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View Full Version : Drew Stubbs called up, Taveras to DL



mbgrayson
08-19-2009, 03:36 PM
Reds Reporter (http://www.redreporter.com/2009/8/19/995097/drew-stubbs-to-be-called-up-and):



This hasn't been officially announced by the Reds (http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/teams/CIN) yet, but I have a solid source on this one that says that center field prospect Drew Stubbs (http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/players/32816/Drew_Stubbs) is getting the call to the big leagues and will be with the team in Cincinnati tonight.


Dayton Daily News Hal MCoy Blog (http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/):




Stubbs on his way to Cincinnati? (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/08/19/stubbs_on_his_way_to_cincinnat.html)
By Brian Kollars (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/08/19/stubbs_on_his_way_to_cincinnat.html#postcomment)| Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 01:51 PM
There’s plenty of chatter today about the Reds calling up outfielder Drew Stubbs from Louisville.We’ll update this story as we get new information.

Cyclone792
08-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Most likely our favorite boy in center, Willy T, is DL bound.

If so, let's hope he stays there for 14 months.

Patrick Bateman
08-19-2009, 03:38 PM
Well okay, at least we're getting 1 of the 3 moves we were promised :)

RichRed
08-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Is this like when Jim Beattie was going to be the GM?

lollipopcurve
08-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Sounding more certain.

So, Taveras has a mildly pulled quad? I don't think it's a good idea to mess with an injured quad muscle for 4 months, that's why they call it a quad, I believe.

Falls City Beer
08-19-2009, 03:45 PM
Watch the RS balloon!

dougdirt
08-19-2009, 03:48 PM
Is this like when Jim Beattie was going to be the GM?

No. I have been hearing it for the last 4 hours or so, from a reliable source. Just no confirmation yet.

RichRed
08-19-2009, 03:49 PM
Sounding more certain.

So, Taveras has a mildly pulled quad? I don't think it's a good idea to mess with an injured quad muscle for 4 months, that's why they call it a quad, I believe.

I'm no doctor, but this sounds right to me (although it could be 4 years).

traderumor
08-19-2009, 03:49 PM
Sounding more certain.

So, Taveras has a mildly pulled quad? I don't think it's a good idea to mess with an injured quad muscle for 4 months, that's why they call it a quad, I believe.I think it takes at least 14 months for one of those things to heal. Nothing to mess with, be extra cautious.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 03:50 PM
No. I have been hearing it for the last 4 hours or so, from a reliable source. Just no confirmation yet.Is that like a continuous message, such as "this zone is for the loading and unloading of passengers only"? :) That would drive me crazy.

OnBaseMachine
08-19-2009, 03:52 PM
Stubbs will struggle with the bat, though he should get on base at a better clip than Taveras and his defense is much better too.

Now just move Phillips to SS and call up Todd Frazier.

HeatherC1212
08-19-2009, 03:53 PM
That would be great to see Drew called up but I'm trying not to get my hopes up right now, LOL ;) :D

VR
08-19-2009, 03:53 PM
Watch the RS balloon!

Nah, Drew Sutton is your new centerfielder. Duster needs to keep Stubbs down so he can learn how big leaguers play the game.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 03:54 PM
That would be great to see Drew called up but I'm trying not to get my hopes up right now, LOL ;) :DYou act as if there was a false alarm at some point. You know, I thought I saw something on here yesterday, but a search revealed nothing, almost as if it was deleted or something :cool:

Caveat Emperor
08-19-2009, 03:55 PM
Most likely our favorite boy in center, Willy T, is DL bound.

Word is that an MRI revealed a total lack of talent in his body.

REDSEER
08-19-2009, 03:56 PM
I'd be interested to see how Stubbs would do offensively at the MLB level. We know that his defense will be top-notch and (hopefully) he can steal some bases.

flyer85
08-19-2009, 03:58 PM
:sleep:

Reds Fanatic
08-19-2009, 03:58 PM
Fay is now reporting the same thing but no official announcement yet.

HeatherC1212
08-19-2009, 03:59 PM
You act as if there was a false alarm at some point. You know, I thought I saw something on here yesterday, but a search revealed nothing, almost as if it was deleted or something :cool:

My hope is more for Willy T being sent somewhere where he can't play for the Reds for a LONG TIME than it is for Drew being called up although I have wanted to see him play for a while now. I'm a fan of anything that gets WT out of the lineup, LOL :beerme: :thumbup: :p:

edabbs44
08-19-2009, 03:59 PM
Fay is now reporting the same thing but no official announcement yet.

McCoy probably got the tip from Reds Reporter and then Fay pulled from Hal.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:02 PM
McCoy probably got the tip from Reds Reporter and then Fay pulled from Hal.ESPN Desportes is reporting that WT has killed a chicken that put a curse on Hal for his comments yesterday.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:16 PM
I bet the Reds are waiting to announce the call up as stragety against Dusty's old club. They are really gonna be snookered when they find out WT can't play.

BRM
08-19-2009, 04:19 PM
Let's hope Dusty actually plays Stubbs if he gets called up.

bucksfan2
08-19-2009, 04:21 PM
They keep roping me in. Last night it was to watch Lincecum pitch. Tonight it will be to see if Stubbs gets into the game.

OldXOhio
08-19-2009, 04:23 PM
Word is that an MRI revealed a total lack of talent in his body.

Outstanding

Tom Servo
08-19-2009, 04:25 PM
But were they just hypothesizing about Stubbs getting called up? ;)

Always Red
08-19-2009, 04:26 PM
Let's hope Dusty actually plays Stubbs if he gets called up.

Well, ya know he just got here and is probably a little overwhelmed by his surroundings. He needs to sit and watch for a week or so. ;)

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:26 PM
But were they just hypothesizing about Stubbs getting called up? ;)11larkin11, have you heard anything from Lance :p:

Sea Ray
08-19-2009, 04:28 PM
He's not on the 40 man roster. Do you they have room?

BCubb2003
08-19-2009, 04:29 PM
C. Trent says it's official that Stubbs is called up. It's likely that Taveras will be DLed, but no word yet.

11larkin11
08-19-2009, 04:29 PM
Hmm. Who listens to actual reports? Most of us just go by rumors. :D

MikeS21
08-19-2009, 04:30 PM
Just got a text that Drew Stubbs is in the lineup tonight, batting leadoff and playing CF.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:30 PM
C. Trent says it's official that Stubbs is called up. It's likely that Taveras will be DLed, but no word yet.Walt said he's still working on things and you don't want to mess with that. I guess he must be done working on things.

HeatherC1212
08-19-2009, 04:30 PM
He's not on the 40 man roster. Do you they have room?

They can probably move any of our half dozen players who should all ready be on the 60 day DL over to that list so they can make a spot for Drew. This seems so logical that it probably won't happen, LOL :p:

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Just got a text that Drew Stubbs is in the lineup tonight, batting leadoff and playing CF.Dude, you get texts from teh Dusty?

redsmetz
08-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Per Reds Twitter: Reds Lineup Drew Stubbs CF Janish SS Votto 1B Phillips 2B Gomes RF Balentien LF Rosales 3B Harang C Arroyo P

Cyclone792
08-19-2009, 04:32 PM
C. Trent says it's official that Stubbs is called up. It's likely that Taveras will be DLed, but no word yet.

Willy T really needs to be red boxed, but instead it looks like he'll be Lincoln'd. Ah well, beggars can't be choosers ... at least he's off the roster in some form.

nate
08-19-2009, 04:32 PM
Mark Sheldon just twitted thusly:

Stubbs 8 Janish 6 Votto 3 Phillips 4 Gomes 9 Balentien 7 Rosales 5 Hanigan 2 Arroyo 1

nate
08-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Thunder stolen :(

CTA513
08-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Per Reds Twitter: Reds Lineup Drew Stubbs CF Janish SS Votto 1B Phillips 2B Gomes RF Balentien LF Rosales 3B Harang C Arroyo P

:eek:

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Per Reds Twitter: Reds Lineup Drew Stubbs CF Janish SS Votto 1B Phillips 2B Gomes RF Balentien LF Rosales 3B Harang C Arroyo PKeep it classy, Reds. No announcement, just a lineup with a callup in it. Butcher must be tired of this crap too.

HeatherC1212
08-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Per Reds Twitter: Reds Lineup Drew Stubbs CF Janish SS Votto 1B Phillips 2B Gomes RF Balentien LF Rosales 3B Harang C Arroyo P

I really hope that 'Harang' is supposed to be 'Hanigan' because Aaron may be shocked to find out he's catching tonight, LOL :laugh:

Yay for Drew! :thumbup:

Cyclone792
08-19-2009, 04:33 PM
Mark Sheldon just twitted thusly:

Stubbs 8 Janish 6 Votto 3 Phillips 4 Gomes 9 Balentien 7 Rosales 5 Hanigan 2 Arroyo 1

Remember, dude, that shortstops also bat 2nd, even those with a lifetime .281 on-base percentage.

MikeS21
08-19-2009, 04:34 PM
Dude, you get texts from teh Dusty?
:D Actually, I get text messages sent straight to my phone from Twitter. I follow the official Cincinnati Reds Twitter feed. So this is the official feed straight from the organization.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 04:36 PM
:D Actually, I get text messages sent straight to my phone from Twitter. I follow the official Cincinnati Reds Twitter feed. So this is the official feed straight from the organization.Dang, was getting ready to ask you for free tickets---cause I sure taint paying for anymore this season.

redsmetz
08-19-2009, 04:36 PM
I really hope that 'Harang' is supposed to be 'Hanigan' because Aaron may be shocked to find out he's catching tonight, LOL :laugh:

Yay for Drew! :thumbup:

Someone else just pointed that out on the ML forum. I just cut and pasted it from Twitter. LOL

11larkin11
08-19-2009, 04:37 PM
Maybe I'm psychic and was just one day early?

reds44
08-19-2009, 04:39 PM
He's in CF and leading off.

I have a reason to watch the game tonight.

pedro
08-19-2009, 04:39 PM
hard to get excited about a guy OPSing .713 in AAA.

At least he can catch the ball I guess.

11larkin11
08-19-2009, 04:41 PM
hard to get excited about a guy OPSing .713 in AAA.

At least he can catch the ball I guess.

Personally, Slugging is the last thing I care about from a leadoff hitter. He will get on base, steal bases, and play gold glove defense.

Scrap Irony
08-19-2009, 04:41 PM
I pray Stubbs dominates so that Jocketty and company can see someone else in CF.

I don't think he will, though, and that the Reds will again be stuck with WT next season patrolling CF.

edabbs44
08-19-2009, 04:43 PM
Willy T really needs to be red boxed, but instead it looks like he'll be Lincoln'd. Ah well, beggars can't be choosers ... at least he's off the roster in some form.

I thought that read "needs to be Redd Foxxed"...

pedro
08-19-2009, 04:44 PM
Personally, Slugging is the last thing I care about from a leadoff hitter. He will get on base, steal bases, and play gold glove defense.

Hard to draw walks in the majors without any power and a low BA. We'll see. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

WVRedsFan
08-19-2009, 04:45 PM
I thought that read "needs to be Redd Foxxed"...

I guess this is the big one and he's coming to meet us?

;)

edabbs44
08-19-2009, 04:45 PM
Personally, Slugging is the last thing I care about from a leadoff hitter. He will get on base, steal bases, and play gold glove defense.

He is getting on base in the minors...there's a difference, especially when they realize that the guy has trouble making contact and driving the ball.

REDSEER
08-19-2009, 04:48 PM
As expected, WT to the 15-day DL according to Mark Sheldon:

The Reds placed center fielder Willy Taveras on the 15-day disabled list Wednesday because of a strained left quadriceps muscle. Outfielder Drew Stubbs was called up from Triple-A Louisville to make his big league debut. Stubbs, 24, was the Reds' first round Draft pick in 2006. He is batting leadoff tonight vs. the Giants.

Taveras was hurt in the seventh inning of Tuesday's 8-5 loss to the Giants. He grounded a ball to the pitcher but appeared to hurt himself as he ran out of the batters' box.


It's been a disappointing season all around for Taveras, was signed as a free agent to a two-year, $6.25 million contract in the off-season to be the Reds leadoff hitter. He is batting .238 with one homer, 15 RBIs, 25 steals and a .273 on-base percentage that is the lowest of any Major League player this season with at least 400 plate appearances. He has 18 walks, but only four of them came since May 24.


Stubbs was batting .268 with three homers, 39 RBIs, 46 stolen bases and a .353 on-base percentage for Louisville.

Caveat Emperor
08-19-2009, 04:48 PM
He is getting on base in the minors...there's a difference, especially when they realize that the guy has trouble making contact and driving the ball.

I kept waiting for Stubbs lack of SLG to catch up with him in the minors, and it never seems to.

Caveat Emperor
08-19-2009, 04:49 PM
As expected, WT to the 15-day DL according to Mark Sheldon:

Doesn't the team still have to clear a spot on the 40-man for Stubbs? Just putting WT on the 15-day won't solve that.

REDSEER
08-19-2009, 04:51 PM
I just counted the 40-man roster before Stubbs and there were 40 players including Wilkin Castillo, who is on the 60-day DL...so as long as I can count a 40-man spot doesn't need cleared.

Spring~Fields
08-19-2009, 04:53 PM
Remember, dude, that shortstops also bat 2nd, even those with a lifetime .281 on-base percentage.

Yeah but a rookie CF leading off on his first night ? No pressure there huh ;)

flyer85
08-19-2009, 04:54 PM
hard to get excited about a guy OPSing .713 in AAA. ... not if you a Reds fan. :D


At least he can catch the ball I guess.
that's what some thought about Willy

flyer85
08-19-2009, 04:56 PM
Yeah but a rookie CF leading off on his first night ? No pressure there huh ;)
Dusty is trying to ruin him :p:

Spring~Fields
08-19-2009, 04:57 PM
Dusty is trying to ruin him :p:

Nah, he is channeling Hank, Hank Williams Jr. :p:

Puffy
08-19-2009, 04:58 PM
Hard to draw walks in the majors without any power and a low BA. We'll see. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

I hope you are wrong too. I think you are 100% right, but I'm hoping you're wrong.

camisadelgolf
08-19-2009, 04:59 PM
Doesn't the team still have to clear a spot on the 40-man for Stubbs? Just putting WT on the 15-day won't solve that.
It shouldn't be an issue. The Reds would put Danny Richar or Bill Bray on the 60-day DL.

BCubb2003
08-19-2009, 05:00 PM
Meanwhile, the Cardinals are getting Smoltz.

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:01 PM
I hope you are wrong too. I think you are 100% right, but I'm hoping you're wrong.it's the reason why Willy T has drawn four walks over the last 3 months. Most major league pitchers can throw the ball over the plate when they have to and have no fear of the hitter. A lot of minor league pitchers struggle with that. Taveras drew a decent amount of walks in the minors.

camisadelgolf
08-19-2009, 05:01 PM
If Drew Stubbs bats leadoff his entire time with the Reds, then I don't really care much about what his SLG will be as long as his defense is as advertised while putting up a good OBP.

Benihana
08-19-2009, 05:01 PM
It shouldn't be an issue. The Reds would put Danny Richar or Bill Bray on the 60-day DL.

I'm surprised Bray isn't on the 600-day DL.

lollipopcurve
08-19-2009, 05:01 PM
Sweet.

I don't expect great things from Stubbs. But it's absolutely the right thing to let him learn the ropes now so that he's not starting from scratch next April. Just want to see flashes from him now and then.

I did see him play in Syracuse a few weeks back, and the one thing I can say with some certainty about him is that he's a real good base stealer -- surprisingly quick break for a big guy, takes an aggressive lead, and we all know he's fast. ≈

Remember all the patience accorded Bruce, and EdE (the hitter). I'd say give the same to Stubbs. He's got learning to do, and there are parts of his game that can be very valuable. A last word of caution: Stubbs does not come off as a rah-rah, high energy guy. He's more JD Drew than Paul O'Neill. Smart, well-spoken kid, but his body language does not scream obscenities. Knowing the history of leadoff hitters in Cincinnati, this may be held against him. I hope they let him be who is and just play baseball.

Looking forward to seeing him in a Reds uni. #7?

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:03 PM
If Drew Stubbs bats leadoff his entire time with the Reds, then I don't really care much about what his SLG will be as long as his defense is as advertised while putting up a good OBP.with a low SLG% it will be hard to keep up the OBP by drawing walks.

The reason most major league hitters draw walks is not the pitchers can't throw the ball over the plate ... it is that they don't want to throw the ball over the plate.

LawFive
08-19-2009, 05:03 PM
Looking forward to see him in a Reds uni. #7?

# 6 according to the Enquirer. Here's hoping he doesn't end up like the last guy to draw that jersey.

Benihana
08-19-2009, 05:03 PM
Maybe they want Frazier to get through the minor league season at 2B before calling him up?

They could still move Phillips to SS now though and play Janish/Sutton at 2B. Wouldn't mind seeing Valaika get a shot at 2B after the Louisville season ends (if Frazier doesn't). Chris has been swinging the bat well recently.

Benihana
08-19-2009, 05:03 PM
# 6 according to the Enquirer. Here's hoping he doesn't end up like the last guy to draw that jersey.

Hmm. I wonder why not 7?

Puffy
08-19-2009, 05:05 PM
If Drew Stubbs bats leadoff his entire time with the Reds, then I don't really care much about what his SLG will be as long as his defense is as advertised while putting up a good OBP.

Slugging might not matter do you but the problem is its real hard to put up a better than average OBP (especially for a leadoff hitter) when your batting average hovers around .230 and pitchers have no reason to fear you. We still don't know if that decent OBP will translate to the major leagues.

NJReds
08-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Meanwhile, the Cardinals are getting Smoltz.

He was serving up batting practice with the Red Sox. Maybe he'll be magically restored to his previous glory by Dave Duncan, but he looked done just a couple weeks ago.

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Maybe they want Frazier to get through the minor league season at 2B before calling him up? or maybe that isn't the plan. :eek:

Or maybe there isn't a plan. :dunno:

Spring~Fields
08-19-2009, 05:05 PM
Sweet.

I don't expect great things from Stubbs. But it's absolutely the right thing to let him learn the ropes now so that he's not starting from scratch next April. Just want to see flashes from him now and then.

I did see him play in Syracuse a few weeks back, and the one thing I can say with some certainty about him is that he's a real good base stealer -- surprisingly quick break for a big guy, takes an aggressive lead, and we all know he's fast. ≈

Remember all the patience accorded Bruce, and EdE (the hitter). I'd say give the same to Stubbs. He's got learning to do, and there are parts of his game that can be very valuable. A last word of caution: Stubbs does not come off as a rah-rah, high energy guy. He's more JD Drew than Paul O'Neill. Smart, well-spoken kid, but his body language does not scream obscenities. Knowing the history of leadoff hitters in Cincinnati, this may be held against him. I hope they let him be who is and just play baseball.

Looking forward to seeing him in a Reds uni. #7?

Really nice and informative post.

REDSEER
08-19-2009, 05:06 PM
Janish currently wears #7, right? Wonder what number he'll be wearing tonight...

edit: already answered, #6

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:06 PM
He was serving up batting practice with the Red Sox. Maybe he'll be magically restored to his previous glory by Dave Duncan, but he looked done just a couple weeks ago.his stuff was still good, he was struggling with location. When I saw he was released my first thought was that he would be a nice gamble for the Cards.

camisadelgolf
08-19-2009, 05:08 PM
Looking forward to seeing him in a Reds uni. #7?
My guess is 25 since Janish already has 7.

edit:
Oops. He's already been given #6.

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:09 PM
We still don't know if that decent OBP will translate to the major leagues.
it didn't for Willy, who had a .385 .382 and .401 OBP his last three seasons in the minors. In AA at age 22 Willy put up a 788 OPS.

While Stubbs has shown more power than a guy like Willy T his large drop in SLG(down to 360) this year in AAA is very troubling.

NJReds
08-19-2009, 05:10 PM
his stuff was still good, he was struggling with location. When I saw he was released my first thought was that he would be a nice gamble for the Cards.

He couldn't get lefties out. They're hitting over .400 against him with 6 HR in 17 innings. Granted, his last start was against the Yankees and there are some solid lefty bats in that lineup.

Maybe if they stick him in the pen, he can be useful. But unless there's a drastic turnaround, or he gets to pitch against the Reds lineup every other start, I don't expect much from him as a starter.

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:12 PM
He couldn't get lefties out. They're hitting over .400 against him with 6 HR in 17 innings. Granted, his last start was against the Yankees and there are some solid lefty bats in that lineup.

Maybe if they stick him in the pen, he can be useful. But unless there's a drastic turnaround, or he gets to pitch against the Reds lineup every other start, I don't expect much from him as a starter.he may be finished but he may simply need more time to work out his location issues. The Cards can afford that(especially with the back of their rotation), the Red Sox couldn't.

jmcclain19
08-19-2009, 05:12 PM
I've made a truckload of anti-Stubbs comments over the years, about the lack of wisdom of the Reds passing on Lincecum, but that ends today.

Stubbs is here, he's a Red and Cincy absolutely needs him to pan out.

Let's hope he's everything they thought Patterson and Taveras would be the last two seasons. He can't possibly be any worse.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 05:12 PM
with a low SLG% it will be hard to keep up the OBP by drawing walks.

The reason most major league hitters draw walks is not the pitchers can't throw the ball over the plate ... it is that they don't want to throw the ball over the plate.This has nothing to do with defending Stubbs, but SLG is not necessarily all there is to OBP, and patience has merit as well and can lead to a respectable OBP. There are enough nibblers around MLB that one can keep up the OBP apart from the fear factor. I hear what you are saying and the experience with WT has it fresh in our mind, but it isn't all slugging that drives OBP.

KronoRed
08-19-2009, 05:14 PM
I don't think Stubbs will be more then a 4th of in the future but I'm so excited to see him playing instead the auto out. :D

camisadelgolf
08-19-2009, 05:14 PM
I'm going to the game tonight just to see Stubbs' debut. Who's going with me?

klw
08-19-2009, 05:16 PM
Doesn't Stubbs usually start fast when promoted to a new level?

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:19 PM
I hear what you are saying and the experience with WT has it fresh in our mind, but it isn't all slugging that drives OBP.if you look at the stats there are a few guys that can keep up OBP by drawing walks without much power (Johnson and Figgins are the only two this year).

What they have in common is a BB/K that borders on 1.0 (they don't K a lot) Stubbs has a low BB/K ratio (less than 0.5, he Ks a lot). He may be able to keep up the BBs without the power but he will definitely be swimming against the current.

osuceltic
08-19-2009, 05:25 PM
This has nothing to do with defending Stubbs, but SLG is not necessarily all there is to OBP, and patience has merit as well and can lead to a respectable OBP. There are enough nibblers around MLB that one can keep up the OBP apart from the fear factor. I hear what you are saying and the experience with WT has it fresh in our mind, but it isn't all slugging that drives OBP.

Agreed.

Having said that, I'm skeptical of Stubbs. He just doesn't seem to be a very good hitter. He has trouble making solid contact. Hell, he has trouble making any kind of contact. Even the rare exceptions who maintain a high OBP with a low SLG -- a guy like Brett Butler -- usually were good contact hitters who squared the ball consistently and used their speed to reach base. Stubbs just doesn't hit the ball enough.

The thing that gives me hope is I get the sense that the guy is an incredible athlete. Those types tend to adjust to the level of competition and find ways to get the job done. Their natural ability is better than a lot of guys, and it keeps them afloat. If that is true for Stubbs, and if he is as good defensively as advertised, maybe it will work.

fearofpopvol1
08-19-2009, 05:26 PM
a little early to promote stubbs in my opinion...but maybe not that early. it's time to see what they have in him in a lost season.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 05:29 PM
Agreed.

Having said that, I'm skeptical of Stubbs. He just doesn't seem to be a very good hitter. He has trouble making solid contact. Hell, he has trouble making any kind of contact. Even the rare exceptions who maintain a high OBP with a low SLG -- a guy like Brett Butler -- usually were good contact hitters who squared the ball consistently and used their speed to reach base. Stubbs just doesn't hit the ball enough.

The thing that gives me hope is I get the sense that the guy is an incredible athlete. Those types tend to adjust to the level of competition and find ways to get the job done. Their natural ability is better than a lot of guys, and it keeps them afloat. If that is true for Stubbs, and if he is as good defensively as advertised, maybe it will work.I keep on thinking of the RH version of Scott Podsednik offensively, haven't seen him play D yet, but Jim Edmonds according to the reports :thumbup:

flyer85
08-19-2009, 05:29 PM
The thing that gives me hope is I get the sense that the guy is an incredible athlete. Those types tend to adjust to the level of competition and find ways to get the job done. Their natural ability is better than a lot of guys, and it keeps them afloat. If that is true for Stubbs, and if he is as good defensively as advertised, maybe it will work.
we really don't know how Stubbs will turn out but he does have some serious red flags in his minor league career.

I think the odds are better to develop SLG at the expense of OBP than seeing him keep up his OBP(~350) with sub 400 SLG. However if he does develop enough power for a .420+ SLG he may struggle to keep his OBP over .330 ... which translates to not being a good leadoff hitter.

Kc61
08-19-2009, 05:33 PM
Stubbs should hit seventh.

Of course, other than Votto, the whole lineup should be hitting seventh.

Or eighth.

bucksfan2
08-19-2009, 05:34 PM
I don't think raw power is an issue for Stubbs. I have heard reports of him blasting HR's into power hitter territory. The issue seems to be whether or not he consistently develops power.

I think the difference between a guy like WT and Stubbs is that even if a pitcher grooves a pitch to WT he can barely drive it out of the park. Stubbs on the other hand can put it in the bleacher seats.

osuceltic
08-19-2009, 05:37 PM
By the way ... I'm happy to see Stubbs simply because Taveras has been so much worse than I ever imagined he could be. And this is after a pretty solid start to the season. I was in the "give him a chance" crowd. I think that chance expired two months ago.

Here's my question, though: What does this do to Stubbs's arbitration clock? Anything? Was there any value to holding off until the rosters expand?

Always Red
08-19-2009, 05:37 PM
How weird is it that after all the excitement yesterday over a rumor that Stubbs and Frazier were coming up, that today Stubbs really, actually is starting in CF?

Coincidence?

Not sure what to expect from Stubbs. Saw him play one game in Sarasota last summer.

I think if he could turn into a Cesar Geronimo type of player (at the least), that would be nice.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 05:38 PM
I don't think raw power is an issue for Stubbs. I have heard reports of him blasting HR's into power hitter territory. The issue seems to be whether or not he consistently develops power.

I think the difference between a guy like WT and Stubbs is that even if a pitcher grooves a pitch to WT he can barely drive it out of the park. Stubbs on the other hand can put it in the bleacher seats.WT can barely get it past the pitcher's mound. I've not seen so many weak popups to infielders in all my years of following the game.

guttle11
08-19-2009, 05:38 PM
Stubbs should hit seventh.

Of course, other than Votto, the whole lineup should be hitting seventh.

Or eighth.

CF leads off, dude.

osuceltic
08-19-2009, 05:39 PM
One more ... I think the optimistic projection for Stubbs is that he manages to put up Dickerson numbers offensively with legitimate center field defense (something Dickerson, while better than WT, doesn't provide) and better speed on the basepaths. If that's the case, he's a really valuable player. But like I said -- that's the optimistic projection.

bucksfan2
08-19-2009, 05:40 PM
WT can barely get it past the pitcher's mound. I've not seen so many weak popups to infielders in all my years of following the game.

I know but I did see him hit a ball off the top of the wall in Dodger stadium. I guess a blind chipmunk finds a nut every once in a while.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 05:42 PM
I know but I did see him hit a ball off the top of the wall in Dodger stadium. I guess a blind chipmunk finds a nut every once in a while.Angels in the outfield is my guess.

reds44
08-19-2009, 05:43 PM
Hard to draw walks in the majors without any power and a low BA. We'll see. I certainly hope I'm wrong.
Chris Dickerson says "hai"

M2
08-19-2009, 05:49 PM
Louisville should be hacked off. They've got playoff games coming up and no way are the Reds burning an option so that Stubbs can play in those games.

Frankly, I don't see what Stubbs adds with Dickerson already in tow.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 05:50 PM
Louisville should be hacked off. They've got playoff games coming up and no way are the Reds burning an option so that Stubbs can play in those games.

Frankly, I don't see what Stubbs adds with Dickerson already in tow.If Stubbs debuts like Dickerson, we might win more than 3 games the rest of the year.

Chip R
08-19-2009, 05:53 PM
If Stubbs debuts like Dickerson, we might win more than 3 games the rest of the year.


Hooray!

M2
08-19-2009, 05:53 PM
If Stubbs debuts like Dickerson, we might win more than 3 games the rest of the year.

Lose 'em all. Get that draft pick.

Reds4Life
08-19-2009, 05:54 PM
Lose 'em all. Get that draft pick.

Yep. At this point, why not?

Cyclone792
08-19-2009, 05:55 PM
Frankly, I don't see what Stubbs adds with Dickerson already in tow.

They appear to be very similar players to me too. If the Reds insist on keeping Stubbs rather than trading him, I'd almost rather see a Dickerson/Stubbs platoon in center field as that might be the best way to get optimal production out of both guys as well as CF as a whole.

Of course, I could see the Reds being stubborn on that front because it's just the type of thing the Reds would be stubborn about.

Chip R
08-19-2009, 05:55 PM
Yep. At this point, why not?


Integrity, dude.

traderumor
08-19-2009, 05:58 PM
Integrity, dude.

Integrity went out with a cheating manager and a dog pooping on our astroturf. Play The Louisville, Dusty.

Tom Servo
08-19-2009, 06:01 PM
Angels in the outfield is my guess.
RIP Mel Clark

Joseph
08-19-2009, 06:03 PM
Hmm. I wonder why not 7?

Paul Janish says hello.

Highlifeman21
08-19-2009, 06:13 PM
You act as if there was a false alarm at some point. You know, I thought I saw something on here yesterday, but a search revealed nothing, almost as if it was deleted or something :cool:

I wondered the same thing myself...

OnBaseMachine
08-19-2009, 06:14 PM
--Baker said Drew Stubbs will play regularly.

"I'll spot him against tough guys, see how his stroke is, try to give him the best chance to succeed," Baker said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a0f347afb-0c3f-4d09-ba7f-2e952fe3fc3d&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

edabbs44
08-19-2009, 06:28 PM
They appear to be very similar players to me too. If the Reds insist on keeping Stubbs rather than trading him, I'd almost rather see a Dickerson/Stubbs platoon in center field as that might be the best way to get optimal production out of both guys as well as CF as a whole.

Of course, I could see the Reds being stubborn on that front because it's just the type of thing the Reds would be stubborn about.

Stubbs is slightly worse vs LHPs in his minor league career, .739 OPS vs .768.

Spring~Fields
08-19-2009, 06:34 PM
Stubbs should hit seventh.

Of course, other than Votto, the whole lineup should be hitting seventh.

Or eighth.

:thumbup:

:clap::clap::clap:

Highlifeman21
08-19-2009, 06:38 PM
--Baker said Drew Stubbs will play regularly.

"I'll spot him against tough guys, see how his stroke is, try to give him the best chance to succeed," Baker said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a0f347afb-0c3f-4d09-ba7f-2e952fe3fc3d&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

The Dusty's proven historically that he doesn't know how to put guys in the best chance/situation to succeed.

TRF
08-19-2009, 06:47 PM
My life in the dumper, I decide to take a little time away from everything and this happens.

My prediction? The Reds won't see a significant drop in production from the CF position.

IslandRed
08-19-2009, 06:51 PM
Here's my question, though: What does this do to Stubbs's arbitration clock? Anything? Was there any value to holding off until the rosters expand?

It doesn't do anything much. For purposes of arbitration and free agency, a year of service time means 172 days on the active roster or major-league DL, so the last six weeks of 2009 won't get him very far towards either. And nothing changes on September 1 except for how many players can be on the active roster. If they're on the active roster, they're accruing service time.

SMcGavin
08-19-2009, 07:09 PM
Frankly, I don't see what Stubbs adds with Dickerson already in tow.

I'm with you. Dickerson's MLB numbers are better than Stubbs' AAA numbers too. I'm a big fan of CF defense but I'm not at all confident Stubbs can even post a .700 OPS at this level. It's a decent time to find out though, I hope he proves me wrong.

Will M
08-19-2009, 07:14 PM
They appear to be very similar players to me too. If the Reds insist on keeping Stubbs rather than trading him, I'd almost rather see a Dickerson/Stubbs platoon in center field as that might be the best way to get optimal production out of both guys as well as CF as a whole.



with all the problems the Reds have to fix hopefully Dickerson/Stubbs can hold down CF for the next few years. certainly defensively they can. if a platoon or pseudo platoon of these two guys can OPS+ 100 I would be happy

WVRedsFan
08-19-2009, 07:16 PM
Excuse me for not getting excited about Stubbs coming up. It appears he hasn't really learned to hit AAA pitching so we can expect Taveras-like numbers from him and that's a disservice to the kid more than anything. I'm sure his defense will be better, but why ot play Dickerson in center and let the two guys (Gomes and Nix) play he corners and leave it at that for now?

The Reds need real MLB outfielders and are kidding themselves to think that bringing up a kid not ready is going to do anything but frustrate the kid.

Will M
08-19-2009, 07:19 PM
Sometime in early June I turned on the game to see Taveras batting leadoff and Gonzo hitting 2nd. I said 'this is beyond stupid. why even watch?'. starting at that point i didn't watch a single game with either Taveras or Gonzo hitting 1rst or 2nd. so i have missed about 75% of the games in the last 2 months. now Gonzo is gone. i really really really hope Stubbs plays well so i never have to see Taveras again. i will be tuning in tonight and the next few weeks regularly.

Bumstead
08-19-2009, 07:21 PM
Wouldn't make more sense to play Stubbs everyday in CF, Dickerson in LF (platoon him with Gomes if you feel the need), and Balentien in RF (at least until Bruce comes back) and find out what you have instead of platooning Stubbs and Dickerson in CF and playing the rest of the fodder everday? Fodder being Nix/Gomes/Taveras (when he's 'healthy' again)...It seems so obvious. How about letting Stubbs play before we downgrade the guy that is replacing a guy who just OPS'ed under .500 for three months and played everyday?? Just a thought.

Bum

Will M
08-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Wouldn't make more sense to play Stubbs everyday in CF, Dickerson in LF (platoon him with Gomes if you feel the need), and Balentien in RF (at least until Bruce comes back) and find out what you have instead of platooning Stubbs and Dickerson in CF and playing the rest of the fodder everday? Fodder being Nix/Gomes/Taveras (when he's 'healthy' again)...It seems so obvious. How about letting Stubbs play before we downgrade the guy that is replacing a guy who just OPS'ed under .500 for three months and played everyday?? Just a thought.

Bum

agree. i would play Stubbs every day in 2009 BUT i would expect him to platoon in CF in 2010

11larkin11
08-19-2009, 07:37 PM
Dickerson's first season in Louisville he batted .260 with a .360 OBP (104 games). I know Stubbs had some time there last year, but people tend to forget that kids can improve...

Kc61
08-19-2009, 07:44 PM
Excuse me for not getting excited about Stubbs coming up. It appears he hasn't really learned to hit AAA pitching so we can expect Taveras-like numbers from him and that's a disservice to the kid more than anything. I'm sure his defense will be better, but why ot play Dickerson in center and let the two guys (Gomes and Nix) play he corners and leave it at that for now?

The Reds need real MLB outfielders and are kidding themselves to think that bringing up a kid not ready is going to do anything but frustrate the kid.

This is RedsZone. All kids are great.

I see no harm in this. Stubbs hasn't done that great at AAA, but it's about time for him to get a trial run. At this point in the season, they aren't adding any real guys.

It will make things a little more interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing him play the outfield.

Just looking at his numbers, the guy seems to have a contact problem. He's hit 3 homers this year and still has fanned 25 percent of his official at bats. That's a high K rate for a singles and doubles hitter.

edabbs44
08-19-2009, 07:59 PM
Dickerson's first season in Louisville he batted .260 with a .360 OBP (104 games). I know Stubbs had some time there last year, but people tend to forget that kids can improve...

So you are using Dickerson as evidence that Stubbs can succeed at the major league level? That's odd.

GAC
08-19-2009, 08:19 PM
Stubbs will struggle with the bat, though he should get on base at a better clip than Taveras and his defense is much better too.

That's all that matters. ;)

KoryMac5
08-19-2009, 08:25 PM
Kid will be 25 in October time for the Reds to see what they have in him. After seeing him play a few times in person he definitely will be an improvement over Willy T.

LawFive
08-19-2009, 08:28 PM
My prediction? The Reds won't see a significant drop in production from the CF position.

Going all the way out on the limb, eh? :)

mbgrayson
08-19-2009, 08:55 PM
Excuse me for not getting excited about Stubbs coming up. It appears he hasn't really learned to hit AAA pitching so we can expect Taveras-like numbers from him and that's a disservice to the kid more than anything. I'm sure his defense will be better, but why ot play Dickerson in center and let the two guys (Gomes and Nix) play he corners and leave it at that for now?

The thing about Drew Stubbs that I think will be better is the plate discipline. He has a .353 OBP, although his batting average this year is only .268. If he can get on base at that rate, he will be an asset. He has 51 BBs this year, compared to Taveras 18.

I see it as better defense, better on base skills, solid stolen base skills, and the hope that the power might develop someday. Stubbs is only 24 years old.

Rojo
08-19-2009, 09:05 PM
Just looking at his numbers, the guy seems to have a contact problem. He's hit 3 homers this year and still has fanned 25 percent of his official at bats. That's a high K rate for a singles and doubles hitter.

One of those prototypical high strikeout, low power hitters, just like ah.....help me out here.

Will M
08-19-2009, 09:33 PM
This is RedsZone. All kids are great.



its not that all kids are great. for me its that Taveras obviously is abyssmal. same for several others players this year and last. not just bad but might improve, but abyssmal and no chance to improve. so Stubbs is a welcome sight. lets see what he can do now rather than waiting until next April.

Strikes Out Looking
08-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Any chance Dr. Kremcheck can operate on Willie so we never see him play again?

LoganBuck
08-20-2009, 12:25 AM
I have seen a couple people on this thread whacking him on the slugging thing. He hasn't shown the results that his power should produce. The guy has power, but it doesn't show up in games. I wonder how his game will play at the GABP. It has been lamented on the minor league forum that he has warning track power. We shall see.

This is a great day. Hopefully Kremchek can put Taveras on a strengthening program, those always turn out great.

Ron Madden
08-20-2009, 06:19 AM
I wish Drew Stubbs the best of luck and will be rooting for him.

I still say Chris Dickerson is the best CFer on the roster.

lollipopcurve
08-20-2009, 10:34 AM
This is RedsZone. All kids are great.

Nope. Some kids are bad and even when they do well they are still bad.