PDA

View Full Version : USC at Washington



Brutus
09-19-2009, 07:45 PM
Teacher (Pete Carroll) is getting a lesson from pupil (Steve Sarkisian) today in the Washington PAC-10 debute for Sarkisian.

13-13 with a minute left. Washington ball in USC territory. Washington has it 2nd and 6 at the SC 35-yard line.

Brutus
09-19-2009, 07:46 PM
20-yard pass play. Down to the 15 with 33 seconds left.

Brutus
09-19-2009, 07:49 PM
Washington kicks a field goal with 3 seconds left. 16-13 Huskies.

USC 'bout to go down.

dabvu2498
09-19-2009, 07:51 PM
USC may have been overrated.

HeatherC1212
09-19-2009, 07:53 PM
This game had upset all over it and I'm honestly not that surprised about it. Doesn't USC lose on the road to some random lower ranked team every single season!? LOL :laugh:

Brutus
09-19-2009, 07:56 PM
USC may have been overrated.

Yea I kind of got the feeling last week that, while Ohio State's defense played real well, they just don't have the play-makers this year that they've had in the past. Throw in inexperienced quarterbacks, and they're good, but not great.

cincrazy
09-19-2009, 07:59 PM
I fail to see any difference between Pete Carroll and Jim Tressel. Other than Carroll is flashy and Tressel wears a sweater vest.

Brutus
09-19-2009, 08:11 PM
I fail to see any difference between Pete Carroll and Jim Tressel. Other than Carroll is flashy and Tressel wears a sweater vest.

Carroll 33-5 vs. top 25
Tressel 19-16 vs. top 25

Yes, Carroll loses some games he shouldn't. But still, you don't see a difference in that?

One is 14-2 vs. top 10. The other is 4-10.

I see quite a bit of difference.

Spring~Fields
09-19-2009, 08:17 PM
I didn't think that USC and Ohio State looked like top ten teams this early in the season last week. They both have some work to do with young quarterbacks.

Spring~Fields
09-19-2009, 08:18 PM
I fail to see any difference between Pete Carroll and Jim Tressel. Other than Carroll is flashy and Tressel wears a sweater vest.

Didn't Carroll spend some time at Ohio State years ago, or am I mistaken.

cincrazy
09-19-2009, 08:27 PM
Didn't Carroll spend some time at Ohio State years ago, or am I mistaken.

You are correct. Served on Earle Bruce's staff, can't recall the year though. Either 1979 or the very early 80's.

cincrazy
09-19-2009, 08:29 PM
Carroll 33-5 vs. top 25
Tressel 19-16 vs. top 25

Yes, Carroll loses some games he shouldn't. But still, you don't see a difference in that?

One is 14-2 vs. top 10. The other is 4-10.

I see quite a bit of difference.

I'm not arguing against Carroll's success. What I am arguing is OSU is just as good a program, and Tressel just as good a coach.

They both have one outright title, and how many games has Tressel lost in embarrassing fashion that he was supposed to win? Because I can't think of many. USC has one every year.

Brutus
09-19-2009, 09:12 PM
I'm not arguing against Carroll's success. What I am arguing is OSU is just as good a program, and Tressel just as good a coach.

They both have one outright title, and how many games has Tressel lost in embarrassing fashion that he was supposed to win? Because I can't think of many. USC has one every year.

USC has two titles. It may not be outright, but it's still a title.

I'm looking at the big picture. Overall, Carroll has a better record than Tressel, one more national title in the same amount of time and a much, much, much better performance in coaching big games. To me, if we're looking at overall performance, Tressel is not the coach Carroll is (not that many are).

Of course, I think Tressel's offense has much to do with that. Let a real offensive coordinator handle the schemes and play-calling for the Ohio State offense, and I would say Tressel would in fact be on par with anyone in America. But until/unless that happens, it's a part of coaching. And Tressel leaves his teams woefully handicapped in big games until he's willing to change his philosophy.

It's not about capability for Tressel. But nonetheless, it matters.

OUReds
09-19-2009, 11:47 PM
USC has two titles. It may not be outright, but it's still a title.

The AP "title" became irrelevant when the AP decided to make its poll irrelevant.

improbus
09-20-2009, 10:17 AM
USC has two titles. It may not be outright, but it's still a title.

The split title thing is a joke. So, Texas should have gotten it last year but they didn't because the AP didn't exist. Also, it penalizes the team that actually makes the National Championship game and loses. They didn't get a chance at that "AP" National Title.

GAC
09-20-2009, 10:38 AM
You are correct. Served on Earle Bruce's staff, can't recall the year though. Either 1979 or the very early 80's.

Carroll has been around, and has far, far more coaching experience, IMO, then Tressell.

After graduating from the University of Pacific, Carroll spent the 1977 season as a graduate assistant working with the secondary with the Arkansas Razorbacks.

In 1979, Carroll moved to Iowa State University, where he was again an assistant working on the secondary under Earle Bruce. When Bruce moved onto Ohio State University, he brought Carroll, who acted as an assistant coach in charge of the secondary. The Ohio State squad made it to the 1980 Rose Bowl where they lost to USC.

Carroll next spent three seasons as the defensive coordinator and secondary coach at North Carolina State University. In 1983, Cope became head coach of Pacific and brought Carroll on as assistant head coach and offensive coordinator.

From 1984-99 he was employed in the NFL... Bills, Vikings, Jets, 49ers, head coach of the Patriots, and then Seahawks before leaving for the collegiate level in 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Carroll

GAC
09-20-2009, 11:32 AM
I was listening to 1460 AM out of Columbus Saturday, prior to the game, and as I was on my way to taking my daughter down to Hocking College. A great discussion (and argument) on Jim Tressel.

Now the guy arguing for and vehemently defending Tressell even asked the question... "Has Jim Tressel taken the OSU program as far as he can take it?"

Not meaning that Tressel should be fired; but that it's time for Jim Tressel to do some evaluation and reassessment of his approach. Yes, it brought him great success at Youngstown State, and provided him with that opportunity to coach at the upper level with the caliber of a program like OSU.

But it's not enough.

What may have proven successful at YS - his conservative approach - is not always going to prove successful when you reach that "elevated" level. Successful yes, when it comes to consistently beating the Northwesterns, Iowas, Illinois, etc; but not when you play in those "marquee" games on the national stage.

It's not that Tressel needs to throw out that formula that brought him success, but that he needs to build on it and adapt; take it to the next level. And it's something he STUBBORNLY refuses to do because he has this mindset of "It has brought me success at this level, and I'm going to make it work at this level."

And it's not that he hasn't had the talent. It's that he doesn't allow that talent to really fully express itself because of that implemented, rigid, scheme. In a lot of ways he holds it back by trying to mold the players to HIS scheme, instead of utilizing a scheme that brings out the best in that talent.

Tressel is too nice of a guy. How many times have we Buckeye fans seen him pull back and refuse to really blow a team out for the most part? That again may be OK if you're playing a Youngstown State or some lesser level team.... or even a Big 10 rival (not wanting to embarrass a fellow divisional head coach).

But he plays too much NOT TO LOSE. He gets a 13-10 lead and then plays not to lose that lead, instead of ADDING to it. Just HOLD ON. Well that is not going to work against those "marquee" teams.

MWM will remember this because we went to the game. Back in 2003 N. Carolina State, and a QB named Philip Rivers, visited OSU. OSU kicked the crap out of Rivers, and OSU's defense never allowed the guy to find his rhythm for a majority of the game. Early in the 4th quarter we had a 24-7 lead. And that was without Clarett (suspended). Tressel started pulling guys, backed off, and NC State (Rivers) scored 17 unanswered points, and the game went into dbl OT before the Buckeyes pulled it out. And they could have very easily lost that game. And some contend they should have.

But this is Jim Tressell.

I'll be honest.... If I was a highly regarded high school QB I'd almost think twice about coming to OSU simply because of Jim Tressel.

westofyou
09-20-2009, 12:01 PM
My neighbor has his giant purple flag with a W waving on his porch this weekend, he probably feels a bit better about it today than he did Friday when he put it up.

Chip R
09-20-2009, 12:06 PM
I was listening to 1460 AM out of Columbus Saturday, prior to the game, and as I was on my way to taking my daughter down to Hocking College.


I'm sure she enjoyed that. :p:

cincrazy
09-20-2009, 06:35 PM
I was listening to 1460 AM out of Columbus Saturday, prior to the game, and as I was on my way to taking my daughter down to Hocking College. A great discussion (and argument) on Jim Tressel.

Now the guy arguing for and vehemently defending Tressell even asked the question... "Has Jim Tressel taken the OSU program as far as he can take it?"

Not meaning that Tressel should be fired; but that it's time for Jim Tressel to do some evaluation and reassessment of his approach. Yes, it brought him great success at Youngstown State, and provided him with that opportunity to coach at the upper level with the caliber of a program like OSU.

But it's not enough.

What may have proven successful at YS - his conservative approach - is not always going to prove successful when you reach that "elevated" level. Successful yes, when it comes to consistently beating the Northwesterns, Iowas, Illinois, etc; but not when you play in those "marquee" games on the national stage.

It's not that Tressel needs to throw out that formula that brought him success, but that he needs to build on it and adapt; take it to the next level. And it's something he STUBBORNLY refuses to do because he has this mindset of "It has brought me success at this level, and I'm going to make it work at this level."

And it's not that he hasn't had the talent. It's that he doesn't allow that talent to really fully express itself because of that implemented, rigid, scheme. In a lot of ways he holds it back by trying to mold the players to HIS scheme, instead of utilizing a scheme that brings out the best in that talent.

Tressel is too nice of a guy. How many times have we Buckeye fans seen him pull back and refuse to really blow a team out for the most part? That again may be OK if you're playing a Youngstown State or some lesser level team.... or even a Big 10 rival (not wanting to embarrass a fellow divisional head coach).

But he plays too much NOT TO LOSE. He gets a 13-10 lead and then plays not to lose that lead, instead of ADDING to it. Just HOLD ON. Well that is not going to work against those "marquee" teams.

MWM will remember this because we went to the game. Back in 2003 N. Carolina State, and a QB named Philip Rivers, visited OSU. OSU kicked the crap out of Rivers, and OSU's defense never allowed the guy to find his rhythm for a majority of the game. Early in the 4th quarter we had a 24-7 lead. And that was without Clarett (suspended). Tressel started pulling guys, backed off, and NC State (Rivers) scored 17 unanswered points, and the game went into dbl OT before the Buckeyes pulled it out. And they could have very easily lost that game. And some contend they should have.

But this is Jim Tressell.

I'll be honest.... If I was a highly regarded high school QB I'd almost think twice about coming to OSU simply because of Jim Tressel.

In regards to your last sentence, Troy Smith won a Heisman Trophy under Tressel.... I understand the points that you make, and I agree with some of them.

But the guy can call an offense, as he showed in 2005 and 2006. I'm not worried about this offense, or his play calling. By the end of the year they'll be a machine.

bucksfan2
09-20-2009, 06:40 PM
In regards to your last sentence, Troy Smith won a Heisman Trophy under Tressel.... I understand the points that you make, and I agree with some of them.

But the guy can call an offense, as he showed in 2005 and 2006. I'm not worried about this offense, or his play calling. By the end of the year they'll be a machine.

I think Pryor showed you why he wasn't ready yet against Toledo. He played a good game, but made some mistakes that Toledo couldn't capitalize on. He threw 2 INT's but if that was against a better team, it may have been 3-4. So yea Tressel may be conservative, but there is a reason for that.

As Pryor continues to develop, and stops making "stupid" plays, Tressel will open up the offense

cincrazy
09-20-2009, 10:24 PM
I think Pryor showed you why he wasn't ready yet against Toledo. He played a good game, but made some mistakes that Toledo couldn't capitalize on. He threw 2 INT's but if that was against a better team, it may have been 3-4. So yea Tressel may be conservative, but there is a reason for that.

As Pryor continues to develop, and stops making "stupid" plays, Tressel will open up the offense

Agree completely with that.

He's still clearly developing. But I think he'll be fine in time, even by the end of the season.

But when it comes to my Bucks, I'm always optimistic :thumbup:.

Highlifeman21
09-20-2009, 10:41 PM
It'd be interesting to see what tOSU could do if they didn't take their foot off the gas in ballgames. Why take your own team out of offensive rhythm? If the other team can't stop you, why stop yourself?

Unassisted
09-20-2009, 11:06 PM
IMO, the real cautionary lesson that Ohio State (and other programs) should take away from this game is to make sure that your backup QB is ready to run the offense if QB #1 goes down. USC's wasn't and it cost them this game.

Highlifeman21
09-20-2009, 11:18 PM
IMO, the real cautionary lesson that Ohio State (and other programs) should take away from this game is to make sure that your backup QB is ready to run the offense if QB #1 goes down. USC's wasn't and it cost them this game.

And the funny part is that injury cost Corp the starting gig to Barkley.

On one hand, I wanna give Carroll credit for sticking with Corp the entire game.

On the other hand, when you've got Mitch Mustaine on the bench, why not give him a shot?

BuckeyeRed27
09-21-2009, 02:13 PM
And the funny part is that injury cost Corp the starting gig to Barkley.

On one hand, I wanna give Carroll credit for sticking with Corp the entire game.

On the other hand, when you've got Mitch Mustaine on the bench, why not give him a shot?

Probably because he didn't have Darren McFadden and Felix Jones to hand off to :D

traderumor
09-21-2009, 03:39 PM
IMO, the real cautionary lesson that Ohio State (and other programs) should take away from this game is to make sure that your backup QB is ready to run the offense if QB #1 goes down. USC's wasn't and it cost them this game.At this level, unless you have your starter in training as the backup at the time of the call, you are going to have a significant drop off from your #2 QB. If there is any position that is near impossible to stockpile in the ESPN CFB era, its QB. The QB who is good enough to be the #1 but isn't for reasons will have already transferred.

Sea Ray
09-21-2009, 06:10 PM
Tressel's problem with his offense is his O-line. If he's going to call a conservative game then he needs big, powerful guys who can blow opponents off the ball. He has really let the O-line go down in recent years. OSU tradition has been to produce NFL caliber O-linemen but I haven't seen many recent OSU linemen in the NFL. If he's going to have a sieve of an O-line then he might as well let Pryor improvise

Sea Ray
09-21-2009, 06:13 PM
Anyone else disagree with AP deciding that UW is now worthy of being ranked? I think it's nuts. They are now one game over .500, coming off a winless 2008 and they beat a USC team who was down to their backup QB. It was a nice win but it doesn't elevate them to national status IMO

OnBaseMachine
09-21-2009, 06:27 PM
Anyone else disagree with AP deciding that UW is now worthy of being ranked? I think it's nuts. They are now one game over .500, coming off a winless 2008 and they beat a USC team who was down to their backup QB. It was a nice win but it doesn't elevate them to national status IMO

I think they deserve it. Not only did they beat USC, but they also played very tough against LSU. They outgained LSU by 150 yards but they shot themselves in the foot by committing a ton of penalties and two turnovers. They have a lot of talent on that roster and now it looks like they have a good coach to compliment that talent.

BuckeyeRed27
09-21-2009, 06:46 PM
Anyone else disagree with AP deciding that UW is now worthy of being ranked? I think it's nuts. They are now one game over .500, coming off a winless 2008 and they beat a USC team who was down to their backup QB. It was a nice win but it doesn't elevate them to national status IMO

I was a little surprised too. It is really hard to tell anything this early in the season, but if there are only 24 teams better then UW this is going to be a brutal season of college football.

Nice win though.

Revering4Blue
09-21-2009, 07:20 PM
The other takeaway from this game (pun intended, given the turnover bug afflicting USC) is that on a day when Pete Carrollís former offensive coordinator, Steve Sarkisian, scored a gigantic triumph that could revitalize the slumbering Husky giant in the Pacific Northwest, it was USCís current offensive coordinator, Jeremy Bates, who made two major missteps. In the third quarter, with SCís ground game rolling, Bates dialed up a pass on 2nd and 2. Corp threw an interception on a telegraphed three-yard route (what a waste!). That play came in a tied game. Then, with the Trojans down by three with just over six minutes left, Bates called a timid vanilla run on 3rd and 6 from the Washington 7. By taking an unnecessary chance when tied, and then being appallingly tentative when trailing, Bates mismanaged Aaron Corpís first-ever start. For all the impotence Corp displayed in this contest, itís true that his fumble-prone teammates failed to pick him up. His offensive coordinator let him down just as much.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/900765.html

This is so true.

Whether you run a Pro-style offense or not, if you have an athletic QB such as Corp, you need to design and run some plays to take advantage of his athleticism.

That is what creative coordinators do.

I believe that MWM nailed it in another thread.

Norm Chow was much more instrumental to the success of the Trojans than he was ever given credit for.

GAC
09-21-2009, 09:12 PM
Tressel's problem with his offense is his O-line. If he's going to call a conservative game then he needs big, powerful guys who can blow opponents off the ball. He has really let the O-line go down in recent years. OSU tradition has been to produce NFL caliber O-linemen but I haven't seen many recent OSU linemen in the NFL. If he's going to have a sieve of an O-line then he might as well let Pryor improvise

Yep. Their running game right now is one huge question mark. Don't know, as of right now, if that is due to O-line weakness, or simply lack of talent at the RB position. Not that sold on Herron as of yet. I like this kid Saine; but I'm prejudiced since he from this area (Piqua). :D

Highlifeman21
09-21-2009, 09:12 PM
Probably because he didn't have Darren McFadden and Felix Jones to hand off to :D

Was Jones there when Mustaine was a Razorback?

I know McFadden was there.

*BaseClogger*
09-21-2009, 09:37 PM
Was Jones there when Mustaine was a Razorback?

I know McFadden was there.

Those two were there at the same time...

Sea Ray
09-21-2009, 10:15 PM
I think they deserve it. Not only did they beat USC, but they also played very tough against LSU. They outgained LSU by 150 yards but they shot themselves in the foot by committing a ton of penalties and two turnovers. They have a lot of talent on that roster and now it looks like they have a good coach to compliment that talent.

I don't think you should get "rankings points" in games you lose, especially at home by more than a TD. Therefore their national ranking is due solely to their win over USC. I think time will show that they are not worthy of a national ranking, perhaps we'll see it as soon as this week when they play their first road game of the year

Revering4Blue
09-22-2009, 09:07 PM
At this point, it can no longer be denied: USC hasn't been the same team since offensive coordinator Norm Chow left following the 2004 season.

Look at USC in the Chow years, and see a team that—once Carroll and his staff completely turned over the roster with their own recruits by 2003—was nearly unbeatable. Even by the end of 2002, USC had become the game's best program.

USC then won the AP national title in 2003 and won the BCS title in 2004 before Chow left for the NFL. A year later, the virus—losing to teams they shouldn't—took hold. It hit a new low last week when Washington, which ended a 15-game losing streak a week earlier, gave the Trojans their fifth loss to an unranked Pac-10 team since Chow's departure.

It was Carroll who wanted more input in the offense after the 2004 season, looking to give more control to young, talented assistants Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkisian. When Chow left for the NFL's Titans, we were spoon-fed the excuse of Chow's future as a head coach in the NFL. If that was the case, then why did he move back to the college game at rival UCLA three years later?

Chow's offenses at USC were not only successful, but they also had a smooth flow and a killer instinct and could score from anywhere on the field. USC's offenses since have been inconsistent, maddening servings of potential, playing their best in nonconference and bowl games. Here's why: None of those opponents know USC like the rest of the Pac-10, which sees the Trojans year after year and knows the team's personnel and tendencies.

At least by recruiting standards, the teams the Trojans have fielded since Chow left are just as talented—and maybe more talented—than previous teams. So if those players aren't reaching their ability (see: Joe McKnight, David Ausberry, Mitch Mustain, Aaron Corp), it has to be coaching.

Carroll has made just about every right move since arriving at USC in 2001, and it's ridiculous to criticize what he has accomplished. But had he found a way to coexist with Chow, USC would have at least two more national titles this decade.

Now he's simply trying to keep up in the Pac-10 with his third offensive coordinator/play-caller in the last five seasons.


http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2009-09-22/hayes-hot-seat-usc-hasnt-been-same-without-chow

Sea Ray
09-28-2009, 10:13 AM
I think they deserve it. Not only did they beat USC, but they also played very tough against LSU. They outgained LSU by 150 yards but they shot themselves in the foot by committing a ton of penalties and two turnovers. They have a lot of talent on that roster and now it looks like they have a good coach to compliment that talent.

It didn't take long for UW to show that they're not worthy of a national ranking. Losing by 3 TDs to a middling PAC 10 team will do that. The loss didn't surprise me at all. My thought hasn't changed. The Huskies are not a top 25 team

OnBaseMachine
09-28-2009, 01:43 PM
Washington clearly isn't the same team away from home.

*BaseClogger*
09-29-2009, 02:39 AM
Washington clearly isn't the same team away from home.

Or playing teams who weren't physically man-handled by The Ohio State University... ;)

OnBaseMachine
09-29-2009, 02:57 AM
Or playing teams who weren't physically man-handled by The Ohio State University... ;)

USC won with a freshman QB making his first road start in front of 100,000+ fans.

*BaseClogger*
09-29-2009, 03:03 AM
USC won with a freshman QB making his first road start in front of 100,000+ fans.

And then they lost to Washington, the team who went 0-12 the year before... ;)

OnBaseMachine
09-29-2009, 03:06 AM
And then they lost to Washington, the team who went 0-12 the year before... ;)

Oh well. Washington is under a different coaching staff this season and have improved. They played tough against LSU too. Anyway, I expected USC to lose three or four games this year considering all the talent they lost on offense and defense.

RBA
09-29-2009, 09:25 AM
It seems bashing and putting smileys next to USC is tolerated here. On the other hand if someone did the same type of posting for Ohio State, that person would be reported for 'taunting' and being a 'troll'.

*BaseClogger*
09-29-2009, 05:31 PM
It seems bashing and putting smileys next to USC is tolerated here. On the other hand if someone did the same type of posting for Ohio State, that person would be reported for 'taunting' and being a 'troll'.

Who's bashing USC? :) :D :cool: ;)

cincrazy
09-30-2009, 12:37 PM
It seems bashing and putting smileys next to USC is tolerated here. On the other hand if someone did the same type of posting for Ohio State, that person would be reported for 'taunting' and being a 'troll'.

Because most of us are based in Ohio ;).

Sea Ray
09-30-2009, 02:57 PM
Because most of us are based in Ohio ;).

So we're a bunch of Homers? Sad but you are probably right. It's the unusual fan that can root for a hometown team but not be a homer.