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SWIndRed
09-27-2009, 09:17 PM
Stubbs CF
Rolen 3B
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Platoon LF
?????? C
Janish SS

Stubbs is the future lead-off man so might as well let him stay there. You could go Dickerson in a platoon situation if he is healthy but I still like Stubbs here.

Rolen in the 2-hole is interesting. He is a veteran hitter who knows how to work the count which also helps with Stubbs and the running game. I don't think he is the power hitter he was but is a smart hitter.

Votto is our best hitter and therefore in the 3-hole.

Phillips has improved in the 4-hole this year but I'm not against switching Rolen and Phillips (thoughts).

I struggle with putting Bruce this high with his low average but I do like what I have seen from him in the last week or so. If he can become the player he was projected to be, this is the spot for him. It certainly is not a given he is ever going to be that guy however.

I think LF is a definite platoon situation next year unless we make a big trade. Gomes/Dickerson anyone??

Catcher/7-hole. If we are able to resign Hernandez for a lower $$ then he moves up in the line-up. If we go with Hannigan/Tatum/Miller, then 7th is the highest they can bat.

Janish's glove has won me over but he is a 7/8 hitter not a 2. Come on Dusty get a clue please.

Don't trade pitching for anyone. Do consider trading some of our other younger players as we don't seem to have a defensive position for all of them.

UPRedsFan
09-27-2009, 09:43 PM
The biggest problem this offense has is lack of OBP. Dickerson has got to be the everyday centerfielder. Notice his OBP. Everyone seems to forget the guy or count him only as a 4th outfielder.

At least, I play him against right handers and Stubbs only against left handers. Go out and get a productive left fielder to make up for lost offense at SS with Janish

Ghosts of 1990
09-27-2009, 11:13 PM
Remember, according to The Dusty, Jay Bruce is no lock to man RF in 2010......

we can speculate all winter, but who knows what this mental midget numb skull manager of ours will do come opening day 2010. It's a long ways off isn't it.

FlightRick
09-27-2009, 11:49 PM
I was gonna chime in about the Rolen/Phillips 2nd/4th positioning, and how Phillips has upped his game enough this year such that I wouldn't mind giving him and his speed a shot in the 2 hole.

Then I looked at the stats: he only brought the OBP up about 20 points. And some of that comes from his BA going up; he'd really have to add 15-or-so BB next year (basically over-improving upon this year's improvements) before I'd see him as a #2. What Phillips HAS done remarkably well this year is slash his K-rate, but that alone doesn't make him a #2.

Then I also checked out Rolen and realized just how anemic his power numbers have been for some time. And yet: he's a career .370 OBP guy who is OBP'ing .368 this year, and can "handle the bat," as the saying goes. Having a situational hitter like that in the 2-hole is a good idea, I've decided. Having Phillips and his more SLG-driven OPS (and hopefully with some decent threats behind him to drive him in if he can get on and move himself over to 2nd or 3rd) makes a ton of sense in the clean-up spot.

So let's stick with that the way it is, and forget I was under the misapprehension they should be flipped.

Assuming we're stuck with what we got in the outfield, I also find myself agreeing that Dickerson should be looked at as more than just a 150 AB throw-away 4th OF.... I'm massively uncomfortable with the idea of Stubbs/Tavarez manning CF, with Dickerson relegated to spot work in LF. For one: Willy shouldn't see 100 AB next year. I don't care what we're paying him. For two: we resign Gomes, and he should be CLOSE to an everyday LF. His splits this year are almost righty/lefty neutral, so a pure platoon makes no sense there. Let him play. Rest him on particularly bad match-ups versus certain righties, if you want, but unless he just starts stinking it up next year, we should want to see him getting a minimum of 450 ABs.

Dickerson can certainly play some in CF; make it a "hot-hand" issue between him and Stubbs, with whoever's in leading off (and if Tavarez gets a spot start, bat him 8th). And while I think the idea of writing Bruce off is silly (in his Age 22 Season, he's OPS'ing .820-ish versus righties), you can certainly mess around with the idea of giving him days off here and there if he continues to stink it up versus lefties and squeezing Dickerson in that way.

Obviously, I'd have more fun making out a batting order if I could have access to that one bona fide everyday OF (instead of 4 who have a lot of potential, but who could -- one or all -- be utterly inadequate if they don't perform as well as or better than this year) or a SS who wasn't an 8-slot offensive black-hole to give us more options for an OBP/SPEED combo in the 1/2 spots, but if we go with what we got, then the original poster's line-up (with a few day-to-day tweaks for match-ups and upping Dickerson's load) is about as good as we can do, I think.


Rick

Captain Hook
09-28-2009, 01:43 AM
Are you guys kidding me?You all know Dusty is going to be back next year right? Here's how it goes.

1.CF
2.SS
3.1B
4.2b
5.3b
6.RF
7.LF
8.C
9.P

There might be a little wiggle room between 5th and 7th but that's it.Sorry.

Slyder
09-28-2009, 11:31 AM
Are you guys kidding me?You all know Dusty is going to be back next year right? Here's how it goes.

1.CF
2.SS
3.1B
4.2b
5.3b
6.RF
7.LF
8.C
9.P

There might be a little wiggle room between 5th and 7th but that's it.Sorry.

You mean Votto is going to bat 7th when Alonso lifts the entire world on his shoulders in Spring Training and makes the team? Respect dude!

Ghosts of 1990
09-28-2009, 07:38 PM
I think one of the OF will be traded to free up some of the cloggage. Dickerson seems like a likely candidate.

DTCromer
09-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Remember, according to The Dusty, Jay Bruce is no lock to man RF in 2010......

we can speculate all winter, but who knows what this mental midget numb skull manager of ours will do come opening day 2010. It's a long ways off isn't it.

What has Jay Bruce done to prove he's an everyday starter in the majors?

Captain Hook
09-28-2009, 09:34 PM
What has Jay Bruce done to prove he's an everyday starter in the majors?

With his .299 OBP and 20 HR he is a proven nonbaseclogger.He has to play everyday.

flash
09-28-2009, 11:15 PM
Absolutely right about Dickerson, but I would not put a lefthander in left field. It is like having a lefthander at third. Everything is backwards for them. It is one reason Dickerson had problems this year I believe.

DTCromer
09-29-2009, 09:45 AM
What has Jay Bruce done to prove he's an everyday starter in the majors?

I'm being serious. You can't start Jay in RF just because he's Jay Bruce.

Also, I'd like to say I was wrong about Dickerson. he SHOULD be our everyday starter in CF or LF. . .or RF. . . where ever. Actually, now that I think about it, I wouldnt' mind him starting in RF and Stubbs in center. GO ahead and have stubbs leadoff and Dickerson 2nd. . . but he should be playing everyday IMO or at least given the chance.

DannyB
09-30-2009, 08:19 AM
I think one of the OF will be traded to free up some of the cloggage. Dickerson seems like a likely candidate.

Stubbs and Bruce have plenty of options left, I'm sure we will hear about those in the spring.

PhillipsHead
09-30-2009, 04:36 PM
Phillips needs to hit 2!!!!

BLEEDS
09-30-2009, 06:19 PM
Phillips needs to hit 2!!!!

Definitely, he fits the Duhsty mold, can't get on base but he's fast, so put him at the top of the lineup.
At least he's marginally better than Janish at getting on base.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

malcontent
10-01-2009, 01:56 PM
Absolutely right about Dickerson, but I would not put a lefthander in left field. It is like having a lefthander at third. Everything is backwards for them. It is one reason Dickerson had problems this year I believe.
Good point.

RoundingThird
10-02-2009, 10:33 AM
Assuming there is no trade, and that we don't move give Frazier a shot at 2b, moving BP to SS, then....

1. Stubbs CF
2. Rolen 3B (I know he's slow but he knows how to handle a bat, etc)
3. Votto 1B
4. Phillips 2B
5. Bruce RF
6. Gomes? LF
7. ??? C
8. Janish SS

Now, I would like to shake things up and at least see what Frazier can do at 2B (after winter ball) and maybe even see what Francisco can do in the OF, so that would change things. I like Janish' defense but not his bat, and definately not in the 2 hole!

Chris Sabowned
10-06-2009, 11:04 PM
I'd go after Orlando Cabrera or Marco Scutaro for SS. I like Janish but not to start everyday. Of course we're only gonna be able to sign free agents if we lose money somewhere else. For that I would shop Harang, doesn't matter for what, I just think he's done here.

RedLakerFan24
10-06-2009, 11:33 PM
Trade Aaron Harang, Yonder Alonso, and Travis Wood for Jose Reyes

Trade Juan Francisco, Micah Owings and Matt Moloney for Carlos Gomez and Francisco Lariano

Sign Justin Duchscherer

Line Up
1.SS Jose Reyes
2.CF Carlos Gomez
3.1B Joey Votto
4.2B Brandon Phillips
5.3B Scott Rolen
6.RF Jay Bruce
7.LF Drew Stubbs
8.C Ryan Hanigan

Rotation
Bronson Arroyo
Johny Cueto
Homer Bailey
Francisco Lariano
Justin Duchscherer

Bullpen
Francisco Cordero
Nick Masset
Jared Burton
Danny Herrera
Pedro Viola
Arthur Rhodes
FA

UPRedsFan
10-07-2009, 02:31 PM
Must increase OBP, Must increase OBP, Must increase OBP!

To that end, Dickerson must get more AB's. And Bruce must improve.

And Walt needs to find a left fielder who can produce. It's not Gomes. Keep him to pinch hit and spot start against lefties.

It's obviously not Fransisco or Balentien. Dickerson needs to play in center with Stubbs until Stubbs is able to increase his own production.

I like Janish at SS because it rounds out the infield defense as one of the best in the league. But they must have production in left field to accomodate Janish. Magglio?

Dickerson/Stubbs
Phillips
Votto
Left Fielder
Bruce
Rolen
Hannigan
Janish

BLEEDS
10-07-2009, 02:52 PM
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if we sign Magglio Ordonez or any other "Monster" in LF - or even if Gomes and Nix combined OPS of 1.000 with 45 HRs in LF.

As long as Taveras and Janish are on this roster, they will continue to see AB's in the 1-2 spot, hamstringing our offense once again.

We need to get a true SS on this roster, because he's batting 2nd dude.

Then, there's the Taveras problem. We can only hope he gets "Stanton'd" and his $4M salary isn't a barrier to getting rid of him. However, with Duhsty at the healm, I don't think he can get over his man-love no matter how many statistics are thrown his way.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

UPRedsFan
10-07-2009, 08:58 PM
I'm afraid you could be right about Taveras. But will Walt step in and take care of that problem for Dusty? Taveras did sit a lot and Stubbs played even when Taveras got healthy.