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View Full Version : Brad Penny try us on for size?



Crosley68
08-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Penny was just given his release from the Red Sox. Reds sign him for the rest of the year and maybe cincy will grow on him. If he is healthy like he says, a return to the NL might really interest him.

Chip R
08-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Penny was just given his release from the Red Sox. Reds sign him for the rest of the year and maybe cincy will grow on him.


Yeah. Like a wart.

flyer85
08-27-2009, 10:34 AM
Penny wants an easier opportunity than the AL East to try and increase his value in the free agent market (if he wanted to win he would have stayed with Boston).

I would expect the Reds to take a run at him as they will give him an opportunity. I would think that Washington may provide some competition. I would be surprised if he ended up with a contender but it is possible he could end up in St. Louis.

traderumor
08-27-2009, 10:35 AM
Penny wants an easier opportunity than the AL East to try and increase his value in the free agent market (if he wanted to win he would have stayed with Boston).

I would expect the Reds to take a run at him as they will give him an opportunity. I would think that Washington may provide some competition. I would be surprised if he ended up with a contender but it is possible he could end up in St. Louis.Maybe's he's tipping his pitches ;)

flyer85
08-27-2009, 10:37 AM
Maybe's he's tipping his pitches ;)or just escaping the toughest division in baseball. :D

I thought Smoltz was a great idea for the Cards and I expect him to do better than the guys they were running out there at the back of the rotation ... same could be true for Penny.

RedsManRick
08-27-2009, 10:39 AM
I'd love to have him as a power arm out of the bullpen, but he's way too inefficient to make it as a starter anymore. He's a 2 pitch guy anyways. Let him go all out for 30 pitches and he could still be very effective. That said, I think he'll sign somewhere as a starter, perhaps back in LA?

RedLegSuperStar
08-27-2009, 10:42 AM
We need a arm in the rotation and Lehr, Wells, and Bailey are lesser options compared to Penny who would probably only cost the minimum this year. With a healthy rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Penny, Owings.. They might be able focus on offense. I like the idea and at this point what could it hurt?

flyer85
08-27-2009, 10:45 AM
I'd love to have him as a power arm out of the bullpen, but he's way too inefficient to make it as a starter anymore. He's a 2 pitch guy anyways. Let him go all out for 30 pitches and he could still be very effective. That said, I think he'll sign somewhere as a starter, perhaps back in LA?

My take he is that the main thing he is looking for is to increase his value for 2010. For that reason IMO a non-contender is a better fit for two reason
1) more of an opportunity
2) face easier lineups. Generally the contenders will still face the opponents best lineup in September where the non-contenders may play a lot of sub par players(better known as the Reds current lineup) against each other.

St. Louis might once again be a nice fit for a released Boston pitcher.

Crosley68
08-27-2009, 10:47 AM
We need a arm in the rotation and Lehr, Wells, and Bailey are lesser options compared to Penny who would probably only cost the minimum this year. With a healthy rotation of Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Penny, Owings.. They might be able focus on offense. I like the idea and at this point what could it hurt?

I agree. I would rather see Penny for 5 more starts this year that Wells.

Blimpie
08-27-2009, 11:00 AM
My take he is that the main thing he is looking for is to increase his value for 2010. For that reason IMO a non-contender is a better fit for two reason
1) more of an opportunity
2) face easier lineups. Generally the contenders will still face the opponents best lineup in September where the non-contenders may play a lot of sub par players(better known as the Reds current lineup) against each other.

St. Louis might once again be a nice fit for a released Boston pitcher.You beat me to it.

Jpup
08-27-2009, 11:24 AM
LA is my guess.

lollipopcurve
08-27-2009, 11:34 AM
Colorado

penantboundreds
08-27-2009, 11:44 AM
I think he stinks....

and is done.

bucksfan2
08-27-2009, 11:52 AM
Colorado

Colorado would be a train wreck for Penny. I takes pitchers quite a while to get accustomed to pitching in that altitude, picking him up of waiver and starting him right away would be a bad idea.

redsfandan
08-27-2009, 12:10 PM
Colorado


Colorado would be a train wreck for Penny. I takes pitchers quite a while to get accustomed to pitching in that altitude, picking him up of waiver and starting him right away would be a bad idea.

Rockies Interested In Penny By Ben Nicholson-Smith [August 27 at 10:14am CST]

The Rockies have some interest in Brad Penny, who was just released by the Red Sox, according to Troy Renck of the Denver Post. Renck sees indications that the Rockies have a decent shot at signing Penny, who should clear waivers Monday. At that point, Penny would cost the team less than $100k.

The Rockies, who had some interest in Penny over the winter, need pitching depth now that Aaron Cook appears likely to miss at least two more weeks. The club recently stashed Russ Ortiz in Triple A, so he could provide depth if they don't add Penny.

As Buster Olney pointed out this morning, Penny may embrace the chance to compete in the same division as his former team, the NL West-leading Dodgers.

•The Colorado Rockies could use another starter. Not only is Penny affordable, but he's had more success in the NL and it would give him the chance to compete against his former team, the Dodgers. As Olney shows, some bad blood may linger between Penny and the Dodgers.

flyer85
08-27-2009, 12:13 PM
Colorado
why would he want to pitch in Colorado? IMO he wants to shine up his peripheral stats and Coors field is not the best place for that.

BRM
08-27-2009, 12:23 PM
I know Colorado really wants another SP but I can't see Penny doing well there.

redsfandan
08-27-2009, 12:29 PM
It's not like it's the Colorado of a few years ago.

klw
08-27-2009, 12:31 PM
Penny, 31, requested his release with the idea of joining a contender and building his value before he enters the free-agent market this off- season. His logical next step would be to return to the National League, where he had spent his entire career before signing with the Red Sox as a free agent last winter.

Penny would make sense for the Rockies, reuniting with his former Dodgers manager, Jim Tracy, replacing right-hander Josh Fogg in the rotation and moving to the bullpen once Aaron Cook is healthy.

He would make sense as a starter for the Giants, who are using left- hander Joe Martinez as the replacement for the injured Randy Johnson. And he would make sense as a reliever or bullpen for the Marlins, for whom he played from 2000 to '04.

The Rockies, Marlins and Giants all had interest in Penny last off- season before Penny signed a one-year, $5 million contract with the Red Sox. His deal also includes separate $500,000 bonuses for reaching 160, 170, 180 and 190 innings, but those will be voided once he is released.

The Dodgers, too, could use Penny, but it's highly doubtful they would have interest in re-acquiring him. Third-base coach Larry Bowa reacted angrily after Penny told reporters in spring training, "I just feel like nobody had my back there."

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9991806/Penny-should-attract-NL-interest

redsfandan
08-27-2009, 12:32 PM
Marlins Interested In Brad Penny By Ben Nicholson-Smith [August 27 at 11:07am CST]

Like their expansion cousins, the Marlins are interested in adding Brad Penny, according to the Miami Herald. The Marlins will face competition, since the Rockies, White Sox, Rays and Rangers are also "thought to have interest" in the power righty.

However, Buster Olney suggested this morning that Penny probably assured the Red Sox he wouldn't sign with an AL contender. Otherwise, the Red Sox could have kept him around long enough to prevent him from gaining post-season eligibility with an American League rival.
That Penny might've assured the Sox that he wouldn't sign with an AL contender doesn't mean that much but he probably would prefer an NL team.

redsfandan
08-27-2009, 12:38 PM
Jason Jennings was just dfa'd by Texas. He maybe more Cincinnati's speed. :(

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-27-2009, 12:54 PM
why would he want to pitch in Colorado? IMO he wants to shine up his peripheral stats and Coors field is not the best place for that.

Then why would he want to pitch in Great American Small Park?

Broken record: Coors Field 2009 is just not Coors Field 1999, no matter how much some people really want it to be.

flyer85
08-27-2009, 01:01 PM
Then why would he want to pitch in Great American Small Park? it is still the best offensive park in baseball.

This year Coors has a park factor for runs of 1.28 while GABP plays at .976 this year.

VR
08-27-2009, 01:04 PM
Jason Jennings was just dfa'd by Texas. He maybe more Cincinnati's speed. :(

you just made FCB's day

Hollcat
08-27-2009, 02:49 PM
After last nights start by Fogg I'm sure the Rockies will be trying to find another starter before that spot in the rotation comes around again.

BRM
08-27-2009, 02:50 PM
After last nights start by Fogg I'm sure the Rockies will be trying to find another starter before that spot in the rotation comes around again.

As they should.

blumj
08-27-2009, 04:41 PM
That Penny might've assured the Sox that he wouldn't sign with an AL contender doesn't mean that much but he probably would prefer an NL team.
That's pretty funny, as if the Red Sox wouldn't want their offense having to face Penny down the stretch or in the postseason. His biggest weakness is their offense's biggest strength.

LvJ
08-27-2009, 05:32 PM
Jason Jennings was just dfa'd by Texas. He maybe more Cincinnati's speed. :( I'd throw him a minor league contract since we are kind of low on arms right now.

MattyHo4Life
08-27-2009, 08:25 PM
or just escaping the toughest division in baseball. :D

I thought Smoltz was a great idea for the Cards and I expect him to do better than the guys they were running out there at the back of the rotation ... same could be true for Penny.

It would probably be worth it to Brad Pennyto pay the Cardinals to let him pitch for them just so he can work with Dave Duncan. lol

I think the Cardinals are done adding players though. Even though Kyle Lohse is on the DL, they really don't need any more starters. Boggs or Wellemeyer may not be very good as the 5th starter, but the Cardinals have a good division lead. In the playoffs they will only need 3or 4 starters(Carpenter, Wainwright, Piniero, and Lohse/Smoltz). I wouldn't mind seing Penny in St. Louis, but I don't think there is room for him here.

Raisor
08-27-2009, 08:32 PM
it is still the best offensive park in baseball.

This year Coors has a park factor for runs of 1.28 while GABP plays at .976 this year.

The down year on GABP is mostly because the home team can't hit it's way out of a paperbag.

That would depress anyone, including little old ladies and ballpark factors.

nate
08-27-2009, 08:52 PM
The down year on GABP is mostly because the home team can't hit it's way out of a paperbag.

That would depress anyone, including little old ladies and ballpark factors.

And big old ladies.

flyer85
08-27-2009, 09:18 PM
The down year on GABP is mostly because the home team can't hit it's way out of a paperbag.Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road.

Brutus
08-27-2009, 09:51 PM
Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road.

This year is an anomaly for GABP. In each of the past five seasons, it's played as an above-average hitters park and ranked in the upper quadrant of MLB in park factors.

redsfandan
08-28-2009, 02:12 AM
That's pretty funny, as if the Red Sox wouldn't want their offense having to face Penny down the stretch or in the postseason. His biggest weakness is their offense's biggest strength.
So talk to Ben Nicholson-Smith cuz he wrote the article. Or Buster Olney since he suggested in the article that there might be an unspoken agreement. All I did was post the article and say that any agreement like that doesn't mean much imo.

blumj
08-28-2009, 09:10 AM
So talk to Ben Nicholson-Smith cuz he wrote the article. Or Buster Olney since he suggested in the article that there might be an unspoken agreement. All I did was post the article and say that any agreement like that doesn't mean much imo.
Sorry, I probably shouldn't have done that as a reply to what you wrote. I just thought the whole idea seemed funny.

redsfandan
08-28-2009, 02:04 PM
No harm. It is kinda funny not only cuz Penny has stunk this year but also cuz it doesn't matter what unspoken agreements are made when there's money to be made.

cincinnati chili
08-28-2009, 09:59 PM
I have no interest in a guy who would rather be released than pitch in the bullpen on a team with a legit shot to win the world series

Always Red
08-28-2009, 10:35 PM
This year is an anomaly for GABP. In each of the past five seasons, it's played as an above-average hitters park and ranked in the upper quadrant of MLB in park factors.

just maybe because of the hitters that the Reds no longer have, and their own slightly improved pitching?

Brutus
08-28-2009, 10:39 PM
just maybe because of the hitters that the Reds no longer have, and their own slightly improved pitching?

Park factors measure the ratio of runs scored and allowed at home to runs scored and allowed on the road. So if the amounts were being lowered as a whole, it would reflect that in the way the ratio was measured. Therefore, that has little to do with it.

Always Red
08-28-2009, 10:51 PM
Park factors measure the ratio of runs scored and allowed at home to runs scored and allowed on the road. So if the amounts were being lowered as a whole, it would reflect that in the way the ratio was measured. Therefore, that has little to do with it.

Brutus, I am sure that you know more about stats and how this is calculated than I do (and I do trust your judgement on that)- but it just seems counter-intuitive to me to blame the park rather than the rather severe change in the make-up of the team, over the years that GABP has been in use.

Even with the struggles the pitching had in the middle of the season, this is the best the Reds have pitched in some time.

They are 8/16 in runs given up (best pitching/defense in some time)
They are 15/16 in runs scored. (worst offense in some time)

Brutus
08-28-2009, 11:20 PM
Brutus, I am sure that you know more about stats and how this is calculated than I do (and I do trust your judgement on that)- but it just seems counter-intuitive to me to blame the park rather than the rather severe change in the make-up of the team, over the years that GABP has been in use.

Even with the struggles the pitching had in the middle of the season, this is the best the Reds have pitched in some time.

They are 8/16 in runs given up (best pitching/defense in some time)
They are 15/16 in runs scored. (worst offense in some time)

Well, you are correct about the amount of runs that have been scored in Reds' games. It's much less as a whole than in the past.

But park factors (at least the easy version) are measured Runs scored at the home park by both teams divided by No. of games, and that is divided by the the Runs scored at the opponents' parks, divided by the No. of away games.

So if the Reds scored and allow a total of 100 runs in 10 games at GABP, that's 10.0. If they score plus allow 80 runs in 10 games away from GABP, that's 8.0. Their Park Factor would be 1.25 for runs at GABP.

So then let's use another example similar to what you're saying - where the runs go down.

If the Reds score and allow a total of 85 runs in 10 games at GABP in a different season, that's 8.5. If they score & allow 70 in 10 games on the road, that's 7.0. The Park Factor in this example would be 85/70 or 1.21.

As you can see, the total runs in 20 games between the two examples went down 25 runs. But the park factor only went down .04.

It's simply a ratio of the run scoring environment a team plays in at home as compared to when they're on the road.

That's the easy version - the one ESPN and some other sites use. There's some other more complicated versions, but they all measure about the same basic premise.

Always Red
08-28-2009, 11:30 PM
Well, you are correct about the amount of runs that have been scored in Reds' games. It's much less as a whole than in the past.

But park factors (at least the easy version) are measured Runs scored at the home park by both teams divided by No. of games, and that is divided by the the Runs scored at the opponents' parks, divided by the No. of away games.

So if the Reds scored and allow a total of 100 runs in 10 games at GABP, that's 10.0. If they score plus allow 80 runs in 10 games away from GABP, that's 8.0. Their Park Factor would be 1.25 for runs at GABP.

So then let's use another example similar to what you're saying - where the runs go down.

If the Reds score and allow a total of 85 runs in 10 games at GABP in a different season, that's 8.5. If they score & allow 70 in 10 games on the road, that's 7.0. The Park Factor in this example would be 85/70 or 1.21.

As you can see, the total runs in 20 games between the two examples went down 25 runs. But the park factor only went down .04.

It's simply a ratio of the run scoring environment a team plays in at home as compared to when they're on the road.

That's the easy version - the one ESPN and some other sites use. There's some other more complicated versions, but they all measure about the same basic premise.

OK- thanks for the explanation; another way I can rationalize it is that when Arroyo is good, he's really good, and when Arroyo is bad, he's REALLY BAD. :)

Tom Servo
08-31-2009, 05:25 PM
He's going to the Giants.