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View Full Version : Is it me or could that money have gone elsewhere



Redus
01-11-2010, 02:42 AM
Dont get me wrong I enjoy the Chapman signing and all but could we have used the money to upgrade the outfield or shortstop? The later it gets these guys prices are going to drop...I dont know. Maybe now they trade Arroyo or Harang to get that help. Thoughts??

Zimmers
01-11-2010, 03:50 AM
Sorry I get what your saying but the options are not that flash. 22 year old lhander with TR stuff is better than the aging vets that are the options

double21d
01-11-2010, 06:45 AM
From what I read, he isn't going to be paid much this year (around 1 million). It will be a few years from now (after the contracts of Arroyo and Harang are over). I guess we'll see in 2-3 years if his contract becomes a burden.

mattfeet
01-11-2010, 09:00 AM
His contract is spread over 10 years, so his hit to our payroll is really not as much of a burden as it would be spread over the 5 years his contract is good for. double21d is correct in that he'll only be receiving ~1mil this season. Who, exactly, could we have picked up for SS or OF that is significantly better than our current options for that price?

-Matt

Girevik
01-11-2010, 09:44 AM
The only problem I have is that I know we're going to hear in a few years how the Reds can't sign anyone because of all the defferred money being paid to Griffey and Chapman.

That said, I think this signing has much higher upside in the next year or two than you would have got for the same mone in OF or SS. I'm a litttle surprise he didn't command more money that that.

Vottomatic
01-11-2010, 10:32 AM
If Chapman had been in the MLB draft, he would have gone 1 or 2, between he or Strasberg.

It's like getting the first pick in the draft.

Griffey012
01-11-2010, 10:33 AM
It's just you.

Redus
01-11-2010, 12:09 PM
It's just you.

LOL Ok thanks it is just me.

wojo1025
01-11-2010, 02:42 PM
Not picking on the OP here, but I think the Reds could've traded for Felix Hernandez and signed him to an extension and there would've been 10 threads entitled "we should've signed _______ instead. This makes no sense".

Goes to show you can't please everyone. I, along with the majority of Reds fans that I've talked to, are THRILLED with this signing. The future of this team looks like it should be fun to watch.

Just need to figure out what to do with Alonso soon. His bat is going to warrant being in the big leagues very soon

BLEEDS
01-11-2010, 04:00 PM
To answer the original poster's Question - It's just you. :) ;) :p:

As for our new "problems" - we have too many SP and corner IF prospects/LF maybe developmenters, and couple other guys who would fit in well at 2B if their glove doesn't match up at 3B or SS (*Frazier* *cough* *Frazier*).

IMO we should trade Alonso and/or BP now, along with a Harang/Arroyo and get a SS and/or LF-er vet who can be penciled in for a couple years while we see who can develop for the long-term. We could use a proven .850+OPS bat in LF or a proven SS with some pop as well as glovework, and compete NOW!

Suddenly we have huge depth in the SP department, and tons of it as well in the pipeline - Leake, Wood, Maloney, LaCure, Klinker, et al - we need to package some of this excess and get some depth for our lacking areas.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Kingspoint
01-11-2010, 08:50 PM
You can never have enough starting pitching prospects. Bleeds, there isn't too much. Far from it. There's a lot of unproven talent or bad talent, true. But there isn't too much. Harang and/or Arroyo need(s) to be moved, though. That should make your "too much" seem more reasonable.

It's money well spent.

mlh1981
01-11-2010, 11:39 PM
Quality free agents and anyone worth a damn aren't going to want to come to Cincinnati. To generate excitement and potentially improve the team, this is the route to go.

Ohioballplayer
01-13-2010, 09:43 AM
I'd forget about moving BA, but definately move AH, he could just be a lame duck pitcher, but to be quite honest he was just sharper a few years ago, and has lost his accuracy, he just doesn't get it done anymore.

will5979
01-13-2010, 10:04 AM
Is it just me, or do people always complain when the Reds are trying to better themselves? They get mad when they don't do something, they get mad when they DO something (Rolen).

damned if you do, damned if you don't

BLEEDS
01-13-2010, 10:55 AM
Is it just me, or do people always complain when the Reds are trying to better themselves? They get mad when they don't do something, they get mad when they DO something (Rolen).

damned if you do, damned if you don't

It's not just you :beerme:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
01-13-2010, 10:57 AM
Is it just me, or do people always complain when the Reds are trying to better themselves? They get mad when they don't do something, they get mad when they DO something (Rolen).

damned if you do, damned if you don't

And this is the perfect counter move for trading a good pitching prospect like Stewart. You bring back an even better one. After reading the full pay structure, we never really pay to much money in a season for Chapman, something like 4 million I believe, unless he dominates and hit arbitration then we will pay a bit more.

BLEEDS
01-13-2010, 12:16 PM
And this is the perfect counter move for trading a good pitching prospect like Stewart. You bring back an even better one. After reading the full pay structure, we never really pay to much money in a season for Chapman, something like 4 million I believe, unless he dominates and hit arbitration then we will pay a bit more.

According to an article quoted in the ORG, we pretty much have him for the full 6 years, with the 6th year player option becoming an ARB year IFF he decides to decline the option. I'm not sure how much that might open us up for though.

He does have a lot of incentives in his contract as well, so who knows what that might add up to - but I'm always a HUGE fan of incentives. Oh, World Series MVP get's you $1M? I think we could swallow that... :beerme:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

will5979
01-14-2010, 02:27 PM
And this is the perfect counter move for trading a good pitching prospect like Stewart. You bring back an even better one. After reading the full pay structure, we never really pay to much money in a season for Chapman, something like 4 million I believe, unless he dominates and hit arbitration then we will pay a bit more.

I hate to wish back luck on anyone but I hope this Stewart guy just turns out to be an average pitcher, so everyone will be like "well maybe that Rolen deal waddn't so bad after all!"

Looking back how many of you thought the Hali Mo Peno for Arroyo deal was bad? Some people that Pena was another Barry Bonds :eek:

redsfanmia
01-14-2010, 05:47 PM
I hate to wish back luck on anyone but I hope this Stewart guy just turns out to be an average pitcher, so everyone will be like "well maybe that Rolen deal waddn't so bad after all!"

Looking back how many of you thought the Hali Mo Peno for Arroyo deal was bad? Some people that Pena was another Barry Bonds :eek:

That will never happen, there are still people on this board that pine for Austin Kearns and think that Chris Denorfia was the star who got away.

will5979
01-16-2010, 06:38 PM
That will never happen, there are still people on this board that pine for Austin Kearns and think that Chris Denorfia was the star who got away.

Austin Kearns...well it wasn't really that we lost anybody in that trade, its just that did we get anything in return? Most overrated trade in modern Reds history IMO.

scott91575
01-17-2010, 01:21 AM
You can't buy extra draft picks with that money, and any other young player you can buy with that money will be a lesser recruit. Plus they have addressed those areas with younger players. So no need to spend more money there.

If you want it spent on free agents, who is your list of free agents that will take a $5 million a year contract spread over 10 years? They are going to be mediocre at best, and probably in their 30's. So that means the current less than mediocre team adds another older, less than mediocre player. Yep, sounds like a sound strategy to win the world series.

In case you were wondering what $5 million per year gets you in the free agent market...

Garrett Atkins 3B - 30 year old after a bad year with Rockies inflated stats (above average a few years ago...who knows what you get)

Danys Baez P - 32 year old below average pitcher (that is being kind)

Jamey Carrol 2B - 35 year old utility infielder who couldn't kill a fly with hit bat

Coco Crisp OF - 30 years old, and hasn't hit worth a crap in about 5 years

Pedro Feliz 3B - 34 years old, average at best and on the way down

Nick Johnson 1B - 31, Decent stats but below average for a 1st basemen

Jason Kendall C - 35, Laughable.

Adam LaRoche 1B - 30, and about the only guy you could say "hey, move Votto to LF and put this guy at first." Even then, he is still a first baseman.

Ivan Rodriguez C - Preparing for a dirt nap

So there you have it. Take your pick of the missing piece to this team. Any other trade that frees up money can be done with or without this move, and last time I checked no one is handing out young, MLB ready SS's or OF's for aging high contract pitchers (at least not ones like Harang and Arroyo).

Griffey012
01-18-2010, 11:49 AM
Austin Kearns...well it wasn't really that we lost anybody in that trade, its just that did we get anything in return? Most overrated trade in modern Reds history IMO.

That is so true, who would have thought Daryl Thompson would do just as much for his team as anyone else in the trade.

Vottomatic
01-18-2010, 02:19 PM
Austin Kearns...well it wasn't really that we lost anybody in that trade, its just that did we get anything in return? Most overrated trade in modern Reds history IMO.

It was a wash. And most importantly, the Reds got rid of the cancer Austin Kearns and the overrated Felipe Lopez and his contract renewal/arbitration that was coming in the off season.

It was a salary dump and if you looked at Bray's and the other guys pitching stats, it was a good trade for the Reds at the time. Unfortunately, those two pitchers ended up having arm problems.