PDA

View Full Version : UC Football 2009 Season pt. 2



Pages : [1] 2

Caveat Emperor
11-28-2009, 01:51 PM
Continue all discussions of or relating to the University of Cincinnati tackle football program here.

Chip R
11-28-2009, 02:09 PM
As opposed to the touch football program? ;)

Revering4Blue
11-28-2009, 03:12 PM
he players were pleased to dent the rep of another big conference. Illinois isn’t good, but the Big Ten was clearly schooled by a Big East club.

Add this one to UC’s win at Oregon State – which will play Oregon next week for the Pac-10 title and a Rose Bowl appearance – and it’s not hard to see that conference affiliation doesn’t guarantee success the way it used to.

And those who still snicker at the Big East have some homework to do. Who’s clearly better than the Bearcats at this point? Who knows?

Texas, likely title-game participant? Not necessarily, cowboy.

The mighty Longhorns got all they wanted Thursday from a 6-5 Texas A&M team that had lost by a combined 127-24 to two Big 12 partners, Oklahoma and nondescript Kansas State. The Aggies ran up 532 yards on Texas’ supposedly tight defense. If they’d tackled well, they might have won.

That leaves the SEC and its superiority complex. Could UC tame Tim Tebow and beat Florida? Could the Bearcats muscle up with Alabama? I don’t know. And neither do you.

This is why we need a playoff. Not just to identify a true champion. The BCS does that, more often than not. It’s not just about winning and losing, or shouldn’t be. It’s about having the chance. It’s about letting other worthies into the ring. Whether they play in a pedigreed league or not.

“We shouldn’t be looked at as a conference not deserving of its BCS bid,’’ said Kelly.

He was right, but he didn’t take it far enough. UC deserves a BCS bowl, if it beats Pitt next week. It also deserves a puncher’s chance at a title game.

For now, the Bearcats will have to be satisfied with playing Pitt for a likely trip to the Sugar Bowl, where they’d play either Florida or Alabama. Wouldn’t that be interesting?

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091127/COL03/311270057/1082/SPT/Bearcats-deserve-title-shot

paintmered
11-28-2009, 08:32 PM
The Notre Dame/Stanford game has implications for UC. If Stanford wins, then ND is shut out of the Gator Bowl in favor of the Big East #2. If ND wins, then the Big East #2 is headed to the Car Care Bowl instead.

cincrazy
11-28-2009, 10:59 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091127/COL03/311270057/1082/SPT/Bearcats-deserve-title-shot

I'm not sure how the Illinois game puts a dent in the Big 10. Illinois is putrid, and they dropped 37 on UC.

A win is a win, but I don't think this makes the Big 10 look inferior by any stretch.

WMR
11-28-2009, 11:12 PM
Those 'mediocre' 'middle of the road' SEC teams that CE and others were talking about showed the truth of the conference today.

GIDP
11-28-2009, 11:29 PM
Those 'mediocre' 'middle of the road' SEC teams that CE and others were talking about showed the truth of the conference today.

:rolleyes:

George Foster
11-28-2009, 11:48 PM
I'm not sure how the Illinois game puts a dent in the Big 10. Illinois is putrid, and they dropped 37 on UC.

A win is a win, but I don't think this makes the Big 10 look inferior by any stretch.

Inferior compared to who?

paintmered
11-29-2009, 12:27 AM
Now, Rutgers needs to beat WVU to ensure the Gator Bowl doesn't select the 'Eers over a 1-loss UC.

Bottom line, UC needs to beat Pitt because I have a bad feeling that bowl games are all too willing to pass them over. And as ridiculous as it is to think the Big Ten deserves two BCS, the powers that be will select Iowa or Penn State, or even Boise State over UC.

OnBaseMachine
11-29-2009, 12:39 AM
Now, Rutgers needs to beat WVU to ensure the Gator Bowl doesn't select the 'Eers over a 1-loss UC.

Bottom line, UC needs to beat Pitt because I have a bad feeling that bowl games are all too willing to pass them over. And as ridiculous as it is to think the Big Ten deserves two BCS, the powers that be will select Iowa or Penn State, or even Boise State over UC.

Penn State beat only two teams this season with a winning record (Temple and Northwestern). They don't deserve to be anywhere near a BCS bowl, IMO. The same goes for Iowa. It would be a shame if Boise State or Cincy gets passed over in favor of one of those two teams.

reds44
11-29-2009, 01:11 AM
Penn State beat only two teams this season with a winning record (Temple and Northwestern). They don't deserve to be anywhere near a BCS bowl, IMO. The same goes for Iowa. It would be a shame if Boise State or Cincy gets passed over in favor of one of those two teams.
Would a one loss Cincy team be anywhere near the draw that Penn State would? No way.

OnBaseMachine
11-29-2009, 01:24 AM
Would a one loss Cincy team be anywhere near the draw that Penn State would? No way.

I don't care about that stuff. Cincinnati is more deserving of a BCS bowl.

paintmered
11-29-2009, 01:27 AM
I don't care about that stuff. Cincinnati is more deserving of a BCS bowl.

Unfortunately, the bowl system doesn't see it that way. They have bills to pay and money to raise. The (incorrect) perception is that Cincy doesn't travel and so they'll defer to the "established" programs. But hey, Rome wasn't built in a day and UC won't climb the mountain overnight. And even if they do, the national media won't recognize it.

It's hard to break into the good 'ole boys club.

Caveat Emperor
11-29-2009, 02:39 AM
Unfortunately, the bowl system doesn't see it that way. They have bills to pay and money to raise. The (incorrect) perception is that Cincy doesn't travel and so they'll defer to the "established" programs. But hey, Rome wasn't built in a day and UC won't climb the mountain overnight. And even if they do, the national media won't recognize it.

It's hard to break into the good 'ole boys club.

UC will have an opportunity to help themselves out this weekend if they get a lot of fans to Pittsburgh for the game. I know they sold out their allotment of tickets (~4k) about 3 or 4 weeks ago, and it seems like a lot of people are making the drive to go. I'm sure there will be bowl representatives in attendance to note the visitor presence.

I'm not sure it'll matter, but every little bit helps.

Caveat Emperor
11-29-2009, 02:40 AM
Those 'mediocre' 'middle of the road' SEC teams that CE and others were talking about showed the truth of the conference today.

Isn't "looks like crap one week, looks good the next" the very definition of mediocre and middle of the road?

will5979
11-29-2009, 08:23 AM
Now, Rutgers needs to beat WVU to ensure the Gator Bowl doesn't select the 'Eers over a 1-loss UC.

Just beat Pitt and that game will be irrealevant to you.

GAC
11-29-2009, 11:32 AM
Bottom line, UC needs to beat Pitt because I have a bad feeling that bowl games are all too willing to pass them over.


It would be a shame if Boise State or Cincy gets passed over in favor of one of those two teams.


I don't care about that stuff. Cincinnati is more deserving of a BCS bowl.


Unfortunately, the bowl system doesn't see it that way. They have bills to pay and money to raise. The (incorrect) perception is that Cincy doesn't travel and so they'll defer to the "established" programs. But hey, Rome wasn't built in a day and UC won't climb the mountain overnight. And even if they do, the national media won't recognize it.

It's hard to break into the good 'ole boys club.

I agree with everything you gentleman (above) state. In fact, I brought these points up last month on the other Bearcat thread. Especially the remark about the "good 'ole boys club".

Personally, over these many years, I've seen many "smaller" football programs/conferences elevate the quality and competitive level of their play. And that includes conferences like MAC. I think it's great for college football. And the reason some of those conferences have gotten better too is because the larger conferences are playing them and throwing money their way to help them improve. Again though - that's great for college FB as a whole IMO.

It use to be that those "established" powerhouse teams loved to put those "lesser" schools on their schedule because it most likely, for the most part, meant a win. But that has been changing since those programs are starting to elevate themselves. Not a given anymore.

And the Bearcat's program is one such program. Let's be honest - and this is part of the problem that haunts them - they really have never been know as an ESTABLISHED football program. Basketball yes. Football no. They have a HISTORY, as far as football goes; but the program never received the emphasis it has now.

So basically, the Bearcat program is trying to play "catch up".

But I simply commend them for the steps they have taken over the last several years (putting the money into their program, joining the BE in '05) to do what it takes to elevate that football program.

So what more do they have to do to get the recognition they deserve?

Show consistency, and become more established, which will do more to bring them that name recognition. And that is going to take a little more time (sadly).

But even if they were to lose a close game to Pitt next week (biting my tongue), they still deserve a BCS bowl game IMO.

But since they re-adjusted the BCS to give the coaches poll more weight, that is where my "fear" comes from when it comes to programs like the Bearcats, Boise State, and some others.... they'll get left out in the cold, and will get "leap-frogged" by those "established" schools simply because of their name recognition, drawing power, and of course.... MONEY.

I guess the only thing I can say to the Bearcats is keep doing what you're doing.

It ain't gonna happen anytime soon... at least until they show more consistency and a proven track record; but I'd love to see the BCs join the Big 10, and then split that conference into two with a championship game.

But again - that traditional-minded good ole' boys network, especially in the B10, would resist such a change IMO.

It's a turf war. ;)

Chip R
11-29-2009, 11:41 AM
But since they re-adjusted the BCS to give the coaches poll more weight, that is where my "fear" comes from when it comes to programs like the Bearcats, Boise State, and some others.... they'll get left out in the cold, and will get "leap-frogged" by those "established" schools simply because of their name recognition, drawing power, and of course.... MONEY.


The bowl games aren't there to match the best teams up. This isn't a playoff. It's about attendance and ratings. Does UC and/or Boise St. deserve a BCS berth over someone like Iowa or Penn St.? Probably. But they don't care about that. You think a BCS bowl wouldn't take Notre Dame if they could?

Cyclone792
12-03-2009, 10:59 PM
As Big East Championship day approaches, we've got a big group getting ready to head out tomorrow night to Pittsburgh. Anybody else going?

Meanwhile, Oregon State has a 23-21 lead early in the second half over Oregon in the Civil War. Boy would it be nice for the Beavers to pull this one out so UC could say "hey, we beat the Pac-10 Champ in their building!"

Cyclone792
12-04-2009, 08:28 AM
Per Colley's Matrix:

A UC win + Texas loss = UC moving up from 2nd to 4th in the Colley computer rankings. TCU would remain 5th.

The other computers would likely show similar results with UC moving up 1 to 2 spots and TCU most likely not moving at all. This would give UC a massive boost in the computer rankings over TCU, easily enough to push them over TCU in the BCS.

Essentially, UC now has three bowl scenarios:

UC win + Texas loss = Pasadena
UC win + Texas win = New Orleans most likely
UC loss = A screw job most likely

Eric_the_Red
12-04-2009, 10:45 AM
Essentially, UC now has three bowl scenarios:

UC win + Texas loss = Pasadena
UC win + Texas win = New Orleans most likely
UC loss = A screw job most likely

I'll take door #1 please. If #3 happens, I may quit following college football after my first season of really following it.

Redlegs23
12-04-2009, 10:49 AM
How pathetic would it be for the entire bowl system if UC ends up 11-1 and ranked in the top 10 but still plays in the Meineke Car Care Bowl.

wolfboy
12-04-2009, 10:58 AM
How pathetic would it be for the entire bowl system if UC ends up 11-1 and ranked in the top 10 but still plays in the Meineke Car Care Bowl.

There's some serious potential for insult to injury here - the above scenario happens as Kelly leaves for ND.

Roy Tucker
12-04-2009, 11:03 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091203/COL03/312030085/1007/SPT0101/Doc%20%20It%20shouldn%20t%20be%20this%20way?GID=by QHfZ99NbtiYFOJ33cVz5idNufkvYIOs1ephsjpyic%3D

Chip R
12-04-2009, 11:09 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091203/COL03/312030085/1007/SPT0101/Doc%20%20It%20shouldn%20t%20be%20this%20way?GID=by QHfZ99NbtiYFOJ33cVz5idNufkvYIOs1ephsjpyic%3D


Interesting column but if you push that signing date back, then you have all this speculation up through the bowl game. So take the last couple of weeks, double it and take away stories about preparation for the upcoming opponent. The current situation isn't ideal but maybe the quicker the cut the better. That way you get all the speculation over sooner.

SunDeck
12-04-2009, 11:14 AM
“It’s not comfortable for me,’’ Kelly said Tuesday. “It’s not comfortable for those involved. (But) it’s the reality of it. The only thing I can control is the message every day to our football players, how we can become champions. I can’t handle all these other things out there.’’

Well, he could, actually. Kelly could do what Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops and Jon Gruden have done and say publicly thanks, but no thanks. That’d make everyone comfortable. It’s his business how he handles it. Though it seems apparent that if an invitation arrives, BK’d be happy to leave for the Irish pub.

Come on, Doc, it's not hard to figure this one out. That quote is meaningless- it's boiler plate.

Let's say he really wants to stay; it is in his interest to get UC to make firm promises to inject the resources that will make it the "destination" program he has described. If they do that, he's firmly in position to take the program to the heights that will culminate with renaming Short Vine "Brian Kelly Way".

Let's say he really wants the ND job; it is in his interest to make UC put together an attractive counter offer that will maximize his gains.

Cyclone792
12-04-2009, 11:45 AM
I'll take door #1 please. If #3 happens, I may quit following college football after my first season of really following it.


How pathetic would it be for the entire bowl system if UC ends up 11-1 and ranked in the top 10 but still plays in the Meineke Car Care Bowl.


I think the most likely scenario is door #2 as I believe UC will win tomorrow, but I also believe Texas is going to beat Nebraska. Of course, that's why they play the games so it will hopefully be exciting to celebrate a UC win while cheering loudly for Nebraska.

If UC would lose, I'd still hope for a BCS at-large, but I wouldn't expect it. I'd probably relucantly be ok with a Gator Bowl invite should that happen, but I wouldn't be thrilled. At least the Gator Bowl is one of the better non-BCS bowl options, and at least it is on New Year's Day.

The Car Care Bowl would just be a slap in the face. For one thing, this is the same bowl that screwed over UC two years ago when they selected Connecticut and forced UC to go to Birmingham for the Papajohns.com Bowl. And secondly, it's a bowl game that's acceptable for a team that is 8-4, perhaps 9-3. As Redlegs23 stated, sending an 11-1 potentially top 10 team there would be a joke.

Roy Tucker
12-04-2009, 12:16 PM
Come on, Doc, it's not hard to figure this one out. That quote is meaningless- it's boiler plate.

Let's say he really wants to stay; it is in his interest to get UC to make firm promises to inject the resources that will make it the "destination" program he has described. If they do that, he's firmly in position to take the program to the heights that will culminate with renaming Short Vine "Brian Kelly Way".

Let's say he really wants the ND job; it is in his interest to make UC put together an attractive counter offer that will maximize his gains.

So why did Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and whoever else come out saying they are staying at their schools? Are they stupid or are they lying? Or is it they don't play big league hardball with their adminstrations (for whatever reason)?

Kelly says these foggy things and I have a hard time reading his tea leaves. I think the bald truth is that no matter what UC does, Kelly will go to ND if its offered.

acredsfan
12-04-2009, 12:28 PM
So why did Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and whoever else come out saying they are staying at their schools? Are they stupid or are they lying? Or is it they don't play big league hardball with their adminstrations (for whatever reason)?

Kelly says these foggy things and I have a hard time reading his tea leaves. I think the bald truth is that no matter what UC does, Kelly will go to ND if its offered.Brian Kelly is at a school with no separate practice fields, a stadium that holds only 35,000 fans, and a school whose fan base is a major question. I can see where the hardball argument has some major tread. Stoops, Meyer and the like aren't fighting to get better facilities or more money, so it stands to reason that they can make the "I'm staying" statements much more easily than Brian can in his situation. I'd love to see him stay, but I can't say I'd blame him for leaving. I just hope UC does everything it can to get the job done, with or without BK.

Eric_the_Red
12-04-2009, 12:49 PM
Imagine if UC loses, they are sent to the Car Care Bowl and BK leaves....how far does that set back the program? What would the crowds look like next year? What does that do to recruiting?

I don't think you can overstate how big the game tomorrow is.

SeeinRed
12-04-2009, 12:56 PM
So why did Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and whoever else come out saying they are staying at their schools? Are they stupid or are they lying? Or is it they don't play big league hardball with their adminstrations (for whatever reason)?

Kelly says these foggy things and I have a hard time reading his tea leaves. I think the bald truth is that no matter what UC does, Kelly will go to ND if its offered.


Meyer and Stoops are definately at colleges with more to offer in the way of Facilities and sallaries than UC right now. Kelly definately has a reason to play hardball while they really don't have to at this point. Kelly might want to go to ND but not want to lose the oppurtunity to gain at UC if ND doesn't offer him the job. I just don't think Meyer and Stoops are in the same situation as Kelly so its comparing apples to oranges.

Roy Tucker
12-04-2009, 01:01 PM
Brian Kelly is at a school with no separate practice fields, a stadium that holds only 35,000 fans, and a school whose fan base is a major question. I can see where the hardball argument has some major tread. Stoops, Meyer and the like aren't fighting to get better facilities or more money, so it stands to reason that they can make the "I'm staying" statements much more easily than Brian can in his situation. I'd love to see him stay, but I can't say I'd blame him for leaving. I just hope UC does everything it can to get the job done, with or without BK.

That's a good read on the situation. I'd agree.

Interesting article at SI on Urban Meyer. Intense guy.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1163435/index.htm

Reds4Life
12-04-2009, 01:12 PM
Imagine if UC loses, they are sent to the Car Care Bowl and BK leaves....how far does that set back the program? What would the crowds look like next year? What does that do to recruiting?

I don't think you can overstate how big the game tomorrow is.

I'm a UC fan, but I think it sets the program back years. The fans, and boosters who donate money, really believe BK when he says he's staying. If he leaves, they are going to be bitter. I'll be bitter. It sounds petty, but if he goes to Notre Dame I hope he falls on his face like the past 3 coaches they hired. I think it would be fitting if he got canned and ends up back in a non-BCS conference like the MAC. Yeah it's spiteful, but that is how I'd feel, just being honest.

As for the bowl, an 11-1 team, that would probably still be in the top 10, playing in the car care bowl would be a complete joke. If UC had the money (which they don't) and they don't get a BCS at large and and get invited to that game, I'd decline to play in it. It's the day after Christmas, most fans aren't going to want, or be able, to travel to that game given the date.

If UC loses, and doesn't get a BCS at large, I think BK will use that as his excuse to leave. In reality he'd be leaving for one thing, money, but he'd claim he can't compete for a national championship here.

Caveat Emperor
12-04-2009, 01:14 PM
Imagine if UC loses, they are sent to the Car Care Bowl and BK leaves....how far does that set back the program? What would the crowds look like next year? What does that do to recruiting?

I don't think you can overstate how big the game tomorrow is.

Even if the new hire is close to Brian Kelly's caliber (top-25 coach, able to maximize potential of 3-star level recruits, and excellent ability to work alums and administration), the program is probably going to be set back 2 or 3 years.

If the next hire is a total whiff (Kragthorp or Zook style), the program will be set back a decade (possibly more) easily.

It's amazing to contemplate, but there exists two very real possibilities for UC Football -- the "nightmare" and the "dream" scenario. Both are, to a certain extent, equally likely:

DREAM: Beat Pitt. Texas loses. UC accepts bad to National Title Game in Pasadena. Notre Dame hires elsewhere (not wanting to wait until January)

NIGHTMARE: Lose to Pitt. Kelly announced as head coach of Notre Dame. Bid accepted to the Muffler Bowl in Charollte.

This weekend, on paper, has the potential to be the greatest weekend in the history of UC Football and the potential to be the worst weekend in the history of UC Football.

Further, there's a very real chance that this weekend and this game will represent the highest point UC Football ever reaches -- undefeated, 1 win @ Pitt & 1 Texas loss away from the National Championship game. Tons of teams, even BCS level teams, never reach this points. Many programs haven't seen this point since the color TV was invented.

It's crazy, but that's what this weekend is for UC. Could be the weekend that launches the program into elite status. Could be the weekend where it all crashes and burns, destined never to reach this height again. As a sports fan, it's absolutely amazing. As a UC fan, it's absolutely terrifying.

LoganBuck
12-04-2009, 01:58 PM
Even if the new hire is close to Brian Kelly's caliber (top-25 coach, able to maximize potential of 3-star level recruits, and excellent ability to work alums and administration), the program is probably going to be set back 2 or 3 years.

If the next hire is a total whiff (Kragthorp or Zook style), the program will be set back a decade (possibly more) easily.

It's amazing to contemplate, but there exists two very real possibilities for UC Football -- the "nightmare" and the "dream" scenario. Both are, to a certain extent, equally likely:

DREAM: Beat Pitt. Texas loses. UC accepts bad to National Title Game in Pasadena. Notre Dame hires elsewhere (not wanting to wait until January)

NIGHTMARE: Lose to Pitt. Kelly announced as head coach of Notre Dame. Bid accepted to the Muffler Bowl in Charollte.

This weekend, on paper, has the potential to be the greatest weekend in the history of UC Football and the potential to be the worst weekend in the history of UC Football.

Further, there's a very real chance that this weekend and this game will represent the highest point UC Football ever reaches -- undefeated, 1 win @ Pitt & 1 Texas loss away from the National Championship game. Tons of teams, even BCS level teams, never reach this points. Many programs haven't seen this point since the color TV was invented.

It's crazy, but that's what this weekend is for UC. Could be the weekend that launches the program into elite status. Could be the weekend where it all crashes and burns, destined never to reach this height again. As a sports fan, it's absolutely amazing. As a UC fan, it's absolutely terrifying.

Fortune favors the bold.

Redlegs23
12-04-2009, 02:09 PM
CE, good post. Reading how big this weekend is for UC football makes my stomach turn. It will not be easy sleeping tonight...unless I drink enough cold ones, then I typically don't have a problem.

will5979
12-04-2009, 02:34 PM
I don't think you can overstate how big the game tomorrow is.

Do us all a favor in the Big East and beat those d0ucheb@g$! The BE needs you guys to go undefeated, and like you said that game is huge for your program. If sPitt happens to win you're right, it could set you guys back like they did us in 2007. Trust me tomorrow at noon I'm not only an Eer fan but also a Bearcat fan! And of course I'll be one in your bowl game as well.

will5979
12-04-2009, 02:39 PM
This weekend, on paper, has the potential to be the greatest weekend in the history of UC Football and the potential to be the worst weekend in the history of UC Football.

Further, there's a very real chance that this weekend and this game will represent the highest point UC Football ever reaches -- undefeated, 1 win @ Pitt & 1 Texas loss away from the National Championship game. Tons of teams, even BCS level teams, never reach this points. Many programs haven't seen this point since the color TV was invented.

I know what you guys are feeling...I remember this 2 years ago when we literally destroyed UConn and was ranked 1st in the Coaches poll (IMO the only one that should matter) for a week until Pitt dashed our MNC hopes and set our program back 8-15 years. Hope you guys don't have to witness the horror us WV fans have to the hands of sPitt and Rodrigeuz.

LoganBuck
12-04-2009, 03:05 PM
I know what you guys are feeling...I remember this 2 years ago when we literally destroyed UConn and was ranked 1st in the Coaches poll (IMO the only one that should matter) for a week until Pitt dashed our MNC hopes and set our program back 8-15 years. Hope you guys don't have to witness the horror us WV fans have to the hands of sPitt and Rodrigeuz.

Very true, and a very good comp for what could happen to UC. That loss to Pitt gutted the WV program.

Boston Red
12-04-2009, 03:35 PM
That loss to Pitt gutted the WV program.

WV won the Fiesta Bowl a few weeks later and is likely to finish up a 9-3 season tomorrow. Let's not go crazy.

will5979
12-05-2009, 11:59 AM
WV won the Fiesta Bowl a few weeks later and is likely to finish up a 9-3 season tomorrow. Let's not go crazy.

Well in WVU standards for 80s and 90s an 8-3 record was great...in this decade it is slightly above average. Probably a C+ if you are grading.

jimbo
12-05-2009, 12:12 PM
Very true, and a very good comp for what could happen to UC. That loss to Pitt gutted the WV program.

It also gutted the Michigan program. ;)

will5979
12-05-2009, 12:57 PM
It also gutted the Michigan program. ;)

Well on the bright side it couldn't have happened to a better program!

At least one positive came out of this!

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 12:59 PM
The officials are making themselves known too much in this game.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Last team with the ball wins. Also, it occurs to me that ND just fired an offensive genius who couldn't keep other teams from scoring.

jimbo
12-05-2009, 01:09 PM
Last team with the ball wins.

I'm not so sure, I think if Pitt can get any kind of considerable lead, with their ability to control the clock with their running game, UC is in trouble.

dougdirt
12-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Well, today officially sucks.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 01:15 PM
I'm not so sure, I think if Pitt can get any kind of considerable lead, with their ability to control the clock with their running game, UC is in trouble.

I'd say UC already is in trouble. Not looking good :(

Caveat Emperor
12-05-2009, 01:16 PM
11-1, and headed to the Muffler Bowl.

I am now officially certain that Brian Kelly will be announced for the Irish on Monday.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 01:16 PM
If UC doesn't have guys who fit the 3-4 defense upfront then they shouldn't even run a 3-4 defense.

joshnky
12-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Also, it occurs to me that ND just fired an offensive genius who couldn't keep other teams from scoring.

A positive for UC fans. Kelley might be coaching himself out of contention for the Notre Dame job on the other side of Pittsburgh's one-man domination.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Agreed, they only make a stop when they blitz.

jimbo
12-05-2009, 01:18 PM
I'd say UC already is in trouble. Not looking good :(

The key now is to stop Pitt's running game. The Bearcats offense is more than potent enough to overcome the deficit, they just need the opportunities.

Caveat Emperor
12-05-2009, 01:19 PM
Hate to say it, but they're playing like a team that expects to be coach-less in 48 hours. Distracted and with zero fire.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:21 PM
A positive for UC fans. Kelley might be coaching himself out of contention for the Notre Dame job on the other side of Pittsburgh's one-man domination.

I didn't want to put it quite that way...
At this point UC is getting pushed around a lot up front. No surprise there, but if they can't start halting the throw, they'll be in trouble.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 01:26 PM
That should be game

Reds Fanatic
12-05-2009, 01:26 PM
This game has turned into a nightmare for UC. A blocked punt and Pitt takes over on the 2.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 01:28 PM
Couldn't the punter have ran into the end zone with the ball after it was blocked and took a safety instead of giving them the ball at the 2 yard line?

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 01:28 PM
Jake ROgers is an idiot. Seriously.

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 01:29 PM
Ouch.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 01:29 PM
Hate to say it, but they're playing like a team that expects to be coach-less in 48 hours. Distracted and with zero fire.

I disagree. It's just Pitt has everything going right for them.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Well, this is a disaster.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm not so sure, I think if Pitt can get any kind of considerable lead, with their ability to control the clock with their running game, UC is in trouble.

OK, there's Mardy playing some UC football at least.

Reds Fanatic
12-05-2009, 01:33 PM
Gilyard with a huge 99 yd TD kickoff return

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 01:33 PM
Big block in the back to spring that one.

redhawkfish
12-05-2009, 01:36 PM
Pitt channeling Steelers kick return coverage this year!

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:39 PM
29 carries for Lewis? :eek:

CTA513
12-05-2009, 01:40 PM
Pike with another INT

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 01:41 PM
What? Tony Pike choking in another big game? You don't say.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:41 PM
This last minute is sick.

redhawkfish
12-05-2009, 01:41 PM
Terrible throw exchange by the QB's!

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 01:42 PM
So is this the opposite of Tresselball?

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 01:42 PM
This is one of the worst officiated games I have seen this year.

jimbo
12-05-2009, 01:45 PM
So is this the opposite of Tresselball?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Tressel would have run the clock out and ended the half, and he would have gotten a lot of flack from fans. Pitt just showed us why sometimes you just have to make the smart and safe decision. Pitt really dodged a bullet.

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 01:45 PM
Kelly kind of bashes the kicker in exit interview. Not good.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 01:46 PM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Tressel would have run the clock out and ended the half, and he would have gotten a lot of flack from fans. Pitt just showed us why sometimes you just have to make the smart and safe decision. Pitt really dodged a bullet.

Yeah, and that stuff works against Big 10 teams. Not against USC and the SEC.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 01:47 PM
Kelly kind of bashes the kicker in exit interview. Not good.

Agreed, most kickers can kick it that far. It's low percentage, but whether it's a lower percentage than a hail mary is the coach's call.

jimbo
12-05-2009, 01:49 PM
Yeah, and that stuff works against Big 10 teams. Not against USC and the SEC.

Until Weinstadt decided to go for it after the interception, Pitt was playing just like a Big 10 team.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 01:51 PM
Nice job by Mr. Kelly throwing Rogers under the bus. Classy.

6-4-3
12-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Stunned by that halftime interview. Wow.

jimbo
12-05-2009, 01:58 PM
What was he throwing him under the bus for? I missed it.

Reds4Life
12-05-2009, 01:59 PM
Punk move by Kelly.

Rogers isn't the head coach, Kelly is. If you think he can't make the kick then don't send him out there to kick it.

The field conditions suck, the weather sucks, and given both of those there aren't many kickers who can hit that 55 yard attempt.

Don't blame the kicker because you made the wrong call, Brian. Grow up.

LoganBuck
12-05-2009, 02:06 PM
Is this the first time this year that Cincinnati has trailed at half time?

dougdirt
12-05-2009, 02:07 PM
Agreed, most kickers can kick it that far. It's low percentage, but whether it's a lower percentage than a hail mary is the coach's call.
That would have been the longest made FG in that stadiums history by 4 yards.... and NFL guys play there. You throw to the endzone. There is no reason Kelly should have allowed that kick to happen.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 02:12 PM
Collaros coming in.

FInally, the best move Kelly has made all day.

dougdirt
12-05-2009, 02:14 PM
Collaros coming in.

FInally, the best move Kelly has made all day.

I get the move, but I don't blame Pike at all. His line isn't blocking, his guys aren't getting open and when they do, they aren't catching the ball.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Is this the first time this year that Cincinnati has trailed at half time?

Yes. The ball will be in the hands of Collaros now.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 02:15 PM
I get the move, but I don't blame Pike at all. His line isn't blocking, his guys aren't getting open and when they do, they aren't catching the ball.

I agree. They just needed to change their offense though.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 02:26 PM
31-24 Pitt after Pike hits a open Gilyard for 68 yards.

texasdave
12-05-2009, 02:27 PM
TD from Pike to Gilyard and the Bearcats are back in it.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 02:34 PM
I think Dion Lewis tired himself out. He's been lights out today but is starting to fade. UC gets the ball back.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 02:37 PM
WTF is Pike doing? He's almost single-handedly costing them this game.

Good lord.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 02:37 PM
Pike tosses it up for anyone to get for this 3rd INT

dougdirt
12-05-2009, 02:45 PM
I went and put on my UC hat. Next play? INT for UC.

dougdirt
12-05-2009, 02:47 PM
This sucks.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 02:51 PM
38-24 Pitt

UCs offense had plenty of chances to tie the game but are now 14 points behind.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 02:56 PM
Bearcats start off with good field position and Pike follows it up by nearly throwing his 4th INT.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Pike to Woods makes it 38-30 Pitt after UC misses the extra point

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 02:58 PM
No matter what happens, UC doesn't deserve to win this game at all.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 03:04 PM
I just don't have much faith in Tony Pike on this drive. Too much pressure. I hope I'm wrong.

SunDeck
12-05-2009, 03:06 PM
No matter what happens, UC doesn't deserve to win this game at all.

I disagree. To play that badly in one half and still win would be impressive to me.

redhawkfish
12-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Wow! Tie game!

paintmered
12-05-2009, 03:14 PM
TIE GAME!!

CTA513
12-05-2009, 03:14 PM
38-38 after Pead runs for a TD and Gilyard catches the 2 point conversion

Reds Fanatic
12-05-2009, 03:15 PM
What a comeback by UC. Great game.

CTA513
12-05-2009, 03:26 PM
Pitt with a TD to make it 44-38 after Pitt misses the extra point

CTA513
12-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Pike to Binns ties the game and the extra point gives UC a 45-44 lead
around 30 seconds left on the clock and Pitt has 2 timeouts so this isn't over yet.

Reds Fanatic
12-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Wow what a game! 45-44 UC.

AccordinglyReds
12-05-2009, 03:34 PM
Excellent game so far.... :)

Finish with a victory....

CTA513
12-05-2009, 03:39 PM
UC should win 45-44 after Pike takes a knee.

It looked like UC went with a 4 man defensive line on that last Pitt possession.

texasdave
12-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Wwwwwooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

texasdave
12-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Best. Game. Ever. Yayyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!

texasdave
12-05-2009, 03:41 PM
I am now officially the world's biggest Nebraska Cornhusker fan.

Scrap Irony
12-05-2009, 03:42 PM
Cincinnati fans should never complain about the officials again. While they're not the reason UC won, they certainly didn't hurt.

On another note, who was the last Top Five team with this poor a defense?

paintmered
12-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Oh. My. God.

I'm just...speechless. BCS BABY!!!!

Roy Tucker
12-05-2009, 03:45 PM
Oh. My. God.

I'm just...speechless. BCS BABY!!!!

That's exactly what I was going to say.

I can't believe they won that game.

AccordinglyReds
12-05-2009, 03:46 PM
Can hear honking and yelling from my bedroom :)

paintmered
12-05-2009, 03:48 PM
I'm surprised my neighbors haven't called the cops on me. I'm even more surprised I didn't have a stroke during that.

joshnky
12-05-2009, 03:51 PM
Awful coaching job by Wannstedt. He burnt Lewis with nearly 30 carries in the first half but failed to mix in Ray Graham at all. Why he would keep handing it off to a guy running on fumes is beyond my ability to understand.

will5979
12-05-2009, 03:51 PM
CONGRATS! Thank you so much for beating Pitt! Good luck in your BCS game and again thank you for beating those b@$t@rds!

MWM
12-05-2009, 03:55 PM
Congrats to the Bearcats. They absolutely deserve to play for the national championship. Do they deserve it more than Florida/Alabama, Texas, or TCU? No. But they deserve it just as much. It's a travesty that they won't be able to.

SeeinRed
12-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Cincinnati fans should never complain about the officials again. While they're not the reason UC won, they certainly didn't hurt.

On another note, who was the last Top Five team with this poor a defense?


The officials certianly missed a lot of calls on Pitt also. Probably bigger plays. Talk about looking for reasons to complain. :rolleyes: I'd say Pitt benifitted equally or more so than UC.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 04:18 PM
I'm now the biggest Husker fan on the planet.

Caveat Emperor
12-05-2009, 04:22 PM
It took me 20 minutes to even move off the couch -- I had to watch the last drive on DVR 2 or 3 times to prove to myself it actually happened.

Wow.

I'm just stunned. What an amazing game.

Caveat Emperor
12-05-2009, 04:22 PM
Oh yeah --

GO HUSKERS!!!!

GIDP
12-05-2009, 04:49 PM
Congrats to the Bearcats. They absolutely deserve to play for the national championship. Do they deserve it more than Florida/Alabama, Texas, or TCU? No. But they deserve it just as much. It's a travesty that they won't be able to.
They deserve it more than Texas and TCU both.

GIDP
12-05-2009, 04:50 PM
Cincinnati fans should never complain about the officials again. While they're not the reason UC won, they certainly didn't hurt.

On another note, who was the last Top Five team with this poor a defense?

the D is so bad they just went undefeated.

DTCromer
12-05-2009, 04:54 PM
the D is so bad they just went undefeated.

Come on. THe D is average, AT BEST. They went undefeated primarily because of their offense.

ALso, I'd like to apologize to Tony Pike for having no faith in the young fellow. You proved me wrong today.

paintmered
12-05-2009, 04:55 PM
Armon Binns caught that final TD pass with a separated shoulder.

dabvu2498
12-05-2009, 05:09 PM
Points against:
Florida-118
Bama-130
TCU-149
Texas-185
Boise-223
UC-249

Points for:
Boise-532
Texas-516
TCU-488
UC-478
Florida-438
Bama-380

Differential:
TCU +339
Texas +331
Florida +320
Boise +309
Bama +250
UC +229

Caveat Emperor
12-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Points against:
Florida-118
Bama-130
TCU-149
Texas-185
Boise-223
UC-249

Points for:
Boise-532
Texas-516
TCU-488
UC-478
Florida-438
Bama-380

Differential:
TCU +339
Texas +331
Florida +320
Boise +309
Bama +250
UC +229

I wish UC played Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, San Diego State, UNLV, Texas State, SMU, Air Force and Virginia.

There are many stats that back up an argument that TCU is better than UC. Point differential ain't one of them.

MWM
12-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Yeah, I do have to be honest that I think TCU is a better team than UC. Of course, I am basing that one one game. I've seen UC play 4 times this year and TCU only once. But in that game, they looked like a legitimately great team that could play with just about anyone. I went in expeticing to see a team finding a way to win games and I wound up seeing a REALLY good team. If they played UC on neutral ground and I was forced to make a bet on the winner, I'd have to go with TCU. They're legit. That's not a knock on UC.

dabvu2498
12-05-2009, 06:31 PM
I wish UC played Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, San Diego State, UNLV, Texas State, SMU, Air Force and Virginia.

There are many stats that back up an argument that TCU is better than UC. Point differential ain't one of them.

That's not the point I was trying to make, but OK. SEMO, Miami (OH), Syracuse, Louisville, Illinois, UConn, and Rutgers/USF really won't make anyone quake in their boots either.

The point I was trying to make is that of all those numbers, there's one that stands out to me a bit: 249. That defense gives up some points, particularly compared to Those top 4 teams.

redsmetz
12-05-2009, 06:58 PM
I had to chuckle while visiting my Mom in the hospital where she's recovering from a mild heart attack. We watched the game in her room and when UC messed something up, I said they were going to give us a heart attack. Mom said she'd already had hers earlier in the week. Still has her sense of humor.

cincrazy
12-05-2009, 07:03 PM
Undefeated is undefeated.

How many thought George Mason could make a run to the Final Four a few years ago? Nobody. Yet they got the chance, and they cashed in on it. Cincinnati is unlikely to get a chance to play with the big boys for it all.

I'm not a Bearcats fan. But that fact sucks.

Spring~Fields
12-05-2009, 07:38 PM
Congratulations UC and UC fans that was a great game today and great season. UC is a very fun team to watch!

GIDP
12-05-2009, 07:56 PM
I dont think anyone would get me to believe TCU or Texas are better teams than UC.

dougdirt
12-05-2009, 08:28 PM
This sucks.

This guy is not smart. :D

HeatherC1212
12-05-2009, 09:11 PM
This thread is hilarious to read after the game is long over, LOL :laugh:

And for the record, you haven't really followed a football game until you've been sitting at Redsfest listening to the coaches Q&A session and keep being interupted by the game updates and it ends up being put on the big screen because the coaches can't pay attention to anything either, LOL :p:

Good job UC and thanks for giving an entire auditorium full of Reds fans very large heart attacks today, LOL :laugh:

vaticanplum
12-05-2009, 09:35 PM
My family came into town and for a while we thought this had been a waste. Best game I've ever been to, in any sport, hands down. Man.

redsmetz -- best wishes to your mom.

GIDP
12-05-2009, 11:34 PM
I still say UC is better than Texas and the BCS computers agree with me :O

paintmered
12-05-2009, 11:47 PM
I still say UC is better than Texas and the BCS computers agree with me :O

The establishment wants to see Texas, so Texas it will be. It sucks getting Auburned. It really really sucks. :(

GIDP
12-05-2009, 11:54 PM
The establishment wants to see Texas, so Texas it will be. It sucks getting Auburned. It really really sucks. :(

Its so true. If MLB ran ran by Coaches poles the Mets would have been in the playoffs the last 3 years.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:01 AM
Can I throw a question up here for people to answer honestly.

If UC was in the Big 12 what would their record be?

And even If UC was in the SEC what would their record be?

I know they are not in those conferences, but in this crazy system we have sometimes you have to think outside the box to rank teams.

Absolutely they have done every thing they could this year and I tip my hat to them...but if they were facing Texas (who like UC did everything they could this year) and I had to bet my house on it, well, lets just say I'd bet on the Horns. Not looking for a fight cause thats pointless, but I just want to know how you guys think UC would do in a "higher tier" conference.

Boston Red
12-06-2009, 12:03 AM
They'd be the best team in the Big XII not named Texas, and they'd be the best team in the SEC not named Alabama or Florida. Would they be better than any of those teams? Hard to say. That's why every other major sport in the world decides their champion on the field.

Reds4Life
12-06-2009, 12:05 AM
Can I throw a question up here for people to answer honestly.

If UC was in the Big 12 what would their record be?

And even If UC was in the SEC what would their record be?

I know they are not in those conferences, but in this crazy system we have sometimes you have to think outside the box to rank teams.

Absolutely they have done every thing they could this year and I tip my hat to them...but if they were facing Texas (who like UC did everything they could this year) and I had to bet my house on it, well, lets just say I'd bet on the Horns. Not looking for a fight cause thats pointless, but I just want to know how you guys think UC would do in a "higher tier" conference.

Sorry, but if that game is the best the Big 12 has to offer, UC and some other Big East teams would have done very very well. Nebraska has one of the most inept offenses I've seen in a long time, yet they make the title game?

Texas is over rated, by a lot. They are going to get smoked by Alabama, it won't even be close.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:10 AM
Sorry, but if that game is the best the Big 12 has to offer, UC and some other Big East teams would have done very very well. Nebraska has one of the most inept offenses I've seen in a long time, yet they make the title game?

Texas is over rated, by a lot. They are going to get smoked by Alabama, it won't even be close.

Do you think UC would run the table, or for that matter be odds-on-favorite to run the table in those conferences?

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:11 AM
Do you think UC would run the table, or for that matter be odds-on-favorite to run the table in those conferences?

Considering Florida has never had an undefeated season, UC does not run the table in the SEC.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:14 AM
Considering Florida has never had an undefeated season, UC does not run the table in the SEC.

Not sure what that shows, as only one team in the SEC goes to the BCS title game, and that team is yes indeed, undefeated.

OnBaseMachine
12-06-2009, 12:14 AM
Great season by Cincy. Too bad the BcS will screw them. College football needs a playoff.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:14 AM
Not sure what that shows, as only one team in the SEC goes to the BCS title game, and that team is yes indeed, undefeated.

What it shows is that UC probably doesn't go undefeated in the SEC because it happens so rarely.

Just because an SEC team did it this year doesn't make the point irrelevant.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:18 AM
What it shows is that UC probably doesn't go undefeated in the SEC because it happens so rarely.

Umm how many teams from the Big East have ran the conference table lately (hint...less than (or at best equal to) the SEC).

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:25 AM
What it shows is that UC probably doesn't go undefeated in the SEC because it happens so rarely.

Just because an SEC team did it this year doesn't make the point irrelevant.

By my estimate it is equally rare over the past 6-7 years (and lets face it the conferences were drastically different 10 years back) for a team to go undefeated in the SEC and Big East...thats why I don't get your point.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:28 AM
By my estimate it is equally rare over the past 6-7 years (and lets face it the conferences were drastically different 10 years back) for a team to go undefeated in the SEC and Big East...thats why I don't get your point.

The point is, it's tough to expect any team to "run the table" in any conference, including the Big East or SEC.

Let the fact that UC was able to accomplish that in the Big East be enough. I don't know if they do that in the SEC and neither do you. It's all a meaningless hypothetical exercise intended to devalue UC's accomplishment.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:29 AM
The point is, it's tough to expect any team to "run the table" in any conference, including the Big East or SEC.

Let the fact that UC was able to accomplish that in the Big East be enough. I don't know if they do that in the SEC and neither do you. It's all a meaningless hypothetical exercise intended to devalue UC's accomplishment.

Its all hypothetical and I mentioned that in my question. You pulled the difficulty of going undefeated in the SEC into this, and I'm not seeing you back it up.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:31 AM
You pulled the difficulty of going undefeated in the SEC into this, and I'm not seeing you back it up.

I did?


And even If UC was in the SEC what would their record be?

Razor Shines
12-06-2009, 12:34 AM
UC winning only by 1 pt was the difference in me finishing 2nd instead of 1st in my office pool this week, so Hook 'em Horns!

GIDP
12-06-2009, 12:34 AM
Texas only competition in the big 12 was a nebraska team who couldnt do anything other than hope and pray for 5 yard completion.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:35 AM
I did?

I asked could they go undefeated in the SEC.

You brought in the difficulty factor to go undefeated in the SEC (which isn't really the case).

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:36 AM
I asked could they go undefeated in the SEC.

You brought in the difficulty factor to go undefeated in the SEC (which isn't really the case).

My answer was they probably wouldn't go undefeated and then added some historical perspective to it.

GIDP
12-06-2009, 12:38 AM
The most frustrating thing about the BCS this year is that Florida and Texas both were given such a huge advantage by preseason rankings. Not only did UC have to play well and win out they had to some how magically beat the preconcieved notions that other teams were better from the start. BCS needs to back off their rankings or remove a little bit of the human side of it.

The computers have said Cincy was 3rd all season pretty much but coaches had them 5th. What is the point of the computers?

Razor Shines
12-06-2009, 12:38 AM
Texas only competition in the big 12 was a nebraska team who couldnt do anything other than hope and pray for 5 yard completion.

Which is why they only got 4 FGs. They do have this one guy that plays when the other team has the ball........he's kinda good.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:39 AM
ESPN just compared the resumes of Texas, TCU and UC without revealing the teams.

Holtz picked UC because they've beaten more ranked teams, Mark May picked Texas because their opponents had a higher winning percentage.

Holtz later went onto say that we might have a completely different situation had UC or TCU started the season ranked in the Top 10 like Texas.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:40 AM
My answer was they probably wouldn't go undefeated and then added some historical perspective to it.

And all I did, what point out that since Big East realignment, exactly the same number of Big East teams have gone undefeated as teams in the SEC have.

And the SEC is the crown jewel of the conferences right now, so I and most would agree UC wouldn't go undefeated there.

But do you think they would survive the Big 12 conference unscathed? All hypothetical of course, but thats all that there is to work with when comparing UC to UT.

GIDP
12-06-2009, 12:40 AM
Which is why they only got 4 FGs. They do have this one guy that plays when the other team has the ball........he's kinda good.

My point is Nebraska was only competition in that league and they had half a team. If Bradford wasnt hurt maybe that conference might be a little more important but when your 2nd best team is out there hoping that they can win with FGs it doesnt leave a good impression.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:41 AM
We can bicker about this and that, but we can all agree this current system is terribly flawed.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 12:41 AM
And all I did, what point out that since Big East realignment, exactly the same number of Big East teams have gone undefeated as teams in the SEC have.

And the SEC is the crown jewel of the conferences right now, so I and most would agree UC wouldn't go undefeated there.

But do you think they would survive the Big 12 conference unscathed? All hypothetical of course, but thats all that there is to work with when comparing UC to UT.

In the South? 50/50. I definitely think they run the table in the North.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:48 AM
In the South? 50/50. I definitely think they run the table in the North.

And thats fair and I won't debate that. I'd put them lower (maybe 20 percent) but thats just me. I was so rooting for Nebraska so its not like I'm anti-UC...just trying to be objective with my evaluations.

Speaking of the devil, si.com's projections shows UC playing UF in the Sugar Bowl. :D

Matt700wlw
12-06-2009, 04:21 AM
Brian Kelly is smarter than all of us. I was, and my friends were as well....wanting Collaros to come in for Pike, because Pike didn't have it today.

BK stuck with his QB, and the result was an absolutely amazing comeback....in the crappy weather, on the road, at Heinz field, against a ranked, conference team for all of the marbles.

Winners find ways to win...and that's what these Bearcats are. 1 more boys, 1 more!! UC vs Florida, probably. It should be fun. Texas and Alabama are worthy of playing for the BCS championship, but so is UC....but that's the system that's in place. A flawed one.

UC can't let Brian Kelly leave, and after what they did today, I imagine it'd be hard for him to.

GAC
12-06-2009, 05:54 AM
ESPN just compared the resumes of Texas, TCU and UC without revealing the teams.

Holtz picked UC because they've beaten more ranked teams, Mark May picked Texas because their opponents had a higher winning percentage.

Holtz later went onto say that we might have a completely different situation had UC or TCU started the season ranked in the Top 10 like Texas.

Don't take this the wrong way craig, but I'd listen to the advice of Abbott and Costello before May and Holtz. ;)

This is the same Holtz that said Weis was the most under-rated coach in college football.

The Bearcat's "achille's heel" is their defense. Ranked #46 nationally, giving up 348 yds/game (137 rushing/game).

Yesterday, we all watched the Tide put up almost 500 yds of total offense (251 rushing) on the #1 overall defense in college football (Gators). I think Ingram/Richardson would have a field day vs UC's defense. And maybe even McElroy.

And while UC's offense is ranked #4 nationally, they have a very hard time running the ball (58th), and the Tides pass defense (#5) would give Pike/Coillaros fits IMO.

And if they end up playing Florida I think the Bearcats face the same problem IMO.

SunDeck
12-06-2009, 08:42 AM
I'm not sure whether this has been said yet, but um, Dion Lewis- my goodness is that kid going to do things, or what? I was very impressed with Pitt this year. It's great to see them making a comeback to national prominence.

And I'm sure this has been said somewhere in the thread, but it bears repeating, Mardy Gilyard might deserve a statue next to the Big O. I've never seen a player pick up a team and carry them like that.

Chip R
12-06-2009, 09:16 AM
The most frustrating thing about the BCS this year is that Florida and Texas both were given such a huge advantage by preseason rankings. Not only did UC have to play well and win out they had to some how magically beat the preconcieved notions that other teams were better from the start. BCS needs to back off their rankings or remove a little bit of the human side of it.

The computers have said Cincy was 3rd all season pretty much but coaches had them 5th. What is the point of the computers?


That is a shame but even if UC was in the top 5 in the preseason and Florida, Alabama and Texas were still all ahead of them, UC still would have been shut out of the BCS championship game. They can only take two no matter how many undefeated teams there are.

Puffy
12-06-2009, 11:05 AM
Is anyone going to the Sugar Bowl if Cincinnati gets there??

Because if so make sure to get ahold of me because I have a hotel room in the Wyndham Hotel that I would be willing to sell you for a great price. I am stuck with it right now due to unforseen circumstances, so holla if you want to talk.

paintmered
12-06-2009, 11:34 AM
Is anyone going to the Sugar Bowl if Cincinnati gets there??

Because if so make sure to get ahold of me because I have a hotel room in the Wyndham Hotel that I would be willing to sell you for a great price. I am stuck with it right now due to unforseen circumstances, so holla if you want to talk.

Holla.

Boston Red
12-06-2009, 11:45 AM
OK Cyclone, here is the exchange after I mentioned that I thought it was very possible that an undefeated TCU would manage to stay in front of an undefeated UC in the final polls, and you claimed I didn't know how the system works:

"Originally Posted by Boston Red
I know how it works plenty well."

Cyclone's Response:
"If your previous posts are any indication, no you don't know how it works plenty well.

No offense, but that reminds me of people saying they understand how run scoring works while quoting BA w/RISP."

How are you feeling about that now? Seems to be that it is going to be VERY, VERY close, and TCU may well come out on top. TCU's got a pretty good BA w/ RISP it seems.

Caveat Emperor
12-06-2009, 11:54 AM
OK Cyclone, here is the exchange after I mentioned that I thought it was very possible that an undefeated TCU would manage to stay in front of an undefeated UC in the final polls, and you claimed I didn't know how the system works:

"Originally Posted by Boston Red
I know how it works plenty well."

Cyclone's Response:
"If your previous posts are any indication, no you don't know how it works plenty well.

No offense, but that reminds me of people saying they understand how run scoring works while quoting BA w/RISP."

How are you feeling about that now? Seems to be that it is going to be VERY, VERY close, and TCU may well come out on top. TCU's got a pretty good BA w/ RISP it seems.

FWIW, we'll never know the real answer to this because Texas is going to end up #2 and the rest of the ranking are really just a moot point.

If Texas had lost, there's no doubt in my mind that Cincinnati would've picked up votes this week to ensure that a BCS team plays in the BCS title game. The system would've protected itself against chaos.

Since that didn't happen, we'll never really know if Cincinnati would've jumped TCU.

Just my .02.

Boston Red
12-06-2009, 11:56 AM
Fair enough, but it sure as hell wasn't a foregone conclusion either way (which is all I said at the time).

Reds4Life
12-06-2009, 11:57 AM
FWIW, we'll never know the real answer to this because Texas is going to end up #2 and the rest of the ranking are really just a moot point.

If Texas had lost, there's no doubt in my mind that Cincinnati would've picked up votes this week to ensure that a BCS team plays in the BCS title game. The system would've protected itself against chaos.

Since that didn't happen, we'll never really know if Cincinnati would've jumped TCU.

Just my .02.

I agree. They aren't going to let a school from a non BCS conference play for a national championship, it will never happen in the current system. If they did, it would open a huge can of worms.

kaldaniels
12-06-2009, 12:14 PM
I agree. They aren't going to let a school from a non BCS conference play for a national championship, it will never happen in the current system. If they did, it would open a huge can of worms.

If UC and UT both lost yesterday, are you suggesting TCU would have not gotten the nod?

vaticanplum
12-06-2009, 12:24 PM
Does anyone else see a huge problem with conference officiating in the Texas-Nebraska game? The Big 12 stands to lose a few million dollars if Texas doesn't win that game. And my oh my, they win it by one point with one second left. I don't think the officiating was blatantly biased (although that horse collar call was a bit bizarre -- I didn't even know what that was; I have never seen that in college football), but I do believe that the current system is set up with just enough room that if a game allows question at all, it's going to come down on a certain side, always.

I don't even have an inherent problem with the non-playoff system in and of itself. But when there's so much money at stake, if you're going to do it that way, you have to put impartial people in charge, on and off the field. You have to stop officially ranking the freaking teams before the season even starts and letting that play such a big role in decision making. Otherwise the whole thing really is just a scam.

vaticanplum
12-06-2009, 12:26 PM
ESPN just compared the resumes of Texas, TCU and UC without revealing the teams.

Holtz picked UC because they've beaten more ranked teams, Mark May picked Texas because their opponents had a higher winning percentage.

Holtz later went onto say that we might have a completely different situation had UC or TCU started the season ranked in the Top 10 like Texas.

On a side note, seeing Lou Holtz plead his case behind a podium on TV is one of the most surreal things one can comprehend at 1:30 in the morning.

LoganBuck
12-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Does anyone else see a huge problem with conference officiating in the Texas-Nebraska game? The Big 12 stands to lose a few million dollars if Texas doesn't win that game. And my oh my, they win it by one point with one second left. I don't think the officiating was blatantly biased (although that horse collar call was a bit bizarre -- I didn't even know what that was; I have never seen that in college football), but I do believe that the current system is set up with just enough room that if a game allows question at all, it's going to come down on a certain side, always.


You mean like when UC scored the "touchdown" against WVU on "Indisputable" video evidence. Or when Indiana got hosed against Michigan, and then again versus Iowa, in order to preserve their rankings. Or when Florida and Alabama managed to get controversial replays to break their way. Until the conference affiliated officials are out of the replay booth, the margin for error is there.

Redsfan320
12-06-2009, 12:47 PM
YYYYYYEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! UC goes undefeated! I'm still psyched about it.
However, if they end up playing Florida in a bowl game, as ESPN is projecting, I fear for them. But for now --
:party::party::party::party::party::party::party:: party::party::party::party::party::party::party::p arty::party::party::party::party:

From sunny Florida (but still cold :() :cool:,
320

GIDP
12-06-2009, 12:50 PM
Heres to UC beating Florida by 21 and Texas and Alabama barely winning the National Championship. Im more here for the drama now.

Chip R
12-06-2009, 12:52 PM
Does anyone else see a huge problem with conference officiating in the Texas-Nebraska game? The Big 12 stands to lose a few million dollars if Texas doesn't win that game. And my oh my, they win it by one point with one second left. I don't think the officiating was blatantly biased (although that horse collar call was a bit bizarre -- I didn't even know what that was; I have never seen that in college football), but I do believe that the current system is set up with just enough room that if a game allows question at all, it's going to come down on a certain side, always.

I don't even have an inherent problem with the non-playoff system in and of itself. But when there's so much money at stake, if you're going to do it that way, you have to put impartial people in charge, on and off the field. You have to stop officially ranking the freaking teams before the season even starts and letting that play such a big role in decision making. Otherwise the whole thing really is just a scam.


Who do you suggest they get to referee these games? You want Big East officials reffing Pac 10 games or SEC officials reffing Big 12 games?

vaticanplum
12-06-2009, 12:54 PM
Who do you suggest they get to referee these games? You want Big East officials reffing Pac 10 games or SEC officials reffing Big 12 games?

I want impartial officials who aren't associated with conferences and work games with no consideration of that. Is that crazy? That's a genuine question...I don't know enough about college football to know why that might be crazy.

texasdave
12-06-2009, 01:17 PM
I'm not sure whether this has been said yet, but um, Dion Lewis- my goodness is that kid going to do things, or what? I was very impressed with Pitt this year. It's great to see them making a comeback to national prominence.

And I'm sure this has been said somewhere in the thread, but it bears repeating, Mardy Gilyard might deserve a statue next to the Big O. I've never seen a player pick up a team and carry them like that.

I thought Dion Lewis was extremely overrated. Sure he got a lot of yardage. I think if you run the ball 47 times in a game that is not too surprising. Against a Bearcat run defense that is not exceptional by any means his long run of the day was 15 yards.

194 yards on 47 carries works out to a rather pedestrian 4.1 yards per attempt. I think the next "Barry Sanders" should be able to do a little more than that against the Bearcats.

dabvu2498
12-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Does anyone else see a huge problem with conference officiating in the Texas-Nebraska game? The Big 12 stands to lose a few million dollars if Texas doesn't win that game.

Regardless of who won that game last night, the Big 12 will get the same amount of money from the BCS. The only way conferences get more is by sending more than one team.

In other words, they don't get more moolah for playing in the National Championship game than they do the Fiesta, Rose, Orange or Sugar Bowls.

NatiRedGals
12-06-2009, 02:50 PM
Regardless of who won that game last night, the Big 12 will get the same amount of money from the BCS. The only way conferences get more is by sending more than one team.

In other words, they don't get more moolah for playing in the National Championship game than they do the Fiesta, Rose, Orange or Sugar Bowls.

Your right but your not counting the money other people get from Travelers, TV watchers, ratings.

Chip R
12-06-2009, 02:58 PM
I want impartial officials who aren't associated with conferences and work games with no consideration of that. Is that crazy? That's a genuine question...I don't know enough about college football to know why that might be crazy.


This is college football, not the NFL. Even if it were like you think it should be you'd still have the same officials working the same games. You really think some ref in New York is going to fly out to California to work a USC game?

dabvu2498
12-06-2009, 02:59 PM
Your right but your not counting the money other people get from Travelers, TV watchers, ratings.

That money doesn't go to the conference (as was implied in the post I responded to), so why would the conference be motivated to do anything?

If anything, Nebraska winning last night, they AND Texas likely would've both gone to a BCS game, thus creating MORE money for the conference.

NorrisHopper30
12-06-2009, 05:06 PM
12-0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best game ive ever been to!

Cyclone792
12-06-2009, 05:37 PM
Got back from Pittsburgh about two hours ago.

All I can say is that yesterday's game was the greatest live sporting event that I've ever attended. Coming back from being down 31-10 on the road against a ranked opponent in the de facto Big East Championship game was amazing!

IslandRed
12-06-2009, 06:46 PM
I want impartial officials who aren't associated with conferences and work games with no consideration of that. Is that crazy? That's a genuine question...I don't know enough about college football to know why that might be crazy.


This is college football, not the NFL.

Exactly. The NCAA is the high-level administrative body of college sports, but the bulk of everyday operational control still resides at the conference level and below and the schools generally prefer it that way. I mean, the very existence of the Big 12 Championship Game is purely a Big 12 decision -- they chose to have it, they can choose to stop having it any time they wish, and they chose the division setup and the rules for choosing who gets to play in it in case of a tie within the division (that was the big brouhaha during last year's three-way tie in the South). So I guess they can choose which officiating crew works the game.

The NCAA could theoretically exert central control over officiating, scheduling, dictating the manner in which conference champions are chosen etc., but it's important to remember the NCAA isn't the government. It's an organization made up of the schools themselves, and the schools generally prefer to keep decision-making close to home as much as possible.

Caveat Emperor
12-07-2009, 12:59 AM
The Sugar Bowl it is.

I'm going down. I haven't been back to New Orleans since I graduated from Tulane in 2003, and this looks like as good an excuse as any.

bucksfan2
12-07-2009, 08:40 AM
FWIW, we'll never know the real answer to this because Texas is going to end up #2 and the rest of the ranking are really just a moot point.

If Texas had lost, there's no doubt in my mind that Cincinnati would've picked up votes this week to ensure that a BCS team plays in the BCS title game. The system would've protected itself against chaos.

Since that didn't happen, we'll never really know if Cincinnati would've jumped TCU.

Just my .02.

You were right. All along I thought that TCU would continue to hold an edge in the BCS over UC. UC finishing at #3 in the BCS is quite impressive and we may never know what would have happened if McCoy floated that ball a little longer.

vaticanplum
12-07-2009, 09:40 AM
Exactly. The NCAA is the high-level administrative body of college sports, but the bulk of everyday operational control still resides at the conference level and below and the schools generally prefer it that way. I mean, the very existence of the Big 12 Championship Game is purely a Big 12 decision -- they chose to have it, they can choose to stop having it any time they wish, and they chose the division setup and the rules for choosing who gets to play in it in case of a tie within the division (that was the big brouhaha during last year's three-way tie in the South). So I guess they can choose which officiating crew works the game.

The NCAA could theoretically exert central control over officiating, scheduling, dictating the manner in which conference champions are chosen etc., but it's important to remember the NCAA isn't the government. It's an organization made up of the schools themselves, and the schools generally prefer to keep decision-making close to home as much as possible.

So because it's not the NFL, they're not beholden to fairness?

I get a lot of what you're saying and there's merit there, but the argument that "they're an independent body, they can do whatever they want" is just part of a vicious cycle in my opinion. Sure, they can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's right or that people aren't going to have problems with it.

People aren't arguing whether they can do what they want. They're arguing whether it makes sense and is right.

Cyclone792
12-07-2009, 10:38 AM
OK Cyclone, here is the exchange after I mentioned that I thought it was very possible that an undefeated TCU would manage to stay in front of an undefeated UC in the final polls, and you claimed I didn't know how the system works:

"Originally Posted by Boston Red
I know how it works plenty well."

Cyclone's Response:
"If your previous posts are any indication, no you don't know how it works plenty well.

No offense, but that reminds me of people saying they understand how run scoring works while quoting BA w/RISP."

How are you feeling about that now? Seems to be that it is going to be VERY, VERY close, and TCU may well come out on top. TCU's got a pretty good BA w/ RISP it seems.

I was right - pretty amazing, huh?

IslandRed
12-07-2009, 06:21 PM
So because it's not the NFL, they're not beholden to fairness?

I get a lot of what you're saying and there's merit there, but the argument that "they're an independent body, they can do whatever they want" is just part of a vicious cycle in my opinion. Sure, they can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's right or that people aren't going to have problems with it.

People aren't arguing whether they can do what they want. They're arguing whether it makes sense and is right.

So is the NFL supposed to hire non-NFL crews to work the playoffs and Super Bowl, then? I mean, if it's automatically suspect for an officiating crew to be employed by the organization that's putting on the game... :p:

Chip R
12-08-2009, 10:01 AM
So because it's not the NFL, they're not beholden to fairness?

I get a lot of what you're saying and there's merit there, but the argument that "they're an independent body, they can do whatever they want" is just part of a vicious cycle in my opinion. Sure, they can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's right or that people aren't going to have problems with it.

People aren't arguing whether they can do what they want. They're arguing whether it makes sense and is right.


So, again, who do you want officiating those games? Let's say a Big East team of refs were doing the Texas Nebraska game. You think they might not have some sort of bias towards Nebraska because if Texas lost, UC would get in the BCS championship game?

LoganBuck
12-08-2009, 12:19 PM
So, again, who do you want officiating those games? Let's say a Big East team of refs were doing the Texas Nebraska game. You think they might not have some sort of bias towards Nebraska because if Texas lost, UC would get in the BCS championship game?

I want the officials to be employed by the NCAA, and paid for by a general fund paid into by the teams.

dabvu2498
12-08-2009, 02:13 PM
I want the officials to be employed by the NCAA, and paid for by a general fund paid into by the teams. Like the NBA?

Chip R
12-08-2009, 03:52 PM
I want the officials to be employed by the NCAA, and paid for by a general fund paid into by the teams.


Ah! So wouldn't it be in the NCAA's best interest to match up Texas and Alabama instead of UC and Alabama? Bigger ratings, more fans.

dabvu's example is spot on. There was an NBA referee that was gambling on games he was involved in. Whether he fixed them or not we don't know but the evidence appears that he has. Donaghy has also charged that refs have it out for certain players and favor others. There is talk of favortism in the NFL too - especially with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. And that wouldn't happen with officials employed by the NCAA?

We're going on the premise here that the officials are corrupt. There isn't a scintilla of evidence that says they are corrupt.

Roy Tucker
12-08-2009, 04:35 PM
I want the officials to be employed by the NCAA, and paid for by a general fund paid into by the teams.

Like the NCAA does everything so well?

Caveat Emperor
12-08-2009, 05:10 PM
Just to get this thread back to UC, it's looking like a done deal that they'll be in the market for a new coach.

Anyone got any names?

Butch Jones from CMU seems like obvious choice, but it looks like he's heading to Marshall unless Cincinnati can get their act together and make a quick push to bring him in.

I'd like to see them stay away from Sumlin at Houston (not a great gameday coach, from what I've seen, and no experience recruiting the midwest), and I'm none to enamored with bringing in a guy like Fulmer or Tuberville who don't have experience running a program with some limitations (like UC) financially and without a big name. I've heard Al Golden's name come up too, but I can't for the life of me figure out what he does well, and I'm firmly of the belief that ANY coach can have a good season or two run in the MAC (BG, Toledo, Ohio, Kent, CMU, Ball State and Miami have all done it in recent years) regardless of coaching prowess or ability.

Ideally, you'd hope MT can hit another home run with the hire, but at this point I just want them to avoid whiffing like Louisville did when Petrino left. I'd hate to see things start taking steps backwards and never reaching this point again.

Eric_the_Red
12-08-2009, 05:21 PM
Think any former pro coaches would want to head up a rising college program? There are plenty of unemployed former NFL head coaches out there.

Roy Tucker
12-08-2009, 05:38 PM
Jeff Quinn on the current staff may be a good pick.

http://www.local12.com/content/local_sports/story/Jeff-Quinn-A-Finalist-For-Broyles-Award/zluO8qqkS0ykuWjXKOSeQQ.cspx

Caveat Emperor
12-08-2009, 05:40 PM
Jeff Quinn on the current staff may be a good pick.

http://www.local12.com/content/local_sports/story/Jeff-Quinn-A-Finalist-For-Broyles-Award/zluO8qqkS0ykuWjXKOSeQQ.cspx

I have it on very good authority that he's going with Kelly to South Bend and has no desire to become a head coach.

FWIW.

joshnky
12-08-2009, 06:04 PM
Think any former pro coaches would want to head up a rising college program? There are plenty of unemployed former NFL head coaches out there.

Recruiting is usually an issue there. Look at Lane Kiffin at Tennessee. He has gotten some top recruits but struggled with minor recruiting violations.

cincrazy
12-09-2009, 10:36 AM
Just to get this thread back to UC, it's looking like a done deal that they'll be in the market for a new coach.

Anyone got any names?

Butch Jones from CMU seems like obvious choice, but it looks like he's heading to Marshall unless Cincinnati can get their act together and make a quick push to bring him in.

I'd like to see them stay away from Sumlin at Houston (not a great gameday coach, from what I've seen, and no experience recruiting the midwest), and I'm none to enamored with bringing in a guy like Fulmer or Tuberville who don't have experience running a program with some limitations (like UC) financially and without a big name. I've heard Al Golden's name come up too, but I can't for the life of me figure out what he does well, and I'm firmly of the belief that ANY coach can have a good season or two run in the MAC (BG, Toledo, Ohio, Kent, CMU, Ball State and Miami have all done it in recent years) regardless of coaching prowess or ability.

Ideally, you'd hope MT can hit another home run with the hire, but at this point I just want them to avoid whiffing like Louisville did when Petrino left. I'd hate to see things start taking steps backwards and never reaching this point again.

I would take a shot at Tuberville, personally. It wouldn't be the first time a "big name" coach went to a university without huge resources. Frank Solich is at OU after his time with Nebraska, and he seems to love it there, and is building a winning program.

Tuberville is a great coach, who could step in and ensure another fantastic season next year. If his Auburn Tigers don't get left out of the BCS title game, and the Tigers go on to win it, I think the national perception of Tuberville is much higher today.

joshnky
12-09-2009, 11:48 AM
I would take a shot at Tuberville, personally.

Tuberville was mentioned early with the UofL position but never seriously. That suggests to me that he is probably aiming for a big-time contract and looking at some of the potential openings in the SEC. I think if he wanted the job he would have at least come up in some of the rumors even if Jurich was locked in on Charlie Strong. And, given the similarities in the two programs, if Tuberville wasn't interested in UofL you would expect the same with Cincy.

Reds4Life
12-09-2009, 02:06 PM
Tuberville was mentioned early with the UofL position but never seriously. That suggests to me that he is probably aiming for a big-time contract and looking at some of the potential openings in the SEC. I think if he wanted the job he would have at least come up in some of the rumors even if Jurich was locked in on Charlie Strong. And, given the similarities in the two programs, if Tuberville wasn't interested in UofL you would expect the same with Cincy.

UC is in a better position in terms of talent returning than UL.

Caveat Emperor
12-09-2009, 02:28 PM
I would take a shot at Tuberville, personally. It wouldn't be the first time a "big name" coach went to a university without huge resources. Frank Solich is at OU after his time with Nebraska, and he seems to love it there, and is building a winning program.

Tuberville is a great coach, who could step in and ensure another fantastic season next year. If his Auburn Tigers don't get left out of the BCS title game, and the Tigers go on to win it, I think the national perception of Tuberville is much higher today.

Other than his undefeated season, Tuberville was never anything special at Auburn.

I know the SEC is strong and all, but these records aren't exactly pretty:

1999: 5-6
2000: 9-4
2001: 7-5
2002: 9-4
2003: 8-5
2004: 13-0
2005: 9-3
2006: 11-2
2007: 9-4
2008: 5-7

He won the SEC outright only once during his time there. Plus, he runs a style of offense that is ill-suited to the talent on UC's roster and ill-suited to the type of players UC can recruit.

Reds4Life
12-09-2009, 02:39 PM
Won the conference division title 5 times at Auburn. And is a former national coach of the year, with 65% lifetime winning %. In 14 years he's only had 4 losing seasons, and 2 of those were right after taking over a horrible Ole Miss team that was on NCAA probation at the time.

UC could do A LOT worse than Tuberville.

joshnky
12-09-2009, 03:17 PM
UC is in a better position in terms of talent returning than UL.

UofL has far superior facilities, bigger budget (54M compared to 35M), and has the advantage of lower first year expectations. Because of the talent returning to UC I'll concede that the jobs may be similar but it would be hard to argue that UC is the better job given the preceding factors. UofL (budget and facilities-wise) has what UC is trying to get and currently struggling to afford.

To compare expenses and revenues:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d3230313838352679656 1723d32303038267264743d31322f392f3230303920333a313 93a343320504d

Big East Budget Rankings:

34. Louisville $54,589,997
37. Connecticut $52,811,643
45. West Virginia $46,970,708
51. Rutgers $44,050,960
52. Syracuse $43,732,382
60. Pittsburgh $37,465,582
63. Cincinnati $34,172,785
71. South Florida $28,160,631

DTCromer
12-09-2009, 04:51 PM
UofL has far superior facilities, bigger budget (54M compared to 35M), and has the advantage of lower first year expectations. Because of the talent returning to UC I'll concede that the jobs may be similar but it would be hard to argue that UC is the better job given the preceding factors. UofL (budget and facilities-wise) has what UC is trying to get and currently struggling to afford.

To compare expenses and revenues:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetails.aspx?756e697469643d3230313838352679656 1723d32303038267264743d31322f392f3230303920333a313 93a343320504d

Big East Budget Rankings:

Not to mention, the University of Louisville is THE thing in town. Not so here in Cincy.

Cyclone792
12-09-2009, 05:15 PM
Trying to think of something other than Brian Kelly and possible coaching replacements ... I was tailgating less than 100 feet away from these guys in Pittsburgh. They're outstanding, and they've got great food to boot ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS9f3ZOuM5E

paintmered
12-09-2009, 05:32 PM
I got my Sugar Bowl tickets this morning (bought 38 of them). Word is that sales are VERY strong. If you haven't gotten yours yet, you have a half hour today to join UCATS to beat the rush tomorrow. The ticket office closes at 6:00 today.

If you don't want to do that, be in line at 8:00am tomorrow. I think there's a good chance tickets sell out tomorrow.

Caveat Emperor
12-09-2009, 09:28 PM
I got my Sugar Bowl tickets this morning (bought 38 of them). Word is that sales are VERY strong. If you haven't gotten yours yet, you have a half hour today to join UCATS to beat the rush tomorrow. The ticket office closes at 6:00 today.

If you don't want to do that, be in line at 8:00am tomorrow. I think there's a good chance tickets sell out tomorrow.

I'll be at my desk at 8 -- I plan on buying online as soon as the tickets go on sale. I've got a group of 4 confirmed to be heading down for the game.

Beyond excited -- New Years Eve AND UC Football in the Big Easy? Silly.

paintmered
12-09-2009, 09:32 PM
Tommy G saying that the ticket office expects a sell out tomorrow. Get on the phones early, folks!

Cyclone792
12-10-2009, 08:48 AM
It's nearly sold out already. They were limiting orders to 6 tickets per order, and I was lucky enough to get 6 together right at 8am. Now the highest number of tickets you can get together is 3.

Cyclone792
12-10-2009, 09:11 AM
UC's Sugar Bowl allotment was sold out by 9am this morning.

Roy Tucker
12-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Good thing to see. It would be nice for UC to be known as a good traveling school, e.g. "UC fans are crazy, they'll go anywhere en masse". Helps with future bowls.

Did UC sell out their allotment for the Orange Bowl last year?

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 10:12 AM
UC's Sugar Bowl allotment was sold out by 9am this morning.

I was able to pull 4 together at just a bit after 8 this morning. Great news about the allotment sell-out. I'm wondering now if UC will request more tickets from bowl officials.

For anyone still interested, remember there should still be tickets available through the Sugar Bowl website.

Cyclone792
12-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Good thing to see. It would be nice for UC to be known as a good traveling school, e.g. "UC fans are crazy, they'll go anywhere en masse". Helps with future bowls.

Did UC sell out their allotment for the Orange Bowl last year?

UC didn't sell out their Orange Bowl allotment last year. I believe they sold around 13k+ out of their 17,500 allotment.

I've also seen estimates of 17k UC fans at the Orange Bowl, but I'm not sure where people pulled those figures. There were obviously also large contingents of UC fans who bought regular/secondary market Orange Bowl tickets outside the UC allotment. Since the NCG was at the Orange Bowl last year, the secondary market tickets were cheap since anybody buying NCG tickets were also forced to buy Orange Bowl tickets. Fortunately we don't have to deal with that issue this year.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 11:28 AM
UC didn't sell out their Orange Bowl allotment last year. I believe they sold around 13k+ out of their 17,500 allotment.

Which is significant, because every ticket not sold had to be eaten at face value by the UC Athletic Department. They probably lost close to half a million dollars in unsold tickets, which ate into their bowl share from the Big East.

Cyclone792
12-10-2009, 05:25 PM
Assuming Kelly is gone, and assuming Coombs is interim head coach ... who's going to be the official Next Coach In? Who do UC fans want?

CE's been right that Mike Thomas needs to make another slam dunk hire. On top of that, it'd also be nice if Thomas could make another slam dunk hire who actually wants to be in Cincinnati for the long-term, not merely as a stepping stone to another school. One of the reasons why I liked the Mick Cronin hire for hoops is because Cronin will only leave if the school sends him away; UC is his dream job, and he's not leaving.

Fortunately, I've got confidence in Mike Thomas. He seems to know what's been doing so hopefully he makes a good call.

wolfboy
12-10-2009, 05:40 PM
Assuming Kelly is gone, and assuming Coombs is interim head coach ... who's going to be the official Next Coach In? Who do UC fans want?

CE's been right that Mike Thomas needs to make another slam dunk hire. On top of that, it'd also be nice if Thomas could make another slam dunk hire who actually wants to be in Cincinnati for the long-term, not merely as a stepping stone to another school. One of the reasons why I liked the Mick Cronin hire for hoops is because Cronin will only leave if the school sends him away; UC is his dream job, and he's not leaving.

Fortunately, I've got confidence in Mike Thomas. He seems to know what's been doing so hopefully he makes a good call.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a Mick Cronin equivalent for UC football. The closest is Coombs, but at best he's not nearly ready. Maybe with a solid performance in the Sugar Bowl, he can change that. I'm skeptical.

Cyclone792
12-10-2009, 05:42 PM
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a Mick Cronin equivalent for UC football. The closest is Coombs, but at best he's not nearly ready. Maybe with a solid performance in the Sugar Bowl, he can change that. I'm skeptical.

Unfortunately, I think you're right on all accounts. I really like having Coombs on the staff as an assistant and a major local recruiting force, but I don't have much confidence at all that he's ready to be a head coach at a BCS football program.

If I had to narrow my choice down to one guy, I'd probably have to say Butch Jones.

DTCromer
12-10-2009, 05:45 PM
Unfortunately, I think you're right on all accounts. I really like having Coombs on the staff as an assistant and a major local recruiting force, but I don't have much confidence at all that he's ready to be a head coach at a BCS football program.

If I had to narrow my choice down to one guy, I'd probably have to say Butch Jones.

That'd be my guess.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 06:07 PM
Assuming Kelly is gone, and assuming Coombs is interim head coach ... who's going to be the official Next Coach In? Who do UC fans want?

CE's been right that Mike Thomas needs to make another slam dunk hire. On top of that, it'd also be nice if Thomas could make another slam dunk hire who actually wants to be in Cincinnati for the long-term, not merely as a stepping stone to another school. One of the reasons why I liked the Mick Cronin hire for hoops is because Cronin will only leave if the school sends him away; UC is his dream job, and he's not leaving.

Fortunately, I've got confidence in Mike Thomas. He seems to know what's been doing so hopefully he makes a good call.

I like Mike Thomas, for the most part. I think he's guilty of MAC thinking (small-market thinking) from time to time, but I think he's done an admirable job at bringing the program to where it is now. I think he's prepared for this scenario (if he isn't, he deserves to be fired immediately).

Here's what I think he needs to be looking for:

1. Previous head coaching experience: This is self-evident. Coordinators fail as often as they succeed, and I hate being the first person to give a coordinator a job. I'd ideally like the candidate for UC to have head coaching experience -- either at the FBS or FCS level. Running your own program is tough; I'd like some knowledge that he has the ability to do it.

2. Offensive background, preferably in the spread-pass: The players are in place to run this offense, it would seem counter-productive to get someone in here who would want to do something different. Further, in a town where you're competing for attention with the NFL and MLB, you want to have a guy who runs an exciting, up-tempo offense to bring casual fans to the fold. I don't think it does anyone any good to get someone in here that wants to turn UC into a de-fact Big Eleven offensive squad.

3. Has worked in and recruited in the Midwest: This is where the players are coming from. I want a coach who knows his way around this part of the country and the players from this part of the country. I don't want a fish-out-of-water going out there to work the recruiting trails.

4. Shows history of developing players or getting maximum effort out of low-level recruits: For better or worse, you've gotta do more with less in Cincinnati. Hopefully that will change someday, but for now -- I want someone who knows how to make do with 3 star recruits.

5. Ability to work well with media and has some PR savvy: You've gotta be a salseman for the UC program -- with the media to get coverage, with the administration to get improvements and funding, and with the public to sell tickets and raise money. I don't want a guy who can't work the rubber chicken circuit -- Cincinnati isn't at the level where coaches can get away with just doing their own thing.

Guys who I am interested in:
- Butch Jones (Head Coach CMU) -- Would provide continuity from Kelly's systems.
- Dave Christensen (Head Coach Wyoming) -- Spread offense expert from Mizzou, has 9 years experience w/ Toledo as an OC in this area of the country, turning around a dead Wyoming program
- Dave Clawson (Head Coach BGSU) -- Multiple years head coach experience at the FCS level, working in the region

Guys who I am NOT interested in:
- Al Golden (Head Coach Temple) -- Inconsistent at his job in Buffalo
- Kevin Sumlin (Head Coach Houston) -- No experience in the midwest, teams have not played well against inferior competition.
- Turner Gill (Head Coach Buffalo) -- Defense-first coach, no experience in the midwest
- Kerry Coombs (Do you even need to ask?) -- Not a serious candidate

LoganBuck
12-10-2009, 09:30 PM
I think Butch Jones is the best choice.

I will throw another one out for consideration. Ohio State Defensive Coordinator Luke Fickell is said to be looking for a head coaching position. He is young, energetic, and known to be the best recruiter on Jim Tressel's staff. I have no idea about what his preferences are on offense. But he knows recruiting, and the midwest. His defenses have been top notch, and players under his tutelage have developed well. Notre Dame came after him last offseason for defensive coordinator and he considered it, but realized what a mine field that was and stayed away. He is said to be looking for the right fit and won't go just anywhere. His dream job is head coach at Ohio State. He knows he has to go away before he can get that job. Jim Tressel likely has at least 5-10 more years left, and maybe more.

Just throwing that one out there.

CTA513
12-10-2009, 09:32 PM
Heres a name that Geoff Hobson brought up in one of the articles on Bengals.com:


With Brian Kelly leaving the University of Cincinnati for Notre Dame, a name that very well could re-surface for the UC job is Ravens quarterbacks coach Hue Jackson, the man that recruited Carson Palmer to USC. When Jackson was the Bengals receivers coach in 2006, he interviewed for the job Kelly got.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 09:34 PM
I think Butch Jones is the best choice.

I will throw another one out for consideration. Ohio State Defensive Coordinator Luke Fickell is said to be looking for a head coaching position. He is young, energetic, and known to be the best recruiter on Jim Tressel's staff. I have no idea about what his preferences are on offense. But he knows recruiting, and the midwest. His defenses have been top notch, and players under his tutelage have developed well. Notre Dame came after him last offseason for defensive coordinator and he considered it, but realized what a mine field that was and stayed away. He is said to be looking for the right fit and won't go just anywhere. His dream job is head coach at Ohio State. He knows he has to go away before he can get that job. Jim Tressel likely has at least 5-10 more years left, and maybe more.

Just throwing that one out there.

It's an interesting thought, but I think it's difficult to succeed for a program at UC's level playing defense-oriented football. For one, it's boring as sin, and the program is still trying to keep casual fan interest alive. For another, it's difficult to recruit the types of big, hard-nosed, tough defensive players to a school like UC (they lose those kinds of recruits to bigger programs). Finally, it's completely ill-suited to the current players on the roster.

The new coach needs to be an offense-first guy. Defense may win championships, but it sure as hell doesn't move papers or sell tickets, and it's hard to "coach up" and scheme your way around talent gaps on defense.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 09:38 PM
With Brian Kelly leaving the University of Cincinnati for Notre Dame, a name that very well could re-surface for the UC job is Ravens quarterbacks coach Hue Jackson, the man that recruited Carson Palmer to USC. When Jackson was the Bengals receivers coach in 2006, he interviewed for the job Kelly got.

In two words: hell no.

If you've never been a head coach before, at any level, I want no part of you becoming head coach of the Bearcats. Too many coordinators slip and fall when they finally put on the big headset.

LoganBuck
12-10-2009, 09:47 PM
It's an interesting thought, but I think it's difficult to succeed for a program at UC's level playing defense-oriented football. For one, it's boring as sin, and the program is still trying to keep casual fan interest alive. For another, it's difficult to recruit the types of big, hard-nosed, tough defensive players to a school like UC (they lose those kinds of recruits to bigger programs). Finally, it's completely ill-suited to the current players on the roster.

The new coach needs to be an offense-first guy. Defense may win championships, but it sure as hell doesn't move papers or sell tickets, and it's hard to "coach up" and scheme your way around talent gaps on defense.

I see the point, but because you have a defensive background coach doesn't mean you can't have an all out spread offense as well. Just saying I wouldn't dismiss a top defensive guy, especially a young up and coming coordinator, out of hand. Maybe Luke Fickell hates watching ball control offense, and would bring in an offensive coordinator that runs the spread. He does well on the recruiting trail, because he is tech savy, and can beat most recruits at video games. He is a different kind of cat. You don't know what he would want on offense without interviewing him.

Mike Thomas has proven that he can hire a coach.

paintmered
12-10-2009, 10:50 PM
WLW reporting that the entirety of the coaching staff will stay on for the bowl game and that Quinn will be the acting head coach for the game.

Kelly, of course, can buy his ticket like the rest of us.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 10:54 PM
WLW reporting that the entirety of the coaching staff will stay on for the bowl game and that Quinn will be the acting head coach for the game.

Kelly, of course, can buy his ticket like the rest of us.

The rest of the staff will, I'm sure, be concentrating on the game and in no way preoccupied by selling their homes, finding places to live in South Bend, going over Irish recruiting reports, etc.

Quinn and Kelly pulled the same gimmick with CMU when Kelly got hired here. Kelly goes on to the bigger program, his lackey Quinn stays behind to coach the old school in their bowl game.

I guess turnabout is fair play here.

wolfboy
12-10-2009, 11:12 PM
http://twitter.com/TomDienhart


Cincinnati has asked for permission to talk to Houston coach Kevin Sumlin.

Take it for what it's worth.

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:22 PM
http://twitter.com/TomDienhart



Take it for what it's worth.

I expected them to go after this guy.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Take it for what it's worth.

Ugh -- just the news that would make my day better: Cincinnati looking at bringing in the guy who's team has crapped the bed not once, not twice, but thrice to unranked opponents this season (including a loss to a UTEP team that was coming of a 60+ point stomping at the hands of the Longhorns).

Sumlin has never recruited the midwest, and all his major experience is in the deep south.

Pass. Pass. Pass. This guy has "disaster" written all over him.

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:24 PM
It's a shame that we are goin to spend the next month talking about whos going to be the head coach.

I hope the guys come out showing that they are the reason they went 12-0 and dont let the stupid coach ruin it for them.

paintmered
12-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Ugh -- just the news that would make my day better: Cincinnati looking at bringing in the guy who's team has crapped the bed not once, not twice, but thrice to unranked opponents this season (including a loss to a UTEP team that was coming of a 60+ point stomping at the hands of the Longhorns).

Sumlin has never recruited the midwest, and all his major experience is in the deep south.

Pass. Pass. Pass. This guy has "disaster" written all over him.

Smells like Kragthorpe part deux to me.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2009, 11:33 PM
Smells like Kragthorpe part deux to me.

The comparisons are painfully apt. Both were offensive coordinators in the B12 and both moved on to coach at C-USA programs. Whereas Sumlin is just inconsistent, Kragthorpe folded under pressure at Tulsa. Krags' 2006 Tulsa team started 7-1 and then faded to go 1-3 down the stretch (only a win v. my awful Tulane Green Wave in there).

Kragthrope also had no experience recruiting the midwest, and look at the complete dearth of talent he's leaving Louisville with. That's no coincidence -- it's tough to come in and recruit for a BCS program when you've never coached in the region and you're used to just taking whoever is left when the big-boy school rolls through.

Sumlin is bad, bad news. I can't believe how many people are touting him for the job just based on "runs up-tempo offense" without even looking twice.

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:34 PM
Maybe we can get Charlie Weis.

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:34 PM
:laugh:

paintmered
12-10-2009, 11:42 PM
This team and senior class deserves another banquet after the bowl game win or lose. One where they can legitimately reflect and enjoy their many accomplishments without all the distractions. This one was taken away from them and they deserve it back.

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:50 PM
This team and senior class deserves another banquet after the bowl game win or lose. One where they can legitimately reflect and enjoy their many accomplishments without all the distractions. This one was taken away from them and they deserve it back.

Brian Kelly generally makes things about him. Why would the banquet be any different.

cincrazy
12-11-2009, 12:05 AM
This team and senior class deserves another banquet after the bowl game win or lose. One where they can legitimately reflect and enjoy their many accomplishments without all the distractions. This one was taken away from them and they deserve it back.

Amen.

I had no problem with Kelly leaving for Notre Dame. However, the way he has handled it has been horrible. For all of this to play out on THIS day makes it even more of a disgrace. The entire season has been overshadowed by this one week, and that's awful.

GIDP
12-11-2009, 12:08 AM
"A head coach who came to town demanding attention from the media and fans, leaves town dodging both. That's unaccountable, ironic, and yes, like a lot of what we saw today, pathetic."

Mo Egger nails another one.