PDA

View Full Version : Lost Season 6 (Final Season!)



Pages : 1 2 [3]

marcshoe
05-24-2010, 11:27 AM
As to Ben, I think it comes back to the definition of purgatory. Some faiths view purgatory, as a place of service, or penance for ones deeds. We see Ben as fulfilling a role in Alex's life, that he didn't in real life in placing her interests above his own, he also is taking care of his elderly father. I think it is more likely he is "not ready", and needs/wants to do more to shift the balance of the scale.

Which goes back to Ana Lucia last week, when Hurley asked "Is she coming with us?" Desmond told Hurley "She is not ready". Imo, She was still doing penance, for her bad deeds. Which were many.

Just my take.

Oh yeah, so if Hurley was the new Jacob, supposedly immortal, I wonder how he died.

Good point. And earlier, Eloise had told Desmond that he wasn't ready yet.

HotCorner
05-24-2010, 11:31 AM
Wasn't the Ajira plane wired with explosives by Widmore? Did everyone forget about this or am I missing something?

Yes but the MIB took all of the C4 out of the plane and used it for the bomb that was used on the submarine.

RiverRat13
05-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Nope, no real "answers" as what the Island was, or Dharma's presence on it, or the polar bear or other scientific oddities. The focus was on the characters.

The door is wide open for them to revisit just "what" the island is in a spin-off or movie if they so choose someday.

I thought the polar bears were brought to the island by the Dharma people. Hence the cages that Jack, Sawyer and Kate were locked in during Season 3.

I don't see a spin-off. I really don't. I think the producers view Lost as a once-in-a-lifetime story, the like of which you will never see on network television again. I just don't see them pulling a Lucas or Spielberg and mess with what is as close to perfection as you can get on TV.

kaldaniels
05-24-2010, 11:56 AM
A lot of speculation on Juliet saying "it worked" in the season premiere...

I love that we now know it was referring to getting a candy bar out of a vending machine.

durl
05-24-2010, 12:00 PM
A lot of speculation on Juliet saying "it worked" in the season premiere...

I love that we know know it was referring to getting a candy bar out of a vending machine.

I caught that, too. And she "pulled the plug" on the bomb and everything went white. James pulled the plug on the machine and the room went dark.

redsmetz
05-24-2010, 12:41 PM
Leave it to The Onion to suggest that there are preps for a Season 7 of Lost... in a parallel universe:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/lost-possibly-still-airing-in-parallel-dimension-d,17485/

reds1869
05-24-2010, 12:55 PM
Leave it to The Onion to suggest that there are preps for a Season 7 of Lost... in a parallel universe:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/lost-possibly-still-airing-in-parallel-dimension-d,17485/

That is some funny stuff right there!

reds1869
05-24-2010, 02:14 PM
I came across this Stephen King quote on Lostpedia (it is also featured in Alan Wake) and found that it sums up my feelings about the show completely:

"Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there's little fun to be had in explanations - they are antithetical to the poetry of fear. In a horror story, the victim keeps asking "Why?", but there can be no explanation, and there shouldn't be one. The unanswered mystery is what stays with us the longest, and it's what we'll remember in the end."

HeatherC1212
05-24-2010, 02:49 PM
I came across this Stephen King quote on Lostpedia (it is also featured in Alan Wake) and found that it sums up my feelings about the show completely:

"Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there's little fun to be had in explanations - they are antithetical to the poetry of fear. In a horror story, the victim keeps asking "Why?", but there can be no explanation, and there shouldn't be one. The unanswered mystery is what stays with us the longest, and it's what we'll remember in the end."

I love that quote! That's the perfect way to describe Lost. Thanks for posting that and I hope more people find it. :thumbup:

TeamCasey
05-24-2010, 03:06 PM
The polar bears could have been a manifestation of the MiB but the cages were real as well as the fact that someone killed one the first season.

I was so happy to see Rose, Bernard and the dog last night. :)

RiverRat13
05-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Polar bears were brought by the Dharma folks:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polar_bears

macro
05-24-2010, 05:08 PM
lol @ this show


I dont want to come off like I'm a jerk, but then again apparently posting in a Lost thread with out being a Lost junkie makes me one. Sorry I will step out now that I realize how crazy some of you are about a show.

Not being a "Lost junkie" doesn't preclude anyone from posting in this thread, but we could have done without the belittling, condescending comments. Furthermore, expecting your opinions and viewpoints to be respected after watching one episode in six years was a bit unreasonable.

HumnHilghtFreel
05-24-2010, 05:18 PM
I didn't like it at first.... after thinking about it for awhile though, I really liked the way it all came together.

HumnHilghtFreel
05-24-2010, 05:22 PM
I also felt it was a cheap shot to have Vincent lay with Jack at the end.

Dogs being loyal ALWAYS without fail pulls at my heartstrings

IslandRed
05-24-2010, 05:57 PM
I also felt it was a cheap shot to have Vincent lay with Jack at the end.

I thought it was a cool part of the coming-full-circle thing with the opening scenes of the pilot episode. When Jack first opened his eyes on the island, Vincent was there.

BuckeyeRed27
05-24-2010, 06:02 PM
I absolutely loved this finale. It was a fantastic way to end the best show on TV.

On some level I wish they would have answered some more of the logistical what's and why's...but I'm not mad that they didn't. Infact I think it was part of the point that they didn't.

I'm really going to miss this show. Thank you LOST.

GIDP
05-24-2010, 06:04 PM
Not being a "Lost junkie" doesn't preclude anyone from posting in this thread, but we could have done without the belittling, condescending comments. Furthermore, expecting your opinions and viewpoints to be respected after watching one episode in six years was a bit unreasonable.

I think people normally say take it to PMs in these cases.

westofyou
05-24-2010, 06:07 PM
I think people normally say take it to PMs in these cases.

I guess then at this juncture one might claim that you're not following your own advice?

GIDP
05-24-2010, 06:15 PM
Trolling and baiting is against the rules I think. Just sayin.

westofyou
05-24-2010, 06:21 PM
Trolling and baiting is against the rules I think. Just sayin.

pot meet kettle

Joseph
05-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Trolling and baiting is against the rules I think. Just sayin.

Which is basically what Macro and myself have been trying to get you to stop doing.

TeamCasey
05-24-2010, 06:29 PM
Oh my goodness ......... bawling my eyes out! Even knowing spoilers today, I was not prepared for that. The scene with Jack and his father was incredible.

And ...... I get it now.

My final question ...... who did Hurley leave to protect the island? :) Therein lies the sequel or movie.

GIDP
05-24-2010, 06:38 PM
If the mods have a problem with me then you know how to take it to PMs. Follow your own rules.

BuckeyeRed27
05-24-2010, 08:24 PM
Below is a summary from someone that works at Bad Robot that I read on another board. It is fantastic and I highly recommend reading it.




First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

TeamCasey
05-24-2010, 08:24 PM
Pondering now.

Why was Walt so important and what about all the children and the whole babies/ pregnancy thing?

Who built the wheel and the statue?

Was there any significance to the numbers except that they coincided with the candidate names in the cave?

nate
05-24-2010, 08:38 PM
True or not, that's pretty awesome, BR27. Thanks for posting!

Trace's Daddy
05-24-2010, 08:41 PM
Good stuff there, Buckeye. Thanks for sharing that.

Anyone know where the hydrogen bomb came from that was on the island?

yab1112
05-24-2010, 08:56 PM
Good stuff there, Buckeye. Thanks for sharing that.

Anyone know where the hydrogen bomb came from that was on the island?

The U.S. Army brought it to the south pacific for testing in the 50's.

I loved the finale. Like many have already said, they left many mysteries unexplained, but I think I'm ok with that. The closure they brought to all the characters in the flash-sideways was beautiful IMO. Some of the people I was watching with were complaining that each time someone "remembered" it took too long and it was becoming repetitive. I couldn't disagree more. Every second of it was amazing. Damon and Lindeloff have always said this is a show about the characters and the finale stayed true to that.

As for Ben not going in to the church, I assumed it was because he wanted to stay with Danielle and Alex but what some of you have mentioned about him not feeling worthy makes sense as well.

If it's always been about the mysteries and the island for you though, maybe you'll get closure here: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1639820/20100521/story.jhtml

nate
05-24-2010, 09:09 PM
Here are a couple of articles about the finale. AVclub (http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-end,41436/) and a cool graphic (http://www.nationalpost.com/arts/lost/index.html).

BuckeyeRed27
05-24-2010, 09:12 PM
Good stuff there, Buckeye. Thanks for sharing that.

Anyone know where the hydrogen bomb came from that was on the island?

The US Military brought it there in the 50s. They showed it during one of the flashbacks in S5.

Donder
05-24-2010, 11:11 PM
A question and an inconstancy in that otherwise great explanation posted by BR27.

Question: How was Ben able to corrupt the Others with Richard as his right-hand man? What would preclude Richard from convincing the Others that Ben was not working for Jacob when he was bringing down DHARMA? Or if he wasn't able to stop Ben, why was he an active part in destroying DHARMA, if in fact that was the work of MIB.

The inconsistency: The author makes a big deal that only characters from Season 1 was in the church. This is significant because They had it written since the pilot. But Juliet was in the church, yes? She didn't show up until Season 3.

HeatherC1212
05-24-2010, 11:58 PM
A question and an inconstancy in that otherwise great explanation posted by BR27.

Question: How was Ben able to corrupt the Others with Richard as his right-hand man? What would preclude Richard from convincing the Others that Ben was not working for Jacob when he was bringing down DHARMA? Or if he wasn't able to stop Ben, why was he an active part in destroying DHARMA, if in fact that was the work of MIB.

The inconsistency: The author makes a big deal that only characters from Season 1 was in the church. This is significant because They had it written since the pilot. But Juliet was in the church, yes? She didn't show up until Season 3.

Not only Juliet but Desmond and Penny were there too. I have a theory that it was mostly the people from the original crash but also the ones that mattered the most to some of the Losties. For example, Juliet was Sawyer's true love, Libby was Hurley's true love, Penny & Desmond's story obviously affected the Losties since her boat is what rescued the Oceanic Six and Desmond became part of the beach crew, etc. That's just my theory obviously but it kind of makes sense.

RANDY IN INDY
05-25-2010, 09:20 AM
I guess I'm in the minority, but I thought the finale was terrible. Very disappointed.

RiverRat13
05-25-2010, 10:06 AM
A question and an inconstancy in that otherwise great explanation posted by BR27.

Question: How was Ben able to corrupt the Others with Richard as his right-hand man? What would preclude Richard from convincing the Others that Ben was not working for Jacob when he was bringing down DHARMA? Or if he wasn't able to stop Ben, why was he an active part in destroying DHARMA, if in fact that was the work of MIB.

That was a great explanation for the most part, but I agree the Dharma explanation is lacking. If anything, Dharma was there to exploit the island.

Edit: After re-reading the explanation, the author stipulates Dharma was originally brought there for good but was corrupted by the MIB. Therefore I guess you could surmise that Richard would go along with destroying Dharma as it would seem to be Jacob's will.

durl
05-25-2010, 10:38 AM
Pondering now.

Why was Walt so important and what about all the children and the whole babies/ pregnancy thing?

Those are mysteries that, apparently, the writers thought would be more interesting if left unexplained.

Who built the wheel and the statue?

Was there any significance to the numbers except that they coincided with the candidate names in the cave?

While I didn't necessarily want ALL things answered (a little mystery is good) you mention several things that I thought should have been explained. Since we're left to theorize about it:

1) Pregnancy. I wonder if that was the Island's way of keeping people from setting up a culture like those of the outside world. While people may find the Island or be drawn there, it serves a greater purpose than simply being a place for habitation. The Island's purpose and history is the true mystery and perhaps it's better left to the imagination.

2) Walt being "special." Locke was also special, but in a different way, apparently. I guess we're supposed to just accept Walt's abilities without analyzing the details of them. However, the Island did use him to communicate clues to the Losties so that may be the only purpose we needed to know.

3) Wheel and Statue. We know the Romans started the wheel but we don't know who finished it. Honestly, those are mysteries that I can accept remaining hidden. What I really am curious about, though, is why was the "wheel room" warm when MIB was describing it to Mother, but freezing cold when Ben and Locke turned it? I don't need to necessarily know who built it but what is the significance of the temperature change? Such an obvious change is the bigger mystery to me.

4) Numbers. I don't believe there was a deeper "meaning", but perhaps we missed the deeper "significance." The people representing those numbers were Jacob's final, big play to destroy Smokey. They were broadcast for years from the tower and eventually overheard by Hurley (future protector). I see them as one of those recurring, guiding "coincidences" for Hurley that kept him drawn to pursue answers, helped him guide Jack, and eventually become a protector. They were Jacob's "bread crumbs" in the forest for Hurley.

nate
05-25-2010, 11:02 AM
The biggest mystery that was never solved:

Why didn't Hurley lose weight?

:cool:

RiverRat13
05-25-2010, 11:44 AM
The biggest mystery that was never solved:

Why didn't Hurley lose weight?


Have you ever read the back labels of that Dharma food? Talk about high caloric intake!

yab1112
05-25-2010, 11:46 AM
The biggest mystery that was never solved:

Why didn't Hurley lose weight?

:cool:

To solve that mystery I would start with the empty Ranch dressing tub.

http://www.uselessbabble.com/articles/0008/images/008.jpg

IslandRed
05-25-2010, 01:21 PM
I remember someone (Sawyer, probably) specifically asking Hurley that in an early season, which is when we discovered Hurley had secret stashes of food!

pahster
05-26-2010, 01:22 PM
I saw this posted earlier today and thought it was pretty funny.


CINCINNATI — One of the most anticipated season finales in broadcast television history aired Sunday night. Viewed by millions, the finale of Lost answered many questions fans had been wondering for six seasons. The biggest question—“what is the island?”—was answered once and for all, as Jack Shephard awoke in the Cincinnati Reds bullpen after climbing out of the cave of light.

The rest is here: http://www.tauntr.com/content/lost-finale-reveals-island-was-cincinnati%E2%80%99s-bullpen-all-along

Oxilon
05-26-2010, 02:11 PM
Thought this was pretty funny...

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

macro
05-27-2010, 09:16 AM
Question I was hoping would have an obvious answer, but I don't think it did:

What was the effect of Juliet setting off that bomb back in the Dharma days? Did that mean that the hatch never got built?

RiverRat13
05-27-2010, 11:05 AM
Question I was hoping would have an obvious answer, but I don't think it did:

What was the effect of Juliet setting off that bomb back in the Dharma days? Did that mean that the hatch never got built?

It jumped them from 1977 to 2007.

klw
05-27-2010, 05:34 PM
Question I was hoping would have an obvious answer, but I don't think it did:

What was the effect of Juliet setting off that bomb back in the Dharma days? Did that mean that the hatch never got built?

I believe this is what was able to create the "reality" in which the plane never crashed. While the reality is ultimately a purgatory, it is an act of such faith that it binds the group together that they are able to find each other after their eventual deaths. This is what Juliet meant by "It worked" and not just a reference to the vending machine.

Redsfaithful
05-27-2010, 06:03 PM
Question I was hoping would have an obvious answer, but I don't think it did:

What was the effect of Juliet setting off that bomb back in the Dharma days? Did that mean that the hatch never got built?

I either think there was no effect and "the incident" jumped them forward in time or the bomb itself caused "the incident" and jumped them forward.

Imo it was basically a red herring.

SMcGavin
05-27-2010, 07:29 PM
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


I know you personally didn't write this but... Juliette? Desmond? Penny? Not from season one, all in the church. I can buy that the writers always had the series ending with Jack closing his eyes, beyond that I am skeptical.

I am somewhat torn on the finale. Production-wise it was well done, and loaded with "feel-good" moments. But I was really disappointed in how poorly the on-island narrative turned out. After six years of this show, we get a finale centered around the protection of a pool of light we only learned about two weeks ago. And it turns out every character was pretty clueless about how the island works. Jacob has no idea how to kill MIB, or if it's even possible. The all-powerful MIB convinces Desmond to pull the plug, which leads to his own death. Desmond does it because he thinks he's going to be transported to the sideways world. Nobody knows anything. Including the viewer. Originally Ben and Widmore were presented as the all-knowing entities of the island, fighting elaborate battles based on the "rules". Turns out they knew virtually nothing and were useless to the eventual resolution of the island conflict. Same for Richard Alpert.

I feel like the sideways world was a way for the writers to change the endpoint. The on-island drama that we've seen for six years was going to come to a really unsatisfying end. The sideways world seemed like a way to change the end-point, to give the fans a pleasing ending where everyone walks away happily ever after, and to distract from the way things actually went down with the main storyline.

IslandRed
05-27-2010, 11:58 PM
I feel like the sideways world was a way for the writers to change the endpoint. The on-island drama that we've seen for six years was going to come to a really unsatisfying end. The sideways world seemed like a way to change the end-point, to give the fans a pleasing ending where everyone walks away happily ever after, and to distract from the way things actually went down with the main storyline.

I disagree, if for no other reason than we've been hearing for years now that they knew how it was going to end all the way back to the beginning. And your contention that the island mystery is the main storyline is at odds with what the producers were saying all along, which is that the show is ultimately about the people. The island and its mysteries were important only to the extent that it affected the characters. Just like the rest of us, they had to go through it without having the answer sheet.

But yes, for those approached the show as a puzzle to be solved, then I can understand being frustrated. Not only did they not get the answer sheet, they found out they weren't even taking the right test.

TheBigLebowski
05-28-2010, 08:16 AM
You learn the significance of the numbers on the Lost Alternate Reality Game between seasons 1 and 2. They were produced by an Italian scientist named Valenzetti. The DHARMA Initiative (based on a recommendation by Gerald DeGroot) paid him to figure out exactly when mankind would destroy itself. The final result of his research was "The Valenzetti Equation," which produced those numbers as an output. Unless the DHARMA researchers could find a way to change the output of the equation - the "numbers" - mankind's ultimate destruction was not far away. I always thought the producers should have worked more of that kind of stuff into seasons 2,3, and 4.

The finale was well-produced and an interesting 1.5 hrs of TV but, for someone as dedicated to the show as I and several others have been, it just left too much unanswered. I'd have to take some time to think about all the stuff I wanted answered this season, but here's a few off the top of my head:

The pregnancy problem on the island

The significance of the foot

Who were the two skeletons in the cave?

What is the significance of the nickname "Hurley?"

Walt?????

redsmetz
05-28-2010, 08:21 AM
Who were the two skeletons in the cave?

That was in the Allison Janney episode, it was the MIB and his "mother" (Allison Janney). That episode closed with the current cast finding the bones and with real Locke saying "our own Adam & Eve."

marcshoe
05-28-2010, 11:19 AM
I'd assumed Hurley got his nickname from, well, hurling after a bit too much partying. The only thing that really bothers me is the children/Walt. The Egyptian motif was never explained, but adds to the continuing aura of mystery. The children thing just seems weird.

But I'm still in the group that loved the ending. It's all about the people.

TheBigLebowski
05-28-2010, 11:43 AM
That was in the Allison Janney episode, it was the MIB and his "mother" (Allison Janney). That episode closed with the current cast finding the bones and with real Locke saying "our own Adam & Eve."

Huh...I missed the final 15 mins of that episode....figures. Thanks for the info.

klw
05-28-2010, 12:19 PM
[QUOTE=TheBigLebowski;2098632]
The pregnancy problem on the island

The significance of the foot



Well we saw how the foot got left behind when the statue was destroyed by the ship wreck.

I attribute the pregnancy to being one of the rules set by Jacob. His mother died in childbirth- albeit not a natural death- so one of his rules that a woman could not get pregnant and give birth without dying like his mom.

The kids were taken, just as he was, to protectand shelter them from the inevitable destruction that man brings upon himself.

marcshoe
05-28-2010, 12:26 PM
[QUOTE]

Well we saw how the foot got left behind when the statue was destroyed by the ship wreck.

I attribute the pregnancy to being one of the rules set by Jacob. His mother died in childbirth- albeit not a natural death- so one of his rules that a woman could not get pregnant and give birth without dying like his mom.

The kids were taken, just as he was, to protectand shelter them from the inevitable destruction that man brings upon himself.

Makes sense.

Brutus
06-01-2010, 06:17 PM
I am extremely late to the party. Actually, I guess I'm pretty much walking in as the party is ending.

I just started watching Lost two weeks ago. I literally started one week before the final episode after the curiosity of the finale anticipation piqued my interest enough to give the show a shot. Probably after one or two episodes I was hooked.

Here I am about two weeks later and I just finished the last episode last night. I got caught up over 100 episodes in just over two weeks - kind of a sad commentary about my social life (ha ha).

Nonetheless, I'd like to chime in on the show having seen it consecutively in a short period of time (which may have been a benefit to my perspective of the series)...

The show itself, in my estimation, is a brilliant creative work. As someone with interest in the arts, this show was very profound on many levels. Its' attention to detail and character development is second to none among any television series I've watched.

While I regret taking interest in the show nearly six years after inception - and the brink of conclusion - I'm thrilled that I allowed myself to enjoy a show I otherwise had closed my mind to. I'm not much into the science fiction drama, or anything that delves into the supernatural, but this was so much more than that.

Because of the emotion intensive nature of the show, it's probably not a series I will often watch (unlike sitcoms such as Seinfeld that I've seen about a thousand times). But this will probably go down as my favorite show.

I've seen a lot of questioning the perceived lack of explanation for some of the finer plotlines of the show. I'm actually kind of surprised by this.

I'm reminded of David Chase's response, when The Soproanos came to a conclusion, regarding the lack of an absolution: "it's all there."

Unlike a dark screen, leaving viewers to ponder whether mob boss Tony Soprano was murdered, in this ending we're told exactly what happened. They're dead but everything that happened on that island was real.

As Christian tells Jack in the church, "they needed you as much as you needed them." We have the benefit of knowing the alternate reality was just a way for everyone to move on together after their deaths.

We found out who the man in black was. We know where the smoke monster came from. We know who Jacob was and how he got there. We know the intent of the Dharma Initiative and what happened to it. We know about Ben, Ethan, Richard, etc.

To me, the only things left unanswered were about the island itself. I can't help but think that's by design.

During the entire series, the island was built as an entity that was beyond anyone's comprehension. Only Jacob had those answers and even he was never known to be able to fully explain the place. I think that the island was intentionally left with a bit of mystery because it was supposed to be a place we can't fully understand. I believe the show was more about the characters - the 'lost' souls struggling to find their place in the world. The island was just a conduit that brought them together and tested their faith. To explain that away would partially diminish the concept of 'faith versus science' or making choices.

Much has been made about who was in the church in the 'purgatory' that the lostaways created. To me, it was sensible who was included.

Mr. Eko died and found his brother. He presumably moved on.

Anna Lucia was never really apart of the group. She said that several times in the brief time in camp before she was killed. She didn't need the group to get to wherever she was going.

Michael and Walt would have made sense. However, we know Michael's soul was trapped on the island for his sins. Walt made it back to the real world and, as John Locke commented when visiting him in New York, had moved on and had been through enough already.

In my estimation, the show ended exactly as it should have. The Oceanic 6 went back to the island in hopes of righting their wrongs and saving the island and the rest of their friends. In a way, they were able to do what they hoped. In the island reality, Jack hoped that setting off the bomb would undo everything. It didn't do that but it did bring them back together. As Ben commented in Season 6, "dead is dead - you don't come back from that." So all the bomb did is set them back to their reality on the island so the group could be together again after their deaths.

I understand some concerns about the ending. And I do feel there are a few minor details that probably could use some more explaining (like the foreshadowing of Walt's powers early in the series that kind of got dropped). But this was about as perfect an end to a show as I could ask for.

As David Chase said, "it's all there." I think most of what should have been explained - was explained. Most of the things that never got explained were simply a byproduct of leaving some imagination to the island.

macro
06-02-2010, 01:30 AM
Very good commentary, Brutus. I copied that and sent it to a friend of mine who has spent about 2-3 hours reading about every episode over the past six years. He wasn't satisfied with the lack of some answers they left us with, so I'll be interested to see his response to your analysis. FWIW, I agree with you completely.

Brutus
06-02-2010, 02:50 AM
Very good commentary, Brutus. I copied that and sent it to a friend of mine who has spent about 2-3 hours reading about every episode over the past six years. He wasn't satisfied with the lack of some answers they left us with, so I'll be interested to see his response to your analysis. FWIW, I agree with you completely.

I appreciate it. I would love to see his response. I certainly won't claim I became an instant expert, but I felt pretty in tune with the show's direction and feel pretty strongly, based on the plot development, they wanted to leave the island as a bit of a mystery. It makes sense when we consider that almost every individual that was a focal point of the show got an arc to explain their past, so we should assume that there's a reason the mysteries of the island did not.

reds1869
06-02-2010, 08:22 AM
Very good analysis, Brutus.

macro
06-02-2010, 06:29 PM
I appreciate it. I would love to see his response. I certainly won't claim I became an instant expert, but I felt pretty in tune with the show's direction and feel pretty strongly, based on the plot development, they wanted to leave the island as a bit of a mystery. It makes sense when we consider that almost every individual that was a focal point of the show got an arc to explain their past, so we should assume that there's a reason the mysteries of the island did not.

Here was his reply. He didn't directly address anything you said, but rather replied to my question to him, which was "Are you still unhappy or dissatisfied with the lack of answers the writers left?"




Unhappy or dissatisfied might be a little extreme but I just wanted more details about Dharma because for 2 + seasons they played a large part of Lost. Who were they, how did they find the island, how did they build all of those stations, etc. But my biggest disappointment remains that we/I did not see Smoky in the finale! Rewatching the pilot for the 3rd or 4th time reminded me/reinforced how big a presence/mystery Smoky was from the very first episode/hour. I feel let down from that respect. Very disappointed and that won't change.

Saying that, I will someday buy the complete set and sit down and rewatch them all again with mindset of knowing what is going on from the beginning. I am sure despite all the "studying" I did for 6 years, I still missed a lot.

ochre
06-02-2010, 06:44 PM
the thing your viewing time frame can't account for is the prolonged, at times excessively drawn out, way most of the rest of us experienced this series.

I suspect that the delays and anticipation built up bigger expectations for a lot of us.

All in all, though, I thought the finale was ok. It definitely could have been much worse.

Brutus
06-03-2010, 12:59 PM
the thing your viewing time frame can't account for is the prolonged, at times excessively drawn out, way most of the rest of us experienced this series.

I suspect that the delays and anticipation built up bigger expectations for a lot of us.

All in all, though, I thought the finale was ok. It definitely could have been much worse.

I can understand the heightened expectations. However, I can't imagine things like the Dharma Initiative and some of the minor details of the Island's powers were what was fueling the final season's anticipation. The show started, and fittingly finished, being about the people that crashed and those that were close to them. A lot of the small questions were answered in small parts scattered throughout the series - at least enough to get a gist of what some of the things meant.

IslandRed
06-03-2010, 02:34 PM
One cool thing they did was to create "alternate reality games" during the breaks between seasons. Those (especially the Lost Experience) revealed a lot of backstory that didn't have cause to be worked into the TV show because it didn't affect the main characters in any way.

ochre
06-04-2010, 03:06 PM
I can understand the heightened expectations. However, I can't imagine things like the Dharma Initiative and some of the minor details of the Island's powers were what was fueling the final season's anticipation. The show started, and fittingly finished, being about the people that crashed and those that were close to them. A lot of the small questions were answered in small parts scattered throughout the series - at least enough to get a gist of what some of the things meant.
But to people who waited weeks, months, or years with promised glimpses into those minor details (with weeks, months, and years and plot prominence implying they are important to the story), the minor details became a bit more major.

Having read/heard a bit from the creators, we know that some stuff (Jack's tattoo episode for example) was deemed, close to the time it aired, to be plot dead ends, and thus dropped.

Things like Mr. Echo being a key character up until the actor decided he couldn't take living in Hawaii, and Walt's growth spurt indicate, further, what a dynamic creation this show had to be. With all that in mind, and understanding, in the end, it was about the characters, they spun much of the minutiae into key components for cliffhanger type reasons. Those moments are the ones people feel somewhat cheated by.

Like I said, I, generally, found the finale to be good, so I'm just providing my perspective... :)

Brutus
06-04-2010, 05:08 PM
But to people who waited weeks, months, or years with promised glimpses into those minor details (with weeks, months, and years and plot prominence implying they are important to the story), the minor details became a bit more major.

Having read/heard a bit from the creators, we know that some stuff (Jack's tattoo episode for example) was deemed, close to the time it aired, to be plot dead ends, and thus dropped.

Things like Mr. Echo being a key character up until the actor decided he couldn't take living in Hawaii, and Walt's growth spurt indicate, further, what a dynamic creation this show had to be. With all that in mind, and understanding, in the end, it was about the characters, they spun much of the minutiae into key components for cliffhanger type reasons. Those moments are the ones people feel somewhat cheated by.

Like I said, I, generally, found the finale to be good, so I'm just providing my perspective... :)

Fair enough. I guess everything I expected/wanted to be answered in the series got answered, so I can't really relate. I still think a lot of the questions people have were in there somewhere if people go back and look.

I have read that the creators knew how they wanted the series to begin and how they wanted it to end. Everything in between was created as a means to an end.

Overall, I think investing too much over some of the minor details misses the big picture. I still think some of those questions were never meant to be answered and that's what made the island so intriguing.

ochre
06-04-2010, 06:36 PM
Overall, I think investing too much over some of the minor details misses the big picture. I still think some of those questions were never meant to be answered and that's what made the island so intriguing.
which, of course, is the Lost corollary to the "can't see the forest for the trees" adage.

Razor Shines
08-23-2010, 05:53 PM
So I had gotten way behind on listening to the podcasts I get, so I had some driving to do the other day and I was listening to Doug Loves Movies, hosted by Doug Benson. It was from May and they were talking about how Lost will end and Doug said the "ballsiest" ending they could do is have Bob Newhart wake up and say "Damn, not again."

I lol'd at that, I only wish I had listened to it back in May when it would have been more relevant.

kaldaniels
08-23-2010, 08:05 PM
To each his own, but as time passes, I get upset that I allowed by self to be sucked in by this show. If I knew from the get go that many island mysteries would go unsolved I could watch this show and acknowledge that it was indeed a great character driven show. However, I spent way too much time thinking "how are the writers gonna tie this all together" when ultimately, they chose not to.

I was entertained for 6 years, but disappointed in the resolution of the show.

forfreelin04
02-27-2011, 01:02 AM
Just finished the last episode. My wife and I both agreed that we wasted alot of time watching the show for 6 years. I think many are trying to find clarity in a show where the writers were as Lost as the viewers. Abrams and company are masters of suspense but like many good tv shows they couldn't finish it well. But art in many forms(especially movies and tv) rarely ends as well as it began.

HeatherC1212
02-27-2011, 01:42 AM
Just finished the last episode. My wife and I both agreed that we wasted alot of time watching the show for 6 years. I think many are trying to find clarity in a show where the writers were as Lost as the viewers. Abrams and company are masters of suspense but like many good tv shows they couldn't finish it well. But art in many forms(especially movies and tv) rarely ends as well as it began.

I don't want to argue about the show at all but just as an FYI, JJ Abrams wasn't involved at all with the show after season one so don't blame him for anything post S1. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the finale.

I started missing Lost when January came and went and it didn't come back on the air. I still miss it. :(

forfreelin04
02-27-2011, 10:04 AM
I don't want to argue about the show at all but just as an FYI, JJ Abrams wasn't involved at all with the show after season one so don't blame him for anything post S1. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the finale.

I started missing Lost when January came and went and it didn't come back on the air. I still miss it. :(

Thanks for letting me know Heather. I watched some of the special features and realized the writers themselves were as attached to the characters as the die hard fans were. So Imo this is why the last season and especially the ending is so character driven.

I think what kept many coming back to the show was the hope of the island and the theme of the show being more important than the characters. There were many themes that brushed up against religion, faith, and inner philosophy. In the end, it was about a light in a cave which turned MIB into smoke but did nothing to Jack or Desmond. Jacob and MIB were twins but they looked nothing alike nor did they resemble their mom at all. In the end, they created a great SciFI show but I wanted more and thought I was was watching more.

Redsfan320
02-27-2011, 10:39 AM
I started missing Lost when January came and went and it didn't come back on the air. I still miss it.

I feel the same way about 24... not that that has anything to do with Lost, which I never watched, though it sounds pretty good.

320

IslandRed
02-27-2011, 02:36 PM
I watched some of the special features and realized the writers themselves were as attached to the characters as the die hard fans were. So Imo this is why the last season and especially the ending is so character driven.

I think what kept many coming back to the show was the hope of the island and the theme of the show being more important than the characters.

The show's producers/writers were pretty clear all along that it was a show about people, not an island. Ultimately, the island and its mysteries and themes were important and relevant only insofar as those things affected the characters.

Of course, there were a lot of hooks in that show, and people attached to it on various levels.

RiverRat13
02-28-2011, 08:56 AM
I've been re-watching Lost the last few weeks on Netflix (haven't bought the complete series yet). It is a great re-watch and you pick up so many of the "Easter eggs" the second time around. I really can't imagine better television than the first season of Lost.

Redsfaithful
02-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Yeah I think the thing about Lost is that if you watched it for the characters and just enjoyed the scifi as a side thing then you probably enjoyed it all the way until the end. If you watched it for the opposite reasons then you were probably irritated.

I thought it was great, but I watched the first five seasons in a marathon period right before season six. I don't know if I would have loved it as much if I'd watched it week to week. A lot of the dead weight episodes didn't bother me, because I didn't have to sit and think about them for a week or more.

durl
02-28-2011, 10:59 AM
The show's producers/writers were pretty clear all along that it was a show about people, not an island. Ultimately, the island and its mysteries and themes were important and relevant only insofar as those things affected the characters.

Of course, there were a lot of hooks in that show, and people attached to it on various levels.

I always saw the Island AS a character in the show. It was spoken of as if it had a will and a purpose. This show did, undoubtedly, study the lives of the people on (as well as off) the Island. Still, the Island was why they were there and it motivated every character at some level. More about the Island should have been revealed because of that.

While I'm all for a good mystery, this series went on for 6 years...that's a lot of time for people to commit to something. More answers would have been good.

redsmetz
02-28-2011, 02:45 PM
BTW, while watching the Oscar nominated film Winter's Bone, my wife commented that the actor in it looked like the guy who played Lennon on Lost. I could see it, but was doubtful. Sure enough, it was him (John Hawkes) and he was nominated for an Oscar himself as Best Supporting Actor.

RiverRat13
02-28-2011, 02:47 PM
I always saw the Island AS a character in the show. It was spoken of as if it had a will and a purpose. This show did, undoubtedly, study the lives of the people on (as well as off) the Island. Still, the Island was why they were there and it motivated every character at some level. More about the Island should have been revealed because of that.

While I'm all for a good mystery, this series went on for 6 years...that's a lot of time for people to commit to something. More answers would have been good.

What all went unanswered?

LoganBuck
02-28-2011, 05:24 PM
What all went unanswered?

The How, What, When, Where, and Why? In regards to the island.

HeatherC1212
03-01-2011, 01:01 AM
I thought I read somewhere that some of those things are answered on the S6 DVD set. I don't have any of them yet so I can't say for sure but I could have sworn there was going to be stuff on there that answered some questions.

BTW-Speaking of Lost actors, Josh Holloway is going to be on Community later this season although I don't know the name of his character or anything. I'm glad former Lost folks are all finding pretty good work. I LOVE Elizabeth Mitchell on on V (if you gave up on that show after the slow S1, then you've missed a fantastic S2 this year....it's been really great), Michael Emerson guested on something recently (The Good Wife??!) and he and Terry O'Quinn are doing a pilot for next season. Daniel Dae Kim is awesome on Hawaii Five O and I think Jorge Garcia, in addition to a small role on Mr. Sunshine, has a pilot lined up for next season too. I'm glad to see this because that cast is way too talented to not be working much.

durl
03-01-2011, 11:00 AM
What all went unanswered?

Some of the things that I hoped to learn more about:

What is the Island's purpose? Is it really sentient?
How did it bring people to itself?
What was the deal with the objects in the cave with the plug?
How did MIB become a smoke monster?
How did the "rules" come about? How does the Island enforce them?
Why did the Island prevent conception/births from taking place?
How did the Island heal people? And why didn't it heal Ben?

Basically, we saw a lot of what the Island could do, but we never learned the "how", "why", and "for what purpose." The mystery was fun but since the series is over, more details would be great.

IslandRed
03-01-2011, 11:43 AM
Basically, we saw a lot of what the Island could do, but we never learned the "how", "why", and "for what purpose." The mystery was fun but since the series is over, more details would be great.

I see where you're coming from, but I also understand the peril of trying to give The Answer. Truth is, they could have made up any dumb half-baked explanation of What It Was All About, half the viewers would have loved it and half would have hated it, and it wouldn't have changed or advanced the story lines one iota. Everything in the show was filtered through the experience of the characters; they didn't know, so neither did we. Life's like that.

But for me, the "for what purpose" was answered clearly enough, even if they didn't stake a position on who or what the Darkness and the Light represented.

Redsfan320
03-01-2011, 01:08 PM
Talk about a show leaving you with a ton of unanswered questions... anyone watch Persons Unknown last summer? Wow.

320

freestyle55
03-02-2011, 03:03 PM
Talk about a show leaving you with a ton of unanswered questions... anyone watch Persons Unknown last summer? Wow.

320

That was the biggest waste of time in my television life...followed closely by Happy Town...both of which ended with a cliffhanger! How can you end a SERIES with a cliff hanger????

BuckeyeRed27
03-02-2011, 05:39 PM
That was the biggest waste of time in my television life...followed closely by Happy Town...both of which ended with a cliffhanger! How can you end a SERIES with a cliff hanger????

You get canceled.