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View Full Version : So Harang and Arroyo still don't have trade value, really?



LouisvilleCARDS
08-20-2009, 04:06 PM
They've been pitching pretty well lately. I'm surprised they have zero trade value.

Red Rover
08-20-2009, 04:08 PM
Since the trade deadline,

Arroyo - 2.03ERA & 4 qualtity starts
Harang - 2.86ERA & 3 qualtity starts

CySeymour
08-20-2009, 04:25 PM
I think the problem is BCast wants to hold on to them

FlyerFanatic
08-20-2009, 04:25 PM
i dont think its that they dont have trade value, its their contracts. the reds probably dont wanna pay any of it, especially if the yanks or bo sox have interest. they're probably telling them no way, we shouldnt have to pick up any of his contract.

Fullboat
08-20-2009, 04:28 PM
To expensive in today's market.I say hold on to both till next years trade deadline and get something for them then or trade them this off season.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-20-2009, 04:41 PM
I understand the contracts are expensive, I'm shocked though no one is interested. They both only have one more year on their contract, and most of this year is up, they'll be paid minimally this year. I'm guessing the way they've imploded at times over the year is hanging above their heads over anything else. Their contracts would be a lot more tolerable if their ERA for the year was about 3.50 or so, even though both of theirs have dropped considerably. I guess teams don't expect the way they're pitching now will hold up, but if it does, they would be a huge asset to a team signing them for the playoff run and in the playoffs.

TheBigLebowski
08-20-2009, 09:05 PM
crap - wrong thread again.

Captain Hook
08-20-2009, 09:46 PM
Their contracts would be a lot more tolerable if their ERA for the year was about 3.50 or so

If this was the case everyone in need of pitching would want them.We also would be a better team then what we are right now and probably wouldn't want to trade them.

I wouldn't want to get rid of them simply because I think we have seen the two of them at their worse(especially Harang) and if we want to trade them, this time next year is when the return would be the highest considering the expiring contracts and anticipated performance improvements.And who knows?Maybe we might need them for a playoff run of our own.:rolleyes:

Hondo
08-21-2009, 01:30 AM
Somebody should get desperate like the White Sox... Yeah see, the White Sox...

Harang for Beckham... See... Harang for Beckham...

Also, Phillies need a Closer, See... Yeah See...

Cordero for Drabek, See, CoCo for Drabek...

Oh yeah...

Slyder
08-21-2009, 01:38 AM
No way Phillies are "that desperate". They walked away from Roy Halladay cause they werent going to give up Drabek.

Hondo
08-21-2009, 01:57 AM
No way Phillies are "that desperate". They walked away from Roy Halladay cause they werent going to give up Drabek.

I agree but the Blue Jays also wanted Dominic Brown and J.A. Happ and Drabek...

I would be happy with Brown or Drabek...

Oh and would you go into the playoffs with Lidge and his 7.00+ ERA????

Slyder
08-21-2009, 02:25 AM
I agree but the Blue Jays also wanted Dominic Brown and J.A. Happ and Drabek...

I would be happy with Brown or Drabek...

Oh and would you go into the playoffs with Lidge and his 7.00+ ERA????

No but Drabek was the one guy the Phillies refused to even discuss. Theyre not going to turn around and trade him for a closer. There maybe others that they would discuss but there is no way the Phils trade Drabek.

Hondo
08-21-2009, 02:32 AM
No but Drabek was the one guy the Phillies refused to even discuss. Theyre not going to turn around and trade him for a closer. There maybe others that they would discuss but there is no way the Phils trade Drabek.

Well, what other Closer are they going to get? Heath Bell cannot be traded because he didn't pass through waivers...

Slyder
08-21-2009, 02:39 AM
Well, what other Closer are they going to get? Heath Bell cannot be traded because he didn't pass through waivers...


Did Billy Wagner?

Hondo
08-21-2009, 02:42 AM
Did Billy Wagner?

I don't know...

Slyder
08-21-2009, 02:42 AM
What about Pedro in to close for the playoffs?

Ryan Madsen seems to have the makeup to close.

That is assuming...
1 Lee
2 Hamels
3 Blanton (in some order)

Rinse repeat as the rotation.

Hondo
08-21-2009, 02:45 AM
What about Pedro in to close for the playoffs?

Ya know, I doubt that will happen but I wonder why the Phillies didn't contact John Smoltz about closing before the Cards signed him... Maybe Smoltz just wanted to Start...

Interesting though... Interesting...

I would Love for the Reds to move Cordero and his Salary Next Year to the Phillies and get a Top Prospect in Return... This trade makes a lot of sense...

Slyder
08-21-2009, 02:49 AM
Ya know, I doubt that will happen but I wonder why the Phillies didn't contact John Smoltz about closing before the Cards signed him... Maybe Smoltz just wanted to Start...

Interesting though... Interesting...

I would Love for the Reds to move Cordero and his Salary Next Year to the Phillies and get a Top Prospect in Return... This trade makes a lot of sense...

I doubt if many would just for the payflex. The question becomes with the money saved do you go out and try and get someone like afforementioned Billy Wagner (when whatever team doesnt pick up the option), John Smoltz, or Trevor Hoffman (to complete the circle) or do you stay young and cheaper and give it to someone in house?

This question isnt just for Hondo, as many have woahd about Cordero's contract.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-21-2009, 05:05 PM
If this was the case everyone in need of pitching would want them.We also would be a better team then what we are right now and probably wouldn't want to trade them.

I wouldn't want to get rid of them simply because I think we have seen the two of them at their worse(especially Harang) and if we want to trade them, this time next year is when the return would be the highest considering the expiring contracts and anticipated performance improvements.And who knows?Maybe we might need them for a playoff run of our own.:rolleyes:

Dunno if we would be any better seeing what we have this year. I mean, Harang and Arroyo have had their fair share of 6, 7 plus run implosions in less than 3 innings. I don't think those games went on to be 11-10 losses, more like we just got beat by 8 or 9 instead or 4 or 5.

If Arroyo cut out his first inning implosions against teams like Toronto, and just cut the runs given up in half, instead of getting destroyed, his ERA would be a good amount lower. We wouldn't have those games any more than him giving up 10 though, so its kind of moot.

TheBigLebowski
08-21-2009, 05:38 PM
Perhaps we're all missing the obvious.

I am in the minority around here insofar as my belief that we can and should contend next year. I believe it even more now that we've got Rolen on board and we've jettisoned Seabass. Tavares may have a career-threatening hammy pull which helps immeasurably. Clearly the FO also believes we're a competing team next year with the move to pick up Rolen.

We all know we've got no Volquez until at least July of next year. I think our FO is going to use the rest of the season to evaluate what Homer might contribute next year. Certainly not a sure thing that he'll pitch his way into the 2010 rotation, although I believe he will.

So when you consider we're already down arguably our best pitcher for at least 2/3rds of next year, Bailey and Maloney certainly are not sure things and our FA money should be spent on an OF and SS, does it make any sense to deal off 2 proven, dependable starters? Doesn't make much to me unless you'd be getting back someone you could conceivably toss into the rotation next year or use the money you'd save on a FA SP, and there aren't many FA's out there in 2010 that excite me.

TheBigLebowski
08-21-2009, 05:55 PM
Actually, something just occurred to me - the "pitching and defense" strat didn't do much for us this year, so maybe we're going the opposite direction next year. We'll deal off Harang/Arroyo/Cordero/etc and we'll go into the season with a mantra of "Cueto, Lehr, then bring plenty of beer."

Slyder
08-21-2009, 10:14 PM
Actually, something just occurred to me - the "pitching and defense" strat didn't do much for us this year, so maybe we're going the opposite direction next year. We'll deal off Harang/Arroyo/Cordero/etc and we'll go into the season with a mantra of "Cueto, Lehr, then bring plenty of beer."

:bowrofl: Well Played Good Sir. Heres some imaginary rep for you.

TheBigLebowski
08-21-2009, 11:16 PM
:bowrofl: Well Played Good Sir. Heres some imaginary rep for you.

Gracias.

Natty Redlocks
08-21-2009, 11:29 PM
Perhaps we're all missing the obvious.

I am in the minority around here insofar as my belief that we can and should contend next year. I believe it even more now that we've got Rolen on board and we've jettisoned Seabass. Tavares may have a career-threatening hammy pull which helps immeasurably. Clearly the FO also believes we're a competing team next year with the move to pick up Rolen.

We all know we've got no Volquez until at least July of next year. I think our FO is going to use the rest of the season to evaluate what Homer might contribute next year. Certainly not a sure thing that he'll pitch his way into the 2010 rotation, although I believe he will.

So when you consider we're already down arguably our best pitcher for at least 2/3rds of next year, Bailey and Maloney certainly are not sure things and our FA money should be spent on an OF and SS, does it make any sense to deal off 2 proven, dependable starters? Doesn't make much to me unless you'd be getting back someone you could conceivably toss into the rotation next year or use the money you'd save on a FA SP, and there aren't many FA's out there in 2010 that excite me.
This is the same FO that thought Willie Taveras should receive five million dollars in exchange for slowly torturing the fan base. I like your mantra better, and I'll even add to it: "Bruce and Votto and get freaking blotto"