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Raisor
08-22-2009, 07:05 PM
I know we've done this before, but with the current state of the team, I'm curious: What have you been wrong about with regards to the Reds?

Me, I'm never wrong, but I know the rest of you have been (except maybe Krono)


so:

I was wrong about....

Hoosier Red
08-22-2009, 07:09 PM
Tavares first and foremost. I tried to talk myself into his speed.

I was wrong about Rosales who I thought would be a competent back up but is really Janish like with the stick.

On the plus side I was wrong about Arthur Rhodes and Danny Ray Herrera as I've been pleasantly surprised about both.

blumj
08-22-2009, 07:11 PM
Me, I'm never wrong

Sorry, I'd like to help, but I'm never wrong either.

Ron Madden
08-22-2009, 07:13 PM
I was wrong about Edwin. I thought he would have a productive season after hitting 26 HRs last year.

Hap
08-22-2009, 07:13 PM
I said a couple years ago that Joey Votto wasn't any good.

BCubb2003
08-22-2009, 07:16 PM
I was wrong about Votto. I thought he'd be overshadowed by Bruce.

reds44
08-22-2009, 07:17 PM
I was wrong about Edwin. He's not very good at baseball.

(I did want the Reds to trade for Edwin Jackson before he got good though, so that offsets my Edwins?)

Oh, I thought Marcus McBeth would be good too.

Homer Bailey
08-22-2009, 07:18 PM
I was wrong in that I did not predict that Taveras would be the worst player in the major leagues this year.

Raisor
08-22-2009, 07:19 PM
I was wrong in that I did not predict that Taveras would be the worst player in the major leagues this year.

I did!

mth123
08-22-2009, 07:22 PM
I'll go. If we are limiting it to this year I was wrong about the following:

1. Arthur Rhodes - I didn't think he'd be good in full inning stints and thought he was only a loogy. He's been great.

2. Alex Gonzalez - I figured he'd never play again and the SS spot would suck. Well he did play and the SS spot sucked.

3. Jared Burton - I thought he was ready for the 8th inning.

4. Danny Rae Herrera - I figured he'd be awful by Memorial day.

5. Jay Bruce - I didn't think he'd be an MVP candidate but did think he'd be a plus. He's alarmingly bad at the plate.

6. Ramon Hernadez - I thought his defense would be awful, but he was OK back there and great at 1B.

and finally,

7. Walt Jocketty - Until the Willy T signing, I thought he might have a clue. Seems he doesn't.

RFS62
08-22-2009, 07:26 PM
I was wrong when I thought that the Reds could never play so badly for so long that I would lose interest in them.

RANDY IN INDY
08-22-2009, 07:27 PM
I was wrong when opening this thread, in thinking that Raisor was going to admit he was wrong about something.

RED VAN HOT
08-22-2009, 07:29 PM
I was wrong about...

I thought Jay Bruce would hit at least .260 this year.
I thought Paul Janish could hit .250 if he played regularly. This has yet to be fully disproved, but I am beginning to doubt that it can happen without a better hitting surrounding cast.
I thought the starting rotation would rank among the top in the NL.
I thought the Reds would run opponents out of the park. They rank 7th in NL.

If you do one of these on the minor league side, I will fare even worse.

WMR
08-22-2009, 07:37 PM
I was wrong to think that Teh Dusty would eventually put the T-VIRUS in the #8 hole instead of batting him in the top 2 all season.

Cooper
08-22-2009, 07:40 PM
I was wrong about EE. I thought he'd do more.

I was wrong about Rhodes. I did not think he would be this good, this long.

I'm sure there were others....oh here's one from a long time ago. I thought Ruben Mateo would be a good player...like may be .850 OPS good.

Always Red
08-22-2009, 07:52 PM
I really thought that Bob Castellini was going to be a great owner. I think that he wants to own a winner, but has no idea of how to go about doing so.

Spring~Fields
08-22-2009, 08:01 PM
I know we've done this before, but with the current state of the team, I'm curious: What have you been wrong about with regards to the Reds?

Me, I'm never wrong, but I know the rest of you have been (except maybe Krono)


so:

I was wrong about....

Easy one for me. Jay Bruce at this stage in his very young career.

Subject to change, Cmon Jay, stop paying attention to your hitting instructors and get back to what you were doing after you are well. :thumbup:

Oh yeah and Castellini, because "hope", hope will turn around and bite one almost everytime when it has nothing to back it up.

Mario-Rijo
08-22-2009, 08:02 PM
Hmmm, tough one here. I don't recall...ugh...oh got one.

I was wrong about Danny Herrera making it this far being this productive. I still don't think he has a long shelf life but he has done better this year than I suspected.

I was wrong about Harang having dropped off stuff wise. I saw his issues last year and hoped/figured it was just a health oriented issue (so I argued it that way, not wanting to believe it). I figured it would resolve itself with rest in the offseason. He's still better though than people make him out to be but he's definitely not the Harang of old.

I was wrong about Bruce having an MVP like season. After reading an article around late in spring training I believed he was gonna have one. He said everything correctly in that interview about what he needed to do to be succesful at the plate. The problem I didn't expect was him not following his own advice. He needs to learn to discipline his behavior at the plate and once that happens he'll be all we hoped for. I also didn't seeing him being such a good RF so soon during the offseason. He had a bad defensive year last season and although his arm was good I didn't see it as great but he has turned me around on both of those issues, his defense was both stellar and critical to the team this year. A healthy and disciplined Jay Bruce next year goes a real long way to being where we hoped we could be this year. A lot of guys are down on him right now but I haven't budged an iota (in fact I have gotten higher on him) he's gonna be spectacular better sign him long term right now.

Everything else I feel pretty good about in fact I am thinking of starting a thread where some can gloat about what they were right about, we need a feel good thread. But we all know how that would turn out. Maybe we should do it anyway. :D

GAC
08-22-2009, 08:08 PM
I was wrong about Jay Bruce being the team MVP.

But I was right about everything else. So that is a better winning percentage then this organization has ever seen! :D

Mario-Rijo
08-22-2009, 08:18 PM
Oh I would add Burton to that mix as well but I'm just not ready to give up on him yet. I' hoping he bounces back, guys in the pen do have some strange years. Look at Brad Lidges last several years from Hero to Goat to world beater and back to goat again.

mbgrayson
08-22-2009, 08:19 PM
I was wrong about the number of wins....I thought they would break .500 this year...

Of course, they played above .500 ball till the 4th of July, then fell off the cliff. As today's Baseball Prospectus Hit List (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9426)says:

Two-Sixty-Eight: That's the Reds' winning percentage since July 4, the last day they were over .500; they're 11-30 since then, and the nightmares just get worse thanks to Dusty Baker's push-button managing.

Of course, besides blaming Dusty, there have been a lot of injuries this year, a disproportionate number.

Spring~Fields
08-22-2009, 08:19 PM
I was wrong about Jay Bruce being the team MVP.

But I was right about everything else. So that is a better winning percentage then this organization has ever seen! :D

Shoot all we have to do is go cynical or negative on most and we will have a high percentage of being right with this organization, and that stinks. :(
I would like to think that none of us want to be right about the negatives.

Fess up GAC, you know you were wrong about Dusty, that he is actually a very fine manager. :)

Joseph
08-22-2009, 08:38 PM
I was wrong about this team being willing to do whatever it needs to win. That rests squarely on the shoulders of one Robert Castellini.

oneupper
08-22-2009, 08:41 PM
Edwin - he never clicked.
Bruce - not the phenom I thought
Alex Gonzalez - thought he would be half decent
Dusty Baker - even worse than I feared.

and so many more.

RED VAN HOT
08-22-2009, 09:02 PM
Damn, this is cleansing.

membengal
08-22-2009, 09:04 PM
I was wrong in thinking that Jay Bruce would have spent the off-season studying up on the hole in his swing and address it and take a leap this year.

Guess. Not.

SMcGavin
08-22-2009, 09:41 PM
I was wrong about Nick Masset, I thought he was a bum.

HeatherC1212
08-22-2009, 10:04 PM
I was wrong about Herrera. I was worried about him early in the season when he had trouble getting guys out (I was at one of his early games and he didn't pitch well at all) but he's been about as close to nails as you can get for the majority of the season. I was also wrong about Lincoln who I thought would be really good for the bullpen this year. That one definitely turned out wrong. *smacks head* :eek:

On the other side though, I was totally right that Joey Votto would be a star this year. Go me, LOL :D

Team Clark
08-22-2009, 10:20 PM
I was wrong about Brook Jacoby. I thought the time he spent with Rudy Jaramillo would have taught him something. I was dead wrong.

OnBaseMachine
08-22-2009, 10:23 PM
I was wrong about Edwin Encarnacion and Micah Owings. I thought EdE would have a break out season and post an .875+ OPS. I also thought Micah Owings will have a solid season and develop into a middle of rotation starter. I was wrong.

Also, Nick Masset has pitched better than I thought he would.

hebroncougar
08-22-2009, 10:37 PM
1. Didn't think Phillips would improve his plate discipline
2. I really didn't think Dusty Baker was as bad as Cubs fans screamed. He's not, he's worse.
3. I thought maybe Walt would do us some good.
4. I thought Jay Bruce would hit .280 with 30+ HR's this year.
5. I thought Harang would have a pretty good bounce back year.
6. I thought Edwin would break out this year as well.

Brutus
08-22-2009, 11:09 PM
I was wrong about....

You had me at hello.

You had me at hello!

MrCinatit
08-22-2009, 11:30 PM
I really thought that Bob Castellini was going to be a great owner. I think that he wants to own a winner, but has no idea of how to go about doing so.

That is mine, as well. It is also sounding like he likes to meddle in things, so we now have George Steinbrenner, but without the money and winning and stuff. In other words, a simply bad owner.

BCubb2003
08-22-2009, 11:39 PM
Once I was wrong about Raisor being wrong but the replay showed otherwise.

Strikes Out Looking
08-23-2009, 12:17 AM
I was wrong about:
1. Dusty not being so bad; I thought that his rapport with the players would allow them to play better--no matter how bad his in game managing is.
2. Bob Castellini not being Carl Linder Jr. To be a successful owner, sometimes you have to spend a little $$$ up front and be a civic cheerleader not a civic downer (i.e. don't whine that your team doesn't have a big market--you make your own market).
3. Willie Taveras. He just stunk.

gm
08-23-2009, 12:24 AM
I once thought I was wrong about something, but then after careful consideration I realized...

I was wrong

At least the Pirate's organization is still the worst...oops

What's it gona take to finally pull the Reds out of the ditch? Volquez and Cueto looked so promising, but young pitching can go "poof" just like that

Meanwhile the Blazers and the Vikings are franchises on the rise so my attention is being diverted away from Cincy baseball. I still tune into the games, but I'll see a new player and ask myself...when did they get this guy? If Dusty and Walt can't get things turned around, who else is out there that can...and is willing to try?

I don't think there's a right answer to these rhetorical questions, but a lot of "wrong" answers have already been tried...

corkedbat
08-23-2009, 12:32 AM
1. David Weathers - I thought "reality" would catch up to Stormy two years ago. I was very wrong. Weathers always battled and did a fine job for this franchise.

2. Jay Bruce - I didn't see this as a breakout year for Jay, but I did expect solid improvement

3. Walt Jocketty - I thought that Walt would come up with a blockbuster by the trade deadline that would put his stamp on this franchise and signify the direction he would take this franchise. Unfortunatley, I believe the Rolen deal fulfilled only the second part and I am less than immpressed to say the least. I was hoping for a turnaround, but just got more of the same.

Spring~Fields
08-23-2009, 12:40 AM
I never thought that the Reds offense could get worse with time, but the past two seasons has proved me wrong.



August 22, 2003
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Cincinnati 57 70 .449 9.5 568 693 -125

August 22, 2004
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Cincinnati 59 64 .480 22.5 582 690 -108

August 22, 2005
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Cincinnati 57 67 .460 21.5 646 690 -44

August 22, 2006
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Cincinnati 66 60 .524 1 634 642 -8

August 22, 2007
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Cincinnati 56 70 .444 9.5 603 675 -72
Pittsburgh 54 71 .432 11 566 641 -75

August 22, 2008
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Pittsburgh 57 71 .445 21 593 693 -100
Cincinnati 57 72 .442 21.5 545 648 -103

August 22, 2009
W L PCT GB RS RA DIFF
Pittsburgh 51 70 .421 17.5 502 557 -55
Cincinnati 51 71 .418 18 476 581 -105

cincrazy
08-23-2009, 01:09 AM
I thought they'd win 82 games. I thought Willy couldn't possibly be as bad as Corey. I thought we'd spend money. I thought, I thought, I thought. I was wrong.

MWM
08-23-2009, 01:25 AM
Votto. I thought he'd take a step backwards this year.

I was wrong about EE, but only previous to last year. After last year, I pretty much figured he'd wind up a disappointment.

But I hate that I was right about most everything else. I predicted Bruce to have a tough year based mostly on his lack of plate discipline. I thought Volquez would take a big step back, but not the TJ surgery. I thought the offense would be the worst I've seen in Cincy in my lifetime. I knew Gonzo would be awful, and Taveras was about as predictable as it gets.

I did think Jocketty would be better, but I'm not sure he's worked under a situation similar to what the Reds face right now. He could be one of those guys who can be great in certain situations, but clueless anywhere else.... like a doctor outside of the medicine they practice.

And mostly I was right about Castellini the day he bought the Reds. If there was ever anything I wish I was completely wrong about, that would be it. I don't think this organization has the first clue how to be successful in today's world of baseball. The Reds are pretty much the Pirates these days, and that's sad because unlike Pittsburgh we happen to have the worst franchise in the NFL (maybe even all professional sports). Maybe I'll catch Favre fever up here in the Land of Lakes. :)

MWM
08-23-2009, 02:14 AM
What was Raisor wrong about?

http://reds.enquirer.com/img/photos/1999/06/060399broussard_550x413.jpg

Mario-Rijo
08-23-2009, 03:26 AM
I was wrong about Brook Jacoby. I thought the time he spent with Rudy Jaramillo would have taught him something. I was dead wrong.

Touche' TC good call. I just got done sending someone a PM about the likelihood of him getting his walking papers at the end of the season.

RedsBaron
08-23-2009, 09:09 AM
I was wrong when I thought that the Reds could never play so badly for so long that I would lose interest in them.

Man, is that ever true. At the moment the Reds are even worse than the Pirates.

StillFunkyB
08-23-2009, 09:29 AM
I was wrong in thinking for a moment that the Josh Hamilton trade was decent.

I was wrong in thinking that Bruce would have a decent season.

I was wrong in thinking that Dusty "can't be that bad".

I was wrong in thinking that Jerry Hairston knew how to play baseball.

I was wrong in thinking that RedsZone was a decent place to come and discuss things but all that it seems like now is a giant place for people to scream LET'S TRADE X PLAYER. Yeah, that's going to solve things. Let's just ****ing trade everyone.

Team Clark
08-23-2009, 11:38 AM
Touche' TC good call. I just got done sending someone a PM about the likelihood of him getting his walking papers at the end of the season.

Hard to say what the current front office is thinking. Honestly, at the end of the year meeting with Dusty and Walt, I can not think of one thing he could lay on the table to save his job.

Degenerate39
08-23-2009, 11:42 AM
I thought this team would be good.

mth123
08-23-2009, 11:57 AM
Hard to say what the current front office is thinking. Honestly, at the end of the year meeting with Dusty and Walt, I can not think of one thing he could lay on the table to save his job.

How about his $3.5 Million guarantee?

nate
08-23-2009, 12:24 PM
I thought the team would be at least .500.

I thought Walt Jocketty would be a good GM.

BCubb2003
08-23-2009, 12:32 PM
... thinking it will never ever get better.

RedEye
08-23-2009, 01:14 PM
... the starting rotation. I thought at least 2/5 of it would stay healthy the entire year.

RedEye
08-23-2009, 01:15 PM
... Jay Bruce. I thought he'd hit .250 with 35 HR this year.

RedEye
08-23-2009, 01:15 PM
... Willy Taveras. I thought he'd at least masquerade as a good player for those who like speed and defense.

RedEye
08-23-2009, 01:16 PM
... Scott Rolen. I thought he'd still be on the Toronto Blue Jays right now.

Raisor
08-23-2009, 04:12 PM
What was Raisor wrong about?

http://reds.enquirer.com/img/photos/1999/06/060399broussard_550x413.jpg

Nice try, but FAIL!

I was actually spot on Big Ben Broussard. Never said he'd be a star, just that he'd produce about what Casey would at a fraction of the cost.

Ben career OPS+104
Casey OPS+109

Casey Career (may be incomplete) $41,295,000
Ben Career (may be incomplete) $10,879,600

dfs
08-23-2009, 05:47 PM
Hard to say what the current front office is thinking. Honestly, at the end of the year meeting with Dusty and Walt, I can not think of one thing he could lay on the table to save his job. I'll certainly agree with the first sentence there. First they trade two prospects and a cheap starter for an expensive old "all star. Two weeks later they make public announcements about slowly building from within by developing players. Three days later they are promoting Drew Stubbs before he's ready because Wily Taveras got hurt.

I have no idea what this front office is thinking. Are they upset with Dusty? I have no idea. I watch the franchise pretty intently, and I can not begin to guess at what they are thinking.

LoganBuck
08-23-2009, 05:51 PM
... Jay Bruce. I thought he'd hit .250 with 35 HR this year.

Had he not got hurt, I still think that would have been attainable. He still leads the team in homers, and has been out for almost two months. You have to hope he would have turned around sometime.

Team Clark
08-23-2009, 09:38 PM
How about his $3.5 Million guarantee?

I was talking about Jacoby. Dusty isn't going anywhere.

HeatherC1212
08-23-2009, 09:40 PM
Had he not got hurt, I still think that would have been attainable. He still leads the team in homers, and has been out for almost two months. You have to hope he would have turned around sometime.

Joey tied him with 18 HRs the other night. ;)

cincinnati chili
08-23-2009, 10:42 PM
1. David Weathers - I thought "reality" would catch up to Stormy two years ago. I was very wrong. Weathers always battled and did a fine job for this franchise.


ditto. I thought he'd be crap, and he was useful.

I have been wrong about Aaron Harang repeatedly. When the Jose Guillen trade happened, I thought Valentine was the jewel of the trade and that Harang was a throw-in with a #4 starter upside. Instead he gave us a couple years as a #1 starter. On the contrary, this year I was wrong when I thought he'd turn it around.

top6
08-24-2009, 01:25 AM
I thought they would lose 100 games this year, but now I think I was wrong (and unduly optimistic).

WVRedsFan
08-24-2009, 03:28 AM
I'll go. If we are limiting it to this year I was wrong about the following:

1. Arthur Rhodes - I didn't think he'd be good in full inning stints and thought he was only a loogy. He's been great.

2. Alex Gonzalez - I figured he'd never play again and the SS spot would suck. Well he did play and the SS spot sucked.

3. Jared Burton - I thought he was ready for the 8th inning.

4. Danny Rae Herrera - I figured he'd be awful by Memorial day.

5. Jay Bruce - I didn't think he'd be an MVP candidate but did think he'd be a plus. He's alarmingly bad at the plate.

6. Ramon Hernadez - I thought his defense would be awful, but he was OK back there and great at 1B.

and finally,

7. Walt Jocketty - Until the Willy T signing, I thought he might have a clue. Seems he doesn't.

My list mirrors yours, mth. Especially No. 5. Just more proof that minor league stats are not exactly what they seem. Jay may finally develop into a good, not spectacular outfielder at the plate, but I seriously doubt it now.

tripleaaaron
08-24-2009, 03:52 AM
I was wrong when asked which jersey I wanted for my birthday. Bruce for sure I said, shoulda gone Votto.

I was wrong for being optimistic again.

I was wrong when I put money on the reds win loss over in vegas of 76.

I was wrong when I thought we were positioning ourselves for a solid 2010.

I was wrong about Aaron Harang having a bounce back to 2007, Burton repeating '08 and EE building off the same.

I was wrong when I thought Danny Rey was a legal midget, but not by much.

I was wrong when I thought a manager could have much effect over the outcome of the game.

I was wrong when I said at least willy can bunt. He really didint look like one of the best bunters as tabbed.

I was wrong when I said C Dickerson would take over center by july. See two above.
I was wrong when I said Dusty would be gone after this season. So far it appears that dusty is here for good. Yea
I was wrong a lot this year.

traderumor
08-24-2009, 10:44 AM
Bruce is a washed up 23 year old, eh? :rolleyes:

OnBaseMachine
08-24-2009, 12:32 PM
My list mirrors yours, mth. Especially No. 5. Just more proof that minor league stats are not exactly what they seem. Jay may finally develop into a good, not spectacular outfielder at the plate, but I seriously doubt it now.

He's 22 years old. 22. I'm stunned at how many people are giving up on him at age 22. Wow.

SunDeck
08-24-2009, 12:33 PM
I was wrong to think my love of the Reds could make me think of them the same way I do the Bengals.

cincrazy
08-24-2009, 12:36 PM
He's 22 years old. 22. I'm stunned at how many people are giving up on him at age 22. Wow.

Agreed. I'm as hopeless about the future of this franchise as anyone, but I don't doubt the fact that Jay Bruce can still turn into a great player.

WVRedsFan
08-24-2009, 12:55 PM
He's 22 years old. 22. I'm stunned at how many people are giving up on him at age 22. Wow.

Not giving up on him at all. Just saying that many things might have led to his struggles--he came up too soon is one of them and another is lack of instruction (my pet peeve). He's a smart young man, but learning on your own is tough. Then again, I may be totally wrong on this. Maybe he is getting the instruction and isn't responding. Like you, I hope it's youth, but we all thought Edwin was going to be really something and were disappointed.

nate
08-24-2009, 01:27 PM
Not giving up on him at all. Just saying that many things might have led to his struggles--he came up too soon is one of them and another is lack of instruction (my pet peeve). He's a smart young man, but learning on your own is tough. Then again, I may be totally wrong on this. Maybe he is getting the instruction and isn't responding.

Maybe it's just difficult playing major league baseball?


Like you, I hope it's youth, but we all thought Edwin was going to be really something and were disappointed.

We all did and were?

Bumstead
08-24-2009, 02:17 PM
I thought Dusty couldn't manage the Reds to less wins than they were capable of...

I thought Castelini and Jockety would have more control over who Dusty played when...

I thought Castelini was smart enough to understand how to build a team and not think he could win with what was already there...

I thought Dickerson would get a chance to show how he could perform if he played daily...

I didn't think Willy would have the worst season batting leadoff in major league history...of course no other manager in history would have allowed it to happen...

15fan
08-24-2009, 03:58 PM
In 1990, the Reds won their 3rd WS title during my 17 years of existence on the planet.

I joined the grownup world thinking that post-season baseball was supposed to include the Reds on at least a semi-regular basis.

They have been to the post-season once in the subsequent 18 (soon to be 19) seasons.

Ltlabner
08-24-2009, 04:09 PM
For a week or two early on I was thinking my forecast of epic fail might have been off-the-mark.

Turns out, I was wrong about that.

Roy Tucker
08-24-2009, 05:34 PM
...predicting the Reds would win 92 games.

:all_cohol

BRM
08-24-2009, 05:38 PM
For a week or two early on I was thinking my forecast of epic fail might have been off-the-mark.

Turns out, I was wrong about that.

Has the failure really been epic? Or has it just been standard, run-of-the-mill Reds failure?

Ltlabner
08-24-2009, 05:44 PM
Has the failure really been epic? Or has it just been standard, run-of-the-mill Reds failure?

No, I think a strong case could be made for the epicocity of the fail in question.

BRM
08-24-2009, 05:54 PM
No, I think a strong case could be made for the epicocity of the fail in question.

Great word. :laugh:

Krusty
08-24-2009, 06:58 PM
I was wrong thinking the Reds could replace the lost offensive production with the departures of Griffey and Dunn.

Highlifeman21
08-25-2009, 09:47 PM
I was wrong thinking the Reds could replace the lost offensive production with the departures of Griffey and Dunn.

But I thought they replaced Dunn's production with Gomes?

Chip R
08-26-2009, 11:27 PM
I was wrong thinking the Reds would never sign Lew Ford to a minor league deal.

membengal
07-29-2012, 06:48 PM
Two things...in light of the discussion in the other thread, I thought this might be a nice reminder that the very best posters are able to happily re-examine opinions.

Second...I was in Camden today for the O's/A's and witness to Lew Ford's return to MLB...

mth123
07-29-2012, 06:52 PM
Two things...in light of the discussion in the other thread, I thought this might be a nice reminder that the very best posters are able to happily re-examine opinions.

Second...I was in Camden today for the O's/A's and witness to Lew Ford's return to MLB...

There you go bringing this up. Now I've got to say I was wrong about what I was wrong about...

...Walt Jocketty is a pretty good GM in spite of his deal for Willy T.
;)

membengal
07-29-2012, 06:54 PM
There you go bringing this up. Now I've got to say I was wrong about what I was wrong about...

...Walt Jocketty is a pretty good GM in spite of his deal for Willy T.
;)

I continue to exercise my self-believed divine right to be frustrated with Walt J, while marveling that they are currently one of the best Reds teams of my lifetime, and tip my cap to him and Dusty for whatever credit they deserve for that.

Also, a reminder for myself (and anyone else who it might apply to) that message board posting shouldn't be a high contact sport, all opinions are generally welcome, and its okay to have an opinion, re-examine it, and enjoy the evolution of one's views on any given topic.

Mario-Rijo
07-29-2012, 06:57 PM
I was wrong about Brook Jacoby. I thought the time he spent with Rudy Jaramillo would have taught him something. I was dead wrong.

Great post TC!

Kc61
07-29-2012, 07:00 PM
I was wrong about Homer Bailey. Don't trade him!

Raisor
07-29-2012, 07:04 PM
Nope, still not wrong ;)

Mario-Rijo
07-29-2012, 07:05 PM
I continue to exercise my self-believed divine right to be frustrated with Walt J, while marveling that they are currently one of the best Reds teams of my lifetime, and tip my cap to him and Dusty for whatever credit they deserve for that.

Also, a reminder for myself (and anyone else who it might apply to) that message board posting shouldn't be a high contact sport, all opinions are generally welcome, and its okay to have an opinion, re-examine it, and enjoy the evolution of one's views on any given topic.

Agree on both counts, especially #1 couldn't have said it better myself!

mth123
07-29-2012, 07:06 PM
I was right about Ryan Ludwick, and then, after his slow start, I changed my mind and was wrong about Ryan Ludwick. Now that he's doing as I originally said he might, it turns out I was right in the first place. Of course, if he tanks, then my later opinion will turn out to be right.

That ought to make the "I told you so" crowd's head spin a bit.

Tom Servo
07-29-2012, 07:07 PM
I was right about Ryan Ludwick and then after his slow start, I changed my mind and was wrong about Ryan Ludwick. Now that he's doing as I originally said he might it turns out I was right in the first place. Of course, if he tanks, then my later opinion will turn out to be right.

That ought to make the "I told you so" crowd's head spin a bit.
:laugh:

Same here. I was onboard with Luddy, and then briefly turned on him when he was slow to start and figured they should just give the at-bats to Heisey. But Ludwick has been great and I'm really happy with him. :)

Vottomatic
07-29-2012, 07:16 PM
I'm super happy this team might have the best record in mlb after today.

Gotta give props to the players. I guess I have to give props to Dusty, who I like as a person, but question his lineups and maneuvers. Not sure I still agree with all of them, but I'll give Dusty props.

I've been critical of management at times for failing to get a cleanup hitter to protect our highest paid player in the lineup, and a leadoff hitter to give our highest paid player someone to knock in.

But for today.......I'll say I was wrong.

But I reserve the right to come back and say I was right. :laugh: ;)

membengal
07-29-2012, 08:43 PM
For the record, I predicted, I think, somewhere around 77 wins the predictions thread. Given that they are 60-40, lets hope I undershot that by about 18 wins.

Where did I underestimate them? Primarily, the pitching staff. Never, ever, figured them to be this good. Not in a million years. Not this across-the-board good.

The goodness of the staff has masked what was the lack of consistent help around Votto, but even that has started to pick up.

In any event, yoinks, the Reds are really good.

RedlegJake
07-29-2012, 08:54 PM
I don't remember but I think I predicted 88 wins. Maybe 86. Never thought the pitching would be this good or stay this healthy. I thought Latos would be a bit better, Cueto would regress, Bailey would be worse, Arroyo would be the 2010 version (got that ok) and Leake would be about what he has been but no way did I expect the bullpen to be this good after Madsen Masset and Bray were out. In fact I expected it would be a disaster and the reason the Reds would be held from 90 or more wins. Boy was I wrong. I know I also predicted a huge year for Bruce with 40+ homers.

redsmetz
07-29-2012, 09:35 PM
I'm super happy this team might have the best record in mlb after today.

Gotta give props to the players. I guess I have to give props to Dusty, who I like as a person, but question his lineups and maneuvers. Not sure I still agree with all of them, but I'll give Dusty props.

I've been critical of management at times for failing to get a cleanup hitter to protect our highest paid player in the lineup, and a leadoff hitter to give our highest paid player someone to knock in.

But for today.......I'll say I was wrong.

But I reserve the right to come back and say I was right. :laugh: ;)

Who knew the solution was to get the highest paid player out of the lineup and let them win ten in a row!

OldXOhio
07-29-2012, 10:19 PM
Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries....just knew they were meant to be.

corkedbat
07-29-2012, 10:41 PM
Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries....just knew they were meant to be.

George Takei. I thought Chekov was the gay one.

AmarilloRed
07-29-2012, 10:46 PM
The Marshall trade. I thought it was unlikely the Reds would be able to give him a extension.

wolfboy
07-29-2012, 10:47 PM
More things than I can remember. I was mostly wrong about Arroyo this year. He's been solid, which is far more than I expected from him. So glad I was wrong (so far).

Dan
07-29-2012, 10:53 PM
I was wrong. I thought the reds should keep Stillwell and trade Larkin.

Always Red
07-29-2012, 11:00 PM
I really thought that Bob Castellini was going to be a great owner. I think that he wants to own a winner, but has no idea of how to go about doing so.

Ok, I was wrong again! :thumbup:

PS- I WAS totally wrong about Paul Householder- I really did drink the kool aid and thought he would be the next Mickey Mantle.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-30-2012, 01:32 AM
I thought the Reds should have dumped Bailey for just about anything in the offseason. I was clearly wrong about that.

thatcoolguy_22
07-30-2012, 04:41 AM
Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning
Votto for Bedard
Ludwick would be a bum
Winter wasn't coming
Jon Snow knew something
WJ was one step into retirement
Homer Bailey would have a better career than johnny cueto
Dusty Baker was a horrible manager
Joey Votto would not end his career as a Red.

thatcoolguy_22
07-30-2012, 04:41 AM
Double post

GAC
07-30-2012, 05:41 AM
I find that a majority of the times I have been wrong it was simply because I listened to, and allowed myself, to be taken in by YOU PEOPLE! :p

I now do just the opposite....

http://youtu.be/cKUvKE3bQlY

GAC
07-30-2012, 05:41 AM
dp

thatcoolguy_22
07-30-2012, 05:50 AM
The delayed triple post...

Scrap Irony
07-30-2012, 11:08 AM
There have been so many. The high low?) lights include:

--Brian Reith (Remember that guy? Convinced by a couple hot streaks in the lower minors.)
--That moving Danny Graves to starter was a stroke of genius. Ditto Scott Williamson.
--John Reidling as a more than capable set-up man/ possible closer for a decade. Sigh.
--Moving Dmitri Young and/or Austin Kearns to the hot corner made sense. (I still don't know if I'm wrong about that. It was certainly outside the box thinking.)
--Dealing Wily Mo Pena was stupid. Especially after his first year in Boston.
--Dealing Josh Hamilton was a good idea as evidenced by Volquez's first season.

Yeah, I'll stop there and go hang my head in shame. Maybe find a cylindrical hat to wear while I peruse a spider web in the spot where two walls meet.

Benihana
07-30-2012, 11:23 AM
I was wrong about Brandon Claussen.
I was wrong about Ricardo Aramboles.
I was wrong about Johnny Ruffin.
I was wrong about Ty Howington.

Those damn pitching prospects we kept acquiring in the JimBo years! (Technically Claussen was acquired the same day JimBo was fired)

Scrap Irony
07-30-2012, 11:28 AM
Those damn pitching prospects we kept acquiring in the JimBo years!

QFT.

I kept expecting one of them to work out. Just one.

None did. Literally. None.

How Bowden kept his job so long is a complete mystery.

smith288
07-30-2012, 02:19 PM
Still holding out hope for Chad Mattola.

Caveman Techie
07-30-2012, 03:07 PM
Long long time ago...Ok, not so long

I was wrong about drafting a high school pitcher...Homer Bailey. I didn't think we'd ever see him pitch in the majors except as a publicity stunt. But in my defense I had just read "MoneyBall"

Not so long ago....I was wrong about Homer Bailey again! I thought he would suck this season and should have been traded away to make room for Chapman. Now I still think Chapman should be starting, but Bailey has made me eat crow more than a few times this year. Hope he keeps it up.

Revering4Blue
07-30-2012, 05:17 PM
Heck, I expected the Champ Summers for Sheldon Burnside deal to work out in the Reds favor.

The Willie Greene Kool-Aid tasted pretty good at the time.

SunDeck
07-30-2012, 05:22 PM
I was wrong about Rolen. Thought he'd only play 50 games and bat .150.

Hap
07-30-2012, 05:53 PM
How Bowden kept his job so long is a complete mystery.

Because he did a favor for Bud Selig and his cronies by purposefully engineering Marge Schott's demise.

nate
07-31-2012, 10:39 AM
Onions.

As a kid, I hated onions. So much so that I'd ask if they were on everything. My uncle used to tease me saying we were going to be having "desert onions" after a meal.

Sorry to the onions, I misjudged you.

Sea Ray
07-31-2012, 10:58 AM
How Bowden kept his job so long is a complete mystery.

And how did he get another GM job?

He did absoutely nothing as a GM for the Reds and Nationals and now he's a "senior" baseball analyst for ESPN.

Go figure

Sea Ray
07-31-2012, 11:03 AM
Onions.

As a kid, I hated onions. So much so that I'd ask if they were on everything. My uncle used to tease me saying we were going to be having "desert onions" after a meal.

Sorry to the onions, I misjudged you.

Not to derail the thread but on a serious note, there's a biologic explanation for that. Your taste buds degrade worse than your eyesight in later years...;)

Kids' tastebuds are much more acute than ours. That's why they don't do Tabasko or Mexican. As a kid I can remember hating Hunts Ketchup and loving Heinz. Today in a blind taste test I'm sure I couldn't tell you the difference...

westofyou
07-31-2012, 12:49 PM
Socks... I thought I had my work socks with me when I rode to work today, alas I did not.

Now I have on bike socks.

I was wrong... and olives, hated them in my younger years love them to death now.

Oh and Willie Greene... way wrong on that

wheels
07-31-2012, 12:52 PM
I thought Herm Winningham was gonna be a left handed Eric Davis.

I've lived with the shame for decades.

Benihana
07-31-2012, 12:53 PM
I believed in Wladimir Balentien and Ruben Mateo.

Always Red
07-31-2012, 12:56 PM
Wrigley Field..when I was younger, I imagined it was Valhalla.

When I finally got there, I realized it was just a dump.

pedro
07-31-2012, 12:57 PM
Paul Householder was going to be the next Ken Griffey.

pedro
07-31-2012, 12:58 PM
Wrigley Field..when I was younger, I imagined it was Valhalla.

When I finally got there, I realized it was just a dump.

I haven't been there since they cleaned it up but that's how I felt about Fenway when I went there in the mid 90's. It smelled like pee and old hot dogs.

marcshoe
07-31-2012, 01:01 PM
Doug Capilla. Hey, the Reds traded Rawley Eastwick for him at the deadline; he had to be good!

I thought Bob Boone would be a better manager than McKeon.

That Gary Redus would be a superstar.

That Eric Milton would come around. I started listening to sabre guys because of Milton's failure.

Always Red
07-31-2012, 01:02 PM
Paul Householder was going to be the next Ken Griffey.

I always thought he was going to be the next Mickey Mantle, and it might have been Sparky who said it after seeing him as a very young player in ST one year.

* I cannot find any reference to Sparky saying that about Householder, though he was always talking big about the young guys in the minors. Sparky did hang the "next Mickey Mantle" noose around Kirk Gibson as a young guy, and Gibby struggled with that for some time.

wheels
07-31-2012, 01:36 PM
Doug Capilla. Hey, the Reds traded Rawley Eastwick for him at the deadline; he had to be good!

I thought Bob Boone would be a better manager than McKeon.

That Gary Redus would be a superstar.

That Eric Milton would come around. I started listening to sabre guys because of Milton's failure.

The Eric Milton era.....Wow. What an awful time to be a Reds fan.

Dan O'brien, etc....ugh.

Raisor
07-31-2012, 01:41 PM
The Eric Milton era.....Wow. What an awful time to be a Reds fan.

Dan O'brien, etc....ugh.

Who is this "Eric Milton" person you speak of?

Cyclone792
07-31-2012, 01:42 PM
That Eric Milton would come around. I started listening to sabre guys because of Milton's failure.

We were all wrong on Milton. All of us.

Even the folks who thought the Milton signing was awful were wrong. Because while we all thought he'd be bad, he ultimately turned out to be far worse than we'd ever think.

Raisor
07-31-2012, 01:46 PM
We were all wrong on Milton. All of us.

Even the folks who thought the Milton signing was awful were wrong. Because while we all thought he'd be bad, he ultimately turned out to be far worse than we'd ever think.

Was this some player from the 1880s?

RedsManRick
07-31-2012, 02:12 PM
I was wrong about being wrong about Matt Belisle. I argued for the longest time that he'd come around, given his solid K:BB rate. But he kept on struggling and you guys convinced me I was simply missing something. Lo and behold...

Seriously though, I really liked the Graves to the rotation move. Oops.

wheels
07-31-2012, 02:19 PM
We were all wrong on Milton. All of us.

Even the folks who thought the Milton signing was awful were wrong. Because while we all thought he'd be bad, he ultimately turned out to be far worse than we'd ever think.

No way. I had a serious melt down over Milton. I called him a gas can.

Cyclone792
07-31-2012, 02:21 PM
No way. I had a serious melt down over Milton. I called him a gas can.

:lol: A gas can would have been an improvement.

wheels
07-31-2012, 02:22 PM
:lol: A gas can would have been an improvement.

I can't disagree with that.

vaticanplum
07-31-2012, 02:51 PM
I'm with Benihana, Brandon Claussen was the first thing I thought of. I thought he was the real deal. I have no clue what he's doing these days. He could have fixed my car last week and I wouldn't have recognized him.

pedro
07-31-2012, 03:44 PM
Eric Milton is not happy you are talking badly about him.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/baseball/milton.jpg

vaticanplum
07-31-2012, 03:55 PM
Great, pedro, as if Milton didn't haunt my dreams enough already.

pedro
07-31-2012, 04:04 PM
Great, pedro, as if Milton didn't haunt my dreams enough already.

It's still too soon to speak of Brandon Claussen

Tom Servo
07-31-2012, 04:06 PM
That picture of Milton used to be my avatar for a while. There's a haunting sadness in his eyes.

membengal
07-31-2012, 04:12 PM
Echo, whoever said milton was the gateway to the an understanding that saber principles had a legit value. It was for me. He was just so so so bad. And i was warned. And i didnt heed the warnings. And thst failure ended up making me so so so sad.

Sea Ray
07-31-2012, 05:45 PM
Seriously though, I really liked the Graves to the rotation move. Oops.

Who would have known that he couldn't learn a windup?

dougdirt
07-31-2012, 05:51 PM
I was wrong about Hanley Ramirez. I didn't think his power would be much more than 15-20 home runs and therefore thought he was a good, but not elite prospect.

Benihana
07-31-2012, 05:52 PM
I was wrong to underestimate Walt Jocketty.

wolfboy
07-31-2012, 06:04 PM
Doug Capilla. Hey, the Reds traded Rawley Eastwick for him at the deadline; he had to be good!

I thought Bob Boone would be a better manager than McKeon.

That Gary Redus would be a superstar.

That Eric Milton would come around. I started listening to sabre guys because of Milton's failure.

Ditto.

pedro
07-31-2012, 06:11 PM
I was wrong about Hanley Ramirez. I didn't think his power would be much more than 15-20 home runs and therefore thought he was a good, but not elite prospect.


That's all you've got?

That's like saying "I thought this ice cream would be good, but NOOOOO, it's great"

How do you sleep at night with ghosts like this in your closet?

dougdirt
07-31-2012, 06:22 PM
That's all you've got?

That's like saying "I thought this ice cream would be good, but NOOOOO, it's great"

How do you sleep at night with ghosts like this in your closet?

Nope, it is just the one I regret the most.

I sleep with a pillow, the same blanket I have had since I was 3 (it was my dads, made for him by his mother when he was 13) and my two dogs. Sometimes it goes well. Sometimes it doesn't. Depends on how my knee is feeling that night.

pedro
07-31-2012, 06:25 PM
Nope, it is just the one I regret the most.

You regret undervaluing Hanley Ramirez?

Not to be mean but you might want to go outside right now and do something really stupid just for the hell of it. It might be good for you to get past this.

dougdirt
07-31-2012, 06:28 PM
You regret undervaluing Hanley Ramirez?

Not to be mean but you might want to go outside right now and do something really stupid just for the hell of it. It might be good for you to get past this.

Eh, I was 18 at the time. I will survive.

Puffy
07-31-2012, 06:45 PM
I was wrong that time when I thought I could wait until I got home to poop.

Live and learn.

pedro
07-31-2012, 06:50 PM
Eh, I was 18 at the time. I will survive.

Dial it back Doug, you're getting pretty far out on the edge there.

dougdirt
07-31-2012, 06:54 PM
Dial it back Doug, you're getting pretty far out on the edge there.

I probably should. I am scared of heights.

OldRightHander
07-31-2012, 08:30 PM
I was wrong that time when I thought I could wait until I got home to poop.

Live and learn.

Been there, done that. Not proud of it either.

jojo
07-31-2012, 09:52 PM
I probably should. I am scared of heights.

You were wrong about Elvis Andrus too. I think it's a shortstop thing not a height thing.... :p

MikeS21
08-01-2012, 12:20 AM
I was wrong about Brandon Claussen.
I was wrong about Ricardo Aramboles.
I was wrong about Johnny Ruffin.
I was wrong about Ty Howington.

Those damn pitching prospects we kept acquiring in the JimBo years! (Technically Claussen was acquired the same day JimBo was fired)
Don't forget Rob Bell and Chris Gruler. I got suckered in by the hype! :eek:

The Snow Chief
08-01-2012, 02:12 PM
75% of this board was wrong in thinking that Kearns and FeLo should command a high value once they became eligible for arbitration. I have to think WK shopped them and that deal was the best offer he got. That trade turned out to be the ultimate junk for junk deal.

I was wrong on that one in that I thought Bray and Thompson would prove to be more valuable than what they turned out to be.

WebScorpion
08-01-2012, 06:40 PM
I thought those bums they got back in the fall of '71 would never be worth trading Lee May, Tommy Helms, and Jimmy Stewart.

I thought the youth filled World Champion 1990 Reds would be great for many years after.

I thought adding Ken Griffey, Jr. to a young Reds team that finished one game short of the playoffs was a foolproof plan for success.

I thought we'd never be able to sign Votto, Bruce, AND Phillips to long-term contracts at the same time.

Joseph
08-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Jonathan Broxton's twitter account.

vaticanplum
08-01-2012, 07:25 PM
Jonathan Broxton's twitter account.

I'm still getting my mind around the fact that there is enough appetite for information in the world that it occurs to ANYONE IN THE WORLD to create a fake twitter account for *Jonathan Broxton*. And that people then follow it.

The world boggles.

cincrazy
08-01-2012, 07:28 PM
At one point in my life, I thought that Jim Bowden was a good general manager.

'Nuff said.

Always Red
08-01-2012, 07:29 PM
In August of 1982, Duane Walker hit 2 HR off Nolan Freakin Ryan in the same game, during his rookie year.

I thought Duane Walker was going to be the next Roger Maris (at least).

I was wrong.

Scrap Irony
08-01-2012, 07:40 PM
I remember that game.

Loved me some Duane Walker.

Tom Servo
08-01-2012, 07:44 PM
I thought Gary Majewski was a decent pick-up who could at least perform better than the Chris Hammond's, Rick White's, Mike Burns', and Jason Standridge's of the Reds 2006 bullpen.

Nope.

edabbs44
08-01-2012, 07:54 PM
I thought Juan Pierre was going to become a Red this week. Incorrect.

edabbs44
08-01-2012, 07:58 PM
I thought Gary Majewski was a decent pick-up who could at least perform better than the Chris Hammond's, Rick White's, Mike Burns', and Jason Standridge's of the Reds 2006 bullpen.

Nope.

Mike Burns was, I think, the worst pitcher Cincy had in the 2000s. I'd love to hear other opinions but I'm not sure that it will change my mind. Am I forgetting anyone?

Tom Servo
08-01-2012, 08:09 PM
Mike Burns was, I think, the worst pitcher Cincy had in the 2000s. I'd love to hear other opinions but I'm not sure that it will change my mind. Am I forgetting anyone?
Phil Dumatrait was as bad as anybody I can ever remember pitching. In 6 starts, he pitched only 18 innings and gave up 30 runs. :barf:

Revering4Blue
08-01-2012, 08:22 PM
Mike Burns was, I think, the worst pitcher Cincy had in the 2000s. I'd love to hear other opinions but I'm not sure that it will change my mind. Am I forgetting anyone?

Jeff Austin.

Poor guy.

edabbs44
08-01-2012, 09:08 PM
All excellent candidates. Burnsy had 36 base runners in 13 innings. I didn't remember how bad Dumatrait was. Austin was also awful.

redsmetz
08-01-2012, 09:27 PM
In 1970, I predicted that Johnny Bench would break Babe Ruth's home run record. He hit 45.

Benihana
08-01-2012, 11:08 PM
Mike Burns was, I think, the worst pitcher Cincy had in the 2000s. I'd love to hear other opinions but I'm not sure that it will change my mind. Am I forgetting anyone?

No. Dave Williams. The guy they got for Sean Casey. I think he single-handedly sealed the fate of DanO.

As bad of a GM as Bowden was, DanO was worse. They had some good drafts under him, but man he was BAD.

reds44
08-02-2012, 12:08 AM
I thought Chris Heisey was better than Ryan Ludwick. I was wrong.
I was also convinced Jay Bruce would end up playing CF after the deadline. Wrong again.

Sea Ray
08-02-2012, 12:22 AM
I slammed the Reds bench earlier in the year and they've proved me wrong. They've weathered losing guys like Stubbs, Votto, and Phillips and haven't missed a beat. Guys like Ludwick, Frazier and most recently Xavier Paul have made significant contributions. Kudos to them...

yab1112
08-02-2012, 12:48 AM
I was wrong about the future value of an Austin Kearns rookie card.

VR
08-02-2012, 01:19 AM
After blowing up AAA, Alan Knicely was going to have comparisons to Bench. Fail.

WVRedsFan
08-02-2012, 01:23 AM
I've been wrong all my life. Here's some examples:

1. I was wrong about Dusty Baker. He somehow just wins
2. I was wrong about Zach Cozart. He has a lot to learn
3. I was wrong about Jay Bruce. He is human
4. I was wrong about Mike Leake. He still has a long way to go.
5. I was wrong about not trusting Chappy on consecutive days. Like tonight.

I'm just wrong...

WVRedsFan
08-02-2012, 01:25 AM
At one point in my life, I thought that Jim Bowden was a good general manager.

'Nuff said.

And (maybe not you, but me) that Marge was a good owner. I am so sorry.

gonelong
08-02-2012, 01:32 AM
I didn't realize Patrick Swayze contributed to the sound track of Dirty Dancing. I realized tonight that I was so very, very wrong. Sorry PZ, all these years I wasn't giving your your due.

GL

/Eddie Milner ... probably a perennial All Star if people could just appreciate his game.

gilpdawg
08-02-2012, 03:54 AM
I'm with Benihana, Brandon Claussen was the first thing I thought of. I thought he was the real deal. I have no clue what he's doing these days. He could have fixed my car last week and I wouldn't have recognized him.

To be fair, I think it was injuries that derailed Claussen, not lack of talent.

DGullett35
08-02-2012, 04:49 AM
I was wrong about Chris Heisey. I thought he would have a monster year and be the starting LF. I also was wrong about Miguel Cairo. I figured he'd still be the super sub he has been for the last 2 years. And finally I was wrong about Mes(at least so far) I thought hed win the ROY in a landslide and hit 25 HR for us. Hes still got time but I dont think he can achieve the numbers I was expecting.

KittyDuran
08-02-2012, 06:23 AM
I thought those bums they got back in the fall of '71 would never be worth trading Lee May, Tommy Helms, and Jimmy Stewart.

I thought the youth filled World Champion 1990 Reds would be great for many years after.

I thought adding Ken Griffey, Jr. to a young Reds team that finished one game short of the playoffs was a foolproof plan for success.

I thought we'd never be able to sign Votto, Bruce, AND Phillips to long-term contracts at the same time.

Pretty much all mine as well plus countless minor leaguers that didn't pan out. :(

757690
08-02-2012, 06:40 AM
I thought Men At Work would have a longer career than Flock of Seaguls... I think I was wrong about that, although, it's kinda hard to know for sure.

Raisor
08-02-2012, 07:23 AM
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was just in Canada.

Vottomatic
08-02-2012, 08:43 AM
I was wrong about Ludwick. Gotta give the guy props. Seems like he's having a career type season. I hope it continues when Joey gets back. Rolen was 0-2 last night with 2 walks, but has been hitting over .300 since the AS Break. I would love to see the offense start clicking on all cylinders from top to bottom heading into September and postseason. And love to see our pitching continue to be good.

Crossing my fingers that it's all coming together.

Props to Ludwick.

Vottomatic
08-02-2012, 08:44 AM
I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was just in Canada.

I thought I was wrong once, but it turned out I was just in Cleveland. :D

OldRightHander
08-02-2012, 08:55 AM
I think I may have bought into the "building a winner for the new ballpark opening in '03" hype. That turned out well.

redsmetz
08-02-2012, 09:03 AM
No. Dave Williams. The guy they got for Sean Casey. I think he single-handedly sealed the fate of DanO.

As bad of a GM as Bowden was, DanO was worse. They had some good drafts under him, but man he was BAD.

I knew Casey's stock had fallen considerably, but when the guy you're traded for is shocked that it was a straight up deal, you know it's a terribly poor transaction. It still dismays me.

Sea Ray
08-02-2012, 09:40 AM
No. Dave Williams. The guy they got for Sean Casey. I think he single-handedly sealed the fate of DanO.

As bad of a GM as Bowden was, DanO was worse. They had some good drafts under him, but man he was BAD.

Because of those drafts, DanO was much better than Bowden. I'd argue the current Reds wouldn't be where they are today without those drafts

Homer Bailey
08-02-2012, 11:07 AM
I never, ever thought Votto would be a Red past 2013. I was wrong.

RichRed
08-02-2012, 11:24 AM
I was ready to cut bait with Ludwick a couple months ago. Thought he looked hopeless at the plate.

_Sir_Charles_
08-02-2012, 11:30 AM
I was ready to cut bait with Ludwick a couple months ago. Thought he looked hopeless at the plate.

You're not alone. *grin*

Benihana
08-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Because of those drafts, DanO was much better than Bowden. I'd argue the current Reds wouldn't be where they are today without those drafts

I don't know- depends how much credit you give to the GM for first round draft picks.

The 2004 draft really only produced Homer Bailey, who was the consensus best HS pitcher in the draft. Taking him at #7 overall isn't exactly a world-beating move. Paul Janish was a nice fringy player they picked up in the 5th round. Other than that, BJ Szymanski was a joke of a 2nd round pick, and other than Craig Tatum for a cup of coffee, no one else even scratched the bigs (I'm not even sure if any of them scratched AAA!)

The 2005 draft produced Jay Bruce, Travis Wood, and Logan Ondrusek. I give the organization a lot of credit for selecting Bruce, especially when some other "experts" were touting other players. This draft is arguably the only good thing DanO ever did in the organization.

At least Bowden had *some* success at the big league level (ie 1995 and 1999) and made some acquisitions that worked out reasonably well (ie Brantley, Shaw, Graves, Dmitri, Casey, Konerko, Cameron, Vaughn, Neagle, Guillen). Of course, other than a Canadian catcher, his drafting was atrocious.

Sea Ray
08-02-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't know- depends how much credit you give to the GM for first round draft picks.

The 2004 draft really only produced Homer Bailey, who was the consensus best HS pitcher in the draft. Taking him at #7 overall isn't exactly a world-beating move. Paul Janish was a nice fringy player they picked up in the 5th round. Other than that, BJ Szymanski was a joke of a 2nd round pick, and other than Craig Tatum for a cup of coffee, no one else even scratched the bigs (I'm not even sure if any of them scratched AAA!)

The 2005 draft produced Jay Bruce, Travis Wood, and Logan Ondrusek. I give the organization a lot of credit for selecting Bruce, especially when some other "experts" were touting other players. This draft is arguably the only good thing DanO ever did in the organization.

At least Bowden had *some* success at the big league level (ie 1995 and 1999) and made some acquisitions that worked out reasonably well (ie Brantley, Shaw, Graves, Dmitri, Casey, Konerko, Cameron, Vaughn, Neagle, Guillen). Of course, other than a Canadian catcher, his drafting was atrocious.

What about Johnny Cueto or Mes? Did we get them on DanO's watch?

membengal
08-02-2012, 12:56 PM
The Ryan Ludwick renaissance has been a stunner to me. Not in a million years did I think he still had one of these left in him. Given that I a sad pand that they didn't pursue Carlos Beltran in free agency, that Ludwick's OPS is now pretty much level with Beltran is a genuine delight and massive surprise to me.

Benihana
08-02-2012, 01:01 PM
What about Johnny Cueto or Mes? Did we get them on DanO's watch?

I believe Cueto did sign during O'Brien's reign, so there's that.

The 2006 Draft (which featured Mesoraco, Frazier, Lotzkar and Cozart) occurred under Krivsky's watch in June. O'Brien was fired in January.

Benihana
08-02-2012, 01:03 PM
It's interesting that it always seems in the last 5-7 years the Reds sign one "washed up" veteran right before ST much to the chagrin of RZ. That player usually exceeds EVERYONE'S expectations.

Past examples include:

Ryan Ludwick
Miguel Cairo
Jonny Gomes
Rich Aurillia
Joe Randa
Jeff Conine

who else, I know there have been others...?

Sea Ray
08-02-2012, 01:06 PM
I believe Cueto did sign during O'Brien's reign, so there's that.

The 2006 Draft (which featured Mesoraco, Frazier, Lotzkar and Cozart) occurred under Krivsky's watch in June. O'Brien was fired in January.

You make some good points. My feeling is Bowden had some real nice pieces to trade in order to acquire those guys. He traded the likes of Eric Davis and Paul O'Neill. He also gave away a future Hall of Famer in Trevor Hoffman

redsmetz
08-02-2012, 01:20 PM
I spent some time today looking over the 2012 Bold Predictions thread, just wondering if anyone anticipated how this season has progressed. Interesting read, but I didn't want to pull it forward yet since the protocol the previous season was to revisit it towards the end of the season. Some things are almost prescient and some didn't anticipate injuries (Madson) and trades (Francisco & Janish). Fun read and I thought I'd mention it here for the "wrong" parts. BTW, no one nailed where we are yet, although one person noted we would move into 1st place on August 8th and remain there for good. Let's hope we don't relinquish it at all.

Raisor
08-02-2012, 01:22 PM
I guess I was wrong in thinking most of you had an idea of what you were talking about ;)

Homer Bailey
08-02-2012, 01:25 PM
I spent some time today looking over the 2012 Bold Predictions thread, just wondering if anyone anticipated how this season has progressed. Interesting read, but I didn't want to pull it forward yet since the protocol the previous season was to revisit it towards the end of the season. Some things are almost prescient and some didn't anticipate injuries (Madson) and trades (Francisco & Janish). Fun read and I thought I'd mention it here for the "wrong" parts. BTW, no one nailed where we are yet, although one person noted we would move into 1st place on August 8th and remain there for good. Let's hope we don't relinquish it at all.

I can't find that thread. Do you mind linking it metz? Thanks.

wolfboy
08-02-2012, 01:27 PM
I don't know- depends how much credit you give to the GM for first round draft picks.

The 2004 draft really only produced Homer Bailey, who was the consensus best HS pitcher in the draft. Taking him at #7 overall isn't exactly a world-beating move. Paul Janish was a nice fringy player they picked up in the 5th round. Other than that, BJ Szymanski was a joke of a 2nd round pick, and other than Craig Tatum for a cup of coffee, no one else even scratched the bigs (I'm not even sure if any of them scratched AAA!)

The 2005 draft produced Jay Bruce, Travis Wood, and Logan Ondrusek. I give the organization a lot of credit for selecting Bruce, especially when some other "experts" were touting other players. This draft is arguably the only good thing DanO ever did in the organization.

At least Bowden had *some* success at the big league level (ie 1995 and 1999) and made some acquisitions that worked out reasonably well (ie Brantley, Shaw, Graves, Dmitri, Casey, Konerko, Cameron, Vaughn, Neagle, Guillen). Of course, other than a Canadian catcher, his drafting was atrocious.

One point I'd throw in the mix: bearing fruit from the farm system is not only drafting but also player development. I don't have hard evidence for this but I think player development took a drastic step forward after Bowden left. It was pointed out earlier in this thread that the Bowden regime failed to produce any starting pitcher of note except for maybe Tomko. Doesn't that fail to even meet the "broken clock is right two times a day" minimum criteria?

Homer Bailey
08-02-2012, 01:29 PM
I thought Sir Charles' 102 game prediction was ridiculous. The Reds are on pace to win 98 games. It might not have been as ridiculous as I thought. :thumbup:

_Sir_Charles_
08-02-2012, 06:46 PM
I thought Sir Charles' 102 game prediction was ridiculous. The Reds are on pace to win 98 games. It might not have been as ridiculous as I thought. :thumbup:

Shame on you. I nailed it spot on last year...and you doubt me? Just admit it...I'm flawless. :D

Well, except for every other post. *grin*

I hope my wife doesn't read this one...she may actually go into a seizure from laughing too hard. ;)

Tom Servo
08-23-2012, 02:43 PM
Looking back on some posts from earlier in the year, I was wrong about Jeff Francis. I knew he couldn't strike anybody out and all that but I thought he would be servicable (ie: 4.80 or so ERA) in the back of our or somebody else's rotation. Well he's been pretty horrific back in Colorado, but then again so have most of their pitchers.

kaldaniels
08-23-2012, 02:55 PM
Rolen. I was hoping he would go home for good at the All Star break.

PuffyPig
08-23-2012, 02:57 PM
It's interesting that it always seems in the last 5-7 years the Reds sign one "washed up" veteran right before ST much to the chagrin of RZ. That player usually exceeds EVERYONE'S expectations.

Past examples include:

Ryan Ludwick
Miguel Cairo
Jonny Gomes
Rich Aurillia
Joe Randa
Jeff Conine

who else, I know there have been others...?

Go back some years were we got Billy Hatcher, Benito Santiago and Fernandez during spring training.

Sea Ray
08-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Go back some years were we got Billy Hatcher, Benito Santiago and Fernandez during spring training.

That's great way to get players. They're motivated, experienced and know what's expected of them. The key is to not fall in love with them and give them $$ with a multiyear deal. When the year's over you thank them very much and wish them well in cashing that effort into a big payday with someone else. I'm fine with picking up Ludwick's option but if he declines you say "bye" and move on

mth123
08-23-2012, 09:29 PM
Frazier. I had him pegged as a .750 OPS guy with no defense.

Raisor
08-23-2012, 09:32 PM
I once thought I was wrong. I was wrong about that though.

Wonderful Monds
08-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Frazier. I had him pegged as a .750 OPS guy with no defense.

Same, but I didn't think he would hit even that.

Big Klu
08-23-2012, 10:18 PM
Go back some years were we got Billy Hatcher, Benito Santiago and Fernandez during spring training.

Billy Hatcher was acquired only a few days before Opening Day in 1990, and was immediately installed as the starting LF. Before they traded for him, the Reds were going to go with a platoon of Hal Morris and Rolando Roomes in LF.

I'm not sure, but I think the Pirates traded Hatcher partly because he wasn't going to make the team coming out of Spring Training.

Vottomatic
08-24-2012, 09:47 AM
I once thought I was wrong. I was wrong about that though.

You should have said, "Raisor once thought he was wrong. But Raisor was wrong about that though." (third person) :D

Vottomatic
08-24-2012, 09:48 AM
I'm not alone in admitting I was wrong about Frazier. I thought he'd be a utility guy.

His minor league numbers did not predict how well he is doing.

I love how hard he hits the ball nearly everytime. Even a grounder is a bullet.

Homer Bailey
08-24-2012, 10:42 AM
Wrong is not the word I would use about me being wrong about Frazier. I'd use something much stronger than that.

lollipopcurve
08-24-2012, 11:13 AM
Frazier, and Chapman being able to handle the multiple outings per week as a closer.

WildcatFan
08-24-2012, 11:13 AM
I made fun of Jeff Passan (whom I love) for picking the Nationals to the World Series before the season.

traderumor
08-25-2012, 08:42 PM
Drew Stubbs and Chris Heisey. We need two new OFers for next season.

OldRightHander
08-25-2012, 09:59 PM
I made fun of Jeff Passan (whom I love) for picking the Nationals to the World Series before the season.

I can see them making the NLCS...and losing in six games to the Reds. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd prefer a sweep.

vaticanplum
08-30-2012, 02:46 PM
I just remembered a pretty big one: Cueto.

He and Volquez were exciting up-and-comers around the same time, and I was positive that Volquez would turn out to be the ace and Cueto would be around a #4-type pitcher. I think it's still too early in their careers to guarantee that both of them will always be the type of pitchers they are now, but pretty safe to say I was very wrong on this. I thought Volquez had better stuff with a higher ceiling and that Cueto's build was going to limit him.

Caveman Techie
10-08-2012, 11:30 AM
Ok, digging this up again. I was wrong about Dusty pitching Arroyo in game 2 of the NLDS. I was wrong about Dusty playing Stubbs in the NLDS. Just seems like every decision he is making right now is coming up Aces!

Hoosier Red
10-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Ok, digging this up again. I was wrong about Dusty pitching Arroyo in game 2 of the NLDS. I was wrong about Dusty playing Stubbs in the NLDS. Just seems like every decision he is making right now is coming up Aces!

An important consideration when evaluating managerial critique. The results don't matter. Just because the move "worked out" does not mean it was the correct move. There's no need to do anything as drastic as recognizing we don't know it all just because the manager got lucky that his idiotic moves didn't backfire. After all, who's to say Bailey wouldn't have thrown another no hitter unlike that slacker Arroyo who could only go 7 IP with one hit?

:D:p:D

The Voice of IH
10-08-2012, 11:53 AM
Ok, digging this up again. I was wrong about Dusty pitching Arroyo in game 2 of the NLDS. I was wrong about Dusty playing Stubbs in the NLDS. Just seems like every decision he is making right now is coming up Aces!

I was wrong about Arroyo too.

westofyou
10-08-2012, 11:55 AM
An important consideration when evaluating managerial critique. The results don't matter. Just because the move "worked out" does not mean it was the correct move. There's no need to do anything as drastic as recognizing we don't know it all just because the manager got lucky that his idiotic moves didn't backfire. After all, who's to say Bailey wouldn't have thrown another no hitter unlike that slacker Arroyo who could only go 7 IP with one hit?

:D:p:D

That's too metaphysical

Results = press = contract

Sure they might not work and sure the other choice might have even been better or equal

But results are taking responsibility and not playing the devils advocate card when confronted with poor results

Hoosier Red
10-08-2012, 12:02 PM
Perhaps I WASN'T BLATANT ENOUGH ABOUT BEING SARCASTIC!
:D ;) :D ;) :D

OldRightHander
10-08-2012, 12:40 PM
Perhaps I WASN'T BLATANT ENOUGH ABOUT BEING SARCASTIC!
:D ;) :D ;) :D

I got it pretty quick, but then again, smart:mooner:is my middle name.

RedsMan3203
10-08-2012, 12:41 PM
I was wrong about that sub I just ate... I knew I should have went with the chicken.... :D

Tony Cloninger
10-08-2012, 12:42 PM
I was wrong about this offense being able to turn it on.......just like that. Their AB's have been good to great due to the fact that they look at where they are at....realized they cannot go for homers and adjusted. I wish or hope they continue to swing like this beacue homers are gravy in GABP.

Wrong about Arroyo as well. Pitching in game 2. ...over Bailey.

westofyou
10-08-2012, 12:45 PM
Perhaps I WASN'T BLATANT ENOUGH ABOUT BEING SARCASTIC!
:D ;) :D ;) :D

My Phone must have had the sarcasm filter on... it' much clearer from my PC's browser.

http://preaprez.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/6a00d8341bf80c53ef015390e305b6970b-320wi.jpg

Tony Cloninger
10-08-2012, 12:48 PM
My Phone must have had the sarcasm filter on... it' much clearer from my PC's browser.

http://preaprez.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/6a00d8341bf80c53ef015390e305b6970b-320wi.jpg

Hello WOY. Did that OAK DET game from yesterday remind you of the 1972 series? It did for me. Lots of drama in that series. Joe Coleman's great game. LaGrow and Bert C going at it. Jackson going down....thus giving the Reds Gene Tenace to deal with.

Scrap Irony
10-08-2012, 03:15 PM
That's too metaphysical

Results = press = contract


Isn't baseball results-driven?

I realize he's perhaps not as good as his results have been so far in the playoffs, but Baker's made the "right" decision based on his results, has he not?

westofyou
10-09-2012, 01:53 AM
Hello WOY. Did that OAK DET game from yesterday remind you of the 1972 series? It did for me. Lots of drama in that series. Joe Coleman's great game. LaGrow and Bert C going at it. Jackson going down....thus giving the Reds Gene Tenace to deal with.

Yep, I was at that Coleman game and I also remember the bat throw, was listening to the game on my radio (Ernie Harwell) in the front yard

membengal
05-19-2014, 02:34 PM
Bump.

I was wrong about (or at least didn't need to worry as much about) Billy Hamilton's readiness for the big leagues to start the year. While he has most certainly struggled, I am thrilled to see that after two months he has enough bat and game to make a positive impact on this team, and that it appears to be okay that he didn't get further seasoning at AAA. I am now much more cautiously optimistic about Hamilton going forward than I was two months ago.

Also, this thread goes back to 2009 (and includes the 2012 August bump, when we all were giddy), which makes for fun reading.

RedTeamGo!
05-19-2014, 03:36 PM
I love how a bunch of people in this thread were wrong about Edwin Encarnacion twice. They thought he was going to be good, then accepted he was bad, and now he is good again. baseball!

I have been wrong about:

Joey having another knee surgery
JJ Hoover being competent

NebraskaRed
05-19-2014, 03:41 PM
I was wrong about Bernadina. I was fooled by what he was doing in March.

Rojo
05-19-2014, 04:12 PM
Wrong about Leake. When the Reds picked up a short righty without outstanding stuff, I thought it was waste of an early first round pick.

kbrake
05-19-2014, 04:37 PM
Thought Bernadina would be a very solid bench piece.

Cedric
05-19-2014, 04:46 PM
Thought Leake was a bad pick and I also thought Frazier would be a horrible defensive 3b.

5TimeWSChamps
05-19-2014, 04:50 PM
Thought Leake was a bad pick and I also thought Frazier would be a horrible defensive 3b.

Well, considering we could have taken Mike Trout at 8.... :)

Kingspoint
05-19-2014, 07:30 PM
I was wrong about Heisey's Offensive production. I hoped he would get regular playing time so he could get some timing down during the regular seasons, but I still didn't expect him to have as low of an OPS as he's had the last 13 months.

Always Red
05-19-2014, 08:44 PM
I was wrong about Heisey's Offensive production. I hoped he would get regular playing time so he could get some timing down during the regular seasons, but I still didn't expect him to have as low of an OPS as he's had the last 13 months.

I've been wrong about Heisey too, and his new Eric Davis swing. He just looks like such a hitter at the plate, it reminds me of my so very wrong opinions of Duane Walker.

The Operator
05-19-2014, 09:28 PM
I was wrong not to ban Raisor when I had the chance.

I have no doubt that future generations will look back and condemn me for such a gross malfeasance.

Benihana
05-19-2014, 09:28 PM
I much preferred Andrew Miller and Tyler Matzek to Drew Stubbs and Mike Leake, respectively. I've got a thing for high upside lefties.

I also thought Cameron Maybin would be better than Jay Bruce. Turns out the real gem in that draft was neither of them, but instead the third HS OF drafted - Andrew McCutchen.

I wanted Rick Porcello instead of Devin Mesoraco, and Daniel Norris instead of Robert Stephenson.

With the possible exception of 2012 (Giolito over Travieso), the Reds have significantly outdrafted me in the first round since Chris Buckley took over. It's the later rounds where I've scored some on them.

Raisor
05-19-2014, 09:30 PM
I was wrong not to ban Raisor when I had the chance.

I have no doubt that future generations will look back and condemn me for such a gross malfeasance.

Teflon Raisor.

jojo
05-19-2014, 11:01 PM
I was wrong that Raisor had 54 Nobel prizes. He has more.

Kingspoint
05-20-2014, 01:35 AM
I've been wrong about Heisey too, and his new Eric Davis swing. He just looks like such a hitter at the plate, it reminds me of my so very wrong opinions of Duane Walker.

Then he comes up and gets three doubles and a walk tonight (but never with men on base).

Always Red
05-20-2014, 04:02 PM
Then he comes up and gets three doubles and a walk tonight (but never with men on base).

Let's me and you complain about him again tonight and see if it works.

That always works on the Bruce and Votto threads.

TRF
05-20-2014, 04:17 PM
I was wrong about... Stubbs, in that I was right about Stubbs.

Chew on that awhile.

Also wrong about.. no. got that right too.

um.

i got nothing.

mdccclxix
05-20-2014, 04:18 PM
Votto for Blanton

Goodnight!

_Sir_Charles_
05-20-2014, 04:42 PM
I was wrong about........Nearly every minor league player in the Reds system for the past 5-10 years.

Hey, at least I'm consistent. (And I STILL have high hopes for Torreyes even if he IS with the dreaded Lastros now)

Rantly
05-20-2014, 04:47 PM
Then he comes up and gets three doubles and a walk tonight (but never with men on base).

Makes for a great OPS though so fantastic night right?
I'm trying to learn RBIs are not important from most of you on the board

Raisor
05-20-2014, 05:00 PM
I'm trying to learn RBIs are not important from most of you on the board

Driving in runs is absolutely important. Using RBI to determine a player's worth is not.

cincrazy
05-20-2014, 05:22 PM
I was wrong for loving the Sean Marshall trade.

I was wrong in thinking that Dusty Baker was an exceptionally silly game-manager, when in reality almost every other manager in baseball uses the same tactics.

I was wrong in thinking Cueto wouldn't be the same pitcher because he'd have to change his delivery to the plate.

5TimeWSChamps
05-20-2014, 05:33 PM
I was wrong in wanting Dusty fired. If I would have known the FO would have done nothing to improve the team, I would have wanted Dusty to manage out his last year

Gainesville Red
05-20-2014, 06:55 PM
I can remember thinking "this guy Luke Hudson, he's gonna be good."

I can't remember why I thought that.

wheels
05-20-2014, 08:35 PM
I was wrong about Cueto twice (I hope).

The first time, I thought trading him (and others) for Erik Bedard was good idea.

I'm nervous mentioning the second time, because it involved his injury history.

I love the sweet dickens out of him, yet I'm always selling him short.

DocRed
05-20-2014, 08:43 PM
If Leake continues to pitch like he has this year I will be happy to say I was dead wrong about him.