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Will M
08-17-2009, 08:23 PM
As the final trade deadline and offseason approach I have been thinking about what the Reds need to be a winning team.I would love to add Lackey, Harden, Holliday, O Hudson,etc,etc but that ain't gonna happen unless Warren Buffett buys the team. As ORG members know the team has limited resources (money for free agents and prospects for trade) so they can't fill every need as well as we fans would like. So what is YOUR ranking of the Reds' needs? Below is mine.

Note - this thread is about the 25 man roster for 2010 and beyond. Plesae don't list 'fire Dusty' or 'fire Walt'.

#1 - a shortstop. pretty simple, we have no one in the system who can man the position as a regular for 2010. Cozart is a nice prospect but I think we would do him a disservice by having him skip AAA.

Note: if Phillips were to move to SS we would need a player to play 2B in 2010 as the Reds don't seem to be fast tracking Frazier. My guess is he starts 2010 in AAA.

#2 - Another starting pitcher. Right now our rotation is Harang (ERA+ 103), Cueto (ERA+ 97), Arroyo (ERA+ 94), Owings (ERA+ 83) & Bailey (ERA+ 60). Yikes!!! Lets assume Cueto skips winter ball & Bailey improves for 2010. IMO the rotation still looks mighty shaky. Who else do we have? Wood is a nice prospect but I bet he starts 2010 in AAA. Maloney seems to be out of favor by the Reds brass. Maybe because of the flyballs. He could be trade bait this winter.

So pretty much any SP with an ERA+ of 100 or better would help the team.

IMO Volquez should NOT be counted on in 2010. Anything he gives us is a plus. His estimated return time is somewhere between 5/1/2010 & 8/1/2010. Pitchers one year from TJ surgery are not nearly as strong as they are 2 years after TJ surgery. Plus he didn't just have TJ surgery, he had some mass removed from the forearm muscles. Doesn't sound good.

#3 - Left fielder/stud hitter. for me this ranks below another SP. if the choice was Holliday and the rotation we have vs Lackey with Gomes in LF I'll' take Lackey. if the choice was a league average LF and the rotation we have vs an ERA+ 100 SP with Gomes in LF I'll' still take the pitcher.
Don't get me wrong. If Bob C opens up the wallet big time I'll take a SS, a TOR starter & a stud hitter for LF. I just feel we don't have those resources and we would be better off trying to fill the LF void cheaper.
IMO the Reds should keep Gomes (2010 cost $2-3M) and look for a LH bat for LF. Play Gomes in vs LHP (~40 games) and sit either the new LH bat or Bruce vs LHP. CF is manned by Dickerson and either Heisey or Stubbs.

#4 - 2nd catcher. Hanigan is a nice player but having him as the #1 catcher with either Tatum or some Paul Bako type backup won't cut it. I'd like the team to sign some veteran catcher who can handle the position defensively & OPS+ 90. .

#5 - adding another middle reliever. with the recent trades of 3 pitchers the pen is a bit thin. adding a decent vet for a 2 year/$4M deal (like Rhodes last year) seems like a solid addition to the team

jojo
08-17-2009, 08:28 PM
#1: Get smarter quick.

GAC
08-17-2009, 08:30 PM
Couldn't we just keep "copying and paste" this every year? ;)

Kc61
08-17-2009, 09:06 PM
#3 - Left fielder/stud hitter. for me this ranks below another SP. if the choice was Holliday and the rotation we have vs Lackey with Gomes in LF I'll' take Lackey. if the choice was a league average LF and the rotation we have vs an ERA+ 100 SP with Gomes in LF I'll' still take the pitcher.
Don't get me wrong. If Bob C opens up the wallet big time I'll take a SS, a TOR starter & a stud hitter for LF. I just feel we don't have those resources and we would be better off trying to fill the LF void cheaper.
IMO the Reds should keep Gomes (2010 cost $2-3M) and look for a LH bat for LF. Play Gomes in vs LHP (~40 games) and sit either the new LH bat or Bruce vs LHP. CF is manned by Dickerson and either Heisey or Stubbs.



The Reds play in a hitter's stadium. They have a teamwide OPS of .693 as of today. That is tied for the worst in the NL. The worst.

The pitching overall is middle of the pack. The defense is above average. When you consider their stadium, the Reds' offense is a contender for the worst in baseball. It very likely is the worst in the National League.

The obvious and overwhelming team need is offense. The Reds need a power hitter for the middle of the lineup and somebody who can get on base.

HokieRed
08-17-2009, 09:28 PM
The Reds play in a hitter's stadium. They have a teamwide OPS of .693 as of today. That is tied for the worst in the NL. The worst.

The pitching overall is middle of the pack. The defense is above average. When you consider their stadium, the Reds' offense is a contender for the worst in baseball. It very likely is the worst in the National League.

The obvious and overwhelming team need is offense. The Reds need a power hitter for the middle of the lineup and somebody who can get on base.

1.With a .957 OPS and a homerun every 11.5 AB's Gomes may be part of that solution, or will he be the next offensive player the Reds fail to recognize appropriately?

2. Can Juan Francisco move Joey Votto to left? [assuming he can't displace Rolen from third] Can Votto play right? Can Gomes? Will the Reds move somebody into RF if he (Francisco or Gomes) outperforms Jay Bruce?

Just questions. I'd rank the needs 1. SP, 2. SS, 3. C, 4. OF (ranked 4th only because it seems to me we have a better chance here of putting together something approaching a solution from within)

cincrazy
08-17-2009, 09:29 PM
1. A competent front office that works on the same page.

2. A manager who is walking step by step with the front office (see Francona, Terry).

Fill in those holes, and the rest will magically fall into place.

RedsManRick
08-17-2009, 09:29 PM
I'm with Jojo. Until we get a management team that is willing to join the 21st century, the rest of the conversation is moot.

Will M
08-17-2009, 09:31 PM
The Reds play in a hitter's stadium. They have a teamwide OPS of .693 as of today. That is tied for the worst in the NL. The worst.

The pitching overall is middle of the pack. The defense is above average. When you consider their stadium, the Reds' offense is a contender for the worst in baseball. It very likely is the worst in the National League.

The obvious and overwhelming team need is offense. The Reds need a power hitter for the middle of the lineup and somebody who can get on base.

First, some offensive improvements should come from within:
Rolen at 3B (OPS+ 120) vs EE (OPS+ 83) and Rosales (OPS+62).
(Hopefully) better offense from CF. Less (none??? :pray: ) Taveras (OPS+ 47) and more Dickerson (OPS+ 93) and either Heisey or Stubbs.
Bruce can hopefully make the adjustments he needs to go from being a below average player to someday being an All Star.

Second, my #1 ranked need is a SS. Getting a guy who can play the position and OPS+ 100 beats the you know what out of Gonzo/Janish (OPS+43).

Third, I am not saying don't upgrade LF. I am saying that I believe LF should be upgraded on the cheap after upgrading SS & adding another starter.
I concede to you the point that the pitching has been league average. Mostly because of ~263 incredible IP by Cordero, Rhodes, Weathers, Masset, Herrera & Fisher. If they repeat this next year the overall pitching could again be average despite our awful 4th/5th starters. However, I feel the Reds would win more games by using their limited resources to add a TOR/MOR starter and trying to fill LF on the cheap (LH partner for Gomes) than committing their limited resources to LF and going with the rotation we have.

4256 Hits
08-17-2009, 09:31 PM
I would put a high OBP CF as #2 since we all know the CF hits lead-off the Reds must find one that will get on base atleast 35% of the time.

cincrazy
08-17-2009, 09:34 PM
I'm with Jojo. Until we get a management team that is willing to join the 21st century, the rest of the conversation is moot.

I'd settle for them joining the 20th CENTURY, let alone the 21st.

Will M
08-17-2009, 09:37 PM
I would put a high OBP CF as #2 since we all know the CF hits lead-off the Reds must find one that will get on base atleast 35% of the time.

interesting that you list CF as a need. i assume (perhaps wrongly) that Dickerson with either Heisey or Stubbs can hold down CF.

Kc61
08-17-2009, 09:38 PM
1.With a .957 OPS and a homerun every 11.5 AB's Gomes may be part of that solution, or will he be the next offensive player the Reds fail to recognize appropriately?

2. Can Juan Francisco move Joey Votto to left? [assuming he can't displace Rolen from third] Can Votto play right? Can Gomes? Will the Reds move somebody into RF if he (Francisco or Gomes) outperforms Jay Bruce?

Just questions. I'd rank the needs 1. SP, 2. SS, 3. C, 4. OF (ranked 4th only because it seems to me we have a better chance here of putting together something approaching a solution from within)

If the Reds don't sign a left fielder from outside, I'd like them to give Francisco an extended look out there. If he can play the position, JF would be add a lot of pop to the lineup.

HokieRed
08-17-2009, 09:48 PM
KC, what do you do with Gomes?

westofyou
08-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Courage, a Brain a Heart and a girl with a good voice to belt out the National Anthem at the world series.

http://www.advancedgraphics.com/store/pc/catalog/woz.jpg

4256 Hits
08-17-2009, 10:59 PM
interesting that you list CF as a need. i assume (perhaps wrongly) that Dickerson with either Heisey or Stubbs can hold down CF.

There is a chance they could, Dickerson has best chance, but you know the rules the player being paid the most plays so until the Reds has a CF making more the WT he is going to play CF. So the only way get WT out of CF is to sign a FA. :rolleyes:

Chip R
08-17-2009, 11:03 PM
There is a chance they could, Dickerson has best chance, but you know the rules the player being paid the most plays so until the Reds has a CF making more the WT he is going to play CF. So the only way get WT out of CF is to sign a FA. :rolleyes:


Juan Pierre?

edabbs44
08-17-2009, 11:06 PM
There is a chance they could, Dickerson has best chance, but you know the rules the player being paid the most plays so until the Reds has a CF making more the WT he is going to play CF. So the only way get WT out of CF is to sign a FA. :rolleyes:

Dickerson playing CF in 2009 [rpbbaly isn't going to get us there. Better than WT? Sure. But he'll just be next on the complaint list.

dougdirt
08-17-2009, 11:19 PM
First, some offensive improvements should come from within:
Rolen at 3B (OPS+ 120) vs EE (OPS+ 83) and Rosales (OPS+62).
(Hopefully) better offense from CF. Less (none??? :pray: ) Taveras (OPS+ 47) and more Dickerson (OPS+ 93) and either Heisey or Stubbs.
Bruce can hopefully make the adjustments he needs to go from being a below average player to someday being an All Star.

I think we had the same idea's this season as well. Instead we got Willy Taveras, Ramon Hernandez and Alex Gonzalez.

mth123
08-18-2009, 05:36 AM
I think we had the same idea's this season as well. Instead we got Willy Taveras, Ramon Hernandez and Alex Gonzalez.

Yup. Maybe Walt can actually see it this time.

Hokie makes an interesting scenario.

Against RHP

Dickerson CF
New guy with OB Skills SS
Votto LF
Rolen 3B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Francisco or Stop Gap with Alonso Eventually 1B
Hanigan/New Guy C


Against LHP

New Guy with OB Skills SS
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Gomes LF
Balentien RF
Bruce CF
Hanigan/New Guy C

Topcat
08-18-2009, 06:38 AM
1. better amounts spent on coaching
2. Top guys in the profession of scouting
3. Managing assets well and trading them when the asset is high and yet blocked at MLB level( aka ignore the Angels and Stonemans plan)
4. Acquire 2 high end Free agents every 5 seasons
5. Dallas Mavericks plan when it comes to locker room and accommodations towards players. (aka pamper there buts with desired meals and all the gimmicks a per locker, Private Jet etc.)
6. Hire a real Medical staff Kremchek has failed to often and another option is now in dire need.)
7. Sabre metrics it is now part ofg game utilize it!
8. Sell to the vets trying to acquire a environment that is more viable towards family and community.

puca
08-18-2009, 06:56 AM
A (true) shortstop with on-base-skills is tough to get. Even if the Reds had money and/or prospects to burn they would have had a tough time landing one.

I agree that it is a huge need, but it is unlikely to happen.

edabbs44
08-18-2009, 07:07 AM
A (true) shortstop with on-base-skills is tough to get. Even if the Reds had money and/or prospects to burn they would have had a tough time landing one.

I agree that it is a huge need, but it is unlikely to happen.

Exactly. The shelves at "SS with OB Skills R' Us" are pretty barren.

schroomytunes
08-18-2009, 08:16 AM
Ok here is my two cents, and I'm trying to be realistic as I can. So here goes:

1)SS- this is a definite hole both offensively and defensively. The Reds dont need a superstar here, but they need some stability. We need a .250-.280 hitter here, and someone that can hold down the spot until Valaika/Cozart are ready. (My Pick.....Marco Scutero)

2)LF-Ok we have had basically 0 production out of LF all year, Granted I like what I've seen of Gomes, but I think he is more of a platoon guy. I want a starter that has solid numbers. (My Pick...Xavier Nady)

3)SP- We are gonna need an innings type guy in the rotation to take the pressure off of Volquez' injury. I prefer to use Homer out of the pen in 2010, and would really like a lefty in the rotation, but would settle for a #3 type also. (My Picks....Doug Davis(LHSP) or Rich Harden(RHSP)

4)C-Hanigan has done a nice job, but I dont think he is a 120 game a year guy, I think he's capable of 80-100 games and we need to acquire a veteran backup gut to platoon with him.(My Pick....Jason Kendall)

5)Bullpen-Our pen is our strength I like it, hard to find alot of weaknesses to it, but always good to add a guy to make it even better. So I try to add another middle inning guy to the mix, a veteran perferably to go along with the youngsters in place. (My Pick...Joe Beimel)

just some of my ideas, I think my targets are all finanically in our $$ range, and would love it if 2-3 of them actually signed

Spring~Fields
08-18-2009, 12:55 PM
Left field offense/fielder
Right field offense/fielder
Center field offense/fielder
Short stop
Healthy third baseman
Productive bench players
Players that can hit both right handed and left handed pitching vs. just one or the other along with a GM and his staff that recognizes the difference.
Cleanup batter that can hit both, right handed and left handed pitching
Players that can perform with greater on base percentage
Consistent starting pitchers.

Major aggregate upgrade.

Falls City Beer
08-18-2009, 01:02 PM
The problems aren't just many, they're profound, dense, and unwieldy. There's just no getting a toehold in this massy, nebulous funk.

Highlifeman21
08-18-2009, 01:31 PM
1. Talent


Unfortunately, the list of things needed in order to add talent to the Reds isn't short.

hippie07
08-18-2009, 02:59 PM
Yup. Maybe Walt can actually see it this time.

Hokie makes an interesting scenario.

Against RHP

Dickerson CF
New guy with OB Skills SS
Votto LF
Rolen 3B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Francisco or Stop Gap with Alonso Eventually 1B
Hanigan/New Guy C


Against LHP

New Guy with OB Skills SS
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Gomes LF
Balentien RF
Bruce CF
Hanigan/New Guy C


I like this idea..... outfield defense would be a little shaky w/ the LHP option, but this is definitely a solid option. This being said - here's my top needs:

#1: Starting Pitching
#2: shortshop w/ on base skills
#3: backup catcher

Here's how I'd address them:
#1: Sign 2 of: John Lackey, Brett Myers, Doug Davis or Randy Wolf
#2: Trade: Cordero (I'm a big fan of keeping Cordero but if it frees up money for Starting Pitching help- I'm for it) to LAA for Brandon Wood. If this gets done then let Bailey and Massett battle it out for closer. If this doesn't get done, then sign only one of the above SP's and sign Marco Scutaro.
#3 Sign a C: not sure here... Josh Bard(?), Bengie Molina(?)

CarolinaRedleg
08-18-2009, 04:12 PM
The most pressing need:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/tplester119/DFA.jpg

GAC
08-18-2009, 05:05 PM
A (true) shortstop with on-base-skills is tough to get. Even if the Reds had money and/or prospects to burn they would have had a tough time landing one.

I agree that it is a huge need, but it is unlikely to happen.


Exactly. The shelves at "SS with OB Skills R' Us" are pretty barren.

Very true gentlemen. Now that AGon is gone, it's going to be interesting to see how this FO addresses the SS need. The upcoming FA list doesn't look too promising. But that obviously is a dire need at the top of Walt's list.

I personally think Walt was simply blowing smoke up everyone's butt with the notion he was "open" to moving Phillips to SS, because he would have done so for the remainder of this season since it's a lost cause.

I personally could have "handled" AGon in 2010 IF this FO had really made the effort to seriously upgrade the other areas of dire need on this team (below). A player like AGon could be "absorbed" in the offense if those upgrade had been made.

So in addition to that .....

CF? I'm afraid we're going to see the Taveras/Dickerson tandem in 2010 unless Walt decides to do one of two things....

- spend the money and/or sacrifice some prospects, in order to pick up an established CFer.
- Or continue to hope that a prospect like Heisey will show continued improvement at AAA Louisville. He certainly proved himself at AA. But he didn't get a AAA promotion until around 7 weeks ago, so IMO you'll see him at Louisville for the 2010 season to show that he's not another Denorfia. Stubbs I am not impressed with at all. Heisey is the only "hope" between the two IMO. So if this is the direction Walt is heading, then that is why I say you'll see Taveras/Dickerson platooning in CF next year. Walt exercises patience and crossed fingers over money.

I still say try to pry 27 yr old Grady Sizemore from the Indians. :p:

The owner is in another "rebuild" mode and is listening to all offers right now as the organization will lose 16M this year.

LF? Say hello to Johnny Gomes and ????

Catcher.... will Ramon be back @ 8M/yr? I didn't think he would. But looking at Hanigan's slide since getting the starting nod due to Ramon's injury, I say Walt picks up Ramon's option.

HokieRed
08-18-2009, 05:08 PM
If I thought we could cover all 4 of what I see as our most pressing needs, I'd rank them like this: 1. SS, 2. SP, 3. C, 4. OF with stick. But I don't think we'll be able to cover all those, and I do think it is imperative for us to get better even though we have, IMO, no chance whatever to contend in 2010. So, with that goal in mind, the rank order becomes 1. SP, 2. Somebody who can hit, position irrelevant; we'll adjust positions. [of course not completely irrelevant but less important than the ability to hit.]

LoganBuck
08-18-2009, 05:20 PM
The most pressing need:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/tplester119/DFA.jpg

Signing Willy Taveras this offseason, and continuing to play him, is like going all in with a 2 of spades, and a 3 of hearts, showing them to everyone else, while the Ace, King, and Queen of clubs got flopped.

Muck your cards

Spring~Fields
08-18-2009, 05:49 PM
He looks so much like Corey to me. ;)

GAC
08-18-2009, 07:14 PM
He looks so much like Corey to me. ;)

Corey could at least play CF. ;)

Spring~Fields
08-18-2009, 07:34 PM
Corey could at least play CF. ;)

Shooo! don't encourage it, Corey is still out there and Dusty knows it. :eek: