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lollipopcurve
08-16-2009, 01:44 PM
Well, I guess Dusty has had enough of everybody questioning his lineups, so today he goes out and tries it himself. Good idea?

I think not.

According to Fay, Baker calls today's lineup "The Louisville." How many of the players in the lineup do you think appreciate that?

Taveras (least productive of all, or close)
Sutton
Votto (uh, sure)
Gomes (hated being sent to Louisville, but soldiered on anyway)
Balentien (has proven himself at AAA and has hit well for the Reds)
Rosales (crushed the ball in Louisville, trying to establish himself)
Janish (has been up practically all year)
Hanigan (has been solid for the Reds all year)
Lehr

To me, this is Baker in CYA mode, and I would not be surprised if comments like this do nothing but erode his players' trust in him.

He's wearing on me, too.

mth123
08-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Well, I guess Dusty has had enough of everybody questioning his lineups, so today he goes out and tries it himself. Good idea?

I think not.

According to Fay, Baker calls today's lineup "The Louisville." How many of the players in the lineup do you think appreciate that?

Taveras (least productive of all, or close)
Sutton
Votto (uh, sure)
Gomes (hated being sent to Louisville, but soldiered on anyway)
Balentien (has proven himself at AAA and has hit well for the Reds)
Rosales (crushed the ball in Louisville, trying to establish himself)
Janish (has been up practically all year)
Hanigan (has been solid for the Reds all year)
Lehr

To me, this is Baker in CYA mode, and I would not be surprised if comments like this do nothing but erode his players' trust in him.

He's wearing on me, too.

Also sounds like a backhand shot at Jocketty. Could get interesting.

mbgrayson
08-16-2009, 01:54 PM
I actually think that calling this lineup "The Louisville" is a compliment. Louisville is in first place by 10 games, whereas the Reds......well, you know.

Maybe we should call up Rick Sweet to manage, and just bring up the rest of the Bats team....may be an improvement. Let Dusty try his hand in AAA.

westofyou
08-16-2009, 01:57 PM
It's true, injuries and trades have made the lineup AAA level in most of the positions, especially when comparing the roster on OD to today.

Truth hurts, this is a 1989/1993 like roster awash with tweeners and other fodder.

Earl Weaver said the hardest thing he ever had to do was tell a player he wasn't good enough.

Dusty just did that to the whole team... and he's right.

lollipopcurve
08-16-2009, 02:01 PM
Dusty just did that to the whole team... and he's right.

Let him be right from an analyst's chair or his living room. If I'm the GM, I look very askance at comments like this from my manager.

Do you really think this is acceptable leadership?

And no, this is not a AAA ballclub.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 02:09 PM
This Taveras thing is beyond ridiculous and is now self-parody.

Spring~Fields
08-16-2009, 02:09 PM
The Reds are due for a win. It wouldn't surprise me if they had a good day.

nate
08-16-2009, 02:14 PM
Chat is open!

Chip R
08-16-2009, 02:15 PM
sigh

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 02:15 PM
Rosales calls for an infield pop up and drops it.

nate
08-16-2009, 02:17 PM
This inning is going very Redsly.

joshnky
08-16-2009, 02:20 PM
Rosales calls for an infield pop up and drops it.

But he showed a great deal of heart and hustle doing it.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 02:21 PM
Reds TRY and make the inning continue as Janish bobbles the ball but recovers to make the throw to first for the third out.

alloverjr
08-16-2009, 02:23 PM
1 pitch. 1.

Tony Cloninger
08-16-2009, 02:28 PM
Same baseball people who said the Pitcher Cannot catch the pop ups....are the same ones who said leadoff hitters have to be fast. I blame John McGraw.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 02:29 PM
Same baseball people who said the Pitcher Cannot catch the pop ups....are the same ones who said leadoff hitters have to be fast. I blame John McGraw.
I blame Bob Boone.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 02:40 PM
Either Brantley or George just did a Janis Joplin impression. The Reds are THAT exciting.


Also the Cowboy hates rap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBt_QbQ_sSc&feature=related

Tony Cloninger
08-16-2009, 02:45 PM
Balentin swung at ball 4 and 5......... after working the count very well. I really hate to see that.

Chip R
08-16-2009, 02:49 PM
Either Brantley or George just did a Janis Joplin impression. The Reds are THAT exciting.


Also the Cowboy hates rap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBt_QbQ_sSc&feature=related

Nice one. Especially that Texan Curt Hennig. :lol:

Chip R
08-16-2009, 02:50 PM
Balentin swung at ball 4 and 5......... after working the count very well. I really hate to see that.

He finally got a chance to play so he wants to stay on Dusty's good side.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 02:55 PM
Nice one. Especially that Texan Curt Hennig. :lol:
Texas. Minnesota. WCW knew geography was for losers. :p:



Is there a reason why Grande is obsessed with Jim Tracy?

mbgrayson
08-16-2009, 02:57 PM
Lehr shuts them down again in the 3rd, after 2 and a half,
Bats 0, Nats 0.

Reds4Life
08-16-2009, 03:00 PM
Is there a reason why Grande is obsessed with Jim Tracy?

Because Jim Edmunds isn't in town.

Edit: He must have a thing for guys named Jim.

Chip R
08-16-2009, 03:03 PM
Is there a reason why Grande is obsessed with Jim Tracy?

He's from Hamilton and used to manage in the Reds organization.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Dunn doubles and Willingham homers. 2-0 Nats. I have my doubts our lineup will be able to match that.

mbgrayson
08-16-2009, 03:10 PM
Willingham's homer was a towering 461 foot drive to left. A real no-doubter....

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 03:19 PM
Jeff Brantley warns young ballplayers that they do not want an empty sack.

also "That's a nice inning for Lehr. The 1-2 (realizes it's only the 2nd out)...for Lehr." Nice cover, George.

Chip R
08-16-2009, 03:42 PM
Reds score on a base hit by Votto

Chip R
08-16-2009, 03:43 PM
Gomes with a 3 run shot

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 03:43 PM
Gomes!
:jump:

HeatherC1212
08-16-2009, 03:49 PM
I had a feeling Lannon was in trouble after he walked Sutton to bring Joey up with two men on and two outs....and then Joey and Jonny proved me right. Nice job guys! :jump:

CTA513
08-16-2009, 03:53 PM
That lead might not last long.

Dunn with a double followed by a Willingham RBI double.

4-3 Reds

VR
08-16-2009, 03:58 PM
Nice to see another team play Reds baseball on the basepaths.

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 04:02 PM
Why is Lehr batting/staying in the game?


Well he doubled, but he should not go out for the 7th.

VR
08-16-2009, 04:12 PM
Why is Lehr batting/staying in the game?


Well he doubled, but he should not go out for the 7th.

He's pitched a shutout dude, where have you been?

Tom Servo
08-16-2009, 04:14 PM
Why the hell are we giving up all these hits to Wil Nieves?

Big Klu
08-16-2009, 04:43 PM
You gotta at least try to get out of the way!

Rhodes hits Dunn's shirt with a pitch.

lollipopcurve
08-16-2009, 04:45 PM
Terrible idea to burn Masset after 1 hitter in a 1 run game after Herrera and Burton have already pitched and Wells, I'm sure, is unavailable. Rhodes would face Willingham (followed by Dukes) even if he got Dunn....

VR
08-16-2009, 04:46 PM
Reds Baseball: Catch the Swine Flu

alloverjr
08-16-2009, 04:48 PM
dustyball

CrackerJack
08-16-2009, 04:48 PM
He looked out at home there...replay seems to confirm that.

KoryMac5
08-16-2009, 04:49 PM
Just an awful play all around from Dusty's decision with Massett to Dickerson dropping the ball to Sutton's lob. This product the Reds are selling is terrible. It's not even funny anymore.

HeatherC1212
08-16-2009, 04:49 PM
If Hanigan still had the ball when he was coming down with it, why is the runner not out? The runner got tagged before he touched home plate and I saw Hanigan with the ball after the play was over. :confused:

And for the record, I'm annoyed that they gave Dunn first base when he clearly did not get hit with the ball.

oneupper
08-16-2009, 04:49 PM
He looked out at home there...replay seems to confirm that.

Umps' punishment for lackadaisical play. They love to do that.

CrackerJack
08-16-2009, 04:49 PM
Terrible idea to burn Masset after 1 hitter in a 1 run game after Herrera and Burton have already pitched and Wells, I'm sure, is unavailable. Rhodes would face Willingham (followed by Dukes) even if he got Dunn....

There's always Janish...

CrackerJack
08-16-2009, 04:50 PM
Umps' punishment for lackadaisical play. They love to do that.

Not sure I can blame him...

Chip R
08-16-2009, 04:51 PM
Could have used Cordero...oh wait, can't use him till the 9th. :rolleyes:

VR
08-16-2009, 04:51 PM
Could have used Cordero...oh wait, can't use him till the 9th. :rolleyes:

, dude

KoryMac5
08-16-2009, 04:53 PM
I agree with what Brantley is saying, Cordero should have come in to face Zimmerman. What are we paying this guy for if he can't work a 4 out save.

CTA513
08-16-2009, 04:53 PM
Could have used Cordero...oh wait, can't use him till the 9th. :rolleyes:

Brantley agrees with you.

KoryMac5
08-16-2009, 04:54 PM
If Hanigan still had the ball when he was coming down with it, why is the runner not out? The runner got tagged before he touched home plate and I saw Hanigan with the ball after the play was over. :confused:

And for the record, I'm annoyed that they gave Dunn first base when he clearly did not get hit with the ball.

He didn't have both feet in bounds when he caught it. Oh wait wrong sport.

KoryMac5
08-16-2009, 04:57 PM
Nats trying for the 4 out save, imagine that.

VR
08-16-2009, 04:57 PM
Nats bringing their closer in for the last out of the 8th. Dusty is laughing at Riggleman's lack of baseball acumen. Dude.

KoryMac5
08-16-2009, 04:58 PM
Just saw a better angle on the replay Hanigan dropped the ball.

Chip R
08-16-2009, 04:59 PM
Brantley agrees with you.

I feel dirty.

oneupper
08-16-2009, 04:59 PM
Just saw a better angle on the replay Hanigan dropped the ball.

Yep, me too. No moral lessons today.

Brutus
08-16-2009, 05:03 PM
And now in the 9th inning, the Reds won't have their cleanup hitter, either, because The Dusty double-switched for him only up one run in the top of the 8th.

Great.

Tony Cloninger
08-16-2009, 05:12 PM
You know last year i gave Baker a lot of slack....and defended him when he was blasted for minor things...things that really were more like nitpicking and just piling on. The CP issue was obvious and the SD debacle can always be debated both ways.

However...watching him manage this year ... really shows how bad this guy is at simple...obvious...moves. Again...even with the bullpen he thinks it's the 70's sometimes....like these guys are Wayne Granger...Tekulve..Abernathy....guys who can go every game and if need be 3-4...whenever it suits him.

flyer85
08-16-2009, 05:17 PM
at least they didn't get swept

CTA513
08-16-2009, 05:19 PM
Reds lost 5-4

Zimmerman made another good play at 3rd even though barely played today.

alloverjr
08-16-2009, 05:20 PM
Sutton got boo'd by the 50 or so people in the park. And Brantley hammers on Baker whenever he gets the chance and making George uneasy in the process.

Unbelievably, the Nats are closing the gap fast on the Reds.

Tony Cloninger
08-16-2009, 05:25 PM
Brantley played for Baker in 1993. maybe Baker knew something more back then...or Brantley was naive....or it was just that he lucked into getting Bonds and having Burkett and Swift turn into Drysdale and Koufax for 1 year.

westofyou
08-16-2009, 05:42 PM
?

And no, this is not a AAA ballclub.

I think it is, and they keep proving it.

CarolinaRedleg
08-16-2009, 05:43 PM
The Louisville?

More like the Loserville

Spring~Fields
08-16-2009, 05:53 PM
Well I did everything I could to try and to contribute. Said something positive in the first, and stayed out of the game thread the rest of the way. Shoot, Dusty still couldn't win.

Final Washington 5, Cincinnati 4

Scoring Summary
Top 4th: Washington
- J. Willingham homered to deep left, A. Dunn scored


Bot 5th: Cincinnati
- J. Votto singled to shallow left center, R. Hanigan scored, D. Sutton to second

- J. Gomes homered to deep left, D. Sutton and J. Votto scored


Top 6th: Washington
- J. Willingham doubled to left, A. Dunn scored


Top 8th: Washington
- R. Zimmerman singled to shallow right center, A. Dunn scored, J. Willingham to third, J. Willingham scored advancing on throw

Washington Batting
2B - A Dunn 2 (25, J Lehr 2); J Willingham (25, J Lehr).

HR - J Willingham (19, 4th inning off J Lehr 1 on, 0 Out).

RBI - J Willingham 3 (50), R Zimmerman (78).

2-out RBI - R Zimmerman.

Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - J Willingham 1.

Team LOB - 6.

Base Running
CS - J Willingham (3, Home by J Lehr/R Hanigan).

Fielding
E - R Belliard (4, field).

Cincinnati Batting
2B - J Lehr (1, J Lannan).

HR - J Gomes (15, 5th inning off J Lannan 2 on, 2 Out).

S - J Lehr.

RBI - J Votto (58), J Gomes 3 (36).

2-out RBI - J Votto, J Gomes 3.

Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - D Sutton 2, P Janish 1, R Hanigan 1.

Team LOB - 8.

Base Running
SB - W Taveras (25, 2nd base off J Bergmann/W Nieves).

Fielding
E - A Rosales (5, field).

Pitching


IP H R ER BB K HR WHIP Season ERA
J. Lannan 5.2 7 4 4 3 2 1 1.36 3.68
J. Bergmann 0.1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.36 4.55
J. Sosa 1.2 1 0 0 0 1 0 1.06 2.38 (W, 2-1)
M. MacDougal 1.1 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.36 2.27 (S, 13)

Cincinnati
IP H R ER BB K HR WHIP Season ERA
J. Lehr 6.0 6 3 3 0 2 1 1.27 2.42
J. Burton 0.1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.65 5.53 (H, 5)
D. Herrera 0.2 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.39 2.42 (H, 6)
N. Masset 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.07 2.92 (H, 9)
A. Rhodes 0.2 2 2 2 0 0 0 1.06 2.50 (L, 0-1; BS, 1)
C. Fisher 1.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.40 2.88


HPB - A Dunn 2 (by J Lehr, by A Rhodes).

Pitches-strikes - M MacDougal 16-9; J Lannan 109-70; J Bergmann 6-3; J Sosa 28-18; N Masset 3-2; A Rhodes 10-8; J Lehr 94-60; J Burton 5-4; D Herrera 7-5; C Fisher 16-10.

Ground balls-fly balls - M MacDougal 2-1; J Lannan 7-11; J Bergmann 0-0; J Sosa 1-4; N Masset 1-0; A Rhodes 1-2; J Lehr 10-10; J Burton 1-1; D Herrera 0-1; C Fisher 1-1.

Batters faced - M MacDougal 4; J Lannan 28; J Bergmann 1; J Sosa 6; N Masset 1; A Rhodes 5; J Lehr 25; J Burton 2; D Herrera 2; C Fisher 3.

traderumor
08-16-2009, 06:14 PM
Well, I got home just in time to see the replay of the bush league game winning play. Nice.

Dear Bob,

If you want us to pay $20 for a seat in the outfield, $5 each for a pop & hot dog, and $7 for a beer, you really need to figure out how to put a Big League product on the field. Don't ask the guy down the street, you two already have the clueless part down. Don't blame it on injuries because good teams have major league backups, whereas you started out the year with minor leaguers in the lineup and tried to pass them off as Major League talent. If its money, you should have counted the cost before signing on the dotted line. But right now, the product on the manicured field is unacceptable and that the organization is in this shape yet again is inexcusable.

Sincerely,

TR

Spring~Fields
08-16-2009, 06:36 PM
Baseballs .500 and Below Club, 14 Teams


W L PCT
Milwaukee 58 58 .500
Minnesota 56 60 .483
Houston 56 61 .479
Toronto 55 61 .474
NY Mets 55 62 .470
Arizona 54 63 .462
Oakland 51 65 .440
Cleveland 50 66 .431
Cincinnati 50 67 .427
San Diego 49 69 .415
Baltimore 48 68 .414
Pittsburgh 46 70 .397
Kansas City 46 71 .393
Washington 43 75 .364

Matt700wlw
08-16-2009, 07:40 PM
I think it is, and they keep proving it.

The more I keep agreeing with WOY, the more scared I become...

:p:

lollipopcurve
08-16-2009, 08:29 PM
I think it is, and they keep proving it.

Find me a AAA team with talent equal to Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Cordero, Arroyo, Harang, Masset, Balentien, Gomes, for starters.

The question stands, do you think it's acceptable leadership from Baker to call his lineup The Louisville?

GAC
08-16-2009, 08:46 PM
My Gawd! I just love Dusty Baker's post-game excuses or line of reasoning......

"I take the blame -- I brought in Arthur," Baker said. "I thought he had plenty of time, because he had been warmed up the inning before. He barely hit Dunn. It barely hit his uniform."

He barely hit him? What does that mean?

And then on the Sutton soft toss back to the INF.....

Baker didn't see the play as it happened.

"I heard about it after. I was watching the baserunner at third," Baker said. "I could tell he was inching down the line. You have to be alert that they might to try score at any time. Boy, that was a tough one right there.

Well - at least someone was watching the runner inch down the 3B line.

And If I have to hear "Boy, that was a tough one right there" one more time out of Baker's mouth furniture is gonna suffer.

westofyou
08-16-2009, 10:19 PM
Find me a AAA team with talent equal to Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Cordero, Arroyo, Harang, Masset, Balentien, Gomes, for starters.

The question stands, do you think it's acceptable leadership from Baker to call his lineup The Louisville?

If you think that today's lineup was a amalgamation of MLB players then have at it, I don't. And yes it is acceptable to say what it was.

Mostly tweeners and AAA players.

WMR
08-16-2009, 11:40 PM
What is Dusty accomplishing by calling his squad such a name besides making the players resent him?

Doesn't seem like a very prudent thing to call a locker room full of guys who probably have pretty low morale as it is.

I guess Dusty is a player's manager as long as it doesn't conflict with his need to make excuses and shift blame.

Big Klu
08-17-2009, 12:56 AM
He barely hit him? What does that mean?

I'm not making excuses--I'm just trying to interpret....

The ball never made contact with Dunn's body. It nicked his baggy shirt. If players wore the more form-fitting uniforms of the 70's and 80's, Dunn never would have been hit. Furthermore, Dunn made absolutely no attempt to get out of the way. I wish umpires would either call that the way it is written, or that MLB would remove it from the rule book.

WVRedsFan
08-17-2009, 02:50 AM
If you think that today's lineup was a amalgamation of MLB players then have at it, I don't. And yes it is acceptable to say what it was.

Mostly tweeners and AAA players.

Exactly. Name one supposed contending MLB team that would have Taveras, Rosales, Janish, and Sutton starting. Not one. Get beyond the injuries. Would Jay Bruce be starting for a contender with his problems? No. Would Laynce Nix or Jonny Gomes? Nope. They were DFA'd. It is what it is, gang.

cumberlandreds
08-17-2009, 08:23 AM
My Gawd! I just love Dusty Baker's post-game excuses or line of reasoning......

"I take the blame -- I brought in Arthur," Baker said. "I thought he had plenty of time, because he had been warmed up the inning before. He barely hit Dunn. It barely hit his uniform."

He barely hit him? What does that mean?

And then on the Sutton soft toss back to the INF.....

Baker didn't see the play as it happened.

"I heard about it after. I was watching the baserunner at third," Baker said. "I could tell he was inching down the line. You have to be alert that they might to try score at any time. Boy, that was a tough one right there.

Well - at least someone was watching the runner inch down the 3B line.

And If I have to hear "Boy, that was a tough one right there" one more time out of Baker's mouth furniture is gonna suffer.

It was a stupid move by Baker to bring in Rhodes when he did and thought it at the time. After Dunn you have righty hitters. If you have that low of confidence in Masset to get Dunn out, just walk him. With saying that Masset is more than capable of getting him out. Just a really stupid move by Baker.
As for Sutton I would send him back to AAA just to prove a point. If you make a stupid mental blunder like that expect some consequences. But when a manager makes just as bad a move a few minutes before that you can't expect them to do anything to Sutton or anyone else.
Oh well,what can you expect from a AAA team. :dunno:

Ltlabner
08-17-2009, 09:07 AM
I'm not making excuses--I'm just trying to interpret....

The ball never made contact with Dunn's body. It nicked his baggy shirt. If players wore the more form-fitting uniforms of the 70's and 80's, Dunn never would have been hit. Furthermore, Dunn made absolutely no attempt to get out of the way. I wish umpires would either call that the way it is written, or that MLB would remove it from the rule book.

I don't know if it was mentioned in the thread but I had the TV on for a few minutes and saw this play.

The Cowboy first made the comment that Dunn made no effort to move. The tone he used made it sound like a shot but I let it go. Then, on the replay, he made a comment to the effect of "that's what you do to avoid a strikeout".

I'm not a huge Cowboy fan anyway, but that was a new low.

traderumor
08-17-2009, 10:21 AM
Find me a AAA team with talent equal to Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Cordero, Arroyo, Harang, Masset, Balentien, Gomes, for starters.

The question stands, do you think it's acceptable leadership from Baker to call his lineup The Louisville?Considering Votto was the only legitimate major leaguer in the lineup? Even the starting pitcher is a career minor leaguer. He could have called it The Spring Training and communicated the same message. Maybe he wanted to send a cryptic message to Walt to give him some major leaguers. Other than the Taveras/Dickerson issue, it isn't like he's been handed good players and he plays the minor leaguers instead.

lollipopcurve
08-17-2009, 10:52 AM
Considering Votto was the only legitimate major leaguer in the lineup? Even the starting pitcher is a career minor leaguer. He could have called it The Spring Training and communicated the same message. Maybe he wanted to send a cryptic message to Walt to give him some major leaguers. Other than the Taveras/Dickerson issue, it isn't like he's been handed good players and he plays the minor leaguers instead.

Not the context I was speaking in -- we were discussing the team as a whole.

As for what Baker said about the lineup, I find it hard to believe people can accept this kind of statement and at the same time claim that Baker truly is a "players' manager." Seems to me he's kicking these guys when they're down in classic CYA fashion. This could be an absolutely brutal last 6 weeks, and what he needs to keep in mind is that a foundation for 2010 will be built, in some fashion, and it will depend in part on how he handles the clubhouse from here on out. I'm going to be very interested to see how well he holds up. His calling the lineup "The Louisville" may amount to nothing. I may be blowing it totally out of proportion, cuz that's kinda what we do here. He certainly could come out and say all the right things, at least to my ear, and help the team go down with some measure of dignity. But, like I said, he's got my attention now, and probably the team's too, because you always have to wonder how an organization will handle a manager going into the last year of his contract.

flyer85
08-17-2009, 11:32 AM
The Cowboy first made the comment that Dunn made no effort to move. The tone he used made it sound like a shot but I let it go. Then, on the replay, he made a comment to the effect of "that's what you do to avoid a strikeout".

I'm not a huge Cowboy fan anyway, but that was a new low.
I don't think that comment was a shot at Dunn, Rhodes is tough on lefties.

IMO Dunn was wanting to get on any way he could to help his team win.