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Redsfan320
01-30-2010, 08:16 PM
I'm taking Gomes, with Francisco or Dickerson as a backup.

320

cbowen2112
01-30-2010, 08:18 PM
Gomes with Heisey and Dickerson as backups.

If Gomes is not signed, then we will probably see:

Heisey with Dickerson and Nix as backups.

Redsfan320
01-30-2010, 08:29 PM
Yeah, I forgot about Heisey. He does have a good shot at making the roster.

320

gedred69
01-31-2010, 04:27 PM
I'm thinking Heisey/Dorn. A hitter and a power hitter that destroys RH.

shredda2000
01-31-2010, 06:42 PM
Jonny Gomes in a platoon situation.

Baseball Lover
01-31-2010, 07:25 PM
Always been a fan of Dickerson. He had a really nice half-season last year, but so did Gomes, who I am also an avid fan of. A platoon to start the year might work well, then give whoever is performing better the share of the duties as the season goes on. Worked well with Jenkins and Werth for the Phillies in 08.

BigRed
01-31-2010, 10:46 PM
I think that everyone mentioned will get a shot at the job in an open competition. I think that the job will be shared between Francisco and Gomes.

Redsfan320
02-01-2010, 07:34 AM
41 votes, but only 6 posts. Come on, tell us why you voted how you did.

320

Kingspoint
02-01-2010, 07:46 AM
I voted Dickerson, but I didn't see the "If we sign him" next to Gomes.

I would have preferred Dickerson and Gomes to split time in LF, though, so I don't prefer either "If we sign him". I prefer both.

Cabera complicates things, though. Cabrera brings a bad bat into the #2 hole, removing Dickerson's effectiveness Offensively (his high OBP of .370). Drew Sutton would have been a better match for Gomes, as Sutton would get on base more than Cabrera or Janish, while Sutton's Defense at SS will be as good as Cabrera's at the age of 35.

With two 35-year old's set to man the entire Right Side of the Infield, I no longer want Gomes in the Outfield further diminishing the Right Side of the Defense. Now I want Dickerson in Left Field so he can get to all of the balls that Cabrera and Rolen let get through because of their declining defense their 35-year-old bodies will provide.

Maybe if we don't sign Gomes and Dickerson wins the Left Field job, Dickerson's .370 OBP from last season and 13 out of 16 stolen base success will get through to Dusty and force him to put Cabrera's bat in the bottom of the lineup.

With Cabrera batting 2nd, it doesn't matter if we sign Gomes because people won't be on base often enough for his home runs to matter, just like last season, though Gomes had the benefit of batting behind Votto and knocked him in quite frequently.

So, I guess, I'm sticking with Dickerson for the Defense, but I still want he and Gomes to split time in Left Field.

Redsfan320
02-01-2010, 09:27 AM
Yeah, maybe sometime I'll do a platoon-y sort of poll, though that just makes things more complicated.

320

Griffey012
02-01-2010, 10:50 AM
I voted Dickerson, but I didn't see the "If we sign him" next to Gomes.

I would have preferred Dickerson and Gomes to split time in LF, though, so I don't prefer either "If we sign him". I prefer both.

Cabera complicates things, though. Cabrera brings a bad bat into the #2 hole, removing Dickerson's effectiveness Offensively (his high OBP of .370). Drew Sutton would have been a better match for Gomes, as Sutton would get on base more than Cabrera or Janish, while Sutton's Defense at SS will be as good as Cabrera's at the age of 35.

With two 35-year old's set to man the entire Right Side of the Infield, I no longer want Gomes in the Outfield further diminishing the Right Side of the Defense. Now I want Dickerson in Left Field so he can get to all of the balls that Cabrera and Rolen let get through because of their declining defense their 35-year-old bodies will provide.

Maybe if we don't sign Gomes and Dickerson wins the Left Field job, Dickerson's .370 OBP from last season and 13 out of 16 stolen base success will get through to Dusty and force him to put Cabrera's bat in the bottom of the lineup.

With Cabrera batting 2nd, it doesn't matter if we sign Gomes because people won't be on base often enough for his home runs to matter, just like last season, though Gomes had the benefit of batting behind Votto and knocked him in quite frequently.

So, I guess, I'm sticking with Dickerson for the Defense, but I still want he and Gomes to split time in Left Field.

Our right side of the infield Defense is going to be average at worst. Just because they guys are 35 doesn't mean the move like Dunn and Griffey. Rolen still makes the slow roller play better than anyone at 3rd base, and he makes a number of web gems. He put up a +5 UZR the past 2 season. Which is about the same number I expect O-cab to put up, which gives us an above average side of the infield. Say O-can disappoints and puts up a -5 which I see as the worst case scenario and we are average.

Griffey012
02-01-2010, 10:53 AM
I voted for Heisey when it didnt look as the Reds were going to resign Gomes. IF Gomes comes back then that changes everything. If there is no Gomes I look for Heisey to have a solid spring and win the job then post something along the lines of .270/.340/.430.

SoTxRedsFan
02-01-2010, 11:10 AM
Whoever hits the best in Spring Training. Frazier, Francisco, and Balentin all have the talent to win the job outright. And I'd really prefer if one of them did.

swaisuc
02-01-2010, 11:19 AM
Too many ifs to consider Gomes the favorite. If they sign him and if he has a good spring then I think he will play if they face a lefty and sometimes against righties.

I voted Chris Dickerson or possibly Stubbs if Tavares is still getting ABs in center. Obviously, I'd like to see one of the young guys go get this spot with their play in spring as much as anyone.

Farnsie
02-01-2010, 11:58 AM
A huge fan of Heisey.. He gets my vote!

Altough... I'm a big supporter of Gomes and would like to see what he can do(if we sign him).

stripedwarrior
02-01-2010, 12:18 PM
I voted other. I'm holding out hope that they find the money to sign Damon. I really want Heisey to get another year in the minors, and someone that doesn't need to platoon.

OK, back to reality. The starter on opening day will be Gomes.

BLEEDS
02-01-2010, 01:04 PM
It's a real mess there in LF, that's for sure.

What we NEED there is a .900 OPS bat, preferably one that crushes RHP, which everyone on our roster not named Votto and Bruce are pretty much incapable of.

What we have is a bunch of journeyman, has-beens, and never-have-beens, and a couple prospects all thrown together hoping that one catches lightning in a bottle and we salvage some kind of offense out of them.

Dickerson's bat projects him as a CF-er, where he would be best to split time with Stubbs - IF he can beat him out.

Gomes is great against Lefties and actually did OPS .850 versus RHP last year. I think we can live with his Defense and hope that Stubbs continues to be good enough in CF to help out with Gomes responsibilities out there.

Basically though, we have no REAL full-time solution out there, and will probably end up with a platoon of 2-3 guys out there, unless we somehow make a magical run for a Damon which looks to be out of the question.

I say the Fraziers/Heiseys/Dorns are still a year or two away from being true power prospects that we need in LF, so the FO should have made a move to get a proven vet in there for this year and next.
I would have thought this off-season and/or Trade deadline to deal one of our impending FA pitchers, along with a prospect or 5 - I say Alonso is a good chip - could have netted us something, but apparently the trade market is dead since folks really value their prospects these days.

To me, that is the only real Achilles heal holding this team from being a true contender this year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

JayBruceFan
02-01-2010, 02:57 PM
I think Gomes coming back is a lock

I asked Jocketty about Gomes yesterday at the caravan stop and he said that they are almost done with a deal

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:24 AM
Our right side of the infield Defense is going to be average at worst. Just because they guys are 35 doesn't mean the move like Dunn and Griffey. Rolen still makes the slow roller play better than anyone at 3rd base, and he makes a number of web gems. He put up a +5 UZR the past 2 season. Which is about the same number I expect O-cab to put up, which gives us an above average side of the infield. Say O-can disappoints and puts up a -5 which I see as the worst case scenario and we are average.

First off. I don't believe in Defensive Stats. I think they're useless at this point of the stat analysis versus reality world.

But, since you brought it up, I have to ask you where you get your stats.

I got these "UZR" stats for Shortstops here:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Guess who's 3rd from DEADLAST (minimum 500 Innings Played, 31 Shortstops)? Yes. Orlando Cabrera. And, that's with the #2 overall in MLB in UZR by 3rd Baseman playing defense next to him at 3rd Base in Joe Crede (min 500 IP).

Side note: EE's Dead Last, and thus the Scott Rolen trade. I'll give you that Scott Rolen will be average next year for 3rd Baseman defensively (IF his back holds up), but Cabrera will be "below average".

And, guess who's 1st overall among Shortstops in MLB (minimum 500 IP, 31 players qualified)? YES! Paul Janish is #1 overall and Cabrera is 3rd from DEADLAST.

For the record, www.baseball-reference.com doesn't even use UZR or UZR/150, which is what I'm quoting from, as it was your suggestion.

Janish is 24.6
Cabrera is -13.7

WOW!!! These two guys are at polar extremes defensively.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:25 AM
I think Gomes coming back is a lock

I asked Jocketty about Gomes yesterday at the caravan stop and he said that they are almost done with a deal

Hopefully we get the Gomes that played Right Field/DH last season (1.025 OPS) and not the Gomes that played Left Field/PH (.727 OPS).

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:29 AM
It's a real mess there in LF, that's for sure.

What we NEED there is a .900 OPS bat, preferably one that crushes RHP, which everyone on our roster not named Votto and Bruce are pretty much incapable of.

What we have is a bunch of journeyman, has-beens, and never-have-beens, and a couple prospects all thrown together hoping that one catches lightning in a bottle and we salvage some kind of offense out of them.

Dickerson's bat projects him as a CF-er, where he would be best to split time with Stubbs - IF he can beat him out.

Gomes is great against Lefties and actually did OPS .850 versus RHP last year. I think we can live with his Defense and hope that Stubbs continues to be good enough in CF to help out with Gomes responsibilities out there.

Basically though, we have no REAL full-time solution out there, and will probably end up with a platoon of 2-3 guys out there, unless we somehow make a magical run for a Damon which looks to be out of the question.

I say the Fraziers/Heiseys/Dorns are still a year or two away from being true power prospects that we need in LF, so the FO should have made a move to get a proven vet in there for this year and next.
I would have thought this off-season and/or Trade deadline to deal one of our impending FA pitchers, along with a prospect or 5 - I say Alonso is a good chip - could have netted us something, but apparently the trade market is dead since folks really value their prospects these days.

To me, that is the only real Achilles heal holding this team from being a true contender this year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Nice post.

Do we get the Gomes that played Right Field/DH last year (1.025 OPS) or the Gomes that played Left Field/PH last year (.727 OPS)? I'd like to see Dickerson hit more Doubles and Triples (though, I understand that Triples are hard to come by at the GAB). He needs to be hitting more line drives and using his speed.

Redsfan320
02-02-2010, 08:16 AM
TeamSelig, you lose. I can confirm Willy Taveras will not play LF for the Reds this year.

(Unless we bring him back ;))

320

Glove o' Gold
02-02-2010, 09:19 AM
Dickerson/Gomes

OGB
02-03-2010, 05:40 AM
based on the current state of the roster I say Dickerson. He has been successful in parts of 2 seasons with this team now. Granted, one was only a cup of coffee in Sept 2008, but I like having someone who has been around the big league clubhouse and lifestyle longer as opposed to someone almost completely green like Heisey or Francisco.
I think one of this team's strengths this year is that you can look up and down the lineup and in the pen and not have to say "well, if this guy can just play up to his potential this year we may have something." As far as a lineup full of proven (even if only slightly proven) commodities goes, this is probably the best the Reds have had since 2000.

Find a way to play both Gomes and Dickerson if you resign Jonny, but otherwise go with the still young, promising guy who hasn't given you any reason to doubt him since you called him up. This is potentially a playoff year, it shouldnt be a year to experiment with too many young guys if they don't have to.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 11:27 AM
I think it will end up being Gomes to start the year, but I'd much prefer to see Dickerson there.

gedred69
02-06-2010, 12:55 AM
I say the Fraziers/Heiseys/Dorns are still a year or two away from being true power prospects that we need in LF, so the FO should have made a move to get a proven vet in there for this year and next.

PEACE

-BLEEDS[/QUOTE]

I believe Dorn has been ready to hit the snot out of MLB RH pitching for going on 2 years now..........

probably already been here if he'd been a higher draft choice.

Old NDN
02-06-2010, 10:00 PM
Gomes for me. Gomes and Nix combined for .253 avg., 97 RBI's, 43 2Bs, and 35 HRs. in '09, That's pretty good production from a potential platoon pair. They did strike out a lot (116) though.

BLEEDS
02-07-2010, 10:56 AM
Unfortunately that wasn't all in LF, they played a number of games in the same lineup.

I also saw a stat that showed Gomes in LF actually produced a pretty paltry OPS, he played much better in RF.

Just saying you can't automatically just plug those numbers into LF.

I imagine it's going to be Gomes and Dickerson out there at this point.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
02-07-2010, 03:11 PM
First off. I don't believe in Defensive Stats. I think they're useless at this point of the stat analysis versus reality world.

But, since you brought it up, I have to ask you where you get your stats.

I got these "UZR" stats for Shortstops here:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2009&month=0

Guess who's 3rd from DEADLAST (minimum 500 Innings Played, 31 Shortstops)? Yes. Orlando Cabrera. And, that's with the #2 overall in MLB in UZR by 3rd Baseman playing defense next to him at 3rd Base in Joe Crede (min 500 IP).

Side note: EE's Dead Last, and thus the Scott Rolen trade. I'll give you that Scott Rolen will be average next year for 3rd Baseman defensively (IF his back holds up), but Cabrera will be "below average".

And, guess who's 1st overall among Shortstops in MLB (minimum 500 IP, 31 players qualified)? YES! Paul Janish is #1 overall and Cabrera is 3rd from DEADLAST.

For the record, www.baseball-reference.com doesn't even use UZR or UZR/150, which is what I'm quoting from, as it was your suggestion.

Janish is 24.6
Cabrera is -13.7

WOW!!! These two guys are at polar extremes defensively.

First off, I don't see where I suggested using baseball reference, but if I did I meant to use fangraphs, that is where I go for fielding stats.

Whoever plays next to you should not matter when it comes to UZR, except for maybe a few ground balls a year.

I agree with you that OCab's UZR was -13.7 last year, however the previous 2 seasons he was 14 and 8. The thing with UZR is that it tends to fluctuate quite a bit from year to year so you usually want to look at 3 or 4 years worth of UZR ratings. He is not as good as Paul Janish defensively and I never tried to make that argument. All I am trying to say is that he is a better fielder than his numbers last year suggest, a lot of people just say he sucks as a fielder because he is older and had a bad UZR rating last year. However in the grand scheme of things he has been an average to above average fielder his whole career, just in 2008 he was one of the best fielding SS's. Moving the GABP from the fun Turf in the Metrodome will help.

All in All OCab our left side of the infield will be league average defensively or better, which was the original point I was making. My point was nothing about Janish vs. OCab defensively.

Kingspoint
02-08-2010, 12:54 AM
I also saw a stat that showed Gomes in LF actually produced a pretty paltry OPS, he played much better in RF.



When I posted a stat about that, I intentionally left out the stat that showed he was the opposite the year (or year before when he had more at-bats) before that.

It's so true you can't just plug numbers in with such dynamics involved and all of the possible players.

double21d
02-08-2010, 06:46 AM
You have to give credit to Juan Francisco for playing well in the Caribbean World Series. He came up with a few clutch hits while batting the middle of the order. The level of play wasn't on par with the MLB but seeing him play makes me think he could end up with the spot.