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mroby85
09-07-2009, 10:42 PM
Just figured I'd go ahead and get it started, what does everyone think?
The media is definitely down on Ohio State after this weekend, and USC looked good. Only time will tell, playing in the horeshoe at night will be completely different for a true freshman QB though, compared to playing at home against San Jose St. That being said, I think USC will win the game, but at the same time, I think it should be a lot better game than everyone seems to be expecting.

Brutus
09-08-2009, 02:05 AM
Logically speaking, I would expect USC to win and not think twice. The only real advantage I see working in Ohio State's favor is the experience factor between the two quarterbacks. I don't believe Barkley will be intimidated, but I do think he'll make some mistakes.

Despite the logic, though, I think Ohio State wins. There's no sane reason to think so, but it's just a gut instinct. I think Terrelle Pryor will show up big time. The big thing for the Buckeyes, though, is their line HAS to block a lot better than it did against Navy. I don't actually think that game as a whole is very indicative of what OSU is or isn't capable of. It was such an isolated type of game that will not be a real factor in how the Buckeyes play this year. But their offensive line did not do well in run blocking. That has to improve if Ohio State is to win this week.

I think Ohio State wins. It will be a great game, I think.

Captain Hook
09-08-2009, 02:05 AM
The media is definitely down on Ohio State after this weekend

Not to make excuses for OSU but Navy did get a couple votes in the USA Today Poll going into the season.That's as many as Tenn. and more then Mich.I'm just saying that they weren't a push over and the Bucks were on the verge of blowing them out in the 4th.Still, I understand why people are down on them.

As far as the game goes.The Bucks are going to have to hold up on D.I don't think they can allow USC to score more the 30 points and have any chance.There will be no shootout if the Trojans Offense gets rolling and don't turn the ball over.It will be a blow out.

The only way I see Ohio State winning the game is if they play good D and control the ball by not turning it over and rushing for 200+ yards with Pryor getting around half that total.

People are going to say that the Buckeyes have to win this game to have a good season.I don't buy that.Sure they would get a lot of the National media off their back and position their selves nicely for another National Championship run but a loss wouldn't be all that devastating imo.This is a very young team with a lot of talent.The goal this year should be another Big 10 title and a BCS bowl win.A loss does nothing to hurt the chances of accomplishing those goals.Don't get me wrong.I'll be watching the game on the edge of my seat cheering for what would be my teams biggest win in a long time.I just won't be doing it thinking that the season is on the line.

Hoosier Red
09-08-2009, 09:40 AM
I am anything but a tOSU homer, and being an IU fan I could care less about the rest of the Big 10,(the heck with conference pride, if I'm miserable I want everyone else to be miserable,) but I think tOSU wins this in a rout say 30-13 or so.

REDblooded
09-08-2009, 10:18 AM
USC by 14+... Ohio State looks a bit soft this season..

traderumor
09-08-2009, 10:43 AM
Seeing as how all there is to go on is USC blows out San Jose St. while OSU nearly shot themselves in the foot, making any conclusions based on that is little more than Mark Mays level analysis.

The questions I have for the Buckeyes have so far been written off as "the O-line couldn't push a smaller Navy front." As I watched replays of the pressure put on by Navy that has everyone assuming it was lack of push, Navy was doing something funky that was landing lineman and backers into the backfield untouched. My untrained eye could not detect what it was, but it was not strength, it was some technique or scheme. It perhaps could have been smaller, quick feet linemen beating the slower fat boys up front, but just as the offense didn't pose a traditional scheme, I'm wondering the same about their defensive fronts. Anyhow, I say all that to say not so fast on writing off the O-line. One of the tough things about using prior games to base predictions in college football is that there are fluke schemes that create strange matchups for some teams. That's my excuse for the close Navy game, plus they clearly have some talent on that team. It wasn't a traditional cupcake opener. Add OSU's youth, and they are clearly still an unknown quantity at this stage.

Ohio State's offense was moving the ball great until Tressel made the questionable move of inserting Bowserman in the first half. That threw off the sync the rest of the game.

The media is predicting an embarrassing blowout from what I've seen. USC's hype didn't hurt them in this game last year, but I think I am expecting a Texas-like game since its at Ohio Stadium. Hopefully, this time they'll pull it out by a nose.

Highlifeman21
09-08-2009, 10:47 AM
I think tOSU wins this game if Tressel isn't Tressel.

His offense is way too vanilla to compete with top programs, given the athletes on his team. He needs to let Pryor control the game, and emphasize his strengths.

I think tOSU's D will be the factor in this, in frustrating the USC Frosh, or allowing him to shine.

If the Frosh shines, then USC wins this big. If Pryor shines, tOSU wins by 10.

That being said, I think we'll see a tOSU victory, 24-14.

KoryMac5
09-08-2009, 11:01 AM
USC by 14 pts. Tressel has to turn Pryor loose and unfortunately he will keep him bottled up in a very predictible offense.

WMR
09-08-2009, 11:04 AM
USC - 35
OSU - 17

It could be closer if Tressel coaches an atypical game.

acredsfan
09-08-2009, 11:51 AM
I'm not an OSU fan, but I don't dislike them either. That being said, there are clearly a lot of "ifs" being thrown out there, and that tells me that even though fans want OSU to win, when you look at it rationally, USC should win this game. Pryor is an effective college QB when he plays well, but he is not a good passer. Tressel knows that, and as a result Pryor has only thrown more than 20 passes in a game twice. That makes the Buckeyes pretty one dimensional. However, Pryor can be a game changer because of his ability to run and make things happen.

Can OSU win? Yes, they are playing at home and that is a huge advantage, plus USC has a rookie starting at QB.

Will OSU win? Probably not, there are just too many questions heading into the game, they'll have to have many things go right to win. I don't think it'll be a blowout, but I don't think OSU can overcome their own flaws to beat USC.

LoganBuck
09-08-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm not an OSU fan, but I don't dislike them either. That being said, there are clearly a lot of "ifs" being thrown out there, and that tells me that even though fans want OSU to win, when you look at it rationally, USC should win this game. Pryor is an effective college QB when he plays well, but he is not a good passer. Tressel knows that, and as a result Pryor has only thrown more than 20 passes in a game twice. That makes the Buckeyes pretty one dimensional. However, Pryor can be a game changer because of his ability to run and make things happen.


Just wanted to address this. Last year Ohio State had a hammer of a running back, and a freshman QB. You don't want that guy throwing a bunch. What I saw Saturday probably has Pete Carroll sitting up straight in the coaches meetings. I only saw three below average passes from Pryor on Saturday, all made on the run. Two were still completed, and the other was the interception that was thrown late, but was still catchable. He threw with his feet set, and he didn't short hop any passes. He was 14-21 and two of those incompletions, were thrown to the Venus De Milo Taurian Washington. He threw one away, one interception, and had a couple broken up. The one thing I really liked from Saturday was the progress that Pryor has shown from last year as a passer.

acredsfan
09-08-2009, 01:59 PM
Just wanted to address this. Last year Ohio State had a hammer of a running back, and a freshman QB. You don't want that guy throwing a bunch. What I saw Saturday probably has Pete Carroll sitting up straight in the coaches meetings. I only saw three below average passes from Pryor on Saturday, all made on the run. Two were still completed, and the other was the interception that was thrown late, but was still catchable. He threw with his feet set, and he didn't short hop any passes. He was 14-21 and two of those incompletions, were thrown to the Venus De Milo Taurian Washington. He threw one away, one interception, and had a couple broken up. The one thing I really liked from Saturday was the progress that Pryor has shown from last year as a passer.He still only threw 21 passes. There is a reason he doesn't throw many passes in a game and I doubt his performance against Navy really worried Carroll any more than he already was. Pryor is a capable passer, but not much else. His game is making things happen with his feet. If Pryor has to throw more than 25 passes, then it will be a long day. Pryor has to show a lot more to be considered a good passer. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to be a great passer because he can do so much more. If the running game is shut down though, it would be tough for OSU to overcome that.

OnBaseMachine
09-08-2009, 02:09 PM
I'm a USC fan but I think OSU wins this game. USC has a true freshman QB making his first career road start, plus their best wide receiver is out. OSU wins by 10. I hope I'm wrong.

LoganBuck
09-08-2009, 02:27 PM
He still only threw 21 passes. There is a reason he doesn't throw many passes in a game and I doubt his performance against Navy really worried Carroll any more than he already was. Pryor is a capable passer, but not much else. His game is making things happen with his feet. If Pryor has to throw more than 25 passes, then it will be a long day. Pryor has to show a lot more to be considered a good passer. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to be a great passer because he can do so much more. If the running game is shut down though, it would be tough for OSU to overcome that.

So if the five passes that Bauserman threw were added to his total, you would think differently? Getting caught up in the number of attempts doesn't really tell the story. Tom Brady was 31 of 56 attempts for 375 yards against Ohio State in 1998. End result OSU 31 Mich 16. Typically you throw more passes when behind in a game. Jim Tressel doesn't pass much when he has a lead. That formula works for him.

Caveat Emperor
09-08-2009, 02:29 PM
I think the two teams, on pure talent, are about even. Both have question marks, both have solid playmakers, both defenses should be very good. Since it's a night game, it negates any advantage OSU might have by USC having to venture out of PST.

The game is a pick 'em. I think Pete Carroll is a vastly superior coach to Jim Tressel -- especially when it comes to making the best use of his playmakers on offense. I think USC has a better defense than OSU, but I can't sit here and think that any true freshman (regardless of how talented he is) will just waltz into Ohio Stadium and set off any fireworks.

USC - 27
OSU - 20

If there's any coach out there that can put a gameplan into place to let a true freshman be successful on the road, it's Pete Carroll. It would not shock me at all if that score was flipped, though.

MWM
09-08-2009, 02:32 PM
Ohio State is going to get walloped. They don't have the D-Line to stop the USC running game. Joe McKnight will start to get Heisman mentions after Saturday. And Tressel will be Tressel with the offense. Frankly, Jim is in way over his head in games like this one and it will show once again.

TeamSelig
09-08-2009, 02:32 PM
My prediction...

USC stomps OSU.

cumberlandreds
09-08-2009, 02:54 PM
Before this past weekend I would have given OSU a good shot at this one. But after what happened I think USC will win. Maybe not a blowout but by about 10 points. I watched USC and that freshman QB doesn't play like a freshman. He will win a Heisman before he's done at USC. And if you are OSU you can't play Navy down to the last minute. Navy is pretty good but if you are OSU you have to put them away by the 2nd half. Especially at home.

Hoosier Red
09-08-2009, 03:07 PM
I watched USC and that freshman QB doesn't play like a freshman. He will win a Heisman before he's done at USC.

"Ron Powlus will win three Heisman Trophies before he's done at Notre Dame."
--Beano Cook

Captain Hook
09-08-2009, 03:13 PM
"Ron Powlus will win three Heisman Trophies before he's done at Notre Dame."
--Beano Cook

The only reason Beano still gets any TV time is purely for comical purposes.It won't be long until we are saying the same thing about Lou Holtz.Actually....

Chip R
09-08-2009, 03:19 PM
It won't be long until we are saying the same thing about Lou Holtz.Actually....


I saw him on that FSU-Miami game last night. My first reaction was, "What on earth did they put on his face?"

Roy Tucker
09-08-2009, 03:26 PM
It should be an interesting game. I thought Pryor showed much improvement as passer in the Navy game.

My guess is that USC wins, but that's because I'm a long-time Buckeye fan and OSU always loses to USC. When the heck is that last time OSU beat USC? Like, 1973?

Scrap Irony
09-08-2009, 03:31 PM
USC's scheme and athletes remind me of 2009 Florida. This year's OSU team isn't yet as good as last year's team.

On the other hand:

USC has more significant injuries, especially at the skill positions. OSU is as healthy as anyone in the country.

On the other hand:

Ohio State couldn't stop Navy. How can they stop the top (or second-best) offense in the country?

On the other hand:

It's not like Navy's easy to prepare for and I'm also guessing Tressel and company didn't want to show anything USC might be able to use.

On the other hand:

Tressel hasn't exactly been lights out if given a lot of time to prepare for an opponent. And Carroll has.

On the other hand:

Terell Pryor has improved. And Tressel may actually let him loose.

On the other hand:

He has no Beanie to back him up. And his interview skills suck. (Not that that has anything to do with anything. But the fact remains.)

On the other hand:

USC's cheerleaders are undeniably hotter.

Final tally: USC, by three cheerleaders.

SeeinRed
09-08-2009, 03:38 PM
So if the five passes that Bauserman threw were added to his total, you would think differently? Getting caught up in the number of attempts doesn't really tell the story. Tom Brady was 31 of 56 attempts for 375 yards against Ohio State in 1998. End result OSU 31 Mich 16. Typically you throw more passes when behind in a game. Jim Tressel doesn't pass much when he has a lead. That formula works for him.


I know you aren't saying Pryor is going to have the passing game of a Tom Brady, but it is important to remember that his game is speed. He is probably going to put up below average passing numbers. Is he a bad passer, probably not. Is he a good passer, definately not right now. He has a long way to go before you can consider his passing a threat. Then again it just has to be good enough so teams can't just guard against his running game.

I highly doubt Pete Carroll is as impressed with Pryors passing game as you are. There are quite a few skeptics out there right now. Its no secret that Pryor missed quite a few open recievers. He just isn't going to scare anyone with his arm right now.

Again, I understand you are saying that it is hard to judge based on the few attempts he has had, but I think there is a little bias in your evaluation of Pryor as well. Only time will tell. He is a talented player though.

RBA
09-08-2009, 04:11 PM
USC 56 stomps OSU 17

OSU falls down to 19 on the top 25.

Captain Hook
09-08-2009, 04:19 PM
He is probably going to put up below average passing numbers. Is he a bad passer, probably not. Is he a good passer, definately not right now.

Even though he threw less then 200 passes last year he led the Big 10 in QB rating.12 TD and 4 INT while completing 60% of his passes are above average numbers imo.I certainly wouldn't say he is great throwing the football and in the pocket he might well be only average to slightly below average.The thing about Pryor is that Ds have to worry about him running as well.Not only that I've herd a few reports that he is much improved at keeping his eyes down field when he starts to scramble.I think that when you consider his average pocket passing abilities and combine that with his ability to make plays on the run most would consider him an above average passer.

Brutus
09-08-2009, 04:20 PM
He still only threw 21 passes. There is a reason he doesn't throw many passes in a game and I doubt his performance against Navy really worried Carroll any more than he already was. Pryor is a capable passer, but not much else. His game is making things happen with his feet. If Pryor has to throw more than 25 passes, then it will be a long day. Pryor has to show a lot more to be considered a good passer. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to be a great passer because he can do so much more. If the running game is shut down though, it would be tough for OSU to overcome that.

Last year, I would agree with you. However... Pryor has made huge strides as a passer this offseason. I was one of his biggest critics last year as a thrower (an apt term). This year though, he's become a passer. His accuracy has improved ten fold - especially on the run. He is a lot more accurate. The other day he still threw a couple of balls higher (or lower) than where they needed to be, but for the most part, he was throwing some good balls.

Pryor is capable of passing Ohio State to victory this year. He will win some games with his arm as much as his feet. He'll still throw some errant passes now and again. He'll still fixate on one or two receivers and throw a pick because of it. His reads and progressions will still have to get better (and they will, as evidenced by the fact he's only been in the program for 13 games). But he's already shown tremendous improvement in just one game from last year.

Even against a team like USC, Pryor will go out there and be able to throw if/when he needs to.

Highlifeman21
09-08-2009, 04:30 PM
USC's scheme and athletes remind me of 2009 Florida. This year's OSU team isn't yet as good as last year's team.

On the other hand:

USC has more significant injuries, especially at the skill positions. OSU is as healthy as anyone in the country.

On the other hand:

Ohio State couldn't stop Navy. How can they stop the top (or second-best) offense in the country?

On the other hand:

It's not like Navy's easy to prepare for and I'm also guessing Tressel and company didn't want to show anything USC might be able to use.

On the other hand:

Tressel hasn't exactly been lights out if given a lot of time to prepare for an opponent. And Carroll has.

On the other hand:

Terell Pryor has improved. And Tressel may actually let him loose.

On the other hand:

He has no Beanie to back him up. And his interview skills suck. (Not that that has anything to do with anything. But the fact remains.)

On the other hand:

USC's cheerleaders are undeniably hotter.

Final tally: USC, by three cheerleaders.

:D

Flawless logic

GAC
09-08-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm a USC fan but I think OSU wins this game. USC has a true freshman QB making his first career road start, plus their best wide receiver is out. OSU wins by 10. I hope I'm wrong.

Being a devout Buckeye fan I hope you're right. But I think you're wrong. :p:

I see the game being a lot closer. Not a blow-out. Home field advantage may factor into that.

But even though it was only the first game of the season, OSU's defense, especially in the LBing corp, worries me. I don't see them stopping USC. Even with a freshman QB. He may be a freshman, but he's one talented kid too, or Carroll wouldn't have him in there IMO.

And OSU's offensive line, so far, has it's woes. That can be corrected simply with more playing time together, but they still concern me.

I foresee it being a somewhat high scoring game, 34-27. The question is? Who will get the 34? ;)

BuckeyeRed27
09-08-2009, 06:16 PM
If USC and OSU both play their best games I believe that USC wins. They have more talent on a position by position break down. However I can't get over the the freshmen QB and the fact that I believe OSU has a large advantage at that position.

I just don't see USC playing mistake free football and in a game like this turnovers are always the difference.

I really hope that OSU can overcome the problems they have had in the past few big games and get the swagger back.

MWM
09-08-2009, 06:42 PM
OSU is one year away. They should be REALLY good next year. The first legit team they've had since the AJ Hawk team that beat ND in the bowl game. That's the best team they had in the Tressel era.

Jerry Narron
09-08-2009, 08:17 PM
It won't be long until we are saying the same thing about Lou Holtz.Actually....

I was listening to Lou Holtz on Saturday and he said that Charlie Weis is the most underated college coach in the country. I nearly fell out of my chair.

cincrazy
09-08-2009, 08:19 PM
OSU is one year away. They should be REALLY good next year. The first legit team they've had since the AJ Hawk team that beat ND in the bowl game. That's the best team they had in the Tressel era.

Agreed. Texas won the national title that year, and that Buckeyes team was a dropped Ryan Hamby pass away from beating them in the Shoe.

*BaseClogger*
09-08-2009, 08:39 PM
That was the most talented Ohio State team, but I'll take the 2002 squad purely for romantic reasons, sir...

DTCromer
09-08-2009, 09:48 PM
The fact that these 2 are both Top 10 teams right now speaks volumes about the depth of teams in Division 1 this year.

OSU always looks like garbage the first game of the year, but this year was an exception in that after watching most of the game, they look less talented than other years they look like garbage after the 1st game. Lamar still can't consistently throw the ball. Why any team wouldn't bring 7 or 8 every play and stack the box, and contain the rushing lanes for Pryor to run is beyond me.

I expect it to be a close game until late. Home field advantage is HUGE in CFB and it amazes me how many people still underrated that aspect of games. But the X-factor, IMO, will be Pete Carroll. IMO, he's a Top 3 coach, if not, THE best coach in CFB. No body seems to mentally prepare a team better for these type of games than he.

Captain Hook
09-08-2009, 10:05 PM
No body seems to mentally prepare a team better for these type of games than he.

Although he sometimes has trouble with those games against middle of the road Pac 10 teams when they are double digit favorites.

cincrazy
09-08-2009, 11:13 PM
That was the most talented Ohio State team, but I'll take the 2002 squad purely for romantic reasons, sir...

Completely agreed. That 2002 team was so damn tough. They weren't pretty, but they got the job done every single time. I don't think Vince Young would move the ball on that defense.

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 01:59 AM
Completely agreed. That 2002 team was so damn tough. They weren't pretty, but they got the job done every single time. I don't think Vince Young would move the ball on that defense.

In my mind it's one of the greatest teams of all time. Not the most talented, but they just took down whatever force challenged them...

Mario-Rijo
09-09-2009, 02:58 AM
Here's the real crime, most everyone is picking USC but if they lose to the Buckeyes then the talk will be "OSU should have won it". :confused: It's a huge game yet damn near meaningless to the Scarlet and Gray, go figure. OTOH if USC wins it they were supposed to yet Barkley will be the next Tebow of college football for 4 years. By beating a relatively inexperienced team "he should beat".

DTCromer
09-09-2009, 11:13 AM
Although he sometimes has trouble with those games against middle of the road Pac 10 teams when they are double digit favorites.

Well, I guess OSU would probably be considered "middle of the road" in the Pac-10.

But then again, I'd rather be embarrassed every year by one of those "middle of the road" teams when no one else watches than every New Years on national tv.

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 12:20 PM
Well, I guess OSU would probably be considered "middle of the road" in the Pac-10.

Say what?

bucksfan2
09-09-2009, 01:57 PM
I expect it to be a close game until late. Home field advantage is HUGE in CFB and it amazes me how many people still underrated that aspect of games. But the X-factor, IMO, will be Pete Carroll. IMO, he's a Top 3 coach, if not, THE best coach in CFB. No body seems to mentally prepare a team better for these type of games than he.

Every year USC loses to a team they shouldn't. He is a very good big game coach, and a heck of a recruiter, but he loses too many games he shouldn't. I don't think coaching swings this game one way or the other. Tressel gets a lot of flack for his style, but if he would have played traditional Tressel ball against Navy OSU wins by 18+ points. As it is, he goes for it, and catches all kind of hell.

I wouldn't underestimate the effect of traveling across 3 time zones and starting you first road game in front of 100,000+ people. Barkley may be good, but he isn't that good.

Pryor is the best player on the field. OSU's OLine has been less than stellar, but Pryor is more dangerous outside the pocket than inside the pocket.

OSU's DLine is one of the best in the country. Don't read too much into the Navy game. It is very difficult to play against a triple option when every play you are getting cut blocked.

IMO this game comes down to OSU's front 7. If they can apply pressure on Barkley he will make mistakes. Pryor for his career has been pretty careful with the ball, which should work in OSU's favor.

WMR
09-09-2009, 02:09 PM
Who "should" USC lose to every year? Exactly, no one. Every loss they/Carrol suffers is "one they should have won."

"Pryor's the best player on the field"???

You must not be very familiar with the SC roster. That's hardly a foregone conclusion.

BuckeyeRed27
09-09-2009, 02:38 PM
Who "should" USC lose to every year? Exactly, no one. Every loss they/Carrol suffers is "one they should have won."

"Pryor's the best player on the field"???

You must not be very familiar with the SC roster. That's hardly a foregone conclusion.

Who's better?
Taylor Mays perhaps, but he doesn't touch the ball every play. Hopefully he doesn't touch the ball at all.

bucksfan2
09-09-2009, 02:44 PM
Who "should" USC lose to every year? Exactly, no one. Every loss they/Carrol suffers is "one they should have won."

"Pryor's the best player on the field"???

You must not be very familiar with the SC roster. That's hardly a foregone conclusion.

Stanford, Oregon St (twice), Oregon, and UCLA. Over the past few years the Pac 10 has been awful. There just hasn't been another team to step up and challenge on the national stage. Cal and Oregon both tried, but they failed when they rose in the rankings.

Im not doubting the talent on USC's team. They just don't have anyone with the talents that Pryor has. Even during last year's blowout, Pryor looked like a gazelle when he was running. Mays is good but he doesn't touch the ball every play. McKnight is also good but he doesn't touch the ball every time.

Caveat Emperor
09-09-2009, 02:51 PM
Stanford, Oregon St (twice), Oregon, and UCLA. Over the past few years the Pac 10 has been awful. There just hasn't been another team to step up and challenge on the national stage. Cal and Oregon both tried, but they failed when they rose in the rankings.

Carroll's USC teams have been guilty of "focus" losses in the past -- where the team just didn't show up to play against an inferior foe that they were (usually) the heavy favorites against. I don't think that's going to be the case in this game. These games are usually where Carroll excels in gameplanning and having his team ready to execute.


I'm not doubting the talent on USC's team. They just don't have anyone with the talents that Pryor has. Even during last year's blowout, Pryor looked like a gazelle when he was running. Mays is good but he doesn't touch the ball every play. McKnight is also good but he doesn't touch the ball every time.

So no one is as talented as Pryor because Pryor is a QB and, by definition, he touches the ball virtually every play?

Sorry, but that's some crap logic. By this, if Troy Polamalu suddenly came back to USC and played this game, he wouldn't be "the most talented player on the field" because he doesn't touch the ball every play.

bucksfan2
09-09-2009, 03:01 PM
Carroll's USC teams have been guilty of "focus" losses in the past -- where the team just didn't show up to play against an inferior foe that they were (usually) the heavy favorites against. I don't think that's going to be the case in this game. These games are usually where Carroll excels in gameplanning and having his team ready to execute

Im not saying that they will lose focus against OSU, it hasn't happened in the past. But Carrol's teams have been guilty of that in the past. They have been guilty of that every season since they lost to Texas, on Carrol's horrible decision. Carrol has done a great job of recruiting and turning USC into a powerhouse. His teams have just lost focus from time to time and dropped a game that should have been close. To me that takes away a little from his coaching prowess.


So no one is as talented as Pryor because Pryor is a QB and, by definition, he touches the ball virtually every play?

Sorry, but that's some crap logic. By this, if Troy Polamalu suddenly came back to USC and played this game, he wouldn't be "the most talented player on the field" because he doesn't touch the ball every play.

Its not really crap logic. College football is a league driven by the QB. It is where a game breaking QB can be the difference in a game. Tim Tebow does it in the SEC and Vince Young did it to USC a couple of years ago. I saw Troy Smith do it numerous of times in his career at OSU. It is just my opinion, but Pryor has that raw ability to take over games. He has that ability to lift his team above the competition. He has that ability to take a busted play and turn it into a TD. He just has that freakish ability. It also helps that every time OSU takes a snap the ball is in his hands.

IslandRed
09-09-2009, 03:11 PM
Every year USC loses to a team they shouldn't. He is a very good big game coach, and a heck of a recruiter, but he loses too many games he shouldn't.

Just my opinion, but you're using the right facts to draw the wrong conclusion. USC usually manages to not show up once a year against a team that has no business being on the same field, but they have been a great big game team. And this is a big game.


Im not doubting the talent on USC's team. They just don't have anyone with the talents that Pryor has. Even during last year's blowout, Pryor looked like a gazelle when he was running. Mays is good but he doesn't touch the ball every play. McKnight is also good but he doesn't touch the ball every time.

Pryor may be an extremely physically gifted quarterback, but that doesn't automatically make him the best player on the field. Yet.

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 03:29 PM
I think bucksfan2 was responded to DTCromer, who if I may paraphrase basically said "Pete Carroll is the best coach in college football and it isn't even close." I have no doubt he realizes USC will show up on Saturday night.

And for the record, I agree with his comments about Pryor. Pryor is the most talented player in the country IMO...

WMR
09-09-2009, 03:30 PM
I think bucksfan2 was responded to DTCromer, who if I may paraphrase basically said "Pete Carroll is the best coach in college football and it isn't even close." I have no doubt he realizes USC will show up on Saturday night.

And for the record, I agree with his comments about Pryor. Pryor is the most talented player in the country IMO...

Now he's not just the most talented player on the field this saturday but the most talented player in the country as well? :lol:

MAYBE he'll show that someday, but he's nowhere close to that right now.

bucksfan2
09-09-2009, 03:32 PM
Just my opinion, but you're using the right facts to draw the wrong conclusion. USC usually manages to not show up once a year against a team that has no business being on the same field, but they have been a great big game team. And this is a big game.

I was more referring to someones assertion that Pete Carroll is a top 3, if not the best coach in the country. To me his unexplainable losses take away some of his luster. His loss in 07 to Stanford is one of the most head scratching loss I have ever seen.

cincrazy
09-09-2009, 03:33 PM
For all of the drooling over Carroll, and the insane amount of talent they've run through that program, they have as many BCS national titles this decade as OSU, which is one. Lets keep that in mind.

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 03:38 PM
Now he's not just the most talented player on the field this saturday but the most talented player in the country as well? :lol:

MAYBE he'll show that someday, but he's nowhere close to that right now.

I'm not saying he is the best player in the country, but most gifted? Yeah, sure, I can back that.

There is a reason why he was considered a once-in-a-decade recruit...

Caveat Emperor
09-09-2009, 03:38 PM
For all of the drooling over Carroll, and the insane amount of talent they've run through that program, they have as many BCS national titles this decade as OSU, which is one. Lets keep that in mind.

I think most college football fans would say 1 1/2.

WMR
09-09-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm not saying he is the best player in the country, but most gifted? Yeah, sure, I can back that.

There is a reason why he was considered a once-in-a-decade recruit...

Okay, so we're talking as-of-yet-unmanifested talent, not "actual, proven on the field talent"?

That seems like a very nebulous claim to make... impossible to prove.

And what does it really mean, anyway? If you haven't shown it consistently on the field then who cares, really?

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2009, 03:43 PM
For all of the drooling over Carroll, and the insane amount of talent they've run through that program, they have as many BCS national titles this decade as OSU, which is one. Lets keep that in mind.

They have two national titles this decade. I don't care what the BcS says. The BCS is crap, IMO.

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Okay, so we're talking as-of-yet-unmanifested talent, not "actual, proven on the field talent"?

That seems like a very nebulous claim to make... impossible to prove.

And what does it really mean, anyway? If you haven't shown it consistently on the field then who cares, really?

Sure. But then again, proving who the best recruits are each offseason is impossible yet Rivals and Scout make millions of dollars off of their rankings...

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 03:49 PM
They have two national titles this decade. I don't care what the BcS says. The BCS is crap, IMO.

So, LSU weren't National Champions?

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2009, 03:50 PM
So, LSU weren't National Champions?

Split champs.

*BaseClogger*
09-09-2009, 03:50 PM
Split champs.

So USC has one National Championship and one Split National Championship?

OnBaseMachine
09-09-2009, 03:55 PM
So USC has one National Championship and one Split National Championship?

It counts as a NC, as it should.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/pac10/southern_california/national_champs.php

bucksfan2
09-09-2009, 04:23 PM
It is amazing how much the public perception of OSU has changed. USC comes into the Shoe, starting a true freshman QB, with injury problems at WR, coming in with a fresh defense, and many people expect USC to pummel OSU.

cincrazy
09-09-2009, 05:11 PM
Well, split champs or not split champs, OSU has been every bit as successful this decade as USC. If either the Florida or LSU game goes their way, they're talked about in the same breath as Florida and USC, instead of being dressed up to look like the second coming of Vanderbilt.

Roy Tucker
09-09-2009, 05:31 PM
It is amazing how much the public perception of OSU has changed. USC comes into the Shoe, starting a true freshman QB, with injury problems at WR, coming in with a fresh defense, and many people expect USC to pummel OSU.


I'm looking more at OSU hasn't beaten USC in 36 years and they've had the Buckeyes' number ever since I can remember (which is a long daggone time).

They'll break the skid someday, but I don't expect it to be Sat. night. I'll be very happy if they do, but I don't think they will.

Chip R
09-09-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm not sure if tOSU can beat U$C but I think Pryor could be the player to watch in this game. If he can establish himself as a threat in the game - especially on the ground - then tOSU can open up other areas of attack. Short passes, running backs, the occasional end-around could put U$C back on their heels. If they haven't been studying film of Oregon's games against U$C for a blueprint on how to beat them, Tressel hasn't done his job. If they make Pryor drop back to pass only letting him run if necessary or hand the ball off to the backs, it's going to be a long night for the Buckeyes. If the defense can get a few stops and get the crowd into the game while Pryor does his thing, tO$U can pull this out. My guess is that Tressel won't let Pryor do his thing and tOSU will wind up losing.

dabvu2498
09-09-2009, 06:07 PM
Well, split champs or not split champs, OSU has been every bit as successful this decade as USC. If either the Florida or LSU game goes their way, they're talked about in the same breath as Florida and USC, instead of being dressed up to look like the second coming of Vanderbilt.

Hey! I resemble that remark!!!

Besides, Vandy has as many bowl victories in the last 4 years as OSU. :D

cincrazy
09-09-2009, 07:00 PM
I'm looking more at OSU hasn't beaten USC in 36 years and they've had the Buckeyes' number ever since I can remember (which is a long daggone time).

They'll break the skid someday, but I don't expect it to be Sat. night. I'll be very happy if they do, but I don't think they will.

Well, the last "36 years" is a bit misleading... it's not exactly a Notre Dame over Navy streak :).

I bet my sweater vest that Ohio State wins this game Saturday night. They're not going to win the national title this year, but they'll beat USC.

LoganBuck
09-09-2009, 09:59 PM
I'm not sure if tOSU can beat U$C but I think Pryor could be the player to watch in this game. If he can establish himself as a threat in the game - especially on the ground - then tOSU can open up other areas of attack. Short passes, running backs, the occasional end-around could put U$C back on their heels. If they haven't been studying film of Oregon's games against U$C for a blueprint on how to beat them, Tressel hasn't done his job. If they make Pryor drop back to pass only letting him run if necessary or hand the ball off to the backs, it's going to be a long night for the Buckeyes. If the defense can get a few stops and get the crowd into the game while Pryor does his thing, tO$U can pull this out. My guess is that Tressel won't let Pryor do his thing and tOSU will wind up losing.

This is my take on the game.

The only glimmer of hope that I see is that Tressel knows that all the skill position talent on offense is super young. I have a feeling that is why they didn't show it against Navy. No Jamaal Berry, or Jordan Hall, granted they are Freshmen, but they didn't play against Navy. Berry is a freaky change of direction speedster, and Hall is another quick little guy, who was Pryor's high school BFF. Duron Carter, and Devier Posey played but didn't really get that much action. USC has very little film on these guys, and every report coming into the game last week was how impressive they all had been all fall. Ray Small and Flash Thomas are still pretty much untapped talents, but have they grown in their ability to actually run routes, and participate in winning football? I know they have redszone plays set up for Stoneburner, and his unique skill set.

This is why I don't know where I stand on this game. Will Tressel allow his young thoroughbreds to run, or will he keep the old draft horses out there? Will the Ohio State line hold up? What kind of defensive alignment will they run out there? Which personnel? I don't think we learned anything useful from that game last week. At least I hope not.

Caseyfan21
09-09-2009, 10:29 PM
I'd say USC by a TD but I sure hope I'm wrong. OSU needs this win bigtime.

Unassisted
09-10-2009, 12:24 PM
The questions I have for the Buckeyes have so far been written off as "the O-line couldn't push a smaller Navy front." As I watched replays of the pressure put on by Navy that has everyone assuming it was lack of push, Navy was doing something funky that was landing lineman and backers into the backfield untouched. My untrained eye could not detect what it was, but it was not strength, it was some technique or scheme. It perhaps could have been smaller, quick feet linemen beating the slower fat boys up front, but just as the offense didn't pose a traditional scheme, I'm wondering the same about their defensive fronts.
Saw this tidbit on The Dispatch web site that might explain the success of the smaller Navy D-linemen.


Larimore cut down

Heacock said defensive tackle Dexter Larimore has been limited in practice this week, but he expects Larimore to play Saturday against Southern California.

The injury is unknown but related to the cut-blocking techniques that the smaller Navy defensive players are known for using.

"Whoo, I got cut, and they were still cutting me," defensive lineman Cameron Heyward said. "They were crawling with us."

traderumor
09-10-2009, 01:51 PM
Saw this tidbit on The Dispatch web site that might explain the success of the smaller Navy D-linemen.The blurb meant offensive line. I'm not saying the D didn't use the same techinque, but Larimore and Haywood are defenders for OSU. I was looking toward D line technique of Navy.

traderumor
09-10-2009, 01:54 PM
I'm looking more at OSU hasn't beaten USC in 36 years and they've had the Buckeyes' number ever since I can remember (which is a long daggone time).

They'll break the skid someday, but I don't expect it to be Sat. night. I'll be very happy if they do, but I don't think they will.What is that, three meetings? Four? I do not get why folks talk in years with non-league opponents. For example, Charles White scoring on a TD in the last seconds of the 1980 Rose Bowl is just irrelevant to "having a team's number," well at least to the one's affecting the outcome of this game.

bucksfan2
09-10-2009, 02:04 PM
What is that, three meetings? Four? I do not get why folks talk in years with non-league opponents. For example, Charles White scoring on a TD in the last seconds of the 1980 Rose Bowl is just irrelevant to "having a team's number," well at least to the one's affecting the outcome of this game.

Other than last year I can't recall the last time USC played OSU. OSU hasn't been to the Rose bowl since 97 and their last meeting against USC was 85. They haven't played enough to legitimize OSU not winning in some 30 odd years.

Danny Serafini
09-10-2009, 02:16 PM
Ohio State hasn't beaten Toledo since 1998. That doesn't bode well for next week.

Roy Tucker
09-10-2009, 02:20 PM
Hey, so I've got as long memory? I was at OSU 1970-74.

USC is bad karma when it comes to Buckeyes. Too many New Year's Days spent watching OSU get their butts beat leaves scars.

The USC Series:

1937 at USC 13, Ohio State 12
1938 USC 14, at Ohio State 7
1941 Ohio State 33, at USC 0
1942 at Ohio State 28, USC 12
1946 Ohio State 21, at USC 0
1947 USC 32, at Ohio State 0
1948 at Ohio State 20, USC 0
1949 Ohio State 13, at USC 13
1954 Ohio State 20, USC 7*
1959 at USC 17, Ohio State 0
1960 at Ohio State 20, USC 0
1963 at USC 32, Ohio State 3
1964 at Ohio State 17, USC 0
1968 Ohio State 27, USC 16*
1972 USC 42, Ohio State 17*
1973 Ohio State 42, USC 21*
1974 USC 18, Ohio State 17*
1979 USC 17, Ohio State 16*
1984 USC 20, Ohio State 17*
1989 at USC 42, Ohio State 3
1990 USC 35, at Ohio State 26
2008 at USC 35, Ohio State 3
*Rose Bowl

RichRed
09-10-2009, 02:22 PM
The 36-year streak covers 6 games. Here's the USC-Ohio St. matchup history.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/ohio_state/opponents_records.php?teamid=3035

EDIT: Thunder stolen by Roy Tucker.

Puffy
09-10-2009, 04:41 PM
This is my take on the game.

The only glimmer of hope that I see is that Tressel knows that all the skill position talent on offense is super young. I have a feeling that is why they didn't show it against Navy. No Jamaal Berry, or Jordan Hall, granted they are Freshmen, but they didn't play against Navy. Berry is a freaky change of direction speedster, and Hall is another quick little guy, who was Pryor's high school BFF. Duron Carter, and Devier Posey played but didn't really get that much action. USC has very little film on these guys, and every report coming into the game last week was how impressive they all had been all fall. Ray Small and Flash Thomas are still pretty much untapped talents, but have they grown in their ability to actually run routes, and participate in winning football? I know they have redszone plays set up for Stoneburner, and his unique skill set.



I cannot imagine not playing freshmen against Navy to allevate first games jitters and then throwing them in their first ever college action in a nationally televised showdown against USC?

No way, no how. If Berry or Hall did not play against Navy then there is no way they can be expected to be a factor against USC in their first ever college game. You don't hide newcomers because then you won't let them settle down jitters.

improbus
09-10-2009, 06:53 PM
OSU's problem is that they have one difference maker on offense and I'm not sure that they have any on defense. Their RB's are slightly better versions of the Maurice Hall/Lydell Ross combo. They're receivers are young and unproven, and their O-line is a well documented group of underachievers. On defense, they don't necessarily have that lock down corner they've had since Antoine Winfield, the D-Line is talented but very inconsistent, and their LB's are unproven. I'm not too sure that they have the horses to beat USC.

Captain Hook
09-10-2009, 08:27 PM
So OSU is 10-12-1 over the years against USC.Might as well talk all-time since the 1990 game means as much as the 1937 game if you want to say they've had our number lately.Last year they kicked the Bucks butt and really that's the only history that matters as far as how history might play into what might happen Sat. night.Hopefully it's revenge and not a repeat.

Captain Hook
09-10-2009, 08:34 PM
I cannot imagine not playing freshmen against Navy to allevate first games jitters and then throwing them in their first ever college action in a nationally televised showdown against USC?

No way, no how. If Berry or Hall did not play against Navy then there is no way they can be expected to be a factor against USC in their first ever college game. You don't hide newcomers because then you won't let them settle down jitters.

I think your right but Tres has done some crazy things in these kind of big games.Remember last year with Pryor and Beockman alternating almost every play at times.We weren't sure that Pryor would even play but he ended up being a big part in that game.You never know what what Tressel is going to do.

LoganBuck
09-10-2009, 10:32 PM
I cannot imagine not playing freshmen against Navy to allevate first games jitters and then throwing them in their first ever college action in a nationally televised showdown against USC?

No way, no how. If Berry or Hall did not play against Navy then there is no way they can be expected to be a factor against USC in their first ever college game. You don't hide newcomers because then you won't let them settle down jitters.

It isn't unprecedented for him to do things like that. Marcus Freeman was supposed to make his debut in the Texas game at home in 2005, as Vince Young's shadow. He hurt his knee late in the week and was never the same player he was coming in. Tressel put Donald Washington out on the field at corner versus Texas in 2006 as a true freshman making his debut. Just saying he has done it before.

bucksfan2
09-11-2009, 08:28 AM
OSU's problem is that they have one difference maker on offense and I'm not sure that they have any on defense. Their RB's are slightly better versions of the Maurice Hall/Lydell Ross combo. They're receivers are young and unproven, and their O-line is a well documented group of underachievers. On defense, they don't necessarily have that lock down corner they've had since Antoine Winfield, the D-Line is talented but very inconsistent, and their LB's are unproven. I'm not too sure that they have the horses to beat USC.

OSU had a handful of game breakers on offense, more so now than in the past few years. Pryor along with Posey and Carter look to possess great play ability. I am also very high on Saine. I think he will see more PT and is dangerous when matched up with a LB. I think this offense has more "special" type players since Ted Ginn's last year. Last season the offense just didn't have those types of players.

Malcolm Jenkins was one hell of a cover corner. I don't know how he rated to Winfield, but he wasn't a slouch. The D is very young, but I think they have the ability to be very good. It seems as if there is more speed on the team this year over last years.

improbus
09-11-2009, 08:00 PM
OSU had a handful of game breakers on offense, more so now than in the past few years. Pryor along with Posey and Carter look to possess great play ability. I am also very high on Saine. I think he will see more PT and is dangerous when matched up with a LB. I think this offense has more "special" type players since Ted Ginn's last year. Last season the offense just didn't have those types of players.

Malcolm Jenkins was one hell of a cover corner. I don't know how he rated to Winfield, but he wasn't a slouch. The D is very young, but I think they have the ability to be very good. It seems as if there is more speed on the team this year over last years.

But, you do have to admit that every one of them is unproven, even Pryor to a certain degree. If he has to throw 25+ times, are Buckeye fans comfortable?

Chip R
09-11-2009, 08:51 PM
They are showing past OSU-USC games on ESPN Classic. I think O.J. is doing analysis on this game. :eek:

Unassisted
09-12-2009, 12:40 AM
They are showing past OSU-USC games on ESPN Classic. I think O.J. is doing analysis on this game. :eek:
I caught about half an hour of the '80 game on a restaurant TV at dinner tonight.

If Art Schlichter couldn't beat USC, what hope does Pryor have? ;)

LoganBuck
09-12-2009, 07:18 AM
I caught about half an hour of the '80 game on a restaurant TV at dinner tonight.

If Art Schlichter couldn't beat USC, what hope does Pryor have? ;)

You wanna bet?:D

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2009, 09:01 PM
It's early but I think Ohio State is going to crush USC tonight. Matt Barkley is going to be a stud but he's too inexperienced for USC to win this game, IMO. OSU looks very good so far.

HeatherC1212
09-12-2009, 09:36 PM
OSU is definitely hanging in there this year and that's good to see from those young guys. I've been watching the UC game (this game is too stressful, LOL ;)) but I keep checking back on things and I'm happy to see that the Bucks are right there. Go Buckeyes!! :D

RBA
09-12-2009, 09:46 PM
USC says thanks for the gimme and looks like the young QB gain a little bit of confidence during that last drive. I look forward to USC taking over in the second half. Sorry OSU fans.

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 09:53 PM
It's early but I think Ohio State is going to crush USC tonight. Matt Barkley is going to be a stud but he's too inexperienced for USC to win this game, IMO. OSU looks very good so far.

Wait until Carroll makes his adjustments for the second half. Game Over. ;)

Of course being tied with them feels like a win at the half. I was shocked, the Buckeyes could stay awake this long.

CrackerJack
09-12-2009, 10:11 PM
Tressel in one of his ridiculously conservative game plans

RBA
09-12-2009, 10:16 PM
OSU has some life. USC coaches look worried.

Chip R
09-12-2009, 10:18 PM
I don't know if Pryor will ever be more than an average QB but I could see him starting on Sunday at RB for some NFL team. Not as a Wildcat guy either. He's got the size, speed and quickness.

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2009, 10:18 PM
USC is playing like crap. OSU has this one wrapped up. Barkley is playing like the true freshman he is and USC is being stubborn with the play calling.

kaldaniels
09-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Tressel in one of his ridiculously conservative game plans

That's a strech.

HeatherC1212
09-12-2009, 10:31 PM
USC is playing like crap. OSU has this one wrapped up. Barkley is playing like the true freshman he is and USC is being stubborn with the play calling.

Stop saying that because I feel like your going to jinx the guys!! :eek: ;)

GO BUCKS!! :D

jimbo
09-12-2009, 10:43 PM
Heron up the middle at least once every series. It's like a wasted down.

So vanilla.

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2009, 10:56 PM
OSU has dominated field position all night.

CrackerJack
09-12-2009, 10:58 PM
Gotta give the Buckeyes big props for their job against the vaunted USC o-line.

jimbo
09-12-2009, 10:59 PM
OSU has dominated field position all night.

Tressel ball.

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Gotta give the Buckeyes big props for their job against the vaunted USC o-line.

Yep. Their D-Line has been tough all night.

USC may lose three, potentially four games this season, IMO. The offense has a long ways to go.

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:01 PM
Yep. Their D-Line has been tough all night.

USC may lose three, potentially four games this season, IMO. The offense has a long ways to go.

How in the devil did either one of these teams get top ten ranking? Shzzzz

jimbo
09-12-2009, 11:07 PM
How in the devil did either one of these teams get top ten ranking? Shzzzz

So if the score was 45-40 you would think otherwise?

CrackerJack
09-12-2009, 11:09 PM
How in the devil did either one of these teams get top ten ranking? Shzzzz

I think they're still top 10 teams at this point, but all of their big playmakers are in the NFL, thus the lack of big, game/momentum changing plays.

WMR
09-12-2009, 11:11 PM
Props to the Buckeye crowd!

WMR
09-12-2009, 11:11 PM
McKnight is going to be a special player.

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:17 PM
So if the score was 45-40 you would think otherwise?

Execution and peformance not the score.

Chip R
09-12-2009, 11:17 PM
Props to the Buckeye crowd!


Yes indeed.

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:18 PM
I think they're still top 10 teams at this point, but all of their big playmakers are in the NFL, thus the lack of big, game/momentum changing plays.

They both have a lot of work to do.

WMR
09-12-2009, 11:21 PM
Heartbreaker coming up.

CrackerJack
09-12-2009, 11:22 PM
They both have a lot of work to do.

It's all relative, #8 vs #3, younger teams. I can't say the game has been sloppy. I think they're both overrated a bit, yes, at this point.

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2009, 11:25 PM
OSU has plenty of time to tie or win this game, especially if USC goes into prevent defense. 1:05 is a ton of time in college football.

CrackerJack
09-12-2009, 11:25 PM
I don't have faith in OSU's O to get a FG with a minute left.

Some really conservative calls by Tressel looks to have hurt him in this one.

CrackerJack
09-12-2009, 11:29 PM
Pryor is a terrible 2 minute QB

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:30 PM
OSU has plenty of time to tie or win this game, especially if USC goes into prevent defense. 1:05 is a ton of time in college football.


;)

WMR
09-12-2009, 11:31 PM
Pryor is a terrible 2 minute QB

He's a freak athlete, but he's got a long way to go in the poise department.

Barkley looked like a vet on that last drive.

RBA
09-12-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm hoping USC maintains their ranking. They looked a little shaky.

OnBaseMachine
09-12-2009, 11:32 PM
USC wins 18-15. I'm very surprised. OSU is a great team, they played an unbelievable game. Great game Buckeyes. That was a great game.

I still think USC loses a couple games this season.

HeatherC1212
09-12-2009, 11:33 PM
People were predicting that USC was going to blow out OSU or vice versa but that didn't happen at all. USC basically saved their behinds by scoring in the last five minutes of the game. This could just have easily been a heartbreaker for them with OSU managing to stop them from scoring and winning by five points. It wasn't a blowout either direction. I'm not disappointed in the Buckeyes, they fought their hearts out tonight, and I think a game like this is going to make them a better team in the long run.

Reds Fanatic
09-12-2009, 11:34 PM
What a heartbreaking loss. Reminded me of the late loss to Texas last year.

GIDP
09-12-2009, 11:35 PM
:bowrofl:

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:37 PM
Tressels field goal designed offense just couldn't get it done tonight.

RBA
09-12-2009, 11:38 PM
Pete Carroll undefeated against Big 10 teams.

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:39 PM
Pete Carroll undefeated against Big 10 teams.

Hasn't USC beaten Ohio State about seven in a row now?

traderumor
09-12-2009, 11:42 PM
He's a freak athlete, but he's got a long way to go in the poise department.

Barkley looked like a vet on that last drive.

Barkley didn't do jack. It was Joe McKnight.

Tressel is a great administrator, great spokesman, great recruiter, great motivator, has great assistants, great role model....he needs to fire himself and hire a real offensive coordinator. That is his kryptonite, and he needs to admit it fast.

He had every opportunity to show off talents tonight, field position the entire second half, and his ultra conservative play calling netted three freakin' points. The D played their butts off, gave up one legit TD and a cheesy field goal at the end of the 1st half, which should have been meaningless.

The first two games have been as disappointed as I have ever been in Tressel. All the things he is great at has built a top 10 program, but they are not legit NC contenders until he fires himself as O coordinator and play caller. Simple as that. And I imagine that is about as likely as Mike Brown hiring a GM.

Captain Hook
09-12-2009, 11:43 PM
A pathetic loss imo.OSU did next to nothing on offense in the 2nd half and Pryor was terrible.They got the ball most of the second half with good field position and could only get 1 FG.The defense did do a nice job so there is still plenty of hope for the Bucks this year.Too bad they couldn't get the monkey off their back against a team that basically only scored 3 points the entire game up until their last drive(first TD was a gimmi).

MWM
09-12-2009, 11:45 PM
This game has Jim Tressel's fingerprint all over it. One day folks will wake up and realize he's not a good coach... AT ALL. He should never step within 100 yards of the offense, and within 200 yards of play calling duties. Their offense is more predictable than the Bengals. Gee, why don't we call another run up the middle. USC's defense knew what was coming all night.

The similarities to the 2005 Texas game are scary. 5 point lead in the 4th quarter with the ball in the opponent's territory. He's learned nothing. They have so much talent on offense, it's ridiculous. They should be racking up yards all over the place. I'm amazed at how he continues to lose games THE EXACT SAME WAY OVER AND OVER again, yet he continues to do it.

Anyone who's watched OSU the last 5 years saw this one coming a mile away. I knew once they converted the 3rd and long from inside their 10 the game was over. As long as Tressel is in charge of calling plays, OSU will never get over the hump of being able to win these types of games. Period!

LoganBuck
09-12-2009, 11:46 PM
What a heartbreaking loss. Reminded me of the late loss to Texas last year.

Yep.

It was a fun game to watch though. Win or lose, just be interesting.

It wasn't really covered much during the game, but the OSU offensive line turned another subpar performance, particularly the tackles. Pryor was feeling pressure all night, and a less mobile QB would have been sacked many times. Without a big running back, they have trouble converting third downs.

Mike Adams comes off suspension next week. The question is how far in the dog house is he?

Lets see how they look going forward. This team is built for 2010.

Matt Barkley played a nice game. Big future for that guy.

Joe McKnight is a special player.

traderumor
09-12-2009, 11:49 PM
This game has Jim Tressel's fingerprint all over it. One day folks will wake up and realize he's not a good coach... AT ALL. He should never step within 100 yards of the offense, and within 200 yards of play calling duties. Their offense is more predictable than the Bengals. Gee, why don't we call another run up the middle. USC's defense knew what was coming all night.

The similarities to the 2005 Texas game are scary. 5 point lead in the 4th quarter with the ball in the opponent's territory. He's learned nothing. They have so much talent on offense, it's ridiculous. They should be racking up yards all over the place. I'm amazed at how he continues to lose games THE EXACT SAME WAY OVER AND OVER again, yet he continues to do it.

Anyone who's watched OSU the last 5 years saw this one coming a mile away. I knew once they converted the 3rd and long from inside their 10 the game was over. As long as Tressel is in charge of calling plays, OSU will never get over the hump of being able to win these types of games. Period!As soon as USC took the ball for that last drive, I called the script. You knew that USC would find one drive and trying to sit on the ball and win it with field position and D would end in exactly the result it did. About as frustrating as it gets.

It's one thing to watch the talentless Reds try to squeak out a few wins, but its a whole 'nother thing when you get the horses and cut their hamstrings the minute they step on campus.

WMR
09-12-2009, 11:52 PM
Is Tressel's job 100% safe? Does he feel any heat at all?

I guess he'll be judged on his 2010 season?

kaldaniels
09-12-2009, 11:53 PM
Terrible loss. No excuses. One fact though. The USC back did not get in the end zone on the 4th and goal. Watch it frame by frame on the replay.

Highlifeman21
09-12-2009, 11:54 PM
This game has Jim Tressel's fingerprint all over it. One day folks will wake up and realize he's not a good coach... AT ALL. He should never step within 100 yards of the offense, and within 200 yards of play calling duties. Their offense is more predictable than the Bengals. Gee, why don't we call another run up the middle. USC's defense knew what was coming all night.

The similarities to the 2005 Texas game are scary. 5 point lead in the 4th quarter with the ball in the opponent's territory. He's learned nothing. They have so much talent on offense, it's ridiculous. They should be racking up yards all over the place. I'm amazed at how he continues to lose games THE EXACT SAME WAY OVER AND OVER again, yet he continues to do it.

Anyone who's watched OSU the last 5 years saw this one coming a mile away. I knew once they converted the 3rd and long from inside their 10 the game was over. As long as Tressel is in charge of calling plays, OSU will never get over the hump of being able to win these types of games. Period!

You're exactly right.

Tressel cost tOSU this ballgame with not only horrible playcalling, but also terrible clock management.

Tressel gave USC a chance for that FG late at the end of the 1st half, and then once he got a 5 point lead tried to sit on it for whatever reason.

Caseyfan21
09-12-2009, 11:56 PM
If you put money on OSU tonight, you won! Not that it makes me fell better or anything.

Spring~Fields
09-12-2009, 11:56 PM
Trojans Buckeyes
First Downs 20 11
Passing 10 5
Rushing 10 6
Penalty 0 0
Third Down Efficiency 6-16 4-13
Fourth Down Efficiency 3-3 0-1
TOTAL NET YARDS 322 272
Total Plays 70 55
Average Gain Per Play 4.6 4.9
NET YARDS RUSHING 127 96
Rushes 39 30
Average Per Rush 3.3 3.2
NET YARDS PASSING 195 176
Completions-Attempts 15-31 11-25
Yards Per Pass Play 6.3 7.0
Times Sacked 2 1
Yards Lost to Sacks 10 4
Had Intercepted 1 1
PUNTS 5 6
Average Punt 38.0 38.8
PENALTIES 4 5
Penalty Yards 30 38
FUMBLES 1 1
Fumbles Lost 0 0

LoganBuck
09-12-2009, 11:57 PM
This game has Jim Tressel's fingerprint all over it. One day folks will wake up and realize he's not a good coach... AT ALL. He should never step within 100 yards of the offense, and within 200 yards of play calling duties. Their offense is more predictable than the Bengals. Gee, why don't we call another run up the middle. USC's defense knew what was coming all night.

The similarities to the 2005 Texas game are scary. 5 point lead in the 4th quarter with the ball in the opponent's territory. He's learned nothing. They have so much talent on offense, it's ridiculous. They should be racking up yards all over the place. I'm amazed at how he continues to lose games THE EXACT SAME WAY OVER AND OVER again, yet he continues to do it.

Anyone who's watched OSU the last 5 years saw this one coming a mile away. I knew once they converted the 3rd and long from inside their 10 the game was over. As long as Tressel is in charge of calling plays, OSU will never get over the hump of being able to win these types of games. Period!

I understand where you are coming from, Tressel needs a big running back to execute this offense, and his style of ball. Carlos Hyde not qualifying was a big loss to this season's offense. Without him this team will look alot like the 2003-2004 Lydell Ross/Maurice Hall/Antonio Pittman teams, when Maurice Clarett was suspended. Carlos Hyde should be enrolled in January, and Tressel has recruited one of the best big backs in the country in Rod Smith from Indiana. He will allow Tressel to be more comfortable.

The problem with this line of thought is that he hasn't coached Pryor up enough to be comfortable in pressure situations. Pryor is the most physically talented player on the field, but he is supported by young receivers, a light weight running game, and suspect offensive line.

The play calling at the end of the first half was stupid, if you are going to be conservative, be conservative all game. Have a plan and stick with it. Tresselball is predicated on Defense, Special Teams, and Ball control offense. The offensive line, and the running back position need upgrades for that to happen.

KoryMac5
09-12-2009, 11:57 PM
OSU's defense was pretty gassed on that last drive. Up until that point they played a great defensive game. I am starting to wonder if it's Tressel that is being too conservative or that this is all Pryor can handle. 11-25 passing is pretty bad no matter how you slice it. Pryor is a great athlete but right now he is a below average quaterback that could be costing his team games.

As far as Barkley goes I didn't see anything great, but I did see a quaterback who manages a game pretty well and won't make many mistakes to cost his team the game. I don't agree with starting the true freshman but by giving up a few wins USC gains long term.

Spring~Fields
09-13-2009, 12:00 AM
As soon as USC took the ball for that last drive, I called the script. You knew that USC would find one drive and trying to sit on the ball and win it with field position and D would end in exactly the result it did. About as frustrating as it gets.

It's one thing to watch the talentless Reds try to squeak out a few wins, but its a whole 'nother thing when you get the horses and cut their hamstrings the minute they step on campus.

Absolutely, you have that right. He is a good man, but he runs an offense like he doesn't have confidence in his players, when he has a stable full of talent.

traderumor
09-13-2009, 12:02 AM
OSU's defense was pretty gassed on that last drive. Up until that point they played a great defensive game. I am starting to wonder if it's Tressel that is being too conservative or that this is all Pryor can handle. 11-25 passing is pretty bad no matter how you slice it. Pryor is a great athlete but right now he is a below average quaterback that could be costing his team games.

As far as Barkley goes I didn't see anything great, but I did see a quaterback who manages a game pretty well and won't make many mistakes to cost his team the game. I don't agree with starting the true freshman but by giving up a few wins USC gains long term.I give Barkley credit for nothing, not even managing the game. He is plug and play.

Captain Hook
09-13-2009, 12:02 AM
The similarities to the 2005 Texas game are scary. 5 point lead in the 4th quarter with the ball in the opponent's territory. He's learned nothing. They have so much talent on offense, it's ridiculous. They should be racking up yards all over the place. I'm amazed at how he continues to lose games THE EXACT SAME WAY OVER AND OVER again, yet he continues to do it.


While your right it's just as easy to say that he wins games over and over doing things the same way.Tres is able to beat every team that he should beat.That's good enough for Big 10 titles and bowl games against lesser competition.The problem is that teams that have elite players on offense will make plays even against the Bucks strong defense.The lack of offense only bites them in the butt 1 or 2 times a year.That's not enough to get Tressel fired or even say that he's a bad coach.It is enough to say that it's frustrating to watch OSU in these kind of games.

dabvu2498
09-13-2009, 12:04 AM
How many times did Pryor throw while falling backwards. Not good.

traderumor
09-13-2009, 12:05 AM
While your right it's just as easy to say that he wins games over and over doing things the same way.Tres is able to beat every team that he should beat.That's good enough for Big 10 titles and bowl games against lesser competition.The problem is that teams that have elite players on offense will make plays even against the Bucks strong defense.The lack of offense only bites them in the butt 1 or 2 times a year.That's not enough to get Tressel fired or even say that he's a bad coach.It is enough to say that it's frustrating to watch OSU in these kind of games.He is a great head coach. He just is not a good offensive coordinator and play caller. It is obvious he thinks otherwise, which is puzzling seeing how well he delegates and manages all other areas of the program, yet won't admit he stinks at this self-appointed duty.

redsfandan
09-13-2009, 12:06 AM
Is Tressel's job 100% safe? Does he feel any heat at all?

I guess he'll be judged on his 2010 season?
He made Ohio State champions and, while that was a few years ago, I doubt that he'll have to worry too much about his job if he can finish in the top 10 either this year or next year.

LoganBuck
09-13-2009, 12:06 AM
OSU's defense was pretty gassed on that last drive. Up until that point they played a great defensive game. I am starting to wonder if it's Tressel that is being too conservative or that this is all Pryor can handle. 11-25 passing is pretty bad no matter how you slice it. Pryor is a great athlete but right now he is a below average quaterback that could be costing his team games.
.

Gotta disagree, the offensive line doesn't hold up well enough at the point of attack versus quality defense. Pryor has to start moving his feet, and throwing on the run, and that is when things get dicey, the receivers start improvising and you get busted plays. Bryant Browning, Jim Cordle, and Andrew Miller just aren't the kind of players that will lead you to be successful versus a team like USC. None of those three will be drafted, unless someone has a scheme that Cordle will fit into, and even then it will be late.

KoryMac5
09-13-2009, 12:09 AM
I give Barkley credit for nothing, not even managing the game. He is plug and play.

Barkley came into OSU and didn't wilt in the 106,000 degree heat. Not many true freshman QB's can say that they came into Columbus and came out with a victory. His stat sheet was less than impressive and all the love from ESPN was sickening but I can give him some credit.

Spring~Fields
09-13-2009, 12:11 AM
He made Ohio State champions and, while that was a few years ago, I doubt that he'll have to worry too much about his job if he can finish in the top 10 either this year or next year.

He was special teams and defense the year he won the championship. They won some close games that year, and we were all very happy they won but, he hasn't adapted his approach to these games against better level teams.



2002 14-0 (8-0) Big Ten Co-Champion National Champion
August 24 Texas Tech W 45 21
September 7 Kent State W 51 17
September 14 Washington State W 25 7
September 21 Cincinnati W 23 19
September 28 Indiana W 45 17
October 5 Northwestern W 27 16
October 12 San Jose State W 50 7
October 19 Wisconsin W 19 14
October 26 Penn State W 13 7
November 2 Minnesota W 34 3
November 9 Purdue W 10 6
November 16 Illinois W (OT) 23 16
November 23 Michigan W 14 9
January 3 Miami (FL) W (2OT) 31 24

KoryMac5
09-13-2009, 12:13 AM
Gotta disagree, the offensive line doesn't hold up well enough at the point of attack versus quality defense. Pryor has to start moving his feet, and throwing on the run, and that is when things get dicey, the receivers start improvising and you get busted plays. Bryant Browning, Jim Cordle, and Andrew Miller just aren't the kind of players that will lead you to be successful versus a team like USC. None of those three will be drafted, unless someone has a scheme that Cordle will fit into, and even then it will be late.

I hope for your sake I am wrong but I just don't see Pryor ever becoming an accurate passer. He is a playmaker with great athletic ability but when you shut that down he becomes a very limited QB. He has serious problems throwing the football that would have me worried over the next two years.

MWM
09-13-2009, 12:14 AM
Is Tressel's job 100% safe? Does he feel any heat at all?

I guess he'll be judged on his 2010 season?

Jim isn't going anywhere in quite some time. He's as entrenched in Columbus as just about anyone in the country not names Paterno. He'll continue to dominate a weak big ten and continue to lose games like this one. Like traderumor said, he's actually really good at the "head coach" stuff. He just needs to completely divorce himself from the offense. He calls the plays. He needs to bring in someone who knows how to use to the talent that he brings in, which is about as good as anyone's. He needs to find someone who realizes it's not 1970 anymore. Things have changed a little since then. There's a reason why the rest of the big ten actually has fared OK against top conferences over the past 10 or so years, but OSU has not. And that reason is wearing a sweater vest.

guttle11
09-13-2009, 12:17 AM
He was special teams and defense the year he won the championship. They won some close games that year, and we were all very happy they won but, he hasn't adapted his approach to these games against better level teams.

Oh yes he has, and against everyone, not just top level teams. 2002 Jim Tressel called for a 40 yard bomb on 4th and 1 with the season on the line. 2002 Jim Tressel called an all out blitz on 4th and goal in double OT of the National Title game.

They played conservative most of the time because that was the personnel, but 2002 Jim Tressel rolled the dice several times. Not sure he has since.

Captain Hook
09-13-2009, 12:18 AM
Barkley came into OSU and didn't wilt in the 106,000 degree heat. Not many true freshman QB's can say that they came into Columbus and came out with a victory. His stat sheet was less than impressive and all the love from ESPN was sickening but I can give him some credit.

I guess he deserves some credit since they won.If OSU had not given them their first TD and capitalized on their good field position in the 2nd half I think we would be talking about how he really struggle against a strong defense while taking a bad loss.

CrackerJack
09-13-2009, 12:19 AM
He is a good man, but he runs an offense like he doesn't have confidence in his players, when he has a stable full of talent.

Agreed. First thought that came to mind is that he lacks confidence in his players when they handed the ball off on that 3rd and goal after doing the same thing on the prior play, inside the 5.

I have to think a better coach wins that game, but the OSU o-line is not very good and i'm not sure why he can't recruit better lineman.

MWM
09-13-2009, 12:20 AM
Tressel needs a big running back to execute this offense, and his style of ball.

And THAT's the problem. That's not really an offense. If you require something like a big bruising back to execute your offense, I'd say you have no business being the guy in charge of one. I don't even know if it's really the "conservatism" as much as a lack of real competence in running a complete offense in all 4 quarters in any part of the field. Anyone who pays attention will see the ridiculous talent they produce year in and year out. Yet the offense consistently underperforms the talent level. If he were the O-coordinator and not the head coach, he'd have been out of a job several years ago.

redsfan1966
09-13-2009, 12:21 AM
anger..frustration....disappointment...its getting old...we continue to follow the same trend....blowing big games...

Chip R
09-13-2009, 12:22 AM
How many times did Pryor throw while falling backwards. Not good.


Man is 6-6 235 runs a sub 4.4 40 and he's playing QB? Not saying he can't throw the ball but his forte is running the football. His future is going to be running the football. I think it would be best for him and tOSU if he were switched to RB ASAP.

KoryMac5
09-13-2009, 12:24 AM
Agreed. First thought that came to mind is that he lacks confidence in his players when they handed the ball off on that 3rd and goal after doing the same thing on the prior play, inside the 5.

I have to think a better coach wins that game, but the OSU o-line is not very good and i'm not sure why he can't recruit better lineman.

Is it confidence or is it the fact that his QB Pryor doesn't fit with the offensive scheme he is running. I think Tressel may want to sit down with his staff and figure a way to get the square peg into the square hole instead of the circle.

Highlifeman21
09-13-2009, 12:29 AM
Is it confidence or is it the fact that his QB Pryor doesn't fit with the offensive scheme he is running. I think Tressel may want to sit down with his staff and figure a way to get the square peg into the square hole instead of the circle.

So more Bowserman @ QB, and Pryor becomes a HB or WR?

MWM
09-13-2009, 12:29 AM
Gotta disagree, the offensive line doesn't hold up well enough at the point of attack versus quality defense.

That may be true, but it's hard to play O-line when the other team pretty much knows what you're going to be running. That becomes even more true when the D comes with the talent that a USC has.

They have to find a way to get some respect for the deep play. I REALLY like Posey and think he could be special, but they need someone who the defense has to always be aware of breaking free deep. Hell, throw Ray Small out there and just make run straight down the field every time. And every once in a while throw it to him. Pryor might not be a great passer yet, but anyone can throw a bomb. They need one or two go to plays that make a defense think twice before they stick 8 in the box.

dabvu2498
09-13-2009, 12:31 AM
Man is 6-6 235 runs a sub 4.4 40 and he's playing QB? Not saying he can't throw the ball but his forte is running the football. His future is going to be running the football. I think it would be best for him and tOSU if he were switched to RB ASAP. That, or give him a 2 count after his drop and then his only choice is to run.

Spring~Fields
09-13-2009, 12:37 AM
Oh yes he has, and against everyone, not just top level teams. 2002 Jim Tressel called for a 40 yard bomb on 4th and 1 with the season on the line. 2002 Jim Tressel called an all out blitz on 4th and goal in double OT of the National Title game.

They played conservative most of the time because that was the personnel, but 2002 Jim Tressel rolled the dice several times. Not sure he has since.

You probably remember better than I do. I do remember them winning games that year as if God was on their side, him and those great linebackers. Since then Tressel has been on his own, and his magic has ran out against the better teams.

MWM
09-13-2009, 12:38 AM
The good news is the defensive line and even the secondary played fantastic tonight. USC has perhaps the best O-line in the country and they were handled pretty well most of the night by the Buckeye D-line. The secondary is young and inexperienced and they also played well most of the night.

Chances are they run the table, win the B10 again and wind up in the BCS. They should be a better team by then, but they'll still struggle against a big time opponent (although they won't get run off the field like some will suggest). But the REAL anticipation is for next year. Next year will be the first year since 2005 or 2006 that they have a legitimately great team. Since the Troy Smith, Ginn, Hawk years they really haven't been that good. This year is one of those stepping stone years. They could be special next year, and I mean a legit national title contender (not like 2007 when they were just lucky and never very good to begin with). They've got Miami in Columbus early in the season. If they win that, they will be sitting pretty. But the so-called experts are also calling this a stepping stone year for Miami and they're supposed to be legit next year as well.

MWM
09-13-2009, 12:41 AM
Man is 6-6 235 runs a sub 4.4 40 and he's playing QB? Not saying he can't throw the ball but his forte is running the football. His future is going to be running the football. I think it would be best for him and tOSU if he were switched to RB ASAP.

I don't agree with that. This is still the first game of his sophomore year. And while I don't think he's ever likely to be a top tier passer, he will become good enough at passing to be a stellar college QB. He's a better passer now than Vince Young was at the same stage and I don't think anyone thinks he should have moved. Now I don't think TP will be a good pro QB, but he could be great in the college game. He will improve. Heck, he's already improved over last year. People shouldn't forget that they were playing freaking USC. He'll be fine at QB.

acredsfan
09-13-2009, 12:44 AM
I said it before the game and I'll say it again, Pryor is simply not a good passer. He's a play maker and can carry the team, but only when he is effective at running the ball. I really was pulling for OSU but they didn't capitalize when they had the chance. Whether it is because of play calling, the O-line, or whatever else. It wasn't a good showing by either team when you look at it. Yes, it was a defensive battle, but a great team has to be able to make the big plays to win the games, neither offense acted like they wanted to win tonight. Pryor has to focus on becoming more accurate if this team is going to succeed, but I honestly don't know if he can. Tressel's style is smash mouth football, and that's not his current team's strength.

Chip R
09-13-2009, 12:46 AM
I don't agree with that. This is still the first game of his sophomore year. And while I don't think he's ever likely to be a top tier passer, he will become good enough at passing to be a stellar college QB. He's a better passer now than Vince Young was at the same stage and I don't think anyone thinks he should have moved. Now I don't think TP will be a good pro QB, but he could be great in the college game. He will improve. Heck, he's already improved over last year. People shouldn't forget that they were playing freaking USC. He'll be fine at QB.

Then, if he's not going to be a good pro QB, why play him there? I'm not saying he's a bad college QB but he could either be a good college QB or a great college and pro running back.

MWM
09-13-2009, 12:53 AM
Then, if he's not going to be a good pro QB, why play him there? I'm not saying he's a bad college QB but he could either be a good college QB or a great college and pro running back.

College is so different than the pros. Whether or not someone can be great in the pros is irrelevant to how they are used in college. I never for a second thought Vince Young would be any good in the NFL. Danny Wuerffel is as good a college QB as I've ever seen, but I don't think anyone thought he'd be any good in the pros either. People keep bringin up Vince Young because he's as close a comp to Pryor as we've seen in a while. And I don't think many would argue that he wasn't a great college QB. I think Pryor is more talented all around than Young. I really believe that.

People forget that it wasn't until his last year that he really became the player folks remember. But he was not a good passer even that year. And he was even worse the previous year. I think Pryor will surprise some people by the end of the year with his passing. He's never going to be Carson Palmer, but he'll be good enough that teams will not be able to just throw guys at him. That's all he'll need to be in order to make him a special player. He never needs to be a hurler. He just needs to be good enough to make them defend the pass. Then the field will be wide open.

Captain Hook
09-13-2009, 12:54 AM
You probably remember better than I do. I do remember them winning games that year as if God was on their side, him and those great linebackers. Since then Tressel has been on his own, and his magic has ran out against the better teams.

It's not as if Tressel has been lost since 2002.Big 10 titles and Nat. Championship games are the norm and I can't remember the last time the Bucks lost to a team that didn't play in a BCS bowl game at the end of the year.There has been only 1 sub par year by OSU standards since Tressels title run in 2002 and even that year he beat Mich. and won the bowl game.

guttle11
09-13-2009, 12:55 AM
Then, if he's not going to be a good pro QB, why play him there? I'm not saying he's a bad college QB but he could either be a good college QB or a great college and pro running back.

Because the other options are worse? He had a few passes tonight that were "wow" throws. He also made some bad throws. It's ok. You could say the same about the new golden boy, Barkley.

Pryor should be the Ohio State quarterback. He just shouldn't take more than 25% of the snaps from under center. Ohio State should be running 4 and 5 WR sets a majority of the time. The RBs are below average for OSU backs, and the o line can't surge. This is not a power running team at all, yet the coach thinks it is.

Amazing that wasn't figured out over the last, oh, 8 months.

Chip R
09-13-2009, 01:19 AM
College is so different than the pros. Whether or not someone can be great in the pros is irrelevant to how they are used in college. I never for a second thought Vince Young would be any good in the NFL. Danny Wuerffel is as good a college QB as I've ever seen, but I don't think anyone thought he'd be any good in the pros either. People keep bringin up Vince Young because he's as close a comp to Pryor as we've seen in a while. And I don't think many would argue that he wasn't a great college QB. I think Pryor is more talented all around than Young. I really believe that.

People forget that it wasn't until his last year that he really became the player folks remember. But he was not a good passer even that year. And he was even worse the previous year. I think Pryor will surprise some people by the end of the year with his passing. He's never going to be Carson Palmer, but he'll be good enough that teams will not be able to just throw guys at him. That's all he'll need to be in order to make him a special player. He never needs to be a hurler. He just needs to be good enough to make them defend the pass. Then the field will be wide open.


They aren't going to win a national championship with him at QB. He's good enough to bet the teams in the Big Televen but against the elite teams - especially the teams who have a month to prepare for him - he's not going to get the job done. It's like having Albert Pujols hit to the right side to advance a runner to 3rd rather than using his God given ability to drive that run home - and perhaps himself too - with a base hit or a home run.

You've said it yourself. Tressel is the one calling the plays. I've seen this guy coach since he was at YSU. He loves that power running game. So why not have someone in there who can do that? He's helping himself out, he's helping Pryor out and he's helping tOSU out. He could do it too, USC guys were bouncing off him when he was running. If he's resistant to the notion of moving, tell him that he can either be a 4th or 5th round choice in the draft. Or he can win a Heisman and be the #1 draft pick next year and make millions and millions of dollars. And if he wants to throw the ball every once in a while, put the old halfback option in there. The kid isn't a brain surgeon but I'm sure he could see the logic in that. I'm not even a tOSU fan either. I don't have a dog in this hunt. You keep bringing up the Vince Young comparison but Young hasn't done squat in the pros. Even if he does turn out better than Young, NFL teams are going to realize what Young hasn't done and will not draft him very high. He'll be trying to make an NFL team as a backup QB and a sometimes Wildcat guy.

goreds2
09-13-2009, 01:35 AM
:cry:

IslandRed
09-13-2009, 01:56 AM
Then, if he's not going to be a good pro QB, why play him there? I'm not saying he's a bad college QB but he could either be a good college QB or a great college and pro running back.

Two disagreements:

1. As others have said, pro <> college. His projection as an NFL QB should matter little to Ohio State. It may matter to Pryor, but if he's like most any other quarterback, he won't move until someone makes him. The starting QB is usually the alpha dog on a team.

2. If he switches positions at the NFL level, it would be to wide receiver. How many 6'5" running backs do you see? There are reasons for that. His body and speed would project very well as a wideout, though.

I'll also say that, while I'm not a Buckeye fan and I haven't bought the hype on Pryor, it's a bit early to claim that he can't win a championship. In OSU's three championship games this decade, the winning QBs were Krenzel, Leak and Mauck. I don't think it's a real reach that he can be better than those guys. It kind of depends on what happens with the rest of the team.

GIDP
09-13-2009, 02:09 AM
I thought they were going to get blown out, but this loss was 10 times better

improbus
09-13-2009, 08:52 AM
Some thoughts.

-I wasn't very impressed by USC. Barkley did his best "Joe Flacco" impression in which he really didn't play well, but everyone heaps on praise because his team won. They're defense is a shell of it's former self. They should lose two games this year and one of them could be to ND.
-Tressel coaches games with two hands around his own neck. OSU simply blew the game: 4th and goal on the 1 and settles for FG, mismananges clock at the end of the 1st half giving USC the ball back, calling the same doomed running play on 1st on every series, not putting Pryor in shotgun enough and letting him improvise, and so many other opportunities. Yuck. Trust your guys Tressel. Let them play.
-Crowd really came to play. I make fun of OSU's crowd all of the time, but they were electric and really carried OSU for 3 quarters.

GAC
09-13-2009, 09:30 AM
This game has Jim Tressel's fingerprint all over it. One day folks will wake up and realize he's not a good coach... AT ALL. He should never step within 100 yards of the offense, and within 200 yards of play calling duties. Their offense is more predictable than the Bengals. Gee, why don't we call another run up the middle. USC's defense knew what was coming all night.

The similarities to the 2005 Texas game are scary. 5 point lead in the 4th quarter with the ball in the opponent's territory. He's learned nothing. They have so much talent on offense, it's ridiculous. They should be racking up yards all over the place. I'm amazed at how he continues to lose games THE EXACT SAME WAY OVER AND OVER again, yet he continues to do it.

Anyone who's watched OSU the last 5 years saw this one coming a mile away. I knew once they converted the 3rd and long from inside their 10 the game was over. As long as Tressel is in charge of calling plays, OSU will never get over the hump of being able to win these types of games. Period!

Pretty spot on Mike. Though I will disagree with your assertion that he is not a good coach.

This game should have been; but when we went into the 2nd half I just knew we weren't going to win it because we had opportunities..... MY GAWD LOOK AT THE FIELD POSITION WE WERE GETTING???..... to put this game away, and we couldn't do it.

Positives? The defensive front was awesome, and fought hard all game. And I thought our outside LBers did a good job. Posey looked good. And I was somewhat impressed with Saine.

Now on to the negatives.....

- Offensive line. Could be a BIG problem this season
- Running game. Do we have one? Regardless of the O-lines woes, not impressed with Herron at all.
- Outgained in the 2nd Half by a margin of 178-12. Unacceptable.
- Pryor. His head was where? Way too many mental lapses, bad and forced passes. Felt sorry for his receivers. He simply blew (panicked) on several opportunities with wide open receivers.
- Tressel. For a guy who is considered one of the most conservative, ball control/field position coaches in all of college football, [b]what in the world was he thinking going 2 minutes into the halftime? That was stupid!

And when you have a QB that everyone is comparing to Young or Vick.... why do you utilize him like he's Todd Boeckman? The play calling last night was simply atrocious. I never saw such confusion once the ball was snapped. So predictable. I loved how the announcers bragged up Carroll, and said he is one of the best at making halftime adjustments to his opponents.

With Tressel, what do you have to adjust too?

And you're right Mike..... "Hey! Lets call for another run up the middle. They'll never expect that!" :D

A game that should have been won. Period!

I don't know how good USC is, or going to be. But we'll look back on this game possibly at season's end and wonder what should have been.

Puffy
09-13-2009, 11:48 AM
Man is 6-6 235 runs a sub 4.4 40 and he's playing QB? Not saying he can't throw the ball but his forte is running the football. His future is going to be running the football. I think it would be best for him and tOSU if he were switched to RB ASAP.

I don't know that a 6'6 RB can last in the NFL. To my recollection there has never been a RB that tall (more area to hit and thus more injuries). Jacobs is 6'4 and thats about as big as I can remember, but he's also 265.

I think in the NFL he will either stay at QB or go to WR.

KoryMac5
09-13-2009, 11:54 AM
So more Bowserman @ QB, and Pryor becomes a HB or WR?

I wouldn't move him this year or next that ship has sailed and Tressel put all his eggs in the Pryor QB basket, and why not he was the recruit coming out of HS. I think you need to sit down and discuss with your staff what Pryor does well and what he doesn't do well. Design your scheme based on his strenghts. Take advantage of his athletic abilty, roll him out, bootlegs etc... Pryor should be a guy who nets you 250 yds per game combined with his legs and arms.

I would imagine things could get very ugly in Columbus over the next few weeks. Tressel and Pryor will be feeling some major heat.

RBA
09-13-2009, 01:34 PM
I guess it hard to admit that USC was just the better team. I'm just hearing excuses from OSU fans. I thought the freshman didn't have a chance in the shoe?

*BaseClogger*
09-13-2009, 04:13 PM
I guess it hard to admit that USC was just the better team. I'm just hearing excuses from OSU fans. I thought the freshman didn't have a chance in the shoe?

:lol:

You have to be kidding me. This is easily the most arrogant post in this thread... :rolleyes:

traderumor
09-13-2009, 04:15 PM
I guess it hard to admit that USC was just the better team. I'm just hearing excuses from OSU fans. I thought the freshman didn't have a chance in the shoe?Nice baiting post. Most of what I saw is Buckeyes supporters saying it would be a tough environment, and it was indeed that. I also saw folks noting that his support was great, and guess who won the game? Joe McKnight, one of those support people. The freshman just didn't trip over his shoestrings, which was basically what they asked of him.

RBA
09-13-2009, 05:09 PM
Arrogant? I'm done with OSU fans. Time to move on. T

traderumor
09-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Arrogant? I'm done with OSU fans. Time to move on. TPromise?

RBA
09-13-2009, 05:21 PM
Promise?

Just for that sarcastic question. NO.

BuckeyeRedleg
09-13-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm done with trolls on this board.

RBA
09-13-2009, 05:40 PM
I'm done with trolls on this board.

Um, I'm now a troll because I think USC is the better team and OSU played a good game but fell short despite their best effort? Wow.

*BaseClogger*
09-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Golly gosh I'm shaking in my boots now because I know I might have to read some more of RBA's contributions to this thread... :rolleyes:

Caveat Emperor
09-13-2009, 05:45 PM
Knock it off everyone. If you have an issue, take it private.

First and only warning.

Chip R
09-13-2009, 07:39 PM
I don't know that a 6'6 RB can last in the NFL. To my recollection there has never been a RB that tall (more area to hit and thus more injuries). Jacobs is 6'4 and thats about as big as I can remember, but he's also 265.

I think in the NFL he will either stay at QB or go to WR.

You're probably right but the average RB in the NFL only lasts around 3 years.

Since Matt Millen isn't a GM any more, I suspect if he were a WR, he wouldn't be the #1 draft pick.

DTCromer
09-13-2009, 08:05 PM
All I saw last night was an awful-to-watch football game played by 2 "OK" teams who both have no business being ranked in the Top 10. USC is the better team coming on the road, 3 time zones away, into a hostile environment with a freshman QB, and winning the game. OSU is a 1 dimensional football team who relies on a better than average defense.

Neither team really deserved to win last night.

traderumor
09-13-2009, 10:15 PM
It is interesting to now see that after the game was played, USC is just "OK" considering how they were going to destroy the Buckeyes during the week. So much for the bold predictors of OSU getting embarrassed. Now USC is just "OK." :rolleyes:

KoryMac5
09-13-2009, 10:19 PM
It is interesting to now see that after the game was played, USC is just "OK" considering how they were going to destroy the Buckeyes during the week. So much for the bold predictors of OSU getting embarrassed. Now USC is just "OK." :rolleyes:

I admit I thought USC was going to win by two TD's. I think I got into the mindset of remembering how powerful USC has been over the past few years when I made my prediction. What I didn't realize was that OSU's defense was really good and as a Penn State fan that has me a little worried. Then I remember Pryor is your QB and I feel a little bit better.

traderumor
09-13-2009, 10:21 PM
I admit I thought USC was going to win by two TD's. I think I got into the mindset of remembering how powerful USC has been over the past few years when I made my prediction. What I didn't realize was that OSU's defense was really good and as a Penn State fan that has me a little worried. Then I remember Pryor is your QB and I feel a little bit better.Dem's look like some sour grapes from a recruiting loss ;)

KoryMac5
09-13-2009, 10:24 PM
Dem's look like some sour grapes from a recruiting loss ;)

You caught me. :thumbup: PSU wanted him bad, thought we had a shot until he made the final call. Michigan was probably more burned about it than we were though.

traderumor
09-13-2009, 10:29 PM
You caught me. :thumbup: PSU wanted him bad, thought we had a shot until he made the final call. Michigan was probably more burned about it than we were though.I was thinking last night that he is going to be sorry for coming here, that Tressel won't turn him loose, ever.

Caveat Emperor
09-13-2009, 10:39 PM
I was thinking last night that he is going to be sorry for coming here, that Tressel won't turn him loose, ever.

Which makes me wonder if Rodriguez (and, to a lesser extent, Brian Kelly) won't start to steal some offensive recruits from under Tressel's nose here in OH in the near future.

Fortunately for OSU, their players do tend to get drafted even if they're underutilized in school.

MWM
09-13-2009, 11:28 PM
Which makes me wonder if Rodriguez (and, to a lesser extent, Brian Kelly) won't start to steal some offensive recruits from under Tressel's nose here in OH in the near future.

Fortunately for OSU, their players do tend to get drafted even if they're underutilized in school.

I don't think it's far-fetched at all. I don't know why any QB who had choices would go to Ohio State. And until Pryor they pretty much didn't. Justin Zwick was a top 5 high school QB who never did anything at OSU. Rob Schoenhoft was another somewhat highly recruited QB who transferred. Troy Smith was actually allowed to play QB but he's been the only one.

But somehow receivers continue to come to OSU in large part because the record of OSU getting receivers drafted. But if they don't start playing a more modern offense, I think that could change as well. These are the reasons why I think it's imperative that Tressel give up control of the offense. Right now it's just costing them games. In the future it will cost them recruits.

My prediction - Brian Kelly is coach of Notre Dame next year. :evil:

Scrap Irony
09-13-2009, 11:30 PM
All I saw last night was an awful-to-watch football game played by 2 "OK" teams who both have no business being ranked in the Top 10. USC is the better team coming on the road, 3 time zones away, into a hostile environment with a freshman QB, and winning the game. OSU is a 1 dimensional football team who relies on a better than average defense.

Neither team really deserved to win last night.

I agree. If these are two of the top ten teams in college football this year, college football really looks... boring. Florida, Alabama, and most of the SEC look great and clearly ahead of most of the nation. No suprise there. Texas looks to be really fun to watch, but the rest of the Big XVII-- with Bradford's injury-- are yawn-inducing or overrated. (OSU? Please.)

Might be an interesting year for Cincinnati, if they can continue to play well against Big East opponentsthat are obviously down. Like, BCS/ Top-Five good.

DTCromer
09-14-2009, 08:04 AM
I agree. If these are two of the top ten teams in college football this year, college football really looks... boring. Florida, Alabama, and most of the SEC look great and clearly ahead of most of the nation. No suprise there. Texas looks to be really fun to watch, but the rest of the Big XVII-- with Bradford's injury-- are yawn-inducing or overrated. (OSU? Please.)

Might be an interesting year for Cincinnati, if they can continue to play well against Big East opponentsthat are obviously down. Like, BCS/ Top-Five good.


Actually, aside form Florida and Alabama, the SEC looks VERY average this year. Ole Miss could end up in this category as well, but the conference doesn't look great by any stretch.

Tennessee lost @ home to UCLA
UGA lost to a team that lost to Houston at home
LSU looked average in a win vs UW and average in beating Vandy at home.

traderumor
09-14-2009, 10:25 AM
I agree. If these are two of the top ten teams in college football this year, college football really looks... boring. Florida, Alabama, and most of the SEC look great and clearly ahead of most of the nation. No suprise there. Texas looks to be really fun to watch, but the rest of the Big XVII-- with Bradford's injury-- are yawn-inducing or overrated. (OSU? Please.)

Might be an interesting year for Cincinnati, if they can continue to play well against Big East opponentsthat are obviously down. Like, BCS/ Top-Five good.Its week 2. If you were looking at two vet., established teams playing in week 2, making conclusions might be valid. Since they aren't, making conclusions based on that game should be left to ESPN, who has a lot of air time to fill with bad analysis.

BuckeyeRed27
09-14-2009, 12:42 PM
Well it's Monday morning and I still have no voice from the game. Crazy atmopshere at the Shoe. Here are some take aways and observations:

-I'm excited about this Defense. They are fast and the Dline is better than I thought it could be.

-I didn't have a huge problem with Tressel's game plan, but a couple decisions that I'm sure have been talked about I really do question. Should have gone for it on 4th and goal. Should have probably tried to kick the field goal on the drive before they tied it up. Should have stopped running Boom up the middle on first down every drive in the 2nd half.

-I was sitting in the south stands and I will never know how that punt wasn't blocked. It had to have gone through his arms. Also Barkley either did a great job or got very lucky when Torrance sacked him to not fumble.

-Not sure if you could see it on TV but on the last drive when Pryor got the intentional grounding USC blitzed the corner and Duron Carter literally had no USC player within 10 yards of him. Possibly could have gone for a TD if Pryor could have gotten him the ball.

-Overall just a hugely disappointing game. OSU once again had many many chances to put it away and just didn't do it. Like I said I didn't mind Tressels game plan because I do believe it gave us a chance to win but he needed to be a little more aggressive on a couple occasions. Pryor played very poorly between reads and not making good passes in the 2nd half and I wonder how that played into some of the play calls. I think both teams are good, but not great and we have a real good chance of this being the Rose Bowl this year too.

bucksfan
09-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Well it's Monday morning and I still have no voice from the game. Crazy atmopshere at the Shoe. Here are some take aways and observations:

-I'm excited about this Defense. They are fast and the Dline is better than I thought it could be.

-I didn't have a huge problem with Tressel's game plan, but a couple decisions that I'm sure have been talked about I really do question. Should have gone for it on 4th and goal. Should have probably tried to kick the field goal on the drive before they tied it up. Should have stopped running Boom up the middle on first down every drive in the 2nd half.

-I was sitting in the south stands and I will never know how that punt wasn't blocked. It had to have gone through his arms. Also Barkley either did a great job or got very lucky when Torrance sacked him to not fumble.

-Not sure if you could see it on TV but on the last drive when Pryor got the intentional grounding USC blitzed the corner and Duron Carter literally had no USC player within 10 yards of him. Possibly could have gone for a TD if Pryor could have gotten him the ball.

-Overall just a hugely disappointing game. OSU once again had many many chances to put it away and just didn't do it. Like I said I didn't mind Tressels game plan because I do believe it gave us a chance to win but he needed to be a little more aggressive on a couple occasions. Pryor played very poorly between reads and not making good passes in the 2nd half and I wonder how that played into some of the play calls. I think both teams are good, but not great and we have a real good chance of this being the Rose Bowl this year too.


I had a similar take from the opposite end of the stadium (4A)! That was flat-out one of the best atmospheres I have been in for an athletic event. Everything was great except the end result. I read everythign from "the Buckeyes suck" to "both teams suck" and everywhere in between. The game I saw was a really fun game (maybe you had to be there) with 2 evenly matched teams playing a very hard football game. I enjoyed it immensely, besides the losing part and the inevitable rubbish that follows it.

BuckeyeRed27
09-15-2009, 03:40 PM
I had a similar take from the opposite end of the stadium (4A)! That was flat-out one of the best atmospheres I have been in for an athletic event. Everything was great except the end result. I read everythign from "the Buckeyes suck" to "both teams suck" and everywhere in between. The game I saw was a really fun game (maybe you had to be there) with 2 evenly matched teams playing a very hard football game. I enjoyed it immensely, besides the losing part and the inevitable rubbish that follows it.

Agreed.
The two of the best five OSU games I have been too we lost. That happens when you play good teams. It sucks that we have lost a few in a row, but I have full confidence that we will continue to be competitive and win our share of these games.

cincrazy
09-15-2009, 09:21 PM
Agreed.
The two of the best five OSU games I have been too we lost. That happens when you play good teams. It sucks that we have lost a few in a row, but I have full confidence that we will continue to be competitive and win our share of these games.

You are awesome. I'm so glad to see a Buckeye fan with a realistic viewpoint, and not a "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING FIRE TRESSEL CLEAN HOUSE!" point of view.

bucksfan
09-15-2009, 10:00 PM
You are awesome. I'm so glad to see a Buckeye fan with a realistic viewpoint, and not a "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING FIRE TRESSEL CLEAN HOUSE!" point of view.

There are lots of us out there too. :thumbup:

GAC
09-16-2009, 06:47 PM
There are lots of us out there too. :thumbup:

yes there are. :D

improbus
09-16-2009, 09:41 PM
There are lots of us out there too. :thumbup:

I agree, but there are alot of people who love Tressel because he is Ohio. If you were to take Ohio, bottle it and market it, then it would look like Jim Tressel. Unless something horrific happens at OSU, his job is secure.

Mario-Rijo
09-17-2009, 03:23 AM
I was thinking last night that he is going to be sorry for coming here, that Tressel won't turn him loose, ever.

Yeah he sure didn't turn Troy loose either. Come on same 'ole stuff in this thread as you see everywhere else. Had Pryor executed his mechanics correctly like he is capable of (see the spring game and early moments in this game) this game is a most likely a win for OSU. People always like to pound Tressel for being too conservative which there is nothing wrong with if you execute it on the field, if they can't execute a conservative offense why in the world should he cut them loose? Now if people want to rag on him for keeping coaching contuinity in certain areas (mainly offensive line) when it doesn't ever seem to come together then he's guilty as charged. But other than that the coach doesn't play the game the players have to take the blame and this game is on Pryor.