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View Full Version : Cardinals Accuse Arroyo Of Cheating



HalMorrisRules
10-01-2009, 05:26 AM
I can not stand the Cardinals and this just adds more to my fire. The reason that Smoltz had trouble throwing with "non-rubbed" baseballs and Arroyo didnt was because, according to Dave Duncan, Arroyo had pine tar on his cap. Read this if you can stomach it:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/prepsports/story/2DE2EA84A70D00BD8625764200139BFC?OpenDocument

Even one of their first three comments said the following:

There were 5 other pitchers in the game. None of them had any trouble with the balls.

Very unprofessional comments coming from very classless people.

Slyder
10-01-2009, 08:28 AM
I wish Arroyo would come out and be like Heres the very hat I wore last night. If you can find pine tar on it that be news to me.

Moosie52
10-01-2009, 08:34 AM
Wouldn't the umps notice if the balls weren't rubbed up? And if they were really white, wouldn't any foreign substance be easy to see? What is Duncan saying, that the umps were bought?

flash
10-01-2009, 09:52 AM
To be honest Arroyo's cap did look dirty, but if there was pine tar on the ball the umps would have seen it.

But if Arroyo did do it, it was his last start of the year in a meaningless game standing wise. Why not if you can get away with it.

DTCromer
10-01-2009, 10:33 AM
I don't see the big deal if he did. I'm all for that type of cheating if you can get away with it. If he gets caught, then so be it. I'm kinda happy someone's at least accusing one of our players for trying to win.

BLEEDS
10-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Lame.

I especially like the comment of "I've only walked 3 guys ALL YEAR"... um, I guess all of your innings in Boston don't count? Are you on a fiscal year that starts in September?!?!
WTF?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

JayBruceFan
10-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Instead of whining to the media after the game, why not say something during the game to the umpires?

GIDP
10-01-2009, 10:54 AM
We all know Arroyo would never cheat...

GIDP
10-01-2009, 10:59 AM
Smoltz seemed upset that Reds rookie Drew Stubbs stole a base with the Reds six runs ahead in the third, as Cincinnati manager Dusty Baker held up three fingers, probably signifying the game was only in the third inning.
"I was frustrated. I'm not going to comment (on the matter)," Smoltz said.

This line made me laugh. Why is it that people go to St. Louis and become the biggest cry babies?

jmac
10-01-2009, 11:54 AM
Lame.

I especially like the comment of "I've only walked 3 guys ALL YEAR"... um, I guess all of your innings in Boston don't count? Are you on a fiscal year that starts in September?!?!
WTF?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS
Great point. Smoltzie forgot he stunk in Boston as well.
Much more garb like this and STL will fall into the same class as Chicago to me.

Rockermann
10-01-2009, 12:51 PM
Fay has Arroyo's response to the controversy:

http://tinyurl.com/ybsnjnn

I love this from Arroyo about the stain on his hat:
"That’s what happens. It’s from playing in every other park where there’s so much mud on the balls that that black stuff comes off on young fingers every time. I guess he said I went to my hat time every time. Yeah, I grab my (crotch) and do 8,000 other twitches. What you want me to do about it? That’s how I pitch.”

aubashbrother
10-01-2009, 12:52 PM
Arroyo fires back


I guarantee when I pitch against the Cardinals next year, I’ll call over and tell Dave Duncan I’m wearing a brand new hat,” Arroyo said.

Reds pitching Dick Pole: “That must have meant (Dennys) Reyes, (Josh) Kinney and (Brad) Thompson were using pine tar, too. They didn’t have any trouble throwing the ball over the plate.”

Reyes, Kinney and Thompson pitched the final innings for the Cardinals. Reyes walked one, the other walked none.

Balls are rubbed with dirt by clubhouse workers.

Arroyo was amused by the controversy.

“The only reason he said that is I’ve been wearing this thing all season,” Arroyo said.

He showed me his hat. It’s stained on the bill.

“That’s what happens. It’s from playing in every other park where there’s so much mud on the balls that that black stuff comes off on young fingers every time. I guess he said I went to my hat time every time. Yeah, I grab my (crotch) and do 8,000 other twitches. What you want me to do about it? That’s how I pitch.”

“The funny thing is normal switch out hats. But I didn’t switch hats because it wasn’t hot enough and it wasn’t soaking wet.”

Arroyo said he’s dealt with balls that were hard to grip, particularly at Yankee Stadium in October.

“That’s just the way it is,” he said. “You find a way to pitch. . . I don’t know I thought I had the day off.”

WildcatFan
10-01-2009, 01:15 PM
I hate Dave Duncan so much — I almost don't want him to be our pitching coach next year!!!!

almost

malcontent
10-01-2009, 01:23 PM
I tend to believe Arroyo when he says the cap stain is from Delaware mud.

But how can umpires prevent the transfer of pine tar from a pitcher's bat (if he uses it), to the bill of his cap?

FlyerFanatic
10-01-2009, 02:46 PM
pretty sure its simple as smoltz realizes hes old and his days are numbered. dave duncan is just trying to back his pitcher up. even the guys on baseball tonight were making fun of the suggestion that something was wrong with the baseballs.

Rockermann
10-01-2009, 04:38 PM
Interesting video from earlier this year explaining and showing how the Reds folks rub up the balls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSe7okTnSI

foxfire123
10-01-2009, 07:12 PM
Living near St Louis, I heard all about this at work today--along with "yeah we put one on the Reds today!" Har har. <what about those last two games bozos? huh?>

One of the guys here claimed that the REDS clubhouse guy went to Duncan and told him that those weren't the balls he rubbed up, that someone switched balls on Smoltz. Any truth/proof of that? or just more Cardinals fan BS?

HalMorrisRules
10-01-2009, 08:33 PM
Honestly, if we were going to try and pull something like this would we try it with Smoltz or Carpenter?

I thought so.

foxfire123
10-01-2009, 10:36 PM
thought so too. Just wanted to double check... :angry:

texasdave
10-02-2009, 01:04 AM
Why would they do it now? The season is over for all intents and purposes. Now if it was a tight pennant race. Maybe.

wojo1025
10-02-2009, 01:30 AM
I love Brantley basically saying Smoltz was reaching for excuses on the broadcast today.

It amazes me that a future Hall of Famer like Smoltz would lower himself to this level. It seems as if he is trying to justify his poor start so he can stay in the playoff rotation. That being said... I dnn't see that happening.

Time to face facts John...it was a great career....but it is over sir.

RoundingThird
10-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Eventhough a lot of people here in Kentucky like the Cardinals, I can't stand them for reasons like this. There is a certain aura around the STL franchise that I don't care for.

malcontent
10-02-2009, 01:53 PM
Interesting video from earlier this year explaining and showing how the Reds folks rub up the balls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSe7okTnSI
Great catch, Rockermann.

What I want to know is:

(1) (Minor point first) Why is Dillon, who was the guy who talked with LaRussa, wearing an Angels T-shirt when he's been with the Reds for 10 years?

(2) How could he tell for sure whether the balls that LaRussa showed him had been rubbed up or not? From watching the video clip I could only tell the difference when they were in the box next to ones that hadn't been done. It doesn't appear to be that obvious.

(3) And what did Dillon mean by this: "I don’t know what happened after they were over there but you look at them (Thursday) and they’ll be the same.” That the balls that Carpenter and company used to shut-out the Reds were the same, supposedly untreated balls?

I think Dillon, who may be a great guy, got nervous and wanted to cover his a$$, and screwed up here. I doubt that mud was somehow removed from the treated balls, or that they were switched with untreated balls. Or that Arroyo's cap stain is anything but what he said it was.

And I'm happy to see Arroyo on the offensive. He's been awesome, pitching like a Cy Young candidate during the second half of the season. But since apparently only Cardinal pitchers can actually do that, his performance is suspect.

I'll be really glad to see the Dodgers send them home (even if it means watching Joe Torre for a second series).

texasdave
10-02-2009, 03:53 PM
I thought there was no crying in baseball. :)

jhiller21
10-02-2009, 08:51 PM
Ever wonder why New Era changed the underside of their cap's bill color from grey to black? Yup...

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091001/capt.ba95267002c240a09df661c910a23537.cardinals_re ds_baseball_csb101.jpg

And it's not that big of a deal, you'd be surprised how many pitchers use it.

Ghosts of 1990
10-02-2009, 10:17 PM
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Arroyo was doctoring baseballs. And if he was--if you're not cheating your not trying.

JayBruceFan
10-02-2009, 10:55 PM
Anybody else think that "Dillon" has been relieved of his duties?

:D

improbus
10-03-2009, 12:29 PM
Isn't LaRussa the guy who had Mark McGwire on his team for years? I've always seen the Cardinals and their ability to "rehabilitate" players as a little fishy. Smoltz in Boston is Elizardo Ramirez and in St. Louis is Bob Gibson. Kyle Lohse is well...Kyle Lohse in Cincy and turns into a Cy Young contender in 2008. Jeff Suppan, Joel Piniero, Ryan Franklin, Braden Looper, etc... Either Duncan is the greatest pitching coach in the history of baseball or something fishy is going on.