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wojo1025
12-06-2009, 10:28 PM
Rays, Reds Interested In Nelson Cruz
By Mike Axisa [December 6, 2009 at 9:20pm CST]

The Rays and Reds are among the teams that have contacted the Rangers about outfielder Nelson Cruz, according to FoxSports.com's Jon Paul Morosi. We first heard that teams were contacting Texas about Cruz late last month.


For the right price I would like to see them bring him in. What do you guys think? Who would you send to Texas for Cruz?

BigPoppa
12-06-2009, 11:05 PM
Nobody. I'd take steps to keep Gomes. :thumbup:

Dracodave
12-07-2009, 12:49 AM
I'd give up what was nessecary without overpaying for him, I'd ask for Elvis Andrus as well.

BEETTLEBUG
12-07-2009, 05:57 AM
I second that DracoDave get both if possible

Redsfan320
12-07-2009, 08:00 AM
Yeah, I would love to see a blockbuster deal to get both. Perhaps Dickerson, Janish, and Alonso + two or three minor prospects for Cruz and Andrus. I'll have to do some more research on everybody I mentioned here to make sure this would work, and I'll also have to check on contracts, but I could see this working. Any thoughts?

From sunny Florida :cool:,
320

Redus
12-07-2009, 09:15 AM
Why would the Rangers part with those two young cheap guys? Makes no sense. Ive read The Rangers GM saying he wont part with Cruz.

Vottomatic
12-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Interesting. I'm more interested in staying pat with what we got and letting the farm system fill our outfield.

I also strongly believe this team needs to package Alonso and fill some needs.

We also have a decent relationship with Texas in terms of trading.

Vottomatic
12-07-2009, 11:27 AM
Okay, changed my mind.

Cruz turns 30 next July. He's been in the majors since 2005. He never started until last season, and only played in 128 games. He hit 33 HR's but only produced 76 rbi. Batted .260 and stole 20 bases.

Not exactly overly impressive other than the HR's.

Red in Atl
12-07-2009, 11:58 AM
If we just move Phillips to SS, put Frazier at 2nd and Heisey/Francisco in Left with Stubbs and Dickerson in Center, Bruce in Right, Rolen, Votto, Hernandez/Hanigan at Catcher, we have the best young team in baseball. I don't even think we need Gomes.

He deserves to start anyway, but since we have the Cordero and Tavares contracts Gomes could be passed over for the kids. We must DFA Taveras. Trade Cordero if possible, but I still think with the money we save on position and bench players because of their age, we keep it in the bullpen.

I'm stoked about next year.

bounty37h
12-07-2009, 12:01 PM
^Phillips is not moving anywhere

Alpha Zero
12-07-2009, 12:20 PM
I don't think that acquiring Cruz at this point in his career is a good idea. A year ago, I would have been all for going after him, but now that he has fulfilled some of the promise of his billing, he won't come cheap. The homeruns are nice, and he plays good defense and has solid speed; however, he's going to be 30 and has trouble getting on base (which is one of the biggest defficiencies of this Reds' team as a whole). Unless Walt can get him without giving up much of anything (unlikely), I'd probably prefer to see a Dickerson/Heisey platoon in LF to start the year.

GIDP
12-07-2009, 12:23 PM
After seeing what they gave up for rolen I can only imagine what they would give up for Cruz. Im guessing they start with offering Wood and Frazier and end up giving them Wood, Alonso, and Heisey.

Vottomatic
12-07-2009, 04:06 PM
If we just move Phillips to SS, put Frazier at 2nd and Heisey/Francisco in Left with Stubbs and Dickerson in Center, Bruce in Right, Rolen, Votto, Hernandez/Hanigan at Catcher, we have the best young team in baseball. I don't even think we need Gomes.

He deserves to start anyway, but since we have the Cordero and Tavares contracts Gomes could be passed over for the kids. We must DFA Taveras. Trade Cordero if possible, but I still think with the money we save on position and bench players because of their age, we keep it in the bullpen.

I'm stoked about next year.

I completely agree.

Platoon Francisco (LH) with Heisey (RH) in LF.
Platoon Dickerson (LH) with Stubbs (RH) in CF.
Bruce in RF.
Rolen at 3B.
I agree with moving Phillips to SS.
I agree it's time to try Frazier at 2B.
Votto at 1B.
They re-signed Ramon Hernandez. Let he and Hanigan split the catching duties.

No need to spend additional money on the position players.

Spend money on better pitching if it's available. Or begin to trade Alonso and some of our remaining minor leaguers who have no where to go, for some pitching depth.

Good post.

Alpha Zero
12-07-2009, 04:39 PM
If I were Jocketty, I would very seriously consider giving Todd Frazier a long look at SS during Spring Training. He's a big guy and will eventually need to move off of the SS position, but I say that the Reds give him a shot there while he's still young and mobile despite his size. Everything that I've read about the guy would seem to indicate that he's a steady (though unspectacular) defensive performer as a shortstop. He's no Janish, but he's no Keppinger either. Combine that with the fact that he could be a well above average hitter, and I think that it's well worth the hit that you take on defense, especially on an offensively anemic team. I think this is probably the most painless way to add offense and unblock Frazier for the time being.

RoundingThird
12-08-2009, 10:21 AM
I like the idea of bringing Cruz on but not if we have to give up more than 1 or 2 prospects. I'd still like to see what Gomes can do in LF if he plays everyday, and if not then I'd like to see Francisco get some work out there, along with Heisey.

mattfeet
12-08-2009, 11:03 AM
If I were Jocketty, I would very seriously consider giving Todd Frazier a long look at SS during Spring Training. He's a big guy and will eventually need to move off of the SS position, but I say that the Reds give him a shot there while he's still young and mobile despite his size. Everything that I've read about the guy would seem to indicate that he's a steady (though unspectacular) defensive performer as a shortstop. He's no Janish, but he's no Keppinger either. Combine that with the fact that he could be a well above average hitter, and I think that it's well worth the hit that you take on defense, especially on an offensively anemic team. I think this is probably the most painless way to add offense and unblock Frazier for the time being.

Im not up to snuff on the FoF (Facts of Frazier) yet, but what could you see him realistically hitting in the bigs? I know Janish pounced an anemic .211. My thoughts on your post are:

- What could Frazier realistically hit in the bigs?
- Would his defensive void (as compared to Janish), offset his increased offense?
-What batting line would he have to have to make him a worthwhile ROI (investment being his replacement of Janish)


-Matt

Alpha Zero
12-08-2009, 12:44 PM
Im not up to snuff on the FoF (Facts of Frazier) yet, but what could you see him realistically hitting in the bigs? I know Janish pounced an anemic .211. My thoughts on your post are:

- What could Frazier realistically hit in the bigs?
- Would his defensive void (as compared to Janish), offset his increased offense?
-What batting line would he have to have to make him a worthwhile ROI (investment being his replacement of Janish)


-Matt

Bill James' projection system has Frazier hitting .278/.336/.471 if he's promoted in 2010. That may be a bit high, but I don't think it's out of the question either. Frazier is an absolute doubles machine and is an extremely sound all around ball player.

There will be a definite drop off in defense from Janish to Frazier, but I think that Frazier can be steady with slightly below average to average range at SS. That's not great, but I think it's acceptable when you have an above average defender at nearly every other position and are in dire need of some quality offense at a bargain price. I love high-caliber defense, but I think there's a point of diminishing returns. I don't expect to see it happen, but I think it's an intriguing alternative.

KiefMoon
12-08-2009, 12:56 PM
Walt, if your talking to Texas bring Hamilton back here.

mattfeet
12-08-2009, 12:56 PM
Good info, thanks. :)

-Matt

Kingspoint
12-09-2009, 04:35 AM
Going after Nelson Cruz would be consistent with the insanity of the Scott Rolen/Give-away-the-farm trade.

We have more good outfielders than we know what to do with, while our starting pitching has more holes in it than solutions.

I look at the first 7 players who will get a chance to start for the REDS in 2010, and there isn't enough talent there for a .500 team.

And, there's rumors of the REDS trying to trade for an Outfielder, likely giving up pitching in return? How stupid can they be if that's true?


1 Bronson Arroyo (R)
2 Johnny Cueto (R)
3 Homer Bailey (R)
4 Justin Lehr (R)
5 Matt Maloney (L)
6 Kip Wells (R)
7 Jordan Smith (R)
8 Travis Wood (R)
9 Enerio Del Rosario (R)
10 Logan Ondrusek (R)
11 Phil Valiquette (L)



Edinson Volquez (R) (D.L.) is already done for the year for 2010 (you're fooling yourself if you're buying into any hype that he can help the team any better than a Micah Owings in 2010. Stay away from the Kool-Aid if you've already drank any of it.)

Aaron Harang (R) (D.L.) makes too much money, has been horrible the past two seasons because he was overused the 3 previous seasons (and Dusty did a number on him last season with that 5-inning relief appearance 2 days after he pitched about 125 times). He'll be traded most likely; and, if he isn't, he'll be no better than an average MLB pitcher (if he improves), far from being someone who'll lead the team to the playoffs.

Lehr and Maloney need to be 6 and 7, while there's 3 players there capable of being a solid #2 pitcher in Aroyo, Cueto and Bailey. More likely, one of those 3 reaches #2 status, while the other 2 have roller-coaster up-and-down seasons floating between being #2 pitchers at times to being #6 (AAA) pitchers at times, ending up with #3 and #4 type results at the end of the season.

There's no chance of having a #1 pitcher among that group this year. And, sadly, after the top-3, all the others will be struggling to put together enough of a season to be a worthy #5 pitcher. In other words, pitchers who won't "earn" their starts, but have them handed to them because there's no one else to be given the ball. See Kip Wells.

I'm afraid the best thing the REDS could do this week would be to trade Alonso for a starting pitcher, release Taveras, hoping some fool picks him up, and trade Harang for whatever they can get out from under of as much of that $12.5 million as they can (but don't be stupid and trade a pitching prospect for money like they did Zach Stewart).

Personally, I'd love to see them trade Rolen for whatever pitching, at whatever price, they can get. I would think packaging Rolen and Alonso could get you a very good starting pitcher, at least a #3.