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11larkin11
08-29-2009, 01:14 AM
I noticed you left Lehr out. I assume he goes back to AAA? The jury's out of him of course, but I think he has some worth. Maybe as a throw in when we make a trade?

I think he starts in AAA, he's a great guy to have around. Injuries will happen, and he will be up. But he is a guy who actually helps the younger guy. I think a majority of Bailey's maturation can be contributed to him. If he shows he doesn't have it, I would have no problem firing Dick Pole on the spot and seeing what Lehr can do, whether it be MLB pitching coach or AAA with Power coming up.

WVRedsFan
08-29-2009, 01:43 AM
I think he starts in AAA, he's a great guy to have around. Injuries will happen, and he will be up. But he is a guy who actually helps the younger guy. I think a majority of Bailey's maturation can be contributed to him. If he shows he doesn't have it, I would have no problem firing Dick Pole on the spot and seeing what Lehr can do, whether it be MLB pitching coach or AAA with Power coming up.

I see what you mean. My only problem is I see more to like with Lehr than with Owings. In fact, I can't see where Owings will ever be more than 5th starter fodder. His bat has cooled off considerably too. Not that that matters anyway. I think he's a guy who should be around (Lehr) in some capacity and maybe the start in AAA and then the promotion when needed is the way to go, I don't know.

For all of the talk about youth here, you still need some guys who know how to do things and have been there. I consider Rolen one of those as well as Lehr and others. I chuckle a little when the folks talk about the potential of all these kids, but they still need an example. I was 23 once--I remember.

Ron Madden
08-29-2009, 05:20 AM
Yeah, like they did for Bronson the other night.

The announcers (not just Chris and George, but the radio guys too) are always raving about how good Cordero is. As most already know, I'm not so sure I agree with that. Yeah, maybe he gets the job done more often than not, but it's very seldom pretty. He doesn't just go out there and put the other team away very often. And to me, that's what a good closer does.


I agree with you TB. I said the same thing a few days ago and was told that I complain too much.

TeamBoone
08-29-2009, 12:53 PM
I agree with you TB. I said the same thing a few days ago and was told that I complain too much.

I've gotten that too. lol

Most people on here know that I'm not thrilled with Cordero and let me know they think I'm nuts because "he has such a great save record". Well, that doesn't make him great any more than a high batting average makes a position player great.

traderumor
08-29-2009, 01:32 PM
I've gotten that too. lol

Most people on here know that I'm not thrilled with Cordero and let me know they think I'm nuts because "he has such a great save record". Well, that doesn't make him great any more than a high batting average makes a position player great.Really? Various people argue his save record to you? I would say Cordero is good because he has rarely left a game he has come into with a lead and left without that lead, esp. if he is not inheriting someone else's mess. It may not be pretty with his nibbling tendencies with two strikes that have his walk rate too high, but he is holding leads, all but a few times in many, many chances this year. Isn't that a reliever's job?

TeamBoone
08-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Really? Various people argue his save record to you? I would say Cordero is good because he has rarely left a game he has come into with a lead and left without that lead, esp. if he is not inheriting someone else's mess. It may not be pretty with his nibbling tendencies with two strikes that have his walk rate too high, but he is holding leads, all but a few times in many, many chances this year. Isn't that a reliever's job?

That's not my stance at all. I'm arguing that he's not a lights out closer as all the announcers and several on this board claim.

Spring~Fields
08-29-2009, 05:00 PM
That's not my stance at all. I'm arguing that he's not a lights out closer as all the announcers and several on this board claim.

I think that the other teams agree with you, otherwise Cordero would have been in higher demand by them. No one seemed to want him, in a baseball world where the Reds seem to promote the idea that they are constrained by money, while they suggest that they have a bevy of young talent.

Sea Ray
08-31-2009, 10:49 AM
George Grande and Chris Welsh discussed the HBP/K on Andre Ethier during the game yesterday (Sunday) and I still don't think they get it. They kept referring to whether the pitch hit the dirt and whether the ump or Corky knew that it hit Ethier.

Well first of all, it doesn't matter if it hit the dirt first or not. If it hits the batter it's a dead ball. Everyone involved had to know it hit Ethier from the way it bounced. If it did not hit the batter it would have gone back to the screen. Insttead it bounced at a crazy angle towards the Dodger dugout.

For the life of me I don't see how the umps missed this easy call and why the Reds didn't argue it.

traderumor
08-31-2009, 01:04 PM
That's not my stance at all. I'm arguing that he's not a lights out closer as all the announcers and several on this board claim.Could that be due to unrealistic expectations that defines a "lights out closer" as one who comes in and consistently gets 1-2-3 clean innings, which seldom happens, even with "lights out closers?" Just watching highlights today, and there is Joe Nathan, one who most consider a "lights out closer" with a bases loaded no out jam that he worked his way out of just yesterday.

Now, I am admittedly cherry picking, but it is an example of the same thing we see from time to time with our closer. We see him from day to day, and just see other closers occasionally or see their stats and assume that they are regularly pitching clean innings. I would hypothesize that 1-2-3 dominating 9th innings happen less often than we think they do. Or we see a Ryan Franklin having a freakish year and make that the standard.

Ron Madden
09-01-2009, 03:26 AM
George Grande and Chris Welsh discussed the HBP/K on Andre Ethier during the game yesterday (Sunday) and I still don't think they get it. They kept referring to whether the pitch hit the dirt and whether the ump or Corky knew that it hit Ethier.

Well first of all, it doesn't matter if it hit the dirt first or not. If it hits the batter it's a dead ball. Everyone involved had to know it hit Ethier from the way it bounced. If it did not hit the batter it would have gone back to the screen. Insttead it bounced at a crazy angle towards the Dodger dugout.

For the life of me I don't see how the umps missed this easy call and why the Reds didn't argue it.

From what I understand the ump ruled the pitch never hit the batter but bounced of the catchers foot instead.

Ron Madden
09-01-2009, 03:31 AM
Could that be due to unrealistic expectations that defines a "lights out closer" as one who comes in and consistently gets 1-2-3 clean innings, which seldom happens, even with "lights out closers?" Just watching highlights today, and there is Joe Nathan, one who most consider a "lights out closer" with a bases loaded no out jam that he worked his way out of just yesterday.

Now, I am admittedly cherry picking, but it is an example of the same thing we see from time to time with our closer. We see him from day to day, and just see other closers occasionally or see their stats and assume that they are regularly pitching clean innings. I would hypothesize that 1-2-3 dominating 9th innings happen less often than we think they do. Or we see a Ryan Franklin having a freakish year and make that the standard.

I know, I don't expect a 1-2-3 inning from a closer every time out. I don't think Team Boone does either.

All we are sayin' is it would be nice to see Cordero do it every now and then.

;)

Sea Ray
09-01-2009, 09:46 AM
From what I understand the ump ruled the pitch never hit the batter but bounced of the catchers foot instead.

If that's the case then why didn't Corky argue?