that Baker didn't have any input or influence with in Walt snapping up this non-tendered player. He fits right into the "mold" of what Dusty sees and wants in a lead-off guy and CFer...... SPEED.

This is a manager, who back in '05, kept trying to force the issue with Patterson and Hairston.

Now that in no way exonerates Walt Jocketty. He obviously wanted the guy too or else he could have told Baker that is not the caliber of player or direction he wants to take for CF/lead-off.

cincrazy
08-13-2009, 07:21 PM
The reason that WT is playing pretty regularly in CF and leads off is BECAUSE DUSTY WANTS HIM THERE. ;)

Unless someone can show me otherwise, no one is going to convince me that Baker didn't have any input or influence with in Walt snapping up this non-tendered player. He fits right into the "mold" of what Dusty sees and wants in a lead-off guy and CFer...... SPEED.

This is a manager, who back in '05, kept trying to force the issue with Patterson and Hairston.

Now that in no way exonerates Walt Jocketty. He obviously wanted the guy too or else he could have told Baker that is not the caliber of player or direction he wants to take for CF/lead-off.

Now I didn't say that Dusty didn't want him here. I'm sure Dusty did. But what I am saying is, there is no way on earth that Dusty Baker feels that Willy Taveras batting leadoff and playing centerfield for the Reds next season gives the Reds the best chance of winning. I don't even think Bob Boone is that stupid.

Highlifeman21
08-13-2009, 07:29 PM
FWIW, I think Highlifeman was being facetious.

You are correct that I was being facetious.

But, I stand by my statement that the FO thinks they added that impact bat by obtaining Scott Rolen.

buckeyenut
08-13-2009, 10:39 PM
With Stewart gone, I'm not sure we have what it takes to acquire him.

They'd want Alonso, Wood, and Heisey/Stubbs. I could deal with Alonso and Heisey/Stubbs, but losing Wood would really leave the pitching talent in the high minors non-existent. That's not good when Arroyo and Harang are gone no matter what after next year (if not sooner.)

Assuming they could unload one of the pitching contracts (preferably Cordero), I'd offer Alonso, Heisey and Stubbs and see if they bite. Then I'd start worrying about who is going to play SS.
I'd offer Tavaras, Alonso, Stubbs/Heisley, Frazier or Maloney for Sizemore and see what happens. If they take Tavaras back, I'd be willing to go to Wood if I needed to.

Sizemore is a stud and would turbocharge this offense. And I would likely move him to LF and get Heisley/Stubbs (whichever is left) out in CF with Dickerson. With Wlad and Gomes, that is pretty nice OF depth.