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Benihana
08-20-2009, 03:29 PM
and I agree. While I think Gomes can continue to produce well, I don't care to pay $2MM to a 4th OF (which is what he's likely to get in arbitration.) If someone offers something of value for him, adios and thanks for the memories!

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:e57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost:0b11dde2-9952-4a55-8ade-dae3285fb8c7&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

I'd package him with Arroyo for JJ Hardy. He could fill in for them in RF at least until Hart comes back.

Falls City Beer
08-20-2009, 03:30 PM
Hey who doesn't need more Elizardo Ramirezes cluttering up their 40-man?

Benihana
08-20-2009, 03:32 PM
Hey who doesn't need more Elizardo Ramirezes cluttering up their 40-man?

Huh?

Falls City Beer
08-20-2009, 03:33 PM
Huh?

Gomes would net some AA trash from a contending team looking to pull off a heist on some cheap loser.

I'll take Gomes at $2 million. This organization is absolutely talent-dry.

RedsManRick
08-20-2009, 03:34 PM
Given that the Reds most likely won't have the cash to bring in an impact LF (given that the injury issues in the rotation limit our trade possibilities), I'd be happy to give him $2M to be half of a LF platoon next season -- perhaps with Danny Dorn. Sure, he's not this good. But the guy can legitimately mash against lefties. That would also serve as a cost effective bridge to the eventual Votto to LF possibility.

Benihana
08-20-2009, 03:37 PM
Gomes would net some AA trash from a contending team looking to pull off a heist on some cheap loser.

I'll take Gomes at $2 million. This organization is absolutely talent-dry.

If we were contending, then it makes sense to have a guy like Gomes as the 4th OF- even for $2MM. Since we won't be next year (and I think you agree), I'd rather spend that $2MM on amateur talent acquisition, and plug a guy like Dorn or Heisey (or Balentien if we go out and get a "real" LF) in as the 4th OF.

But the Reds will likely give Gomes JHJ money at least, and sit befuddled while a great bench player gets 140 starts in the OF.

Will M
08-20-2009, 03:38 PM
Given that the REds most likely won't have the cash to bring in an impact LF, I'd be happy to give him $2M to be half of a LF platoon next season -- perhaps with Danny Dorn. Sure, he's not this good. But the guy can legitimately mash against lefties. That would also serve as a cost effective bridge to the eventual Votto to LF possibility.

100% agree.

whats Gomes gonna get us in trade? a prospect. whoopee! we need talent on the 25 man roster. Gomes qualifies. and he is cheap at $2M a year, even if he is the 4th outfielder.

i would go with Gomes & a LH partner (?Dorn) for LF in 2010. the Reds have a lot of holes and if we can fill LF cheap and internally so much the better

membengal
08-20-2009, 03:39 PM
Fay seems unfettered of late, is he confusing Hal's being laid off with his being laid off?

HokieRed
08-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Guy's got an OPS over .900, hits a jack about every 12 times to the plate (last time I looked). It would make sense to trade him on a team that has no offense.

Falls City Beer
08-20-2009, 03:41 PM
If we were contending, then it makes sense to have a guy like Gomes as the 4th OF- even for $2MM. Since we won't be next year (and I think you agree), I'd rather spend that $2MM on amateur talent acquisition, and plug a guy like Dorn or Heisey (or Balentien if we go out and get a "real" LF) in as the 4th OF.

But the Reds will likely give Gomes JHJ money at least, and sit befuddled while a great bench player gets 140 starts in the OF.

The Reds have crap in their minors. Not a single starter among them. Gomes makes all kinds of sense.

traderumor
08-20-2009, 03:41 PM
Agree with the idea that Gomes has more value at $2M for the Reds than his current trade value. I hate dealing at least average major leaguers for minor league fodder. We have plenty of the latter, only a few of the former currently.

membengal
08-20-2009, 03:41 PM
Guy's got an OPS over .900, hits a jack about every 12 times to the plate (last time I looked). It would make sense to trade him on a team that has no offense.

Say...I root for a team like that! Hey, wait...

RichRed
08-20-2009, 03:44 PM
Fay seems unfettered of late, is he confusing Hal's being laid off with his being laid off?

It's weird, because Fay has good perfect normally.

Falls City Beer
08-20-2009, 03:49 PM
Agree with the idea that Gomes has more value at $2M for the Reds than his current trade value. I hate dealing at least average major leaguers for minor league fodder. We have plenty of the latter, only a few of the former currently.

Exactly. Gomes would be blocking exactly no one on the depth chart.

redsmetz
08-20-2009, 03:50 PM
Fay seems unfettered of late, is he confusing Hal's being laid off with his being laid off?

As the competition between papers lessens, Fay's positioning himself to be "BMOC" - he's been doing that for about a year or so.

membengal
08-20-2009, 03:56 PM
As the competition between papers lessens, Fay's positioning himself to be "BMOC" - he's been doing that for about a year or so.

At this point, he's "only man on campus", pretty much, so, that's one for him...

corkedbat
08-20-2009, 04:35 PM
Let's just go with platoon's right across the OF board:

LF Dorn/Gomes
CF Dickerson/Stubbs (or) Heisey
RF Bruce/Ballentine

Falls City Beer
08-20-2009, 04:36 PM
Let's just go with platoon's right across the OF board:

LF Dorn/Gomes
CF Dickerson/Stubbs (or) Heisey
RF Bruce/Ballentine

I like it.

blumj
08-20-2009, 04:41 PM
Let's just go with platoon's right across the OF board:

LF Dorn/Gomes
CF Dickerson/Stubbs (or) Heisey
RF Bruce/Ballentine
Doesn't leave much space on the roster for infielders and pitchers.

edabbs44
08-20-2009, 04:43 PM
Given that the Reds most likely won't have the cash to bring in an impact LF (given that the injury issues in the rotation limit our trade possibilities), I'd be happy to give him $2M to be half of a LF platoon next season -- perhaps with Danny Dorn. Sure, he's not this good. But the guy can legitimately mash against lefties. That would also serve as a cost effective bridge to the eventual Votto to LF possibility.

I would take Gomes vs RHPs over Dorn next year. You would need someone better to push him into a platoon.

lollipopcurve
08-20-2009, 04:46 PM
Doesn't leave much space on the roster for infielders and pitchers.

That's because there's no PLAN!

Benihana
08-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Doesn't leave much space on the roster for infielders and pitchers.

The Reds actually have a plethora of versatile infielders capable of playing almost any position.

Between Sutton, Rosales, and Valaika- the Reds probably only need one of those guys along with Janish to backup the infield. Sure it's a little thin, but when you throw in a backup catcher, you still have room for 11 pitchers. Plus you always have Owings available as a pinch-hitter.

If an infielder gets hurt, obviously you call up one of the others from AAA to replace them on the roster.

If they're comfortable going with 10 pitchers, they could carry another infielder (or catcher.)

corkedbat
08-20-2009, 04:51 PM
Doesn't leave much space on the roster for infielders and pitchers.

It's my fantasy league so I'll just expand the rosters to 30. :D

Yeah, I was thinking about how our division of righties and lefties would lend itself to it. I just throwing it out there, not really a serious suggestion.

You could do it.

6 OFs (Dorn could be your back up 1B)
7. Votto
8. Phillips
9. Rolen
10. (SS)
11. (Reserve IF)
12. Hanigan
13. (Reserve C)

but you'd be in deep doo if there was an IF injury. You could pull it off if you went with 11 pitchers, but I don't think the Reds can afford that.

Scrap Irony
08-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Doesn't leave much space on the roster for infielders and pitchers.

You'd need a corner IF back-up (like Rosales) and a middle IF back-up (like Janish) and a couple guys on the 40-man roster who could also play those spots, assuming injury (Valaika and Francisco, perhaps?).

Outfielders
Dickerson LH CF
Heisey/ Stubbs RH CF
Gomes RH LF
Dorn LH LF
Balentien RH RF
Bruce LH RF

Infielders
Rolen 3B
Votto 1B
Phillips SS
Frazier 2B

Catchers
Hanigan
FA

That would leave you with a back-up at each position and an 11-man staff, probably the following:

Cordero CL
Massett LH Set-up
Rhodes RH Set-up
Fisher 7th inning guy
Herrera LOOGY
Lincoln/ Viola/ Burton/ Ramirez/ Maloney Long reliever

Starters
Bailey
Owings
Harang
Cueto
Arroyo

Good bench, but Louisville would need to be stacked with enough help (and the Reds willing) to shuttle guys back and forth. It makes it easier that two starters and three relievers all would have options next year, too.

With good health, a re-emergence of Volquez around the end of July, and a couple steps forward from young guys, that team competes. (Unless St. Louis re-signs Holliday and DeRosa and finds another starting pitcher or Chicago goes nuts on the free agent market.)

Raisor
08-20-2009, 07:23 PM
Someone has to be around for next year's trade deadline when the Reds are closing in on non-playoff year 16.

savafan
08-20-2009, 07:45 PM
Scouts tell me things have been quiet on the Arroyo and Harang.

How the hell is this guy getting paid actual money for his writing? Who is his editor? This is driving me crazy!

Brutus
08-20-2009, 07:52 PM
That's because there's no PLAN!

"You had plans. Look where it got you. I just did what I do best-I took your plan and turned it on itself. Look what I have done to this city with a few drums of gas and a couple bullets. Nobody panics when the expected people got killed. Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plans are horrifying. If I tell the press that tomorrow a gangbanger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will get blown up, nobody panics. But when I say one little old mayor will die, everyone loses their minds!! Introduce a little anarchy, you upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos."

redsfandan
08-20-2009, 07:57 PM
If we were contending, then it makes sense to have a guy like Gomes as the 4th OF- even for $2MM. Since we won't be next year (and I think you agree), I'd rather spend that $2MM on amateur talent acquisition, and plug a guy like Dorn or Heisey (or Balentien if we go out and get a "real" LF) in as the 4th OF.

But the Reds will likely give Gomes JHJ money at least, and sit befuddled while a great bench player gets 140 starts in the OF.
I really liked it when the Reds picked up Gomes for peanuts. But he won't be making peanuts next year and they'll only carry so many outfielders next year. So do you keep Gomes around for another season to mix in with the young outfielders or do you keep the young outfielders around that actually might have a future with the Reds? I could live with either choice but I'd also be really curious if there is/was any interest in him. And like Benihana, I'd rather keep him around if we had a better shot to contend next season.

RedsManRick
08-20-2009, 10:11 PM
I really liked it when the Reds picked up Gomes for peanuts. But he won't be making peanuts next year and they'll only carry so many outfielders next year. So do you keep Gomes around for another season to mix in with the young outfielders or do you keep the young outfielders around that actually might have a future with the Reds? I could live with either choice but I'd also be really curious if there is/was any interest in him. And like Benihana, I'd rather keep him around if we had a better shot to contend next season.

The production you get from Gomes at $2M is a bargain. The Reds are going to spend some money in FA to buy production, why not keep the bargain you already have. He's at worst a tradeable asset.

If the issue is the roster spot, we've got a sub-replacement CF who we're going to have to pay no matter where he plays. Play him (or bench him) in Louisville and the roster spot isn't an issue.

ochre
08-20-2009, 10:20 PM
It's weird, because Fay has good perfect normally.
there he dose

savafan
08-20-2009, 10:49 PM
Fay says Reds should do nothing.

Fay says Reds should trade Gomes.

Fay says he may have good perfect normal schizophrenia.

Stormy
08-20-2009, 11:00 PM
The Reds have crap in their minors. Not a single starter among them. Gomes makes all kinds of sense.

I just want to get this straight. So, you're saying that throughout the entire Reds' farm system, a system which in some quarters has been garnering the most praise it's received in decades, there isn't a healthy impact starting offensive player anywhere to be found on the somewhat immediate horizon? If that's what you're really saying....


I agree. We need a 'legit' power bat in LF acquired from outside the organization, in my opinion. However, with or without that acquisition, Gomes should stay. And some of those platoon ideas (Dickerson/Stubbs) (Bruce/Balentien) etc... look capable of producing a lot more than any single stalwart has at RF, CF, LF recently.

Spring~Fields
08-20-2009, 11:00 PM
I think that Gomes saw all he wanted from the Reds this year being sent to the minors, then sitting and watching less productive players taking his playing time. Knowing that when he did get a few AB and PA here and there he was back on the bench. I think he and his agent will be looking for a place that can appreciate him and give him the chance to play with an eye on better contracts if he can produce. I can’t see him being to impressed with a team that carries so many outfielders to limit his opportunities/chances.

Jay Bruce still thinks he can hit major league pitching and that he is coming back in September, Dickerson thinks he can play, we all know that Tevaras is stellar and comes cheap, then there is Nix, Balentein and the newest marketing gimmick Stubbs along with Gomes, someone has to go. Is there any of them that can hit both right and left handed pitching? If any of the articles were right, I think that Gomes believes that he got a bad rap on the right handed pitching compared to his teammates. Of course McDonald is still at AAA waiting for his September callup. Perhaps Walt can wakeup in time and package Gomes with Tevaras and get another matching set of a Richar, Castillio, maybe even a Kip Wells.

Will M
08-20-2009, 11:46 PM
I think that Gomes saw all he wanted from the Reds this year being sent to the minors, then sitting and watching less productive players taking his playing time. Knowing that when he did get a few AB and PA here and there he was back on the bench. I think he and his agent will be looking for a place that can appreciate him and give him the chance to play with an eye on better contracts if he can produce. I canít see him being to impressed with a team that carries so many outfielders to limit his opportunities/chances.

Jay Bruce still thinks he can hit major league pitching and that he is coming back in September, Dickerson thinks he can play, we all know that Tevaras is stellar and comes cheap, then there is Nix, Balentein and the newest marketing gimmick Stubbs along with Gomes, someone has to go. Is there any of them that can hit both right and left handed pitching? If any of the articles were right, I think that Gomes believes that he got a bad rap on the right handed pitching compared to his teammates. Of course McDonald is still at AAA waiting for his September callup. Perhaps Walt can wakeup in time and package Gomes with Tevaras and get another matching set of a Richar, Castillio, maybe even a Kip Wells.

he and his agent have no choice...we control him for 2010

Spring~Fields
08-20-2009, 11:51 PM
he and his agent have no choice...we control him for 2010

Really I did not know that. He has a two year deal or is there an option on him? I missed the boat. Fill me in on the facts. So then some of the other fodder that is floating around pretending to be major league outfielders will be moving on.

Highlifeman21
08-20-2009, 11:52 PM
and I agree. While I think Gomes can continue to produce well, I don't care to pay $2MM to a 4th OF (which is what he's likely to get in arbitration.) If someone offers something of value for him, adios and thanks for the memories!

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:e57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost:0b11dde2-9952-4a55-8ade-dae3285fb8c7&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

I'd package him with Arroyo for JJ Hardy. He could fill in for them in RF at least until Hart comes back.

But we replaced Dunn with Gomes, so if we get rid of Gomes then who will we get to replace Gomes?

Will M
08-20-2009, 11:53 PM
Really I did not know that. He has a two year deal or is there an option on him? I missed the boat. Fill me in on the facts.

it is my understanding that because he has less than 6 years service time the Reds still control him. he will be arbitration eligible. same for Nix if we decide not to release him at the end of the year.

Spring~Fields
08-20-2009, 11:55 PM
it is my understanding that because he has less than 6 years service time the Reds still control him. he will be arbitration eligible. same for Nix if we decide not to release him at the end of the year.

Thanks, for bringing me up to speed. That is going to get interesting as they continue to unveil their plans with their actions.

Highlifeman21
08-20-2009, 11:57 PM
Let's just go with platoon's right across the OF board:

LF Dorn/Gomes
CF Dickerson/Stubbs (or) Heisey
RF Bruce/Ballentine

6 OF, 12 P, leaves 7 other guys for 5 spots...

Team Clark
08-21-2009, 12:40 AM
Gomes has done everything asked of him and more. He has produced enough, in my mind, to warrant a 2MM contract for next year to fill the same role.

Tornon
08-21-2009, 12:55 AM
6 OF, 12 P, leaves 7 other guys for 5 spots...

Are you saying we need to bring back the mustache to handle C/1B/3B duties like he does so well? Then you just need a MIF guy

Highlifeman21
08-21-2009, 01:01 AM
Are you saying we need to bring back the mustache to handle C/1B/3B duties like he does so well? Then you just need a MIF guy

We all know Chip's been campaigning to bring back tLLM.

I hear Chip's already been fundraising to pay off Nix to give tLLM his number back. That is if Nix is still a Red next year...

RedLegSuperStar
08-21-2009, 01:12 AM
I want to see Gomes on this team next year. The Reds wont net the talent that could match his.

redsfandan
08-21-2009, 02:28 AM
The production you get from Gomes at $2M is a bargain. The Reds are going to spend some money in FA to buy production, why not keep the bargain you already have. He's at worst a tradeable asset.
If the issue is the roster spot, we've got a sub-replacement CF who we're going to have to pay no matter where he plays. Play him (or bench him) in Louisville and the roster spot isn't an issue.
That's the key. Is he more valuable as a trading chip? Or is he more valuable in a platoon for the Reds next year?

it is my understanding that because he has less than 6 years service time the Reds still control him. he will be arbitration eligible. same for Nix if we decide not to release him at the end of the year.
I think Gomes isn't eligible to be a free agent until 2012 unless the team that has his rights releases him. Dunno about Nix.

I want to see Gomes on this team next year. The Reds wont net the talent that could match his.

LF Dorn/Gomes
CF Dickerson/Stubbs (or) Heisey
RF Bruce/Ballentine

... plus Nix.. and Taveras...

Nine outfielders. That's alot of outfielders. Too many to fit on the opening day Reds. So which five do you keep? And what about the big bat that everyone wants?

I like Gomes and I'd love it if he got some experience at 1st so we could see if he could be an option as a backup there. But if another team shows interest I'd at least listen to what they have to offer.

corkedbat
08-21-2009, 02:35 AM
That's the key. Is he more valuable as a trading chip? Or is he more valuable in a platoon for the Reds next year?

I think Gomes isn't eligible to be a free agent until 2012 unless the team that has his rights releases him. Dunno about Nix.


LF Dorn/Gomes
CF Dickerson/Stubbs (or) Heisey
RF Bruce/Ballentine

... plus Nix.. and Taveras...

Nine outfielders. That's alot of outfielders. Too many to fit on the opening day Reds. So which five do you keep? And what about the big bat that everyone wants?

I like Gomes and I'd love it if he got some experience at 1st so we could see if he could be an option as a backup there. But if another team shows interest I'd at least listen to what they have to offer.

10, if you count Francisco (although I am banishing WT from my universe). That becomes even more of a possibility if the Reds intend to do as stated and extend Rolen. I don't think he makes the club out of ST, but if he keeps showing power in AAA, I'd expect him to be up at some point next year (not couting a possible September call this year).

redsfandan
08-21-2009, 02:41 AM
I think everyone would like to banish WT from the Reds universe. lol

I just want to make clear, I'm NOT anti-Gomes. Not at all. But we'll have alot of outfield options next April. And another thing that can be held against Gomes, whether it's justified or not, is that the Reds payroll will be tight and Gomes and WT will probably be the only outfielders that won't be really cheap.

Spring~Fields
08-21-2009, 04:05 AM
Gomes has done everything asked of him and more. He has produced enough, in my mind, to warrant a 2MM contract for next year to fill the same role.

This seems to be true, yet, he still hasn't been able to gather consistent playing time for some reason.

HokieRed
08-21-2009, 09:33 AM
This seems to be true, yet, he still hasn't been able to gather consistent playing time for some reason.

Nor has he batted where it's pretty obvious he ought to bat, at least until he no longer merits it--and that's 4th. Another of Dusty's lineup construction idiosyncrasies.

nate
08-21-2009, 09:46 AM
Keeping Gomes is fine as long as they sign someone who relegates him to a production-maxmizing role.

nate
08-21-2009, 09:47 AM
Caveat to my above point: trade Gomes if the net result is an improvement for the Reds.

(duh)

bucksfan2
08-21-2009, 09:52 AM
Don't quite understand the rush to trade Gomes. The Reds picked him up on the cheap and he ended up playing pretty well this season. His defense isn't anything to write home about, but his bat has looked promising.

The way I look at it, Stubbs, Bruce, and Dickerson will be on the team in the outfield next season. Heisey will have a chance to make the team in the spring. Gomes should be in the mix as well. I wouldn't offer arbitration to Nix and would let him walk. Taveras is the wild card in the mix. I believed that when they signed WT it was to hold down the spot until Stubbs was ready. Not that Stubbs is ready it sounds like Dusty is, or was told, to play him every day. WT no longer has a spot on this team, especially because his base running has been awful this year.

IMO right now Gomes has more value to the Reds than anything he can bring back in a trade. Make him the 4th outfielder, give him a spot start, and let him be the power bat off the bench.

camisadelgolf
08-21-2009, 09:57 AM
Unless they reach a deal before the end of the season, the Reds would need to offer Gomes arbitration to keep him around for 2010, and even then, he has the option of refusing.

HokieRed
08-21-2009, 10:37 AM
Don't quite understand the rush to trade Gomes. The Reds picked him up on the cheap and he ended up playing pretty well this season. His defense isn't anything to write home about, but his bat has looked promising.

The way I look at it, Stubbs, Bruce, and Dickerson will be on the team in the outfield next season. Heisey will have a chance to make the team in the spring. Gomes should be in the mix as well. I wouldn't offer arbitration to Nix and would let him walk. Taveras is the wild card in the mix. I believed that when they signed WT it was to hold down the spot until Stubbs was ready. Not that Stubbs is ready it sounds like Dusty is, or was told, to play him every day. WT no longer has a spot on this team, especially because his base running has been awful this year.

IMO right now Gomes has more value to the Reds than anything he can bring back in a trade. Make him the 4th outfielder, give him a spot start, and let him be the power bat off the bench.

How, on this team, does a guy with an OPS over .900 and an HR about every 12 AB's not merit a starting job? Now maybe he can't sustain that and, if he can't, then he ought to be a 4th outfielder. But given our non-offense, I just don't see the case for an outfield of Dickerson, Stubbs, and Bruce.

redsfandan
08-21-2009, 01:17 PM
The way I look at it, Stubbs, Bruce, and Dickerson will be on the team in the outfield next season. Heisey will have a chance to make the team in the spring. Gomes should be in the mix as well. I wouldn't offer arbitration to Nix and would let him walk. Taveras is the wild card in the mix. I believed that when they signed WT it was to hold down the spot until Stubbs was ready. Not that Stubbs is ready it sounds like Dusty is, or was told, to play him every day. WT no longer has a spot on this team, especially because his base running has been awful this year.

IMO right now Gomes has more value to the Reds than anything he can bring back in a trade. Make him the 4th outfielder, give him a spot start, and let him be the power bat off the bench.
Ok, so that's Stubbs, Bruce, Dickerson, and Gomes in the 2010 outfield. Now, what about Balentien, Heisey, and Dorn?

Unless they reach a deal before the end of the season, the Reds would need to offer Gomes arbitration to keep him around for 2010, and even then, he has the option of refusing.
Good point, my mistake.

Falls City Beer
08-21-2009, 01:19 PM
I just don't see the case for an outfield of Dickerson, Stubbs, and Bruce.

That outfield would be worse than this current incarnation.

edabbs44
08-21-2009, 02:59 PM
Ok, so that's Stubbs, Bruce, Dickerson, and Gomes in the 2010 outfield. Now, what about Balentien, Heisey, and Dorn?

Heisey and Dorn? They aren't exactly beating down the door.

I'd be more worried if they were able to make the team.

bucksfan2
08-21-2009, 03:03 PM
Ok, so that's Stubbs, Bruce, Dickerson, and Gomes in the 2010 outfield. Now, what about Balentien, Heisey, and Dorn?

Make them earn a spot. I don't see any harm in offering Gomes arbitration. If he turns it down, fine, if he accepts it then the Reds get him at a good price. Balentien should the upper hand, and he should get more and more at bats as the season winds down. Heisey and Dorn are unproven minor leaguers. If the knock down the door in the spring then good, if not give them time.

Brutus
08-21-2009, 04:07 PM
I think everyone would like to banish WT from the Reds universe. lol

I just want to make clear, I'm NOT anti-Gomes. Not at all. But we'll have alot of outfield options next April. And another thing that can be held against Gomes, whether it's justified or not, is that the Reds payroll will be tight and Gomes and WT will probably be the only outfielders that won't be really cheap.

I shall use the powers of the continuum transfunctioner to banish Willy to Hoboken, NJ

Will M
08-21-2009, 05:11 PM
Unless they reach a deal before the end of the season, the Reds would need to offer Gomes arbitration to keep him around for 2010, and even then, he has the option of refusing.

are you sure about this? this is different that what was posted here a month or two ago (ie that we controlled him for 2010 and that he was arbitration eligible)

westofyou
08-21-2009, 05:18 PM
Offering Gomes arb would be a mistake, a big bad mistake.

3.133 service time prior to this year

What Players Are Eligible for Arbitration?
A player and club who cannot agree on a contract may agree to salary arbitration, provided that the player has enough service time in the majors. The following players are eligible for arbitration:

(1) Players with at least 3 but less than 6 years of service in Major League Baseball;

(2) The top 17 percent of players with at least 2 but less than 3 years of Major League service. These are known as “Super 2” players. To qualify as a Super 2, a player must have accumulated at least 86 days of service in the previous year. Historically, the cutoff point for Super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service, though the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days in years past.



Read more: http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_baseball_arbitration_works#ixzz0OqoluKO2

NJReds
08-21-2009, 05:29 PM
I shall use the powers of the continuum transfunctioner to banish Willy to Hoboken, NJ

I know the mayor of Hoboken, and I can tell you that Hoboken doesn't want him either.

Perth Amboy might take him. Otherwise may I suggest Connecticut.

edabbs44
08-21-2009, 05:37 PM
I know the mayor of Hoboken, and I can tell you that Hoboken doesn't want him either.

Perth Amboy might take him. Otherwise may I suggest Connecticut.

The mayor of Hobo has more problems than just Willy T

Brutus
08-21-2009, 06:26 PM
Offering Gomes arb would be a mistake, a big bad mistake.

3.133 service time prior to this year

What Players Are Eligible for Arbitration?
A player and club who cannot agree on a contract may agree to salary arbitration, provided that the player has enough service time in the majors. The following players are eligible for arbitration:

(1) Players with at least 3 but less than 6 years of service in Major League Baseball;

(2) The top 17 percent of players with at least 2 but less than 3 years of Major League service. These are known as “Super 2” players. To qualify as a Super 2, a player must have accumulated at least 86 days of service in the previous year. Historically, the cutoff point for Super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service, though the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days in years past.



Read more: http://baseball.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_baseball_arbitration_works#ixzz0OqoluKO2

Eh, not that bad.

The teams have a 55-60% chance of their figures winning in arbitration, historically. And with a guy like Gomes, his figure might not be that much higher. More times than not, the two sides will wind up settling before Arb with midpoint figures. Of course, this is assuming they could not reach a deal prior to that.

redsfandan
08-21-2009, 06:50 PM
Eh, not that bad.

The teams have a 55-60% chance of their figures winning in arbitration, historically. And with a guy like Gomes, his figure might not be that much higher. More times than not, the two sides will wind up settling before Arb with midpoint figures. Of course, this is assuming they could not reach a deal prior to that.
The problem with arbitration is that most of the time the player will receive a raise (sometimes a significant raise) whether they deserve one or not and it doesn't matter who wins the 'decision' either. In the end the player almost always wins.

Brutus
08-21-2009, 07:03 PM
The problem with arbitration is that most of the time the player will receive a raise (sometimes a significant raise) whether they deserve one or not and it doesn't matter who wins the 'decision' either. In the end the player almost always wins.

Well, Arbitration is awarded to either the club's figure or the player's figure. So if it actually makes it to that point, the panel has to decide which figure is more fair. If the teams win 55-60% of the time, then while it's true the player will usually get some sort of pay raise out of it, it's not always that bad.

Given the criteria used, if it made it to Arbitration, I don't think the Reds would get hurt too bad. That said, Gomes seems genuinely excited to be in the organization, so if they make him a fair offer ($2 mil?) I suspect he'll take it.

Highlifeman21
08-21-2009, 07:17 PM
I know the mayor of Hoboken, and I can tell you that Hoboken doesn't want him either.

Perth Amboy might take him. Otherwise may I suggest Connecticut.

Trust me, Connecticut wants nothing to do with him.

Although, his game is suited to play for the Defenders or the RockCats.

camisadelgolf
08-22-2009, 01:15 PM
are you sure about this? this is different that what was posted here a month or two ago (ie that we controlled him for 2010 and that he was arbitration eligible)
Yeah, I'm sure. It's like what they went through with Mike Lincoln last season.

Degenerate39
08-22-2009, 01:23 PM
It's weird, because Fay has good perfect normally.

I wish I could give you rep for that

tommycash
08-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Here is my problem with the Gomes situation. We all agree that he has been good this year, but even if we do trade him, why would a team give us anything for this guy, when we don't even play him. Come on Dusty, give this guy some at bats. We will never know what Gomes can really do because he has never had over 400 at bats. So far he has only played in 67 games. We have been talking about needing a power right handed bat, and while I don't think Gomes is the long term solution we need, how can we know how good he is unless he gets a chance to prove himself. I say don't trade him yet, let him play more this year, and see how good he really is.