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batsfan
11-17-2009, 07:20 PM
According to Marty on the Hot Stove league, the Reds had a corporate luncheon yesterday, and Jocketty showed a depth chart that including:

Chris Heisey #1 LF

Willy Tavares #3 CF after Stubbs and Dickerson

Janish #1 SS

Jocketty also said that Brandon Phillips will not be traded, and the rumors were just because reporters wanted something to write about during the GM meetings.

Intresting...

mdccclxix
11-17-2009, 07:36 PM
That is interesting and (i hope) a sign that they are not fooled by Dusty's magic on Gomes. They know Gomes finished poorly (i hope) and they know his only true value is against lefties (i hope).

It's good to hear Marty - cranky as ever!

RedLakerFan24
11-17-2009, 08:41 PM
also read somewhere that Marty said the Reds have interest in Hanley Ramirez..can someone explain this?

mdccclxix
11-17-2009, 08:57 PM
Hanley is underrated, maybe they can sneak him away from FLA :rolleyes:

bigredmechanism
11-17-2009, 09:16 PM
I hate reading comments like that. I get way too optimistic.

Well, we DID get Griffey, after all. But it's really doubtful.

TC81190
11-17-2009, 10:14 PM
also read somewhere that Marty said the Reds have interest in Hanley Ramirez..can someone explain this?
Whoa, seriously?

Z-Fly
11-17-2009, 10:41 PM
I hate reading comments like that. I get way too optimistic.

Well, we DID get Griffey, after all. But it's really doubtful.

Different Owner/GM

RedLakerFan24
11-17-2009, 10:59 PM
1. Drew Stubbs
2. Brandon Phillips
3. Joey Votto
4. Hanley Ramirez
5. Scott Rolen
6. Jay Bruce
7. Ramon Hernandez
8. LF?


One Can Only Dream

Gamble
11-18-2009, 02:00 AM
I could never see a deal for Hanley going down, but if it did this is the lineup I would like to see:

CF. Drew Stubbs
3B. Scott Rolen
SS. Hanley Ramirez
1B. Joey Votto
2B. Brandon Phillips
RF. Jay Bruce
C. Ramon Hernandez
LF. Chris Heisey

A deal for Ramirez would have to start with Yonder Alonzo, Travis Wood, and Juan Francisco.. and that's just to get Larry Beinfest to listen.

Kingspoint
11-18-2009, 05:57 AM
According to Marty on the Hot Stove league, the Reds had a corporate luncheon yesterday, and Jocketty showed a depth chart that including:

Chris Heisey #1 LF

Willy Tavares #3 CF after Stubbs and Dickerson

Janish #1 SS

Jocketty also said that Brandon Phillips will not be traded, and the rumors were just because reporters wanted something to write about during the GM meetings.

Intresting...

Great all the way around.

Good. Good. Good.

Can't say it enough.

Good.

Old NDN
11-18-2009, 10:15 AM
How can you project Heisey as your starting LF? He hasn't played in a MLB game yet. Gomes and Nix combined for 43 2B, 35 HR, 97 RBI, and .253 avg. last year. I don't think you're going to get that kind of production out of any other combination of LF prospects on the 40 man roster. How much improvement can we expect from other options? I know the defense could be better but, I just don't see a glaring need in LF now. And, I think he is one of the leaders in the clubhouse. Maybe last season was an exception for Gomes, and he might not repeat those numbers. But, at least he's a proven MLB player. IMO, he's worth the chance. If $$ is that big a problem (Hernandez?), then it's another long season for the fans (again).

freestyle55
11-18-2009, 10:21 AM
also read somewhere that Marty said the Reds have interest in Hanley Ramirez..can someone explain this?

He and Thom were saying that the org didn't want to trade Brandon Phillips, but if the right people were available, you had to make the trade. They then said that Hanley Ramirez might be on the block, and if they could get him, you'd have to make a deal. Basically, it was father and son rambling for a few minutes with absolutely no indication that the organization was on this path.

RedLegsToday
11-18-2009, 10:23 AM
A deal for Ramirez would have to start with Yonder Alonzo, Travis Wood, and Juan Francisco.. and that's just to get Larry Beinfest to listen.

Give'em Frazier or Heisey and get this done!

Old NDN
11-18-2009, 12:33 PM
Didn't Hanley have some slacker/attitude problems last year? No doubt he is a great talent. I would at least "kick the tires" and see what it would take.

redsfalife
11-18-2009, 12:49 PM
also read somewhere that Marty said the Reds have interest in Hanley Ramirez..can someone explain this?

Link?...I know you said you saw it somewhere but link if possible?.....Thats like saying I saw recently that Alien life has been discovered on earth

mattfeet
11-18-2009, 01:52 PM
Link?...I know you said you saw it somewhere but link if possible?.....Thats like saying I saw recently that Alien life has been discovered on earth

In other news, water was just discovered on the moon. Just sayin', anything is possible.

-Matt

Boston Red
11-18-2009, 02:21 PM
also read somewhere that Marty said the Reds have interest in Hanley Ramirez..can someone explain this?

Every team has an interest in Hanley Ramirez.

mattfeet
11-18-2009, 02:23 PM
Every team has an interest in Hanley Ramirez.

Sometimes it's the obvious that's the hardest for some to see.

I had my :cool: (read: reality blockers) on as well.

-Matt

TheBigLebowski
11-18-2009, 02:28 PM
I have interest in Catherine Bell. And I have as much chance in landing her as the Reds do Hanley.

texasdave
11-18-2009, 02:50 PM
I have interest in Catherine Bell. And I have as much chance in landing her as the Reds do Hanley.


I know for a fact that Catherine Bell swoons at the mention of Bakermetrics. I think you're in like Flynn.

TheBigLebowski
11-18-2009, 03:33 PM
I know for a fact that Catherine Bell swoons at the mention of Bakermetrics. I think you're in like Flynn.

Maybe there's hope...for all of us.

Vottomatic
11-18-2009, 03:53 PM
Hanley Ramirez is due to make
'10: $7M
'11: $11M
'12: $15M
'13: $15.5M
'14: $16M

I don't see that one working out, especially with Votto, Bruce, and others becoming arbitration eligible and free agents over time.

RedLakerFan24
11-18-2009, 07:30 PM
Hanley Ramirez is due to make
'10: $7M
'11: $11M
'12: $15M
'13: $15.5M
'14: $16M

I don't see that one working out, especially with Votto, Bruce, and others becoming arbitration eligible and free agents over time.

yeah but remember Arroyo and Harang are done after this season, and Cordero only has 2 years left

NeilHamburger
11-18-2009, 11:41 PM
Lol, don't worry about their arbitration. For the Marlins to even listen the conversation starts with Votto and Bruce or Bailey.

DannyB
11-19-2009, 08:22 AM
Hanley Ramirez is due to make
'10: $7M
'11: $11M
'12: $15M
'13: $15.5M
'14: $16M

I don't see that one working out, especially with Votto, Bruce, and others becoming arbitration eligible and free agents over time.

In the Marlins eyes(Loria) those are 5 good reasons to move Hanley.

Plus Plus
11-19-2009, 12:21 PM
Hanley Ramirez is due to make
'10: $7M
'11: $11M
'12: $15M
'13: $15.5M
'14: $16M

I don't see that one working out, especially with Votto, Bruce, and others becoming arbitration eligible and free agents over time.

Here are Hanley Ramirez's numbers:


Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards
2005 21 BOS AL 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .000 .000 .000 .000 -100 0 0 0 0 0 0 /6
2006 22 FLA NL 158 700 633 119 185 46 11 17 59 51 15 56 128 .292 .353 .480 .833 116 304 7 4 5 2 0 *6 RoY-1
2007 23 FLA NL 154 706 639 125 212 48 6 29 81 51 14 52 95 .332 .386 .562 .948 145 359 10 7 4 4 3 *6/D MVP-10
2008 24 FLA NL 153 693 589 125 177 34 4 33 67 35 12 92 122 .301 .400 .540 .940 143 318 5 8 0 4 9 *6/D AS,MVP-11,SS
2009 25 FLA NL 151 652 576 101 197 42 1 24 106 27 8 61 101 .342 .410 .543 .954 148 313 9 9 1 5 14 *6 AS,SS
5 Seasons 21-25 FLA/BOS AL/NL618 2753 2439 470 771 170 22 103 313 164 49 261 448 .316 .386 .531 .917 138 1294 31 28 10 15 26

(I apologize for any weird formatting... still new to code tags...)

I think most teams (the Reds included) those amounts for this player in a heartbeat- let alone a SS.

mattfeet
11-19-2009, 02:00 PM
Good post, I agree. Now, the next (inevitable) question how much is "too much" for Scutaro?

-Matt

bigredmechanism
11-20-2009, 12:09 AM
I have interest in Catherine Bell. And I have as much chance in landing her as the Reds do Hanley.

I like the cut of your jib.

DannyB
11-21-2009, 04:40 PM
Sure hope Walt showed that chart to Duhsty;)

FlyerFanatic
11-21-2009, 08:08 PM
i dont care if jocketty does make the depth chart. if taveras is on this team, willy will be leading off. theres no way dusty is told he cant fill out the lineup card how he wants.

malcontent
11-24-2009, 03:04 AM
i dont care if jocketty does make the depth chart. if taveras is on this team, willy will be leading off. theres no way dusty is told he cant fill out the lineup card how he wants.
That's true. Toothpick chafes, big-time, whenever his lineups are questioned.

Hopefully this is his last year in Cincy.

Plus Plus
11-24-2009, 10:12 AM
i dont care if jocketty does make the depth chart. if taveras is on this team, willy will be leading off. theres no way dusty is told he cant fill out the lineup card how he wants.

This is a misconception that is dramatically incorrect. Drew Stubbs was called up and made his first appearance as a Red on August 19th. From Aug. 19 to the end of the season, Stubbs played in all but two games (all of which one were starts), whereas Taveras played in four games, only two of which were starts. Taveras was on the DL from Aug 20 to Sep 23, but there were several quotes about Taveras being "Wally Pipp-ed," Baker questioning Taveras' work ethic in a sideways manner, and that Baker and Jocketty loved Stubbs play. There also appeared to be no rush to get Taveras back from the DL. Stubbs will be the starting CF going forward, unless something dramatic changes. I dont even know that a cold spring from Stubbs and a hot one from Taveras that at this point.

FlyerFanatic
11-24-2009, 02:51 PM
This is a misconception that is dramatically incorrect. Drew Stubbs was called up and made his first appearance as a Red on August 19th. From Aug. 19 to the end of the season, Stubbs played in all but two games (all of which one were starts), whereas Taveras played in four games, only two of which were starts. Taveras was on the DL from Aug 20 to Sep 23, but there were several quotes about Taveras being "Wally Pipp-ed," Baker questioning Taveras' work ethic in a sideways manner, and that Baker and Jocketty loved Stubbs play. There also appeared to be no rush to get Taveras back from the DL. Stubbs will be the starting CF going forward, unless something dramatic changes. I dont even know that a cold spring from Stubbs and a hot one from Taveras that at this point.

i'll believe it when i see it. baker tends to think he can mold people into hitters, there were numerous quotes of him talking about how he worked with willy in the batting cage. give him a full off season and spring training, wouldnt surprise me to see dusty stick willy back at leading off.

Plus Plus
11-24-2009, 04:14 PM
i'll believe it when i see it. baker tends to think he can mold people into hitters, there were numerous quotes of him talking about how he worked with willy in the batting cage. give him a full off season and spring training, wouldnt surprise me to see dusty stick willy back at leading off.

But all of those quotes came before the season, not after he was terrible for five months. Ever since Stubbs' arrival the quotes have been in praise of Stubbs and have talked about how he will be the starting CF going forward. I think Taveras will stay on the roster, but as the worst #4/5 OF in baseball rather than the worst starting CF in baseball. $4mm is a huge cost to just decide to eat for this franchise.

FlyerFanatic
11-24-2009, 05:22 PM
But all of those quotes came before the season, not after he was terrible for five months. Ever since Stubbs' arrival the quotes have been in praise of Stubbs and have talked about how he will be the starting CF going forward. I think Taveras will stay on the roster, but as the worst #4/5 OF in baseball rather than the worst starting CF in baseball. $4mm is a huge cost to just decide to eat for this franchise.

those quotes came before the season? what!? those quotes came after his slump. when taveras went down with his "hamstring injury" and was set to come back, baker was talking about how he had been working with willy in the batting cages.

we might have to agree to disagree on taveras, dusty stuck with patterson and taveras way to long for me to believe he wont go back to taveras next season.

Plus Plus
11-24-2009, 05:49 PM
those quotes came before the season? what!? those quotes came after his slump. when taveras went down with his "hamstring injury" and was set to come back, baker was talking about how he had been working with willy in the batting cages.

we might have to agree to disagree on taveras, dusty stuck with patterson and taveras way to long for me to believe he wont go back to taveras next season.

The "Wally Pipp" comment also came from Baker after Taveras went down with his hamstring injury, and quotes from Baker seemed to show a level of frustration re: Taveras' work ethic. I have no doubt that Taveras will not see much action in CF barring some extreme circumstance. Patterson was also the only true CF on the roster after the myriad of injuries, and while he couldn't hit his weight, he could still provide great defense.

Agreeing to disagree might be the best situation here though, I agree.

Dracodave
11-25-2009, 12:07 AM
Simply put Willys problem was not walking enough and not having enough power to hit the ball past the middle infield.

18 walks last seasons alone with his peak being 36 walks.

Look at Chone Figgins, while not being a power-producing third baseman the man is FANTASTIC at using what little power he has and what a great sense of the strike zone he has to produce 101 walks.

The problem with Willy is his immense talent to move the bat, when he shouldn't be.