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Chip R
12-10-2009, 10:24 PM
What in the heck is happening in Cleveland? It's 13-3 Browns with a little more than 3 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. :eek:

traderumor
12-10-2009, 10:29 PM
The Steelers have officially tanked it. I really feel bad for the team and their fans :p:

CTA513
12-10-2009, 10:31 PM
Ben has now been sacked 7 times tonight.

:laugh:

GIDP
12-10-2009, 10:32 PM
Tonight is the night that Steeler fans "retire" for the year. Die hards until they arent.

Degenerate39
12-10-2009, 10:49 PM
Lovin every minute of it

HeatherC1212
12-10-2009, 10:51 PM
OK, after all this BK-UC-Notre Dame crap this week, I REALLY needed to hear news like this to cheer me up, LOL :laugh:

Go Browns!! ;)

Chip R
12-10-2009, 11:17 PM
It's over. Browns win 13-6.

Playadlc
12-10-2009, 11:19 PM
Nice win for the Browns.

Watching the Steelers slide is a lot of fun.

BUTLER REDSFAN
12-10-2009, 11:20 PM
Uh....Didn't the Bengals just clinch the division? I thought there would be more excitement than this?

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Uh....Didn't the Bengals just clinch the division? I thought there would be more excitement than this?

No Ravens still have to lose or Bengals still have to win.

Playadlc
12-10-2009, 11:21 PM
Uh....Didn't the Bengals just clinch the division? I thought there would be more excitement than this?

No. Baltimore is still 6-6. 1 more Baltimore loss or 1 more Cincinnati win and the division is clinched.

CTA513
12-10-2009, 11:26 PM
Tomlin wanted to unleash hell this month and it looks like he shouldn't have unleashed it.
5 straight losses and the last 3 came against Kansas City, Oakland and Cleveland.

Can't be good for that Steelers locker room.


:evil:

GIDP
12-10-2009, 11:27 PM
Tomlin wanted to unleash hell this month and it looks like he shouldn't have unleashed it. 5 straight loses and the last 3 came against Kansas City, Oakland and Cleveland.

Can't be good for that Steelers locker room.


:evil:

No one in pitt cares anymore. 3 friends of mine that are steeler fans all have texted me something along the lines of how they are done caring for the year.

HeatherC1212
12-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Tomlin wanted to unleash hell this month and it looks like he shouldn't have unleashed it.
5 straight losses and the last 3 came against Kansas City, Oakland and Cleveland.

Can't be good for that Steelers locker room.

:evil:

Maybe he meant that they were going to unleash it on their own fans, LOL :laugh:

redsfandan
12-11-2009, 12:47 AM
Tomlin wanted to unleash hell this month and it looks like he shouldn't have unleashed it.
5 straight losses and the last 3 came against Kansas City, Oakland and Cleveland.

Can't be good for that Steelers locker room.


:evil:
If someone would've told me before the season that the Steelers would've lost to those three teams and had a 6-7 record at this point I would've laughed.

GAC
12-11-2009, 05:36 AM
Ben has now been sacked 7 times tonight.

:laugh:

Make that 8.

I was lovin' every minute of it. Can't wait to get to work this morning. There's a guy on the line who was giving Brown fans all kinds of grief this week, and runnin' his mouth. I didn't say anything, and let's be honest..... Brown fans don't have much to be happy about. But he made over $400 worth of bets.

But ya gotta love beatin' the Squealers!

I'm not the biggest Mangini fan; but you have to give him the opportunity to turn this program around. He cleaned out some players and attitudes over the past off-season, and they are a relatively young team.

And I like Ryan as defensive coordinator.

And regardless of how bad this team is this year, one thing I've noticed is that the players do play hard and don't give up. And in the second half of the season I have seen progress with this team, regardless of the W-L record.

We need a playmaker or two on the offensive side. Especially in the receiver corp. And we need to shore up our run defense. But I am optimistic about this team going forth.

And we get 11 draft picks this year. So we'll see.

But for cryin' out loud...... PAY CRIBBS DA' MONEY!!!!!!

traderumor
12-11-2009, 06:30 AM
Well, now the Pittsburgh fans can start focusing on the Pirates a little early this year. Hey, you guys just signed Bobby Crosby!

Sea Ray
12-11-2009, 09:10 AM
If someone would've told me before the season that the Steelers would've lost to those three teams and had a 6-7 record at this point I would've laughed.

Post Super Bowl hangover. In order to win a Super Bowl a lot of things have to go right and often those breaks even out the next year. The Steelers have gotten a lot of bad breaks this year.

I also think their O-coordinator needs to go.

flyer85
12-11-2009, 09:16 AM
I guess the give em hell plant hasn't worked

Hoosier Red
12-11-2009, 09:19 AM
As I told all my Steeler fans. They've sure looked like hell the last two weeks.

traderumor
12-11-2009, 09:22 AM
Post Super Bowl hangover. In order to win a Super Bowl a lot of things have to go right and often those breaks even out the next year. The Steelers have gotten a lot of bad breaks this year.

I also think their O-coordinator needs to go.And, no matter how much any team tries to deny it, keeping that edge after reaching the pinnacle is the downfall of many teams who won a championship in the prior year. That, and players start getting too big for their britches. Throw in the unavoidable injuries, exacerbated by the key player injuries, like your QB both on O and D, and suddenly a good team is very ordinary.

WVRed
12-11-2009, 10:36 AM
Pittsburgh has gotten away from what has made them successful in the past, a solid running game and clock control. I know nobody outside of the Steel City would admit this, but I see a problem with one of two people, Mike Tomlin or Ben Roethlisberger.

IMO Big Ben is trying to be the superhero and control the game. Tomlin has gotten away from the approach that has made them so successful so it really makes me wonder if it is trying to appease Roethlisberger or a coaching blunder.

I'd say a new QB is more likely given the concussion history. Can't see the Steelers burning a first round pick there though. Just curious what Steeler fans think.

Highlifeman21
12-11-2009, 02:07 PM
Ben has now been sacked 7 times tonight.

:laugh:

He really holds onto the ball way too long

Yachtzee
12-11-2009, 05:08 PM
If someone would've told me before the season that the Steelers would've lost to those three teams and had a 6-7 record at this point I would've laughed.

If someone had told me they would have been swept by a 9-3 Bengals team this season, I would have said "Keep dreaming." And I'm a Bengals fan.

KoryMac5
12-11-2009, 06:29 PM
Sure looks like Pittsburgh has quit on both Tomlin and Big Ben. They definitely didn't show up last night in Cleveland, plus that O line let Burger take a beating. Eight sacks, wow even for a QB that holds on to the ball a long time that sure is a lot. Makes me wonder if there are some tensions behind the scenes.

cincrazy
12-11-2009, 11:10 PM
Sure looks like Pittsburgh has quit on both Tomlin and Big Ben. They definitely didn't show up last night in Cleveland, plus that O line let Burger take a beating. Eight sacks, wow even for a QB that holds on to the ball a long time that sure is a lot. Makes me wonder if there are some tensions behind the scenes.

I don't think they've quit. They're only a few plays away from being 9-4 or so, so I don't think too much can be read into this streak. It's a bad streak, but it happens. Especially coming off a Super Bowl win, coupled with a ton of injuries.

I'm not making excuses for them, I delight in their misery. But I wouldn't question their heart, as many have done.

GIDP
12-11-2009, 11:16 PM
I don't think they've quit. They're only a few plays away from being 9-4 or so, so I don't think too much can be read into this streak. It's a bad streak, but it happens. Especially coming off a Super Bowl win, coupled with a ton of injuries.

I'm not making excuses for them, I delight in their misery. But I wouldn't question their heart, as many have done.

Dang. That means the Bengals are a few plays from being 11-1. :)

cincrazy
12-11-2009, 11:20 PM
Dang. That means the Bengals are a few plays from being 11-1. :)

And a few plays from being 5-7 ;).

Really, the Bengals and Steelers season's have been separted by merely a handful of plays. A few plays go this way, and a few more that way, and the roles are reversed. It takes a lot of skill, a lot of hard work, and a certain amount of luck. Luckily, this happens to be our year.

GAC
12-12-2009, 04:47 AM
I don't think they've quit. They're only a few plays away from being 9-4 or so, so I don't think too much can be read into this streak. It's a bad streak, but it happens. Especially coming off a Super Bowl win, coupled with a ton of injuries.

That, in and of itself, has hurt them big time this year. I don't think they are panicking in Pittsburgh because of an off year.

I wish my Browns could have an off year like that. :cool:

Sea Ray
12-12-2009, 08:14 AM
I don't think they've quit. They're only a few plays away from being 9-4 or so, so I don't think too much can be read into this streak. It's a bad streak, but it happens. Especially coming off a Super Bowl win, coupled with a ton of injuries.

I'm not making excuses for them, I delight in their misery. But I wouldn't question their heart, as many have done.

Well then what's happened? How can a team that's beaten Denver, Minnesota and San Diego lose to KC, Oakland and Cleveland? Something has changed.

cincrazy
12-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Well then what's happened? How can a team that's beaten Denver, Minnesota and San Diego lose to KC, Oakland and Cleveland? Something has changed.

Injuries, quite simply. Not to mention the fact that it's the NFL, and losing to any team in any given week isn't too much of a shock. The Chiefs, Raiders and Browns have rosters chock full of guys who are professionals at what they do, and are among the best in the world at what they do. All three of those teams have shown improvement since the beginning of the season. That's not to say Pittsburgh shouldn't be kicking themselves for losing to them, but I don't question their heart or effort one bit.

Dom Heffner
12-12-2009, 08:28 AM
Well then what's happened? How can a team that's beaten Denver, Minnesota and San Diego lose to KC, Oakland and Cleveland? Something has changed.

They did have Polamalu in two of those three games they won, and in none of those games they lost.

As well, they've been a questionable bunch all year- they lost to the Bears in week two, barely beat a Titans team that went on to lose its first 6 games.

Sea Ray
12-12-2009, 09:10 AM
Injuries, quite simply. Not to mention the fact that it's the NFL, and losing to any team in any given week isn't too much of a shock. The Chiefs, Raiders and Browns have rosters chock full of guys who are professionals at what they do, and are among the best in the world at what they do. All three of those teams have shown improvement since the beginning of the season. That's not to say Pittsburgh shouldn't be kicking themselves for losing to them, but I don't question their heart or effort one bit.

Injuries didn't cause Roethlisberger to be sacked 8 times by a team that only had 24 coming into the game. Troy P was a big injury but there's more to it than that.

What's their O-coordinator up to putting ben in shot gun on third and one with those kind of weather conditions on Thursday Night?

This is not the same team it was earlier in the year.

Chip R
12-12-2009, 09:36 AM
I'm just speculating here but I wonder if Big Ben's play has been affected by that concussion he suffered. He had an OK game against OAK but the CLE game was a disaster. I know when Tebow had his concusson he struggled for a few games when he returned. Of course Kurt Warner picked up where he left off so who knows.

redalways
12-12-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm just speculating here but I wonder if Big Ben's play has been affected by that concussion he suffered. He had an OK game against OAK but the CLE game was a disaster. I know when Tebow had his concusson he struggled for a few games when he returned. Of course Kurt Warner picked up where he left off so who knows.

Injuries happen. Its just the nature of the NFL. As for the Steelers I don't think Big Ben is right. The OLine was never good but Big Ben could always improvise. This year he has been unable to do so. He has been going down easier and hasn't made many mobility plays.

Revering4Blue
12-12-2009, 11:01 AM
Bulk of Pittsburgh blame rest with Arians
Posted by Mike Florio on December 12, 2009 9:14 AM ET
With the entire coaching staff returning and 19 of 22 starters in place to begin the year, the Steelers were expected to make a serious run at accomplishing the thing that the Steelers of the 1970s did twice -- win back-to-back Super Bowls.

A 6-2 start to the season only reinforced the belief that the Steelers would be right in the thick of things come January, and possibly February.

Though a return to the postseason is still not impossible, it's highly unlikely at this point.

So what's wrong with this team? We devoted Friday's PFT Daily exclusively to the subject, and there surely will be much discussion and debate in and beyond Pittsburgh regarding the things that need to be done to get the franchise back on track.

But here's the most obvious fix -- bid farewell to offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

Arians has lived by the pass and, particularly on Thursday night in Cleveland, died by it. As John Harris of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review points out, the Steelers' first two drives of the game ended with sacks of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who lined up in shotgun formation on third and short.

"You figure that is a run down," tackle Willie Colon said, per Harris. "[T]hat's usually a down for our running backs."

But not with Bruce Arians, who has turned the notion of Steeler football on its head by throwing the ball in such circumstances. Or, more accurately, by not throwing the ball because Roethlisberger again held the ball way too long.

Big Ben isn't blameless here. On third and short from shotgun formation, there's no excuse to not get rid of the ball quickly. Standing five yards back from the line, he's in great position to check the coverages, adjust a route or two if needed, and put a guy in position to have the ball in his hands before Colon or any other member of the offensive line is getting another green stain on the seat of his yellow pants.

By Week 14, however, Arians needs to factor his quarterback's tendencies into the plays that are called. And with the running game working (as it was early Thursday night), there's no reason to pass -- from shotgun -- on two straight third downs to start the game.

Coach Mike Tomlin has the ultimately responsibility for the offense and defense, but that Super Bowl trophy and a strong aversion by the franchise to changing coaches guarantees that Tomlin and "hot seat" won't be used in the same sentence until he is well into his 40s, at the earliest.

But Tomlin can, and should, hold members of his staff accountable -- especially those members of his staff that he inherited.

In order to get back to Steeler football, Arians needs to go.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/12/bulk-of-pittsburgh-blame-rest-with-arians/

A legitimate question Steeler fans and Steeler haters alike should be asking:

Why are the Steelers not utilizing Dennis Dixon as the Browns are utilizing Joshua Cribbs?

Just curious.

Yachtzee
12-12-2009, 11:05 AM
Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

Revering4Blue
12-12-2009, 11:14 AM
Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

Exactly.

Also, the assertion that that the Bengals' 9-3 record is largely the result of beating up on mediocre/poor divisional foes doesn't hold water, IMO.

As a point of comparison, the AFC East isn't exactly murderer's row.The 7-5 Patriots should be running away with this division, but, as of now, they are not.

DTCromer
12-12-2009, 12:21 PM
Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

Keith Rivers isn't that big of a loss, IMO. Have you ever seen him dominate any game he's played in? In fact, he's been dominated more (see Hines Ward) than make any type of dominating impact.

Roy Williams: Really? Was he THAT big of a loss?

Chris Henry: He did basically nothing this year.

Peko: One of the bigger losses on the team. He'll be back, but the Bengals need him there.

Kelly: IMO, THE biggest loss on the team this year. Don't underestimate what he means to the running game.

Odom: Obviously a big loss, but Fanene and others have stepped up so no big loss there. 1 more injury there, and the Bengals are hurting.


Polamalu is one of the best players on defense in the NFL. The Steelers secondary, sans Troy, has always been questionable, but he changes EVERYTHING on that defense. He hasn't been the sole reason why they've struggled, but a HUGE part. Where it really hurts is the Redzone for that team. Their defense has still been good, but it's not the same.

Yes, every team has injuries but the Steelers losing their top 2 guys on the depth chart at DE and Polamalu has hurt their team more than the Bengals.


Exactly.

Also, the assertion that that the Bengals' 9-3 record is largely the result of beating up on mediocre/poor divisional foes doesn't hold water, IMO.

As a point of comparison, the AFC East isn't exactly murderer's row.The 7-5 Patriots should be running away with this division, but, as of now, they are not.

According to Jeff Sagarin, the Bengals schedule isn't even comparable to the Patriots. 5th toughest for the Patriots and 29th for the Bengals. WHile the Patriots have played both undefeated teams in the NFL (should've won 1, but should've's don't count) the Bengals have benefitted from an EASY schedule. Next year will be different including playing all of the Patriots, Chargers, and Colts. This team is simply surviving on some fortunate plays and an easy schedule.

Obviously, their schedule strength will rise the next 2 weeks playing the Chargers/Vikings, but by the end of the year, the Patriots schedule will be drastically better than the Bengals.

Sea Ray
12-12-2009, 02:41 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/12/bulk-of-pittsburgh-blame-rest-with-arians/

A legitimate question Steeler fans and Steeler haters alike should be asking:

Why are the Steelers not utilizing Dennis Dixon as the Browns are utilizing Joshua Cribbs?

Just curious.

Hmmm. Florio must be reading Redszone and taking his tips from that Sea Ray guy. He's not blaming injuries. He's blaming the O-coordinator

Sea Ray
12-12-2009, 02:46 PM
According to Jeff Sagarin, the Bengals schedule isn't even comparable to the Patriots. 5th toughest for the Patriots and 29th for the Bengals. WHile the Patriots have played both undefeated teams in the NFL (should've won 1, but should've's don't count) the Bengals have benefitted from an EASY schedule. Next year will be different including playing all of the Patriots, Chargers, and Colts. This team is simply surviving on some fortunate plays and an easy schedule.

Obviously, their schedule strength will rise the next 2 weeks playing the Chargers/Vikings, but by the end of the year, the Patriots schedule will be drastically better than the Bengals.


Sagrin can't really figure strength of schedule because a team in Sept isn't the same team as Dec. The Steelers are a great example. They were a much better team when the Bengals beat them. The Titans are much better now than Sept. Ditto for the Chargers. If not for the Bengals, the Steelers and Ravens would be playoff contenders now. Those losses took a toll on them.

This has not been an easy schedule although there have been tougher ones

traderumor
12-12-2009, 05:28 PM
Keith Rivers isn't that big of a loss, IMO. Have you ever seen him dominate any game he's played in? In fact, he's been dominated more (see Hines Ward) than make any type of dominating impact.

Roy Williams: Really? Was he THAT big of a loss?

Chris Henry: He did basically nothing this year.

Peko: One of the bigger losses on the team. He'll be back, but the Bengals need him there.

Kelly: IMO, THE biggest loss on the team this year. Don't underestimate what he means to the running game.

Odom: Obviously a big loss, but Fanene and others have stepped up so no big loss there. 1 more injury there, and the Bengals are hurting.


Polamalu is one of the best players on defense in the NFL. The Steelers secondary, sans Troy, has always been questionable, but he changes EVERYTHING on that defense. He hasn't been the sole reason why they've struggled, but a HUGE part. Where it really hurts is the Redzone for that team. Their defense has still been good, but it's not the same.

Yes, every team has injuries but the Steelers losing their top 2 guys on the depth chart at DE and Polamalu has hurt their team more than the Bengals.



According to Jeff Sagarin, the Bengals schedule isn't even comparable to the Patriots. 5th toughest for the Patriots and 29th for the Bengals. WHile the Patriots have played both undefeated teams in the NFL (should've won 1, but should've's don't count) the Bengals have benefitted from an EASY schedule. Next year will be different including playing all of the Patriots, Chargers, and Colts. This team is simply surviving on some fortunate plays and an easy schedule.

Obviously, their schedule strength will rise the next 2 weeks playing the Chargers/Vikings, but by the end of the year, the Patriots schedule will be drastically better than the Bengals.The Bengals are just playing the games the NFL scheduled for them. Strength of schedule arguments are fussing about the luck of the draw. Making conclusions about what it means is even shakier.

cincrazy
12-12-2009, 05:42 PM
Injuries didn't cause Roethlisberger to be sacked 8 times by a team that only had 24 coming into the game. Troy P was a big injury but there's more to it than that.

What's their O-coordinator up to putting ben in shot gun on third and one with those kind of weather conditions on Thursday Night?

This is not the same team it was earlier in the year.

Oh there's no question that it's not the same team as it was earlier in the year. My only argument is that they're not "quitting." Maybe they're discouraged and down on their luck, but I don't think anyone is giving less of an effort. They have serious problems, and they've had them all year. The problems are finally catching up to them. Lack of a consistent run game, bad offensive line, QB who holds the ball to long, and an injury plagued defense. I know that you can't use injuries as the only excuse, but they lost one of the best defensive end's in the game in Aaron Smith, and arguably the best safety in football in Polamalu.

WebScorpion
12-13-2009, 03:23 AM
Personally, I think Big Ben has become the new Steve Young. He can't play more than a few games without getting another concussion. Ever since the motorcycle accident (try driving your head through a windshield from the outside at 35mph+) he's become a concussion risk. It's a medical fact that each successive concussion makes you more of a concussion risk than the previous one. Then after he gets decked a few times he doesn't seem to think as quickly. Most NFL QBs get rid of the ball just before they get clobbered, so any delay makes a huge difference. I think his career will be drastically shortened. It's a shame because he was the most durable QB I'd seen in a while. Wear a helmet kids! :(

camisadelgolf
12-13-2009, 04:34 AM
What bugs me is that concussions are going to end Worthlessberger's career prematurely, and then everyone is going to exaggerate what a great career he would've had when in reality, he's nowhere near as good of a quarterback as the ones he will be compared to.

And yes, I'm very, very biased.

GAC
12-13-2009, 06:30 AM
Every team has injuries. The Bengals have lost Antwan Odom, Roy Williams, and Chris Henry for the year. They've seen Keith Rivers miss significant time and had Chris Crocker sit out as well. Domato Peko has been hurt. They lost the top two tight ends on their depth chart before the season even started. If losing Polamalu is enough to cause their season to go in the tank, then they weren't very good this season to begin with.

Exactly.

And the Browns have been playing without some very key defensive players, especially in that Thursday night game..... Rogers, Poole, Coleman were all out.

We had a guy playing out of position at safety for cryin' out loud!.

11larkin11
12-13-2009, 04:33 PM
Exactly.

And the Browns have been playing without some very key defensive players, especially in that Thursday night game..... Rogers, Poole, Coleman were all out.

We had a guy playing out of position at safety for cryin' out loud!.

Yep. We have lost our opening day starter at WILB, SILB, FS, NT, DE, RB. Not to mention Tucker before the season, Braylon trade (good trade, though), our starting OLB now at ILB, new starting DE. We have a WR playing safety, two guys that were promoted from the practice squad with four sacks Thursday, a guy picked up off waivers at the other OLB, a special teamer playing ILB/OLB. Rob Ryan should be coach of the year for what he did Thursday with all those scrubs*.

*joke

Sea Ray
12-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Oh there's no question that it's not the same team as it was earlier in the year. My only argument is that they're not "quitting." Maybe they're discouraged and down on their luck, but I don't think anyone is giving less of an effort.

Argument is an interesting choice of words. Who are you arguing with? I never said they quit. I was blaming the O-coordinator

Revering4Blue
12-13-2009, 07:05 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers:
Sources tell us that Special Teams coach Bob Ligashesky will be released at the end of the season. According to our source, Offensive Coordinator Bruce
Arians and Offensive Line Coach Larry Zierlein will be also be released at the end of the season.

http://footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html

Good call, Sea Ray.

Sea Ray
12-13-2009, 10:45 PM
http://footballcoachscoop.com/Scoop.html

Good call, Sea Ray.

To the Steelers credit they are an organization that holds their employees accountable

GAC
12-14-2009, 05:33 AM
Argument is an interesting choice of words. Who are you arguing with? I never said they quit. I was blaming the O-coordinator

Are we talking Browns? Then yes, SOME blame can be put on the OC. But not all of it. We have some "holes" (lack of talent) on this team on the offensive side that have to be addressed.

We took a HUGE hit in our receiving corp, irregardless that they were good moves, with the trades of Edwards and Winslow, and the loss of Stallworth.

Losing rookie RB Davis, who had a productive pre-season, in the first game of the season also didn't help matters.

So the Browns have some issues to address in the off-season no doubt. But we are a young team, we have 11 picks, so I still hold onto my optimism.

Injuries aside, which are part of the game, we need to add TALENT in certain areas obviously.

Sea Ray
12-14-2009, 11:48 AM
Are we talking Browns? Then yes, SOME blame can be put on the OC. But not all of it. We have some "holes" (lack of talent) on this team on the offensive side that have to be addressed.

We took a HUGE hit in our receiving corp, irregardless that they were good moves, with the trades of Edwards and Winslow, and the loss of Stallworth.

Losing rookie RB Davis, who had a productive pre-season, in the first game of the season also didn't help matters.

So the Browns have some issues to address in the off-season no doubt. But we are a young team, we have 11 picks, so I still hold onto my optimism.

Injuries aside, which are part of the game, we need to add TALENT in certain areas obviously.

No, we weren't talking Browns. As you recall, the Browns won so quitting on their part wasn't even brought up.

The first thing the Browns have to address in the off season, you didn't even touch on. What to do with the QB situation...

KoryMac5
12-14-2009, 01:57 PM
When you lose games to KC, Oakland, and Cleveland there is something definitely wrong with your team. You can blame it on injuries and coaching all you want and granted that has something to do with it. However you have to hold the players somewhat accountable as well. Pittsburgh still has enough talent on that team, much more talent than the bottom feeders they have lost to. I really think some of the players have lost faith in the leadership of that team. Quiting might be a little harsh but to say they have no confidence in some of the coaching might be pretty close. When players lose faith bad things happen.