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View Full Version : Rob Ryan claims Graham missed game winner in Cleveland



wolfboy
10-09-2009, 05:16 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091009/SPT02/310090070/Browns+coach++Bengals+missed+FG

I don't remember it even being close. Interesting claim though.

Cyclone792
10-09-2009, 05:21 PM
I've only seen it once from the original television angle, which isn't necessarily the best angle. Nevertheless, when I saw it, I thought he missed it myself. I actually remember chuckling when the refs signaled that it was good and figured that the camera angle was screwed up.

WMR
10-09-2009, 05:25 PM
I thought he missed it as well.

bucksfan2
10-09-2009, 05:37 PM
It looked very close. But I think the angle made it more deceiving that it really was. I find it hard to believe that the ref standing right under the goal post would miss that call. It sounds more like a Ryan running his mouth than anything else.

CTA513
10-09-2009, 05:45 PM
The one angle makes it look like he missed it but I saw another angle on either TV or the internet that showed it was good.

wolfboy
10-09-2009, 05:56 PM
It looked very close. But I think the angle made it more deceiving that it really was. I find it hard to believe that the ref standing right under the goal post would miss that call. It sounds more like a Ryan running his mouth than anything else.

I agree on both counts. You'd have to have some unbelievably bad officials to miss whether a field goal was made or not....especially when it's a potential game winner.

Redlegs23
10-09-2009, 06:02 PM
The replay on youtube looks like he missed it, that's the endzone angle. It's not the best quality though, so I'm guessing the official right under the goal post had a better shot at it than we do from the endzone camera.

NorrisHopper30
10-09-2009, 06:48 PM
I thought he missed it from every angle I saw, but Shayne Graham's reaction RIGHT after he kicked it makes me think it went in.

Brutus
10-09-2009, 06:59 PM
I also thought he missed it from the only view I saw of it. My friends thought that too. They swear by it. I'll have to look at it again, but from that endzone angle, it definitely seemed to go left (right if you are looking at it from the players' point of view).

Brutus
10-09-2009, 07:25 PM
I've watched this several times now. No question in my mind this was missed.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2356/missedfg.jpg

And a HD video on NFL.com.

Ryan disputes call (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81346124&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

Reds4Life
10-09-2009, 08:34 PM
I think it was just the angle the ball was kicked from, which makes it look wide on the endzone camera.

There were 2 refs in the endzone, and both of them signaled it was a good kick.

GIDP
10-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Typical self hating bengal fans would think he missed that kick.

CTA513
10-09-2009, 09:11 PM
Refs called it good and I remember seeing another angle that showed the ball being inside the poles.


- Cover Chad Ochocinco in the end zone on 4th and 10 and the Browns win the game.
- Don't allow Palmer to run 15 yards untouched on 4th and 11 and that field goal wouldn't have been attempted.

Highlifeman21
10-09-2009, 09:18 PM
I've only seen it once from the original television angle, which isn't necessarily the best angle. Nevertheless, when I saw it, I thought he missed it myself. I actually remember chuckling when the refs signaled that it was good and figured that the camera angle was screwed up.

Everyone at the bar where I watched the game thought Graham missed the FG at the end of OT.

I don't remember them showing another angle, only the one as he kicked it essentially at the camera. Looked like he missed it to the right to me.

wolfboy
10-09-2009, 09:46 PM
I'd have to see it from another angle before.

camisadelgolf
10-09-2009, 09:49 PM
He clearly made it (although I was very skeptical at the time).

Brutus
10-09-2009, 09:50 PM
I think it was just the angle the ball was kicked from, which makes it look wide on the endzone camera.

There were 2 refs in the endzone, and both of them signaled it was a good kick.

Part of the ball is missing in that picture. Even with the angle, the ball should not disappear if it were in front of the goal post because the position of the camera is behind the post as it is.

The video link shows one other angle from the right sideline on the field. That angle is not conclusive, but it does not bode any better for the Bengals' cause as to the success (or lack thereof) of that kick.

Given the Denver loss, I would not feel bad about stealing this one away. It kind of evens out for me. Even more amusing is that the Browns' fans are not really outraged over this perceived injustice, but rather take it as another sign they're simply cursed and are rather empathetic toward the matter.

Anyhow, I've looked at both angles at least 20 times, pausing them almost each time where the ball goes past the upright. Each time, I've concluded that ball did not travel between the goal posts.

traderumor
10-09-2009, 11:11 PM
I thought he missed it, but I am looking at the same poor end zone angle that Ryan is looking at. Graham's reaction and the Browns' player that was on that side of the goal post clinched it for me. The refs did not hesitate. Wex is whining. Makes for good interviews. Makes him sound like a rednecked buffoon just by opening his mouth.

wolfboy
10-09-2009, 11:14 PM
Makes him sound like a rednecked buffoon just by opening his mouth.

He doesn't have to open his mouth to pull that one off.

traderumor
10-09-2009, 11:21 PM
I've watched this several times now. No question in my mind this was missed.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2356/missedfg.jpg

And a HD video on NFL.com.

Ryan disputes call (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81346124&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)The ball has already crossed the crossbar where you are pointing at the ball. None of the reactions of the players after the kick went through disputed. The Browns waving their arms were doing so while the ball was traveling to the goalpost, then they quit doing it after they saw the ball go through and the call. If he had missed it and the refs blew it like you contend, they would have been storming those refs, without a doubt.

traderumor
10-09-2009, 11:22 PM
BTW, the biggest thing Whiny Wex needs is a real haircut.

Brutus
10-09-2009, 11:30 PM
The ball has already crossed the crossbar where you are pointing at the ball. None of the reactions of the players after the kick went through disputed. The Browns waving their arms were doing so while the ball was traveling to the goalpost, then they quit doing it after they saw the ball go through and the call. If he had missed it and the refs blew it like you contend, they would have been storming those refs, without a doubt.

How do you suggest it had crossed the crossbar when it's partially hidden behind the goal post? If it had already crossed, the view of the ball could not partially obstructed, as it would be between the goal post and the camera (and not behind it).

guttle11
10-09-2009, 11:48 PM
I have 20/20 vision and one of the best monitors you can buy...and I can't tell that a portion of the ball is shielded by the goalpost. I don't see how you can make that claim with a straight face. That picture isn't clear.

The ref had the best possible look and didn't hesitate. The players on the field all had good looks as to how the ball went past the post. That's as clear of a picture as you can get. It was close for sure, but there's no reason to believe the ref got the call wrong.

guttle11
10-09-2009, 11:59 PM
Here's a picture that was on Deadspin.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/10/500x_custom_1255123954874_bengalsfgspotlight.jpg

Caveat Emperor
10-10-2009, 12:03 AM
I thought he missed it when I first saw it -- and I've yet to see a TV angle where it looks like he made it.

Brutus
10-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Here's a picture that was on Deadspin.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/11/2009/10/500x_custom_1255123954874_bengalsfgspotlight.jpg

To me that's a (nearly) cut and dry picture. You cannot see all of the ball but you can see all of the goal post. If the ball were passing through the uprights, that would be reversed - you'd see all of the ball but not all of the upright.

I realize it's blurry and it's not the best of quality, but for me the simple physics of it override any doubt I have about the sight lines.

Yachtzee
10-10-2009, 01:02 AM
What's the point? The game is over. It's not like they're going to overrule it now. They only way we're going to be able to tell if it was good or not is if they have a camera shot from under the goal posts.

Brutus
10-10-2009, 01:07 AM
What's the point? The game is over. It's not like they're going to overrule it now. They only way we're going to be able to tell if it was good or not is if they have a camera shot from under the goal posts.

I'm sure there would be massive outrage and a whole lot of discussion if the Bengals lost in this same manner. Not many people would be taking the "so what" approach. I see no harm in admitting it may have been a favorable mistake for the Bengals. It doesn't change anything, but that doesn't mean it's not OK to discuss.

kaldaniels
10-10-2009, 01:26 AM
Good. Note the lower right quadrant of the ball overlapping the goalpost. I'm a Browns fan by the way.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/ben1835/CIMG0154.jpg

Yachtzee
10-10-2009, 01:54 AM
I'm sure there would be massive outrage and a whole lot of discussion if the Bengals lost in this same manner. Not many people would be taking the "so what" approach. I see no harm in admitting it may have been a favorable mistake for the Bengals. It doesn't change anything, but that doesn't mean it's not OK to discuss.

Well, it just seems ridiculous to overanalyze a picture from an angle that doesn't give us the best view when 1) the refs said it was good; 2) The reaction of the players said it was good; and 3) Browns fans sitting in that endzone have said it was good. The only person who has made a peep about this is Ryan and he was in no position to tell and people who have seen it on TV, but only from a single angle.

Playadlc
10-10-2009, 02:48 AM
Anyone could pull pics out of a video that make it look like they want it to look. That set of pics is grabage. A few stills of a VERY dynamic event prove nothing other than what the publisher of the pics want them to show.

Matt700wlw
10-10-2009, 03:59 AM
In order to avoid 0-5, he should focus on T.O. and Buffalo.

He may have an argument, but oh well....sucks to be Cleveland :)

traderumor
10-10-2009, 07:38 AM
To me that's a (nearly) cut and dry picture. You cannot see all of the ball but you can see all of the goal post. If the ball were passing through the uprights, that would be reversed - you'd see all of the ball but not all of the upright.

I realize it's blurry and it's not the best of quality, but for me the simple physics of it override any doubt I have about the sight lines.I see the opposite--all of the ball and a smidge of the upright missing. I wonder, is that a second ball on the grassy knoll?

reds1869
10-10-2009, 10:36 AM
One of two things happened: 1) the refs got it right or 2) the refs intentionally threw the game in favor of the Bengals. Since I don't ever see number two happening, I say they got it right. Not a single one of the stills or videos in this thread is from a head on angle directly behind the post. This is like arguing balls and strikes based on the TV camera.

In the end, it boils down to this: Bengals win. Browns coaches polishing resumes.

jimbo
10-10-2009, 12:13 PM
I see no problem with having a discussion on the topic. I also don't see any whining coming from Ryan, he simply made a comment during an interview. I have no doubt that some Bengal fans would also be discussing it if the tables were turned.

Having said that, I don't see how we can come to any definitive answer by any of the video or stills. It is simply too bad of an angle. Two refs were under the goalposts and they both said it was good, two people who had the best viewpoint of all of us.

I'm a Browns fan by the way.

GIDP
10-10-2009, 12:16 PM
Clearly getting to cleveland makes you a mental case

CTA513
10-10-2009, 03:04 PM
Channel 12 had a camera at the game that showed a better view.
The quality of the video isn't that good at all but you can see the kick was good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcPxAfIT5Bc

reds1869
10-10-2009, 03:13 PM
CTA513, that is a GREAT vantage point in Channel 12's video. Case closed.

traderumor
10-10-2009, 03:20 PM
Yea, that video clinches why the refs called what they did, and why everyone reacted the way they did. Ok, Wex, we checked the video and you're wrong, now what? Any other theories? Of course, those were Cincy cameras, they could've doctored the video :rolleyes:

Brutus, care to change your position? Apparently, thy eyes have deceived you, even with HD ;)

Brutus
10-10-2009, 03:35 PM
Yea, that video clinches why the refs called what they did, and why everyone reacted the way they did. Ok, Wex, we checked the video and you're wrong, now what? Any other theories? Of course, those were Cincy cameras, they could've doctored the video :rolleyes:

Brutus, care to change your position? Apparently, thy eyes have deceived you, even with HD ;)

lol I stand corrected. Nothing to see here.

BoydsOfSummer
10-13-2009, 06:58 AM
Keep calling those blitzes, Rob!

GAC
10-13-2009, 09:05 AM
Keep calling those blitzes, Rob!

On or off the field? :D

But I like Ryan. He's wrong in this particular instance, but I think he'll do OK in Cleveland.

BoxingRed
10-13-2009, 09:10 AM
I see the opposite--all of the ball and a smidge of the upright missing. I wonder, is that a second ball on the grassy knoll?

I second that.

goreds2
10-18-2009, 02:44 AM
I've watched this several times now. No question in my mind this was missed.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2356/missedfg.jpg

And a HD video on NFL.com.

Ryan disputes call (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81346124&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

You see the Browns fans in the endzone not disputing the call either.

GIDP
10-18-2009, 09:54 AM
Rob Ryan is what The dude would look like in the big lebowski if John Goodman played him instead of Jeff Bridges.

traderumor
10-18-2009, 05:28 PM
Wait til Rob Ryan sees the phantom first down on replay from the Pittsburgh game. He'll pull out some more of those beautiful long, gray locks.