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View Full Version : 9/11/09- Reds vs Cubs



GAC
09-11-2009, 03:02 PM
Look on the bright side.....getting swept in Colorado, THAT HURT THE CUB'S WILD CARD CHANCES EVEN MORE! :p:



Cincinnati

Season Avg
D. Stubbs cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .247
P. Janish ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .211
J. Votto 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .298
B. Phillips 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .275
S. Rolen 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .278
J. Gomes lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .280
D. McDonald rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .222
C. Tatum c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .167
J. Lehr p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .133


Chi Cubs

Season Avg
K. Fukudome cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .269
M. Bradley rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .266
D. Lee 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .299
A. Ramirez 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .306
M. Hoffpauir lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .236
J. Baker 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .305
G. Soto c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .219
R. Theriot ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .288
R. Harden p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .190

nate
09-11-2009, 03:26 PM
Chat is open!

GAC
09-11-2009, 03:26 PM
A leadoff walk by Drew "WT" Stubbs :D

GAC
09-11-2009, 03:29 PM
Janish draws a BB.

But I still disagree with batting him behind Stubbs in the #2 hole. Geez!

Tom Servo
09-11-2009, 03:40 PM
Dusty must not like dudes like Votto and Phillips, striking out with men on base and all.

klw
09-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Can't Stubbs just steal home too?

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 03:43 PM
So Harden can't find the plate for most of the bad hitters in our lineup (save for Rolen) but he finds it somehow for Joey and Brandon. That may be all he needs to do today to win the game but I'd love the guys to prove me wrong. :eek:

klw
09-11-2009, 03:43 PM
Harden facing Gomes, already at 36 pitches. 3 BB's, 2 k's. He won't last long at this rate.

Tom Servo
09-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Reds fail.

BRM
09-11-2009, 03:45 PM
Reds fail.

Seems to be a pattern...

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 03:45 PM
Joey was probably flustered from hitting with actual guys on base in front of him early in the game, LOL :laugh:

CTA513
09-11-2009, 03:45 PM
Still poor hitting with runners on but they did make Harden throw around 40 or more pitches.

klw
09-11-2009, 03:45 PM
40 pitch first inning for Harden with 3 BB's 3 sb's but no runs.

Kc61
09-11-2009, 03:47 PM
Harden facing Gomes, already at 36 pitches. 3 BB's, 2 ki's. He won't last long at this rate.


Yeah, let's get Harden out of there so the next guy can mow down the Reds.

That was just another horrendous inning in which the team had every opportunity to score runs and couldn't.

Votto's slump continues, Phillips still isn't a cleanup hitter, and I'd avoid giving Gomes that big contract right away.

Lehr walks the first guy. Why am I not optimistic today?

nate
09-11-2009, 03:49 PM
Yessirree!

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 03:49 PM
Yessiree! :)

Kc61
09-11-2009, 03:50 PM
Cubs out.

Now that offensive juggernaut known as the Reds bring their mighty bats to the plate. How many men will they strand this time?

Kc61
09-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Reds go down quicky, quietly and in order in the second. The Reds pitcher, Lehr, takes the bat and works Harden patiently before being called out on strikes. Harden, recognizing this enemy, gains confidence by the batter.

GAC
09-11-2009, 04:01 PM
why don't some of you come into chat?

It's no T-shirt day!!!

CTA513
09-11-2009, 04:03 PM
why don't some of you come into chat?

It's no T-shirt day!!!

What if you have a t-shirt but no pants?

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:03 PM
why don't some of you come into chat?

It's no T-shirt day!!!

I'm at work right now slyly following along as much as possible between my work stuff and why do I have this uneasy feeling that I don't want to see many of the board members here without their shirts?! :eek: ;)

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:05 PM
What if you have a t-shirt but no pants?

It's cool. Chat is always a pants-free zone.

nate
09-11-2009, 04:13 PM
It's cool. Chat is always a pants-free zone.

We usually play shorts vs. skins.

CTA513
09-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Stubbs walks goes to 2nd on a wild pitch and scores on a Votto single.

1-1 tie game in the 3rd inning

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:18 PM
YAY JOEY! RBI single (and I'm probably way delayed in that reaction but I stepped away from my desk, LOL) :D

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:19 PM
5 walks already for the Reds.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Wow, Harden has walked FIVE guys and it's only the third inning?! That's insane. We HAVE to score more runs when we get handed that many free passes. :eek:

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Another K with RISP. Dusty must be fuming.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Hardin has 81 pitches all ready! Wow. :eek:

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Hardin has 81 pitches all ready! Wow. :eek:

See, the K's are helping to up the pitch count. ;)

oneupper
09-11-2009, 04:29 PM
Hardin has 81 pitches all ready! Wow. :eek:

From now on, anyone who swings with less than two strikes should be fined.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:29 PM
See, the K's are helping to up the pitch count. ;)

Yes, and the five walks he's allowed account for quite a bit of that too, LOL :laugh: :beerme:

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:29 PM
Ugh, Ramirez decides to torture the Reds again. Cubs up 3-1. :bang:

CTA513
09-11-2009, 04:30 PM
3-1 Cubs after Ramirez singles in 2 runs

oneupper
09-11-2009, 04:31 PM
Gomes getting a workout.

Raisor
09-11-2009, 04:36 PM
I was going to watch this game, but decided I'd rather spend the time poking myself in the eye with a sharp stick.

I will probably watch Sunday since my sharp stick is going to be in the shop.

Kc61
09-11-2009, 04:37 PM
This has been a good September. With deadline deals, September call ups, injury replacements, there are a lot of new guys on the team.

September has shown us that this new group -- like the earlier group -- cannot hit. Valuable September.

Getting excited for the meaningful baseball later, the Bats game.

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Reds get another hit!! Tatum singles!!

Shock and awe now consumes RedsZone.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:41 PM
Tatum has occasionally shocked us by getting hits when we least expect it. I guess he decided the fourth inning was a good time to shock us today, LOL ;)

CTA513
09-11-2009, 04:41 PM
Harden now at 99 pitches with 2 outs in the 4th

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:41 PM
Another K with RISP.

Raisor
09-11-2009, 04:42 PM
Another K with RISP.

KRISPY!

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:45 PM
Will Harden come back for the fifth inning or not? That is the million dollar question. Is he over 100 pitches now?

Wow, Justin is only at 47!! :eek:

BRM
09-11-2009, 04:45 PM
At least Stubbs had an excuse. He was trying to avoid hitting into a double play.

CTA513
09-11-2009, 04:45 PM
Harden now up to 103 pitches after 4 innings.

I'm guessing that was his last inning

Kc61
09-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Harden now at 99 pitches with 2 outs in the 4th


Reds could win the pitch count battle today.

The game, no, but the pitch count battle, maybe.

Dusty might start planning for this. For example, I'd stay away from Coco today, he sometimes throws a lot of pitches. That might hurt the Reds' chances of ending the game with fewer pitches.

Of course, if the Cubs don't have to bat in the bottom of the ninth -- and they probably won't -- that helps the Reds mightily in the pitch count fight. One could argue it's not really fair if the Reds' pitchers don't throw the ninth. But we'll take it.

Home run, 4-1 Cubs.

Roy Tucker
09-11-2009, 04:49 PM
I was going to watch this game, but decided I'd rather spend the time poking myself in the eye with a sharp stick.

I will probably watch Sunday since my sharp stick is going to be in the shop.


I've been shoving red hot needles under my fingernails.

Thought I'd take a break and visit the game thread. Looks like the Reds are being the Reds....

back to the needles....

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:49 PM
Man, what happened to Soto? He's only batting .222 and hasn't done much of anything all year. I think his ROY award should be revoked and given to Joey now. ;)

CTA513
09-11-2009, 04:50 PM
Reds could win the pitch count battle today.

The game, no, but the pitch count battle, maybe.

Dusty might start planning for this. For example, I'd stay away from Coco today, he sometimes throws a lot of pitches. That might hurt the Reds' chances of ending the game with fewer pitches.

Of course, if the Cubs don't have to bat in the bottom of the ninth -- and they probably won't -- that helps the Reds mightily in the pitch count fight. One could argue it's not really fair if the Reds' pitchers don't throw the ninth. But we'll take it.

Home run, 4-1 Cubs.

I would rather face the Cubs bullpen for 5 innings then 2 or 3 innings.

oneupper
09-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Man, what happened to Soto? He's only batting .222 and hasn't done much of anything all year. I think his ROY award should be revoked and given to Joey now. ;)

Soto pulling a Joe Charboneau?

oneupper
09-11-2009, 04:53 PM
Is this THE Jeff Stevens?

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Is this THE Jeff Stevens?

Yes, the PTBNL in the Phillips deal.

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 04:55 PM
This Ab will determine whether the trade was a good one. :cool:

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Joey spits dirt on his batting slump again with another single. :D

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
The Phillips trade is now officially a good one. :beerme:

Kc61
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
I would rather face the Cubs bullpen for 5 innings then 2 or 3 innings.

Yes, in terms of the final score, absolutely.

But to win the pitch count battle, I'm not so sure. That Harden throws a lot of pitches.

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 04:59 PM
I would rather face the Cubs bullpen for 5 innings then 2 or 3 innings.

With Harden pitching, odds were good it was going to be 4 innings for the bullpen. His leaving early just means one extra inning for them.

Raisor
09-11-2009, 04:59 PM
I've been shoving red hot needles under my fingernails.

Thought I'd take a break and visit the game thread. Looks like the Reds are being the Reds....

back to the needles....

You might need to lend me some of those needles, I just broke the stick.

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:01 PM
Rolen hits a likely sac fly, but the runner doesn't come in from third. Nice cautious play.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Rolen hits a likely sac fly, but the runner doesn't come in from third. Nice cautious play.

It may not have been hit deep enough. Is anyone watching the game so we can know for sure? Yahoo just says "S. Rolen flied out to center".

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:02 PM
GOMES!!!! :jump:

Tie ball game!

CTA513
09-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Gomes with a 3-run homer

4-4 tie game in the 5th inning

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:03 PM
It may not have been hit deep enough. Is anyone watching the game so we can know for sure? Yahoo just says "S. Rolen flied out to center".

I saw it. It would have been close at home. Fairly deep fly, but not a clearcut situation.

Gomes homers, golfs it out of the park, 4-4.

dougdirt
09-11-2009, 05:03 PM
Jeff Stevens is wearing a RED hat today. Perhaps he forgot he wasn't a Reds player? Thanks Jeff!

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:03 PM
GOMES!! :jump:

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 05:04 PM
It may not have been hit deep enough. Is anyone watching the game so we can know for sure? Yahoo just says "S. Rolen flied out to center".

It was close, but with no outs, no need to take a chance. Votto probably would have been safe if he went.

Especially with Gomes coming up with the ability to hit the ball out of the park. ;)

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:04 PM
Jeff Stevens is wearing a RED hat today. Perhaps he forgot he wasn't a Reds player? Thanks Jeff!

For real?!? That's hilarious. :laugh: :beerme:

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Jonny Gomes clearly is not good at situational hitting. He failed to get a sac fly there. Forced to settle for a three run homer. :cool:

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 05:06 PM
For real?!? That's hilarious. :laugh: :beerme:

All major leaguers are wearing special "Stars and Stripes" hats today in honor of 9/11. They are all red with blue and white trim.

nate
09-11-2009, 05:07 PM
Let's GOMES!

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:09 PM
All major leaguers are wearing special "Stars and Stripes" hats today in honor of 9/11. They are all red with blue and white trim.

I was seriously JUST about to ask if they were wearing those special hats again today! :thumbup: It occured to me after I posted that last comment that they might have done that today. I guess they did a special thing at the beginning of the game for 9-11 too then? I hope so.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:12 PM
Burton warming up

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:13 PM
*whew*

D. Lee to the wall...Stubbs pulls it in. Close.

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 05:16 PM
Burton warming up

Uh-Oh

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:18 PM
SERIOUSLY. Ramirez is such a pest. Just walk him for this entire series. :bang:

CTA513
09-11-2009, 05:18 PM
5-4 Cubs after Lehr gives up another run

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:19 PM
Cubs take the lead. Lehr is out. Burton is in.

Somebody should start a "farewell tour" thread saying goodbye to some of these guys as they make their final appearances as Reds. it would be a long thread.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:20 PM
I've got to agree with Marty on this one. Why pitch to Ramirez with Hoffpauir (sp?) on deck and first base open? That's just dumb.

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:22 PM
Burton ends the inning on a long fly ball.

The '27 Yankees are coming up.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:24 PM
If by '27 Yankees, you mean Hanigan, Stubbs & Janish, then you sir are correct.

Hanigan replaced Tatum with the double switch when Burton came in.

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:32 PM
If by '27 Yankees, you mean Hanigan, Stubbs & Janish, then you sir are correct.

Hanigan replaced Tatum with the double switch when Burton came in.


Lazzeri, Ruth, and Gehrig go down in order. 5-4 Cubs.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:34 PM
Random Comment: A friend of mine named his song Gehrig. :eek:

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:38 PM
As far as I'm concerned, as long as Janish can hit around .250 or so...I'm all for him being the starter. I flat out LOVE watching this kid play defense. He's just so smooth out there and then there's that freaking cannon he's got. Any kind of offense is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned. Him batting second...not so much.

CTA513
09-11-2009, 05:39 PM
1 1/3 scoreless from Burton so far

BRM
09-11-2009, 05:39 PM
As far as I'm concerned, as long as Janish can hit around .250 or so...I'm all for him being the starter. I flat out LOVE watching this kid play defense. He's just so smooth out there and then there's that freaking cannon he's got. Any kind of offense is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

The odds are severely against him ever hitting .250.

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 05:41 PM
Random Comment: A friend of mine named his song Gehrig. :eek:

What if he turns out to be a Red Sox fan?

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:43 PM
As far as I'm concerned, as long as Janish can hit around .250 or so...I'm all for him being the starter. I flat out LOVE watching this kid play defense. He's just so smooth out there and then there's that freaking cannon he's got. Any kind of offense is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned. Him batting second...not so much.


That's fine. Keep Janish. Everyone wants Gomes in left. Everyone loves Hanigan. Everyone loves Bruce. Votto is a must. Phillips is a must. Stubbs is a big improvement. Rolen is a given.

Just how does this pitiful offense improve if all these guys stay?

Big Klu
09-11-2009, 05:47 PM
I was seriously JUST about to ask if they were wearing those special hats again today! :thumbup: It occured to me after I posted that last comment that they might have done that today. I guess they did a special thing at the beginning of the game for 9-11 too then? I hope so.

I think the all-red cap with the road gray uniform looks great! Hopefully somebody is noticing, and we will have seen the last of the red/black road cap after this season.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:48 PM
That's fine. Keep Janish. Everyone wants Gomes in left. Everyone loves Hanigan. Everyone loves Bruce. Votto is a must. Phillips is a must. Stubbs is a big improvement. Rolen is a given.

Just how does this pitiful offense improve if all these guys stay?

By players being healthy? I personally think Bruce bounces back in a big way.

If we keep the same players, I still think this offense will be better than what we've seen this year. It's far from a great offense, but I think it will be good enough for a well balanced team (pitching/defense/offense) and a shot for the division next season. I'm probably in the minority, but I'll gladly sacrifice offense from SS, C and CF for well above average defense. Improve the other slots, fine...but I don't sacrifice defense in those 3 spots.

Big Klu
09-11-2009, 05:48 PM
Random Comment: A friend of mine named his song Gehrig. :eek:


What if he turns out to be a Red Sox fan?

Big deal, it's just a song. :D

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:51 PM
Nice quick 3 up 3 down for DRH.

I don't care HOW many times I watch him, I love watching Herrera pitch. 65 mph changeup there. LOL.

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 05:52 PM
If the scores stays the same, Stevens is due for the win, but he gave up the lead, so if I were the official scorer, I give it to Heilman, if the rule books allows.

CTA513
09-11-2009, 05:52 PM
That's fine. Keep Janish. Everyone wants Gomes in left. Everyone loves Hanigan. Everyone loves Bruce. Votto is a must. Phillips is a must. Stubbs is a big improvement. Rolen is a given.

Just how does this pitiful offense improve if all these guys stay?

By bringing in better players to push some of those guys into being backups or even off the team.

HeatherC1212
09-11-2009, 05:54 PM
What if he turns out to be a Red Sox fan?

That's the kicker...his dad IS a Red Sox fan!! :eek:


That's fine. Keep Janish. Everyone wants Gomes in left. Everyone loves Hanigan. Everyone loves Bruce. Votto is a must. Phillips is a must. Stubbs is a big improvement. Rolen is a given.

Just how does this pitiful offense improve if all these guys stay?

Most of those guys can actually hit. Just because they aren't hitting very well right now doesn't mean they can't hit at all. I think over time Joey, Brandon, and Scott Rolen have all proven that fact. Stubbs is still young, Janish is getting his first taste of starting every day, Gomes was kind of an unknown this year, Hanigan was doing fine as the backup this year and was forced into starting due to injury, and Bruce had a rough year and is now injured and working his way back. There's a few too many question marks for me to judge these guys on anything right now except that they're doing the best they can when the games don't mean anything. And yes, I know that was a very long ramble for a game thread, LOL :laugh:

Kc61
09-11-2009, 05:56 PM
By players being healthy? I personally think Bruce bounces back in a big way.

If we keep the same players, I still think this offense will be better than what we've seen this year. It's far from a great offense, but I think it will be good enough for a well balanced team (pitching/defense/offense) and a shot for the division next season. I'm probably in the minority, but I'll gladly sacrifice offense from SS, C and CF for well above average defense. Improve the other slots, fine...but I don't sacrifice defense in those 3 spots.

Recipe for disaster. Don't fall in love with your losing players. They will keep losing for you.

The Reds need offensive upgrades at left field, shortstop, and catcher. One of the centerfielders has to come around. And Bruce must come around, which is no given. You may think he bounces back in a big way, but right now he is a .207 hitter with a sub-.300 OBP. And they need more hitting depth.

The Reds play in an offensive stadium and have the worst offensive numbers in the National League. That is no easy feat to accomplish.

It won't change by standing pat, health or no health.

GAC
09-11-2009, 05:57 PM
We've went from NO shirts to NO pants in chat! :D

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Barker PH'ing for Hererra. I've never been a fan, but Barker's done quite well since he's been up.

RichRed
09-11-2009, 06:00 PM
We've went from NO shirts to NO pants in chat! :D

Raisor must've shown up.

Kc61
09-11-2009, 06:02 PM
By bringing in better players to push some of those guys into being backups or even off the team.

Right.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 06:05 PM
Recipe for disaster. Don't fall in love with your losing players. They will keep losing for you.

The Reds need offensive upgrades at left field, shortstop, and catcher. One of the centerfielders has to come around. And Bruce must come around, which is no given. You may think he bounces back in a big way, but right now he is a .207 hitter with a sub-.300 OBP. And they need more hitting depth.

The Reds play in an offensive stadium and have the worst offensive numbers in the National League. That is no easy feat to accomplish.

It won't change by standing pat, health or no health.

Agree to disagree.

Hanigan has hit .272 with an OBP of .365. 25 k's compared to 33 BB's. He may not have power, but that's a perfectly servicable offensive catcher especially when you figure in his excellent defensive work.

Left field seems to be the perfect place to upgrade this team. But Gomes is doing his best to put that issue to rest. In only 240 ab's he's hitting right around .280 with 19 dingers. His defense has been considered his weakest link but I haven't seen it this season. He's played a fairly decent leftfield from what I've seen.

As for short, sure, I'd LOVE to see an offensive threat out there like Larkin while still playing excellent defense. However I just don't see one available. Do you? I see hitting SS's that can't field and I see fielding SS's that can't hit. So, if you've got to choose between those two options...I go for the glove. If you see one out there that's available, put that name out there, because I'd love to see it (other than Hardy...and I'm just really not sure about him after this year).

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 06:16 PM
Wow, Stubbs is as fast as I've seen a Reds player since Neon.

redsmetz
09-11-2009, 06:17 PM
An update? I'm holding on the phone and had to turn the game off.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 06:17 PM
2 men on for Vottomatic! Let's go Joey!!!

Kc61
09-11-2009, 06:20 PM
Agree to disagree.

Hanigan has hit .272 with an OBP of .365. 25 k's compared to 33 BB's. He may not have power, but that's a perfectly servicable offensive catcher especially when you figure in his excellent defensive work.

Left field seems to be the perfect place to upgrade this team. But Gomes is doing his best to put that issue to rest. In only 240 ab's he's hitting right around .280 with 19 dingers. His defense has been considered his weakest link but I haven't seen it this season. He's played a fairly decent leftfield from what I've seen.

As for short, sure, I'd LOVE to see an offensive threat out there like Larkin while still playing excellent defense. However I just don't see one available. Do you? I see hitting SS's that can't field and I see fielding SS's that can't hit. So, if you've got to choose between those two options...I go for the glove. If you see one out there that's available, put that name out there, because I'd love to see it (other than Hardy...and I'm just really not sure about him after this year).


So in other words, we're stuck with Hanigan, Gomes and Janish as starters next year. Pretty defeatist, I would say.

Hanigan is ok as a part time catcher. But that's about it. In 227 at bats this year, he had 9 RBIs. 9. His OPS was ok at one point but now is below .700. Lots of hype, but not enough production. The Reds can keep him, but he is not a plus everyday catcher.

Gomes has struck out 80 times this year, more than one third of his official at bats. That is a very high rate. If you fail to make contact over one third of the time, your chances of winding up with very good numbers are thin.

Janish is a fine fielder. He could start on a strong offensive team, hitting eighth. On the Reds, his lack of offense compounds the problem. Who is there out there? Scutoro on Toronto, for one. But don't you think it's a bit early to give up on upgrading shortstop for next year? It's only September.

You can argue about this group forever, it has been a disaster on offense. These same players will not succeed offensively. Upgrade or watch the rerun next year.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 06:20 PM
Votto strikes out and looked bad doing it. 2 down. Stubbs on second, Janish on first.

TheNext44
09-11-2009, 06:22 PM
So in other words, we're stuck with Hanigan, Gomes and Janish. Pretty defeatist, I would say.

Hanigan is ok as a part time catcher. But that's about it. In 227 at bats this year, he had 9 RBIs. 9. His OPS was ok at one point but now is below .700. Lots of hype, but not enough production. The Reds can keep him, but he is not a plus everyday catcher.

Gomes has struck out 80 times this year, more than one third of his official at bats. That is a very high rate. If you fail to make contact over one third of the time, your chances of winding up with very good numbers are thin.

Janish is a fine fielder. He could start on a strong offensive team, hitting eighth. On the Reds, his lack of offense compounds the problem. Who is there out there? Scutoro on Toronto, for one. But don't you think it's a bit early to give up on upgrading shortstop for next year? It's only September.

You can argue about this group forever, it has been a disaster on offense. These same players will not succeed offensively. Upgrade or watch the rerun next year.

I would be very surprised if all three are everyday players next season. I think Jocketty agrees with you.

Spring~Fields
09-11-2009, 06:32 PM
Final Chi Cubs 6, Cincinnati 4

Scoring Summary
Bot 2nd: Chi Cubs
- G. Soto hit sacrifice fly to right center, A. Ramirez scored

Top 3rd: Cincinnati
- J. Votto singled to shallow left, D. Stubbs scored

Bot 3rd: Chi Cubs
- A. Ramirez singled to shallow left, M. Bradley and D. Lee scored, A. Ramirez to second advancing on throw

Bot 4th: Chi Cubs
- G. Soto homered to deep left center

Top 5th: Cincinnati
- J. Gomes homered to deep left, J. Votto and B. Phillips scored

Bot 5th: Chi Cubs
- A. Ramirez singled to shallow left, K. Fukudome scored

Bot 8th: Chi Cubs
- B. Scales doubled to right center, A. Ramirez scored

Cincinnati Batting
HR - J Gomes (19, 5th inning off J Stevens 2 on, 1 Out).

S - J Lehr.

RBI - J Votto (69), J Gomes 3 (48).

Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - P Janish 1, B Phillips 1, J Gomes 3.

Team LOB - 9.

Base Running
SB - D Stubbs 2 (5, 2nd base off R Harden/G Soto, 3rd base off R Harden/G Soto), P Janish (1, 2nd base off R Harden/G Soto).

Fielding
DP - 1 (J Votto-P Janish).

Chicago Batting
2B - D Lee (31, J Lehr); B Scales (5, N Masset).

HR - G Soto (10, 4th inning off J Lehr 0 on, 1 Out).

SF - G Soto.

RBI - A Ramirez 3 (54), B Scales (9), G Soto 2 (37).

2-out RBI - A Ramirez 3.

Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - M Hoffpauir 2, G Soto 1.

GIDP - M Bradley.

Team LOB - 4.

Base Running
SB - A Ramirez (1, 2nd base off J Burton/R Hanigan).

[b]Pitching[\b]


IP H R ER BB K HR WHIP Season ERA
J. Lehr 4.2 5 5 5 3 1 1 1.48 4.93 (L, 4-2)
J. Burton 1.1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.55 5.14
D. Herrera 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.40 2.95
N. Masset 1.0 2 1 1 0 1 0 1.06 2.76


IP H R ER BB K HR WHIP Season ERA
R. Harden 4.0 2 1 1 5 6 0 1.31 4.04
J. Stevens 1.0 3 3 3 0 0 1 1.80 9.72 (W, 1-0)
A. Heilman 2.0 0 0 0 0 3 0 1.45 4.22
E. Caridad 1.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1.29 2.89
C. Marmol 1.0 1 0 0 1 2 0 1.42 3.24 (S, 12)


WP - J Lehr, C Marmol, R Harden.

HPB - A Ramirez (by J Lehr).

Pitches-strikes - J Burton 15-10; D Herrera 7-6; N Masset 19-14; J Lehr 82-47; A Heilman 34-22; E Caridad 16-9; C Marmol 28-16; R Harden 104-59; J Stevens 26-19.

Ground balls-fly balls - J Burton 3-1; D Herrera 1-2; N Masset 2-1; J Lehr 6-8; A Heilman 1-2; E Caridad 0-2; C Marmol 1-1; R Harden 1-5; J Stevens 1-3.

Batters faced - J Burton 4; D Herrera 3; N Masset 5; J Lehr 22; A Heilman 6; E Caridad 3; C Marmol 5; R Harden 20; J Stevens 6.



AB R H RBI HR BB K SB LOB Season Avg
D. Stubbs cf 3 1 1 0 0 2 1 2 2 .250
P. Janish ss 3 0 0 0 0 2 1 1 3 .207
J. Votto 1b 5 1 2 1 0 0 3 0 4 .299
B. Phillips 2b 4 1 1 0 0 1 2 0 4 .275
S. Rolen 3b 3 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 4 .268
J. Gomes lf 4 1 1 3 1 0 0 0 5 .279
D. McDonald rf 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .211
C. Tatum c 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .175
J. Burton p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
D. Herrera p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
K. Barker ph 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .348
N. Masset p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
J. Lehr p 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .125
R. Hanigan c 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .271
Totals 33 4 6 4 1 6 12 3 22

CTA513
09-11-2009, 06:32 PM
So in other words, we're stuck with Hanigan, Gomes and Janish as starters next year. Pretty defeatist, I would say.

Hanigan is ok as a part time catcher. But that's about it. In 227 at bats this year, he had 9 RBIs. 9. His OPS was ok at one point but now is below .700. Lots of hype, but not enough production. The Reds can keep him, but he is not a plus everyday catcher.

Gomes has struck out 80 times this year, more than one third of his official at bats. That is a very high rate. If you fail to make contact over one third of the time, your chances of winding up with very good numbers are thin.

Janish is a fine fielder. He could start on a strong offensive team, hitting eighth. On the Reds, his lack of offense compounds the problem. Who is there out there? Scutoro on Toronto, for one. But don't you think it's a bit early to give up on upgrading shortstop for next year? It's only September.

You can argue about this group forever, it has been a disaster on offense. These same players will not succeed offensively. Upgrade or watch the rerun next year.

Its up to the Reds to put out the money to upgrade at those positions.
If the payroll is still frozen then we will see the same crap again.

_Sir_Charles_
09-11-2009, 06:43 PM
As I said, I've got no problems with the Reds upgrading those positions. I just don't want to see them sacrifice defense at SS, C or CF in order to do it. That, plus I don't see that many options open to us at those positions. Scutoro is a possibility. I haven't seen him play but a couple of times, so I'm not that familiar with him.

Spring~Fields
09-11-2009, 07:23 PM
That's fine. Keep Janish. Everyone wants Gomes in left. Everyone loves Hanigan. Everyone loves Bruce. Votto is a must. Phillips is a must. Stubbs is a big improvement. Rolen is a given.

Just how does this pitiful offense improve if all these guys stay?



OBP SLG OPS Vs. LH Pitching
C. Dickerson .373 .375 .748 .333 .306 .639
B. Phillips .330 .453 .783 .366 .598 .964
Joey Votto .393 .523 .915 .378 .525 .903
Jonny Gomes .349 .563 .912 .385 .561 .946
Scott Rolen .355 .366 .721 .449 .545 .994
Ryan Hanigan .364 .328 .691 .370 .354 .724
Jay Bruce .283 .441 .725 .276 .280 .556
Paul Janish .294 .287 .581 .250 .245 .495





OBP SLG OPS Vs. RH Pitching
C. Dickerson .373 .375 .748 .333 .306 .639
Jay Bruce .283 .441 .725 .286 .515 .801
Joey Votto .393 .523 .915 .399 .524 .923
Jonny Gomes .349 .563 .912 .333 .552 .885
Scott Rolen .355 .366 .721 .340 .430 .770
Ryan Hanigan .364 .328 .691 .365 .324 .689
B. Phillips .330 .453 .783 .317 .408 .725
Paul Janish .294 .287 .581 .307 .311 .618


I had to adapt and make some corrections. I almost pulled a Dusty.