PDA

View Full Version : Why are coaches terrible at time management?



DTCromer
12-13-2009, 08:22 PM
Is it me or has time management from coaches been getting more horrendous as every year goes on? Here are a few simple gripes:

1) Why in the world are you taking a timeout on 3rd and 15 to avoid a delay of game penalty? Chances are that you're not going to get a 1st down, so what are you doing wasting a possibly extremely important timeout? Just take the delay of game. You're going to get booed either way.

2) When a team is down by 2 scores, let's say 10 points, and they have 30 seconds left at the 25 yard line, why are you not kicking a FG? You have to score twice anyway, so what in the world are you doing trying to score a TD, running more time off the clock and you don't even give yourself a chance to do anything IF you even get the onside kick? It's elementary. . . Wade Phillips just did this and it irritates me to no end.

3). Everyone does this more than you think, but why waste 5-10 seconds before calling a timeout after a play is called? Good god.

4). In regards to Marvin Lewis today, as the old saying goes, crap or get off the toilet. What are you doing trying running the ball with 30 seconds in the half left on your own 30? AND THEN setting up a screen pass on the very next play? This is time management issue IMO. Good lord, how dumb do you have to be? Either hurry it up or take a knee.

Hoosier Red
12-13-2009, 10:11 PM
Is it me or has time management from coaches been getting more horrendous as every year goes on? Here are a few simple gripes:

1) Why in the world are you taking a timeout on 3rd and 15 to avoid a delay of game penalty? Chances are that you're not going to get a 1st down, so what are you doing wasting a possibly extremely important timeout? Just take the delay of game. You're going to get booed either way.

2) When a team is down by 2 scores, let's say 10 points, and they have 30 seconds left at the 25 yard line, why are you not kicking a FG? You have to score twice anyway, so what in the world are you doing trying to score a TD, running more time off the clock and you don't even give yourself a chance to do anything IF you even get the onside kick? It's elementary. . . Wade Phillips just did this and it irritates me to no end.

3). Everyone does this more than you think, but why waste 5-10 seconds before calling a timeout after a play is called? Good god.

4). In regards to Marvin Lewis today, as the old saying goes, crap or get off the toilet. What are you doing trying running the ball with 30 seconds in the half left on your own 30? AND THEN setting up a screen pass on the very next play? This is time management issue IMO. Good lord, how dumb do you have to be? Either hurry it up or take a knee.

#2 and #4 are my two pet peeves. Inevitably when a team is down by 10 or 11, they press trying to get a touchdown(and give themselves enough time) and throw a pick.

As far as #4 I agree with running the draw play on 1st down, if you gain enough yards, it lets you TAKE A TIMEOUT and set up your offense for the last 20 seconds or so. But what's the point of rushing up to the line wasting precious seconds and then throwing a screen pass?

mlh1981
12-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Coaches basically don't sleep during the season, hence the high number of mistakes made during the season. I think after an entire week of gameplanning, breaking down tape, practices, and burning the midnight oil, they are just fried by the time Sunday comes around.

bucksfan2
12-17-2009, 12:51 PM
Is it me or has time management from coaches been getting more horrendous as every year goes on? Here are a few simple gripes:

1) Why in the world are you taking a timeout on 3rd and 15 to avoid a delay of game penalty? Chances are that you're not going to get a 1st down, so what are you doing wasting a possibly extremely important timeout? Just take the delay of game. You're going to get booed either way.

I don't really have a huge problem with this in the 1st half. It is a low percentage play but you do convert those every once in a while. In the second half it is an awful play to waste your TO.


2) When a team is down by 2 scores, let's say 10 points, and they have 30 seconds left at the 25 yard line, why are you not kicking a FG? You have to score twice anyway, so what in the world are you doing trying to score a TD, running more time off the clock and you don't even give yourself a chance to do anything IF you even get the onside kick? It's elementary. . . Wade Phillips just did this and it irritates me to no end.


Interesting case. If you are on the 25 yard line it isn't exactly a guaranteed FG. And the closer you get to the goal line the easier it is to score a TD. Lets assume you get to the 25 yard line, I take one or two shots at the endzone and then kick a FG. But I agree you don't want to waste a lot of time trying the TD when you need a FG.


3). Everyone does this more than you think, but why waste 5-10 seconds before calling a timeout after a play is called? Good god.

No idea. Wrong call, can't get the right players in, who knows.


4). In regards to Marvin Lewis today, as the old saying goes, crap or get off the toilet. What are you doing trying running the ball with 30 seconds in the half left on your own 30? AND THEN setting up a screen pass on the very next play? This is time management issue IMO. Good lord, how dumb do you have to be? Either hurry it up or take a knee.

The issue I had with that play is I am ok with running the play. The defense is sitting back in a prevent, if you can run a draw and gain 10-15 yards, not difficult to do in a prevent, you can call a TO and then go from there. The Bengals were stupid in that they didn't use one of their 2 remaining TO's and ended up fumbling the ball.

By far the worst coaching decision I can remember can in a Bengals Ravens game a few years ago. The Ravens had already used one of their challenges and lost meaning they only had one remaining. Chad Johnson caught a questionable 3rd down pass on the sidelines for a first down. On the play there was also a illegal contact penalty against the Ravens meaning a 1st down was inevitable. Brian Billick decides to use his remaining challenge to challenge the play. The play was overturned, the Bengals accept the penalty, lost around 10 yards, and the Ravens were out of challenges in the first half if I recall correctly.

Chip R
12-17-2009, 01:03 PM
Coaches basically don't sleep during the season, hence the high number of mistakes made during the season. I think after an entire week of gameplanning, breaking down tape, practices, and burning the midnight oil, they are just fried by the time Sunday comes around.


That's an interesting theory. You may have something there.

Dom Heffner
12-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Interesting case. If you are on the 25 yard line it isn't exactly a guaranteed FG. And the closer you get to the goal line the easier it is to score a TD. Lets assume you get to the 25 yard line, I take one or two shots at the endzone and then kick a FG. But I agree you don't want to waste a lot of time trying the TD when you need a FG.


And Nick Folk missed one from about the 2 earlier.

Though, you have to kick in that situation. If you can't make a 40 yarder, you don't deserve to win anyway.

RichRed
12-17-2009, 02:27 PM
2) When a team is down by 2 scores, let's say 10 points, and they have 30 seconds left at the 25 yard line, why are you not kicking a FG? You have to score twice anyway, so what in the world are you doing trying to score a TD, running more time off the clock and you don't even give yourself a chance to do anything IF you even get the onside kick? It's elementary. . . Wade Phillips just did this and it irritates me to no end.


I remember watching Herm Edwards do this one time when he coached the Jets. You could clearly read his lips as he said "Field goal??" with an incredulous look on his face as one of his coaches had evidently just suggested this to him. The Jets, of course, went for a TD on 4th down, didn't get it, and killed any chance they had of winning the game. Herm was the best.

Kingspoint
12-28-2009, 08:24 AM
Is it me or has time management from coaches been getting more horrendous as every year goes on? Here are a few simple gripes:

1) Why in the world are you taking a timeout on 3rd and 15 to avoid a delay of game penalty? Chances are that you're not going to get a 1st down, so what are you doing wasting a possibly extremely important timeout? Just take the delay of game. You're going to get booed either way.

2) When a team is down by 2 scores, let's say 10 points, and they have 30 seconds left at the 25 yard line, why are you not kicking a FG? You have to score twice anyway, so what in the world are you doing trying to score a TD, running more time off the clock and you don't even give yourself a chance to do anything IF you even get the onside kick? It's elementary. . . Wade Phillips just did this and it irritates me to no end.

3). Everyone does this more than you think, but why waste 5-10 seconds before calling a timeout after a play is called? Good god.

4). In regards to Marvin Lewis today, as the old saying goes, crap or get off the toilet. What are you doing trying running the ball with 30 seconds in the half left on your own 30? AND THEN setting up a screen pass on the very next play? This is time management issue IMO. Good lord, how dumb do you have to be? Either hurry it up or take a knee.

You're just used to watching Marvin Lewis.

traderumor
12-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Coaches basically don't sleep during the season, hence the high number of mistakes made during the season. I think after an entire week of gameplanning, breaking down tape, practices, and burning the midnight oil, they are just fried by the time Sunday comes around.I don't think that is true of all coaches. However, it is food for thought for those who do coach with a "sleep is optional" mentality. I think everyone knows that productivity and mental alertness has diminishing returns when you keep on working past the point of exhaustion. I've always thought that many coaches suffer from addiction to their sport and it is merely looked at as "doing whatever it takes to win."

macro
12-28-2009, 11:58 AM
Although the thread title is "time management" and not "in-game decision-making", I'd like to add my frustration when I see teams "chasing points". That's Phil Simms' term for teams going for the two-point conversion when it's either not necessary or even ill-advised.

For example, I've seen a team that's down 21-10 score a touchdown and go for two so that they can get within a FG, even though there's plenty of time left in the game for several scores. If they miss, it's 21-16 instead of 21-17. Then if their opponent goes on to kick two FGs, it's 27-16 instead of 27-17. A TD and a FG would have tied it, but now they'll have to go for two.

It worked out for the Bengals in the SD game, but I thought at the time that it was a poor decision.

traderumor
12-28-2009, 12:10 PM
Although the thread title is "time management" and not "in-game decision-making", I'd like to add my frustration when I see teams "chasing points". That's Phil Simms' term for teams going for the two-point conversion when it's either not necessary or even ill-advised.

For example, I've seen a team that's down 21-10 score a touchdown and go for two so that they can get within a FG, even though there's plenty of time left in the game for several scores. If they miss, it's 21-16 instead of 21-17. Then if their opponent goes on to kick two FGs, it's 27-16 instead of 27-17. A TD and a FG would have tied it, but now they'll have to go for two.

It worked out for the Bengals in the SD game, but I thought at the time that it was a poor decision.I'm not sure that the "chasing points" argument is valid. I would look at it from the perspective of two opportunities to go for 2. The reason to go for 2 there is that a four point deficit is no worse off than a five point deficit. The decision to go for 2 is calculated in the current context. If I'm down 11, I'm going for 2 in the second half. There are only so many possessions in a football game and if my choice is an extra point that doesn't get me to within a FG or a 2 point conversion that gets me within a FG, I'm going for 2. Of course, a TD is going to give me the lead, and if my D can't keep the other team from scoring, then any of my scores is just chasing my tail.

Roy Tucker
12-28-2009, 02:33 PM
The standard 1 vs. 2 point chart...

http://www.normhitzges.com/thechart.htm

And then there is this that a statistician did for the Patriots...

http://www.cowboysplus.com/topstorync/stories/111006cpcowchart.23421f7.html

BearcatShane
12-28-2009, 09:32 PM
It's easier to manage time when you have everything in front of you on NCAA and Madden.

Handofdeath
01-05-2010, 06:44 AM
Bill Parcells was always a joy to watch with the Cowboys because he could manage that clock like nobody's business. If Dallas had the ball starting the 4th quarter and had a 10 point lead, forget it.

macro
01-05-2010, 09:44 AM
The standard 1 vs. 2 point chart...

http://www.normhitzges.com/thechart.htm

And then there is this that a statistician did for the Patriots...

http://www.cowboysplus.com/topstorync/stories/111006cpcowchart.23421f7.html

I put a lot more stock in the second chart linked above than I do the first, which does not address the amount of time (or number of possessions) remaining in the game.

According to the first chart, the team that scores a TD in the second quarter to go up 19-14 should go for 2, but that's never going to happen. Teams are always going to kick the PAT to take the 20-14 lead.

Frankly, I can't see ever going for two until the last ten minutes or so of the game. The risk/reward is most often not worth it.

Hoosier Red
01-05-2010, 11:14 AM
I put a lot more stock in the second chart linked above than I do the first, which does not address the amount of time (or number of possessions) remaining in the game.

According to the first chart, the team that scores a TD in the second quarter to go up 19-14 should go for 2, but that's never going to happen. Teams are always going to kick the PAT to take the 20-14 lead.

Frankly, I can't see ever going for two until the last ten minutes or so of the game. The risk/reward is most often not worth it.


The best explanation I heard was never go for two if you can afford to give up a score and still win the game. 22-13 in the 2nd quarter, you're likely risking too much by giving up the "automatic(as long as Brad St. Louis isn't snapping) extra point.