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westofyou
08-27-2009, 02:06 PM
http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/griffey-moves-past-hometown-00214/

Cincinnati Reds
Griffey moves past hometown
By C. Trent Rosecrans, CNATI.com Posted August 26, 2009 7:01 PM ET


DETROIT -- CNati.com recently caught up with former Red Ken Griffey Jr., who after nine seasons in his hometown of Cincinnati, was traded to the White Sox last season and then signed with the Seattle Mariners during spring training.

I was curious about how he views Cincinnati after leaving, and what follows is the (nearly) unabridged conversation we had before a game last week.

CTR: It's been a little more than a year since you've been gone...
KG: And?

CTR: It seems like it's been even longer than that.
KG: That's because you're in Cincinnati... You've seen how quiet that locker room became.


CTR: Last year I went in there one day and was talking to someone and said, 'I don't know who any of these guys are.' And he said to me, 'Me either.' But yeah, you and Dunn were the problem.
KG: Yeah, we were always the problem. We were the culprits.


CTR: Because once they got rid of you, it's World Series.
KG: That's what they said...


CTR: Was it weird that it ended so abruptly and acrimoniously?
KG: No.

CTR: Was it time?
KG: I didn't even worry about it. They felt they wanted to move me. I told Dusty before the season started that they were going to trade me. He said, 'There's no way.' I told him I was getting traded before the season's over with.

CTR: You knew because of the contract, the option and everything?
KG: Yeah.


CTR: Did you think Dunn was going to get traded?
KG: Yeah, I told (Baker) that too. I've been around this game way too long to not know what's going on.


CTR: It seems like everyone I've talked to seems to say you're enjoying where you are now. Are you enjoying being back in Seattle?
KG: Yeah, it's different.


CTR: How's it different from when you left?
KG: I was that young kid doing on-the-job training, now I'm the veteran who has to give advice.


CTR: But you're not the only one here, I'd think Mike Sweeney helps with that as well...
KG: Yeah, we do a good job of tag-teaming everybody. The biggest thing is coming in here, enjoy yourself, but play hard. It's not just me, it's the whole organization that needed to change and not go through what they went through last year. You hear the things about certain people in the locker room - that wasn't going to happen because I think you know I'm a firm believer in everyone deserves to be in this locker room. Because one person does something different, it doesn't mean you get all over that person. If you do your job perfectly, then you can have a reason, but ain't nobody perfect. So to say that one person divided a locker room, that's your fault.


CTR: It's funny, some people said that about you in Cincinnati
KG: That I was the divider? Yeah. What can I possibly divide? I'm the one trying to get everyone to hang out and go play golf and things like that and be a team. The funny thing is, have you heard a player say something bad about me?


CTR: Only one...
KG: Who?


CTR: Brandon Phillips...
KG: He said something about me?


CTR: Two years ago in Milwaukee, when he said the thing about not wanting to be known as someone who didn't run hard all the time "like other people on this team."
KG: Well, it's a little different. I think he understands now better than anybody that it takes a lot to be the man of the team.


CTR: You got used to it, but you knew that whatever happened in Cincinnati, it was going to be your fault...
KG: Oh yeah...


CTR: Did you find it weird that it fell on Adam, too, and that he was so vilified as well?
KG: Was it weird? No. No. Because they were going to blame somebody. And somebody's going to get to play, I was going to get it...


CTR: You knew you were going to get it because you were expected to bring World Series titles to Cincinnati - Jim Bowden said that off the bat.
KG: The problem that Cincinnati has is that they compare every team to the Big Red Machine and that team will never be duplicated. There will never be a team like that again. For anybody to think that's going to happen in this day and age? It's just never going to happen in Cincinnati. But that's what they have to live on. I had a friend give me a hat, it said, 'My dad played for the Big Red Machine, I'm the engineer of the little Red caboose.' It was a bright red hat, too. In reality, that's what it was. They said some things, that they were going to spend money, they were going to put a team around Barry Larkin and me. Then it was Barry's fault and then Barry left and it was my fault. A couple of years ago, it became Ken and Adam's fault.


CTR: Now it's Dusty's ...
KG: It's Dusty because you can't blame anyone else.


CTR: There are people blaming Walt and Bob.
KG: Nobody said anything about what I did to help that team. I deferred 57 percent of my contract for that team, but it's my fault. But if they look at the actual contract and how I tried to help sign other players by deferring even more money... they don't see that, they just see the bad things or the semi-questionable things I've done. One of them was that I got hurt. But I did it on the field trying to make a play to help the team win.


CTR: It's a place you grew up. Does it hurt...
KG: No.


CTR: Do those eight, nine years change your feelings toward the city at all?
KG: Do I have to answer that?


CTR: You don't have to answer anything you don't want to answer, I'm not going to force you to answer anything
KG: OK, I'd rather defer that.


CTR: It must be odd.
KG: No.


CTR: They always say you can't go home again, but you're doing it a second time.
KG: But it's a little different. You know... on the Cincinnati thing, I live in Florida. I'll leave it that way.


CTR: I saw something on MLB Network the other day and they were showing you at Moeller, and man, did you have a great curl.
KG: Hey, Dad had it, I had to have it. The curl was in then. But I wasn't in the top 10 curls of all-time.


CTR: Deion.
KG: Eric Dickerson.


CTR: Dickerson's was great.
KG: A.C. Green.


CTR: And it didn't even get him laid...
KG: Then you go to the worst curls, Lester Hayes.


CTR: Eriq La Salle in Coming to America.
KG: Yeah, we can go Michael Cage. You can throw out some names. We did it all the time. Who was the best white guy's curls?


CTR: Hal McCoy had it back in the day.
KG: Gary Carter!


CTR: Yeah.
KG: We had to put Deion in a two categories , because he had the best two-sport curl. Then we had the most money in a curl?


CTR: That wasn't Deion?
KG: No, no, no, that was Michael (Jackson). And then we put Michael in the white and black categories. Then we had the best duet curl, which was Ashford and Simpson. The best group curl was a tie between Full Force and Ready for the World. As you can see, we put a lot of thought into this. We were on vacation and we came up with the lists. We had to write the **** down because we were laughing so hard.


CTR: How often you talk to Adam?
KG: We talk to each other all the time. He has a nice game, he hit the home run against Cincinnati, I said, "Nice ho-mer, Ad-am." He texts back, "Thanks Ken."


CTR: They took three-out-of- four from them. There are still people talking about how many wins the Nats have and will Dunn have more homers than they have wins.
KG: Well, that's the line in Vegas, and it's getting close.


CTR: I'll take the Nats. Think about it, the record for losses is what, 120? That's still 42 wins. He hits 40 every year.
KG: He could get hot. If he gets hot...


CTR: No, you know what he does. He hits 40, drives in 100, scores 100, walks 100 - it's what he does.
KG: What's the one thing everyone complained about Adam?


CTR: Defense? Strikeouts? Average with runners in scoring position?
KG: Strikeouts. He also had 100 walks. You don't just have those guys sitting in your minor league system. You just don't have that. That's just the way it is. You just don't have that type of person just sitting there. They found that out this year. Joey's a great guy and you can't say anything bad about him, but he's not the threat Adam is. Those pitchers who are now losing 2-1 games...


CTR: Yeah, poor Harang.
KG: Well, that started last year.


CTR: How much do you watch?
KG: Zero.


CTR: Do you look at the standings?
KG: No. At 4 p.m., we're on the field and it's not like I'm watching them. And then their game's over by the time we start, it's not like I'm going to watch them then.


CTR: When you were deciding between Atlanta and Seattle, how difficult was that and how close were you to going to Atlanta?
KG: Atlanta was an opportunity to be close to home, and I think people understand how I feel about that. The situation that I said I'd like to retire a Mariner, those two things were there and you always tell your kids if you say something, try to live by it. It was tough.


CTR: Has Seattle been what you'd hoped?
KG: Yeah.


CTR: I mean, besides...
KG: My batting average?


CTR: No, I was going to go with the record.
KG: But you know what? The whole organization is moving in the right direction. They tell me I'm a big part of it, but I consider myself a part of the piece that's helping the organization, not that I've done anything I've never done before. They've never asked me to come in here and be the jump-up-and-down-rah-rah guy, they've just told me to be me in the clubhouse and go out and play. That's it. I don't care who you are on this team, you're going to get ragged. You're going to do something in the course of the year that I can pick on.


I've had a few things... our manager decided he wanted professionalism, so he told everyone that they have to wear ties. I put his face on a tie and we all wore it - everyone on the team. It was a situation where I was trying to break the ice. These guys didn't know how I was. They may have thought, "A Hall of Fame-type player, he may come in and demand things." I've never looked at it that way. I just rag everyone. I've got another tie that said I'm the World's Greatest Teammate and had a picture of me. I've got a few other things that are coming out in the next couple of weeks. I've got both of them (pointing toward Ichiro and Kenj Johjima) they're my Japanese connection.


What's up pimp? (toward Ichiro - to which Ichiro responds, "What's up George?" Griffey's full name, of course, is George Kenneth Griffey Jr.)
You can't write this... (and then Griffey tells me his plans to punk his teammates, which are pretty funny)


CTR: Basically, you're having fun.
KG: Yeah, I always have fun. Our third baseman is out after getting hit in the nuts. When he comes back next week, his first at-bat, his theme music is going to be the Nutcracker Suite.


CTR: That's just wrong.
KG: But good.


CTR: Just wrong.
KG: Oh yeah. The thing is, I try to keep everyone loose, like I did in Cincinnati. When your reporters and other people come up to you and say you're doing a great job in here... I've been playing golf with the bullpen, I went to dinner with Ich, I mess with Jo-Jo, I'm always on our starters. I'm just being me. The coaching staff, I get on them too. Especially since Lee and I got drafted the same year, I call him Coach Tinsley. I'll never call him Lee.


CTR: How much longer are you going to do this?
KG: I don't know.


CTR: I mean, you've said you feel like you're starting something. Do you want to stick around to see it out?
KG: Yeah. But, like I said, I've never forced myself on anyone. If they tell me they don't want me anymore, that's fine. I've had a chance to do something I've wanted to do, and that's come back to Seattle. I haven't wavered on that at all. I've gotten a chance to do it and I'm thankful to the organization for giving me a chance to do it. They could have said no. It wasn't owed to me to come here. It wasn't owed to me to have Atlanta offer me a contract. They thought enough of me to think I can help the organization and reached out to me - that means a lot.


The same thing happened in Seattle. A couple of people said, "Ken would be a good fit here."
That's how I look at it. I don't look at it as 28 other teams didn't want me, because I don't know their situations. Sometimes it's just not a fit in other organizations. I was able to come here and help as much as I could. We'll see how it is at the end of the year and we'll go from there. I'm having the time of my life.

Tom Servo
08-27-2009, 02:12 PM
As much of a shame it was that Junior couldn't stay healthy in Cincy, it's just as big a shame that he was treated the way he was by the fans and media.

nate
08-27-2009, 02:35 PM
Thanks for posting that. Nice read!

Bumstead
08-27-2009, 02:47 PM
Thanks for posting! Along with Eric 'the Red' Davis, one of my favorite players!

top6
08-27-2009, 02:54 PM
Someone call the wahhhhhhhhhmbulance. What a whiny crybaby he can be sometimes.

I mean, it wasn't it his fault, necessarily, but he didn't produce here. Was the city supposed to build a statute in his honor because he was so kind as to grace us with his presence (in exchange for millions of dollars of course)?

Nice "get" for C-Trent, though. And a good interview. I'd like to see his web site do well.

flyer85
08-27-2009, 02:56 PM
water under the bridge. It's the past and I think most everyone has already formed their opinions.

Nothing to see here ... move along.

pahster
08-27-2009, 02:58 PM
Someone call the wahhhhhhhhhmbulance. What a whiny crybaby he can be sometimes.

I mean, it wasn't it his fault, necessarily, but he didn't produce here.

.270/.362/.514/.876
122 OPS+

That's what he did as a Red. He produced.

nate
08-27-2009, 03:02 PM
Someone call the wahhhhhhhhhmbulance. What a whiny crybaby he can be sometimes.

I mean, it wasn't it his fault, necessarily, but he didn't produce here. Was the city supposed to build a statute in his honor because he was so kind as to grace us with his presence (in exchange for millions of dollars of course)?

Nice "get" for C-Trent, though. And a good interview. I'd like to see his web site do well.

Although Griffey's gone, the organization that assembled the "success" around him is still here.

Perhaps your ire is misplaced.

RedsManRick
08-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Cincinnati was just a not a good fit for Junior, culturally. Junior is a laid back guy and Cincy is a blue collar town that values hustle and perseverance above all else. It's a shame it didn't work out, but sadly it's not a surprise...

KoryMac5
08-27-2009, 03:06 PM
I don't see anyone whinning here, I see someone honestly answering the questions posed to him. Griffey answered each question posed and didn't pull any punches. People often blame JR. and Dunn for the losing ways that went on here, unfortunately both are gone and the losing still continues. Who's to blame now? Good job by C Trent to ask some tough questions that were interweaved with some humor.

flyer85
08-27-2009, 03:09 PM
Cincinnati was just a not a good fit for Junior, culturally. Junior is a laid back guy and Cincy is a blue collar town that values hustle and perseverance above all else. It's a shame it didn't work out, but sadly it's not a surprise...
and no reason to rehash it all at this point. It didn't go as well as anyone would have liked.

Chip R
08-27-2009, 03:09 PM
CTR: Brandon Phillips...
KG: He said something about me?


CTR: Two years ago in Milwaukee, when he said the thing about not wanting to be known as someone who didn't run hard all the time "like other people on this team."
KG: Well, it's a little different. I think he understands now better than anybody that it takes a lot to be the man of the team.


I thought that was an interesting statement considering Brandon was benched for a game this year for not running hard.

LoganBuck
08-27-2009, 03:17 PM
Cincinnati fans are far too uptight about certain players, and when those players are honest about the disgusting state of the pro franchises, it is considered to be crybaby mantra. Griffey is just being honest, Dunn was honest in interviews about his time here, Corey Dillon and Carl Pickens were world class jerks, but they were honest. The pro teams here are joke, and they have no plan and no direction. As Boomer Esiason just described Carson Palmer's career: "He's a great talent who is going through the Cincinnati Bengals' car wash, and there is no wax."

nate
08-27-2009, 03:17 PM
I thought that was an interesting statement considering Brandon was benched for a game this year for not running hard.

Wind blast.

top6
08-27-2009, 03:32 PM
.270/.362/.514/.876
122 OPS+

That's what he did as a Red. He produced.

When he played, most of the time, he did. He didn't play. Again, not his fault, but that's life.

I just find it pretty classless to insult the fans who paid your salary for years. But that's just me.

KoryMac5
08-27-2009, 04:06 PM
When he played, most of the time, he did. He didn't play. Again, not his fault, but that's life.

I just find it pretty classless to insult the fans who paid your salary for years. But that's just me.

Looked at the interview three times already and didn't see anything he said that I would take as insulting. Care to point out the part that you found insulting?

westofyou
08-27-2009, 04:20 PM
If Cincinnati dumped 1/2 of the "Respect" that Paul O'Neil got/gets on juinor he'd be a happy man, if they had his back like they have Pete Rose's back he'd be a happy man.

That said the man knows how he was treated as Red and he's not afraid to say he wasn't pleased with it.

I see no problem with his being truthful about his feelings, remember he was teh one that was laying on the warning track hthat day hearing the jeers from the "hometown" fans.

And as for Cincinnati being 'Blue Collar" I'd venture to say it's more corportae and white collar than blue collar, from my vantage point at least it's a pretty middle of the road place with more golf shirts than wife beaters.

Unassisted
08-27-2009, 04:27 PM
CTR: Now it's Dusty's ...
KG: It's Dusty because you can't blame anyone else.


CTR: There are people blaming Walt and Bob.
KG: Nobody said anything about what I did to help that team. I deferred 57 percent of my contract for that team, but it's my fault. But if they look at the actual contract and how I tried to help sign other players by deferring even more money... they don't see that, they just see the bad things or the semi-questionable things I've done. One of them was that I got hurt. But I did it on the field trying to make a play to help the team win.Somebody in management got thrown under the bus here. I think it was meant to be Walt and Castellini, but it appears Dusty may be under there, too.

Griffey's wry sense of humor doesn't translate well to print. I can understand why much of this could be taken as whining. I'll just leave it at that.

nate
08-27-2009, 04:28 PM
When he played, most of the time, he did. He didn't play. Again, not his fault, but that's life.

I just find it pretty classless to insult the fans who paid your salary for years. But that's just me.

I find it classless to insult a player when the real problem was the team around him.

But that's just me.

KoryMac5
08-27-2009, 04:33 PM
Somebody in management got thrown under the bus here. I think it was meant to be Walt and Castellini, but it appears Dusty may be under there, too.

Griffey's wry sense of humor doesn't translate well to print. I can understand why much of this could be taken as whining. I'll just leave it at that.

I took that piece as a direct shot at ownership. When JR. got here and deferred a large portion of his contract it was with the promise that ownership would spend money on putting players around Larkin and JR. Unfortunately Linder didn't get the memo from Bowden on that. It's really a nice piece of reporting from C Trent as usually Griffey only wants to discuss his kids these days.

lollipopcurve
08-27-2009, 04:33 PM
CTrent digging for dirt. Hope he washed his fingernails real good before typing that one up, or his keyboard'll be black.

Still, entertaining. Griffey manages to stay above it all, even CTrent's scrounging. Gotta admire that. He knows how to handle the press.

Ltlabner
08-27-2009, 04:42 PM
KG: The problem that Cincinnati has is that they compare every team to the Big Red Machine and that team will never be duplicated. There will never be a team like that again. For anybody to think that's going to happen in this day and age? It's just never going to happen in Cincinnati. But that's what they have to live on.

This statement is so true on many different levels. Good stuff.

Reds1
08-27-2009, 04:48 PM
I think that's tragic. I don't live in cincy. I didnt' realize he was treated so bad. I always loved Griffey. He did take a lot of crap. That's just how it is when you are the star. Thanks for the post. Sad, but interesting.

reds44
08-27-2009, 05:00 PM
Love Junior. Always have, always will. I'm upset he got hurt, not for me, but for himself. Wish his tenure here would have resulted in more games played, more homers, and more wins but he is the reason I became a Reds fan and I'll always have good memories of him.

deltachi8
08-27-2009, 05:04 PM
His opinion on the BRM is spot on. Loved the interview and always will respect Griffey, no matter where he plays.

westofyou
08-27-2009, 05:10 PM
His opinion on the BRM is spot on. Loved the interview and always will respect Griffey, no matter where he plays.

Imagine if in Pittsburgh if all they ever talked about was the Steel Curtain teams? Or if in Dallas all they ever talked about was Roger and Harvey Martin, or if the Dodgers only leaned on the teams from the 60's?

It's hard being a small town and having a great team, ask Oilers fans if they want to forget The Great One and Messier?

It's fleeting for sure, it's to be held close for sure, but if you hold it so close you end up pushing everyone who came after it away.

deltachi8
08-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Imagine if in Pittsburgh if all they ever talked about was the Steel Curtain teams? Or if in Dallas all they ever talked about was Roger and Harvey Martin, or if the Dodgers only leaned on the teams from the 60's?

It's hard being a small town and having a great team, ask Oilers fans if they want to forget The Great One and Messier?

It's fleeting for sure, it's to be held close for sure, but if you hold it so close you end up pushing everyone who came after it away.

Yep.

My wife and I went to Sylvan Lake, Alberta this summer to visit her grandmother. Sylvan Lake sites right between Edmonton and Calgary. Her grandmother is 97, still lives at home and keeps a semi-shrine to Wayne and the Oiler teams of the 80s (along with a few pics of her grandson who reached the AHL).

I use to live in Buffalo and they still speak of the 4 super bowl run as if it were yesterday, and no goal like it was a week ago.

I enjoy looking back at the past, but enjoy looking forward to the furture much more. Sadly, it's so hard to do that as a Reds fan, because every sales pitch for the future has been hallow.

Edskin
08-27-2009, 05:37 PM
I like what Junior IS -- a great baseball player, most likely 100% clean, a good family man, and seemingly a good guy overall.

But his personality just isn't what I prefer from athletes and I think his personality was a bad fit for the situation in Cincy. And yeah, Junior has ALWAYS been a bit whiny-- even in his pre-Cincy days.

He did more or less FORCE a trade to Cincy, so that did put a little extra pressure on him coming off the 1999 season we had.

Bottom line, when a team fails, the head honchos almost always get the brunt of the blame. That includes the ownership, the manager, and the best/highest paid players.

My final take on Junior in Cincy is one of mild disappointment, but overall, total indifference. He didn't help the team get any better and he certainly didn't make them any worse. The organization was too far gone for one "star" to come in and make an effective impact one way or the other.

I'm just not sure why, but neither Junior nor the fans ever seemed to feel comfortable with him here from day one. It was just a bad fit on so many levels.

I harbor zero ill will or resentment towards Junior. I never booed him or disrespected him as a Red and I never became a huge fan of his either. I think that's how a lot of people felt.

OnBaseMachine
08-27-2009, 05:47 PM
I love Griffey. He was one of my favorite players in baseball before he became a Red and remember how excited I was the day the Reds acquired him. Even though the trade didn't work out exactly how everyone pictured it would, I'd still make that trade 100 times out of 100. It's a shame he wasn't treated better by the fans and media in Cincinnati.

top6
08-27-2009, 05:54 PM
Looked at the interview three times already and didn't see anything he said that I would take as insulting. Care to point out the part that you found insulting?

OK.


CTR: Last year I went in there one day and was talking to someone and said, 'I don't know who any of these guys are.' And he said to me, 'Me either.' But yeah, you and Dunn were the problem.
KG: Yeah, we were always the problem. We were the culprits.

I won't quote every time he starts on this "poor me, they blamed me for everything" theme, but this is the first example of it. I find it insulting. Instead of (a) saying nothing (fine) or (b) taking some ownership or responsibility for the success of his team, he suggests, implies and outright says that the fans blamed him when they shouldn't have. Well, he was a leader of the team. Does he have no responsibility for what happened? And who does he think these same people would have worshiped if the team had won?

Not ONCE in this interview does Griffey ever suggest that he was anything but blameless during his entire stay here. Again, I find that insulting.



CTR: You knew you were going to get it because you were expected to bring World Series titles to Cincinnati - Jim Bowden said that off the bat.
KG: The problem that Cincinnati has is that they compare every team to the Big Red Machine and that team will never be duplicated. There will never be a team like that again. For anybody to think that's going to happen in this day and age? It's just never going to happen in Cincinnati.

I find this insulting. What does this even mean? It's not like we had moderate success when Griffey was here, but we poor dumb fans didn't appreciate it because we were pining for the Big Red Machine. The teams Griffey was on - for the most part - always sucked profoundly. The fans didn't like them because they didn't win anything. It doesn't take being the greatest team in baseball to get Cincinnati fans excited about baseball. A little winning will do it. Griffey - again, probably through no fault of his own - couldn't deliver that.

And I also find it generally insulting that he's obviously talking about a small minority of fans, but doesn't acknowledge it. Seriously, what is he so upset about? He got cheered every time he walked to the plate, and half the kids in the park were wearing his jersey. A few people on the 700 WLW talked crap about him, and he probably got yelled at in the outfield by a few morons. Why couldn't he ever learn to let that stuff go?



CTR: Now it's Dusty's ...
KG: It's Dusty because you can't blame anyone else.

I found this insulting. People blame Dusty for being a bad manager because he is a very bad manager. Not because people need someone to blame.


KG: Nobody said anything about what I did to help that team. I deferred 57 percent of my contract for that team, but it's my fault. But if they look at the actual contract and how I tried to help sign other players by deferring even more money... they don't see that, they just see the bad things or the semi-questionable things I've done. One of them was that I got hurt. But I did it on the field trying to make a play to help the team win.

Many people talked about the good things Griffey did while he was here. Not sure anybody talked about them as much as Griffey does, though.


I've had a few things... our manager decided he wanted professionalism, so he told everyone that they have to wear ties. I put his face on a tie and we all wore it - everyone on the team.

OK, this is funny. Nobody ever said the dude isn't funny. Or good at baseball. He is both of those things.


KG: Oh yeah. The thing is, I try to keep everyone loose, like I did in Cincinnati. When your reporters and other people come up to you and say you're doing a great job in here.

I would find it insulting - if I was a sports reporter - that Griffey thinks it's part of their job - or even appropriate - for them to say "you're doing a great job in here." Their job is to ask questions, and at times critical questions, and report to the fans what is going on in the club house or on the field.

And one more thing I thought was weird.

Griffey in 2009:


CTR: They always say you can't go home again, but you're doing it a second time.
KG: But it's a little different. You know... on the Cincinnati thing, I live in Florida. I'll leave it that way.

Griffey in 2000:


''I grew up 45 minutes from Riverfront,'' he said. ''Luckily, I have a navigational device on my car. Fifth Street. Walnut Street. I have no idea. When I get to Pete Rose Way, I know I'm home.''

Whatever.

I actually liked Griffey, and like Griffey, and I agree there were people who were down on him and did blame him for everything. And please don't get me wrong, this organization is a travesty, and Griffey could have been Babe Ruth in his prime and they wouldn't have won anything. His statements here just really annoyed me. I am happy he gets to play in Seattle now, and I think it would probably be best for everyone if he would keep his thoughts on Cincinnati to himself.

Joseph
08-27-2009, 06:52 PM
I've got to say I think you might be as thin-skinned as Griffey is there, top6.

His words were far from insulting, unless you wanted to find something to be insulted about. It's disappointing in many ways that Cincinnati lost its zeal for Junior. He played and got hurt, yet there were many fans and media types who criticized him for it. Just because it wasn't all of them doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Yes he did get the loudest ovation of anyone on the team when he came to bat, but there were a lot of folks who felt like it was his fault we couldn't afford more talent. Look at some of the posts here from those days.

Griffey is a sensitive [overly so sometimes] guy who played all out for the Reds for almost a decade. His crime is that he didn't act like Freel or Pete more than anything else, well that and that giant check he cashed every season.

But I do suppose you are as entitled to feel insulted by his comments as he is to feel disrespected by the media and or fans of Cincinnati.

Dom Heffner
08-28-2009, 12:00 PM
His words were far from insulting, unless you wanted to find something to be insulted about.

I don't think Junior meant to insult anyone here- I think he reminds me of someone who isnt really media savvy.

Some of the things he said sort of struck me the wrong way, though.

He brings up the deferred money, when he once said, "It doesn't matter how much money you make; it's where you feel happy..."

Well if it doesn't matter how much money you made, why does it make a difference how much you deferred? Was it nice to defer the money? Sure, but if you're going to throw it in everybody's face that you did it, it sort of loses its lustre, especially when you said money doesn't matter.

It's as if this excuses him from any criticism. Staying healthy is a skill, and when you miss as much time as he did, sure, people are going to feel cheated. You can't say, "Well I might not have stayed healthy, but I deferred money, so you shouldn't say anything."

To say that the fan base as a whole compares every team to the Big Red Machine is a bit specious- there are people now who are in their 30s that never even saw that team play. I don't compare any team to that team, nor do I think even any kind of measurable minority of Reds fans do.

Sure, people are going to talk about that team and Griffey's father playing on it doesn't help alleviate the pressure for Junior, but to think that people are sitting around lamenting the fact that the 2002 Reds weren't the 1975 Reds is laughable. There have been 50 teams not as good as that team that have won championships. You don't have to be the best ever, just the best that year. In 1990 when the Reds won it all, nobody was saying, "But, yeah, these guys aren't the BRM."

Most fans want the team to win, and when that doesn't happen, the best players get blamed. That isn't Griffey's fault, though he shouldn't be surprised about human nature.

Perhaps when the Lakers lose he blames the 6th man and not Kobe. I really don't know.

But for me, it was the fact that he was rarely in there, and as I said before I think preventing injuries is a skill. Ryan Freel will always be hurt because he has no clue how to play without getting hurt. Griffey was the same way here. Eric Davis, too. If the way you play causes you to miss significant amounts of time, then you need to change the way you play. Not everybody can play in their 30s the way they did when they were 20. Changing the way you play due to your body type or age is a skill that Griffey never caught on to.

One out and a spot on Web Gems is not worth missing 70 games.

In Griffey's defense, his best might not have made a difference. The management here has been profoundly lost for years.

But this doesn't mean that Griffey shouldn't be held partially responsible for being a disappointment.

Unassisted
08-28-2009, 12:11 PM
Incredibly well-stated, Dom. You captured the yin and yang of Griffey's situation perfectly. :thumbup:

kaldaniels
08-28-2009, 12:41 PM
I love C Trent...but it seemed like he was just trying to stir up some controversy there with his questions.

johngalt
08-28-2009, 01:01 PM
CTrent digging for dirt. Hope he washed his fingernails real good before typing that one up, or his keyboard'll be black.

Still, entertaining. Griffey manages to stay above it all, even CTrent's scrounging. Gotta admire that. He knows how to handle the press.

Exactly. This is why I can't stand C Trent. Completely unprofessional journalism on so many levels in here. I half-expected one of his responses to Griffey to be "Yeah, I know dawg."

flyer85
08-28-2009, 01:23 PM
Exactly. This is why I can't stand C Trent. Completely unprofessional journalism on so many levels in here. I half-expected one of his responses to Griffey to be "Yeah, I know dawg."his line of questioning was stirring the pot. IMO there was no reason to go there.

I'm disappointed things turned out the way they did for Jr and the Reds but pointing fingers is rather pointless as IMO it is obvious where the blame really lies.

Mario-Rijo
08-28-2009, 03:05 PM
Incredibly well-stated, Dom. You captured the yin and yang of Griffey's situation perfectly. :thumbup:

Agreed Dom hit it pretty well. I have never compared any Reds team to the BRM and likely never will. And the fact that Jr doesn't understand why the fans were upset with this team shows how little he ever cared about anything other than cashing checks, putting up HR numbers and goofing off with his pals all summer long for 10 years. Sure he would have liked to be part of a winner I don't doubt that for a second but he sure didn't do a whole lot to make that come to fruition himself on or off the field. He may have offered to defer money but apparently he never insisted on it, that tells me how far he was willing to go for the sake of winning.

westofyou
08-28-2009, 03:11 PM
Exactly. This is why I can't stand C Trent. Completely unprofessional journalism on so many levels in here. I half-expected one of his responses to Griffey to be "Yeah, I know dawg."

I always thought that he's a fan of other sports and baseball personalities. I never got an inkling that he was baseball fan, just a baseball player fan.


And the fact that Jr doesn't understand why the fans were upset with this team shows how little he ever cared about anything other than cashing checks, putting up HR numbers and goofing off with his pals all summer long for 10 years.

The man can't win for losing.

KoryMac5
08-28-2009, 04:29 PM
Agreed Dom hit it pretty well. I have never compared any Reds team to the BRM and likely never will. And the fact that Jr doesn't understand why the fans were upset with this team shows how little he ever cared about anything other than cashing checks, putting up HR numbers and goofing off with his pals all summer long for 10 years. Sure he would have liked to be part of a winner I don't doubt that for a second but he sure didn't do a whole lot to make that come to fruition himself on or off the field. He may have offered to defer money but apparently he never insisted on it, that tells me how far he was willing to go for the sake of winning.

Jr. doesn't understand why the fans were upset with this team, c'mon now. I think the point is that a lot of folks frustrations were directed at the wrong folks, mainly Dunn and Jr. Now that those two are gone many look for other targets, Dusty, Votto, Phillips, Bruce etc... If you take a moment and read between the lines in this interview he is really throwing mgmt. and ownership under the bus here. He deferred the money to allow the Reds to have payroll flexibility to build around him and Larkin. Unfortunately for us as fans Linder and Allen took that flexibility and padded their pockets. I can't remember any other acquisitions of note during the Griffey era.

top6
08-28-2009, 04:46 PM
The man can't win for losing.

He could have won by winning, though.

Unassisted
08-28-2009, 04:48 PM
his line of questioning was stirring the pot. IMO there was no reason to go there.
C Trent has more of a need to sensationalize in order to boost his traffic numbers. Unlike the newspaper columnists, because the interest in C Trent's blog postings is measured by clicks, his job absolutely requires him to write things that will cause people to go out of their way to read them. A milquetoast column on how Griffey's loving life in Seattle wouldn't generate 1/10 the hits that this sour grapes piece did.

Imagine how differently each of us would post on RedsZone if our posts were required to get people to read them in order for us to continue being a member here. ;)

Johnny Footstool
08-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Sure he would have liked to be part of a winner I don't doubt that for a second but he sure didn't do a whole lot to make that come to fruition himself on or off the field. He may have offered to defer money but apparently he never insisted on it, that tells me how far he was willing to go for the sake of winning.

He did defer money. A lot of it. And he did so specifically to allow the Reds to spend payroll elsewhere. They didn't do it.

He was betrayed, and I don't have a problem with him letting people know that's how he feels.

Mario-Rijo
08-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Jr. doesn't understand why the fans were upset with this team, c'mon now. I think the point is that a lot of folks frustrations were directed at the wrong folks, mainly Dunn and Jr. Now that those two are gone many look for other targets, Dusty, Votto, Phillips, Bruce etc... If you take a moment and read between the lines in this interview he is really throwing mgmt. and ownership under the bus here. He deferred the money to allow the Reds to have payroll flexibility to build around him and Larkin. Unfortunately for us as fans Linder and Allen took that flexibility and padded their pockets. I can't remember any other acquisitions of note during the Griffey era.

I don't believe that Dunn and Jr are blameless in all of it. I'm not saying they should shoulder most of the blame and I'm not saying they got what they deserved either. They got too much of the blame no doubt about that. And for that I don't mind that Jr has a problem with it, I would. However I never saw Jr react to losing in a constructive manner, off the field. He came off as "well I'm doing my part to the best of my ability, the rest of it is out of my hands". And I happen to believe that if you want to win you are gonna insist something be done about it, something that would actually work. He had enough stature in the game to call out the F.O. and gets some results if they weren't listening behind closed doors to him. It never happened and his claims of offering to defer money just don't cut it, winners don't offer they insist something be done. If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem. The only redeeming things he could have done he didn't do which was being more realistic in his own view of his ever deteriorating game and demanding more out of his teammates. He'd rather be liked, revered & lose than not to & win is my feeling of him. And he couldn't find it in himself to do both or in other words to sacrifice to win.

westofyou
08-28-2009, 05:40 PM
I never saw Jr react to losing in a constructive manner, off the field.


Mostly because you never saw him off the field... but I digress

nate
08-28-2009, 06:12 PM
I don't believe that Dunn and Jr are blameless in all of it. I'm not saying they should shoulder most of the blame and I'm not saying they got what they deserved either. They got too much of the blame no doubt about that. And for that I don't mind that Jr has a problem with it, I would. However I never saw Jr react to losing in a constructive manner, off the field.

Not seeing ≠ didn't occur.

dsmith421
08-28-2009, 06:13 PM
He was betrayed, and I don't have a problem with him letting people know that's how he feels.

Yep. Also, don't forget the idiots who booed and taunted Griffey as he lay on the field with his hamstring ripped away from the bone...at home, and the ever-classy "Home of the Reds" recording promos accusing him of dogging it.

Brutus
08-28-2009, 06:27 PM
I love C Trent...but it seemed like he was just trying to stir up some controversy there with his questions.

So true.

I despised the tone of the interview. There were so many leading questions. So many 'comments' simply to get Junior to say something. It was an extremely unprofessional interview.

I felt Griffey handled it pretty well. He spoke bluntly, but did so without coming across too insulting. Considering the M.O. behind the line of questioning, he held his own.

I do think Griffey took some unfair blame. Dunn too. I think both guys have things that were deserving of criticism, but I also don't think it should be portrayed as they being the reason(s) the Reds were losing. I'm not sure many people even feel that way or have said as much. But it's unfortunate things worked out the way they did. I think people simply had high expectations.

He's got to remember that there was a young, 99-win team when he got there. With his arrival, expectations were (and should have been) sky-high. Maybe the BRM has set unrealistic expectations, but at the time, there was a lot to look forward to. When things didn't work out that way, fans saw his injuries and had to find something to blame. I think, unfortunately, people just naturally look to the highest-paid player. Same thing happens in New York all the time.

TeamBoone
08-28-2009, 09:42 PM
When he played, most of the time, he did. He didn't play. Again, not his fault, but that's life.

I just find it pretty classless to insult the fans who paid your salary for years. But that's just me.

Oh please. The fans insulted him a whole lot more than he ever insulted them, if he ever did.

top6
08-28-2009, 10:35 PM
Oh please. The fans insulted him a whole lot more than he ever insulted them, if he ever did.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Did he not get HUGE OVATIONS EVERY TIME HE WALKED TO THE PLATE?!?!!!??? When was he insulted??? I hope I live to be insulted like him some day.

A few idiots blamed him for everything. They were hardly a majority. They were just the only voices he chose to hear, or chooses to remember.

Brutus
08-28-2009, 10:42 PM
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Did he not get HUGE OVATIONS EVERY TIME HE WALKED TO THE PLATE?!?!!!??? When was he insulted??? I hope I live to be insulted like him some day.

A few idiots blamed him for everything. They were hardly a majority. They were just the only voices he chose to hear, or chooses to remember.

He got a pretty good reception on the whole at games, but he did take a beating on talk shows, angry fan mail, etc. It was not just how he was received at the park, but the entire situation.

Sea Ray
08-29-2009, 12:05 AM
Thanks for posting that. Nice read!

I wouldn't say that. I'd say C Trent really tried to bait him but Jr would have none of it. Kudos to Jr

C Trent is better than that

nate
08-29-2009, 10:56 AM
I wouldn't say that. I'd say C Trent really tried to bait him but Jr would have none of it. Kudos to Jr

C Trent is better than that

Maybe that's the part I liked about it?

StillFunkyB
08-29-2009, 11:34 AM
I wouldn't say that. I'd say C Trent really tried to bait him but Jr would have none of it. Kudos to Jr

C Trent is better than that

Maybe he feels he needs to be more like the other writers out there since he keeps losing his job.

I wish he wouldn't have done an article like that. He should have left out all the sour grapes garbage in the beginning. The rest of the stuff I liked. Typical Junior.

Don't be like Fay, CTR. Don't be like the rest of them.

*BaseClogger*
08-29-2009, 03:48 PM
You guys can read your professional journalism in the newspaper print. I liked this mucky, controversial interview. Thanks for the post! :thumbup:

westofyou
08-29-2009, 03:57 PM
You guys can read your professional journalism in the newspaper print. I liked this mucky, controversial interview. Thanks for the post! :thumbup:

Maybe he can get some B List celebrity to don a bikini for his sites design?

He'd grab some clicks right there.

Booooooooooyaaaaaaaa

*BaseClogger*
08-29-2009, 04:31 PM
Maybe he can get some B List celebrity to don a bikini for his sites design?

He'd grab some clicks right there.

Booooooooooyaaaaaaaa

That would be awesome! :thumbup:

forfreelin04
08-31-2009, 09:49 AM
Maybe he can get some B List celebrity to don a bikini for his sites design?

He'd grab some clicks right there.

Booooooooooyaaaaaaaa


I used to read CTrent every morning when he worked for the Post and 1530 Homer. I find him to be extremely intelligent and probably one of the better sports writers in the city.

That being said, his writing has become progressively worse over the past few months. Maybe its because he writes completely for himself now, but I get tired of the Georgia, Wilco, and Poz shtick. No fault of his own, he writes what he cares about. I just don't like being told the Dawgs are better than the Bucks, Wilco is the best band in the world, and Poz is the greatest.

westofyou
08-31-2009, 10:04 AM
I used to read CTrent every morning when he worked for the Post and 1530 Homer. I find him to be extremely intelligent and probably one of the better sports writers in the city.

That being said, his writing has become progressively worse over the past few months. Maybe its because he writes completely for himself now, but I get tired of the Georgia, Wilco, and Poz shtick. No fault of his own, he writes what he cares about. I just don't like being told the Dawgs are better than the Bucks, Wilco is the best band in the world, and Poz is the greatest.
Well he was a UGA guy and football is all they have there, and Poz is a great writer for sure, he's probably were Neyer was 10 years ago as far as baseball writer fame goes (but writes better prose)

As for Wilco... chances are he's dead on, but I've liked them sin.ce he was in HS so I don't need him telling me anything about them

But opinions are like....

M2
08-31-2009, 10:58 AM
You guys can read your professional journalism in the newspaper print. I liked this mucky, controversial interview. Thanks for the post! :thumbup:

I'm with you. The point of an interview is to get the subject to open up and give candid answers. C. Trent accomplished that quite well. He could have asked stock questions and received canned answers. I suppose that's what passes for professional journalism in what is just about a dead profession.

What we're really reading here is an interview transcription. This is actually how reporters have been getting candid statements from players and public officials and innocent bystanders for more than a century - they have a conversation. It's actually a big part of the profession, a skill that's largely been lost along with the profession itself. C. Trent just peeled back the curtain a bit with the transcript is all.

Anyway, Jr. has the good sense not to like the way he got treated in Cincinnati. It was only a decade ago when current players were recruiting other players to come and join the team. The situation has flipped almost completely since then.

Highlifeman21
08-31-2009, 11:49 AM
I'm with you. The point of an interview is to get the subject to open up and give candid answers. C. Trent accomplished that quite well. He could have asked stock questions and received canned answers. I suppose that's what passes for professional journalism in what is just about a dead profession.

What we're really reading here is an interview transcription. This is actually how reporters have been getting candid statements from players and public officials and innocent bystanders for more than a century - they have a conversation. It's actually a big part of the profession, a skill that's largely been lost along with the profession itself. C. Trent just peeled back the curtain a bit with the transcript is all.

Anyway, Jr. has the good sense not to like the way he got treated in Cincinnati. It was only a decade ago when current players were recruiting other players to come and join the team. The situation has flipped almost completely since then.

Now we have The Dusty recruiting crappy players that played for him on other teams (Patterson), or the FO giving The Dusty crappy players that he can claim he never wanted so he can hide behind the whole "these aren't my guys, this isn't my team" stance.

bucksfan2
08-31-2009, 12:14 PM
Well he was a UGA guy and football is all they have there, and Poz is a great writer for sure, he's probably were Neyer was 10 years ago as far as baseball writer fame goes (but writes better prose)

As for Wilco... chances are he's dead on, but I've liked them sin.ce he was in HS so I don't need him telling me anything about them

But opinions are like....

Unfortunately for C Trent he isn't in SEC country. He is in Big 10, ND, and UC country. Except for the very hardcore college football fans, what happens in Athens, GA really doesn't mean much to people in this market.

Poz may very well be a good writer, but I don't know how many people want to read about the KC Royals. It will be very interesting to see where Poz goes now that he is writing for SI.

Wilco has a very strong following, but it is more of an underground, cult following. I am not a big fan, but that really means nothing. I just feel it is difficult to write about and get people to care about a somewhat underground band.

C Trent is in an interesting place. I think his new site could do a lot of good for sports coverage in this area. I like his blog, and do read it every day, and it is just that blog. If he wants his site to have success he needs to stick to the area sports that people care about. Oh, and he needs to get rid of the negative vibe he has been writing with for the past 6 months or so.

Chip R
08-31-2009, 12:23 PM
Unfortunately for C Trent he isn't in SEC country. He is in Big 10, ND, and UC country. Except for the very hardcore college football fans, what happens in Athens, GA really doesn't mean much to people in this market.

Poz may very well be a good writer, but I don't know how many people want to read about the KC Royals. It will be very interesting to see where Poz goes now that he is writing for SI.

Wilco has a very strong following, but it is more of an underground, cult following. I am not a big fan, but that really means nothing. I just feel it is difficult to write about and get people to care about a somewhat underground band.

C Trent is in an interesting place. I think his new site could do a lot of good for sports coverage in this area. I like his blog, and do read it every day, and it is just that blog. If he wants his site to have success he needs to stick to the area sports that people care about. Oh, and he needs to get rid of the negative vibe he has been writing with for the past 6 months or so.


Be kind of boring if everyone wrote about the Buckeyes or Yankees or the Black Eyed Peas.

WMR
08-31-2009, 01:33 PM
He's an SEC guy? Maybe he's not so bad after all. :D

westofyou
09-01-2009, 05:37 PM
Wilco has a very strong following, but it is more of an underground, cult following. I am not a big fan, but that really means nothing. I just feel it is difficult to write about and get people to care about a somewhat underground band.



Are times getting tough?
Are the roads you travel rough?
Have you had enough of the old?
Tired of being exposed to the cold?
Stare at your stereo
Put on your headphones and pull out your hair, oh, oh, oh, oh

Wilco, Wilco, Wilco will love you, baby

Orenda
08-25-2010, 08:47 PM
http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/griffey-moves-past-hometown-00214/

Cincinnati Reds
Griffey moves past hometown
By C. Trent Rosecrans, CNATI.com Posted August 26, 2009 7:01 PM ET

For some reason watching Votto today made me remember this article. In particular the part about Votto not being able to fill AD's shoes.

Votto will not have near the career Jr. had but his competitiveness and intensity is refreshing.