Kanye West selfishly steals stage from Swift

[DTCromer]

If you saw what happened on the awards show tonight, then you'd agree.

[GIDP]

I think its safe to say its probably true.

[OldRightHander]

I didn't see what happened, but I'll still agree with you anyway.

[11larkin11]

I was just going to post this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9zmg4PabhQ

[Caveat Emperor]

Wow -- I really dislike Taylor Swift, but you have to feel terrible for her. She's up there, clearly thrilled to be winning an award, and Kayne West walks in and just craps all over her moment.

What an incredibly vain, selfish, and mean thing to do.

Having said that, I wouldn't be shocked if the whole thing was staged by MTV to generate interest in the VMAs (an amusing show for them to produce, since the network is more "spoiled rich girl reality tv" than music videos anymore).

[AccordinglyReds]

Wow...VMAs? I had no idea those were still going on.

Anyway, yeah I've never liked Kanye West, and stunts like this make him look like a fool he is. I very much enjoy Swift's music, so he should just go dress himself in the dark again.

[Playadlc]

Wow -- I really dislike Taylor Swift, but you have to feel terrible for her. She's up there, clearly thrilled to be winning an award, and Kayne West walks in and just craps all over her moment.

What an incredibly vain, selfish, and mean thing to do.

Having said that, I wouldn't be shocked if the whole thing was staged by MTV to generate interest in the VMAs (an amusing show for them to produce, since the network is more "spoiled rich girl reality tv" than music videos anymore).

Completely agree with this. BS move.

[Slyder]

Wow -- I really dislike Taylor Swift, but you have to feel terrible for her. She's up there, clearly thrilled to be winning an award, and Kayne West walks in and just craps all over her moment.

What an incredibly vain, selfish, and mean thing to do.

Having said that, I wouldn't be shocked if the whole thing was staged by MTV to generate interest in the VMAs (an amusing show for them to produce, since the network is more "spoiled rich girl reality tv" than music videos anymore).

The guy is a dumbass and part of the reason I dont watch any of the stroking egos shows like this. Cant stand him, can barely stand most "musicians" any more. Did find it funny hearing that he got roundly boood later.

Should get the same treatment as Serena did from the tennis outburst and uncerimoniously booted from all shows that have more than 100 people watching.

[Playadlc]

Fishsticks + Me = Gayfish.

[Tom Servo]

It was nice of Beyonce to bring Taylor back out and let her give her thanks.

[MWM]

This will only sell more records for this guy. It will only increase his stature among his demographic.

[Highlifeman21]

This will only sell more records for this guy. It will only increase his stature among his demographic.

Gotta buy/gain street cred somehow.

And you're absolutely right, Kanye's gonna make plenty more bank b/c of this stunt.

[Slyder]

Gotta buy/gain street cred somehow.

And you're absolutely right, Kanye's gonna make plenty more bank b/c of this stunt.

With such great role models like this worthless waste of time, its hard to understand why children are so screwed up....


/end sarcasm.

[New Fever]

This will only sell more records for this guy. It will only increase his stature among his demographic.

So basically you are saying that young black people will buy his music because he is a terrible person. That is very racist, Kanye West represents himself he sure as hell doesn't represent my race.

[dougdirt]

So basically you are saying that young black people will buy his music because he is a terrible person. That is very racist, Kanye West represents himself he sure as hell doesn't represent my race.

You do know that non black people buy the majority of all hip hop right?

[New Fever]

You do know that non black people buy the majority of all hip hop right?

Yes I know that, I just hate when people try to associate young black America with people who do idiotic things. Many of my friends who are black said they would never by a Kanye West album again after tonight.

[dougdirt]

Yes I know that, I just hate when people try to associate young black America with people who do idiotic things. Many of my friends who are black said they would never by a Kanye West album again after tonight.

People of all colors/races/genders do very dumb things all the time. Those who pretend that its somehow related to a race are just sadly mistaken. I will probably buy a Kanye album in the future. He may not be classy, but unless he does something terrible (assaulting a woman/rape/murder.... something along those lines) I can get past his selfishness in order to listen to his music.

[reds1869]

I'll be curious to see what my wife's students think of this. She's a music teacher in an urban school where many of the kids like Kanye West, so I'm sure it will come up. I just wish everyone could grasp the concept of respect...Kanye sure can't.

[Dom Heffner]

You do know that non black people buy the majority of all hip hop right?

Well, since the poplation of the U.S. is made up of 86.5% non-blacks, this fact never meant that much to me.

Sure, the number of people purchasing it is higher, but wouldn't that be because Blacks are outnumbered by 260 million people, not because a higher percentage of whites buy it versus a higher percentage of Blacks?

This doesn't do anything to your point, doug-non Blacks still make up the larger part of the Demographic- I'm just pointing out that whites buying more hip hop has more to do with there being more white people than anything. You hear the number of "80%" of hip sales are white people, but I don't think 80% of white people listen to hip hop.

The distinction is an important one the media never, ever makes.

If Blacks even made up just 10% of the sales, I"d still venture to say a higher percentage of that race listens to the music.

I think this is where New Fever's point comes from.

And to add: The real winner here is MTV.

As a side note, that "80%" figure has been widely debated, and there is some very interesting research on the web. There are some that believe the 80% was reported by Newsweek without much to back it up and then used to raise ad revenue for Top 40 radio stations. No idea how much credence, but an interesting thing to read about, nonetheless.

[SeeinRed]

This only becomes racist when you make it that way. We're above this type of stuff here at Redszone, or at least I thought we were. Its just about one individual doing something stupid. His stunt will probably generate more sales because "today's young people" think it is funny. Look at shows like Jacka$$. Stupidity gets money, and this guy sure seems to corner that market. Reguardless of race, this will get a lot of young people talking.

[TRF]

doesn't matter the race of his demographic or how it's broken down. His demographic, white, black, latino, martian, whatever want to see stupid antics like this. I don't watch these shows. don't listen her or his music, though my youngest and oldest daughters do listen to Taylor Swift.

There is such a thing as dignity and respect. I'm sure Kanye West demands respect from anyone he meets, but he doesn't know the meaning of the word if that clip is any example.

[durl]

I get a little ticked when I see people that demand respect (or "cred") give absolutely none to others.

[WVRed]

So basically you are saying that young black people will buy his music because he is a terrible person. That is very racist, Kanye West represents himself he sure as hell doesn't represent my race.

What really bothers me is that ultimately the race card will come out in all of this.

Kanye is going to take a lot of heat and rightfully so. He will turn around and spin it as everybody is "hating on him" because he is black, not because he embarrassed a young starlet on stage.

Beyonce is IMO a complete and total class act for the way she handled the situation.

It also wouldn't surprise me if this was also staged. As Dom said, MTV is going to be the only winner in all of this. Award shows always have controversy, such as Sacha Baron Cohen's stunt with Eminem, which supposedly was staged.

[MWM]

So basically you are saying that young black people will buy his music because he is a terrible person. That is very racist, Kanye West represents himself he sure as hell doesn't represent my race.

Who says that young black people is his target demographic? Not me.

And Dom, trust me, as marketing person the record executives are targeting whoever is buying the most records.

[PedroBourbon]

Beyonce is IMO a complete and total class act for the way she handled the situation.


Absolutely. The way that she handled the situation and got Swift back on stage without pointing fingers was great.

[KittyDuran]

Wow...VMAs? I had no idea those were still going on.
My first thought...


It also wouldn't surprise me if this was also staged. As Dom said, MTV is going to be the only winner in all of this.

My second thought...


And you're absolutely right, Kanye's gonna make plenty more bank b/c of this stunt.

My third thought...

:)

[OldRightHander]

The main point isn't really color, but the hip hop culture in general. The people who are into that whole lifestyle, black or white, pretty much behave the same way, regardless of what color they are.

[Reds4Life]

I'm sure Beyonce was horribly embarassed as well.

[WVRed]

I'm sure Beyonce was horribly embarassed as well.

She was. When they flashed the camera on her, you could see the "Oh my God" on her face.

[camisadelgolf]

I love Kanye's music, and even though he was out of line, there's no such thing as bad publicity. I really don't think this move makes him an idiot. Speaking of which, mods, could we please get a title change for this thread? If one of us started a thread titled "[insert baseball player's name here] is an idiot", it would've been locked a long time ago. Why would this be an exception?

[paintmered]

I love Kanye's music, and even though he was out of line, there's no such thing as bad publicity. I really don't think this move makes him an idiot. Speaking of which, mods, could we please get a title change for this thread? If one of us started a thread titled "[insert baseball player's name here] is an idiot", it would've been locked a long time ago. Why would this be an exception?

Because it's true? Okay okay, I'll change it... How about, "Kanye West kills defenseless kittens for fun"? or "Kanye West still likes to put fish sticks in his mouth"?

I better change it to something boring instead.

[WMR]

Just calling him an 'idiot' is being kind.

[Razor Shines]

Just calling him an 'idiot' is being kind.

Something A and H related comes to mind.

[UKFlounder]

Ahab? :)


Something A and H related comes to mind.

[Razor Shines]

Ahab? :)

Totally. Kanye is a huge ahab, and what he did last night was an ahab move.

[TeamSelig]

So, what exactly did he do? The video was taken down.

[camisadelgolf]

Because it's true? Okay okay, I'll change it... How about, "Kanye West kills defenseless kittens for fun"? or "Kanye West still likes to put fish sticks in his mouth"?

I better change it to something boring instead.
Well, the 'idiot' in question is a critically-acclaimed millionaire who has made some of the best-selling hip-hop albums of all-time. If that's being an idiot, feel free to call me an idiot wannabe. How about I start a thread titled 'Dusty Baker is an idiot' and see where it goes? At least his idiotic behavior has been better-documented. Or would it be better if I started with John Lennon since he idiotically claimed The Beatles were bigger than Jesus?

I thought RedsZone was above name-calling. Apparently I was wrong. :thumbdown

[redsmetz]

Kudos to Beyonce Knowles for being an absolute class act. Very kind of her to call the young woman up to share the stage and get her chance to thank folks.

[redsmetz]

So, what exactly did he do? The video was taken down.

The girl, Taylor Swift, who won the award was beginning her speech when West came on stage, took the mike from her, and said Beyonce deserved the award because she made the best video of all time. As I noted in my previous post, Beyonce, after winning the video of the year award, recalled the feeling she had at 17 winning her first award and called Swift back out to have a chance for her moment too. Very classy of her, really warped by West. Having talent doesn't make up for being classless.

[Dom Heffner]

Well, the 'idiot' in question is a critically-acclaimed millionaire who has made some of the best-selling hip-hop albums of all-time. If that's being an idiot, feel free to call me an idiot wannabe. How about I start a thread titled 'Dusty Baker is an idiot' and see where it goes? At least his idiotic behavior has been better-documented. Or would it be better if I started with John Lennon since he idiotically claimed The Beatles were bigger than Jesus?

I thought RedsZone was above name-calling. Apparently I was wrong. :thumbdown

Just, wow. Listen- if you can't grasp the fact that jumping on stage to whine about who lost and taking up the airtime for the person who won isn't an idiotic thing, then you're beyond help.

Respect is earned, and once you've shown you can't respect others, there's nothing left to say sometimes but to call someone an idiot.

Are you proposing that because someone sells millions of records, they are above criticism for their behavior? Seriously?

You know, if you judge respect by how many records someone sells, maybe you should give Taylor Swidt a little respect becuase she outsold Kanye's butt last year.

[Dom Heffner]

I love Kanye's music, and even though he was out of line, there's no such thing as bad publicity. I really don't think this move makes him an idiot. Speaking of which, mods, could we please get a title change for this thread? If one of us started a thread titled "[insert baseball player's name here] is an idiot", it would've been locked a long time ago. Why would this be an exception?

Yes, there is such a thing as bad publicity. Ask Serena Williams. Ask Michael Phelps. Ask Jimmy the Greek.

[Dom Heffner]

Who says that young black people is his target demographic? Not me.

And Dom, trust me, as marketing person the record executives are targeting whoever is buying the most records.

Just so you know, MWM, I did not take what you said as racist, but I could see how New Fever could have, which the only reason I chimed in.

Perhaps more whites than blacks buy hip-hop, but it is mostly Blacks making the music, so it would be tough not to take criticism of hip hop personally.

And again, the only reason more whites buy it is they make up a larger consumer base, not becuase the music relates more to whites than blacks- though, one could argue the music appeals to people in urban areas, and hey, 85% of us live there.

I disagree wholeheartedly that this will sell Kanye more records. I'm not connecting the dots as to how dissing Taylor Swift sells more West records.

[camisadelgolf]

Just, wow. Listen- if you can't grasp the fact that jumping on stage to whine about who lost and taking up the airtime for the person who won isn't an idiotic thing, then you're beyond help.

Respect is earned, and once you've shown you can't respect others, there's nothing left to say sometimes but to call someone an idiot.

Are you proposing that because someone sells millions of records, they are above criticism for their behavior? Seriously?

You know, if you judge respect by how many records someone sells, maybe you should give Taylor Swidt a little respect becuase she outsold Kanye's butt last year.
Kanye West was undoubtedly disrespectful, and what he did was most likely idiotic. I'm not defending what he did in any way whatsoever. However, I thought this site took pride in how classy it is, and if that's truly the case, the rules wouldn't be enforced so inconsistently. If I were to start a thread titled 'Brandon Phillips is an idiot' (remember when he didn't know the difference between a break and a fracture?), I would receive a warning, suspension, or ban. If someone were to start a thread titled 'camisadelgolf is an idiot', even if I did something idiotic, I would expect actions to be made.

Once again, I'm not saying Kanye was correct--in fact, I think he deserves to be criticized more heavily for a lot of the things he has done in the past--but to personally attack someone you don't personally know is another example of an idiotic thing to do in my opinion.

[Raisor]

I like Taylor Swift.

There.

[guttle11]

I like Taylor Swift.

There.

Me too.

[camisadelgolf]

Me too.

[Joseph]

Kanye West was undoubtedly disrespectful, and what he did was most likely idiotic. I'm not defending what he did in any way whatsoever. However, I thought this site took pride in how classy it is, and if that's truly the case, the rules wouldn't be enforced so inconsistently. If I were to start a thread titled 'Brandon Phillips is an idiot' (remember when he didn't know the difference between a break and a fracture?), I would receive a warning, suspension, or ban. If someone were to start a thread titled 'camisadelgolf is an idiot', even if I did something idiotic, I would expect actions to be made.

Once again, I'm not saying Kanye was correct--in fact, I think he deserves to be criticized more heavily for a lot of the things he has done in the past--but to personally attack someone you don't personally know is another example of an idiotic thing to do in my opinion.

You put it better that time than the first time camisadelgolf. Basically your other post came across as 'he can't be an idiot because he is rich and has talent'. You presented a better case this time.

[Dom Heffner]

Kanye West was undoubtedly disrespectful, and what he did was most likely idiotic. I'm not defending what he did in any way whatsoever. However, I thought this site took pride in how classy it is, and if that's truly the case, the rules wouldn't be enforced so inconsistently. If I were to start a thread titled 'Brandon Phillips is an idiot' (remember when he didn't know the difference between a break and a fracture?), I would receive a warning, suspension, or ban. If someone were to start a thread titled 'camisadelgolf is an idiot', even if I did something idiotic, I would expect actions to be made.

Once again, I'm not saying Kanye was correct--in fact, I think he deserves to be criticized more heavily for a lot of the things he has done in the past--but to personally attack someone you don't personally know is another example of an idiotic thing to do in my opinion.

The Brandon Phillips example would be totally inappropriate, I agree- to not know the difference between a break and a fracture is ignorance, not stupidity.

Kanye's actions weren't done out of ignorance. It's not like he didn't know that was not okay.

The larger theme here, which the media will not touch, is that West's actions could seriously be considered racist. I mean, he wouldn't have gotten up there for Pink, would he?

I think we just have to agree to disagree- I don't think calling someone who did what he did last night an idiot is a personal attack. I think it's deserved criticism.

[TRF]

The Brandon Phillips example would be totally inappropriate, I agree- to not know the difference between a break and a fracture is ignorance, not stupidity.

Kanye's actions weren't done out of ignorance. It's not like he didn't know that was not okay.

The larger theme here, which the media will not touch, is that West's actions could seriously be considered racist. I mean, he wouldn't have gotten up there for Pink, would he?

I think we just have to agree to disagree- I don't think calling someone who did what he did last night an idiot is a personal attack. I think it's deserved criticism.

quoted for truth

[TC81190]

The Brandon Phillips example would be totally inappropriate, I agree- to not know the difference between a break and a fracture is ignorance, not stupidity.

Kanye's actions weren't done out of ignorance. It's not like he didn't know that was not okay.

The larger theme here, which the media will not touch, is that West's actions could seriously be considered racist. I mean, he wouldn't have gotten up there for Pink, would he?

I think we just have to agree to disagree- I don't think calling someone who did what he did last night an idiot is a personal attack. I think it's deserved criticism.
I wouldn't go there, with the whole racism angle. I think you're trying to find something that isn't there.

I don't think he would've gone up there for Pink, no, but I think that would have more to do with Kanye actually liking the Beyonce video more than it would have to do with the fact that Beyonce is black and Taylor Swift is a white girl. At the same time, I think it would be entirely impossible that he would've done the same thing if you replaced Taylor Swift with another black artist.

[Will M]

Fishsticks + Me = Gayfish.

The only reason I have any idea who Kanye West even is was because of this.

[Dom Heffner]

I wouldn't go there, with the whole racism angle. I think you're trying to find something that isn't there.

I don't think he would've gone up there for Pink, no, but I think that would have more to do with Kanye actually liking the Beyonce video more than it would have to do with the fact that Beyonce is black and Taylor Swift is a white girl. At the same time, I think it would be entirely impossible that he would've done the same thing if you replaced Taylor Swift with another black artist.

What if he liked the Pink video as much? Would Kanye jump onstage for Pink?

[RBA]

Has anyone but me asked?

Who's Taylor Swift?

[RedsBaron]

Politico has now reported that ABC reporter Terry Moran has "reported" on Twitter that someone rather well known has commented on this incident and said that Kanye West was a "jackass." The someone allegedly making that comment was President Barack Obama. :thumbup:
The comment was to be "off the record."

[BCubb2003]

There hasn't been this much fuss since Charlie Rich set John Denver's envelope on fire.

[OnBaseMachine]

I like Taylor Swift.

There.

Me too. Incredibly beautiful girl and a great singer.

[oneupper]

Has anyone but me asked?

Who's Taylor Swift?

Very attractive, very young country singer. I didn't know either until she was mentioned on a thread here a few months ago.

Now, forever linked with gayfish.

[Caveat Emperor]

I like Taylor Swift.

There.

She's very pretty, very talented, and has a beautiful voice.

Which is exactly why I can't stand the fact that all her songs seem to be whining about how guys don't like her. I mean, who knew wealthy, attractive, talented artists got ignored so frequently?

[BigPoppa]

Politico has now reported that ABC reporter Terry Moran has "reported" on Twitter that someone rather well known has commented on this incident and said that Kanye West was a "jackass." The someone allegedly making that comment was President Barack Obama. :thumbup:
The comment was to be "off the record."

If true, that's one of the most endearing things that President Obama has done, IMO.

Kanye West has consistently shown himself to be completely classless. No amount of money, sales, or talent can change that.

[BigPoppa]

There hasn't been this much fuss since Charlie Rich set John Denver's envelope on fire.

GREAT reference :thumbup:

[Dom Heffner]

She's very pretty, very talented, and has a beautiful voice.

Which is exactly why I can't stand the fact that all her songs seem to be whining about how guys don't like her. I mean, who knew wealthy, attractive, talented artists got ignored so frequently?

It is my understanding that she was not very attractive in high school- not popular, nobody talked to her, apparently.

Makeovers are a wonderful thing.

I can look at her and see the nerd, I can.

Hate to say it, but I think she is amazing. Great pop hooks- she did Crossroads with Def Leppard and they gave her all the respect in the world.

[Dom Heffner]

And yes, the Charlie Rich and John Denver reference was awesome!!!!

Get me a Richard Dawson one and you're my hero.

[RedsBaron]

And yes, the Charlie Rich and John Denver reference was awesome!!!!

Get me a Richard Dawson one and you're my hero.

Charlie Rich was reportedly drunk when he burned the envelope.
I just saw a brief clip on the local news about Jay Leno's new show. Kanye West was one of his guests. When Leno asked West about what he did to Swift and what his mother would think (I gather West's mother is deceased--not sure of that), West was silent and appeared to tear up. What West did to Swift was wrong, but at least his response to Leno's question was appropriate and he gave the appearance of being at least somewhat contrite.

[missionhockey21]

West's mother passed away in the last year or two, they were rather close.

[Donder]

On Leno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ofKepheEZ4

Is it just me or did it seem like Leno didn't really want to be doing that interview? I'm impressed that Leno asked tough questions and didn't give Kanye a pass.

[GAC]

Yes I know that, I just hate when people try to associate young black America with people who do idiotic things. Many of my friends who are black said they would never by a Kanye West album again after tonight.

He wasn't attempting to associate SOLEY young black people. Go back and read what he posted. He referred to his DEMOGRAPHICS, which is very inclusive.

[GAC]

Just calling him an 'idiot' is being kind.

Read this morning that Obama called him a jack***

http://news.bostonherald.com/track/celebrity/view/20090915kanye_west_dissed_by_president_obama/srvc=home&position=recent

And I thought what Beyonce, and the audience, did afterwards, was nothing but classy.

[Falls City Beer]

What is "the whole hiphop culture?"

[WVRed]

She's very pretty, very talented, and has a beautiful voice.

Which is exactly why I can't stand the fact that all her songs seem to be whining about how guys don't like her. I mean, who knew wealthy, attractive, talented artists got ignored so frequently?

That about sums it up for me.

She is very easy on the eyes, but her songs are so depressing, somewhat juvenile (Our Song) and even for the most part sound alike.

Here are some songs to check out by her:

White Horse (depressing all the way around)
Tim McGraw (about missing a guy)
Teardrops on my Guitar (about a guy she has a crush on)
Should've Said No (about a guy who cheated on her)
Love Story (Romeo and Juliet, actually the only one I really like)
You Belong With Me (the song that Kanye dissed her on, again about another guy she has a crush on)
Our Song (See above, my girlfriend even had that as a ringtone for me, lol)

Her type of music really isn't my favorite, but I did find it slightly amusing that Joe Jonas of the Jonas Brothers (who's claim to fame is the purity rings and wholesome entertainment) dated her and broke up with her in a phone call that lasted like 30 seconds. Hated it for Taylor, but it does look bad on Joe Jonas IMO.

Speaking of gayfish, South Park is airing the gayfish episode four times in a row tonight.

[Unassisted]

It's looking more and more like the whole thing was a setup. The article at the link below discusses some of the speculation I heard in media and PR circles yesterday.

Kanye West Taylor Swift diss at VMAs - A set up? (http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977811230)

[IslandRed]

She is very easy on the eyes, but her songs are so depressing, somewhat juvenile (Our Song) and even for the most part sound alike.

Well, she's a teenage girl, they emote for a living (to borrow a line from a comic strip), and she writes her own songs. Not my style, but I guess it's more honest than the faux world-weariness a lot of young singers try to pass off.

As for West, remember when he stormed out of some awards show because he lost to Gretchen Wilson? If he'd tried this stunt with her, she'd have broken the trophy over his head.

[GIDP]

Read this morning that Obama called him a jack***

http://news.bostonherald.com/track/celebrity/view/20090915kanye_west_dissed_by_president_obama/srvc=home&position=recent

And I thought what Beyonce, and the audience, did afterwards, was nothing but classy.

I can only imagine West response to Obama :bowrofl:

I bet it involves Obama not caring about someone.

[JaxRed]

It's looking more and more like the whole thing was a setup. The article at the link below discusses some of the speculation I heard in media and PR circles yesterday.

Kanye West Taylor Swift diss at VMAs - A set up? (http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977811230)

All this guy says is "I wonder if it was a setup"?

[Unassisted]

All this guy says is "I wonder if it was a setup"?Actually he says "But then it occurred to me that MTV may have put him up to it. MTV loves to have controversies occur because they can create VMA moment shows. They probably thought a Kanye West outburst would be a great one to add."

There's no incentive for MTV to own up to this being a stunt, so all it can be is speculation at this point. At least until one of the 3 principals involved in this fesses up. That may take years.

IMHO, it's all way too neat. Now that Kanye has cried and apologized on Leno, 2 days later, every artist involved has come out of this "incident" smelling like a rose. Plus NBC and MTV gained some priceless publicity for shows on their network.

[JaxRed]

I think most people aren't swayed by the whole "cry and apologize" thing. He's still a jackass to about 90% of the people that know about this.

I don't think it was a setup.

[Chip R]

I think I read somewhere that ratings were up for this show over previous years.

[Dom Heffner]

That about sums it up for me.

She is very easy on the eyes, but her songs are so depressing, somewhat juvenile (Our Song) and even for the most part sound alike.

Here are some songs to check out by her:

White Horse (depressing all the way around)
Tim McGraw (about missing a guy)
Teardrops on my Guitar (about a guy she has a crush on)
Should've Said No (about a guy who cheated on her)
Love Story (Romeo and Juliet, actually the only one I really like)
You Belong With Me (the song that Kanye dissed her on, again about another guy she has a crush on)
Our Song (See above, my girlfriend even had that as a ringtone for me, lol)


Here are some songs to check out by The Beatles:

Yesterday (depressing all the way around)
All My Loving (About missing a girl)
I Want a Hold Your Hand (about a girl they have a crush on)
Baby It's You (about a girl who cheated)
In My Life (just another song about liking a girl)

:)

[WVRed]

Here are some songs to check out by The Beatles:

Yesterday (depressing all the way around)
All My Loving (About missing a girl)
I Want a Hold Your Hand (about a girl they have a crush on)
Baby It's You (about a girl who cheated)
In My Life (just another song about liking a girl)

:)

Probably a bit of a stretch to compare Taylor Swift to the Beatles.

I should have mentioned earlier that I did see Taylor Swift in concert two years ago at Marietta College. The acoustics were absolutely horrible and with how far back we were sitting you couldn't hardly make out the words to her songs. This was when Our Song, Teardrops on my Guitar, and Tim McGraw were out. Everything else might as well have been Charlie Brown's teacher.

I do think she has a very good future in whatever music field she decides to pursue (crossover into pop or stay in country, or both). That being said, it's just not my cup of tea. :)

[traderumor]

Taylor Swift is a poor singer, esp. live. A performance on CMA in the last year or two that seems to replay in my hearing all too frequently was about as off-key as I ever heard a "professional" singer sing.

[nate]

Taylor Swift is a poor singer, esp. live. A performance on CMA in the last year or two that seems to replay in my hearing all too frequently was about as off-key as I ever heard a "professional" singer sing.

Well, "professional" is simply an economic distinction. Not indicative of skill!

:cool:

[OldRightHander]

Taylor Swift is a poor singer, esp. live. A performance on CMA in the last year or two that seems to replay in my hearing all too frequently was about as off-key as I ever heard a "professional" singer sing.

A lot of people will let that slide if you look good.

[WVRed]

I can only imagine West response to Obama :bowrofl:

I bet it involves Obama not caring about someone.

I read this on a blog and thought it summed it up nicely.

“*Peanut Gallery material*" may hate black people, but every person hates Kanye West.”

[RedsBaron]

Taylor Swift is a poor singer, esp. live. A performance on CMA in the last year or two that seems to replay in my hearing all too frequently was about as off-key as I ever heard a "professional" singer sing.

With Auto-Tune a lot of performers are made to sound as if they can sing much better than they really are. I do not know if Taylor Swift uses Auto-Tune, but I've read that many, perhaps most, singers do use it.

[nate]

With Auto-Tune a lot of performers are made to sound as if they can sing much better than they really are. I do not know if Taylor Swift uses Auto-Tune, but I've read that many, perhaps most, singers do use it.

In modern music, it's common.

I'd be more surprised to hear about an artist that didn't use it these days.

[traderumor]

Would auto-tune help Bob Dylan? Discuss amongst yourselves. :)

[RedsBaron]

In modern music, it's common.

I'd be more surprised to hear about an artist that didn't use it these days.

Martina McBride

[Dom Heffner]

Probably a bit of a stretch to compare Taylor Swift to the Beatles.


Good thing I wasn't then.

I was demonstrating how silly it is to dismiss a musical talent based on the content of the songs.

[Hoosier Red]

"Elanor Rigby"'s a real uplifting song too.
"Hello Goodbye"

[New Fever]

Who says that young black people is his target demographic? Not me.

And Dom, trust me, as marketing person the record executives are targeting whoever is buying the most records.

I want to apologize, I took your comment out of context. Also I wasn't trying to refer to you as a racist. I was trying to infer that the "hip hop culture" was not in agreement with Kanye's action and I had no idea how that was going to increase his record sales. I should have just said that in the first place, so I apologize.

[Chip R]

With Auto-Tune a lot of performers are made to sound as if they can sing much better than they really are. I do not know if Taylor Swift uses Auto-Tune, but I've read that many, perhaps most, singers do use it.


What is Auto-Tune, some kind of lip-synching deal?

[nate]

What is Auto-Tune, some kind of lip-synching deal?

Heh!

It allows audio to be automatically (and manually) tuned to a desired pitch.

It also has some interesting effects when used in an extreme manner. Many pop tunes have used this (including...oddly...Kanye West).

[camisadelgolf]

If you haven't listened to Kanye West or many of the other modern artists who currently use auto-tune in an extreme manner, Cher's "Do You Believe in Life After Love" is a classic case of auto-tune being used in full force.

[redsmetz]

I told my son today that I fully expect Taylor Swift to be doing a duet with Kanye within the coming year. Write it down. It's a solid prediction.

[nate]

Or Taylor and Beyonce.

Or all three!

[Brutus]

I think most people aren't swayed by the whole "cry and apologize" thing. He's still a jackass to about 90% of the people that know about this.

I don't think it was a setup.

I actually know a few people that have assisted in producing these big shows in the past. They have said that more often than not, these controversial "off the cuff" moments usually are set up.

Perhaps this one wasn't, but history suggests it may well be.

[Razor Shines]

I'm sure most of you follow Daniel Tosh on Twitter, and if you don't you've made some choices in your life that I just don't understand. He had a funny line about the Kanye thing:


danieltosh Im so mad at Kanya that I may never illegally download anymore of his music, collaborations dont count do they? hate to punish other artists

[RedsBaron]

Heh!

It allows audio to be automatically (and manually) tuned to a desired pitch.

It also has some interesting effects when used in an extreme manner. Many pop tunes have used this (including...oddly...Kanye West).

Yep.
I read an article about Auto-Tune last year somewhere. As I previously noted, Martina McBride doesn't use it, but a lot of country singers do, reportedly including Tim McGraw (no surprise) and Faith Hill (that did surprise me).

[nate]

Yep.
I read an article about Auto-Tune last year somewhere. As I previously noted, Martina McBride doesn't use it, but a lot of country singers do, reportedly including Tim McGraw (no surprise) and Faith Hill (that did surprise me).

I don't think there's any shame in using it here and there. Quite honestly, it's use in music is so rampant that it's often as much for it's corrective nature as it is for the effect it creates.

[TC81190]

What if he liked the Pink video as much? Would Kanye jump onstage for Pink?
In that hypothetical, I would think yes.

As I saw on The Colbert Report this morning, they so humorously pointed out that Kanye didn't take any objection to losing himself (including losing an award to Eminem, who is of course.) So no, I don't think race had anything to do with it at all whatsoever.

[marcshoe]

Agree about him being a jackass, but did Taylor Swift win for the "boys don't make passes at girls who wear glasses" video?

[MWM]

I want to apologize, I took your comment out of context. Also I wasn't trying to refer to you as a racist. I was trying to infer that the "hip hop culture" was not in agreement with Kanye's action and I had no idea how that was going to increase his record sales. I should have just said that in the first place, so I apologize.

Hey man, no need to apologize. My experience has been that the African American population is just as diverse within their own race as caucasions are, or any other race for that matter. So when I see a black person, hispanic, asian, etc... it tells me almost nothing about them other than what they look like. So when I see stuff like Kanye West's antics, I didn't for a second associate it with African Americans. It's just not the reality of the diverse world we live in. I do marketing for a living and we're in constant search of commonalities among consumer groups in order to position our brands most effectively. Looking at race is a thing of the past and is rarely even considered much anymore. If it is, it's secondary to behaviors and preferences which don't corrolate with race much any more.

[Tony Cloninger]

When is this decade officially over? So all the "set ups" and "fake reality" and over ironic stuff just stops? Is that not how it works? Decade ends.... things that were cool now get moved to the side (Like Disco was in the 80's and hair bands in the 90's) and people do not find it funny or witty or even relevant anymore. I guess this means no more shows like the Hills (can i dream?) or Judd Apatow movies (They are starting to get redundant)?

Getting back to Hip Hop demographics..... out here in Los Angeles/Orange County areas....you can count on less than 1 hand the non Hip Hop Stations that have glutted the market. If that is what the people want...then they have it here....and I have found that just about 100% of those who do listen to it and embrace that lifestyle...are just as narrow minded about that music as Metal fans were in the 80's. Nothing else is worth listening to...nothing came before it or worth acknowledging.... and as arrogant and egotistical as the singers who perform the music.

[Yachtzee]

If you haven't listened to Kanye West or many of the other modern artists who currently use auto-tune in an extreme manner, Cher's "Do You Believe in Life After Love" is a classic case of auto-tune being used in full force.

Is that what gives artists that awful robo-voice I hear so overused today, particularly in hip-hop? I found it interesting the first time I heard Cher's song, but then it (the song) became overplayed and the effect became annoying. Now that this effect is such a popular gimmick, it's been abused to an absurd degree. It's like if every 70's rock band started using the talk box on all their songs after Frampton Come's Alive!.

[mth123]

Is that what gives artists that awful robo-voice I hear so overused today, particularly in hip-hop? I found it interesting the first time I heard Cher's song, but then it (the song) became overplayed and the effect became annoying. Now that this effect is such a popular gimmick, it's been abused to an absurd degree. It's like if every 70's rock band started using the talk box on all their songs after Frampton Come's Alive!.

I think its abused because looking good is the most important thing these days. Its hard to find people who look so good that can actually sing on key, so this device gives them a little help.

As for Taylor Swift. I think she has musical talent. The fact that she has been able to write so many songs gives credence to that. But, her singing is lacking. She is frequently off key and she sounds like the child that she is when she is singing most of the time. Talented girl. Attractive but not stunning. Limited vocally. I'd say the respect that she got from Def Leppard was because the collaboration breathed some life into their long dead careers. All that said, she seems like an OK person, she is what many of the people want and deserved to have her moment.

Kanye West? Obama said it best.

[mth123]

BTW, can somebody please make Bronson Arroyo aware of this device being discussed on here?

[reds44]

Wow -- I really dislike Taylor Swift, but you have to feel terrible for her. She's up there, clearly thrilled to be winning an award, and Kayne West walks in and just craps all over her moment.

What an incredibly vain, selfish, and mean thing to do.

Having said that, I wouldn't be shocked if the whole thing was staged by MTV to generate interest in the VMAs (an amusing show for them to produce, since the network is more "spoiled rich girl reality tv" than music videos anymore).
I'm not a fan of Taylor Swift's music (I hate country music), but I'm curious as to how one grows to "really dislike" Taylor Swift. I used to like Kanye's music, then he went all autotune with his new album and has become a big bundle of crap (like most music these days).

As for Taylor Swift singing about boys not wanting her, there was a time where Taylor Swift wasn't rich. Even when she was rich, it didn't stop Joe Jonas from dumping her via a 30 second phone conversation. Her target audience is teenage girls, being rejected by boys is something all teenage girls can relate to because we (as in guys) are all a-holes. It's not very hard to understand.

For the record I only know that Joe Jonas/Taylor Swift stuff because I am, gasp, dating a teenage girl. She loves Taylor Swift, as most teenage girls do.

[GAC]

BTW, can somebody please make Bronson Arroyo aware of this device being discussed on here?

You owe me a keyboard man! :D

[nate]

Is that what gives artists that awful robo-voice I hear so overused today, particularly in hip-hop?

There are a variety of things that make robo-voices. Automatic tuning, talk boxes and vocoders all produce similar effects.

Or they hire actual robots.

[Chip R]

Or they hire actual robots.


Yeah, but then you'll need robot insurance.

http://www.hulu.com/embed/wdIwrWS8DmSXIKVxxd6nbA

[nate]

I think its abused because looking good is the most important thing these days. Its hard to find people who look so good that can actually sing on key, so this device gives them a little help.

As for Taylor Swift. I think she has musical talent. The fact that she has been able to write so many songs gives credence to that. But, her singing is lacking. She is frequently off key and she sounds like the child that she is when she is singing most of the time. Talented girl. Attractive but not stunning. Limited vocally. I'd say the respect that she got from Def Leppard was because the collaboration breathed some life into their long dead careers. All that said, she seems like an OK person, she is what many of the people want and deserved to have her moment.

Kanye West? Obama said it best.

My wife is a big Whitney Houston fan so we watched the Oprah thing yesterday (yes, I admit it) and Whitney sang a tune from the new album. All I can say is, matters of taste aside, in terms of purely being able to sing, Whitney may be amongst currently on the planet. There were perhaps some physical things that hadn't been fine tuned to where she was ten years ago but the innate sense of pitch awareness (where most singers don't sense the "middle" of the note and sing (mostly) flat), dynamics and timing where near awe inspiring.

She had long section where the band dropped out and she gave shout-outs to various people while singing. Probably over a minute long. Then she held a note and the band came back in under that note. She was perfectly in pitch.

No in-ear monitors either, just stage wedges.

Impressive!

[nate]

Yeah, but then you'll need robot insurance.

http://www.hulu.com/embed/wdIwrWS8DmSXIKVxxd6nbA

If you deny the existence of robots, you might be one yourself!

[Eric_the_Red]

I can't post videos from work, but do a search for Autotune the News. Hilarious stuff from those guys!

[macro]

Taylor Swift is a poor singer, esp. live. A performance on CMA in the last year or two that seems to replay in my hearing all too frequently was about as off-key as I ever heard a "professional" singer sing.

She can be brutal on some songs, even the recorded version. And I think I saw the CMA performance you're referring to. It was so bad that my mouth actually dropped open, and I looked over and my wife had the same expression I did.

Also, I don't consider Swift to be a "country" singer, but then again, neither are 75% of the other artists that Nashville and CMT have embraced this decade. When the VH1-MTV crowd moves on past the artists that Nashville is currently pushing, they'll come crawling back to the folks with the steel guitars, fiddles, and Resistol hats. We saw this happen in the 1980s.

[WVRed]

For the record I only know that Joe Jonas/Taylor Swift stuff because I am, gasp, dating a teenage girl. She loves Taylor Swift, as most teenage girls do.

Truth be told, Taylor probably tried to kiss Joe Jonas on a date and he freaked out because his mother told him that if he kissed a girl he would die that very minute. :)

[camisadelgolf]

BTW, can somebody please make Bronson Arroyo aware of this device being discussed on here?
:clap:

[Larry Schuler]

Guys! Redszone.com just won the award for best website! Check it out.

RedsZone 2009 Best Website Award (http://kanyelicio.us/http://www.redszone.com)

[Chip R]

Guys! Redszone.com just won the award for best website! Check it out.

RedsZone 2009 Best Website Award (http://kanyelicio.us/http://www.redszone.com)

:roll:

[cinredsfan2000]

who knew Kanye was a fan and Reads Redszone:eek::D

[Larry Schuler]

http://imgur.com/zm2DD.jpg

[vaticanplum]

I think Kanye's ridiculously talented. I only have a marginal idea of what this awards show is...and maybe he was a jerk. Who cares? This can be debated forever but he's a musician and a good one and his music makes me dance around my house constantly. There's got to be more going on in the world than his actions on some made-up cable awards show.

My point is there are an awful lot of people here who seem to have strong opinions about his merits as a human being, his place in "hip hop culture", while fully admitting they aren't at all familiar with his music. Which is ironic, since he's...a musician.

I also admittedly have no idea who Taylor Swift is. I think she's blond; that's about all I know.

But seriously. Kanye is really really good.

[Dom Heffner]

And being really really good is no excuse to be a jerk, which is kind of the gist of what at least some are saying.

Can you imagine earning an award at work or school, and having some person jump up while you were accepting it and start screaming about how someone else should have won?

It's about time and place.

I do agree with you- I don't think anybody should stop buying his music, but at the same time, he deserves the flack he is getting.

[vaticanplum]

And being really really good is no excuse to be a jerk, which is kind of the gist of what at least some are saying.

Can you imagine earning an award at work or school, and having some person jump up while you were accepting it and start screaming about how someone else should have won?

It's about time and place.

I do agree with you- I don't think anybody should stop buying his music, but at the same time, he deserves the flack he is getting.

Oh, I'm not justifying what he apparently did, or saying that he doesn't deserve flack for it. I'm just surprised at the amount of attention it's getting, particularly from people who admittedly have no idea who he is outside of this incident.

[RichRed]

Oh, I'm not justifying what he apparently did, or saying that he doesn't deserve flack for it. I'm just surprised at the amount of attention it's getting, particularly from people who admittedly have no idea who he is outside of this incident.

Outrage seems to be the new national pastime.

[Caveat Emperor]

But seriously. Kanye is really really good.

808s & Heartbreaks was an unbelievably disappointing outnig for him, though. As a fan of his work, I really hope he bounces back.

[MWM]

I guess I don't see how familiarity with his work has anything at all to do with evaluating his actions at the awards. I don't think it was necessary to have ever even heard of him to be able to say what he did there was pretty disgraceful.

[mth123]

I guess I don't see how familiarity with his work has anything at all to do with evaluating his actions at the awards. I don't think it was necessary to have ever even heard of him to be able to say what he did there was pretty disgraceful.

yup

[Falls City Beer]

Kanye West is no match for Dean Swift.

[TC81190]

808s & Heartbreaks was an unbelievably disappointing outnig for him, though. As a fan of his work, I really hope he bounces back.
Was it? it was different for Kanye West, but I think it was a good album.

[camisadelgolf]

Was it? it was different for Kanye West, but I think it was a good album.
It was a very good album, but it pales in comparison to the previous two.

[vaticanplum]

I guess I don't see how familiarity with his work has anything at all to do with evaluating his actions at the awards. I don't think it was necessary to have ever even heard of him to be able to say what he did there was pretty disgraceful.

Again, not arguing anyone calling it disgraceful. Just unclear on why everyone seems to care so much.

I'm not limiting it to this thread. This is EVERYWHERE right now and I have a hard time getting a grasp on why this, of all things on earth, is so important to people. My original point in bringing up his music is to say that hey, I like this guy and I think he's talented, I have some grasp of his career, and *I* would never have even known this happened if everybody else wasn't so outraged about it. And yet there are people full-blown outraged by this who had never heard of the guy before.

[Tony Cloninger]

Maybe the fact that what he did does not really bother you....the fact that someone can be that arrogant and rude to someone else...without just cause...says how much people do not think that is really a big deal and actually begin to think it is acceptable. So pretty soon you start getting more and more people acting like rude d-bags...and hey it's okay now...what's the big deal?

The lack of decorum should be the thing that has popped it's head up these last few months.....from town hall meetings...president's speeches...and now this.

But if it does not bother you....that is fine. You should just ask yourself why?

Maybe I am too uptight about things myself and I am wrong.

[Larry Schuler]

Have you heard anyone in the world who thinks what kanye did wasn't idiotic? Even the theoretical dbags you're lamenting would look at what kanye did and know it was rude. There is no sect out there changing our old fashioned concept of manners.

[Tony Cloninger]

I spoke to 7 people at work and 5 of them were under 30....all but 1 thought it was funny and not a big thing. "Yeah he's stupid but who cares." "What is the big deal." "just Kanye being Kanye." That is basically some of the comments i got.

Maybe i picked out 4 uncaring rude people out of pure luck....and since I will not be going to a mall near me to take a survey.. I do not really know what everyone thinks. Just know that these were not people who are rude in general.

Maybe the concept of manners is not changing.....but it seems like an awful lot of people have lost them recently.

[GIDP]

Taylor Swift is a big yes.

[Falls City Beer]

Again, not arguing anyone calling it disgraceful. Just unclear on why everyone seems to care so much.

I'm not limiting it to this thread. This is EVERYWHERE right now and I have a hard time getting a grasp on why this, of all things on earth, is so important to people. My original point in bringing up his music is to say that hey, I like this guy and I think he's talented, I have some grasp of his career, and *I* would never have even known this happened if everybody else wasn't so outraged about it. And yet there are people full-blown outraged by this who had never heard of the guy before.

I agree. It's a bloody MTV show geared toward teens. It's like You Can't Do That on Television. Slimed!

[Tony Cloninger]

Then MTV should just have a reality show called..."Who's the biggest D-Bag.?"
Well i guess they already do with The Hills and the last 15 or so Real World shows.

[Falls City Beer]

Didn't Dirt McGirt do something like this on the VMA's years ago?

[Falls City Beer]

Outrage seems to be the new national pastime.

I agree. Sadly, it's never aimed at the proper targets.

[westofyou]

I agree. Sadly, it's never aimed at the proper targets.

Yep, so true. Rappers, ex basketball stars, tennis players, who gives a crap?

So many other real targets.

[Chip R]

Yep, so true. Rappers, ex basketball stars, tennis players, who gives a crap?

So many other real targets.


Right. But people obviously care more about them than they do the other targets of outrage. Whether they should is clearly up for debate but they do.

[westofyou]

Right. But people obviously care more about them than they do the other targets of outrage. Whether they should is clearly up for debate but they do.

People are sheep, broadcast and print enough about something and watch the outrage bloom.

Problem is most the items are pop culture specific and affect the outraged masses personal lives in a minuscule way.

[Matt700wlw]

It is my understanding that she was not very attractive in high school- not popular, nobody talked to her, apparently.



Them people look pretty stupid now :)

[Tony Cloninger]

I agree there are better targets.....but since this thread was about Kanye....that is what i chose to write about. Tell me who you are outraged at and start another thread and I will gladly join you with my opinion.

[Larry Schuler]

I think the reason people like being outraged by pop culture stars is because it's a low investment outrage. You can get on your high horse then a second later forget about it and go see what's in the fridge.

Now if we were to get outraged by something worthy of outrage (I would post an example but a moderator might close this thread out of fear/boredom) then you'd have to keep being outraged even after it stops being a fun/satisfying outrage. You might even feel obligated to DO something about it. And that's too much work.

[Falls City Beer]

I agree there are better targets.....but since this thread was about Kanye....that is what i chose to write about. Tell me who you are outraged at and start another thread and I will gladly join you with my opinion.

As The Baumer points out, it'd be closed faster than you can say "K Street."

[marcshoe]

Didn't Dirt McGirt do something like this on the VMA's years ago?

I didn't even know they still made westerns. :confused:

[mth123]

I think the reason people like being outraged by pop culture stars is because it's a low investment outrage. You can get on your high horse then a second later forget about it and go see what's in the fridge.

Now if we were to get outraged by something worthy of outrage (I would post an example but a moderator might close this thread out of fear/boredom) then you'd have to keep being outraged even after it stops being a fun/satisfying outrage. You might even feel obligated to DO something about it. And that's too much work.

This is so true.

[Dom Heffner]

Them people look pretty stupid now :)

Apparently Drew (the inspiration behind Teardrops on My Guitar) showed up at her front door in one of those "I know the song is about me still want to go out?" moments.

Yeah, he was too late.