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Caveat Emperor
11-24-2009, 10:58 PM
Rumors are swirling around Brian Kelly regarding the impending job opening at Notre Dame. Depending on where you read it or hear it, the rumors range from "done deal" to "conversations via 3rd parties." Some say he's the main target, some indicate that he's a fallback position if ND can't land Bob Stoops or Urban Meyer.

For his part, Kelly didn't take the "pledge" (as Urban Meyer did regarding his future at Florida) today at his presser.

So, your best guess -- where is Brian Kelly in 2010?

Sea Ray
11-24-2009, 11:01 PM
It will take a miracle to keep him around in 2010. It's very unlikely they'll even be able to keep him around to coach in a Bowl game, unfortunately.

Cyclone792
11-24-2009, 11:11 PM
I think Kelly's the diversion while Notre Dame quietly lands somebody else that we haven't yet heard of.

paintmered
11-24-2009, 11:13 PM
I put it at 50/50 based off of nothing more than gut feelings and optimism.

Redlegs23
11-24-2009, 11:39 PM
I voted South Bend, but who really knows.

Mario-Rijo
11-25-2009, 12:37 AM
If he's smart he'll stay where he is. That said if he indeed goes to ND it should be an interesting transition, I'm not sure ND has the speed and athleticism available he had when he got to UC (thanks to Dantonio). It might eventually work for him there if they give him the time to turn it around, not so sure they will.

Razor Shines
11-25-2009, 01:16 AM
I hope he's at ND, I'd rather have Kelly than Meyer or Stoops.

Redsfan320
11-25-2009, 10:46 AM
I said he'll stay in Cincy. This is a wish, as well as an expectation. He seems to like it here, although I know that a bigger paycheck can change one's feelings pretty quickly.

320

JaxRed
11-25-2009, 10:57 AM
I say ND. I think Weiss gets the can (especially if he loses to Stanford). Urban would not leave Florida to go to ND. Kelly just makes too much sense

Roy Tucker
11-25-2009, 11:57 AM
I have a hard time getting a read on it. The fact that Kelly does not deny it sounds like coachspeak for yes, I'll take the job if offered.

And I haven't gotten a handle on what Kelly's flaws are. Those flaws will get exacerbated under the ND magnifying glass and there are a lot of dead burnt ant ND coaches around. Will he be like Rich Rod and flunk out or like Urban Meyer and wildly succeed? Don't know.

jimbo
11-25-2009, 12:23 PM
Will he be like Rich Rod and flunk out or like Urban Meyer and wildly succeed? Don't know.

Brian Kelly > Rich Rod

Caveat Emperor
11-25-2009, 12:29 PM
The more and more you look at things, the more it seems pretty obvious that he's obviously got some kind of agreement with Notre Dame's people. The only question remaining, I guess, is if Notre Dame finds someone they like more (Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, etc.) at the 11th hour and leaves Kelly standing at the alter.

I think UC's in trouble -- they aren't likely to find a guy like Kelly, who merges an exciting brand of football with a great ability to sell the program locally, as a replacement.

Sea Ray
11-25-2009, 01:08 PM
The more and more you look at things, the more it seems pretty obvious that he's obviously got some kind of agreement with Notre Dame's people. The only question remaining, I guess, is if Notre Dame finds someone they like more (Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, etc.) at the 11th hour and leaves Kelly standing at the alter.

I think UC's in trouble -- they aren't likely to find a guy like Kelly, who merges an exciting brand of football with a great ability to sell the program locally, as a replacement.

I could be way off base but I'm thinking asst coach Kerry Coombs may be the guy. He's very enthusiastic, has Cincinnati ties and could also sell the program.

Reds4Life
11-25-2009, 01:14 PM
I could be way off base but I'm thinking asst coach Kerry Coombs may be the guy. He's very enthusiastic, has Cincinnati ties and could also sell the program.

He isn't ready to take over as a head coach for a D1 BCS program, IMO. He has zero head coaching expierence at this level.

flyer85
11-25-2009, 01:20 PM
If ND wasn't so inept I would say he would be in South Bend. However, the recent coaching searches have turned into disasters so I expect more of the same(means someone other than Kelly).

BuckeyeRed27
11-25-2009, 01:24 PM
It would be great if Kelly stayed at UC. Watching how fast that program has grown is really exciting. I think the only way he stays is if UC finds its way in the NCG this year in a Les Miles with Michigan type situation. The other possibility is in Urban wants the job, but same problem for ND in that he is unlikely to leave before a major bowl game appearance and ND wants a coach before that.

Reds4Life
11-25-2009, 01:47 PM
It would be great if Kelly stayed at UC. Watching how fast that program has grown is really exciting. I think the only way he stays is if UC finds its way in the NCG this year in a Les Miles with Michigan type situation. The other possibility is in Urban wants the job, but same problem for ND in that he is unlikely to leave before a major bowl game appearance and ND wants a coach before that.

Meyer isn't leaving Florida, that is nothing but wishful thinking by Notre Dame fans.

Caveat Emperor
11-25-2009, 01:52 PM
I could be way off base but I'm thinking asst coach Kerry Coombs may be the guy. He's very enthusiastic, has Cincinnati ties and could also sell the program.

Coombs as a head coach would be a disaster. He has no experience, even at the coordinator level, at a D-1 program, and his time as a high school coach was spent running an option-style attack. He's a fantastic resource for local high school recruiting, but he's not head coaching material.

Puffy
11-25-2009, 01:54 PM
If ND wasn't so inept I would say he would be in South Bend. However, the recent coaching searches have turned into disasters so I expect more of the same(means someone other than Kelly).

Don't expect that - Jack Swarbrick is not Kevin White. Kevin White was in way over his head and that was the reason ND looked so inept during their last two coaching searches.

Obviously, Urban Meyer is my number 1 choice. Clausen is gone and Dayne Crist is perfect for Meyer's offense. He is a better pro prospect Alex Smith type. He is not Tim Tebow perfect, but he is next level down for Urban's spread.

Stoops is second choice. Midwest, Catholic, good recruiter, good coach. Kinda fallen into what Ohio State fans gripe about with Tressel though. Won big games early, but lately have been big game flops. Still a great coach though.

Then we get to Kelly. I like Kelly more than Patterson of TCU, but I personally think ND goes to Patterson. As I stated in another thread there seems to be so much smoke around Kelly that I just believe there must be something to it. I think Kelly is a grand slam while Patterson is, well, I don't know. His recruiting right now is to keep in touch with Texas kids, let Texas, TT and Oklahoma get who they want and then take the rest. Thats great for TCU but at ND he'd actually have to compete against Ohio STate, Florida, USC, etc for kids and he doesn't have to do that now. Texas has so many kids he can just sit back and wait (much like South Florida can do because of all the Florida kids). That won't work at a midwest school.

So, I think Kelly stays at UC. He leaves if ND offers him, but I just don't see that coming and I don't think he leaves for any other job except Michigan and thats not open til next year (sorry Red Leader)

Puffy
11-25-2009, 01:56 PM
Coombs as a head coach would be a disaster.

Screw you!

Oh, the other Coombs - sorry.;)

redsfanmia
11-25-2009, 02:30 PM
I think Kelly holds out for the Michigan job.

Oxblood
11-25-2009, 02:40 PM
Too bad ND won't keep Weiss on for another year, this year was a laugh riot.

flyer85
11-25-2009, 02:57 PM
Who nows how it plays out.

The recent recipe for disaster goes something like this
1) go a after a high profile coach who is not likely to come (in this case Meyer or Stoops)
2) get lots of publicity
3) panic after not getting the high profile guys

If ND were smart they would skip the Meyer and Stoops. Might they come? How many teams in recent years have coaches left a high profile for a lateral/lesser move?

They need to find out about the interest of Kelly in ND? ND should already have done their due diligence and know whether they want him as coach. Let me know the job is his if he wants ... no interview.

If he isn't, at that point open up the search to candidates and go through a hiring process.

cincrazy
11-25-2009, 04:07 PM
I think it's especially telling that Kelly didn't make any denials regarding ND interest. He hasn't pulled a Nick Saban, which is good for him. But on the same hand, if I were a Bearcats fan, I would hate that.

I think if ND wants him, he's gone. And barring Meyer or Stoops landing in South Bend, that's probably likely.

LawFive
11-25-2009, 07:17 PM
I think it's especially telling that Kelly didn't make any denials regarding ND interest....I think if ND wants him, he's gone.

Bingo. I'd hate to see him go as much as the next guy, but anyone with half a brain can see right thru his non-denial at the presser yesterday.

BearcatShane
11-27-2009, 02:13 AM
I could tell you guys something, but if I did and it got around, I'd get in serious trouble. (well not SERIOUS trouble but people would be pissed at me)


Look, Kelly is not going to say he's staying or leaving when asked right now. He has a method to his madness.


Ohhhh some replies in this thread are making me SO mad lol. But I could see why people would feel this way right now.

DoogMinAmo
11-27-2009, 02:35 AM
I could tell you guys something, but if I did and it got around, I'd get in serious trouble. (well not SERIOUS trouble but people would be pissed at me)


Look, Kelly is not going to say he's staying or leaving when asked right now. He has a method to his madness.


Ohhhh some replies in this thread are making me SO mad lol. But I could see why people would feel this way right now.

I am truly excited for the day that we no longer have to hear about these controversies.

The obvious jockeying/leverage for better pay and facilities aside, with Kelly's history in politics, I would not be surprised if his secrecy had something to do with a self-esteem boost for the UC football program. He speaks so often of people not seeing it as a destination program, an off-season where the hottest coaching prospect in the country inconceivably turns down an elite program because "UC is a destination job" could do wonders for changing the psyche of a city and the program's fans.

That being said, I find this agenda only marginally plausible. However, I am going to enjoy the H-E-double hockey sticks out of this season no matter what.

And if he stays, awesome!

If he doesn't, the program is in much better shape now, and let's hope the Thomas' skill/ luck in choosing coaches continues.

redsfan1966
11-27-2009, 05:57 PM
Notre Dame, book it. My only regret will be that he will probably turn Notre Dame into a national power again....

cincrazy
11-27-2009, 07:19 PM
I could tell you guys something, but if I did and it got around, I'd get in serious trouble. (well not SERIOUS trouble but people would be pissed at me)


Look, Kelly is not going to say he's staying or leaving when asked right now. He has a method to his madness.


Ohhhh some replies in this thread are making me SO mad lol. But I could see why people would feel this way right now.

I mean this with all due respect, because I know it's a touchy situation, however...

If Notre Dame wants that guy, and offers him the kind of money they're capable of offering him, I see no chance of him remaining in Cincinnati.

They pay more. It's a higher profile. A quicker path to "greatness." It's just the reality of the business.

I hope I'm wrong. Kelly is great for the school, and great for the state. As a Buckeyes fan, it's awesome to see another school in Ohio be relevant.

However, Kelly would really have to be a different breed if he turned them down. Most coaches are going to take the money, and the prestige of the university, and run.

dougdirt
11-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Notre Dame, book it. My only regret will be that he will probably turn Notre Dame into a national power again....

Unless Notre Dame changes its admissions they will never be a power house again. They can't recruit with other Top 15 teams because well, to be honest, they can't let in the same kids. Notre Dame has a very high academic standard for sports too and well, they just aren't able to recruit at the same level as places who take chances on certain types of kids (troubled kids who are great talents will get into Florida/USC but not Notre Dame).

Because of that, I have to wonder why any coach would take that job. It is much easier to build a dynasty at a school even like Cincinnati where you can get better players. Money is money I guess, but how much money do you have 5 years from now when you get fired and can't get a top level job again? What about if you stayed at Cincinnati and win 10 games a year and get 6 BE titles? How does the money compare over that 10 year stretch compared to 5 at ND and then 5 at Iowa State?

NJReds
11-27-2009, 10:18 PM
Meyer isn't leaving Florida, that is nothing but wishful thinking by Notre Dame fans.

He already turned the job down once because ND wouldn't give him control over admissions standards for his recruits ... or so the story goes.

Weis will be out no matter what happens at Stamford. I think Kelly will be the ND coach.

SunDeck
11-27-2009, 10:24 PM
Notre Dame will shock the football world by hiring Doug Ramsey. Wait, they tried that once...then again, they've shown so little ability to learn from their mistakes than I wouldn't put it past them.

I'd be bummed if Kelly left UC, but as a kid who grew up going to Elder games on Fridays and rooting for the Irish on Saturdays, I still have enough affection for the program to hope they get this one right.

dougdirt
11-27-2009, 10:25 PM
I know that I am hoping that Brian Billick is interested in the job. Billick is a bigger name than Kelly is. I hope its a match.

GIDP
11-27-2009, 10:34 PM
If he goes to ND its solely for the money.

LoganBuck
11-28-2009, 01:28 AM
Unless Notre Dame changes its admissions they will never be a power house again. They can't recruit with other Top 15 teams because well, to be honest, they can't let in the same kids. Notre Dame has a very high academic standard for sports too and well, they just aren't able to recruit at the same level as places who take chances on certain types of kids (troubled kids who are great talents will get into Florida/USC but not Notre Dame).

Because of that, I have to wonder why any coach would take that job. It is much easier to build a dynasty at a school even like Cincinnati where you can get better players. Money is money I guess, but how much money do you have 5 years from now when you get fired and can't get a top level job again? What about if you stayed at Cincinnati and win 10 games a year and get 6 BE titles? How does the money compare over that 10 year stretch compared to 5 at ND and then 5 at Iowa State?

Charlie Weis' salary plus bonuses, endorsements, and incentives approaches $4.2 Million. Brian Kelly sits around $1.4 Million. If Kelly got similar money he would get around $20Million from ND + ~$7 Million from Iowa State assuming your scenario, that he would not be able to succeed at ND. So $27 Million versus $1.4 Million/year + assumed raises, I don't see him making more than $17 Million that way. Ten Million dollars buys a bunch of Skyline Chilli.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-coaches-contracts-database.htm

dougdirt
11-28-2009, 02:55 AM
Charlie Weis' salary plus bonuses, endorsements, and incentives approaches $4.2 Million. Brian Kelly sits around $1.4 Million. If Kelly got similar money he would get around $20Million from ND + ~$7 Million from Iowa State assuming your scenario, that he would not be able to succeed at ND. So $27 Million versus $1.4 Million/year + assumed raises, I don't see him making more than $17 Million that way. Ten Million dollars buys a bunch of Skyline Chilli.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-coaches-contracts-database.htm

Kelly is about to be offered a whole lot of money by UC. I guess he is offered at least $2M+ a year.

GIDP
11-28-2009, 08:12 AM
Cincinnati has people in charge that appreciate sports now so I doubt they just low ball Kelly.

Puffy
11-28-2009, 11:20 AM
Unless Notre Dame changes its admissions they will never be a power house again. They can't recruit with other Top 15 teams because well, to be honest, they can't let in the same kids. Notre Dame has a very high academic standard for sports too and well, they just aren't able to recruit at the same level as places who take chances on certain types of kids (troubled kids who are great talents will get into Florida/USC but not Notre Dame).



That first paragraph is so wrong I am not sure where to start. I guess the easiest way is that Brian Kelly is winning 10 plus games a year with 3 star players. Cincinnati has 4 4-star players on the roster and he is 11-0 (and one of his four star players is a ND recruit who transferred to Cincy - Demetrius Jones).

Then lets just look at both the rivals and scout recruiting rankings from the last three years. ND has 3 top ten finishes in both services for these years and finished number 2 to Alabama in 2007. For this upcoming year they currently sit 8th with chances at number 1 recruit in nation (Seantrel Henderson, who is considering ND, Ohio State, USC and Minnesota), the number 3 recruit (LeMarcus Joyner, who in his own words was blown away by his official visit), Ego Ferguson, Kyle Prater, Anthony Barr. I could go on but with a new coaching staff coming in we don't know what is going to happen to this class - but it will be top 15 even if we whiff on hiring.

Charlie Weis has taken a horrible situation left to him by Willingham (who just refused to recruit towards the end - he sat back and let kids come to him for some unknown reason) and elevated the talent level at ND to Lou Holtz days. The reason we ND fans are ready to let Weis go is because these kids are not developing like kids should. Kelly is taking 2 and 3 stars and maximizing their abilities while Weis is taking 4 and 5 star kids and they are regressing.

But make no mistake about it - this is an attractive job right now. They have talent galore and any coach who looks knows this. They are a legit top 15 team next year even without Clausen (if they get someone who can coach them up cause the defense loses almost nobody).

Is it harder to recruit at ND than Florida or USC or Texas - yes. But its no harder than Michigan and nobody seems to ever knock Michigan like they do ND. You have to work harder but Weis showed it can be done and he's left the blueprint. If we get the homerun coach we will be back fast. ND has been down 15 years - big deal. Oklahoma had 5 of 6 losing seasons before Stoops. Ohio State was cooked during the end of Cooper's run. Texas wasn't Texas before Mack Brown was hired. Miami has been down for 6 years now and there are still fans who don't believe Shannon is the answer.

So we can recruit and if ND puts together a three year run (a real run, not the get handed a BCS bid like we got in Weis' second year) then everyone will be saying ND is elite again. Just like Tressel made Ohio State elite again.

Revering4Blue
11-28-2009, 12:22 PM
Our source close to the situation has confirmed Brian Billick is NOT a candidate and will NOT be a candidate. FootballCoachScoop sources have
confirmed that Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick's main target is Bob Stoop's to replace Head Coach Charlie Weis.

http://footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html

I may be in the minority, but I would not be at all surprised if Stoops accepts the ND job. The timing is right.

If not, I tend to believe that it will play out as Puffy suggested in a previous post. However, I place Tommy Tuberville above Gary Patterson on the prospective list. Just a hunch.

WVRed
11-28-2009, 12:39 PM
I picked Kelly to South Bend but I think Notre Dame needs a home run hire and that would be Bob Stoops. It's similar to Kentucky with John Calipari, Notre Dame needs a big name hire who has been around and is proven. That would be Stoops.

I think Kelly is gone regardless, whether it be to Oklahoma if Stoops departs, or another darkhorse such as Georgia. Richt is feeling a lot of heat right now.

traderumor
11-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Ohio State was cooked during the end of Cooper's run.They were 6-5 in 1999, 8-4 in 2001, including a lackluster loss to South Carolina in the bowl game which was the straw that broke the camel's back. Those were only two years removed from one of his best teams, the 1998 squad that won the Rose Bowl. He treaded on thin ice only because he could not beat Michigan, but the program was certainly not "cooked" during the end of Cooper's run. One .500 season under Tressel in year 1 and they were back on top thereafter.

Revering4Blue
11-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Notre Dame Coaching Options

The top candidates for college football's top job.

Pete Fiutak

Charlie Weis is about to be fired? No … it can’t be. What’s next, Dan Hawkins is going to get another year at Colorado? Adam Lambert is just flamboyant? What? Who could’ve seen this coming?

It hasn’t happened yet, but with Weis not being allowed to stay in California after the Stanford game to recruit, and with rumors from inside the program flying around, consider the end of the era to be a done deal even if the school will have to sit back and groove on $20 million in buyout dough.

The “schematic advantage” didn’t work out in South Bend with Weis unable to overcome the disaster in 2007 to build the program into a BCS contender. If he had gone 8-4 this year he might be staying put, and he would’ve been around for another year for sure with a 9-3 record, but to lose to Navy for the second time in three years, and because the program doesn’t appear to be all that close to playing for the national title, it's time to make a change.

It’ll be a stunner if the athletic director, Jack Swarbrick, and the Irish higher-ups make a move right away on a new head coach unless someone like a Brian Billick or a Jon Gruden turns out to be the “wow” guy to end the debate before it starts. However, there’s no reason not to wait six weeks or so and be able to talk to some of the big-time college coaches after they’re done with the bowl season.

Assuming that Weis really is done, there’s no shortage of who's who options to look at. Here are the six most viable dandidatess and the odds of possibly getting the gig.

6. Jon Gruden Odds: 150-to-1
The combination of don’t-ruffle-feathers, don’t-burn-bridges, play-it-safe, cliché-ridden analysis, along with a speaking tone stolen from Jack Burton in Big Trouble in Little China, appears to have been enough for ESPN to give Gruden an extension after just a half year of milquetoast work on Monday Night Football. He can go on living a sweet life dumbing down America even further as a broadcaster, but everyone knows he’s itching to get back into coaching as soon as humanly possible. While he wants to be back in the NFL, he’s widely thought to be the No. 5 man among the Big Five of coaching free agents (behind Bill Cowher, Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, and Tony Dungy), and after this year, there might not be a slew of jobs available at the price he’s command. Most of the bad teams in the suckfest known as the bottom third of the NFL are manned by coaches just getting started in the turnaround process.

While Gruden is an attractive name for Notre Dame to pitch woo to, and he has the potential to be a god of a college coach because of his youth and enthusiasm, this might not be the right fit for him. He doesn’t need a high profile job, he’s already hanging out in everyone’s living room for three hours every Monday night, and he certainly doesn’t need the money after Tampa Bay had to eat a portion of his contract. And Notre Dame doesn’t want to be seen as a stepping stone for an upwardly mobile guy like Gruden. If anything, Louisville, if and when that job comes open, might be the better stopgap for a few years before a trip back to the NFL.

5. Brian Billick Odds: 50-to-1
Because Weis wasn’t an insufferable enough blowhard, and because dealing with the program under his reign wasn’t enough of a challenge, Notre Dame might be looking to do the impossible and ramp up the arrogance level even more. Billick made a name for himself as a brilliant offensive mind at BYU, San Diego State, and Stanford before turning the Minnesota Vikings of the early-to-mid 1990s into a record-setting juggernaut. Of course, he’s mostly known for leading the 2000 Baltimore Ravens to a Super Bowl with, arguably, the greatest defense in NFL history, but that was a bit of an aberration as his teams were never able to catch lightning in a bottle again.

Billick is a big personality and a big name, but his abrasiveness will rub parts of the Gold and Blue Nation the wrong way from Day One, considering Weis and Ty Willingham weren’t exactly Mr. Warm and Captain Fuzzy and many will want a different type of coach. Do recruits care about Billick’s name or résumé? Probably not, and he’d have to prove right away that he can appeal to the top name, four-and-five-star prospects or this would go very, very badly, very, very quickly. However, he’s extremely bright and is reportedly flawless in interviews. If Notre Dame picks Billick and he turns out to be 1/10th as good as he thinks he is, it’ll be in the BCS every year.

4. Jim Harbaugh Odds: 40-to-1
Notre Dame fans want to beat USC again and Harbaugh has done it twice. While he has successfully poked the bear while turning around a Stanford program that cares about academics even more than Notre Dame does, there’s one problem … the dude is sort of, well, different.

There’s no question that he’s a brilliant football coach, especially for offenses. His teams at San Diego (the college version) were fantastic, his tutoring of quarterbacks has been phenomenal, and his arrogance and attitude have been a plus for teams in need of arrogance and attitude. But he’s not necessarily going to be a P.C. sort of figurehead who might fit in with the image Notre Dame wants to project. Remember, he was out of the running for the open Michigan job a few years ago before he was even a candidate after dogging the academic side of things under Lloyd Carr.

There’s also the Gruden-like issue of his career goals. In a heartbeat he might turn out to be the hottest NFL coaching prospect from the college ranks, especially after the success his brother, John Harbaugh, is having with the Baltimore Ravens. But Harbaugh says he loves coaching at Stanford and isn’t looking around, he can stay the head coach as long as he wants to, or at least through the extension that goes through 2014, and most importantly, he has a sweet $70,000 office bathroom. And yeah, he’s just wacky enough that he really might stick around.

3. Bob Stoops Odds: 25-to-1
It has been reported by the South Bend Tribune that Stoops is high on the Notre Dame wish list … two places behind a 78-degree November day in South Bend and Beyonce gift-wrapped under the Christmas tree. While Notre Dame might want Stoops, Stoops likely isn’t going anywhere for a long, long time. And why would he? This year was a total aberration and would’ve been far different had Sam Bradford and TE Jermaine Gresham not been the leaders on a long list of injured players. Oklahoma is less than a year removed from playing for the national title, and there’s no reason whatsoever to not think that there won’t be more trips to the BCS Championship in the near future after elite recruiting classes have stocked the shelves with great young talent.

Only the brainless and demented would dare to grumble about the 2009 season as anything more than a bump in the road for Stoops, however, there’s a school of thought that his time at Oklahoma might be growing a tad stale, at least for him. Only 49 and with no realistic prospects of going to the NFL, Notre Dame would be one of the only steps up he could make. The only other possible option at the collegiate level might someday be Iowa, his alma mater, but there’s no real reason for him to leave Norman any time soon.

2. Urban Meyer Odds: 10-to-1
Really, what do you expect him to say? He’s deep in the hunt for his third national title in four years and has the pressure of dealing with Alabama and the weight of expectations. When the options are between winning a national championship or a failure of a season, Meyer can be forgiven if he really can’t deal with the Notre Dame coaching talk right now. On top of everything else, he has had to deal with Tim Tebow’s brain, Brandon Spikes’ eye gouge, little production from his wide receivers, and Lane Kiffin. However, if Notre Dame is patient, it will get its chance to make its pitch.

After spurning the Irish the first time around after a low-ball offer, the game has changed for Meyer since 2004. Money wasn’t an object before for Notre Dame, but now it’s apparently more willing to spend the dough needed to get the guy it wants, and it’ll want a two, possibly three-time national champion. The former Notre Dame receivers coach from 1996 to 2000 would be the perfect fit, and the time might be right.

Meyer isn’t a fit for the pros and there’s no other college job other than Notre Dame that would be a step up, at least in prestige and exposure, from Florida, and he’s also coming off the end of an all-timer of a run that will be next to impossible to match. Alabama is only getting better, Tennessee will soon be fantastic under Kiffin, LSU isn’t going anywhere, Auburn and Arkansas are improving, and Georgia isn’t going to be a dud again any time soon. Basically, the SEC won’t be easy to roll through and Meyer’s Gators might have to do some rebuilding; does he really want to do that? Billy Donovan, the Florida basketball coach, had other offers and actually left for a few moments, but he stayed after winning two straight national titles and has had trouble finding any of his old magic. Could Meyer learn from that and leave while the situation is right? He’s the wild-card in the mix.

1. Brian Kelly Odds: 2-to-1
Of course he wants the job … and badly. You don’t play linebacker for Assumption College (a liberal arts, Roman Catholic private school in Massachusetts) without dreaming about what it would be like to run out of the tunnel wearing a gold helmet. If you thought the behind-the-scenes lobbying and politicking done in Washington over the health care bill was intense, that’s nothing compared to what’s going on here. Kelly, like Meyer, is pushing for the BCS, has a huge game coming up, and has national title dreams; he has to say all the right things at the moment and has to pretend he wants nothing to do with the Notre Dame job hunt. After starting out his post-college career in politics, he knows what he’s supposed to do and what he’s supposed to say to keep his name alive while not screwing up his team’s great season. But while he might seem like a great fit, he might not be the slam-dunk you’d think.

First of all, he might not be quite the big enough superstar to make the splash the Irish want to make. Kelly has had a ton of success at both Central Michigan and Cincinnati, but he’s still the hot coach of the moment while Stoops and Meyer are the hot coaches, period. And then there’s the debate over style. He brings the schematic advantage that Charlie Weis’s offense didn’t have (watch a Cincinnati game and notice how many times the quarterbacks are throwing to wide open targets), but it’s not like his teams have been brick walls on defense. They’re aggressive and they get into the backfield, but they’re not brick walls. Notre Dame already did the big-offense, questionable-defense thing, and it might not be fired up to try it again. There’s a risk by taking Kelly, but Notre Dame can get him far cheaper, like millions cheaper, than one of the other big coaching names, and it would be getting a coach on the ascension.

And there’s on final option … The Field Odds: 3-to-1.
The first time around, did you think Charlie Weis was going to turn out to be the head coach? Don’t let anyone tell you differently; Notre Dame is the coaching job in all of sports. It’s bigger than North Carolina basketball, it’s bigger than the New York Yankees, and it’s bigger than the Dallas Cowboys. The Weis coaching situation has held the sports world hostage for weeks now, and it’s going to be front page worldwide news once the situation is rectified. By the time Swarbrick goes through the process (and this will all be done very quietly and very secretly), it wouldn’t be a shock if Meyer, Stoops and Harbaugh really do want to stay put, Gruden and Billick are thinking more NFL than Notre Dame, and Kelly simply isn’t the man the program wants.

Skip Holtz? Chris Petersen? Gary Patterson? Everyone and anyone would listen to the offer. It’s going to be an interesting ride.


http://cfn.scout.com/2/923968.html

dougdirt
11-28-2009, 04:13 PM
That first paragraph is so wrong I am not sure where to start. I guess the easiest way is that Brian Kelly is winning 10 plus games a year with 3 star players. Cincinnati has 4 4-star players on the roster and he is 11-0 (and one of his four star players is a ND recruit who transferred to Cincy - Demetrius Jones).

Then lets just look at both the rivals and scout recruiting rankings from the last three years. ND has 3 top ten finishes in both services for these years and finished number 2 to Alabama in 2007. For this upcoming year they currently sit 8th with chances at number 1 recruit in nation (Seantrel Henderson, who is considering ND, Ohio State, USC and Minnesota), the number 3 recruit (LeMarcus Joyner, who in his own words was blown away by his official visit), Ego Ferguson, Kyle Prater, Anthony Barr. I could go on but with a new coaching staff coming in we don't know what is going to happen to this class - but it will be top 15 even if we whiff on hiring.

Recruiting class ranks don't always matter. Like you said, Demetrius Jones was a 4 star recruit. It seems that every year ND has a top end recruiting class. Sounds like someone just wants to sell lots of magazines and they know that ND has a huge following. When was the last time Notre Dame had the best athlete on the field against a good team?



But make no mistake about it - this is an attractive job right now. They have talent galore and any coach who looks knows this. They are a legit top 15 team next year even without Clausen (if they get someone who can coach them up cause the defense loses almost nobody).
Isn't that always the case.... until week 7 when they have 2 or 3 losses?



Is it harder to recruit at ND than Florida or USC or Texas - yes. But its no harder than Michigan and nobody seems to ever knock Michigan like they do ND. You have to work harder but Weis showed it can be done and he's left the blueprint. If we get the homerun coach we will be back fast. ND has been down 15 years - big deal. Oklahoma had 5 of 6 losing seasons before Stoops. Ohio State was cooked during the end of Cooper's run. Texas wasn't Texas before Mack Brown was hired. Miami has been down for 6 years now and there are still fans who don't believe Shannon is the answer.
15 years. Think about what you just said.



So we can recruit and if ND puts together a three year run (a real run, not the get handed a BCS bid like we got in Weis' second year) then everyone will be saying ND is elite again. Just like Tressel made Ohio State elite again.
Ohio State went 111-43-4 under Cooper. If Weis had that kind of winning percentage he would still be the coach at ND next year. Instead he is 35-26. There is a huge difference between Ohio State and John Cooper's years and Notre Dame and Charlie Weis since he got to South Bend. The two situations aren't close. Since Lou Holtz left ND is 96-67.

KronoRed
11-28-2009, 05:02 PM
I may be in the minority, but I would not be at all surprised if Stoops accepts the ND job. The timing is right.


The more I think about it the more it makes sense, time for a change for Oklahoma and Stoops.

traderumor
11-28-2009, 05:42 PM
Notre Dame is the coaching job in all of sports. It’s bigger than North Carolina basketball, it’s bigger than the New York Yankees, and it’s bigger than the Dallas Cowboys. The Weis coaching situation has held the sports world hostage for weeks now, and it’s going to be front page worldwide news once the situation is rectified.Oh, brother. What, kids? You want an example of hyperbole. Try this. Of course, it will not possibly be as big as the next Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich imprint, but then it will be BIG! :barf:

cincrazy
11-28-2009, 07:06 PM
That first paragraph is so wrong I am not sure where to start. I guess the easiest way is that Brian Kelly is winning 10 plus games a year with 3 star players. Cincinnati has 4 4-star players on the roster and he is 11-0 (and one of his four star players is a ND recruit who transferred to Cincy - Demetrius Jones).

Then lets just look at both the rivals and scout recruiting rankings from the last three years. ND has 3 top ten finishes in both services for these years and finished number 2 to Alabama in 2007. For this upcoming year they currently sit 8th with chances at number 1 recruit in nation (Seantrel Henderson, who is considering ND, Ohio State, USC and Minnesota), the number 3 recruit (LeMarcus Joyner, who in his own words was blown away by his official visit), Ego Ferguson, Kyle Prater, Anthony Barr. I could go on but with a new coaching staff coming in we don't know what is going to happen to this class - but it will be top 15 even if we whiff on hiring.

Charlie Weis has taken a horrible situation left to him by Willingham (who just refused to recruit towards the end - he sat back and let kids come to him for some unknown reason) and elevated the talent level at ND to Lou Holtz days. The reason we ND fans are ready to let Weis go is because these kids are not developing like kids should. Kelly is taking 2 and 3 stars and maximizing their abilities while Weis is taking 4 and 5 star kids and they are regressing.

But make no mistake about it - this is an attractive job right now. They have talent galore and any coach who looks knows this. They are a legit top 15 team next year even without Clausen (if they get someone who can coach them up cause the defense loses almost nobody).

Is it harder to recruit at ND than Florida or USC or Texas - yes. But its no harder than Michigan and nobody seems to ever knock Michigan like they do ND. You have to work harder but Weis showed it can be done and he's left the blueprint. If we get the homerun coach we will be back fast. ND has been down 15 years - big deal. Oklahoma had 5 of 6 losing seasons before Stoops. Ohio State was cooked during the end of Cooper's run. Texas wasn't Texas before Mack Brown was hired. Miami has been down for 6 years now and there are still fans who don't believe Shannon is the answer.

So we can recruit and if ND puts together a three year run (a real run, not the get handed a BCS bid like we got in Weis' second year) then everyone will be saying ND is elite again. Just like Tressel made Ohio State elite again.

I agree.... and I disagree.

I think ND can be an elite program again. And the point you made about Michigan is right on. They have very stringent academic requirements, and nobody ever talks about that, because it's not an issue. They still recruit elite players, and win.

However.... there is no way you have top 15 talent next season, especially without Clausen. The offense is talented, but much of that talent is probably leaving. And the defense.... right now, it's simply atrocious. I don't see much talent on the defense at all, whether the kids were highly recruited or not.

If the Domers get Stoops, they'll be back to an elite level before long. But it won't be next season.

Puffy
11-28-2009, 07:35 PM
I agree.... and I disagree.

I think ND can be an elite program again. And the point you made about Michigan is right on. They have very stringent academic requirements, and nobody ever talks about that, because it's not an issue. They still recruit elite players, and win.

However.... there is no way you have top 15 talent next season, especially without Clausen. The offense is talented, but much of that talent is probably leaving. And the defense.... right now, it's simply atrocious. I don't see much talent on the defense at all, whether the kids were highly recruited or not.

If the Domers get Stoops, they'll be back to an elite level before long. But it won't be next season.

I can see where you disagree. Its just they have talent. The problem with the defense is tackling. Their dline is getting better each week but the problem is the back seven cant tackle and I think that can be corrected.

But I respect your opinion and you may be right - I might have green colored glasses on!

paintmered
11-28-2009, 07:55 PM
Consume with salt: OU boards are reporting that ND officials traveled to Norman today.

Reds4Life
11-28-2009, 09:29 PM
Consume with salt: OU boards are reporting that ND officials traveled to Norman today.

OU is playing today. I seriously doubt that Stoops would meet with them about another job on a game day, during the season.

BearcatShane
11-29-2009, 12:33 AM
Stoops will meet with The Dame tomorrow...

George Foster
11-29-2009, 01:06 AM
It's just harder to win at ND because of the academics. You can't recruit the same kids because they either can't get in or if they do get in, they can't make the grade. Stoops better stay where he is. Kelly as well.

Kelly has a good thing going at Cincy, and he's crazy if he thinks he can do the samething at ND. Cincy will give him a big raise....stay in Cincy. The Big East is not as good as the SEC or the big 12 but all you need to do is have 1 or 2 BIG non-conference games to have your BCS numbers go up. If you can't beat a SEC team or a Pack 10 team non-conference, you can't cry about not having a chance at the National Title. You can't have a weak non-conference schedule in a conference that is 3rd or 4th ranked in the nation.

I give credit to Ohio State...they know if they win against USC or Texas and run the table in the Big 10, they are in the National Championship game. It's all BCS numbers.

Revering4Blue
11-29-2009, 12:28 PM
I’m Charlie Weis and I still want to be the head coach at Notre Dame. Sure, I can get canned and get paid a ton while my contract runs out, but I really do like the gig and I want to stay. Here’s my sales point.

Hasn’t it been fun?

Yeah, I want to get to the BCS and I want to win national titles, too, but NBC has to be loving the weekly drama, ABC would love to feature us every Saturday night if they could, and yeah, we’re 6-6, but no team in America has played a more exciting season. Ten games, ten games were decided by a touchdown or less, and we had the ball in our hands with a chance to either pull out the win or send it into overtime in all six of our losses.

So, basically, if we get a touchdown and Connecticut gets a field goal in the second overtime, and if Clausen connects on that late pass against USC, and if roughly two other big plays go our way, we’re 10-2 and in the BCS. I know you can’t do it this way and it would mean hitting the parlay, but we really and truly were six plays from playing for the national title. Six plays.

Keep me around for one more year. I’ll sell Clausen, Tate, and the rest of the gang that we can do magical things with a more experienced team, and if they jump, then Dayne Crist becomes a star, half the team wants him as the starting quarterback, anyway, Michael Floyd wins the Biletnikoff, and with our relatively easy schedule we do go to the BCS. And along the way I’ll offer this deal. For every loss I’ll give back $1 million to the school’s general scholarship fund. It’ll be unprecedented and it’ll be like that game show with the guy who’s afraid of germs. To help boost ratings I’ll act like a raging jerkweed, or more of one, to create a villain that everyone roots against but has to pay attention to. NBC will eat it up, Notre Dame football will never be bigger, and yeah, I really do believe I’ll probably have to give back no more than $2 million.

What’s that? You have to take this call? No problem. Tell him to congratulate Tebow for me.:D



http://cfn.scout.com/2/924239.html

SeeinRed
11-29-2009, 12:42 PM
I picked Kelly to South Bend but I think Notre Dame needs a home run hire and that would be Bob Stoops. It's similar to Kentucky with John Calipari, Notre Dame needs a big name hire who has been around and is proven. That would be Stoops.

I think Kelly is gone regardless, whether it be to Oklahoma if Stoops departs, or another darkhorse such as Georgia. Richt is feeling a lot of heat right now.


Kelly isn't just looking to jump ship and get money. There are a select group of jobs he would take. I don't see him just being gone unless he finds the right situation, which in some peoples minds is exactly where he is right now. He can build a program, recruit his heart out in and around Cincinnati to get a lot of the players he needs, and he has the school willing to bend over backwards to get him whatever he wants. He is definately sitting pretty at UC. I don't think Oklahoma or Georgia really offer him that kind of situation IMO.

jimbo
11-29-2009, 01:47 PM
Kelly isn't just looking to jump ship and get money. There are a select group of jobs he would take. I don't see him just being gone unless he finds the right situation, which in some peoples minds is exactly where he is right now.

Maybe, but a coach has to make his move when the time is right, and Kelly right now is a prime candidate for about every top opening in the country. A coach can't always count on continued success of his current team by thinking he'll wait it out another year or so. You never know when a mediocre season or two will come around and you lose your allure.

If Kelly is going to make a move, now is the time.

Caveat Emperor
11-30-2009, 01:59 AM
FootballCoachScoop.com reporting:



Cincinnati:
Sources tell us that University Officials have been working behind the scenes on a contract extension, one that could keep Kelly in Cincinnati for a long time. According to our source, you can expect an announcement soon.


This is also what's being reported on Rivals (via BearcatLair) -- though any details are on the pay side of the site.

Meanwhile, rumors are continuing to swirl that Bob Stoops has (via third party negotiations) the fundamentals of a deal in place w/ Notre Dame that would be ready for his signature by the end of the week. A couple of Notre Dame fansites have people, with track records of being on the inside of decisions made in Domerville, saying it's Stoops and the agreements are done.

Hang on tight, it's gonna get wild with the Irish here this week.

gonelong
11-30-2009, 02:29 AM
Kelly is using all his leverage by not saying he is interested or not in other jobs. This will force Cincy's hand in trying to extend him and offer him assurances on specifics for building the program. If he doesn't hear what he wants, he will have plenty of opportunity to move on. If he is interested in moving on, he'll have an offer in hand as backup, and to up the anty with whoever else is interested.

Kelly is playing this as well as he can. Good for him, hopefully Cincy can keep him around and it'll be good for Cincy.

GL

Matt700wlw
11-30-2009, 02:37 AM
Kelly is staying here.

No sources, no "inside stuff"

just what I think.

gonelong
11-30-2009, 02:45 AM
I have a hard time believing anybody has any idea where Kelly will be next year. I bet he is having some serious doubts himself. :p:

GL

LoganBuck
11-30-2009, 08:10 AM
Just another thought. If Notre Dame takes Stoops, does Oklahoma come after Kelly? They aren't going to hire some run of the mill guy.

I would just point out that Les Miles is not the coach of Michigan, so keep taking these rumors with a grain of salt.

paintmered
11-30-2009, 09:00 AM
Just another thought. If Notre Dame takes Stoops, does Oklahoma come after Kelly? They aren't going to hire some run of the mill guy.

I would just point out that Les Miles is not the coach of Michigan, so keep taking these rumors with a grain of salt.

I think they will go after Houston's coach who is an Oklahoma guy. I don't see Brian Kelly moving outside the midwest or northeast.

bucksfan2
11-30-2009, 09:58 AM
I think they will go after Houston's coach who is an Oklahoma guy. I don't see Brian Kelly moving outside the midwest or northeast.

If Stoops leaves I think Gary Patterson will be the next coach of OU. Kelly has good midwest recruiting ties but I don't think he has many southwest ties. It could make a huge difference, especially if a program has to bring in a top notch recruiting coordinator like UT had to do.

Redlegs212
11-30-2009, 10:04 AM
Cincinnati:
Sources tell us that University Officials have been working behind the scenes on a contract extension, one that could keep Kelly in Cincinnati for a long
time. According to our source, you can expect an announcement soon.

http://www.footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html

This is a very reliable source that other people have referred me to which has been reliable so far

OnBaseMachine
11-30-2009, 01:01 PM
I think they will go after Houston's coach who is an Oklahoma guy. I don't see Brian Kelly moving outside the midwest or northeast.

I agree. And that would be a great hire, IMO. Sumlin is an offensive genius.

texasdave
11-30-2009, 01:29 PM
I agree. And that would be a great hire, IMO. Sumlin is an offensive genius.

These days who isn't? Almost any score you check someone is throwing up 40 or 50 points like it was nothing.

LoganBuck
11-30-2009, 03:14 PM
Did I hear right on ESPN radio that Virginia has asked for permission to speak to Brian Kelly?

LoganBuck
11-30-2009, 03:22 PM
ESPNews ticker now reporting Charlie Weis is out, according to NY Daily News

BRM
11-30-2009, 03:27 PM
From ESPN.com.


Charlie Weis is out after five seasons as Notre Dame coach, the New York Daily News is reporting.

The newspaper cited a source close to the program for its report.

Notre Dame players have scheduled a mid-afternoon players meeting for Monday while awaiting official word on Weis. The meeting will include a vote on whether the players want to play in a bowl game after their 6-6 season. Athletic director Jack Swarbrick has said he will consider the players' wishes in deciding on a bowl trip.

Weis was not in his office early Monday, though there were no announcements about whether he will return for a sixth season. Swarbrick has said he will make that decision within the next few days.

I doubt the school would reject a bowl bid.

WMR
11-30-2009, 03:31 PM
Really hate to see Charlie go. ND games were excellent comedy this season.

traderumor
11-30-2009, 03:47 PM
There was a scrawl on the game last night of reports that Weis has already been contacted by 6 NFL teams to be their OC if he gets canned.

GIDP
11-30-2009, 04:14 PM
http://www.footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html

This is a very reliable source that other people have referred me to which has been reliable so far

These stories crack me up because "for a really long time" really only means until the next contract 2 years from now that would keep him here for a really long time. :laugh:

Sea Ray
11-30-2009, 04:22 PM
These stories crack me up because "for a really long time" really only means until the next contract 2 years from now that would keep him here for a really long time. :laugh:

Or even one year. Didn't they just extend him last year with assurances that they'd upgrade facilities?

GIDP
11-30-2009, 04:25 PM
Or even one year. Didn't they just extend him last year with assurances that they'd upgrade facilities?

Yea I'm pretty sure hes had more than 1 new contract since he got here.

Chip R
11-30-2009, 04:28 PM
There was a scrawl on the game last night of reports that Weis has already been contacted by 6 NFL teams to be their OC if he gets canned.


He's in demand! Maybe Notre Dame should re-think firing him and sign him to another extention. :D

KoryMac5
11-30-2009, 04:37 PM
The Chicago Tribune's ND beat writer reports this:

Notre Dame had a few coaches on its short list all in different tiers.

Tier 1 consisted of Urban Meyer and John Gruden. ND reached out to both and each coach turned the job down.

Tier 2 consisted of Bob Stoops and Brian Kelly. Stoops will be offered the job first and it is his job to turn down. Kelly will be offered the job if Stoops doesn't want it. This is why the Bearcats are readying an offer for Kelly to keep him with the team. Speculation is that ND has cooled on Kelly because of some rumors out there that exist from his Central Michigan days.

Dark Horse candidate: Butch Davis

The job to me looks like Stoops but stranger things have happened with ND. Weis definitely made out in this deal taking home an estimated 10-18 million dollars in severence. That's a lot of cake.

dougdirt
11-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Speculation is that ND has cooled on Kelly because of some rumors out there that exist from his Central Michigan days.


Interesting.... anyone know of these rumors?

WMR
11-30-2009, 04:47 PM
The Chicago Tribune's ND beat writer reports this:

Notre Dame had a few coaches on its short list all in different tiers.

Tier 1 consisted of Urban Meyer and John Gruden. ND reached out to both and each coach turned the job down.

Tier 2 consisted of Bob Stoops and Brian Kelly. Stoops will be offered the job first and it is his job to turn down. Kelly will be offered the job if Stoops doesn't want it. This is why the Bearcats are readying an offer for Kelly to keep him with the team. Speculation is that ND has cooled on Kelly because of some rumors out there that exist from his Central Michigan days.

Dark Horse candidate: Butch Davis

The job to me looks like Stoops but stranger things have happened with ND. Weis definitely made out in this deal taking home an estimated 10-18 million dollars in severence. That's a lot of cake.

The one thing Charlie doesn't need.

Caveat Emperor
11-30-2009, 04:51 PM
Interesting.... anyone know of these rumors?

There was a lot of stuff that was swirling around following the DeMarcus Graham murder while he was at CMU. There were some allegations that Kelly ordered his players to silence when the investigators began looking into the case (which I think were later proven to be false). There were also some comments that Kelly made about African American kids who grew up in the inner-city and the "culture of violence" that surrounds some of them. Got him into a little hot water with the University brass.

If you google "DeMarcus Graham Murder" you can find a lot of it still online.

Chip R
11-30-2009, 04:58 PM
Or even one year. Didn't they just extend him last year with assurances that they'd upgrade facilities?


So when is enough enough? Every year he's been here they have had to renegotiate a new deal for him because they are afraid he's going to leave. That's not to say he hasn't lived up to his part of the bargain. The football team is a powerhouse, Nippert is sold out, you really can't ask for anything more. But if it's not Notre Dame, it's going to be some other school and pretty soon, UC is going to run out of money and/or promises. To his credit, Kelly hasn't given any public ultimatums and the man is entitled to every dollar he can make but it just seems like he's going to use the threat of leaving to hold over their heads so he can get more money or stadium improvements or an indoor facility.

So when does UC tell him that they can't give him anything else? Or do they?

GIDP
11-30-2009, 05:04 PM
they will tell him no when they let him leave or when the offers quit coming.

Hoosier Red
11-30-2009, 05:13 PM
they will tell him no when they let him leave or when the offers quit coming.

I agree, it's not like Universities aren't part of this as well. I can't imagine any school's fan base being happy with a coach going 1-10 but the school saying, "nope we signed him to a 10 year contract so he gets 10 years. And when it comes time to hire his replacement, we won't contact any school where a coach is under contract."

Like Winston Churchill's famous analogy, we're just determining the price.

Reds4Life
11-30-2009, 05:21 PM
Stoops said today on a conference call he's going to be at OU next year, and he isn't going to interview for any jobs.

BRM
11-30-2009, 05:29 PM
Stoops said today on a conference call he's going to be at OU next year, and he isn't going to interview for any jobs.

If that's true then Brian Kelly it is.

Reds4Life
11-30-2009, 05:35 PM
If that's true then Brian Kelly it is.

Here ya go.

http://newsok.com/bob-stoops-im-going-to-be-at-oklahoma-next-year/article/3421502?custom_click=lead_story_title




NORMAN — Bob Stoops says he won't be leaving Oklahoma for Notre Dame.

"I'm going to be at Oklahoma next year," he said. "If (athletic director) Joe (Castiglione) will have me and President (David) Boren, that's what I intend to do."

Speaking to reporters Monday afternoon, Stoops dispelled numerous reports that he would be the next coach at Notre Dame, but declined to comment on the nature or existence of his contact with school officials at the school in South Bend, Ind.

"I will never confirm or deny whether I talk or not talk to anybody, and I won't be interviewing for any jobs," he said.

Notre Dame fired coach Charlie Weis on Monday, and Stoops had been rumored as a possible successor, as well as Cincinnati coach Brian Kelley, Gary Patterson of TCU and Floridas Urban Meyer.

Caveat Emperor
11-30-2009, 06:08 PM
If that's true then Brian Kelly it is.

I'd guess that's where the smart money says things will end up, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Irish target someone with a defensive background.

It's ironic -- for all Notre Dame's high standards when it comes to admissions for athletes and academic requirements for their players and their talk about "doing things the right way," they're just as slimey as everyone else when it comes to poaching off coaches who are under contract at other programs.

And, for that matter, it's pretty pathetic that the Big East will sit idly by and allow one of their best coaches to be bought off by a school that is allegedly part of the same conference in every sport but football. I'd boot them immediately for doing it.

Reds4Life
11-30-2009, 06:27 PM
I'd guess that's where the smart money says things will end up, but I wouldn't be shocked to see the Irish target someone with a defensive background.

It's ironic -- for all Notre Dame's high standards when it comes to admissions for athletes and academic requirements for their players and their talk about "doing things the right way," they're just as slimey as everyone else when it comes to poaching off coaches who are under contract at other programs.

And, for that matter, it's pretty pathetic that the Big East will sit idly by and allow one of their best coaches to be bought off by a school that is allegedly part of the same conference in every sport but football. I'd boot them immediately for doing it.

Says something about Kelly to. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, but he's sold the UC boosters and alum on the fact he was going to stay, it's a big reason why they donated money to build the practice fields. All his talk about UC being a destination job is going to be just that....talk. Who ever replaces him if he bails isn't going to have an easy time raising money for more facilities, I have a feeling they aren't going to buy the same line twice.

I hope he realizes if he goes to Notre Dame, and doesn't win big, and fast, he's out the door. Just like the last 3 coaches there. If he gets canned there, he's liable to end up back in a mid-major conference.

Sea Ray
11-30-2009, 06:33 PM
Says something about Kelly to. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, but he's sold the UC boosters and alum on the fact he was going to stay, it's a big reason why they donated money to build the practice fields. All his talk about UC being a destination job is going to be just that....talk. Who ever replaces him if he bails isn't going to have an easy time raising money for more facilities, I have a feeling they aren't going to buy the same line twice.

I hope he realizes if he goes to Notre Dame, and doesn't win big, and fast, he's out the door. Just like the last 3 coaches there. If he gets canned there, he's liable to end up back in a mid-major conference.


Hopefully he has a decent buyout in his contract with UC and that'll go a long way towards paying off those practice facility debts.

I think Kelly ought to hire the same agent that got Weis his deal with ND. Who's ever heard of a $20mill buyout?

Chip R
11-30-2009, 07:12 PM
Says something about Kelly to. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, but he's sold the UC boosters and alum on the fact he was going to stay, it's a big reason why they donated money to build the practice fields. All his talk about UC being a destination job is going to be just that....talk. Who ever replaces him if he bails isn't going to have an easy time raising money for more facilities, I have a feeling they aren't going to buy the same line twice.


I understand what you're thinking. Think of it like this. Even if he does leave, if they still go through with the stadium expansion and the indoor facility, they are still better off than they were before he came. None of that probably would have happened if Kelly wasn't hired. It's going to help in recruiting players and the next coach and future coaches. If they go after the next hot-shot assistant - or even someone's head coach - it's going to look a lot better to a candidate than if they didn't have that indoor facility and still had 30K seats. It shows that the administration is making a commitment to the program.

Razor Shines
11-30-2009, 07:14 PM
There was a scrawl on the game last night of reports that Weis has already been contacted by 6 NFL teams to be their OC if he gets canned.

If I was a Bengals fan or if the Colts didn't have Tom Moore, I'd want him for NFL OC.

Hoosier Red
11-30-2009, 07:34 PM
It's ironic -- for all Notre Dame's high standards when it comes to admissions for athletes and academic requirements for their players and their talk about "doing things the right way," they're just as slimey as everyone else when it comes to poaching off coaches who are under contract at other programs.


I don't understand what's slimy about this. They ask for permission from the school before contacting the coach I imagine. UC is smart enough not to deny permission because they'll need permission from some school to make a hiring in football, basketball or some other sport some day.


Says something about Kelly to. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, but he's sold the UC boosters and alum on the fact he was going to stay, it's a big reason why they donated money to build the practice fields. All his talk about UC being a destination job is going to be just that....talk. Who ever replaces him if he bails isn't going to have an easy time raising money for more facilities, I have a feeling they aren't going to buy the same line twice.

It's not like he's taking the practice bubble with him. I don't understand how anyone could begrudge a coach who has elevated the program to the level Brian Kelly has. All of these improvements will help lure in a better coach and give that coach the tools to keep this program at the top of the big east.

paintmered
11-30-2009, 07:35 PM
I understand what you're thinking. Think of it like this. Even if he does leave, if they still go through with the stadium expansion and the indoor facility, they are still better off than they were before he came. None of that probably would have happened if Kelly wasn't hired. It's going to help in recruiting players and the next coach and future coaches. If they go after the next hot-shot assistant - or even someone's head coach - it's going to look a lot better to a candidate than if they didn't have that indoor facility and still had 30K seats. It shows that the administration is making a commitment to the program.

Cincy is potentially in a similar situation to where Louisville was when Petrino left. At that time, Louisville had already decided to expand Papa Johns stadium (nearing completion now). They just whiffed on their head coaching selection in Kragthorpe. If Louisville makes a solid hire this time around, they're back in the game in two years and have an expanded stadium. It would be much more difficult for them if they didn't have that stadium completed.

If anything, schools must make good decisions when hiring a coach. There's no substitute for having a good coach and a good coach can make up for lack of facilities. What facilities do is reduce the time-line between irrelevancy and contender significantly. It's why Louisville will land on their feet and it's why UC must hit another home run if Kelly leaves. While an awesome place to watch a game, Nippert is a detriment to the program until it is expanded and upgraded. Step one is to get the practice facilities built (which will benefit more than the football team). But for Nippert, the plans to expand and upgrade must move forward no matter what happens with Kelly. UC throws it all away (including the increased enrollment partially due to the increased sports exposure) if they don't.

As an aside, are there any other D-1 schools out there that use their varsity football field for intramural sports?

KoryMac5
11-30-2009, 07:42 PM
Hopefully he has a decent buyout in his contract with UC and that'll go a long way towards paying off those practice facility debts.

I think Kelly ought to hire the same agent that got Weis his deal with ND. Who's ever heard of a $20mill buyout?

It wasn't quite a 20 million dollar buyout but the rumors I heard put it anywhere between 10-18 million dollars. The buyout is a little easier to swallow for a school like ND which has some alumni with deep pockets. However in order to get the boosters on board with firing Weis (putting up the cash) the AD had to promise them the next coach would be a sure home run.

I just don't think the boosters will be happy shelling out millions for Weis and have to end up settling for Kelly or Butch Davis. I would imagine they will sweeten the pot for Stoops no matter what the Oklahoma coach says.

Chip R
11-30-2009, 07:46 PM
It wasn't quite a 20 million dollar buyout but the rumors I heard put it anywhere between 10-18 million dollars. The buyout is a little easier to swallow for a school like ND which has some alumni with deep pockets. However in order to get the boosters on board with firing Weis (putting up the cash) the AD had to promise them the next coach would be a sure home run.

I just don't think the boosters will be happy shelling out millions for Weis and have to end up settling for Kelly or Butch Davis. I would imagine they will sweeten the pot for Stoops no matter what the Oklahoma coach says.

I tell you, if I were a ND alum and they kept firing football coaches and giving them huge buyouts while giving huge bucks to these new coaches who are failures I wouldn't be giving too much of my money to them in the future.

KoryMac5
11-30-2009, 07:57 PM
I tell you, if I were a ND alum and they kept firing football coaches and giving them huge buyouts while giving huge bucks to these new coaches who are failures I wouldn't be giving too much of my money to them in the future.

I agree Chip that's why this coach will make or break ND's football future. If they swing and miss on this coach no way the AD will be able to go out and get another in 4-5 yrs.

paintmered
11-30-2009, 08:18 PM
One thing is for sure, we won't hear anything about Brian Kelly, if he takes the job, until after the Pitt game.

Reds4Life
11-30-2009, 08:20 PM
One thing is for sure, we won't hear anything about Brian Kelly, if he takes the job, until after the Pitt game.

If he accepts the ND job before the bowl game, and I'm Mike Thomas, there is no chance in hell I let him coach in that game.

KoryMac5
11-30-2009, 10:01 PM
I find it odd that Stoops has issued a statement rather quickly while Kelly has been pretty quiet about the issue.

Tony Cloninger
12-01-2009, 01:46 AM
Are a lot of you ND fans? Beacuse there seems to be an awful lot of wishful thinking that he goes there.

Is ND even that relevant as a football power anymore? You have carte blanche to probably do whatever it takes to keep this Cincy program moving up and so then you want to go and coach for a team that has their top 2 players on offense already leaving after this year?

And if i am wrong and just do not understand why he would leave this quickly...I think it is sad that he would not wait until after the biggest Bowl Game this school has played in.....to make that decision or announcement.

I am annoyed at ND arrogance for thinking they can just snap their fingers and get anyone ...even before the season is over and they have a possible national title to play for.

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2009, 02:18 AM
Cincy is potentially in a similar situation to where Louisville was when Petrino left. At that time, Louisville had already decided to expand Papa Johns stadium (nearing completion now). They just whiffed on their head coaching selection in Kragthorpe. If Louisville makes a solid hire this time around, they're back in the game in two years and have an expanded stadium. It would be much more difficult for them if they didn't have that stadium completed.

Cincinnati doesn't have an expanded stadium. They just struggled through $12m worth of fundraising for a practice facility, and that was during the highest of high points for the program. There's no way they shake money loose for an expanded Nippert if Kelly leaves (considering their best "pitch" to alums for the practice facility was "Help keep Brian Kelly in Clifton.") It's eerily reminiscent of the basketball program -- you heard tons of talk about an expanded or improved Shoe while Huggins was around, and things got real quiet once Cronin's teams started to immediately stink.

Cincinnati is also a very different media market and city than Louisville. People have other things to pay attention to in Cincinnati. The team holds their attention right now (amazingly, considering that the Bengals are having their best season of the decade), but a few Kragthorpe-type years and I really don't have a lout of doubt that things would be back to the same in Clifton: attendance in the low-20s and no play for the team in the local media.

A whiff on the hire, and Cincinnati football gets set back decades, not years.

SeeinRed
12-01-2009, 08:34 AM
I find it odd that Stoops has issued a statement rather quickly while Kelly has been pretty quiet about the issue.

Why would Kelly say anything? He has a lot of leverage on UC that he would risk losing if he did. If he doesn't go anywhere else, he is going to get a big raise from UC for him and his coaches. He isn't in the same situation as Meyer or Stoops.

KoryMac5
12-01-2009, 08:50 AM
Why would Kelly say anything? He has a lot of leverage on UC that he would risk losing if he did. If he doesn't go anywhere else, he is going to get a big raise from UC for him and his coaches. He isn't in the same situation as Meyer or Stoops.

If he was staying I would imagine he would have already spoken up by now. Rumors have it that the Bearcats are readying a new contract as we speak for him so no need for leverage. Why not release a statement like Meyer and Stoops before this whole thing becomes a distraction to your team before they play some big time college games.

SunDeck
12-01-2009, 09:54 AM
If he was staying I would imagine he would have already spoken up by now. Rumors have it that the Bearcats are readying a new contract as we speak for him so no need for leverage. Why not release a statement like Meyer and Stoops before this whole thing becomes a distraction to your team before they play some big time college games.

If he wants to stay at UC and build it as a destination program, it is in his interest to use the ND situation to squeeze every last promise and every last dollar out of UC. Speaking now would take the ball out of his court.

SeeinRed
12-01-2009, 10:55 AM
Why not release a statement like Meyer and Stoops before this whole thing becomes a distraction to your team before they play some big time college games.


If UC was paying Kelly similar money and had the facilities around it like UF or OU had then it would be a different story. That is what Kelly is angling for. He gains nothing by saying he will be here next year at this point in time.

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 11:30 AM
Are a lot of you ND fans? Beacuse there seems to be an awful lot of wishful thinking that he goes there.

Is ND even that relevant as a football power anymore? You have carte blanche to probably do whatever it takes to keep this Cincy program moving up and so then you want to go and coach for a team that has their top 2 players on offense already leaving after this year?

And if i am wrong and just do not understand why he would leave this quickly...I think it is sad that he would not wait until after the biggest Bowl Game this school has played in.....to make that decision or announcement.

I am annoyed at ND arrogance for thinking they can just snap their fingers and get anyone ...even before the season is over and they have a possible national title to play for.


Unfortunately it's the way the game works. It's not Notre Dame's arrogance rather its every school which has a coaching opening's arrogance.

Tony Cloninger
12-01-2009, 11:33 AM
Agreed. All big schools have this arrogance. Say NO to arrogance Brian! :D

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 11:39 AM
Agreed. All big schools have this arrogance. Say NO to arrogance Brian! :D

Of course so did UC when it came time to hire BK.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 11:48 AM
Of course so did UC when it came time to hire BK.

Yup. Central Michigan was trying to enjoy its first MAC championship and bowl berth in a long time when Cincinnati pried Kelly away. I'm going to be sorely disappointed if Kelly leaves, but it's the nature of the business. All I can do at this point is hope that Kelly stays. If he doesn't, then I have to hope that Mike Thomas makes another great hire.

Tony Cloninger
12-01-2009, 11:54 AM
I did not know that.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 12:51 PM
Not that it matters much, but does anyone remember UC going through this with Huggins every year as he resurrected the basketball program? I remember occasional rumors about WV being a potential destination, but I just don't remember this fight every season to fend off other programs. Is it because of the bad image associated with him? Was the struggle there and I just don't remember it?

Reds4Life
12-01-2009, 12:57 PM
Not that it matters much, but does anyone remember UC going through this with Huggins every year as he resurrected the basketball program? I remember occasional rumors about WV being a potential destination, but I just don't remember this fight every season to fend off other programs. Is it because of the bad image associated with him? Was the struggle there and I just don't remember it?

Bob had offers from other schools, as well as the NBA. After he turned several of them down people don't make a big deal out of it anymore because it was assumed for the most part he wasn't interested in leaving. He also didn't go out and actively seek other jobs.

He also had a lot of ties here. His parents lived here, his wifes parents were from the area, and his kids had been here for all of (or 95%) of their life.

Chip R
12-01-2009, 01:02 PM
Not that it matters much, but does anyone remember UC going through this with Huggins every year as he resurrected the basketball program? I remember occasional rumors about WV being a potential destination, but I just don't remember this fight every season to fend off other programs. Is it because of the bad image associated with him? Was the struggle there and I just don't remember it?


I don't know if there's ever been this kind of interest - for lack of a better word - like this about a coach every season. Huggins had interest from Denver in the NBA and WVU in the late 90s early 00s but it wasn't every season and UC wasn't throwing more money after him at the end of each season.

jmcclain19
12-01-2009, 01:13 PM
ND's academic standards are blown wildly out of proportion.

Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech & Stanford all have just as stringent admission requirements and outside of Duke, have had similiar success in recent years.

ND is saddled with a fanbase who's yet to come to grips with it's current status in College Football. The Irish are the 45 year old at the college bar, trying to relive the glory days. Desperately tryin getting the attention of the 22 yr old co eds who mostly roll their eyes and turn their attention to guys half their age.

ND's arrogance that they'll just throw a truckload of money at whoever they want will bite them in the face for the 3rd straight coaching search. They'll end up with the 4th or 5th choice - a ladder climber who has no idea of the death trap that is the ND job and in 4-5 years we'll be back here having this same discussion.

Chip R
12-01-2009, 01:43 PM
ND's academic standards are blown wildly out of proportion.

Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech & Stanford all have just as stringent admission requirements and outside of Duke, have had similiar success in recent years.

ND is saddled with a fanbase who's yet to come to grips with it's current status in College Football. The Irish are the 45 year old at the college bar, trying to relive the glory days. Desperately tryin getting the attention of the 22 yr old co eds who mostly roll their eyes and turn their attention to guys half their age.

ND's arrogance that they'll just throw a truckload of money at whoever they want will bite them in the face for the 3rd straight coaching search. They'll end up with the 4th or 5th choice - a ladder climber who has no idea of the death trap that is the ND job and in 4-5 years we'll be back here having this same discussion.


Interesting analogy. I'd go a little further and say that they are the 45 year old at the college bar but he has a Lamborghini and a big bankroll. They at least have a chance. ND is on national TV every week. No other school can make that claim. They also have that special deal where if they rank in the top 8 or so, they are guaranteed a BCS spot. They have prestige and tradition and people's knees still get week when they hear someone talk about Notre Dame. There's been a feeding frenzy over Weis' status ever since the season began. Now you have the same thing over who will be his replacement. You have columnists saying that you can't win there and others saying they can with the right coach. That job gets more attention than any other job in sports. Maybe it won't be like that in 20 years. This current crop of coaches have grown up thinking Notre Dame is the beau ideal of football programs and they dreamed of playing there. Because of the lack of success over the past decade, the future crop of coaches may not hold Notre Dame in such esteem.

One thing you have to remember is that all coaches have egos. Some are larger than others but they all have them. You have to think a guy like Kelly might be thinking that he will be the one to turn their fortunes around. Is it going to be hard? Sure, but they know that and that's part of the challenge.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 01:45 PM
I don't know if there's ever been this kind of interest - for lack of a better word - like this about a coach every season. Huggins had interest from Denver in the NBA and WVU in the late 90s early 00s but it wasn't every season and UC wasn't throwing more money after him at the end of each season.

I can't believe I forgot about the Nuggets rumors. I can't remember this type of interest either. I wonder if they'll ever get past that.

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 01:56 PM
I can't believe I forgot about the Nuggets rumors. I can't remember this type of interest either. I wonder if they'll ever get past that.

There was also interest from the Heat I think.

GIDP
12-01-2009, 01:57 PM
Clippers went after him once

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 01:59 PM
ND's academic standards are blown wildly out of proportion.

Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech & Stanford all have just as stringent admission requirements and outside of Duke, have had similiar success in recent years.



I agree, I also think the fan base expectations are blown out of proportion. If a coach came in and went 9-3 and beat all the teams Notre Dame "should" beat(Navy, UConn, Syracuse, Navy,) ND would at least be on the fringe of the BCS and would definately be going to a good bowl game. Notre Dame may be a step or 7 away from being able to beat USC, but they can easily go 10-2 most years even with their oh so stringent academic requirements. If Notre Dame was 10-2, they'd be in the top 20 every year and I doubt you'd hear too much griping.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 02:13 PM
I agree, I also think the fan base expectations are blown out of proportion. If a coach came in and went 9-3 and beat all the teams Notre Dame "should" beat(Navy, UConn, Syracuse, Navy,) ND would at least be on the fringe of the BCS and would definately be going to a good bowl game. Notre Dame may be a step or 7 away from being able to beat USC, but they can easily go 10-2 most years even with their oh so stringent academic requirements. If Notre Dame was 10-2, they'd be in the top 20 every year and I doubt you'd hear too much griping.

9-3 got Weiss a BCS bowl and a 10 year extension. If the coach they find is able to do that year to year, they'll be golden.

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2009, 02:19 PM
9-3 got Weiss a BCS bowl and a 10 year extension. If the coach they find is able to do that year to year, they'll be golden.

It's tough, with the schedule they play. Weis had the fortune of being around for some of the worst Michigan teams and worst Purdue teams in recent memory and still struggled to win.

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2009, 02:24 PM
Update from Adam Schefter's twitter:

More Notre Dame chatter (why am I doing this?) Tony Dungy not interested, ND not interested in Brian Kelly, hire will have defensive resume.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 02:50 PM
Update from Adam Schefter's twitter:

More Notre Dame chatter (why am I doing this?) Tony Dungy not interested, ND not interested in Brian Kelly, hire will have defensive resume.

Fingers crossed. It's awfully nice having a relevant college football team in town.

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 02:50 PM
It's tough, with the schedule they play. Weis had the fortune of being around for some of the worst Michigan teams and worst Purdue teams in recent memory and still struggled to win.

The schedule is also continuously held up and its full of holes.
Purdue more often than not is a middle of the pack B11 team, same with Michigan State.
Michigan's usually good.
USC's usually good.
They played Washington, Washington State, and Stanford(hardly world beaters any of them)
They played UConn and Pitt.
They played Nevada
They played freaking Navy(and many years have two games against service academies.)

Quite honestly, if you can't win 8 games against that schedule with the resources at ND's disposal, you don't deserve to be a big time coach.

Reds4Life
12-01-2009, 02:57 PM
Looks like it's shaping up to be another classic Notre Dame debacle.

Based on the reports so far they've already been turned down by:

Urban Meyer
Bob Stoops
Jon Gruden
Tony Dungy

Those are just the ones we know about. Ya think they are setting their sights a little high after doing nothing for the past 15 years? Suprised they didn't add Nick Saban to the list, might as well call him to. While they are at it, can dig up Bear Bryant, see if he's interested.

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2009, 03:01 PM
Those are just the ones we know about. Ya think they are setting their sights a little high after doing nothing for the past 15 years? Suprised they didn't add Nick Saban to the list, might as well call him to. While they are at it, can dig up Bear Bryant, see if he's interested.

They're targeting the wrong guys. Going after Bob Stoops is well and all, but they should be looking for Bob Stoops c1998 when he was a DC at Florida. Go get the next big thing instead of asking the current big things to pick up and come to you.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 03:12 PM
Who knows how reliable this information is, but it's encouraging:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2009/12/01/kelly-i-have-not-been-contacted-by-nd/


Brian Kelly told me after his press conference today that he has not been contacted by Notre Dame and that he has begun preliminary discussion with UC about a new contract.

“I have not had contact (with Notre Dame),” Kelly said. “Even if they were reaching out to me, I’m finishing out the season just like I have every year. We’re going to focus on Pittsburgh this week. After the Pittsburgh game, we can talk about other things.”

The discussions with UC athletic director Mike Thomas, he said, are nothing out of the ordinary.

“Mike Thomas and I have always agreed that we would do that after the season,” Kelly said. “Sit down and talk in full. I think every year you’re up for renewal. Every year you’re going to look at your contract so I expect that would take place next week as well. We’ve always waited until the end of the season. We did that last year. We’ll do that this year. We haven’t changed the way we’re operating.”

Kelly actually got a little testy today at the press conference when he got peppered with questions about Notre Dame and how the rumors might affect his players as they prepared for the showdown at Pitt on Saturday. Kelly didn’t actually lash out at anyone – that’s not his style – but he did raise his voice to reporters and I have never heard him do that before. But his message was clear: He won’t talk about Notre
Dame until the Pitt game is over.

dabvu2498
12-01-2009, 03:21 PM
Looks like it's shaping up to be another classic Notre Dame debacle.

Based on the reports so far they've already been turned down by:

Urban Meyer
Bob Stoops
Jon Gruden
Tony Dungy

Those are just the ones we know about. Ya think they are setting their sights a little high after doing nothing for the past 15 years? Suprised they didn't add Nick Saban to the list, might as well call him to. While they are at it, can dig up Bear Bryant, see if he's interested.


Bobby Petrino would take it. You know that.

KoryMac5
12-01-2009, 03:29 PM
With Kelly coming out today and acknowledging the talks for an extension and also acknowledging that ND has not contacted him. Why not issue a statement yesterday when rumors started to swirl. Sounds to me like Kelly had an interest in the ND job but ND did not reciprocate the love back.

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 03:34 PM
Or ND knows its fruitless to talk to a coach who by the way has his team playing for a Big East title this week.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 03:42 PM
With Kelly coming out today and acknowledging the talks for an extension and also acknowledging that ND has not contacted him. Why not issue a statement yesterday when rumors started to swirl. Sounds to me like Kelly had an interest in the ND job but ND did not reciprocate the love back.

Well, he hasn't issued a definitive statement, but even that has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. The list of coaches that say they're staying and eventually don't is a mile long. It includes UC's most recent football coach. If anything, I respect him for not saying anything at this point if he is thinking about leaving. As much as we'd like honesty and candor in all of this, it's not going to happen. Kelly is a master at this. He's not tipping his hand. We won't know for sure until the next ND coach is announced.

That being said, I don't blame him a bit for the way he's handled the situation. I can't blame him for using all of this to his advantage. What he's done here is nothing short of amazing and he should get what he can out of it. For as good as Dantonio was, the best he could manage was 2nd in CUSA and 4th in the Big East. That got him a coaching job at a respectable Big 10 school. Given Kelly's far superior track record here, I can't blame him for seeing what he can get, whether it's here or elsewhere.

Sea Ray
12-01-2009, 03:45 PM
I agree, I also think the fan base expectations are blown out of proportion. If a coach came in and went 9-3 and beat all the teams Notre Dame "should" beat(Navy, UConn, Syracuse, Navy,) ND would at least be on the fringe of the BCS and would definately be going to a good bowl game. Notre Dame may be a step or 7 away from being able to beat USC, but they can easily go 10-2 most years even with their oh so stringent academic requirements. If Notre Dame was 10-2, they'd be in the top 20 every year and I doubt you'd hear too much griping.

I agree that turning around ND is not that tough. The cupboard is not bare, although it was when Willingham left.

All they need is a defense. If I was ND and on the hook for $18mill, I'd have fired the D-coordinator and kept Charlie.

This also makes sense in why they're looking for a guy with a defensive resume. The offense was very productive this year.

I'm glad they think Brian Kelly is all about offense but I don't think that's true. He cares a lot about defense. Last year UC had a very underrated defense. Kelly even changed D coordinators because he had a vision for the D. I think the D is a little short of athletes this year but I think Kelly has a handle on the situation

Mario-Rijo
12-01-2009, 03:51 PM
Well, he hasn't issued a definitive statement, but even that has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. The list of coaches that say they're staying and eventually don't is a mile long. It includes UC's most recent football coach. If anything, I respect him for not saying anything at this point if he is thinking about leaving. As much as we'd like honesty and candor in all of this, it's not going to happen. Kelly is a master at this. He's not tipping his hand. We won't know for sure until the next ND coach is announced.

That being said, I don't blame him a bit for the way he's handled the situation. I can't blame him for using all of this to his advantage. What he's done here is nothing short of amazing and he should get what he can out of it. For as good as Dantonio was, the best he could manage was 2nd in CUSA and 4th in the Big East. That got him a coaching job at a respectable Big 10 school. Given Kelly's far superior track record here, I can't blame him for seeing what he can get, whether it's here or elsewhere.

I'm no expert on UC but I'd much rather follow Dantonio than what Dantonio followed. The cupboard wasn't bare but it sure wasn't flowing over with eventual high draft picks like when he left. I think had Dantonio stayed he'd have had similiar success that Kelly has.

Mario-Rijo
12-01-2009, 03:58 PM
I agree that turning around ND is not that tough. The cupboard is not bare, although it was when Willingham left.

All they need is a defense. If I was ND and on the hook for $18mill, I'd have fired the D-coordinator and kept Charlie.

This also makes sense in why they're looking for a guy with a defensive resume. The offense was very productive this year.

I'm glad they think Brian Kelly is all about offense but I don't think that's true. He cares a lot about defense. Last year UC had a very underrated defense. Kelly even changed D coordinators because he had a vision for the D. I think the D is a little short of athletes this year but I think Kelly has a handle on the situation

Really? I thought Willinghams players included Quinn, Samardzja, Walker, Fasano, Zbikowski, Ndukwe etc. not really bare at all in fact probably a bit better team than what Weis is leaving. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought those were Willingham recruited players. In fact Weis hasn't really won a thing since Willinghams players left.

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2009, 04:05 PM
I think had Dantonio stayed he'd have had similiar success that Kelly has.

I don't. It's hard to recurit the kind of players Dantonio needed / wanted to be successful with his system. Kelly's spread-offense is much more "plug-n-play" -- which is why so many small schools used it before the big boys started catching on.

UC lacks the players, especially up front, to be a power-running or pro-style offense.

Chip R
12-01-2009, 04:12 PM
Kelly may not have had any contact from ND but I bet his agent has or an alum/booster has been in touch with him.

wolfboy
12-01-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm no expert on UC but I'd much rather follow Dantonio than what Dantonio followed. The cupboard wasn't bare but it sure wasn't flowing over with eventual high draft picks like when he left. I think had Dantonio stayed he'd have had similiar success that Kelly has.

I agree that Kelly walked into a much better situation than Dantonio. That being said, I don't think there's any chance that Dantonio would have won two consecutive Big East titles. Of course, that's all speculation on my part. There's no way to know. I offered the contrast between Dantonio and Kelly only to show that Kelly is in line for a very big payday whether it is at UC or somewhere else.

Sea Ray
12-01-2009, 05:01 PM
Really? I thought Willinghams players included Quinn, Samardzja, Walker, Fasano, Zbikowski, Ndukwe etc. not really bare at all in fact probably a bit better team than what Weis is leaving. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought those were Willingham recruited players. In fact Weis hasn't really won a thing since Willinghams players left.

Brady Quinn's class was a pretty good class but then Ty fell asleep at the switch. Consider this:


In Ty's 2004 class, six players stayed with the Irish out of 16 that Ty recruited. Ty followed that class with a 15-man class, of which 13 remained with the Irish. Lee Corso and other talking heads like to credit this last class, Pat Kuntz's class, as Charlie's; but anyone who knows recruiting knows it takes more than a year to recruit high school kids, not two weeks.



Additionally, Ty gets credit for Stovall and McKnight's class, even though, again, it takes more than a year to recruit these kids; so Ty's "first" class is really Bob Davie's last class. Adding the numbers, Ty had Brady's class, then, proceeded to recruit 31 players for 50 available spots, retaining 19 players for those 50 spots. There's a lack of numbers in the senior class and fifth-year class from a pure mentorship perspective. There aren't enough bodies



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/63341-irish-faithful-charlie-weis-is-notre-dames-future/page/2

I could post similar stories about what he did to the roster while at Washington. The guy is not a recruiter

KoryMac5
12-01-2009, 05:38 PM
Brady Quinn's class was a pretty good class but then Ty fell asleep at the switch. Consider this:





http://bleacherreport.com/articles/63341-irish-faithful-charlie-weis-is-notre-dames-future/page/2

I could post similar stories about what he did to the roster while at Washington. The guy is not a recruiter

For all of Ty's faults Weis was a much worse recruiter. In fact he has stated on numerous occasions that he didn't know how to relate to 18 and 19 year old kids. He felt much more comfortable in the pro's coaching. If you hire a coach for ND you have to hire a guy who doesn't mind going coast to coast as ND tries to recruit each area of the US.

paintmered
12-01-2009, 05:41 PM
With Kelly coming out today and acknowledging the talks for an extension and also acknowledging that ND has not contacted him. Why not issue a statement yesterday when rumors started to swirl. Sounds to me like Kelly had an interest in the ND job but ND did not reciprocate the love back.

This is the prevailing sentiment on the UC boards, and I think the smoke points to it being the most likely scenario. Kelly courted Notre Dame but Notre Dame hasn't reciprocated. Every time one of their first choices say no, I get a little more worried that Kelly's name will be the next on the list. I'm not sure how I'd feel knowing I'm the 6th choice, but that's just me.

Also, one of the purposes of having an agent is to have the plausible deniability of saying, "Notre Dame hasn't contacted me."

paintmered
12-01-2009, 05:48 PM
I don't. It's hard to recurit the kind of players Dantonio needed / wanted to be successful with his system. Kelly's spread-offense is much more "plug-n-play" -- which is why so many small schools used it before the big boys started catching on.

UC lacks the players, especially up front, to be a power-running or pro-style offense.

Spot on. Dantonio installed the "run and punt" offense. He made them a physically tough team to compete but UC didn't have the athleticism to be elite. Dantonio was a step in the right direction, and at the time, I was very happy for it. But you are absolutely correct in that Dantonio would not have UC in the BCS like Kelly has.

Dantonio mostly recruited 2 star guys, including all those four year starters from last year's defense (the cupboard was absolutely bare their freshman year and Dantonio had no other choice but to play them). Under Kelly, UC is now getting 3-4 star guys, many from the back yard.

Puffy
12-01-2009, 05:58 PM
For all of Ty's faults Weis was a much worse recruiter. In fact he has stated on numerous occasions that he didn't know how to relate to 18 and 19 year old kids. He felt much more comfortable in the pro's coaching. If you hire a coach for ND you have to hire a guy who doesn't mind going coast to coast as ND tries to recruit each area of the US.

Wow, Kory - that statement is way wrong. Jimmy Clausen was the number 1 recruit in the land coming out of high school. Dayne Crist, his back-up is also a 5 star. Kyle Ruldolph was the number 1 tight end in his class. Manti Teo was the number 1 LB in his class. Weis pulled numerous kids out of St Thomas Aquinas - the number 1 team this year and top 5 last year. Sam Young was a 5 star linemen and top 4 at his position in his class. Chris Martin (who just de-committed today because Weis is gone) is a 5 star DE/LB. Ethan Johnson was a high 4 star that Weis pulled out of Washington. Shaq Evans committed to USC before de-committing to Weis. I could go on.

Weis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Willingham as a recruiter.

MWM
12-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Ty Willinghm might be the worst recruiter in the history of big time college football programs (scheduling a staff golf outing on one the biggest recruiting weekend of the year). By all accounts, he just didn't care much about it. And he didn't really try to hide that fact either.

Sea Ray
12-01-2009, 06:41 PM
Ty Willinghm might be the worst recruiter in the history of big time college football programs (scheduling a staff golf outing on one the biggest recruiting weekend of the year). By all accounts, he just didn't care much about it. And he didn't really try to hide that fact either.

I thought this was general knowledge but I'm amazed to read just the opposite from several Redszoners.

If Weis doesn't relate to 18-19 year olds then I'm amazed to read how much they love him. I've even read that Clausen wouldn't be at ND if not for Charlie Weis

KoryMac5
12-01-2009, 07:16 PM
From what I have heard coming from ND beat reporters is that Weis could get kids his first few years based on his name recognition. Winning a Super Bowl with New England and coaching Tom Brady will do that for a program. However when it came to recruiting it wasn't something Weis was fond of. He always came off as abrasive and cocky when on the trail like all he had to do was flash his Super Bowl ring or mention Tom Brady's name. This isn't just rumors either, Pryor was recruited by Weis and according to the following that visit didn't go really well. Here is what Coach Reitz had to say about Weis recruiting efforts:


The guy who once boasted he “could get hoodlums and thugs and win tomorrow” strolled into Jeannette High School in the spring of 2007 to recruit superstar quarterback Terrelle Pryor.

Jeannette coach Ray Reitz knew a bit about Charlies Weis and his reputation. Still, he was stunned by what he describes as a level of conceit he never had seen from the dozens of college coaches he had visited with over the years.

Weis certainly made a lasting impression.

“Arrogant as hell,” Reitz said.

When Reitz told Weis that Pryor might attend a USC quarterbacks camp, he remembers Weis replying: “Why send him there? If he’s with me for one day he’ll be good, two days he’ll be great and three days he’ll be incredible.”

Later, unprompted, Weis asked the Jeannette coaches if they wanted to take a picture of his Super Bowl ring. “I did it, just to be polite, and then gave [the picture] to one of the kids,” Reitz recalled.

Everyone who comes into contact with Weis, it seems, has a story—and they’re rarely complimentary.

Many former players and alums are down on him for what they perceive as his arrogance, but they’re reluctant to speak for the record.

Why? As one prominent alum explained it, “A lot of things at Notre Dame hinge on your being a friend of the university.”

Alumni are fearful that if they speak out against Weis, they might lose their football tickets or their parking spots, or hinder their kids’ chances for admission to the school.

Yet they paint a picture consistent with a coach who referred to himself as “an obnoxious, sarcastic guy from New Jersey” in a “60 Minutes” profile that aired in 2006.

In the story, Weis screamed at a referee for a “bull—-” call and yelled at one of his coaches to get the “[expletive]” off the field.

If Weis were arrogant, foul-mouthed and winning, few Notre Dame alums would grumble.

But his record is 27-19. Gerry Faust went 25-20-1 through 46 games against tougher opponents.

“And at least he was a good guy,” one alum noted.

Notre Dame is a special place, with a mix of football tradition and academic excellence matched perhaps only by Michigan and USC.

But Weis is not a special coach and certainly hasn’t seemed worthy of walking in the footsteps of Rockne, Leahy, Parseghian and Holtz.

The sooner Notre Dame admits its colossal mistake and sends Weis back to New Jersey, the better.

Weis is incredibly lucky. In his first season, using Tyrone Willingham’s players, he parlayed a hot start—plus real or contrived interest from NFL teams—into a contract extension through 2015.

Months earlier Weis had said he “didn’t come here to take a job in the NFL in three years.” But Irish officials, desperate after the George O’Leary and Willingham flops, threw at least $30 million and six more seasons his way.

Although some believe that fat contract is serving as Weis’ shield, a source with Notre Dame ties insists a costly buyout would play no role in whether the school keeps him.

Honestly to me I don't think he was a great recruiter, he was a guy who over valued propects and didn't know how to deal with strict academic standards. Plus he never really developed the talent once he got them which speaks directly to the point that he couldn't relate to 18 and 19 year old players. Charlie is much better suited for the NFL.

MWM
12-01-2009, 07:37 PM
Well, he consistently got players who were coveted by other elite programs and were top tier recruits by all the recruiting services. So I don't know how he wasn't a good recruiter. Now actually developing said players and game coaching is another story. But getting highly touted recruits to come to South Bend was not his problem.

KoryMac5
12-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Weis' recruiting ranks from Scout.com

2005 27th rated class

2006 5th

2007 11th

2008 2nd

2009 23rd

2010 17th

When compared to Ty

2002 13th

2003 5th

2004 30th

I don't see a huge difference in the numbers between the two. Had Ty got another two years he may have put together another good class or a few stinkers. It does look like what everyone could agree on both coaches had a terrible time developing players for there system.

Hoosier Red
12-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Weis' recruiting ranks from Scout.com

2005 27th rated class

2006 5th

2007 11th

2008 2nd

2009 23rd

2010 17th

When compared to Ty

2002 13th

2003 5th

2004 30th

I don't see a huge difference in the numbers between the two. Had Ty got another two years he may have put together another good class or a few stinkers. It does look like what everyone could agree on both coaches had a terrible time developing players for there system.

Just curious, how many guys from the 2006 class will be drafted next year or in this past year. I mean a recruiting class sounds great and all, but really how good were the players if they were getting beat by UConn?

Besides, I thought Notre Dame couldn't get good players because they're standards were too tough?

You can go round and round and round, either Charlie Weiss was a great recruiter and an awful coach, or he was an overhyped recruiter and simply a bad coach.

Chip R
12-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Well, he consistently got players who were coveted by other elite programs and were top tier recruits by all the recruiting services. So I don't know how he wasn't a good recruiter. Now actually developing said players and game coaching is another story. But getting highly touted recruits to come to South Bend was not his problem.

I think you have it pretty close to being right. There are going to be top players who would come to Notre Dame if Atilla the Hun was the coach. Just like there are top recruits in Ohio who will go to tOSU because it's tOSU. But it's what you do with the recruits once they get there that determines how good of players they become. I don't think Weis did that very well.

LoganBuck
12-01-2009, 10:49 PM
With Kelly coming out today and acknowledging the talks for an extension and also acknowledging that ND has not contacted him. Why not issue a statement yesterday when rumors started to swirl. Sounds to me like Kelly had an interest in the ND job but ND did not reciprocate the love back.

I don't think Brian Kelly has said anything one way or another. If he wants to stay, why wouldn't he just say, "I am the coach of the Cincinnati Bearcats, and I will be next year, as long as they will have me."?

Instead he makes a passive statement. He is either using his position to leverage a bigger contract from Cincinnati, or waiting until Sunday to talk to Notre Dame, or both.

Mario-Rijo
12-02-2009, 02:14 PM
I thought this was general knowledge but I'm amazed to read just the opposite from several Redszoners.

If Weis doesn't relate to 18-19 year olds then I'm amazed to read how much they love him. I've even read that Clausen wouldn't be at ND if not for Charlie Weis

FYI if you are referring to me I didn't say Ty was a great recruiter or even a decent one. But you said the following:


I agree that turning around ND is not that tough. The cupboard is not bare, although it was when Willingham left.

What I was intimating was Willingham left as good a team as Weis has. Now I don't know the depth of Weis' recruiting but it seems to me that Willingham left just as good if not better top end talent. And based on what I see on the field I doubt the depth of his classes. But as someone else said maybe he and his coaches just aren't any good at development.

MWM
12-02-2009, 02:31 PM
Willingham had one good recruiting class and they were juniors when Weis took over. But the following two classes were probably the two worst in ND history. After the Quinn class graduated, they literally did not have enough talent to compete with most MAC schools.

Weis has left a solid depth at talent across all his classes. The person taking over is not going to have a total void like Weis faced. Heck, even when Weis was hired he made a comment that he wasn't so much worried about the immediate team, but had no idea what he was going to do in his third year. Everyone who followed ND knew that after the Quinn class, they had zippo and would be relying on freshman and sophomores.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 02:38 PM
Weis' recruiting ranks from Scout.com

2005 27th rated class

2006 5th

2007 11th

2008 2nd

2009 23rd

2010 17th

When compared to Ty

2002 13th

2003 5th

2004 30th

I don't see a huge difference in the numbers between the two. Had Ty got another two years he may have put together another good class or a few stinkers. It does look like what everyone could agree on both coaches had a terrible time developing players for there system.

First, that first year is actually Willingham's class. Weis didn't take over until a couple weeks before signing day and he got a few kids last minute who moved class up. When Weis was hired that class was in the high 30s.

Second, look after that - 5th, 11th and 2nd. The only reason we were 23rd last year was because we only had 17 ships available.

Third, the old saying is Rivals for football and scout for basketball. Rivals was always higher on Weis' classes than Scout.

Fourth, I guarantee you Willingham's classes would have been stinkers. The guy just stopped recruiting. ND got tons of crap from the media for letting Willingham go but he was already looking at Washinton before ND did anything. He wanted out because he didn't want to have to nationally recruit (which is a must for a school like ND)

Weis' problem was that he was an offensive coordinator in the head coaches chair. He kept trying to adjust but with each adjustment came new problems. Plus, he could never get a defense that was any good - which is all on him. A lot of his recruiting his first two years (and including his half class in 05) was on the offense. This kept hurting him. ND is finally getting athletes on the defensive side of the ball and now somebody needs to teach them how to tackle.

I will agree that Weis was not for everybody but what coach is. He still won battle after battle with the "elite" schools (including USC, Ohio State, Michigan - are they still elite I guess is a question but still - Tennessee, and even Florida, although they lost more to Florida than any other school).

Again, Weis deserved to be fired - but he did show outside coaches that they could recruit against the big schools and win those battles. Now ND needs someone who can continue to win on the recruiting trail and then develop those players and make them better. Especially on the defensive side of the ball.

bucksfan2
12-02-2009, 02:53 PM
Weis' problem was that he was an offensive coordinator in the head coaches chair. He kept trying to adjust but with each adjustment came new problems. Plus, he could never get a defense that was any good - which is all on him. A lot of his recruiting his first two years (and including his half class in 05) was on the offense. This kept hurting him. ND is finally getting athletes on the defensive side of the ball and now somebody needs to teach them how to tackle.

I will agree that Weis was not for everybody but what coach is. He still won battle after battle with the "elite" schools (including USC, Ohio State, Michigan - are they still elite I guess is a question but still - Tennessee, and even Florida, although they lost more to Florida than any other school).

Again, Weis deserved to be fired - but he did show outside coaches that they could recruit against the big schools and win those battles. Now ND needs someone who can continue to win on the recruiting trail and then develop those players and make them better. Especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Weis is a heck of an offensive coordinator. Heck he may even be a qualified NFL head coach. The problem with Weis, is that with the exception of QB and WR, he did very little to coach his players up. He also liked to recruit the "sexy" positions and forgot about the core positions. His defenses were awful and wit the exception Manti Te'o I can't recall another top notch defender that Weis got.

Recruiting isn't just about getting the top classes and top recruits. Its about getting the top recruits but also coaching up you mid range recruits. There are only so many 5 star recruits that a given coach can land. The good coaches take 3 star recruits and turn them into NFL prospects by the time they graduate.

SeeinRed
12-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Talk about conflicting reports:

Kelly to coach Irish... (http://www.irishcentral.com/sport/Brian-Kelly-will-be-next-Notre-Dame-football-coach.html)

...Or maybe not... (http://www.footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html)


LOL

Caveat Emperor
12-02-2009, 04:32 PM
Sounding more and more like Puffy's initial read about the Irish not being interested in Kelly is right.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 04:36 PM
Weis is a heck of an offensive coordinator. Heck he may even be a qualified NFL head coach. The problem with Weis, is that with the exception of QB and WR, he did very little to coach his players up. He also liked to recruit the "sexy" positions and forgot about the core positions. His defenses were awful and wit the exception Manti Te'o I can't recall another top notch defender that Weis got.

Recruiting isn't just about getting the top classes and top recruits. Its about getting the top recruits but also coaching up you mid range recruits. There are only so many 5 star recruits that a given coach can land. The good coaches take 3 star recruits and turn them into NFL prospects by the time they graduate.

Yes, this is almost exactly what I am getting at. Weis got football players on the defensive side of the ball. Never athletes who were football players. Thus, they lacked speed and Weis was unable to "coach them up" to overcome lack of speed. Now he started to get athletes towards the end but he still never showed he could coach them up and make them batter.

He could coach the heck out of QBs, WRs and TEs - but every other position had guys with recruiting stars but no tangible results. Its why I don't think a new coach will have to "rebuild." Yes we are not competing for a National Championship next year but there is talent and they can make noise - the people who don't see this have excellent reasons not to see it - everyone who isn't a ND fame keeps saying it. But the talent is there. They just need someone who can actually coach it, sorry Charlie.

Sea Ray
12-02-2009, 04:44 PM
What I was intimating was Willingham left as good a team as Weis has. Now I don't know the depth of Weis' recruiting but it seems to me that Willingham left just as good if not better top end talent. And based on what I see on the field I doubt the depth of his classes. But as someone else said maybe he and his coaches just aren't any good at development.


This is where we disagree. I assume you saw my earlier post which referenced the bleacher report:


Adding the numbers, Ty had Brady's class, then, proceeded to recruit 31 players for 50 available spots, retaining 19 players for those 50 spots.

That doesn't cut it. Even if there were some great recruits among those 19, that's not enough players to fill 50 spots. That's leaving the cupboard bare IMO

Matt700wlw
12-02-2009, 04:45 PM
I'm going to write a report that Brian Kelly is headed to Virginia...it'd spice things up a bit.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Sounding more and more like Puffy's initial read about the Irish not being interested in Kelly is right.

Well, not so fast. Here is what I am hearing - and these could all be mirrors, or smoke, or just made up crap, but this is what I have been able to gather.

Kelly is on list. He is behind Stoops and Meyer, but on list. They have had conversations with Stoops people and the rumor is contact parameters were even discussed but it appears Stoops wants to stay in Oklahoma. Meyer was sent feelers and he flatly said no, according to rumor mill. I think ND waits and sees what happens this Saturday and if Florida loses to Bama they will attack again.

When both those guys turn them down it goes to who is next. Some people think its Ferentz (blech) and others say Kelly. I originally thought they liked Patterson more than Kelly but Patterson signing extension before ND has a chance to get to him means he is not going to be guy (unless he stalls on signing contract). Another name I am hearing is Butch Davis, to which I again say blech. I liked Davis at Miami but he has not turned North Carolina around and I now wonder why. But Mack Brown left UNC as soon as a big program called so maybe college football is always going to be second fiddle in the Carolinas and its not Davis fault.

But the editors of Irish Illustrated have been told that the rumors of Kelly not being on list are completely false and they are waiting until after Pittsburgh game and to UF/Bama game to access. If Meyer quickly says no again then I think the Kelly talks will happen rather quickly.

Again, all this could be crap, but thats what I am reading and piecing together.

Chip R
12-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Puffy, if Kelly isn't going to be the coach there do you think they would settle on someone who isn't that well known? Not very many people heard of Kelly when he was hired and that turned out rather well for UC.

Sea Ray
12-02-2009, 04:47 PM
Talk about conflicting reports:

Kelly to coach Irish... (http://www.irishcentral.com/sport/Brian-Kelly-will-be-next-Notre-Dame-football-coach.html)

...Or maybe not... (http://www.footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html)


LOL

I think it's clear Kelly was not on ND's short list but if they get rejected by their "short listers" Kelly may end up being the guy afterall.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 04:50 PM
I think it's clear Kelly was not on ND's short list but if they get rejected by their "short listers" Kelly may end up being the guy afterall.

Read my post above - I think not only is he on the list but I happen to believe he is third.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 04:58 PM
Puffy, if Kelly isn't going to be the coach there do you think they would settle on someone who isn't that well known? Not very many people heard of Kelly when he was hired and that turned out rather well for UC.

I don't Chip. Jack Swarbrick has already come out and stated that they are looking for a home run hire and a hire that has build and sustained a program. I think that says it all.

Thus I think the list has on it:

Meyer
Stoops
Kelly
Patterson
Ferentz
Davis

The two who might be considered who you may be "correct" about are Harbaugh (who I think would be a horrible hire - he will walk to Michigan if offered that job once RichRod gets canned) and Pat Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald may be that guy - I am not so sure. Some ND fans want to compare him to Ara Parsagian (both from Northwestern, about same winning percentages there, etc) but Fitzgerald is young and I'm not sure ready for the firestorm that is the ND job (you know, because we are so irrelvant that the New York Times had a full page on us on Sunday and ESPN spend two days covering us). The ND name stills holds cache, unfortunately the product on the field does not at this current time.

One name I'd might like to see is Charlie Strong. He worked under Holtz and Davie at Notre Dame, then went with Holtz to South Carolina, then went to Meyer. Is a dynamite recruiter and a heck of a defensive coach. But ND won't hire a coordinator because of their history hiring them (epic fail!!)

SeeinRed
12-02-2009, 04:58 PM
I'd like to get your take on this one from footballcoachscoop.com Puffy, if you wouldn't mind.:


Notre Dame:
On Novmeber 23, FootballCoachScoop was the FIRST TO REPORT, that Tommy Tuberville has had contact with Athletic Director Jack Swarbrick.
FootballCoachScoop sources tell us that Tuberville has his staff in place and will get back in coaching if the right job is there for the taking.

Must be absolutely gut wrenching for ND fans to be going through this whole process again. Probably even more so than for UC fans waiting to see if Kelly leaves. Hopefully ND gets the right guy for the job. That would be a good thing for not only ND fans, but for College football as a whole IMO.... As long as that guy isn't named Brian Kelly.;)

Puffy
12-02-2009, 05:01 PM
And let me apologize for me making this a Notre Dame thread - I know its about Cincinnati and Kelly, so I hope I am not too annoying to everyone else.

SeeinRed
12-02-2009, 05:03 PM
And let me apologize for me making this a Notre Dame thread - I know its about Cincinnati and Kelly, so I hope I am not too annoying to everyone else.


Right now, ND has a lot to do with the Kelly situation. No problems here as far as I'm concerned.

MWM
12-02-2009, 05:04 PM
I can't see Tuberville happening or even being considered. That's Rich Rod to Michigan all over again. It's just a terrible fit.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 05:04 PM
I'd like to get your take on this one from footballcoachscoop.com Puffy, if you wouldn't mind.:



Must be absolutely gut wrenching for ND fans to be going through this whole process again. Probably even more so than for UC fans waiting to see if Kelly leaves. Hopefully ND gets the right guy for the job. That would be a good thing for not only ND fans, but for College football as a whole IMO.... As long as that guy isn't named Brian Kelly.;)

I don't believe it - footballcoachscoop has been throwing out rumors for three days now. I think its just a bunch of guys who started a website who are looking for traffic.

However, if we are to assume its true then I wouldn't be too happy. Tuberville is an OK coach but he isn't a home run. More like a soft single

Sea Ray
12-02-2009, 05:08 PM
Read my post above - I think not only is he on the list but I happen to believe he is third.

Your scenario sounds very plausible. Kelly and Meyer aren't going to negotiate before championship games and ND knows it.

So did ND ever consider Gruden, Harbaugh or Billick?

SeeinRed
12-02-2009, 05:12 PM
I don't believe it - footballcoachscoop has been throwing out rumors for three days now. I think its just a bunch of guys who started a website who are looking for traffic.

However, if we are to assume its true then I wouldn't be too happy. Tuberville is an OK coach but he isn't a home run. More like a soft single


Yeah, it didn't sound like a fit to me. I was just curious if you had heard anything like that and what ND fans might think of it. Thanks for the response.

As for the site, it seems that they throw anything they hear up there and see what sticks. I don't know what they have reported in the past, but seems like message board fodder.

KronoRed
12-02-2009, 05:19 PM
One name I'd might like to see is Charlie Strong. He worked under Holtz and Davie at Notre Dame, then went with Holtz to South Carolina, then went to Meyer. Is a dynamite recruiter and a heck of a defensive coach. But ND won't hire a coordinator because of their history hiring them (epic fail!!)

Actually it was the awesome Ron Zook who hired Strong as DC in 2002.

Supposedly Louisville is all over him to be their next head coach, won't be a bad hire and well past time for him to get a head job.

bucksfan2
12-02-2009, 05:25 PM
I don't Chip. Jack Swarbrick has already come out and stated that they are looking for a home run hire and a hire that has build and sustained a program. I think that says it all.

Thus I think the list has on it:

Meyer
Stoops
Kelly
Patterson
Ferentz
Davis

The two who might be considered who you may be "correct" about are Harbaugh (who I think would be a horrible hire - he will walk to Michigan if offered that job once RichRod gets canned) and Pat Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald may be that guy - I am not so sure. Some ND fans want to compare him to Ara Parsagian (both from Northwestern, about same winning percentages there, etc) but Fitzgerald is young and I'm not sure ready for the firestorm that is the ND job (you know, because we are so irrelvant that the New York Times had a full page on us on Sunday and ESPN spend two days covering us). The ND name stills holds cache, unfortunately the product on the field does not at this current time.

One name I'd might like to see is Charlie Strong. He worked under Holtz and Davie at Notre Dame, then went with Holtz to South Carolina, then went to Meyer. Is a dynamite recruiter and a heck of a defensive coach. But ND won't hire a coordinator because of their history hiring them (epic fail!!)

I think Pat Fitzgerald is the best hire. He has won and been competitive at Northwestern playing with as tough academic requirements and quite a bit lesser facilities. I know he is young and at his alma matter, but if I could choose one guy he would be the guy.

I think Harbaugh is one heck of a coach. He gets the best out of his players and gives his team a systematic advantage in every game. He plays a very prostyle form of football which lends itself well to playing in the midwest. The two problems I see with Harbaugh are that he is a Michigan man and would defect if offered the job and I think he may be a better pro coach.

Gruden would be my 3rd choice. Guy has passion for football and loves the game. His inevitable downfall in Tampa came because he couldn't find a QB, I don't see that being much of a problem at ND. I think he can become the midwestern version of Pete Carroll.

I think Kelly is the most intriguing coach. He has done a great job at UC but it is still to be seen how well he is at building a program. How does he do in the lean years, the down years, he has been great at UC, don't get me wrong, but how well does he build a program. If he stays at UC it will be interesting to see how they are next year and the year after. He also has some baggage that may hinder him.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 05:25 PM
So did ND ever consider Gruden, Harbaugh or Billick?

Thats a good question Sea Ray - honestly I don't know. I know for a fact that Gruden was very close to accepting the job in 04/05. There are reports out there that he even reached out to coaches to fill out a staff. But in the end he turned them down. Interestingly enough, if you read Meyer's book he says he went to bed the night before accepting the Florida job thinking he was accepting the ND job. He too was pretty close (if we believe his book). But I think if Gruden was that close last time that they went and felt him out again this time. I think he likes his announcing gig and I think he wants to stay in the NFL if and when he coaches again.

Harbaugh has not been contacted yet - if they do its because he is down on the list and they couldn't get anyone above him. Like I said, Harbaugh will bolt for either Michigan or the NFL as soon as he is offered. He is a bad fit for ND who needs stability.

Billick I think was more a figment of someone on TVs imagination

Puffy
12-02-2009, 05:30 PM
Actually it was the awesome Ron Zook who hired Strong as DC in 2002.

Supposedly Louisville is all over him to be their next head coach, won't be a bad hire and well past time for him to get a head job.

Yes, I meant to put the Louisville thing in my post but I forgot and left out. My bad. He is real close to taking that job, from all I've seen. Unless Virginia makes a move. Although I think Virginia targets Al Golden.

Chip R
12-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Supposedly Louisville is all over him to be their next head coach, won't be a bad hire and well past time for him to get a head job.


I heard LOU is hiring Fulmer. If that's true they better stock up on the donuts.

BRM
12-02-2009, 05:45 PM
However, if we are to assume its true then I wouldn't be too happy. Tuberville is an OK coach but he isn't a home run. More like a soft single

Would Davis or Ferentz be considered home runs in your mind?

Puffy
12-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Would Davis or Ferentz be considered home runs in your mind?

No - like I said, I used to be real high on Davis but UNC has tarnished his image. He has lost to a bunch of teams that he has more talent than.

This is from Irish Illustrated (Rivals site) and one of its editors/people with access. Pete is very good and he does his factchecking. Again, no idea if the info is credible but here is what he posted:

"Just got off the phone with a source connected to the Cincinnati football program, specifically the players on the team. He told me there's a feeling amongst the roster that Brian Kelly will be leaving the program after the season for Notre Dame. While Kelly hasn't addressed it with the team (probably a good move considering what's at stake for Kelly and the Bearcats this weekend), there's clearly a sentiment around the players that their coach will be leaving for South Bend after the season. Just passing this tidbit along..."

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com

Chip R
12-02-2009, 05:51 PM
Would Davis or Ferentz be considered home runs in your mind?


I don't think Ferentz is going anywhere. He just signed a huge extention last year and he has a kid or two playing for him. He's certainly not in any danger of being chased out of Iowa City.

KoryMac5
12-02-2009, 05:52 PM
From what I have heard the Chicago Tribune stated that ND did approach Gruden about the job informally through channels. Gruden did not express interest in the job as he wants an NFL coaching job and likes what he is doing now until one opens up.

The boosters/alumni will be none to happy if they do not get a big time college coach. As one of the stipulations for paying the money to buy out Weis was that the AD better make this next coach a home run.

The one name folks have speculated on if Notre Dame strikes out with their first few choices was Butch Davis the current North Carolina head coach. He desperately wants out of Tar Heel country and could make a big impact at ND which is a football first school.

GIDP
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
I dont know if I posted this before but until Kelly is gone I think hes going to be in Cincy. He is great at playing the Bill Parcell game of using every ounce of leverage.

BRM
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
If they can't pry Kelly away from UC then I don't know where they will go. If it's got to be a HR hire and Stoops, Meyer, Gruden, have all rejected them...leaves precious few on their "short" list to target. It's almost sounding like Kelly or bust.

Puffy
12-02-2009, 06:02 PM
I don't think Ferentz is going anywhere. He just signed a huge extention last year and he has a kid or two playing for him. He's certainly not in any danger of being chased out of Iowa City.

Its actually 3 kids and one of them is an offensive linemen (James). Hey, at least his son isn't the QB of the team, right Dan Hawkins ;)

Chip R
12-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Its actually 3 kids and one of them is an offensive linemen (James). Hey, at least his son isn't the QB of the team, right Dan Hawkins ;)


Ferentz has also had some discipline problems with his players over the past several years. Most of which have been alcohol related and one of the players involved was his son. I don't recall anything about recruiting violations though.

KoryMac5
12-02-2009, 07:35 PM
Opinion time here: Lets say for instance that the Bearcats have been negotiating with Kelly in good faith and by all reports they have. Suppose for a moment they have given Coach everything he has asked for in an extension; money, years, facilities, taken care of assistants etc... If he goes ahead and interviews with ND do you pull a Boston College type ultimatum with him and say if you interview for the job we will let you go, knowing full well that this could effect your chances of winning the Big East and playing in a huge bowl game.

MWM
12-02-2009, 07:58 PM
I dont know if I posted this before but until Kelly is gone I think hes going to be in Cincy. He is great at playing the Bill Parcell game of using every ounce of leverage.

Yeah, because we know Bill Parcells never jumped ship to another job.

GIDP
12-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Yeah, because we know Bill Parcells never jumped ship to another job.

He cant while hes under contract, but he constantly works his leverage to get a favorable deal no matter where he signs when he can.

WVRed
12-02-2009, 11:06 PM
Opinion time here: Lets say for instance that the Bearcats have been negotiating with Kelly in good faith and by all reports they have. Suppose for a moment they have given Coach everything he has asked for in an extension; money, years, facilities, taken care of assistants etc... If he goes ahead and interviews with ND do you pull a Boston College type ultimatum with him and say if you interview for the job we will let you go, knowing full well that this could effect your chances of winning the Big East and playing in a huge bowl game.

If you have somebody in waiting from within who you can afford to replace him with, then yes. From what I have read in this thread, UC really doesn't have anybody outside of Coombs, and he isn't ready.

If you think you can get rid of Kelly and try to attract a new coach though, then no.

LoganBuck
12-03-2009, 01:12 AM
FootballCoachScoop === FootballCoachPoop

Why do people think these guys are reliable? From what I have seen so far they spend a bunch of time reading message boards and blogs, and then post it on their site, as breaking reports. Just watching them for two days tells me they are less informed on the coaching searches around, than most plugged in fans.

paintmered
12-03-2009, 01:38 AM
FootballCoachScoop === FootballCoachPoop

Why do people think these guys are reliable? From what I have seen so far they spend a bunch of time reading message boards and blogs, and then post it on their site, as breaking reports. Just watching them for two days tells me they are less informed on the coaching searches around, than most plugged in fans.

Within five minutes, they reported that both Bob Stoops and Brian Kelly signed contracts at Notre Dame. I don't think they even take the time to process half the stuff they throw up there. Total rag of a website.

GAC
12-03-2009, 06:31 AM
Don't follow the situation that much, and don't know if the following is reliable or just balderdash; but at work I've had several guys say that Kelly's "dream" job, and that is according to Kelly (from statements in the past, I guess), is ND, and that he will grab it if offered.

Any truth to it?

Reds4Life
12-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Don't follow the situation that much, and don't know if the following is reliable or just balderdash; but at work I've had several guys say that Kelly's "dream" job, and that is according to Kelly (from statements in the past, I guess), is ND, and that he will grab it if offered.

Any truth to it?

Nobody really knows.

ND was supposed to be Urban Meyer's dream job as well, he was offered it, and turned it down.

SunDeck
12-03-2009, 01:30 PM
Nobody really knows.


I think a truer statement couldn't be found. The ubiquity of the internet just allows all the unfounded rumors to seem more legit because they're posted on a website somewhere.

This will end when it ends and without Kelly or ND coming out and saying directly to the press what is up, we will all be in the dark until it's over.

GAC
12-04-2009, 06:21 AM
Is this is a possible problem with a school (program) like the Bearcats (and even others trying to do the same as Cincy)), which has done all the right things, and taken tremendous steps in the last several years to vastly improve their football program....... holding onto coaches because they are not yet (but working on) becoming a consistent "established" football program, and not losing them to those "big name" schools (programs)?

paintmered
12-04-2009, 08:18 AM
Skip Holtz, welcome to the rumor fray.

SunDeck
12-04-2009, 11:16 AM
Is this is a possible problem with a school (program) like the Bearcats (and even others trying to do the same as Cincy)), which has done all the right things, and taken tremendous steps in the last several years to vastly improve their football program....... holding onto coaches because they are not yet (but working on) becoming a consistent "established" football program, and not losing them to those "big name" schools (programs)?

This sounds similar to the plight of small market mlb teams. Develop talent, lose it when they can go to the YankDodgerAngelMetSox.

Chip R
12-04-2009, 12:02 PM
This sounds similar to the plight of small market mlb teams. Develop talent, lose it when they can go to the YankDodgerAngelMetSox.


That's a pretty good analogy. And not just because of the coaching situation either. The whole structure of FBS football right now is that there are a few powerful teams and the rest have to fight for the scraps. Every once in a while, some team comes out of the wilderness and competes but on the whole it's usually the few powerful teams that are vying for the championship.

SeeinRed
12-04-2009, 06:43 PM
I've seen a couple message boards claiming that ND is/has been negotiating with Stoops, but the perspective deal is on life support or dead. I've also seen and heard that UC is working very, very hard to keep BK at UC, a lot of it because of the new President. If they get something worked out with BK, the new President deserves a ton of credit. One person even says the President sat down a told BK that his main objective is to keep him here, which really pleased Kelly. I have also seen/heard that BK was asked what he wanted, and his response was that he wanted to stay at Cincinnati.

Just filling in on some leg work so everybody doesn't have to go scouring around for this info. There isn't a lot of new info from what we already knew. How much of it is true is debatable, but I do believe the UC powers that be are doing everything they can to hold up its end of the deal.

Tony Cloninger
12-05-2009, 08:30 PM
I see in the ESPN and ABC ticker that Kelly said he would talk to ND....if they wanted to speak with him.
Not exactly comforting words ....and not exactly understanding what the point of saying something like that (IF he actually did)
I mean I understand he wants the job.....but you are close to playing in a big bowl game and IF ND wanted you...they would call you.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 11:00 PM
ESPN reporting that Notre Dame will announce its new coach tomorrow.

FWIW, Gilyard and Aaron Webster said Kelly told the team he wasn't leaving on Thursday. It might have been real honesty, it might have been only motivation for the Pitt game. Guess we'll know everything tomorrow.

Reds4Life
12-05-2009, 11:47 PM
I saw they "might" announce something tomorrow, but nothing is for sure.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:05 AM
nothing is for sure.

That's been the only constant through all of this.

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2009, 04:17 AM
Kelly has said before (direct quote) "I am not Mark Dantonio."

By telling his players that he is staying, he's put himself in a position where he would be Mark Dantonio v. 2.0 if he left.

We'll see how it all shakes out.

Brutus
12-06-2009, 04:28 AM
FootballCoachScoop === FootballCoachPoop

Why do people think these guys are reliable? From what I have seen so far they spend a bunch of time reading message boards and blogs, and then post it on their site, as breaking reports. Just watching them for two days tells me they are less informed on the coaching searches around, than most plugged in fans.

It's especially a good question after this:

The definition of losing credibility as a site... (http://www.ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=12472;d=this)

Paste from a poster on Notre Dame Nation:

Yesterday afternoon, I was amused by not only the sheer amount of rumors being passed around the interwebs, but also the incredible idiocy of them. So, while in the ISD chat I decided to see how exactly a rumor works in this day in age.

The easiest place to start, from my standpoint was footballcoachscoop.com. This site was touted as "legitimate" by someone that posts both here and on ISD. This particular site is so terrible that I feared it would be too low of a bar. I was not disappointed.

At 6:56 pm, I sent the following e-mail to footballcoachscoop.com:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_pduwoBainOo/Sxl_UAmvLTI/AAAAAAAAAQE/uew463sJl_o/s800/Capture.PNG

Now, some background. Nothing in this e-mail is true. At all. I made up every word of it. I intentionally left the wording as vague as possible. I wanted it to be believable, yet easily disprovable. Footballcoachscoop did not ask me any questions on this data or the validity therein.

After I sent the e-mail, I told a few others about this. After I told them what I did, the operators of HerLoyalSons graciously used their twitter account to give me a huge assist.

So, I went to bed and waited, knowing that they update their site in the morning. Midmorning today, this was what Footballcoachscoop was showing:

http://bluegraysky.com/images/bielema-scoop.jpg

So right there, it took me all of a few minutes of work to get onto that craphole of a site. As most of you know, the story doesn't stop there. Posters on ISD picked it up and ran with it, and from there another site of ill-repute, The Examiner, picked it up.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_pduwoBainOo/SxmB5WgkOBI/AAAAAAAAAQM/7I1_r1th3Iw/s800/Capture3.PNG

So, what does this mean? The internet doesn't know what the hell it's talking about, that's what it means. It is incredibly easy to start something and then have it spread like wildfire. Before all this is over, I wouldn't be surprised if the Ocho had an insider blurb linking to the original.

The people that are shoveling this nonsense are not doing any due diligence. If they would have asked any substantive questions of me or checked with people actually in the Athletic Department they would have seen my credentials are bunk. Don't think for a second that this is limited to this one site, it's not. I could have chosen any number of patsies to try this out.

Right now, the average "rumor" site's research method consists of:

1.) Receive tip in e-mail.
2.) Check Twitter
3.) ....................

4.) Story!

We would all do well to remember that those who actually know what the hell is going on first hand don't have time for nonsense like this.

Also, apologies for causing any heart attacks if anyone actually bought the rumor.

Razor Shines
12-06-2009, 06:51 AM
ESPN reporting that Notre Dame will announce its new coach tomorrow.

FWIW, Gilyard and Aaron Webster said Kelly told the team he wasn't leaving on Thursday. It might have been real honesty, it might have been only motivation for the Pitt game. Guess we'll know everything tomorrow.

Apparently it was a Chicago newspaper that was reporting that they'll announce something tomorrow and now that story has been taken off their website.

Razor Shines
12-06-2009, 07:45 AM
Christ Turns Down 3-Year, Multimillion Dollar Deal To Coach Notre Dame

SOUTH BEND, IN—Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Savior of All Mankind, and current defensive coordinator at Middle Tennessee State, said Monday that He would not accept Notre Dame's 3-year, $5.6 million offer to coach the Fighting Irish. "I love Notre Dame and respect their football legacy, but no matter what you've accomplished before coaching there, once you're a Golden Domer, the expectations, frankly, are unrealistic," said Christ, whose family has been involved with the university since its founding. "I've had people turn on Me before, and it really put Me through hell. But even more importantly, I've made a commitment to stay with the Blue Raiders through 2015." Christ denied asking Notre Dame to remove His likeness from the building overlooking their stadium, saying He liked a good joke as much as anybody.http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/christ_turns_down_3_year?utm_source=onion_rss_dail y

redsfandan
12-06-2009, 11:48 AM
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/christ_turns_down_3_year?utm_source=onion_rss_dail y
That's pretty good. lol Thanks for posting that Razor Shines.

KoryMac5
12-06-2009, 12:16 PM
I know when the WFAN had the ND beat writer on Monday he said they wanted to wrap this thing up in a week. Which would lead me to believe it is a coach not preparing for a major bowl game.

I would have to think Kelly is staying put but he sure does send some mixed messages. If he talks to ND before the Big Bowl Game it will be a very disrespectful gesture towards the Bearcats and their fans.

top6
12-06-2009, 12:39 PM
I know when the WFAN had the ND beat writer on Monday he said they wanted to wrap this thing up in a week. Which would lead me to believe it is a coach not preparing for a major bowl game.

I would have to think Kelly is staying put but he sure does send some mixed messages. If he talks to ND before the Big Bowl Game it will be a very disrespectful gesture towards the Bearcats and their fans.

I have to LOL at this. (1) It's the EXACT same thing he did to Central Michigan, and I didn't hear any Bearcat fans complain at the time. (2) Why would any great coach be loyal to UC, given the way the University treated the last great coach who was here? (Of course, the fans did (rightly) complain about that.)

It would be one thing if they were playing for a national championship, but they're not. As a practical matter, if he's going to interview at ND, he has to do it before the bowl game.

jimbo
12-06-2009, 12:54 PM
I have to LOL at this. (1) It's the EXACT same thing he did to Central Michigan, and I didn't hear any Bearcat fans complain at the time.

Didn't he leave Central Michigan having to use an interim head coach in their bowl game?

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:55 PM
Didn't he leave Central Michigan having to use an interim head coach in their bowl game?

He split his coaching staffs between Central Michigan and UC but did not coach CMU in their bowl game.

Reds4Life
12-06-2009, 12:59 PM
Didn't he leave Central Michigan having to use an interim head coach in their bowl game?

Central Michigan also wasn't playing in a major bowl game either.

There is a big difference between between what they were doing and playing in a BCS bowl game.

jimbo
12-06-2009, 01:06 PM
Central Michigan also wasn't playing in a major bowl game either.

There is a big difference between between what they were doing and playing in a BCS bowl game.

Maybe, but that was Central Michigan's first bowl game since 1994, so to their players and fans, it was probably a big deal.

SeeinRed
12-06-2009, 01:07 PM
(2) Why would any great coach be loyal to UC, given the way the University treated the last great coach who was here? (Of course, the fans did (rightly) complain about that.)


This is really a stretch IMO. I don't think this crosses BK's mind. I can see the Central Mich. comparisons somewhat, but not this one. UC is giving BK everything he wants to stay here. Comparing apples to oranges.

LoganBuck
12-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Central Michigan also wasn't playing in a major bowl game either.

There is a big difference between between what they were doing and playing in a BCS bowl game.

I am sure that game was a big deal to the Central Michigan players.

KoryMac5
12-06-2009, 01:16 PM
I have to LOL at this. (1) It's the EXACT same thing he did to Central Michigan, and I didn't hear any Bearcat fans complain at the time. (2) Why would any great coach be loyal to UC, given the way the University treated the last great coach who was here? (Of course, the fans did (rightly) complain about that.)

It would be one thing if they were playing for a national championship, but they're not. As a practical matter, if he's going to interview at ND, he has to do it before the bowl game.

I am not a Bearcat fan so I would not pin my statement on them. I just think that when UC has negotiated in good faith with coach and has given him every thing (reportedly) he wanted in an extension that he owes it to his players and the administration to be upfront with them about whether or not he is going to interview for the ND job. Especially with the biggest bowl game of their lives coming up.

I guess as a PSU fan I am pretty spoiled having Paterno stay in one spot for so long and build our program into something special.

top6
12-06-2009, 07:19 PM
Central Michigan also wasn't playing in a major bowl game either.

There is a big difference between between what they were doing and playing in a BCS bowl game.

As others have said, it was a big bowl game to those players (I'm sure). And as Cincinnati as no chance to win a national title, I don't see what's so particularly big about this game as opposed to every other bowl game.

top6
12-06-2009, 07:21 PM
I am not a Bearcat fan so I would not pin my statement on them. I just think that when UC has negotiated in good faith with coach and has given him every thing (reportedly) he wanted in an extension that he owes it to his players and the administration to be upfront with them about whether or not he is going to interview for the ND job. Especially with the biggest bowl game of their lives coming up.

I guess as a PSU fan I am pretty spoiled having Paterno stay in one spot for so long and build our program into something special.

I agree with this, but this isn't what you said before. You said if "he talks to ND before the Big Bowl Game it will be a very disrespectful gesture towards the Bearcats and their fans." I agree that he should be up front about what is he is doing, and I think we was when he said - basically - that he would listen to Notre Dame if they wanted to talk to him.

top6
12-06-2009, 07:25 PM
This is really a stretch IMO. I don't think this crosses BK's mind. I can see the Central Mich. comparisons somewhat, but not this one. UC is giving BK everything he wants to stay here. Comparing apples to oranges.

Of course they are giving him everything he wants now. But as soon as he messes up a little, it's pretty clear the university will turn on him. So he would be very smart to take the better money now, when he still can.

It's sort of ironic, because the only reason UC even gets to play in BCS bowls is because Bob Huggins basically got them into a BCS conference all by himself. Kelly may choose to use UC as a stepping stone the same way UC used Huggins. And Kelly shouldn't feel at all guilty about it, IMO.

KoryMac5
12-06-2009, 07:45 PM
I agree with this, but this isn't what you said before. You said if "he talks to ND before the Big Bowl Game it will be a very disrespectful gesture towards the Bearcats and their fans." I agree that he should be up front about what is he is doing, and I think we was when he said - basically - that he would listen to Notre Dame if they wanted to talk to him.

I still think it would be disrespectful to the student body and the fans of the Bearcats as well. After all Kelly's salary and contract extension will be in large part paid for by rising tuition costs and donations made by the fans.

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2009, 08:28 PM
I am sure that game was a big deal to the Central Michigan players.

Yeah, but let's be real -- their fans probably get excited when the team shop orders T-shirts with the right direction on the front. ;)

joshnky
12-06-2009, 09:19 PM
After all Kelly's salary and contract extension will be in large part paid for by rising tuition costs and donations made by the fans.

Is this really true? If the athletic department is not self-sufficient and depends on money from the general fund than UC can't expect to sustain success in any of the major sports.

I really doubt that Kelly's salary has been paid for by raising tuition. I'll also add that most football programs (maybe not UC) contribute money back to the athletic department which helps fund Title IX programs so I seriously doubt that money paid to the athletic fund (outside of a few boosters) pays Kelley's salary.

dougdirt
12-06-2009, 09:27 PM
Is this really true? If the athletic department is not self-sufficient and depends on money from the general fund than UC can't expect to sustain success in any of the major sports.

I really doubt that Kelly's salary has been paid for by raising tuition. I'll also add that most football programs (maybe not UC) contribute money back to the athletic department which helps fund Title IX programs so I seriously doubt that money paid to the athletic fund (outside of a few boosters) pays Kelley's salary.

Its not just Title IX programs, most basketball and football teams fund the entire athletic departments at schools.

LoganBuck
12-07-2009, 07:57 AM
Its not just Title IX programs, most basketball and football teams fund the entire athletic departments at schools.

That isn't really totally true, at the BCS conference level it is. Football is a big money loser if people don't come. Think UC pre BigEast. They actually considered dumping the football program

LoganBuck
12-07-2009, 07:58 AM
Yeah, but let's be real -- their fans probably get excited when the team shop orders T-shirts with the right direction on the front. ;)

You mean like when a certain fan base got excited about shirts that show the nickname of the state they inhabit? :p:

redsmetz
12-07-2009, 09:03 AM
Is this really true? If the athletic department is not self-sufficient and depends on money from the general fund than UC can't expect to sustain success in any of the major sports.

I really doubt that Kelly's salary has been paid for by raising tuition. I'll also add that most football programs (maybe not UC) contribute money back to the athletic department which helps fund Title IX programs so I seriously doubt that money paid to the athletic fund (outside of a few boosters) pays Kelley's salary.

It's not true according to UC's Q&A viz the school's budget.

The Athletics program is run as a self-sustaining auxiliary. The Athletics budget - around $20 million, or about 2.5 percent of the total budget - is funded by Athletics revenues.

http://www.uc.edu/president/faq_budget.html#Q3

joshnky
12-07-2009, 09:51 AM
It's not true according to UC's Q&A viz the school's budget.

The Athletics program is run as a self-sustaining auxiliary. The Athletics budget - around $20 million, or about 2.5 percent of the total budget - is funded by Athletics revenues.

http://www.uc.edu/president/faq_budget.html#Q3

Which likely means football is a huge revenue generator. So contrary to a previous posters point, Brian Kelly, in the end, pays his own salary with the success of the football team. While he may owe the fans for their support he doesn't owe them anything for his salary.

hebroncougar
12-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Which likely means football is a huge revenue generator. So contrary to a previous posters point, Brian Kelly, in the end, pays his own salary with the success of the football team. While he may owe the fans for their support he doesn't owe them anything for his salary.

And who rewards the success of the football team by buying tickets, merchandise, etc? The fans.........so they do pay his salary....:confused:

Hoosier Red
12-07-2009, 11:45 AM
And who rewards the success of the football team by buying tickets, merchandise, etc? The fans.........so they do pay his salary....:confused:


Yes, it's so good of the fans to buy tickets and merchandise out of the goodness of their own hearts. They go because they like being associated with a winner. Brian Kelly has given the fans everything they could ask for and more.

jimbo
12-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Kelly: I'm evaluating the future


University of Cincinnati football coach Brian Kelly told Dan Patrick today that he is going to evaluate his future in the next few days and that there is no guarantee he'll be coaching in the Sugar Bowl.

Kelly told Patrick that he would know his future by Saturday. Kelly's comments came the day after UC learned it will play Florida in the Jan. 1 Sugar Bowl.

"There's a chance I could look at another job," Kelly said. "I haven't made that decision yet."

The opening Kelly has been most identified with is in South Bend, Indiana. The University of Notre Dame fired Charlie Weis last week and is expected to name Weis' replacement by the end of this week.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091207/SPT0101/312070051/Kelly++I+m+evaluating+the+future

Dom Heffner
12-07-2009, 02:39 PM
I said something about Billy Idol and I should have said it about Kelly: What a tool.

I'm sorry to be bitter, but UC finally gets a good program going and voila, some overrated program comes in and tries to take him away- and better yet, he's listening.

Well, at least even though he'll be 2-8 next year, he'll be guranteed a spot on NBC every week. Nothing like watching a team that was good when your grandfather was young.

Yeah, they have a great winning percentage. Winning tons of games in the 1920s and 40s will do that for you.

Hope it works out for him like it did with Faust.

I need to take some pills- I'm bitter LOL....

cincrazy
12-07-2009, 02:41 PM
That's rough.

I think, strangely enough, Kelly is handling it right. He's being honest, which is better than being a snake about it, vowing to not go to ND, and then leaving the next day.

Regardless, it's a horrible position to put Cincinnati in.

dougdirt
12-07-2009, 02:51 PM
I can't say I blame Kelly for talking to them. At the very least it ups his offer from UC if he chooses to stay. At the same time, I think he is an idiot if he takes the ND job. Its just an unwinnable place to coach.

Matt700wlw
12-07-2009, 02:51 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/88681/index.html

The Dan Patrick interview where he makes no promises that he'll even coach the Sugar Bowl.

Hoosier Red
12-07-2009, 02:57 PM
I can't say I blame Kelly for talking to them. At the very least it ups his offer from UC if he chooses to stay. At the same time, I think he is an idiot if he takes the ND job. Its just an unwinnable place to coach.

I disagree, why do you think its unwinnable?
As opposed to UC where 11-1 could land you in the Meineke Car Care bowl,
11-1 Notre Dame is almost guaranteed to be in the BCS.

Here's what Notre Dame will have with the right coach?
A perenial top 20 team
A chance every year to compete for a BCS spot(with a lot more margin for error than at UC.)
A chance when everything lines up correctly to play for the National Championship.

Notre Dame obviously has some issues which make it more difficult, but quite honestly as opposed to 10 years ago, they don't play an overwhelmingly difficult schedule and you can get good enough players to make a system work.

Dom Heffner
12-07-2009, 03:00 PM
Hoosier, you forgot to mention they'll be on NBC every week, good or bad.

Caveat Emperor
12-07-2009, 03:01 PM
Per ESPN: Kelly's interviewing with Notre Dame on Tuesday.

It was fun while it lasted.

SunDeck
12-07-2009, 03:06 PM
Per ESPN: Kelly's interviewing with Notre Dame on Tuesday.

It was fun while it lasted.

I was just listening to the Dan Patrick interview, thinking he's doing a heck of a job playing these two schools against each other. Either way, Kelly's going to need a wheelbarrow to haul his wallet around.

Tony Cloninger
12-07-2009, 03:10 PM
I agree with Dom. His choice to go where he wants but the big deal about ND....as of right now...is something that I do not get

Hoosier Red
12-07-2009, 03:14 PM
I agree with Dom. His choice to go where he wants but the big deal about ND....as of right now...is something that I do not get

I think its ego more than anything.
Think of how highly thought of Charlie Weis was for about half a second when they almost beat USC.
Think of how highly thought of Ty Willingham was when the Irish raced out to a 6-0 or 7-0 start in his first year.

If a coach can maintain that (and no coach who's accomplished what Brian Kelly has doesn't think he could maintain that) he'd be thought of not as a great coach, but as one of the greatest coaches in the game.

flyer85
12-07-2009, 03:17 PM
What's wrong with going to interview for a new job that is going to pay you a lot more money.

I guess the large majority of folks around here would turn down an opportunity to interview if it came along.

OnBaseMachine
12-07-2009, 03:17 PM
I would much, much, much rather coach at Cincinnati than Notre Dame. In fact, if I were a head coach, Notre Dame wouldn't be in my top 50 of programs I'd like to coach at.

flyer85
12-07-2009, 03:18 PM
I would much, much, much rather coach at Cincinnati than Notre Dame. In fact, if I were a head coach, Notre Dame wouldn't be in my top 50 of programs I'd like to coach at.I guess it's good that they haven't yet asked if you want an interview. ;)

Matt700wlw
12-07-2009, 03:21 PM
Jimmy Claussen and Golden Tate have declared for the NFL draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=4721703

Roy Tucker
12-07-2009, 03:21 PM
What coaching at Notre Dame does that UC doesn't is put you in the pre-season top 10 if you have a halfway-decent team.

And, if it comes down to multiple undefeated teams at the end of the season (like this year), you are on par with the SEC, Big 12, etc. teams instead of smelling their collective tailpipes.

I love Kelly at UC, but I can't blame him for going after the big enchilada. But like the saying goes, when the gods wish to punish us, they grant us our dreams. I'd lay even odds this doesn't work for Kelly or ND.

BRM
12-07-2009, 03:22 PM
I would much, much, much rather coach at Cincinnati than Notre Dame. In fact, if I were a head coach, Notre Dame wouldn't be in my top 50 of programs I'd like to coach at.

Even if ND offered you twice the money?

OnBaseMachine
12-07-2009, 03:26 PM
Even if ND offered you twice the money?

Yep. If I'm making $1.45 million at my current job and Notre Dame offers me $3+ million I'm staying at my current job. $1.45 million is still a ton of money. $1.45 million + happiness is better than $3+ million at a place I can't stand. JMO.

joshnky
12-07-2009, 03:26 PM
I would much, much, much rather coach at Cincinnati than Notre Dame. In fact, if I were a head coach, Notre Dame wouldn't be in my top 50 of programs I'd like to coach at.

I think that we lose sight of the personality it takes to be a great head coach. For the most part, they're all driven, egotistical, and think they're the best and want others to recognize that. Some temper that with some morals but most are driven by a desire to be on top of their profession. Petrino was like that, as are Saban and Urban Meyer. Their ego is part of what makes them great coaches but also draws the ire of spurned fan-bases.

Could Brian Kelly reach the top at Cincy? Maybe, but the path is much shorter if you can succeed at Notre Dame (and the money isn't bad either).

OnBaseMachine
12-07-2009, 03:32 PM
If Kelly leaves I'd strongly consider another Central Michigan coach - Butch Jones. IIRC he runs a similar style of offense to Kelly. Kevin Sumlin would be an awesome hire too.

Matt700wlw
12-07-2009, 03:33 PM
I wonder how much ND will offer him? They're still paying Charlie Weis something like $18 million to go away...

flyer85
12-07-2009, 03:36 PM
I wonder how much ND will offer him? They're still paying Charlie Weis something like $18 million to go away...if they want him ... as much as it takes.

wolfboy
12-07-2009, 03:42 PM
I think that we lose sight of the personality it takes to be a great head coach. For the most part, they're all driven, egotistical, and think they're the best and want others to recognize that. Some temper that with some morals but most are driven by a desire to be on top of their profession. Petrino was like that, as are Saban and Urban Meyer. Their ego is part of what makes them great coaches but also draws the ire of spurned fan-bases.

Could Brian Kelly reach the top at Cincy? Maybe, but the path is much shorter if you can succeed at Notre Dame (and the money isn't bad either).

The top at Notre Dame offers coaching immortality. The top at UC offers... well, uncertainty. Frank Beamer status maybe?

SunDeck
12-07-2009, 03:52 PM
The top at Notre Dame offers coaching immortality. The top at UC offers... well, uncertainty.

At this point it may offer empty hopes of immortality if ND is truly the shell of its former self as people have asserted here. To me, that's the thing Kelly would need to find out in his interview- does he believe the program can return to what it once was? Can an independent still be relevant? Can he attract kids away from top programs with similar academic standards?

I think this interview comes down to ND selling themselves to him just as much as anything.