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View Full Version : How to get rid of Willy



Griffey012
09-24-2009, 02:50 PM
The point of this thread is to throw out some ideas of how we can rid ourselves of Willy so Dusty cannot play him next season. And also to maybe get something serviceable out of a deal. But let's be realistic, nobody is going to take his 4 million for next season off of our hands for nothing. So either we are going to have to sweeten the pot with prospects, or take on other bad contracts, similar to the Freel for Ramon Hernandez swap last year.

Arizona trades Eric Byrnes and 3.5-4 million to the Reds for Willy Taveras and Mike Lincoln.

Why Arizona does this trade: There are talks they may just release Byrnes in the off-season and eat his 11 million. This way they save 1 million and Taveras can be a 5th outfielder/ late sub or whatever they please to do with him. Lincoln is just a garbage contract handed over to them.

Why the Reds do this. Basically would have Byrnes on a 1 year .5-1 million dollar contract. Provides a decent bench bat and 4th/5th outfield with the possibility of putting up numbers closer to 06-07 being in a contract year. He HUSTLES plays great D, has pop, and has some bench speed. He could be a strong veteran presence with the way he plays the game for some of our young guys to see.

Bruce, Stubbs, Dickerson, Gomes, Byrnes in the OF

This all depends on what the reds decide to do with Gomes, Nix, Balentien and whether Stubbs starts in the MLB also.

What kind of ideas do you have out there?

Captain Hook
09-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Why take on more garbage and possibly loose someone valuable just to get rid of Willy.Lets just release him and be done with it.

Griffey012
09-24-2009, 04:49 PM
Why take on more garbage and possibly loose someone valuable just to get rid of Willy.Lets just release him and be done with it.

Who are we losing of value? Lincoln?

Captain Hook
09-24-2009, 05:48 PM
Who are we losing of value? Lincoln?

I'd be willing to bet just about anything that there isn't a single team in baseball that would take Willy and Lincoln along with their contracts for nothing.Like I said I don't want another teams junk just so we can move either of those guys.IMO it's very simple.Both where mistakes that have become completely undesired and the only thing left to do at least in Willy's case is to cut them loose.I know that 4 mil is a lot of money to eat for a team like the Reds but imo the best thing Taveras can do for the team next season is to disappear.FWIW while I maintain that Lincoln has no value in a trade it would still be worth while to hang on to him at least through spring training just to see if he can get back what he had in 08.

Javy Pornstache
09-24-2009, 05:58 PM
The old carpet rollup and toss into the Ohio is still probably the best way to get rid of him.

Griffey012
09-24-2009, 05:59 PM
I'd be willing to bet just about anything that there isn't a single team in baseball that would take Willy and Lincoln along with their contracts for nothing.Like I said I don't want another teams junk just so we can move either of those guys.IMO it's very simple.Both where mistakes that have become completely undesired and the only thing left to do at least in Willy's case is to cut them loose.I know that 4 mil is a lot of money to eat for a team like the Reds but imo the best thing Taveras can do for the team next season is to disappear.FWIW while I maintain that Lincoln has no value in a trade it would still be worth while to hang on to him at least through spring training just to see if he can get back what he had in 08.

I never said another team would just take those contracts, I am not living in Reds fantasy land.

Another team's junk may be able to help us out. Ala last year nobody wanted Freel's contract but we were able to turn it into getting Hernandez who helped us out this year. The O's did the deal because they were able to save some cash. We are going to be stuck paying the combined salaries of the both of them, but we may be able to acquire someone who another team has given up on or just wants to be done with with a similar bad contract ending after next season.

Eric Byrnes may be able to give us some benefit as a 5th outfielder. Or he may not. It was an example and I was looking for similar scenarios. If we release the 2 we still have to eat to millions, so why not look to trade it first and find a similar bad contract who may bring use to us.

Slyder
09-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Willy T is this years Ryan Freel. If we move him it will be for a larger contract.

Captain Hook
09-24-2009, 06:42 PM
I never said another team would just take those contracts, I am not living in Reds fantasy land.

Another team's junk may be able to help us out. Ala last year nobody wanted Freel's contract but we were able to turn it into getting Hernandez who helped us out this year. The O's did the deal because they were able to save some cash. We are going to be stuck paying the combined salaries of the both of them, but we may be able to acquire someone who another team has given up on or just wants to be done with with a similar bad contract ending after next season.

Eric Byrnes may be able to give us some benefit as a 5th outfielder. Or he may not. It was an example and I was looking for similar scenarios. If we release the 2 we still have to eat to millions, so why not look to trade it first and find a similar bad contract who may bring use to us.

I understand what your saying.I'm just saying I wouldn't do it..Byrnes being owed 11 mil next year means that even if they take on the 6 mil owed to Willy and Lincoln and then send us an extra 4 mil. then we are still adding 1 mil. of payroll.All of that just to have a terrible Eric Byrnes instead of a terrible Willy Taveras.I'd rather use that extra mil. to help sign Gomes.

malcontent
09-24-2009, 07:04 PM
The old carpet rollup and toss into the Ohio is still probably the best way to get rid of him.
Occam's Razor would agree with this approach.

Just be sure to include Toothpick.

ILoveWilly
09-24-2009, 07:25 PM
Why trade him? He's fast dude, big time.

Griffey012
09-24-2009, 07:41 PM
I understand what your saying.I'm just saying I wouldn't do it..Byrnes being owed 11 mil next year means that even if they take on the 6 mil owed to Willy and Lincoln and then send us an extra 4 mil. then we are still adding 1 mil. of payroll.All of that just to have a terrible Eric Byrnes instead of a terrible Willy Taveras.I'd rather use that extra mil. to help sign Gomes.

I would hope we didn't do it either, because that means we probably don't keep Gomes and Stubbs starts in the minors or something like that.

I aimed to use that as an example because I was reading about Byrnes impending release. I just want to generate so potential ideas for this scenario.

vottofan4life
09-24-2009, 08:51 PM
Willy Taveras for Scott Linebrink?
Willy Taveras for Johnny Peralta?
Willy Taveras for David Dejesus?
Willy Taveras and Bronson Arroyo for Milton Bradley?
Willy Taveras and Aaron Harang for J.D. Drew?
Willy Taveras for Pedro Feliciano?
Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln, and Juan Francisco for Juan Pierre?

Kingspoint
09-24-2009, 09:46 PM
Willy Taveras for Pedro Feliciano?


Willy Taveras for Jose Feliciano.

DannyB
09-25-2009, 04:58 PM
I never said another team would just take those contracts, I am not living in Reds fantasy land.

Another team's junk may be able to help us out. Ala last year nobody wanted Freel's contract but we were able to turn it into getting Hernandez who helped us out this year. The O's did the deal because they were able to save some cash. We are going to be stuck paying the combined salaries of the both of them, but we may be able to acquire someone who another team has given up on or just wants to be done with with a similar bad contract ending after next season.

Eric Byrnes may be able to give us some benefit as a 5th outfielder. Or he may not. It was an example and I was looking for similar scenarios. If we release the 2 we still have to eat to millions, so why not look to trade it first and find a similar bad contract who may bring use to us.

I would go with the $4 mil sixth outfielder before the $11 mil fifth outfielder;)

Griffey012
09-25-2009, 05:27 PM
I would go with the $4 mil sixth outfielder before the $11 mil fifth outfielder;)

If you are trading away 6.5 million in salaries and getting another 3.5-4 million thrown your way you are not paying another 11 million. You would be adding on .5 to 1 million.

Do you really think someone on this board is that clueless they would add 7 million in payroll for a 5th outfielder? C'mon. I am hoping you just didn't read through the original post or the rest of the thread.

BigPoppa
09-25-2009, 05:27 PM
Willy Taveras for Scott Linebrink?
Willy Taveras for Johnny Peralta?
Willy Taveras for David Dejesus?
Willy Taveras and Bronson Arroyo for Milton Bradley?
Willy Taveras and Aaron Harang for J.D. Drew?
Willy Taveras for Pedro Feliciano?
Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln, and Juan Francisco for Juan Pierre?


Yes. This. :thumbup:

Griffey012
09-25-2009, 05:31 PM
Willy Taveras for Scott Linebrink?
Willy Taveras for Johnny Peralta?
Willy Taveras for David Dejesus?
Willy Taveras and Bronson Arroyo for Milton Bradley?
Willy Taveras and Aaron Harang for J.D. Drew?
Willy Taveras for Pedro Feliciano?
Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln, and Juan Francisco for Juan Pierre?

Considering they saw a lot of value in Betancourt from Seattle, maybe they would be dumb enough to do this deal if we sweetened the pot a bit. Dejesus would be a nice upgrade in the leadoff spot or would fit nicely in the 2 spot.

TheBigLebowski
09-25-2009, 10:36 PM
Re-design GAB to look like first base.

DannyB
09-26-2009, 03:38 PM
If you are trading away 6.5 million in salaries and getting another 3.5-4 million thrown your way you are not paying another 11 million. You would be adding on .5 to 1 million.

Do you really think someone on this board is that clueless they would add 7 million in payroll for a 5th outfielder? C'mon. I am hoping you just didn't read through the original post or the rest of the thread.

Do you really think Arizona would trade Byrnes for Lincoln and Taveras?
Would it be easier for them to get rid of 2 useless players than 1 fairly decent player?

CesarGeronimo
09-26-2009, 04:04 PM
Just get rid of Dusty and Taveras won't be a problem any longer. The Reds owe Dusty $4million for next year, I believe, the same amount they owe Willy.

Griffey012
09-26-2009, 06:15 PM
Do you really think Arizona would trade Byrnes for Lincoln and Taveras?
Would it be easier for them to get rid of 2 useless players than 1 fairly decent player?

There are rumors they may just outright release him so if they could save half a mil to a mil then they would.

roby
09-29-2009, 11:56 AM
There are rumors they may just outright release him so if they could save half a mil to a mil then they would.

That's the answer...Willie, go home!

JohnCocktoasten
09-29-2009, 04:27 PM
I think Kansas City might be a good target. The current CF, Coco Crisp, has a $8M option for 2010 (with a $0.5M buyout) and have no obvious replacements for him (unless they decide to move David DeJesus to CF). They also have three catchers on the roster - Miguel Olivo (who has a mutual option), John Buck (arbitration eligible) and Brayan Pena. Reds will more than likely not pick up Ramon Hernandez's 2010 option for $8.5M, so they have a need for a second catcher (Corky Miller and Craig Tatum will not cut it for 2010). So trade Taveras to KC for John Buck. Buck made $2.9M and, as stated before, is arbitration eligible and will likely command around $4M. So the Reds essentially use Taveras' salary slot for something they need. I know, less than 1% chance of this happening.

Captain Hook
09-29-2009, 05:06 PM
I think Kansas City might be a good target. The current CF, Coco Crisp, has a $8M option for 2010 (with a $0.5M buyout) and have no obvious replacements for him (unless they decide to move David DeJesus to CF). They also have three catchers on the roster - Miguel Olivo (who has a mutual option), John Buck (arbitration eligible) and Brayan Pena. Reds will more than likely not pick up Ramon Hernandez's 2010 option for $8.5M, so they have a need for a second catcher (Corky Miller and Craig Tatum will not cut it for 2010). So trade Taveras to KC for John Buck. Buck made $2.9M and, as stated before, is arbitration eligible and will likely command around $4M. So the Reds essentially use Taveras' salary slot for something they need. I know, less than 1% chance of this happening.

At least you have a good idea of the chances.But it's really not a bad idea.I just think that it would be a miracle if we got anything that would be useful for Willy but who knows.Hopefully Walt is working as hard as you are to come up with a plan to get rid of Taveras.

Griffey012
09-29-2009, 05:25 PM
I think Kansas City might be a good target. The current CF, Coco Crisp, has a $8M option for 2010 (with a $0.5M buyout) and have no obvious replacements for him (unless they decide to move David DeJesus to CF). They also have three catchers on the roster - Miguel Olivo (who has a mutual option), John Buck (arbitration eligible) and Brayan Pena. Reds will more than likely not pick up Ramon Hernandez's 2010 option for $8.5M, so they have a need for a second catcher (Corky Miller and Craig Tatum will not cut it for 2010). So trade Taveras to KC for John Buck. Buck made $2.9M and, as stated before, is arbitration eligible and will likely command around $4M. So the Reds essentially use Taveras' salary slot for something they need. I know, less than 1% chance of this happening.

I like that plan there a lot. If we throw in maybe a low level prospect that we don't value highly maybe we could get the deal done. Buck is not star but he does have a career .700 ops. He could provide some pop while splitting time with Hanigan at catcher.

Slyder
09-29-2009, 07:49 PM
I like that plan there a lot. If we throw in maybe a low level prospect that we don't value highly maybe we could get the deal done. Buck is not star but he does have a career .700 ops. He could provide some pop while splitting time with Hanigan at catcher.

Becareful with the "prospect we don't value". With some of the ??? trades we've made.

Kingspoint
09-29-2009, 07:55 PM
Just get rid of Dusty and Taveras won't be a problem any longer.

We have a winner!

vottofan4life
09-29-2009, 07:57 PM
Reds acquire John Buck, David Dejesus, Mark Teahen
Royals acquire Willy Taveras, Mike Lincoln, Chris Heisey, Billy Bray

Reds acquire Reid Brignac, Andy Sonnaistine
Rays acquire Chris Valaika, Wladimir Balentien, Nick Masset

Indians acquire Paul Janish, Matt Maloney, Wilkin Castillo
Reds acquire Andy Marte, Jeremy Sowers, Kelly Shoppach