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View Full Version : How Ohio State will defend Oregon's spread offense in Rose



Ghosts of 1990
12-09-2009, 10:53 AM
http://harleyinthehuddle.blogspot.com/2009/12/oregons-spread-offense-can-anybody-stop.html

Really nice write up done by a former Ohio State player. I can't wait for the matchup of these two high powered offensive units. January 1st can't come soon enough!

flyer85
12-09-2009, 02:33 PM
my guess is not very well considering the recent history of OSU and spread offenses in BCS games. After playing excellent defense all year they have made it to the BCS only to get schooled on defense.

cincrazy
12-09-2009, 02:50 PM
my guess is not very well considering the recent history of OSU and spread offenses in BCS games. After playing excellent defense all year they have made it to the BCS only to get schooled on defense.

I disagree here.

The past problems defending the spread stemmed from major problems on the defensive line. Those problems have been solved. The "OSU doesn't have enough speed" theory was nothing but a myth. The speed was plenty enough, but the work in the trenches was terrible. They weren't getting into the backfield, and backs were sprinting through massive holes.

Those holes aren't there any longer, and I expect the D to lock up this Oregon offense and throw away the key.

flyer85
12-09-2009, 02:53 PM
The Bucks did not see a spread offense anywhere the caliber of Oregon during the regular season. Call me skeptical. I'll believe it when I see it.

The other thing that happens is that given a month the opposing offenses seem to put a lot of new stuff that catches the Bucks off guard during the game. I don't expect that to change.

LoganBuck
12-09-2009, 02:58 PM
my guess is not very well considering the recent history of OSU and spread offenses in BCS games. After playing excellent defense all year they have made it to the BCS only to get schooled on defense.

Ohio State has done much better versus the spread recently.

And they only faced one true spread team in a BCS game in 2006 against Florida.

When Michigan hired Rich Rodriguez, Ohio State sent a crew down to South Florida to talk to their coaches about beating spread offenses. They have been much better since. Teams played since then that run some version of the spread:
Michigan 2-0
Penn State 1-1 Loss pinned on Ohio State offense
Illinois 2-0
Indiana 1-0
Purdue 1-1 loss pinned on Ohio State's offense
Northwestern 1-0
Minnesota 2-0
Texas 0-1 (isn't a read option spread, but I would call them a spread team, they certainly weren't blown out there either.)

flyer85
12-09-2009, 03:04 PM
And they only faced one true spread team in a BCS game in 2006 against Florida.both LSU and Texas killed em when they spread it out. The problem has become the Bucks can defend the lesser athletes of their Big10 opponents when they go spread but recent history has shown they struggle when they get up against a BCS opponent that spreads them out.

Might the Oregon game this year be different than the recent past? Sure but at this point I'm not buying it, I want to see it in the Rose Bowl.

cincrazy
12-09-2009, 03:05 PM
The Bucks did not see a spread offense anywhere the caliber of Oregon during the regular season. Call me skeptical. I'll believe it when I see it.

The other thing that happens is that given a month the opposing offenses seem to put a lot of new stuff that catches the Bucks off guard during the game. I don't expect that to change.

I understand your skepticism. But you have to understand, the same argument can be made about whether Oregon can rack up yards against this defense. They haven't faced a different anywhere near this good all season long. The Pac 10, with USC having a down year, is practically void of dominant defenses.

I don't expect to shut Oregon out. But I have a hard time believing they're going to rack up 500+ yards of offense on this defense.

flyer85
12-09-2009, 03:12 PM
But I have a hard time believing they're going to rack up 500+ yards of offense on this defense.they won't need to. If they can go for 350 and not turn it over it should be enough to get the win. The Bucks will need to keep them under 300 unless Oregon turns it over.

If there is something positive to say at least over the course of the last month of the season the Bucks found their identity on offense (power running and throw it only when necessary). However, that will only work if the defense can shut down the opponent or force turnovers.

IMO, the Big10 looked like a down conference again this year. Maybe one of these years they will actually perform well in bowl games.

LoganBuck
12-09-2009, 03:13 PM
The Bucks did not see a spread offense anywhere the caliber of Oregon during the regular season. Call me skeptical. I'll believe it when I see it.

The other thing that happens is that given a month the opposing offenses seem to put a lot of new stuff that catches the Bucks off guard during the game. I don't expect that to change.

Oregon is the best offense that Ohio State has seen this year.
Ohio State is the best defense that Oregon has seen this year.

Again I go back to the Texas game last season, Texas and their high powered offense certainly didn't blow them out. I expect Thaddeus Gibson and Cam Heyward to be in the Oregon backfield all night. Rolle, Hines, and Homan are players that are specifically suited for playing spread teams. I don't expect to see much of Austin Spitler in this game.

I won't pretend to have any idea about how Ohio State's pedestrian offense will look versus Oregon's pedestrian defense.

cincrazy
12-09-2009, 03:15 PM
they won't need to. If they can go for 350 and not turn it over it should be enough to get the win. The Bucks will need to keep them under 300 unless Oregon turns it over.

If there is something positive to say at least over the course of the last month of the season the Bucks found their identity on offense (power running and throw it only when necessary). However, that will only work if the defense can shut down the opponent or force turnovers.

IMO, the Big10 looked like a down conference again this year. Maybe one of these years they will actually perform well in bowl games.

I think if OSU hold them to 350 yards or less, it should be considered a success.

I think it's unfair to say that if they don't hold them under 300 yards, it's a failure. That may be impossible against this offense.

I'm not saying we're going to win the game. I have the same questions about our offense that you do. But what I don't question is the skill and ability of the defense.

flyer85
12-09-2009, 03:29 PM
I won't pretend to have any idea about how Ohio State's pedestrian offense will look versus Oregon's pedestrian defense.they will have to be able to run the ball to have success. Early in the year the Bucks tried to ride the arm of Pryor and that turned out to be a bad idea. they will need to pound on those Ducky Boys with the run and use that to open up some play action opportunities to go deep.

Over the years the Rose Bowl has not been a kind place to the Bucks.

cincrazy
12-09-2009, 03:29 PM
they will have to be able to run the ball to have success. Early in the year the Bucks tried to ride the arm of Pryor and that turned out to be a bad idea. they will need to pound on those Ducky Boys with the run and use that to open up some play action opportunities to go deep.

Over the years the Rose Bowl has not been a kind place to the Bucks.

But they are on a winning streak :thumbup:.

LoganBuck
12-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Oregon is 1-3 all time in the Rose Bowl.

Ohio State is 6-6 all time in the Rose Bowl.

Ohio State is 7-0 all time versus Oregon.

Those three nuggets won't get you a Happy Meal.

OnBaseMachine
12-09-2009, 04:33 PM
Oregon has a very, very good offense but Masoli is prone to turning the ball over. I expect OSU to win this game by 10-14 points.

traderumor
12-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Oregon has a very, very good offense but Masoli is prone to turning the ball over. I expect OSU to win this game by 10-14 points.All of which will prove that Oregon wasn't a very good team after all since the Buckeyes beat them ;)

DTCromer
12-09-2009, 08:36 PM
Let's not mention, Oregon has the propensity to choke in big games.

GAC
12-10-2009, 05:30 AM
http://harleyinthehuddle.blogspot.com/2009/12/oregons-spread-offense-can-anybody-stop.html

Really nice write up done by a former Ohio State player. I can't wait for the matchup of these two high powered offensive units. January 1st can't come soon enough!

TWO high-powered offensive units????

Have you watched OSU this year, from the offensive side of the ball?

And Oregon relies far more on their running game, which is ranked 6th nationally (236 yds/game), then they do their passing. Getting RB Blount back,matched with RB James, will be a huge test for OSU's #5 ranked rushing defense (83 yds/game).

The Ducks are smaller, but lightning fast. Speed has killed OSU in previous bowl games. ;)

It's the same perplexing problem with me, when it comes to this year's OSU team..... how much time will their defense spend on the field due to a very inconsistent, and PREDICTABLE, offense and Tresselball? Will they simply be worn out in the second half trying to contain the Ducks?

traderumor
12-10-2009, 06:56 AM
Let's not mention, Oregon has the propensity to choke in big games.Like USC? Oregon State (didn't get much bigger than that)?

Sea Ray
12-11-2009, 11:20 AM
This game will be another referendum on the current state of the Big Ten. OSU has a top ten rushing defense. If the Ducks run all over them then we can conclude that OSU's rushing numbers were attained through playing sorry offenses.

I expect a high scoring game. I think Oregon's offense is too powerful for OSU to handle and expect a 500 yard performance. However I think Oregon's defense is horribly porous. If OSU can't look good against that defense then there are big problems in Columbus.

guttle11
12-11-2009, 12:32 PM
At the end of the day the spread offense operates under the same guidelines as other styles...you have to control the line. OSU's speed to the perimeter on defense is legit, Oregon won't win the game there. If OSU can get pressure with the front 4 and hold contain on Masoli, Oregon will struggle to score 17 points.

If not, the Ducks will push for 30.

BuckeyeRed27
12-11-2009, 12:52 PM
Oregon will score about 3 TDs and turn the ball over at least 3 times. If Ohio State can turn those into TDs and not FGs they win pretty easily.

I think OSU will be able to run the ball on Oregon and control the clock. Unless they turn the ball over I expect OSU to win by 10-17.

DTCromer
12-11-2009, 01:04 PM
Like USC? Oregon State (didn't get much bigger than that)?

The 4-loss USC team? Not exactly a BIG game this year. maybe in Oregon's eyes.

And Oregon State, really? They pretty much own OSU.

Not to mention OU's performance against Stanford the following week of USC.

GAC
12-11-2009, 03:55 PM
This game will be another referendum on the current state of the Big Ten. OSU has a top ten rushing defense. If the Ducks run all over them then we can conclude that OSU's rushing numbers were attained through playing sorry offenses.

That's simply ridiculous.

jimbo
12-11-2009, 04:55 PM
That's simply ridiculous.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this same reaction. :rolleyes:

bucksfan2
12-11-2009, 04:56 PM
At the end of the day the spread offense operates under the same guidelines as other styles...you have to control the line. OSU's speed to the perimeter on defense is legit, Oregon won't win the game there. If OSU can get pressure with the front 4 and hold contain on Masoli, Oregon will struggle to score 17 points.

If not, the Ducks will push for 30.

I don't see the Ducks getting 30. Actually being biased, I see OSU winning by 10+ points. I don't think Oregon has seen a defense as good as OSU's. The DLine should dominate Oregon's offensive line and the defense will hit Massoli over and over again. I just don't see Oregon winning a tough, physical game.

The key offensively for OSU is how Pryor plays. He will need to make more plays than he did down the stretch of the season and he can't play turnover like he did against Purdue. I will be interested to see his development, 6 straight practice weeks should do wonders for the kid.

GAC
12-12-2009, 04:51 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this same reaction. :rolleyes:

Especially if one takes a very serious, and objective, look at the scheduling of a lot of the established "big name" schools, and their SoS. Couldn't they be just as "guilty" of not only padding their W-L record, but also their offensive/defensive stats (nationally)?

dabvu2498
12-12-2009, 06:26 AM
Especially if one takes a very serious, and objective, look at the scheduling of a lot of the established "big name" schools, and their SoS. Couldn't they be just as "guilty" of not only padding their W-L record, but also their offensive/defensive stats (nationally)?

I think it's safe to say Oregon is not guilty of schedule padding. Their OOC games: @ Boise, Purdue, and Utah. Throw in their 9 PAC 10 games and it's safe to say they played one of the 5-10 toughest schedules in the country.

traderumor
12-12-2009, 06:32 AM
The 4-loss USC team? Not exactly a BIG game this year. maybe in Oregon's eyes.

And Oregon State, really? They pretty much own OSU.

Not to mention OU's performance against Stanford the following week of USC.Those were BIG games for Oregon. USC was in the top 10, maybe even top 5 at the time and had one loss. Yea, that was a BIG game and they destroyed USC. What they did the following week against Stanford has nothing to do with whether or not USC was a BIG game at the time it was played. Looking in hindsight and saying "oh, USC lost 4" brings into question your method for determining a "BIG" game.

The Oregon State game was winner take all for a trip to the Rose Bowl, a game that went back and forth and OSU was ranked about 15th. Whether or not they "own" them is moot when considering if this game was big or not. An effectual PAC 10 championship game against a ranked opponent who is also your in-state rival is a BIG game.

Sea Ray
12-12-2009, 08:08 AM
Especially if one takes a very serious, and objective, look at the scheduling of a lot of the established "big name" schools, and their SoS. Couldn't they be just as "guilty" of not only padding their W-L record, but also their offensive/defensive stats (nationally)?

My post had nothing to do with scheduling. It's just acknowledging that the bulk of OSU's schedule consisted of Big Ten teams. Just a fact

GAC
12-13-2009, 08:50 AM
I think it's safe to say Oregon is not guilty of schedule padding. Their OOC games: @ Boise, Purdue, and Utah. Throw in their 9 PAC 10 games and it's safe to say they played one of the 5-10 toughest schedules in the country.

Oregon's SoS was 11th, which is still pretty solid. And the Pac-10 was a lot stronger (balanced) conference this year too.

And 2 of Oregon's OOC opponents are bowl bound. Same with OSU.

Now some will counter - yeah, but OSU also played OOC games against Toledo and N. Mexico State. The N. Mexico State game was suppose to be a bye week for OSU.

But I am am not defending OSU's OOC schedule. I've given them a hard time in the past on this. But my point is that people, simply prejudiced against OSU, will bring up games like this on their schedule, but don't seem to get too ruffled when....

Florida plays S. Charleston, Troy, Florida International
Alabama plays Florida International, N. Texas, Chattanooga
Texas plays UL-Monroe, Wyoming, UTEP, UCF
LSU plays Louisiana-Lafayette, Tuloane, Louisiana Tech

You get the picture?

Here are the top 10 teams and their SoS....

Alabama - 4th
Texas - 30th
Cincinnati- 42nd
TCU - 75th
Florida - 8th
Boise State - 92nd
Oregon - 11th
Ohio State - 50th
Georgia Tech - 36th
Iowa - 22nd
LSU - 33rd

But what is interesting is when one looks at the various conference's SoS in non-conference games. This guy creates a formula/equations that is kinda interesting in ranking the conference's OOC SoS.

Too "geeky" for me to understand though; but here are his final results....

Pac 10 Sc = 0.653
Big 12 Sc = 0.564583
Big Ten Sc = 0.4863
Big East Sc = 0.44
SEC Sc = 0.425
ACC Sc = 0.377083

http://www.collegegameballs.com/2009/05/20/2009-out-of-conference-schedule-strength-by-conference-and-team/

GAC
12-13-2009, 09:38 AM
My post had nothing to do with scheduling. It's just acknowledging that the bulk of OSU's schedule consisted of Big Ten teams. Just a fact

Well D'uh. :p:

And the bulk of LSU's games consisted of SEC games, Oklahoma's were Big 12 games, and USC's were PAC-10 games.

You stated....


This game will be another referendum on the current state of the Big Ten. OSU has a top ten rushing defense. If the Ducks run all over them then we can conclude that OSU's rushing numbers were attained through playing sorry offenses.

I want the emphasis to be on "sorry offenses".

First off - Oregon has one of the top scoring offenses in the nation (38 pts/game). And their rushing offense is the same (236 yds/game). So I have already said that it will be a test for OSU's rushing defense.

Would you consider Navy to be a "sorry offense"? Their rushing offense is #4 nationally (272 yds/game), ranked higher then Oregon's, yet we won.

Wisconsin's rushing offense is 15th nationally (206 yds/game). I was at that game. Our defense won that game for us, and shut the Badgers down to 44 total yards rushing. Final score was 31-13 OSU.

Illinois' rushing offense is 18th nationally (200 yds/game). The got 84 yds rushing. Final score? 30-0 OSU.

Michigan's rushing offense is 27th nationally (186 yds/game). 80 yds rushing. OSU won 21-10.

Penn State is 39th in rushing offense (174 yds/game). They put up 76 yds rushing and OSU dominated them 24-7.

I won't even waste my time going into OSU opponents as far as total offense and passing yards.

But I think I've proven my point that irregardless if OSU gets beat in the Rose Bowl, and Oregon has success in their running game, it certainly doesn't prove that OSU simply played "sorry offenses".

A ridiculous contention.

Sea Ray
12-14-2009, 11:58 AM
I want the emphasis to be on "sorry offenses".

First off - Oregon has one of the top scoring offenses in the nation (38 pts/game). And their rushing offense is the same (236 yds/game). So I have already said that it will be a test for OSU's rushing defense.

Would you consider Navy to be a "sorry offense"? Their rushing offense is #4 nationally (272 yds/game), ranked higher then Oregon's, yet we won.


But I think I've proven my point that irregardless if OSU gets beat in the Rose Bowl, and Oregon has success in their running game, it certainly doesn't prove that OSU simply played "sorry offenses".

A ridiculous contention.

It's all relative. The rushing stats of OSU's opponents are only as good as the competition they faced. If OSU lays an egg again in a BCS game then it will diminish what they accomplished this year making it appear as though they amassed it while facing that soft #50 ranked schedule you posted earlier. For that reason it behooves OSU not to get embarrassed again.

jimbo
12-14-2009, 12:15 PM
For that reason it behooves OSU not to get embarrassed again.

:rolleyes: Self anointed Buckeye criticizers are quite talented at over exaggeration.

Sea Ray
12-14-2009, 02:31 PM
Self anointed Buckeye criticizers are quite talented at over exaggeration.

Only Buckeye Homers would disagree with my statement that "it behooves OSU not to get embarrassed again."

I honestly didn't think that qualified as "over exaggeration"

traderumor
12-14-2009, 04:44 PM
Only Buckeye Homers would disagree with my statement that "it behooves OSU not to get embarrassed again."

I honestly didn't think that qualified as "over exaggeration"I think it has more to do with begging the question of being embarrassed in the first place, which is a prerequisite for being embarrassed again. Not to mention the potshot taken at "Buckeye Homers" from someone lacking objectivity going the other direction.

Sea Ray
12-14-2009, 05:42 PM
I think it has more to do with begging the question of being embarrassed in the first place, which is a prerequisite for being embarrassed again. Not to mention the potshot taken at "Buckeye Homers" from someone lacking objectivity going the other direction.

I'm really not into labels myself but I didn't start with the labeling as in "Buckeye Criticizer". Funny how you have a problem with my label but not the one fired at me.

My point was this: lack of objectivity is found on both sides of the street

jimbo
12-14-2009, 06:18 PM
I'm really not into labels myself but I didn't start with the labeling as in "Buckeye Criticizer". Funny how you have a problem with my label but not the one fired at me.


It wasn't my intention to label anyone, just calling it as I see it. I don't think it's big mystery what your feelings are on Ohio State football and the Big 10, you've made them quite known. You can't get a post in on the subject without throwing in a few jabs.

Chip R
12-14-2009, 06:51 PM
All right, enough picking at each other. Get this back on topic or this thread will be closed.

GAC
12-15-2009, 05:36 AM
It's all relative. The rushing stats of OSU's opponents are only as good as the competition they faced.

Exactly! And one can easily make that contention about ANY of the the teams. And that competition faced one of the nation's top rushing defenses and for the most part, except for Navy, got shut down and beat.

These weren't sorry offenses. That's my point.


If OSU lays an egg again in a BCS game then it will diminish what they accomplished this year making it appear as though they amassed it while facing that soft #50 ranked schedule you posted earlier. For that reason it behooves OSU not to get embarrassed again.

Was OSU embarrassed last year in the Tostito's Fiesta Bowl vs #3 Texas?

If OSU "lays an egg" (whatever that means) then the only thing it proves is that OSU "laid an egg". Nothing more.

And there are teams ranked higher then OSU whose schedule was just as "soft", if not softer. TCU's was 75th, Boise State's was 92nd, the Bearcats was 42nd. Why just pick on OSU?

I fully agree that OSU needs to make a statement in this game. I just think they (their program) gets too much undue criticism for those two NC games.

They aren't the only top tier program to "lay an egg" in a bowl game in the past. Take a look at what Miami(Fl) did to Nebraska, or USC did to Oklahoma.

I just happen to think it's ridiculous to say that because any team lays an egg in a bowl game that it is somehow a bad reflection on their season and schedule. It happens. And not just to OSU.

Sea Ray
12-15-2009, 10:20 AM
Exactly! And one can easily make that contention about ANY of the the teams. And that competition faced one of the nation's top rushing defenses and for the most part, except for Navy, got shut down and beat.

These weren't sorry offenses. That's my point.



Was OSU embarrassed last year in the Tostito's Fiesta Bowl vs #3 Texas?

If OSU "lays an egg" (whatever that means) then the only thing it proves is that OSU "laid an egg". Nothing more.

And there are teams ranked higher then OSU whose schedule was just as "soft", if not softer. TCU's was 75th, Boise State's was 92nd, the Bearcats was 42nd. Why just pick on OSU?

I fully agree that OSU needs to make a statement in this game. I just think they (their program) gets too much undue criticism for those two NC games.

They aren't the only top tier program to "lay an egg" in a bowl game in the past. Take a look at what Miami(Fl) did to Nebraska, or USC did to Oklahoma.

I just happen to think it's ridiculous to say that because any team lays an egg in a bowl game that it is somehow a bad reflection on their season and schedule. It happens. And not just to OSU.


First of all, the reason I'm "picking on OSU" is because of the title of this thread. It wouldn't make much sense to criticize TCU's schedule here. Why do you keep going back to OSU's schedule anyway? Did you not read my post where I said it's not about OSU's schedule? Since you feel the need to defend their schedule, why throw out a Mountain West school, a WAC school and little UC? Those schools don't have the resources of OSU.

If you don't know what "lays an egg" means, plug a tape in of OSU's NC games vs FL or LSU or their USC game last year. You are correct. OSU is not the only team to get blown up in a Bowl game. I'm sure those schools get drilled in their local press afterwards too.

The reality of the situation is this. OSU is playing the PAC 10 champion. They've already lost at home to the #5 PAC 10 team. If they don't have a good showing against Oregon, it'll not reflect well on the Big Ten.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-15-2009, 10:45 AM
The reality of the situation is this. OSU is playing the PAC 10 champion. They've already lost at home to the #5 PAC 10 team. If they don't have a good showing against Oregon, it'll not reflect well on the Big Ten.

And if they do have a good showing against Oregon, it won't change the minds of people like you regarding the state of OSU and the Big Ten. You already have your mind made up.

Texas was arguably the best team in the country last year and worthy of the NC game. OSU had a "good showing" against them and it still didn't matter.

That's the reality of the situation.

jimbo
12-15-2009, 10:52 AM
If you don't know what "lays an egg" means, plug a tape in of OSU's NC games vs FL or LSU or their USC game last year.

As a Buckeye fan, the only one of those three games I felt "embarrassed" about, or thought they "laid an egg" in was the Florida game. They went in as the favorite and got their clocks cleaned.

The LSU game has been debated enough. It was a game that Ohio State didn't belong in, but got in by default because none of the other teams at the top were able to take care of business leading up to bowl selection.

As far as the USC game, the Buckeyes were in transition with their quarterback position and playing on the road. I wasn't expecting a win. Just because it was a blowout, it didn't leave me feeling "embarrassed." They ended up being a much better team by the end of the season, which the Texas game demonstrated. Laying an egg would be more suited to characterize getting beat in a game when you are 41 point favorite (USC losing to Stanford in 2007). That's what I would call an embarrassment.


The reality of the situation is this. OSU is playing the PAC 10 champion. They've already lost at home to the #5 PAC 10 team. If they don't have a good showing against Oregon, it'll not reflect well on the Big Ten.

This is just another over exaggeration, IMO. According to many outsiders, nothing reflects well on the Big Ten these days. A Buckeye win or loss will do nothing to change that perception, at least not this season. If Ohio State wins, the spin will be that Oregon was overrated. We heard the same spin last season after the Texas game. Many thought Texas should have been in the championship game, but because Ohio State played them tough, they obviously didn't belong. Nobody wanted to consider the possibility that maybe Ohio State was a much improved team than they were at the beginning of the season, and maybe a bit underrated.

Roy Tucker
12-15-2009, 11:28 AM
It will be the best and most diversified offense OSU has seen this year. It will be a real test.

The Buckeye CBs will have to cover well since they'll get isolated a lot. They'll have to make sure 1-on-1 tackles and keep 3-5 yard gains from becoming 15-25 yard gains.

If the OSU defensive line plays like its capable of (one of the best in the country), I think they can control and slow down the Oregon offense.

Frankly, I'm more worried about the OSU offense.

Sea Ray
12-15-2009, 12:03 PM
And if they do have a good showing against Oregon, it won't change the minds of people like you regarding the state of OSU and the Big Ten. You already have your mind made up.

Texas was arguably the best team in the country last year and worthy of the NC game. OSU had a "good showing" against them and it still didn't matter.

That's the reality of the situation.

If they beat Oregon I'll tip my cap to them. As for Texas, OSU lost like most of the Big Ten did in Bowl games last year.

As for you, I'd suggest you not get into the business of saying what other people will do. You don't know me nor what my "mind" is going to do...

Sea Ray
12-15-2009, 12:09 PM
According to many outsiders, nothing reflects well on the Big Ten these days.

Wins in big games will reflect well on the Big Ten. I realize we haven't been able to test that novel idea in recent history but...

Spring~Fields
12-15-2009, 12:39 PM
They aren't the only top tier program to "lay an egg" in a bowl game in the past. Take a look at what Miami(Fl) did to Nebraska, or USC did to Oklahoma.

I just happen to think it's ridiculous to say that because any team lays an egg in a bowl game that it is somehow a bad reflection on their season and schedule. It happens. And not just to OSU.

We all blow it off, but, the long layoff’s from live action from the end of the Ohio State or other programs season to the bowl games doesn’t help anything either. Then travel across the country to what is almost a season opener after setting around for weeks and practicing. I think teams get more from live play than practices in the way of being ready for the next game.

I am not sure why other than tradition that the bowl games have to be written in stone and be scheduled so far from the regular season. A one or two week frame would be plenty to be off from the regular season and then play the bowl games.

Scrap Irony
12-15-2009, 01:00 PM
I've seen two Duck games this season and they look fast, but small. OSU is big and may be able to dominate the LOS. I expect big plays to be the key. Oregon is really good at big plays. OSU has struggled to some extent against the big play.

OSU has the size advantage, their fans insist they're just as fast, and they play in a tough conference and are used to big games. They should be prohibitively favored, if so, right?

gonelong
12-15-2009, 04:24 PM
We all blow it off, but, the long layoff’s from live action from the end of the Ohio State or other programs season to the bowl games doesn’t help anything either. Then travel across the country to what is almost a season opener after setting around for weeks and practicing. I think teams get more from live play than practices in the way of being ready for the next game.

Not to mention the Big10 has a large number of teams that travel well so they tend to end up in more prestigious bowl games (against stiffer competition) than their record would dictate. More often than not, the Big10 is playing a similarly ranked, or higher ranked opponent in their bowls, while traveling across the country (often playing in the opponents backyard), and after a long layoff. I am not complaining about this, nor offering it as an "excuse", as much of it is the Big10s own doing. It just "is" at this point.

The Big10 has dropped the ball a bit in the age of the BCS. They need to add a team, and add a conference championship game. I think it will take a bit of time to develop, but it seems they are headed that way.

I can see why they are reluctant to mess with OSU/Mich, but the game has lost a lot of luster over the last decade or so. Split them into separate divisions, let them play about the 2nd week of the season, and then they will often meet up in the conference championship game again anyway. It's a risk, no doubt.

GL

bucksfan2
12-15-2009, 04:28 PM
Not to mention the Big10 has a large number of teams that travel well so they tend to end up in more prestigious bowl games (against stiffer competition) than their record would dictate. More often than not, the Big10 is playing a similarly ranked, or higher ranked opponent in their bowls, while traveling across the country (often playing in the opponents backyard), and after a long layoff. I am not complaining about this, nor offering it as an "excuse", as much of it is the Big10s own doing. It just "is" at this point.

The Big10 has dropped the ball a bit in the age of the BCS. They need to add a team, and add a conference championship game. I think it will take a bit of time to develop, but it seems they are headed that way.

I can see why they are reluctant to mess with OSU/Mich, but the game has lost a lot of luster over the last decade or so. Split them into separate divisions, let them play about the 2nd week of the season, and then they will often meet up in the conference championship game again anyway. It's a risk, no doubt.

GL

You make fair points with the exception of the game losing its luster. In 06 it was a match up of the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country fighting to go the the title game. In 02 it was a good UM team trying to derail OSU's perfect season. Even as late as 07 it was for the Big 10 title. Rich Rod has hurt the rivalry, but that has only been in the past 2 years, not over the past decade.

GAC
12-15-2009, 05:36 PM
First of all, the reason I'm "picking on OSU" is because of the title of this thread.

The title is not an invitation to "pick" on OSU. Certainly not saying posters can't; but the title doesn't imply that.

You simply do it because you can't stand OSU. And that's fine. No problem. I've hated PAC-10 teams for close to 40 years. And it's primarily rooted in the Rose Bowl rivalry. In baseball I hate the Dodgers and Cubs. So I have no problem when someone says they can't stand a particular team.

But when that "hatred" appears to be such an evident driving force that causes one to not show any sense of objectivity, which you purposely don't demonstrate when it comes to OSU, then don't be surprised when you get corrected when in error.

The earth would probably stop in it's rotation for you to ever say anything positive about the OSU program.


Why do you keep going back to OSU's schedule anyway? Did you not read my post where I said it's not about OSU's schedule?

When YOU contended that if OSU lays an egg vs Oregon that therefore proves they played sorry offenses, then wouldn't that be alluding to their regular season schedule, which was comprised of such teams?


Since you feel the need to defend their schedule, why throw out a Mountain West school, a WAC school and little UC? Those schools don't have the resources of OSU. It wouldn't make much sense to criticize TCU's schedule here.

They don't have the resources of an OSU? What does that mean? What resources are they lacking? If "resources" refers to talent, as well as the coaching - what it takes to win/succeed - then programs like TCU, Boise State, and Cincy, must have it. The "size" of one's program, at least not in today's environment, has very little factor anymore.

And I wasn't criticizing TCU's schedule. Only showing how ridiculous your contention is with your slighting reference to OSUs "soft" #50 SoS. If OSU's SoS is important, then why not those teams who finished ABOVE them in the polling whose SoS was comparable or even far worse?

And should teams, especially those "bigger" schools, be upset because even though they may have incurred one or two losses during the season, it was because their far superior and harder SoS pitted them against tougher competition?

What do you think the minimum standard or threshold for SoS should be for those "bigger", more established schools, whether it's OSU, USC, LSU, Oklahoma, or whoever?

You know as well as I do that any team really can't control their SoS rating, where it will fall. All they can do is win. They have no control over how that opposition themselves may do in their other games that affect SoS. It goes up and down as the season progresses.

Sea Ray
12-15-2009, 06:04 PM
The title is not an invitation to "pick" on OSU. Certainly not saying posters can't; but the title doesn't imply that.

You simply do it because you can't stand OSU. And that's fine. No problem. I've hated PAC-10 teams for close to 40 years. And it's primarily rooted in the Rose Bowl rivalry. In baseball I hate the Dodgers and Cubs. So I have no problem when someone says they can't stand a particular team.

But when that "hatred" appears to be such an evident driving force that causes one to not show any sense of objectivity, which you purposely don't demonstrate when it comes to OSU, then don't be surprised when you get corrected when in error.

The earth would probably stop in it's rotation for you to ever say anything positive about the OSU program.



When YOU contended that if OSU lays an egg vs Oregon that therefore proves they played sorry offenses, then wouldn't that be alluding to their regular season schedule, which was comprised of such teams?



They don't have the resources of an OSU? What does that mean? What resources are they lacking? If "resources" refers to talent, as well as the coaching - what it takes to win/succeed - then programs like TCU, Boise State, and Cincy, must have it. The "size" of one's program, at least not in today's environment, has very little factor anymore.

And I wasn't criticizing TCU's schedule. Only showing how ridiculous your contention is with your slighting reference to OSUs "soft" #50 SoS. If OSU's SoS is important, then why not those teams who finished ABOVE them in the polling whose SoS was comparable or even far worse?

And should teams, especially those "bigger" schools, be upset because even though they may have incurred one or two losses during the season, it was because their far superior and harder SoS pitted them against tougher competition?

What do you think the minimum standard or threshold for SoS should be for those "bigger", more established schools, whether it's OSU, USC, LSU, Oklahoma, or whoever?

You know as well as I do that any team really can't control their SoS rating, where it will fall. All they can do is win. They have no control over how that opposition themselves may do in their other games that affect SoS. It goes up and down as the season progresses.


Once again you've spent the bulk of your post talking about scheduling. I've addressed this twice in this thread and I won't do it a third time.

What I meant by "resources" are things like stadium size, tradition, recruiting.


As for the rest of your post, it has to do with me personally and whether I "hate" OSU. Such discussions have no business being in this thread. I'll be happy to discuss OSU football on its merits but I won't discuss personal bias other than what I've stated already. :nono:

Everytime someone brings up personal bias or agendas, it shows a weakness in his case.

Spring~Fields
12-15-2009, 08:21 PM
Everytime someone brings up personal bias or agendas, it shows a weakness in his case.

I am not sure I understand your use of those terms in that context.

What text book did you get that out of? I would like to read that in it's entire context.

Question:
If it is not for your personal bias then what motivates your agenda regarding Ohio State? Isn't personal bias going to show a weakness in his case, as your bias toward Ohio State?

I have a negative bias towards Ohio States and the other large elite football programs schedules too. Now if that strongly shows throughout my discussion or arguments, doesn't that weaken my arguments and tend to discredit them or cause them to be discounted? As they should be? Kind of like we would or should political spin doctors.

Isn't our personal biases going to cause us to filter, and to have even more confirmation biases, such might be the case for you or me if Ohio State gets blown away, ah ha, see they did play a soft schedule and are not what they are represented to be, confirmation bias, doesn't make it objective facts.

Correlation does not prove causation

Spring~Fields
12-15-2009, 08:28 PM
Not to mention the Big10 has a large number of teams that travel well so they tend to end up in more prestigious bowl games (against stiffer competition) than their record would dictate. More often than not, the Big10 is playing a similarly ranked, or higher ranked opponent in their bowls, while traveling across the country (often playing in the opponents backyard), and after a long layoff. I am not complaining about this, nor offering it as an "excuse", as much of it is the Big10s own doing. It just "is" at this point.

The Big10 has dropped the ball a bit in the age of the BCS. They need to add a team, and add a conference championship game. I think it will take a bit of time to develop, but it seems they are headed that way.

I can see why they are reluctant to mess with OSU/Mich, but the game has lost a lot of luster over the last decade or so. Split them into separate divisions, let them play about the 2nd week of the season, and then they will often meet up in the conference championship game again anyway. It's a risk, no doubt.

GL

Real good points, and more than I had thought of. Thanks GL for that input.

GAC
12-16-2009, 05:40 AM
Once again you've spent the bulk of your post talking about scheduling. I've addressed this twice in this thread and I won't do it a third time.

And I won't belabor the point further either. Only to say that your previous knock on OSU has been the quality of the competition they play, whether in conference or OOC games. And that involves schedules. If one takes scheduling out of the argument/discussion, then what beef do they have?


What I meant by "resources" are things like stadium size, tradition, recruiting.

That may, at some point, been a huge advantage for the traditional powerhouses, but IMO, not so much any more. That gap has been closing for many years now as more and more monies are being thrown at those so-called "smaller" schools. Especially in the area of recruiting. It's obvious that schoolds like Cincy, TCU, Boise State, and many, many others, certainly have been able to recruit the talent.


Every time someone brings up personal bias or agendas, it shows a weakness in his case.

Because your personal bias is very evident in your positions on OSU. I've posted numbers/stats to refute some of your earlier weak contentions against OSU and the opponents they have faced.

traderumor
12-16-2009, 09:33 AM
Everytime someone brings up personal bias or agendas, it shows a weakness in his case.Everyone has their biases, and an agenda will also impair one's objectivity. Pointing out those biases and/or agendas allows the reader to decide if the argument is likely to be objective. We all wear glasses, no one has perfect vision with which we form our opinions. It is fair game to point out the dog one has in the hunt in a discussion.

For example, if I criticize the OSU program as an OSU fan, my bias could actually be viewed as more objective than the fan of another program's criticism. But of course, one would have to evaluate if the criticism is agenda driven because of some personal issue that that the individual has with the organization he is criticizing.

Roy Tucker
12-16-2009, 10:13 AM
Lord love a duck.

Some people have a burr in their saddle about OSU and some people think they can do no wrong. These things won't change.

Can we talk football?

Sea Ray
12-16-2009, 10:49 AM
Lord love a duck.

Some people have a burr in their saddle about OSU and some people think they can do no wrong. These things won't change.

Can we talk football?

Interesting choice of birds given the teams involved...:)

Obviously the folks on this thread don't want to talk football so I'm going to move my thoughts to the other Rose Bowl thread just started this morning. In that one someone's already mentioned the possibility of the Bucks being "embarrassed again" so I won't get accused of being a Buckeye hater for agreeing with him/her. Later...

Chip R
12-16-2009, 10:54 AM
Lord love a duck.

Some people have a burr in their saddle about OSU and some people think they can do no wrong. These things won't change.

Can we talk football?

I suppose not because evidently people have problems reading a warning from a moderator.

This thread is closed.

4 words. 1 syllable each. You people should be able to understand that.