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Brutus
08-13-2009, 11:59 PM
Jonny Gomes, that is.

I still continue to go against conventional wisdom that he's not productive enough to be the Reds' starting left fielder next season. The more and more the season goes on, the more I think he's a good option for average production at a cost well below average for his position (i.e. a good value).

After tonight, his line:

.270 / .351 / .566 / .917

Thing is, 2/3 of his plate appearances have come against right-handers. So while he clearly is not *as* successful, he's still putting up some great numbers on the whole despite his large number of PA's now against RHP. While I don't think Gomes is a 917 OPS guy, I am starting to think, at this park, he can sustain an .800 OPS even playing every day. At his projected cost, even taking arbitration into account, I think that could work.

His updated line against RHP:

.240 /.331 / .558 / .889

The OBP is mediocre, but even then his OPS is too good to ignore.

Thanks to tonight, of all players in the major leagues that have 100 or more plate appearances, Gomes leads all in HR (7.7%).

As I said, I don't suspect he can sustain this pace. But the guy does now have 177 total PA's. I believe he's legit as a guy that could carry an 800 OPS, making him no worse than average. He hits well at GABP. That is for sure.

Let me make a final footnote:

If the Reds can find a LF for a reasonable price (like if Matt Holliday were to fall into their laps for not too awful much), I'm all for that. But if not, I'm fine continuing on with Gomes.

He went from a fairly extreme pitcher's park to a fairly extreme hitter's park and he's now healthy. I think the factors are in his favor to continue hitting well. Oh, and he's 28. Just sayin'.

BCubb2003
08-14-2009, 12:11 AM
From Hal's story:

Gomes was asked for a curtain call by fans after the third homer and said, “It’s emotional for me. Let’s not forget I started the season in Triple-A. Not too many at-bats later, three home runs.

“Who are we, as ballplayers, without the fans,” he said. “To have them appreciate the grind we have is special. Very educated fans in Cincinnati and I soaked it in for a minute.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/08/13/love_the_quotes_from_bronson.html

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-14-2009, 12:19 AM
The Reds excel in taking a game, or a week, or a month like this and flipping it into a 3-year deal. And then we never see anything approaching it again.

Ryan Freel also got a few curtain calls, IIRC. So did Austin Kearns.

edabbs44
08-14-2009, 12:27 AM
The Reds excel in taking a game, or a week, or a month like this and flipping it into a 3-year deal. And then we never see anything approaching it again.

Ryan Freel also got a few curtain calls, IIRC. So did Austin Kearns.

1) Not sure about 3 years, but a 2 year deal wouldn't be a problem if it is for low-risk money.

2) Don't forget, the guy had some success earlier in his career then had some injury problems. It isn't like he is a career stiff. And even if he does play at career levels, he is still very useful as a platoon bat since he mashes LHPs.

If the money is right, then he is a fine supplementary player.

VR
08-14-2009, 12:37 AM
You have love Jonny's enthusiasm about being on the Reds....he gave great thanks to them in the postgame interview, and also very quickly pointed to Bronson Arroyo's stellar performance. Seems like a great teammate to have.

That said, I like BTP's strategy on it...

If the Reds can find a LF for a reasonable price (like if Matt Holliday were to fall into their laps for not too awful much), I'm all for that. But if not, I'm fine continuing on with Gomes.



Even keeping Nix around as a 4th/ platoon guy wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Who knows, perhaps Jonny could get healthy (psst....it's ok to lose 10-15 lbs Jonny), and Nix could realize that pitches in the dirt are not strikes?

They've both shown some very good flashes this year...but I would NOT turn that into multiple year deals for either of them at this point.

Tom Servo
08-14-2009, 12:52 AM
...but I would NOT turn that into multiple year deals for either of them at this point.
Exactly. I'd love to keep Gomes around for next year but it has to be reasonable. I really like his game and think he's a good fit, but I don't want to commit to him only to see him get injured or revert back to his bad form. I have nothing against Nix and wouldn't mind him back but I think Gomes is the keeper of the two.

Brutus
08-14-2009, 01:01 AM
Let me add that I agree with those saying do not overpay Gomes. My basis for going with him is under the pretense that the Reds will not have to pay more than $2 - $2.5 mil for him for a season or two.

I'm not advocating paying him $5 mil for 3-4 seasons. That would diminish some of the value. The average LF in MLB makes just slightly less than $7 mil per season. If Gomes continues somewhere near this level of production, he is a great, great value for the $2-3 mil range. It's in this scenario that I advocate his signing and subsequent LF position for next year.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-14-2009, 01:56 AM
1) And even if he does play at career levels, he is still very useful as a platoon bat since he mashes LHPs.

If the money is right, then he is a fine supplementary player.

I am all for keeping Gomes around as a 4th outfielder or, at worst, a platoon at our weakest outfield position. But I would hope that the FO tries to better this team significantly in the offseason and not just take the easy road and automatically plug Gomes in as an everyday player next year. We've seen that too many times before.

Kc61
08-14-2009, 02:04 AM
Gomes is a solid DH against left handed pitching.

I give him credit for this year. He is a major league hitter which puts him head and shoulders over many of the Reds. He's one of the few who hits the ball.

Next year, he's better off in an AL platoon at the DH spot.

WVRedsFan
08-14-2009, 02:05 AM
I would hope they would find a power-hitting leftfielder who has a record of not being a flash in the pan. Not saying that Gomes is, but we signed JHJ this year based on a hot streak and look what happened. We signed Ryan Freel based on him playing over his head and now no one wants him only a couple of years later. Gomes is a fall back. If you can't find anyone else, yes. If you can, and surely you can, then let him go.

Patrick Bateman
08-14-2009, 02:32 AM
I think he's a great platoon player and pinch hitter. I think his poor fielding makes him a below average option against righties. Find him a decent platoon mate (Rick Ankiel??), and I think Gomes is an asset when he starts against lefties, and gives some needed pop off the bench on other times. A good 4th OF'der.

Plus, he seems like he really likes being a Red. I'd think he'd be willing to resign at a discount, or at least on some type of reasonable terms. But I'm not that excited about him as the everyday solution.

edabbs44
08-14-2009, 02:34 AM
I am all for keeping Gomes around as a 4th outfielder or, at worst, a platoon at our weakest outfield position. But I would hope that the FO tries to better this team significantly in the offseason and not just take the easy road and automatically plug Gomes in as an everyday player next year. We've seen that too many times before.

Agreed, but it might be wise to lock him in soon and then at least you are somewhat covered if things don't pan out in the LF market. And if they do, you have a solid platoon LFer and PHer.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2009, 02:40 AM
I'd love to see Gomes brought back next season as a 4th outfielder. He's not an everyday player but his bat is valuable as a platoon/4th outfielder.

TheNext44
08-14-2009, 03:27 AM
I think the key for the Reds is to make sure that have enough depth in the outfield that Gomes is the 4th outfielder next year. He might be able to start, but a team with him as a full time starting LF probably isn't going to be good enough to compete.

Big Klu
08-14-2009, 03:35 AM
Gomes would fit nicely into the Glenn Braggs role from the 1990 Reds--4th OF and RH power bat off the bench who can fill in at either LF or RF.

mth123
08-14-2009, 04:20 AM
Against RH Pitching

New Left Handed Guy (Dorn would be a dark horse for this role) LF
Dickerson CF
Bruce RF

Against LH Pitching

Gomes LF
Heisey CF
Balentien RF

Deal off the speedy no power guys (Taveras, Stubbs)

This team won't have any all stars in the OF, but potentially three very productive platoons that will outperform even good regular players, provide more depth and save the big bucks for a needed starter while Volquez is on the shelf. If Bruce hits and becomes the stud he's supposed to, he may move into CF against LH pitching or allow the team to jettison/bench/option whichever of Balentien, Heisey or Gomes fails.

Brutus
08-14-2009, 05:01 AM
I think the key for the Reds is to make sure that have enough depth in the outfield that Gomes is the 4th outfielder next year. He might be able to start, but a team with him as a full time starting LF probably isn't going to be good enough to compete.

It probably depends on which Jonny Gomes we expect.

If we're talking about the Gomes based on averages that include his dreadful injury-riddled season in Tampa, perhaps everyone is absolutely justified in this belief. Even without it, given his defense, I suppose it's a borderline call.

But if this particular Jonny Gomes continues to show up every day, the one hitting his peak age, motivated and playing in a hitter's park, I absolutely think it's justified to continue running him out there. As long as he keeps OPS above 900, he's a real asset even as a starter.

I don't see Gomes continuing to play this well. I feel he'll settle for a level somewhere above where he was at in Tampa but below where he is at now. Even the in-between for me is enough to start him, though I guess it depends on how in-between he goes.

Topcat
08-14-2009, 07:59 AM
The Reds excel in taking a game, or a week, or a month like this and flipping it into a 3-year deal. And then we never see anything approaching it again.

Ryan Freel also got a few curtain calls, IIRC. So did Austin Kearns.

You best do a revisionary history on Gomes, he is a solid guy with the bat and has walked a lot all his career. He should be our left fielder as Nix should also be our 5th outfielder. Cash needs to be spent on a great producing (CF) and solid shortstop. This team is not miles from being a contender its is a few shrewd moves from owning this division. Gomes is an answer not a negative at all when you factor in his salary demands.:thumbup:

savafan
08-14-2009, 08:07 AM
You best do a revisionary history on Gomes, he is a solid guy with the bat and has walked a lot all his career. He should be our left fielder as Nix should also be our 5th outfielder. Cash needs to be spent on a great producing (CF) and solid shortstop. This team is not miles from being a contender its is a few shrewd moves from owning this division. Gomes is an answer not a negative at all when you factor in his salary demands.:thumbup:

The general consensus around here anymore seems to be that all our players stink, except our minor league prospects, who are, of course, all future hall of famers.

Ltlabner
08-14-2009, 08:50 AM
The general consensus around here anymore seems to be that all our players stink, except our minor league prospects, who are, of course, all future hall of famers.

There is a world of difference between saying "all our players stink" and "maybe we should be cautious about giving Gomes an LTC because we have a history of getting nutty over players who have a hot streak and then fall apart down the road".

jojo
08-14-2009, 09:29 AM
Gomes is a solid DH against left handed pitching.

I give him credit for this year. He is a major league hitter which puts him head and shoulders over many of the Reds. He's one of the few who hits the ball.

Next year, he's better off in an AL platoon at the DH spot.

I agree. I would be pretty disappointed if he were the starting leftfielder for the Reds next season.

bucksfan2
08-14-2009, 09:32 AM
Last night was a reason to love baseball. In a lost season you have Jonny Gomes hitting 3 HR's and having a shot at 4 and having Bronson throw a 2 hit complete game shutout.

The Reds have control of Gomes for another handful of years don't they? There is no reason to sign him long term, just offer arbitration and let him walk when he isn't under their control anymore.

Ltlabner
08-14-2009, 09:34 AM
I agree. I would be pretty disappointed if he were the starting leftfielder for the Reds next season.

What's the over-under that your outfield next year is Gomes/Ballentien in LF, Taveras in CF and Bruce in RF (Dickerson traded)?

I'm still thinking that Rolen was "the big move" and with the recent play of Wlad and Gomes they'll be thinking their outfield is set for 2010.

jojo
08-14-2009, 09:47 AM
What's the over-under that your outfield next year is Gomes/Ballentien in LF, Taveras in CF and Bruce in RF (Dickerson traded)?

I'm still thinking that Rolen was "the big move" and with the recent play of Wlad and Gomes they'll be thinking their outfield is set for 2010.

I have no idea what this off season will bring exactly.

For as much as this season has been a bitter disappointment (I thought we'd see a really fun .500 team and we'd be full of hope for the future), I'm looking forward to this off season.

Jocketty has a tough road because he doesn't have any no brainer moves or valuable resources he can obviously flip to the winner of a bidding war.

I've given him a mulligan for last off season though because fear of the unknown regarding the economy probably meant all bets were off for whatever plan that might have been in place. Bob is supposed to be an evil genius business man with the veggies and all. He should have a handle on the economy by now.

Lets see what Jocketty can do.

traderumor
08-14-2009, 10:04 AM
I'm not sure that having Gomes around is a bad thing in the exact role he has filled this year. Two things that have not been true this year is that he can't hit righties and that he is horrid defensively. Maybe its a career year or maybe there is some myth involved, I'm not sure which yet, but I would keep him around as 3-1/2 outfielder unless a better opportunity arises.

BRM
08-14-2009, 10:41 AM
What's the over-under that your outfield next year is Gomes/Ballentien in LF, Taveras in CF and Bruce in RF (Dickerson traded)?

I'm still thinking that Rolen was "the big move" and with the recent play of Wlad and Gomes they'll be thinking their outfield is set for 2010.

I don't think Dickerson will get traded. I can see him and Willy sharing CF next season. Bruce is a lock for RF. LF is definitely up in the air but I certainly won't be surprised if it's Wlad's job to lose next spring.

Highlifeman21
08-14-2009, 10:58 AM
There is a world of difference between saying "all our players stink" and "maybe we should be cautious about giving Gomes an LTC because we have a history of getting nutty over players who have a hot streak and then fall apart down the road".

It would be so the Reds to give Gomes a 3 year deal, making more than 5M per year.

IMO, the Reds can't afford to give Gomes anymore than 3M per year, especially since he's a platoon player.

HokieRed
08-14-2009, 11:07 AM
Interesting 28 year old season comp for Gomes: Pat Burrell

Burrell: 669 PA/562 AB/32 HR/117RBI/160K/99BB/.281/.389/.504/.892
Gomes: 188PA/166AB/14HR/33RBI/56K/16BB/.271/.351/.566/.917

Gomes' projection for 669 PA: 50 HR/118RBI/199K/57BB

Several observations: 1. While I hope we pick up another outfield bat in the offseason, though for me this has to be weighed against other outstanding priorities: SP, everyday C, SS (not in that order necessarily), I'm sure the Phillies are happy they didn't decide Burrell was inadequate after his 28 year old season; 2. I looked at this because Gomes reminds me very much of Burrell at the plate. Looking at their whole careers to date, their home runs per AB are nearly identical, about 1 in 18, Burrell K's somewhat less, walks more, and has been a better player (though obviously not now)--but maybe by not all that much. 3. Burrell also had one really bad drop off year, though not apparently through injury, his 26 year old season: put up only .713 OPS. Bad seasons do happen. 4. Burrell's better walk rates may have something to do with the batting orders he's been in; I don't know. Gomes seems a somewhat less disciplined version of him but possibly, based on this year, more of an HR threat. 5. Haven't really thought about this much, but it's hard to see how Gomes's projections, based on PA's of Burrell, don't mean that he should play every day and bat 4th this year.

jojo
08-14-2009, 11:07 AM
I'm not sure that having Gomes around is a bad thing in the exact role he has filled this year. Two things that have not been true this year is that he can't hit righties and that he is horrid defensively. Maybe its a career year or maybe there is some myth involved, I'm not sure which yet, but I would keep him around as 3-1/2 outfielder unless a better opportunity arises.

Both UZR and Dewan's +/- suggest the Gomes is pretty bad defensively. IMHO, just watching him in the limited time he's wore a glove, Gomes doesn't strike me as an adequate defender. That said, both of these observations have to be considered anecdotal given how little we've seen.

traderumor
08-14-2009, 11:15 AM
Both UZR and Dewan's +/- suggest the Gomes is pretty bad defensively. IMHO, just watching him in the limited time he's wore a glove, Gomes doesn't strike me as an adequate defender. That said, both of these observations have to be considered anecdotal given how little we've seen.Anecdotally is right, because I have not seen anything that hints at a bad defender in LF. His downfall might be limited range, but what I have seen of his D is an average arm, perhaps even a tick above average, and he catches what he gets to. Perhaps it is a Dunn/Griffey hangover saying "he isn't an awful defender as we were warned about," but I see an average LFer who catches what he gets to, can throw out a runner and/or make a 3b coach hold the guy on a hard hit ball, and goes all out for everything.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2009, 11:16 AM
Both UZR and Dewan's +/- suggest the Gomes is pretty bad defensively. IMHO, just watching him in the limited time he's wore a glove, Gomes doesn't strike me as an adequate defender. That said, both of these observations have to be considered anecdotal given how little we've seen.

jojo, I know Dunn is now playing 1B for the Nats, but how does Gomes compare to Dunn in LF, over the years, using UZR and Dewan's +/-?

Johnny Footstool
08-14-2009, 11:18 AM
Both UZR and Dewan's +/- suggest the Gomes is pretty bad defensively. IMHO, just watching him in the limited time he's wore a glove, Gomes doesn't strike me as an adequate defender. That said, both of these observations have to be considered anecdotal given how little we've seen.

THT lists Gomes as a much worse fielder than Adam Dunn. Gomes is down in Carlos Lee territory.

traderumor
08-14-2009, 11:20 AM
THT lists Gomes as a much worse fielder than Adam Dunn. Gomes is down in Carlos Lee territory.No way. I am limited to 2009, but there is no comp to Carlos Lee. He is in Tommy Davis land.

Johnny Footstool
08-14-2009, 11:25 AM
No way. I am limited to 2009, but there is no comp to Carlos Lee. He is in Tommy Davis land.

Depends on how much stock you put in the RZR stat, but when Gomes starts accumulating innings in the outfield, he makes Carlos Lee look like Carlos Beltran.

Kc61
08-14-2009, 11:41 AM
If the Reds are going to give Gomes a regular outfield spot, then they made a horrible, horrible decision letting Dunn go. If they wanted a power guy who doesn't cover ground in the outfield, they had one of the best in Dunn.

I thought the Reds were through with guys who are essentially DHs playing the outfield. He hits three homers in a game and now suddenly that plan is out the window. Some apparently think so.

Gomes is a fine guy for the bench if there is room on a five-man bench for a righty hitting DH type who can play outfield if necessary.

What is sad, though, is that the offense is so weak that Gomes is viewed as a featured player because he is a major league caliber hitter. Which he certainly is.

Benihana
08-14-2009, 11:45 AM
If the Reds are going to give Gomes a regular outfield spot, then they made a horrible, horrible decision letting Dunn go. If they wanted a power guy who doesn't cover ground in the outfield, they had one of the best in Dunn.

I thought the Reds were through with guys who are essentially DHs playing the outfield. He hits three homers in a game and now suddenly that plan is out the window. Some apparently think so.

Gomes is a fine guy for the bench if there is room on a five-man bench for a righty hitting DH type who can play outfield if necessary.

What is sad, though, is that the offense is so weak that Gomes is viewed as a featured player because he is a major league caliber hitter. Which he certainly is.

To be fair, Gomes costs about 1/30 of Dunn, but I get your point. I like Wlad as a starter going forward more than Gomes, both because he is younger and better defensively.

But I don't think the Reds should let Gomes walk this offseason. I think they should tender him, and try to trade him for some value. If no one bites, you have a great 4th OF/first guy off the bench, especially if people have dreams of making Owings a closer (which would prevent him from pinch-hitting.) I think Gomes is a nice asset for the Reds to have, either as a trade chip or a 4th OF.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2009, 11:49 AM
If the Reds are going to give Gomes a regular outfield spot, then they made a horrible, horrible decision letting Dunn go. If they wanted a power guy who doesn't cover ground in the outfield, they had one of the best in Dunn.

I thought the Reds were through with guys who are essentially DHs playing the outfield. He hits three homers in a game and now suddenly that plan is out the window. Some apparently think so.

Gomes is a fine guy for the bench if there is room on a five-man bench for a righty hitting DH type who can play outfield if necessary.

What is sad, though, is that the offense is so weak that Gomes is viewed as a featured player because he is a major league caliber hitter. Which he certainly is.

Agree. This is what the Reds do, though. A guy like Gomes, who they didn't consider even worthy of a spot on the opening day roster (over McDonald..lol) has a great year and then they'll re-sign him, buying high and commit years and resources to someone that will probably not come close to duplicating his career year.

I'm not ripping the Reds on doing this yet. I'm just saying that this is what they do and I wouldn't be surprised.

If they re-sign him for cheap (as a 4th OFer) I have no problem, but as KC said, if they wanted a no-field/big bat in LF, they could have had that this off-season and had it for cheaper than the previous year.

Hoosier Red
08-14-2009, 11:52 AM
.

But if this particular Jonny Gomes continues to show up every day, the one hitting his peak age, motivated and playing in a hitter's park,


Can I nit pick on one of my pet peeves here. A lot of people mention so and so is good playing in a hitter's park but isn't that going to be true of any batter? Is there anyone who would be hesitant to come from Seattle or Tampa Bay or Oakland to Cincinnati?
If playing in Tampa depressed his stats, how much does playing in Cincinnati inflate his OPS?
What's the true level he should be at and how does it compare to other options?

traderumor
08-14-2009, 11:52 AM
Depends on how much stock you put in the RZR stat, but when Gomes starts accumulating innings in the outfield, he makes Carlos Lee look like Carlos Beltran.Eh, my eye isn't perfect, but I've seen both play LF, and that is simply a false statement.

Kc61
08-14-2009, 11:52 AM
To be fair, Gomes costs about 1/30 of Dunn, but I get your point. I like Wlad as a starter going forward more than Gomes, both because he is younger and better defensively.

But I don't think the Reds should let Gomes walk this offseason. I think they should tender him, and try to trade him for some value. If no one bites, you have a great 4th OF/first guy off the bench, especially if people have dreams of making Owings a closer (which would prevent him from pinch-hitting.) I think Gomes is a nice asset for the Reds to have, either as a trade chip or a 4th OF.


Dunn is more expensive than Gomes, but also hits 40 homers a year consistently.

Problem is that Gomes can't be a fourth outfielder. He isn't versatile defensively, he can't play centerfield, he is the opposite of a fourth outfielder.

The other problem is the 12 pitcher thing. In the old days of 10 pitchers and a real bench, Gomes would be a good asset as a righty hitter to play or pinch hit against lefties and occasional righties. In case of injury, there would be other guys to man centerfield or field the outfield acceptably.

Now, teams have these skimpy five-man benches. At times this year the Reds had a 13 man pitching staff and a four man bench, including a backup catcher who generally was an insurance policy and just stayed on the bench. So only three bench players were really usable.

These short benches make it harder to carry hitting specialists who don't really have a good position. So a Gomes is really best off in the AL.

By the way, just watching Gomes out there, I think his defense has improved over the year. He's done better of late. He's a feisty player, I like him, wish he was more of an all around guy.

Benihana
08-14-2009, 12:00 PM
Dunn is more expensive than Gomes, but also hits 40 homers a year consistently.

Problem is that Gomes can't be a fourth outfielder. He isn't versatile defensively, he can't play centerfield, he is the opposite of a fourth outfielder.

The other problem is the 12 pitcher thing. In the old days of 10 pitchers and a real bench, Gomes would be a good asset as a righty hitter to play or pinch hit against lefties and occasional righties. In case of injury, there would be other guys to man centerfield or field the outfield acceptably.

Now, teams have these skimpy five-man benches. At times this year the Reds had a 13 man pitching staff and a four man bench, including a backup catcher who generally was an insurance policy and just stayed on the bench. So only three bench players were really usable.

These short benches make it harder to carry hitting specialists who don't really have a good position. So a Gomes is really best off in the AL.

By the way, just watching Gomes out there, I think his defense has improved over the year. He's done better of late. He's a feisty player, I like him, wish he was more of an all around guy.

I disagree- Gomes can be a 4th OF. True he can't play CF, but he's played both RF and LF this year. He may not be good defensively, but I'd rather have him replacing a Bruce or my LF in the lineup if they went down to injury for an extended period of time than anyone else. Plus, whoever the platoon CF is (Dickerson, Heisey, Taveras, Stubbs, etc.) can be the late inning defensive replacement (5th OF.)

Johnny Footstool
08-14-2009, 02:16 PM
Eh, my eye isn't perfect, but I've seen both play LF, and that is simply a false statement.

Again, it depends on how much stock you put in RZR.

Brutus
08-14-2009, 04:00 PM
Can I nit pick on one of my pet peeves here. A lot of people mention so and so is good playing in a hitter's park but isn't that going to be true of any batter? Is there anyone who would be hesitant to come from Seattle or Tampa Bay or Oakland to Cincinnati?
If playing in Tampa depressed his stats, how much does playing in Cincinnati inflate his OPS?
What's the true level he should be at and how does it compare to other options?

It's true, sure. I think some players are going to thrive more than others though. Just watching Gomes this year, he really hits better in GABP. His numbers support that (900 OPS in Cincinnati) while hitting 800 on the road.

Looking at his FB rates, they're actually down this year compared to most years. This could be a good thing or a bad thing.

On the downside, his HR/FB rate is 25%, which is typically a little on the 'luck' side when it's that high. Although, the flip side to that argument is that Gomes has not gotten cheated on many of his homers. Many of them have been bombs that were no doubters.

On the other hand, if he goes back to hitting 55, 56% flyballs where he's been a few times in his career (he's at 48 this year), in Cincinnati he'll really thrive IMHO.

So I mean almost any hitter will experience a slight increase. You are right about that. But he seems like he's one of those players that really benefits greatly from this scenery.

Scrap Irony
08-14-2009, 04:32 PM
Against RH Pitching

New Left Handed Guy (Dorn would be a dark horse for this role) LF
Dickerson CF
Bruce RF

Against LH Pitching

Gomes LF
Heisey CF
Balentien RF

Deal off the speedy no power guys (Taveras, Stubbs)

This team won't have any all stars in the OF, but potentially three very productive platoons that will outperform even good regular players, provide more depth and save the big bucks for a needed starter while Volquez is on the shelf. If Bruce hits and becomes the stud he's supposed to, he may move into CF against LH pitching or allow the team to jettison/bench/option whichever of Balentien, Heisey or Gomes fails.

X 2 without a doubt. Great call, mth. This is certainly something I'd try, as it's seriously economical and should be fairly productive. I especially like the idea of moving Bruce to CF if he becomes the great player he's supposed to. But I'm guessing Jocketty won't do much of this, as he has a history of signing and favoring cheaper, athletic, high upside OFers with good gloves. Gomes doesn't qualify and Balentien is a question mark in that regard.

Edd Roush
08-14-2009, 04:34 PM
X 2 without a doubt. Great call, mth. This is certainly something I'd try, as it's seriously economical and should be fairly productive. I especially like the idea of moving Bruce to CF if he becomes the great player he's supposed to. But I'm guessing Jocketty won't do much of this, as he has a history of signing and favoring cheaper, athletic, high upside OFers with good gloves. Gomes doesn't qualify and Balentien is a question mark in that regard.

I, personally, am not ready to give up on Bruce against lefties. He obviously was awful against them this year, but he is still young. I give him at least until July 2010 to prove to me that he can not hit lefties before I pigeon-hole him into a plattoon player.

Topcat
08-16-2009, 05:03 AM
If the Reds are going to give Gomes a regular outfield spot, then they made a horrible, horrible decision letting Dunn go. If they wanted a power guy who doesn't cover ground in the outfield, they had one of the best in Dunn.

I thought the Reds were through with guys who are essentially DHs playing the outfield. He hits three homers in a game and now suddenly that plan is out the window. Some apparently think so.

Gomes is a fine guy for the bench if there is room on a five-man bench for a righty hitting DH type who can play outfield if necessary.

What is sad, though, is that the offense is so weak that Gomes is viewed as a featured player because he is a major league caliber hitter. Which he certainly is.

Gomes max cash value is 3 mill and Adam is not playing lf for the Reds at 3 million.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-16-2009, 03:57 PM
Gomes with a 3-run HR today, his 15th of the season despite starting the season in Louisville.

Is there any bigger indictment on this front office, GM and manager than the fact that Darnell McDonald made this team out of spring training over Gomes?

tommycash
08-16-2009, 04:27 PM
Gomes with a 3-run HR today, his 15th of the season despite starting the season in Louisville.

Is there any bigger indictment on this front office, GM and manager than the fact that Darnell McDonald made this team out of spring training over Gomes?

Good point.

cincrazy
08-16-2009, 04:29 PM
Gomes with a 3-run HR today, his 15th of the season despite starting the season in Louisville.

Is there any bigger indictment on this front office, GM and manager than the fact that Darnell McDonald made this team out of spring training over Gomes?

But DMac has speed.

flyer85
08-16-2009, 06:50 PM
not the Reds type. poor defender, high K base clogger with a lot of power.

Highlifeman21
08-16-2009, 07:50 PM
not the Reds type. poor defender, high K base clogger with a lot of power.

So you're saying Gomes is a future Washington National?

flyer85
08-16-2009, 08:11 PM
So you're saying Gomes is a future Washington National?speed and defense ... that's the ticket

Always Red
08-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Is there any bigger indictment on this front office, GM and manager than the fact that Darnell McDonald made this team out of spring training over Gomes?

Can't argue against that.

On Opening Day, I was beside myself that DMcD was the starting CF (due to injury to WT). That spoke volumes to me about how thin this club was.

Pitching and defense is great, and it's certainly necessary to win championships. Just look at the Reds history- when they had both, along with hitting, they won world championships.

They play in GABP. A team MUST be able to hit HR's in this park, because everyone else certainly will.

If I'm Jock, Gomes is my 4th or 5th OF and RH PH, next year. He's not good in the OF, but I did see him make two very nice throws last week, for what that's worth. So, he's not entirely useless out there. Just not for 1000 innings a year.

edabbs44
08-16-2009, 09:44 PM
Gomes with a 3-run HR today, his 15th of the season despite starting the season in Louisville.

Is there any bigger indictment on this front office, GM and manager than the fact that Darnell McDonald made this team out of spring training over Gomes?

Well, this FO did acquire him. That has to count for something.