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redsmetz
02-01-2010, 09:54 AM
Tomorrow's the night for the start of the final season of Lost. There is a video on Youtube that alleges to be the first four minutes of the season premiere. There is some new footage about two minutes in that are intriguing. Likewise, there are some of the episodes titles up on IMDB.com at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411008/episodes#season-6. The first two episodes are "LA X Part 1" and "Part 2".

We've been looking forward to this for months. How long into the season before someone says "we have to go back"? And can they tie all of it back in?

The Enquirer's local free paper Metromix had Ten Lingering Lost questions over the weekend:

http://cincinnati.metromix.com/tv/essay_photo_gallery/lingering-lost-questions/1724175/content

Eric_the_Red
02-01-2010, 09:56 AM
Anyone know of a website that quickly recaps the entire Lost series? I stopped watching a few episodes into season 2.

freestyle55
02-01-2010, 10:28 AM
The 8:00 pm hour tomorrow night is the recap show that should go over the first 5 seasons...

If you're really bored, look up Lostpedia...it's insane...

As for the show, I can't think of another show I've been so geeked up to see in my entire life, and I didn't watch it until a few months ago (where my wife and I slammed through 5 seasons on DVD in about 2 months)...the first commercial with any new footage aired last night during Desperate Housewives, and it was outstanding!

redsmetz
02-01-2010, 10:41 AM
ETR, try this quick 8:15 review by ABC. It might make your head spin:

http://screenrant.com/lost-in-8-minutes-15-seconds-recap-video-rob-40171/

BTW, I saw the four minute segment on ABC, so it's the real deal. Again, I'll hold off commenting until after the episode because some may not want to see it until tomorrow night.

Redsfaithful
02-01-2010, 12:28 PM
I watched all five seasons for something work related a few weeks back. I have no idea how all of you people watched this show weekly over the years, some of the cliff hangers might have killed me.

Pretty excited for tomorrow night.

yab1112
02-01-2010, 12:56 PM
I watched all five seasons for something work related a few weeks back. I have no idea how all of you people watched this show weekly over the years, some of the cliff hangers might have killed me.

Pretty excited for tomorrow night.

Umm...are you hiring?! That sounds like a nice gig. I am so pumped for this. I'm using every ounce of self control to not watch that "leaked" first four minutes.

MWM
02-01-2010, 01:08 PM
I watched all five seasons for something work related a few weeks back. I have no idea how all of you people watched this show weekly over the years, some of the cliff hangers might have killed me.

Pretty excited for tomorrow night.

I watched all 5 seasons from start to finish in December and January. It's so much better the second time around. There's very little on TV that interests me, but this show is genius in so many ways. I think it's groundbreaking TV. I don't think I've ever been this excited about a season of anything starting.

durl
02-01-2010, 01:10 PM
We're really looking forward to the last season. The move to Tuesday night means we'll likely have to DVR it and watch it later on Wednesday night, so we'll have to work hard to avoid all the discussion that will take place Wednesday morning.

Someone mentioned a way to catch up. Lostpedia.com will help.

yab1112
02-01-2010, 01:37 PM
We're really looking forward to the last season. The move to Tuesday night means we'll likely have to DVR it and watch it later on Wednesday night, so we'll have to work hard to avoid all the discussion that will take place Wednesday morning.

Someone mentioned a way to catch up. Lostpedia.com will help.

The move to Tuesday night means I don't have to DVR as I have class Wednesday nights. :p:

I agree that Lostpedia is a great place to catch up on everything Lost related, but I'll offer a warning: Once you catch up, don't visit the site during the season.

The Lost fanatics on Lostpedia figure things out before they happen. They go back and watch episodes to find clues, freeze frames, etc. They have information from interviews with the creators, Lost games, and webisodes. If you're anything like me, you like to be surprised by the show or at least like to figure things out on your own. I frequented the site during the early part of season five and it definitely took away from the experience of watching the show. Many theories and predictions from the site were correct. It was really a bummer when the show revealed something and all I thought was "well yea, darmarecruit posted that on Lostpedia two weeks ago."

I'm not trying to take anything away from the site, because I honestly do love it, but tread lightly.

HeatherC1212
02-01-2010, 05:44 PM
I'm totally ready for the season premiere tomorrow night. I've actually been ready for it since last Tuesday when they reaired the season five finale (I still cried when Juliet got sucked into the hole :(). It's exciting but at the same time, now the countdown is on for the true end of the show and I'm NOT ready for that yet. This has been one of the most intriguing, frustrating, mind fraking, and awesome shows on TV and I'm definitely going to miss it when it's over. Good thing the DVDs are all starting to go on sale at Amazon.com. I'll definitely be purchasing them off and on throughout season six so I can rewatch everything again. :D

macro
02-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Previously...on Lost...

KronoRed
02-01-2010, 07:07 PM
Anyone know of a website that quickly recaps the entire Lost series? I stopped watching a few episodes into season 2.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/lost/recaps.php

Happy Reading :D

kbrake
02-02-2010, 08:35 PM
Haven't been this excited for TV since the premiere of the final season of The Sopranos. Recently just purchased all 5 seasons on blu ray from amazon and went through it all again. Amazing show. Tonight will be great.

LoganBuck
02-03-2010, 12:02 AM
What was that?

I spent the whole two hours going, "What?", "Huh"

My jaw dropped several times, and I am very confused.

kbrake
02-03-2010, 12:11 AM
So much for getting answers and not questions since this is the final season. Thank god for dvr. Need to find time for that at least once more before next Tuesday.

MWM
02-03-2010, 12:16 AM
I didn't think there was any way we weren't going to be confused for the season opener. I'm not sure why people "want questions answered" so quickly. I love the direction they're going and we know this is the last season, so we know everything will be answered.

I thought tonight's episode was fantastic. The scene with Jack and Locke in LAX was genius.

MWM
02-03-2010, 01:07 AM
A few items of note from the plane. Clearly, some things were unchanged but others were different

- Shannon wasn't on the plane, but Boone was
- Charlie was on the plane, but was different and knew he was supposed to die somehow
- Did not see Michael or Walt (does not mean they weren't on the plane)
- Hurley was different believing all his luck was good
- Have no idea what to make of Desmond being on the plane

Jack, Rose & Bernard, Sun & Jin, Sayid, Sawyer, Kate, Locke, Boone - all appeared to be the same as when they originally got on Oceanic 815.

I have a hunch that baby Aaron and Walt are going to be a big part of the final season.

HeatherC1212
02-03-2010, 01:09 AM
I loved the entire episode but the part where Juliet died in Sawyer's arms was too sad for me. :(

Too many thoughts in my head right now. I may have to come back tomorrow after I've had time to digest everything. :eek:

And apparently the producers have described this as the season of the 'Flash Sideways' which sounds appropriate with the two timelines we have going right now. I can't wait to see what's next! :D

LoganBuck
02-03-2010, 01:12 AM
Bernard was in the rear bathroom during the turbulence, which explains why he was one of the tail section survivors. Where was Ana Lucia, Libby, and Eko?

What happened to Desmond? How did he get on the plane?

yab1112
02-03-2010, 02:15 AM
As soon as that episode was over, I grabbed a pen and paper to draw some convoluted time line diagrams. :cool:

These two eps didn't reveal much, but there's still a lot to digest:

In an interview once the creators said they wanted this last season to have a lot of parallels to season 1. When Locke says to Boone, "Why would I pull your leg?" that has to be a reference to when Locke and Boone found Remi's plane and Boone got hurt. They ended up amputating his leg. I think the scene where Jack tries to resuscitate Sayid is a word for word copy of a scene from an earlier season where Jack is trying to save someone and Kate tries to tell him it's hopeless. I can't remember who he's trying to save though.

As for Desmond, I have a feeling he's flashing like we've seen him do in earlier seasons. Hence, he's there one second and gone the next.

In the temple, when they hear Jacob is dead they mobilize to defend themselves from the Smoke Monster/New Locke/Black Shirt Guy. But the smoke monster has been roaming free around the island since season one. They want us to think New Locke is the smoke monster, but if that were the case, the Temple Others wouldn't all the sudden be afraid. So, either the smoke monster is its own entity and now that Jacob's dead New Locke has complete control over it...or, New Locke is the smoke monster but was kept somewhat in check by Jacob.

We really don't have enough info after two episodes to sort out the time line mess but it seems, as Heather mentioned, it's some sort of flash-sideways scenario. The time line splits in 1977 at the moment of The Incident. How are they still alive if the bomb went off? It must be the combination of the bomb and the electromagnetic energy. In the new time line, we see that the Island is underwater. However, Jacob is still around because Locke is alive and we know Jacob's the one who saved Lock when he was pushed out the window.

The greatest thing about this show is that I have no frickin clue what's going on. I'll spend the next week debating and rehashing stupid theories and ideas with my friends.

Okay, my brain hurts now. I'm going to bed.

Tony Cloninger
02-03-2010, 02:47 AM
Seems like all the people in LAX keep running into each other even after the plane landed.....Their fate is too always be together no matter what the circumstances or time line...in some way or another.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 03:07 AM
I love the direction they're going and we know this is the last season, so we know everything will be answered.

I'm not so sure about that. I think there have been interviews where they've said they'll leave some things unexplained.

Blimpie
02-03-2010, 08:33 AM
Great episode--I am really digging the parallel universe thing...

Question: When the survivors went to the temple last night to save Sayid, one of the OSO/FOJ (Old School Others/Friends of Jacob) quickly identified them by saying:

"They were on the first plane crash, flight 815...I know because I was on the plane"

Does anybody remember her from prior episodes? Was she a passenger, or part of the flight crew?

Pretty awesome night for ABC. They had better enjoy it while it lasts.

RANDY IN INDY
02-03-2010, 08:38 AM
I believe she was the flight attendent.

klw
02-03-2010, 09:02 AM
Desmond can now be on the plane because he has no longer been stuck on the island pushing buttons for years. His life course changed by not being stuck there. The bomb being set off preceeded when he sailed to the island. Now presumably his boat never sails and he never encounters the island and his life goes on a new course.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 09:04 AM
Yea she was. We saw her briefly in season 3 when Jack, Kate and Sawyer were prisoners of the Others. A group of Others were lead by the cage. The flight attendant was one of those Others.

reds1869
02-03-2010, 09:07 AM
Great episode--I am really digging the parallel universe thing...

Question: When the survivors went to the temple last night to save Sayid, one of the OSO/FOJ (Old School Others/Friends of Jacob) quickly identified them by saying:

"They were on the first plane crash, flight 815...I know because I was on the plane"

Does anybody remember her from prior episodes? Was she a passenger, or part of the flight crew?

Pretty awesome night for ABC. They had better enjoy it while it lasts.

I also could have sworn i saw Michael in the background at the Temple. But I could just be seeing things as Lost tends to make your mind bend. Did anyone happen to catch what the book was Hurley picked up? That is probably not an insignificant detail.

klw
02-03-2010, 09:15 AM
Did anyone happen to catch what the book was Hurley picked up? That is probably not an insignificant detail.

I was Kierkegaard

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/a9d20fd8600e9d17bb7dfce486f098ee

Here's a good webpage for that sort of stuff.
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

reds1869
02-03-2010, 09:17 AM
I was Kierkegaard

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/a9d20fd8600e9d17bb7dfce486f098ee

Thanks, I thought so. But I stupidly deleted my recording and couldn't rewatch...doh!

yab1112
02-03-2010, 09:22 AM
Wikipedia:

Fear and Trembling (original Danish title: Frygt og Bæven) is an influential philosophical work by Søren Kierkegaard, published in 1843 under the pseudonym Johannes de silentio (John the Silent). The title is a reference to a line from Philippians 2:12, "...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Fear and Trembling presents a highly original and provocative interpretation of the Binding of Isaac story as told in Genesis Chapter 22, and uses the story as an occasion to discuss fundamental issues in moral philosophy and the philosophy of religion, such as the nature of God and faith, faith's relationship with ethics and morality, and the difficulty of being authentically religious.

klw
02-03-2010, 09:23 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kierkegaard

The leap of faith is his conception of how an individual would believe in God or how a person would act in love. Faith is not a decision based on evidence that, say, certain beliefs about God are true or a certain person is worthy of love. No such evidence could ever be enough to pragmatically justify the kind of total commitment involved in true religious faith or romantic love. Faith involves making that commitment anyway. Kierkegaard thought that to have faith is at the same time to have doubt. So, for example, for one to truly have faith in God, one would also have to doubt one's beliefs about God; the doubt is the rational part of a person's thought involved in weighing evidence, without which the faith would have no real substance. Someone who does not realize that Christian doctrine is inherently doubtful and that there can be no objective certainty about its truth does not have faith but is merely credulous. For example, it takes no faith to believe that a pencil or a table exists, when one is looking at it and touching it. In the same way, to believe or have faith in God is to know that one has no perceptual or any other access to God, and yet still has faith in God.[43] As Kierkegaard writes, "doubt is conquered by faith, just as it is faith which has brought doubt into the world".[44][45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Trembling

In Fear and Trembling Kierkegaard introduces the "Knight of Faith" and contrasts him with the "knight of infinite resignation". The latter gives up everything in return for the infinite, that which he may receive after this life, and continuously dwells with the pain of his loss. The former, however, not only relinquishes everything, but also trusts that he will receive it all back, his trust based on the "strength of the absurd".

For Kierkegaard, infinite resignation is easy, but faith is founded in the belief in the absurd. The absurd is that which is contradictory to reason itself. For Abraham, this faith in the absurd manifests itself in Abraham's belief that he would kill his only son but he would nevertheless receive him again in his lifetime. Silentio's opinion is that what separates Abraham from being a killer is his faith. (In the end of the Genesis 22 story, an angel stops Abraham at the last moment. A ram appears which Abraham takes as a sign from God, and he sacrifices the ram instead of Isaac.)

An important theme is the conflict between theology and philosophy. According to Kierkegaard, mid-19th-century secular philosophers laughed at faith and saw no mystery in the story of Abraham while professing to find Hegel's philosophy exceedingly difficult. Kierkegaard, however, thought that understanding Hegel was possible (if difficult), but trying to comprehend why Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son caused him to be "virtually annihilated".

The book was referenced on LA X, an episode of Lost.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 09:34 AM
In Fear and Trembling Kierkegaard introduces the "Knight of Faith" and contrasts him with the "knight of infinite resignation". The latter gives up everything in return for the infinite, that which he may receive after this life, and continuously dwells with the pain of his loss. The former, however, not only relinquishes everything, but also trusts that he will receive it all back, his trust based on the "strength of the absurd".

Cool. That sounds an awful lot like Jacob and Black Shirt Man.

redsmetz
02-03-2010, 09:52 AM
In the temple, when they hear Jacob is dead they mobilize to defend themselves from the Smoke Monster/New Locke/Black Shirt Guy. But the smoke monster has been roaming free around the island since season one. They want us to think New Locke is the smoke monster, but if that were the case, the Temple Others wouldn't all the sudden be afraid. So, either the smoke monster is its own entity and now that Jacob's dead New Locke has complete control over it...or, New Locke is the smoke monster but was kept somewhat in check by Jacob.

We really don't have enough info after two episodes to sort out the time line mess but it seems, as Heather mentioned, it's some sort of flash-sideways scenario. The time line splits in 1977 at the moment of The Incident. How are they still alive if the bomb went off? It must be the combination of the bomb and the electromagnetic energy. In the new time line, we see that the Island is underwater. However, Jacob is still around because Locke is alive and we know Jacob's the one who saved Lock when he was pushed out the window.

A couple of thoughts. Their reaction is to the fact that the Man in Black/Smoke Monster has found "the loophole" to have killed Jacob. That's why they begin mobilizing because they realize that the game has changed, that whatever held the Smoke Monster in check is gone. New Locke is the smoke monster because Locke says to Ben that he was sorry he had to see him act like that (after taking out the three men from the Ajira flight who came into the statue base).

One thing we did learn, I realized last night afterward, is that the smoke monster cannot penetrate the powder. The powder surrounded Jacob's cabin, it was also set on the ground inside the base by the one guy, but he fell out of that circle when the Smoke Monster threw something at him. Likewise, that was the first line of defense at the temple.

Back to the Smoke Monster running around previously, again, I think it was held in check by the "loophole" that kept it from killing Jacob.

Mind blowing episodes last night.

Blimpie
02-03-2010, 10:47 AM
Desmond can now be on the plane because he has no longer been stuck on the island pushing buttons for years. His life course changed by not being stuck there. The bomb being set off preceeded when he sailed to the island. Now presumably his boat never sails and he never encounters the island and his life goes on a new course.I would tend to agree with you but for one exception:

There has to be some deja vu mojo working at this time. On the plane, it was obvious that Jack thought he knew Desmond from somewhere before. Sans the existence of the Swan hatch, then that meeting could have only occurred during the Season 1/2? scene where they crossed paths in LA. I think Desmond was there training to sail around the world in Widmore's challenge.

So, if Desmond's entire purpose in life changed after the explosion (meaning that he had no need to sail around the world), then perhaps he would have never met Jack in the scene I described?

My head hurts already.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Could it be that the Desmond we saw on the plane was flashing from the other timeline? He pretended not to know Jack because he knows Jack never met him in the new time line. Granted I have nothing to support this theory except that the Desmond on the plane "disappeared," but that would be pretty cool, no?

Redsmetz, what you were saying about the loophole makes sense. Thanks for helping me understand...at least until next week when they confuse us again :thumbup:

kbrake
02-03-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm not looking for answers right away but I was thrown off by a new group of others. As for that lady she was a flight attendant for sure. She was the one that took care of the kids that were on the plane with no parents.

Looking forward to watching it again and being able to skip through commercials.

MWM
02-03-2010, 11:30 AM
I think they could be doing what they did in Season 4 by showing what happens after they left the islands while simultaneously showing us the events that led to them leaving. In other words, the plane doesn't crash and lands in LAX NOT because of the bomb, but because of whatever events they're showing us on the island now.

This might sound crazy, but I think the conversation between Jack and Locke where Jack offers him a consult "on the house" might be the final scene of the series. It wouldn't surprise me if all the passengers from the flight have to die on the island (and make it go under water) so that the alternate reality of the plane not crashing can take place.

redsmetz
02-03-2010, 11:57 AM
I'm not looking for answers right away but I was thrown off by a new group of others. As for that lady she was a flight attendant for sure. She was the one that took care of the kids that were on the plane with no parents.

Looking forward to watching it again and being able to skip through commercials.

I'll now share some of my thoughts after watching the four minute sneak preview, essentially the closing two minutes of everything being dragged into the shaft and the first two minutes on the plane.

I felt that Jack had a bit of a look that something had changed, some recognition that he was back on the plane and some of that seemed to be carried out in his and Rose's conversation. Also, the flight attendant only gives him one vodka instead of the two in the Pilot episode (with him using the second on the island to disinfect his wound when Kate sews him up). Likewise, Rose is reading a magazine called "Weekly Woodsman" in the new scenario, whereas in the Pilot, you can't see what the magazine is.

My guess is that they all have some sort of deja vu going on during these scenes.

Blimpie
02-03-2010, 01:32 PM
This might sound crazy, but I think the conversation between Jack and Locke where Jack offers him a consult "on the house" might be the final scene of the series. It wouldn't surprise me if all the passengers from the flight have to die on the island (and make it go under water) so that the alternate reality of the plane not crashing can take place.You may be on to something, MWM...

I think the fact that the island was underwater was significant. Maybe the scene was showing us what REALLY happens to the island when it is ever 'moved' by someone like Ben.

HeatherC1212
02-03-2010, 02:32 PM
Random question: Did we ever see the events that may have led up to Smokey not being in the temple anymore? I remember during the flashes last season, when Jin was with Danielle and the other French guys, that Smokey dragged them into the temple when he was attacking them. I assume that he was still living there in that time frame (1980's?), but obviously we know now that Smokey isn't living at the temple anymore because the other Others are now there. I cannot for the life of me remember if we ever got an explanation about this situation. I have no clue if this is even important or not but it occurred to me this morning while reading some of the recaps on various websites and I'm just curious if anyone else has thought about it.

BTW-I really wish I had recorded this ep so I could watch it again tonight. Hopefully it's up on ABC.com soon! :)

kaldaniels
02-03-2010, 02:34 PM
I think they could be doing what they did in Season 4 by showing what happens after they left the islands while simultaneously showing us the events that led to them leaving. In other words, the plane doesn't crash and lands in LAX NOT because of the bomb, but because of whatever events they're showing us on the island now.

This might sound crazy, but I think the conversation between Jack and Locke where Jack offers him a consult "on the house" might be the final scene of the series. It wouldn't surprise me if all the passengers from the flight have to die on the island (and make it go under water) so that the alternate reality of the plane not crashing can take place.

I'm wondering if the Jack/Locke conversation will lead to Jack performing surgery on Locke, allowing him to walk again.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 03:10 PM
Random question: Did we ever see the events that may have led up to Smokey not being in the temple anymore? I remember during the flashes last season, when Jin was with Danielle and the other French guys, that Smokey dragged them into the temple when he was attacking them. I assume that he was still living there in that time frame (1980's?), but obviously we know now that Smokey isn't living at the temple anymore because the other Others are now there. I cannot for the life of me remember if we ever got an explanation about this situation. I have no clue if this is even important or not but it occurred to me this morning while reading some of the recaps on various websites and I'm just curious if anyone else has thought about it.

BTW-I really wish I had recorded this ep so I could watch it again tonight. Hopefully it's up on ABC.com soon! :)

We have examples of the smoke monster in and out of the temple in both time periods. In the 80's, the smoke monster confronts them first in the jungle then drags them to the hole in the temple wall.

In the present (after the Ajira flight crashed), we see the smoke monster rise from a grate in the temple to confront Ben. So it would seem the monster still does live there.

IslandRed
02-03-2010, 04:12 PM
We have examples of the smoke monster in and out of the temple in both time periods. In the 80's, the smoke monster confronts them first in the jungle then drags them to the hole in the temple wall.

In the present (after the Ajira flight crashed), we see the smoke monster rise from a grate in the temple to confront Ben. So it would seem the monster still does live there.

And at the very end of the Season 5 finale, the dying Jacob says "they're coming," and Fake Locke's eyes get big. Combine that with Smokey still having access to the temple, and maybe it's not Smokey/Fake Locke the temple dwellers are preparing to defend against, even though Jacob's death is obviously the trigger. Which leaves the obvious question, then: who, or what, is coming?

Redsfaithful
02-03-2010, 06:02 PM
What does everyone think of Juliet wanting to tell Sawyer "It worked"? I think she might have been flashing between the two realities while dying.

yab1112
02-03-2010, 06:51 PM
What does everyone think of Juliet wanting to tell Sawyer "It worked"? I think she might have been flashing between the two realities while dying.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Something along the lines of what happened to Charlotte as she was dying. That would fit with the seemingly odd line "We should get some coffee."

macro
02-04-2010, 03:00 AM
Given that Fake Lock said "I want to go home!" and then had this Satanic look on his face afterward, I think that Fake Lock / Man in Black / Smoke Monster may very well represent Satan himself. Either that or at least its one of his underlings.

Blimpie
02-04-2010, 08:33 AM
Given that Fake Lock said "I want to go home!" and then had this Satanic look on his face afterward, I think that Fake Lock / Man in Black / Smoke Monster may very well represent Satan himself. Either that or at least its one of his underlings.When he said that, I actually had a sense that he was implying the island was his purgatory.

marcshoe
02-04-2010, 11:41 AM
Not to mention the Book of Job type conversation between Jacob and the dark man in last season's finale.

A lot going on here. This should be an interesting season.

MWM
02-04-2010, 12:50 PM
There are a lot of Lost fanatics who think that Jacob and the other guy could be Jacob and Esau from the Old Testament. It's referred to as the egyptian theory.

klw
02-04-2010, 12:53 PM
There are a lot of Lost fanatics who think that Jacob and the other guy could be Jacob and Esau from the Old Testament. It's referred to as the egyptian theory.

I think they are somehow Jack and Sawyer.

macro
02-05-2010, 12:50 AM
I must say I'm very impressed with Terry O'Quinn's acting in this week's episode. One minute he's very devilish and the next he's the mild-mannered John Locke in the wheelchair, and plays both convincingly.

This scene will stick in my mind for a long time:

http://i46.tinypic.com/111mg54.jpg

LoganBuck
02-05-2010, 07:42 AM
Watched it again last night.

Struck by several things.

-The conversation between Jack and Locke at the Lost baggage counter, was a role reversal from "Men of faith, Men of science". Jack is offering the position that nothing is impossible, Locke isn't so sure.

-I think there is significance that Locke's knives, and Christian Sheppard's body being the things that are missing.

-I am back to not caring about the Kate story line. Kate's off island life is so mind numbingly stupid that I don't want to see it brought back up. I hated her from season 1-4, last year was ok. Don't start up that stupid, Kate the fugitive, story line again.

-What was on Jack's neck, was that a cut, or some sort of tattoo/marking?

-Was Charlie saying something that shows he has some recognition of what was happening, or was he just a druggie with a death wish?

-I need to look up more info on Jin and the money, watch, and the assailant at the Sydney airport that fought with him in the bathroom. I forget the details but I remember some sort of ominous warning.

-The "new" Others are interesting. Can't wait for more details, on the temple, spring, and their knowledge/relationship of/with Jacob.

-The timeline has obviously changed, why? Where are some of the tail section people? Why did Shannon not get on the plane? Why did Jack have a similar but different exchange with the stewardess?

-The island underwater showed lots of seaweed and underwater rot. Why did it still cause turbulance?

redsmetz
02-05-2010, 12:11 PM
-The timeline has obviously changed, why? Where are some of the tail section people? Why did Shannon not get on the plane? Why did Jack have a similar but different exchange with the stewardess?

Some absences are because the actors aren't available, e.g Michael who isn ow on another show (and Walt, who is now too old to play himself at that point in time). It's why Juliette died and I'm not sure how much more we'll see Charlie, since he's on another show (as is Penny, same show). I'm not sure about Shannon, although she has four movies in production this year.

As for Jack's exchange with the stewardess, since things have changed, there's no need for him to have that second bottle of vodka to use later (although he didn't know he'd need it later originally). I think it was a way to show "things have changed."

marcshoe
02-05-2010, 12:11 PM
interesting interview on Jimmy Kimmel here (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=62960) with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. Confirmed: Locke 2.0 is the smoke monster (I think someone here questioned that.)

IslandRed
02-05-2010, 12:21 PM
There are a lot of Lost fanatics who think that Jacob and the other guy could be Jacob and Esau from the Old Testament. It's referred to as the egyptian theory.

Could be. In last season's finale, because Jacob came across as this peaceful righteous dude and the other guy wanted to kill him, a lot of people decided Jacob was The Good One, forgetting where Ben (no one's definition of good guy) had been getting his marching orders. But even if Jacob isn't "good," that doesn't mean the Man In Black/Smoke Monster/Fake Locke is, either. As with most everything else on this show, it's never that simple.

yab1112
02-05-2010, 01:03 PM
interesting interview on Jimmy Kimmel here (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=62960) with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. Confirmed: Locke 2.0 is the smoke monster (I think someone here questioned that.)

That would be me. As per usual with this show, revealing that bit of information leads to many more questions. So this guy is the Smoke Monster. What has he been doing on the Island since season 1? What I mean is, can we look back at the smoke monster's actions through the first 5 seasons and tie it in with Black shirt guys motives? Were they all actions that helped get him to the final act of killing Jacob?

Additionally, Ben was told, presumably by Jacob, that the monster was some sort of security system for the island. Ben had some ability to call it/use it. So the Black Shirt Guy, for some period of time, had to do Jacob's bidding?

pahster
02-06-2010, 04:14 PM
Could be. In last season's finale, because Jacob came across as this peaceful righteous dude and the other guy wanted to kill him, a lot of people decided Jacob was The Good One, forgetting where Ben (no one's definition of good guy) had been getting his marching orders. But even if Jacob isn't "good," that doesn't mean the Man In Black/Smoke Monster/Fake Locke is, either. As with most everything else on this show, it's never that simple.

Ben never spoke with Jacob until the moment before he killed him.

LoganBuck
02-06-2010, 05:26 PM
Do we take this episode to mean that Hurley is indeed lucky, in the new timeline? He is doing business for "Outback Cluck U Chicken", and claims he is the "luckiest man alive". His original reason for visiting Australia was to investigate the numbers. How has his luck changed? Has it changed?

IslandRed
02-06-2010, 07:43 PM
Ben never spoke with Jacob until the moment before he killed him.

That's true. I suppose, in typical Lost fashion, it's possible he and Richard and everyone else working for Jacob all these years have been fooled and the directives really didn't come from him. I don't think so, myself, especially now that we know Jacob actually exists, but I've been wrong before.

RiverRat13
02-06-2010, 09:26 PM
Locke said something to Richard about liking him better when he was in chains. Is that a reference we should already know? Was Richard in bondage perhaps on the Black Pearl?

yab1112
02-06-2010, 10:31 PM
Ben never met or spoke to Jacob before, but Richard has. I think the commands were given through him.


Was Richard in bondage perhaps on the Black Pearl? With Jack Sparrow? ;) I agree though. The Black Rock was a slave ship and Richard has been on the Island for a long time so it fits.

RiverRat13
02-07-2010, 12:39 AM
With Jack Sparrow? ;) I agree though. The Black Rock was a slave ship and Richard has been on the Island for a long time so it fits.

Oooops. The funny thing is that I don't think POTC is what put "Black Pearl" in my head but rather I just watched an episode of Kitchen Nightmares where Ramsey tried to save a seafood restaurant called the Black Pearl.

Yachtzee
02-07-2010, 02:03 PM
That would be me. As per usual with this show, revealing that bit of information leads to many more questions. So this guy is the Smoke Monster. What has he been doing on the Island since season 1? What I mean is, can we look back at the smoke monster's actions through the first 5 seasons and tie it in with Black shirt guys motives? Were they all actions that helped get him to the final act of killing Jacob?

Additionally, Ben was told, presumably by Jacob, that the monster was some sort of security system for the island. Ben had some ability to call it/use it. So the Black Shirt Guy, for some period of time, had to do Jacob's bidding?

Smoke Monster guy seems to be able to take the form of dead people on the island. He has appeared as Locke (body came on Ajira flight), Christian Shepard (his body came to the island on the first Oceanic 815), and Yemi (body in the wreckage of the drug plane). He appeared as Yemi to Eko and when the Smoke Monster killed Eko, I think Eko told Locke, "You're Next." Christian Shepard appeared to Locke when he was moving the island, telling Locke something about having to die ("sacrifice" himself) to bring the Oceanic Six back to the island and save everyone. Now that Locke's body is back on the island, he appears as Locke. It makes it seem as though Smoke Monster Man has been using the dead to manipulate Locke and Ben to set forth his plan to kill Jacob. He even used Ben's dead adoptive daughter to get Ben to listen to whatever "Locke" told him.

marcshoe
02-07-2010, 04:34 PM
There were two strange things about the Christian Shepard appearances: first, his coffin ended up broken with the body missing, and second, he appeared to Jack when he was off the island. Add that to his body being missing in the new timeline, and I wonder if something different is going on there.

yab1112
02-07-2010, 04:41 PM
I'm really hope they have an episode where they go back and show us the cause-and-effect chain of Smoke Monsters actions.

LoganBuck
02-07-2010, 05:25 PM
There were two strange things about the Christian Shepard appearances: first, his coffin ended up broken with the body missing, and second, he appeared to Jack when he was off the island. Add that to his body being missing in the new timeline, and I wonder if something different is going on there.

I have been trying to reconcile Christian Shephard and the Smoke Monster for the last 8 months. The answer is we don't know. Christian appeared in Jacob's cabin to Locke and Claire. The cabin was surrounded by the anti smoke monster powder. Presumably the smoke monster could not enter.

Then last season we find that anti smoke monster powder circle was broken and that someone else had been using the cabin.

I feel that these two events are very important to the storyline.

Further we know that Jacob appeared off the island. Christian has appeared to Jack off the island as well.

Where do Aaron and Claire fit in this equation. Who knows?

durl
02-08-2010, 01:43 AM
Thoughts:

- I also noticed Hurley's "luckiest guy in the world" statement. He's definitely changed from the guy who thought he was cursed.

- The spot on Jack's neck on the plane? Perhaps a connection to the "Jack" on the island?

- Desmond. He could have still crashed his boat near Sydney and gotten on the flight, but why? I can't recall him having any connections to LA. Faraday said the rules didn't apply to him, so we may have to wait to see the significance of Desmond on the plane.

- If the timeline "changed" when the plane flew over the island and didn't crash, why would Shannon not be on the plane? It doesn't make sense. Before the plane crashed, she was ON that plane so she should be on it when it lands. That makes me think that all that we saw on the plane may not be what we think it is.

- Jacob and his "enemy". Jacob seems to represent "grace" or "mercy." His enemy (Locke 2.0 as someone said) is more about judgment and condemnation.

- The ash. We first saw that around Jacob's cabin. At that point I thought it was to keep Jacob trapped inside somehow. Since we saw it there, that's GOT to be some clue about the true nature of the smoke monster.

- Jacob said he died. Yet he wasn't dead. So, which is it? Dark Man thinks he can be killed so I'm curious to find how this works out.

I've formulated lots of hypotheses over the past 5 years but now it seems almost futile because of all the new twists and revelations. Still, I believe it's going to be a VERY interesting season.

LoganBuck
02-10-2010, 08:43 AM
The scenes with the Others last night were like trying to go to the BMV. You will eventually get somewhere, but the journey kills you. How tedious.

Blimpie
02-10-2010, 09:15 AM
Claire is back. Hooray.

"She's back, she's infected, and she's got a score to settle..."

I am ready to push last night's episode into the 'Much ado about nothing' camp.

Donder
02-10-2010, 10:02 AM
I agree with both Logan and Blimpie. ABC needs to stop the "no more questions, now is the time for answers" promos when they're showing placeholder episodes like last night.

redsmetz
02-10-2010, 10:23 AM
Claire is back. Hooray.

"She's back, she's infected, and she's got a score to settle..."

I am ready to push last night's episode into the 'Much ado about nothing' camp.

The question I have about Claire is whether she's been given the same pill they prepared for Sayid (I'm thinking not, but I could be wrong). And Ethan as the doctor at the LA hospital. Yikes, another twist!

TheBigLebowski
02-10-2010, 12:59 PM
Last night was a complete waste of time. Ugh.

LoganBuck
02-10-2010, 03:39 PM
Add to that it was a Kate heavy episode. Those always stink. Kate is the least interesting character off and on the island in the entire group. Yet we keep getting her stupid story rammed down our throat. We get it. She is a fugitive, with a heart of gold. Lather rinse repeat.

reds1869
02-10-2010, 04:27 PM
I was disappointed in last night's episode but have to think several things will be important down the road. The interaction between Jack, Sayid and the others especially so.

schmidty622
02-10-2010, 04:53 PM
Cool. That sounds an awful lot like Jacob and Black Shirt Man.

Actually I think it sounds more Locke and Jack. Locke in my opinion has been the Knight of Faith throughout the whole show. Placing his faith in the island no matter how "absurd" it became.

MWM
02-10-2010, 05:25 PM
I liked the episode. The people in charge of Lost have gained enough equity with me that I trust that they know what's best as far as telling THE WHOLE story. They've done such a brilliant job thus far that I think it's a waste to nitpick how they "should" be doing things now.

I get the impression some folks just want an episode where they plainly just tell all the answers. This thing has been a big puzzle the entire time. They're putting the final pieces in on the table before they put them all together. There is a reason why they're doing it the way they're doing it and when all is said and done, I doubt anyone is going to say that they wish they would have just known the answers to the first 5 seasons a few weeks sooner. We don't even know what we don't know yet, so how can we opine on how it should be resolved.

kbrake
02-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Guess I'm in the minority I liked last nights episode. I agree the Kate stuff can get old but Jack is extremely interesting right now as is the stuff with Sayid and Claire.

I wonder if the storyline where they arrive at LAX that we are seeing now is the end of the series and we are seeing what happens once they find a way to prevent the plane from ever crashing like Faraday's idea at the end of season 5. Most likely not but just thinking about it.

Redsfaithful
02-10-2010, 07:25 PM
Last night was kind of bleh, but you're going to have that, it's not really an episodic show, there's an arc. If you were watching all of season 6 at once I doubt you'd think that episode was that bad. Some episodes have to lay the groundwork for the future, and after the opener revealed so much I doubted that last night would be moving the story along all that much anyway.

OUReds
02-10-2010, 07:26 PM
I liked the episode. The people in charge of Lost have gained enough equity with me that I trust that they know what's best as far as telling THE WHOLE story. They've done such a brilliant job thus far that I think it's a waste to nitpick how they "should" be doing things now.

Me too, the island stuff yesterday was alright.

That equity doesn't make the Kate "flash sideways" story last night any better though.

Just. Awful.

Joseph
02-10-2010, 07:30 PM
Kates just a *****. lol.

Pick a dude already and get off the other ones jock. Its not an interesting love triangle and is actually one of the weaker story telling points in an otherwise brilliant series.

marcshoe
02-10-2010, 07:46 PM
Problem is, there's so much to remember that I can't put together all the implications of Claire being infected and, at the same time, becoming the second coming of Rousseau. Time to check out Lostpedia.

durl
02-11-2010, 10:58 AM
I liked the episode. I'm fine with them giving us these "setup" episodes that serve to get us to the end answers.

- Interesting episode name, "What Kate Does" when her original flashback was entitled "What Kate Did."

- Claire blurts out the name "Aaron." Another indicator that what happened/is happening on the island is somehow linked to this new sideways flash.

- Claire's ultrasound date is a month AFTER the day that flight 815 was supposed to land in LA. Error or something significant? We paused on that picture for awhile but didn't notice anything else out of place.

- The "sickness" that Rousseau talked about is back. Perhaps this is a setup to explain how it affects people. And Rousseau mentioned a long time ago that she killed her companions because they were infected and strongly implied that it would be very bad if they were to get off the island in an infected state. Meanwhile, Locke 2.0 has said that he wants to go home...perhaps off the island?

- Another infection thing...Claire is said to be infected but, to the Others, she seems to be the "new" Rousseau (setting traps, living out in the jungle) when Rousseau was NOT infected.

- It's said that Sayid has been "claimed." Is that a clue about how Jacob and his counterpart interact and their purposes?

- Sayid must take the pill willingly for it to work. Poison doesn't work that way so there's got to be more to that. Another piece to the "free will" vs "fate" puzzle?

- If the Others are protecting the Losties, why would they not want Jin to know about the Ajiri flight that crashed there?

A few more clues and a few more questions. Normal stuff, I guess. I'm sure all this setup stuff will pay off soon.

yab1112
02-11-2010, 11:27 AM
- Claire's ultrasound date is a month AFTER the day that flight 815 was supposed to land in LA. Error or something significant? We paused on that picture for awhile but didn't notice anything else out of place.

Nice find, I hadn't noticed that. I think if we've learned anything after five seasons it's that it's most likely significant and not an error. Where in the episode does it show the date?


- If the Others are protecting the Losties, why would they not want Jin to know about the Ajiri flight that crashed there?

I thought the others were pretty out of character this episode. Aren't they supposed to be master trackers? All of the sudden they're falling for dummy trails?

As for why they didn't want Jin to know, I have one possible explanation: The others know that Sun and the rest of the Ajira passengers are with New Locke. They know how dangerous he is and are trying to protect Jin from him. They know if Jin finds out where Sun is not only will he put himself in harms way, but he now has intel on the inside of the temple, their defenses, etc., that New Locke would be very interested in.

MWM
02-11-2010, 11:43 AM
The things Ethan said to Claire in LA were almost the exact same things he said to her on the island.

redsmetz
02-17-2010, 01:26 PM
I'm surprised no one's made mention of last night's episode. I'm still trying to process it, but some interesting stuff. Mostly more questions.

Joseph
02-17-2010, 01:50 PM
I'm surprised no one's made mention of last night's episode. I'm still trying to process it, but some interesting stuff. Mostly more questions.

One thing that popped up for me, though I could have missed it, but Kates name was not among the names shown. Does that mean she's irrelevant? Does that mean she's going to die? It almost implied that the candidates were all that mattered and the others were expendable, therefore maybe she's expendable.

HeatherC1212
02-17-2010, 02:32 PM
- Claire's ultrasound date is a month AFTER the day that flight 815 was supposed to land in LA. Error or something significant? We paused on that picture for awhile but didn't notice anything else out of place.

Someone on another board pointed out that usually in an ultrasound, the date that shows up on the screen is the DUE DATE and not the current date. If Claire was 8 months pregnant at the time, this makes perfect sense.

I will have to watch last night again (I recorded it) because I was going back and forth between Olympics coverage and the show and I didn't quite get everything in the show. The Olympics are exhausting me, LOL :laugh:

durl
02-17-2010, 02:50 PM
Interesting to see the "source" of the numbers.

And did we find out what the mysterious ash that blocks Smokey consists of??

I'm anxious to find out why Sawyer could see the kid but Richard couldn't.

marcshoe
02-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Sawyer was on the list; that may be why. I'd like to know Richard's whole story.

I noticed Kate's name being missing as well. I wish I'd recorded last night, but I would imagine the number/name links are available all over the place.

btw, I assume the kid is Jacob, right?

yab1112
02-17-2010, 03:42 PM
One thing that popped up for me, though I could have missed it, but Kates name was not among the names shown. Does that mean she's irrelevant? Does that mean she's going to die? It almost implied that the candidates were all that mattered and the others were expendable, therefore maybe she's expendable.

That's what I was thinking. It was definitely a significant omission. Can't wait to find out more about Richard, it looked for a second like we would :(

HotCorner
02-17-2010, 03:45 PM
Fantastic episode last night! Terry O'Quinn and Josh Holloway brought their A game last night.

yab1112
02-17-2010, 03:46 PM
btw, I assume the kid is Jacob, right?

The two friends I was watching with said the same thing.

MWM
02-17-2010, 03:47 PM
I think it's probably Jacob. But it could be Aaron. I think Aaron will play a big role in all of this somehow (pure speculation on my part).

yab1112
02-17-2010, 07:32 PM
I think it's probably Jacob. But it could be Aaron. I think Aaron will play a big role in all of this somehow (pure speculation on my part).

I didn't think of that! That's a good call!

I thought Locke was going to run into Walt at his new job as a teacher. I guess it didn't really make sense though because he's older now.

Blimpie
02-17-2010, 07:34 PM
FWIW, my money is also on the kid being Aaron.

When speaking to Locke 2.0, I think he said something like: "you broke the rules...you were not allowed to kill him."

Assuming the kid meant Jacob, then he would have to be somebody else.

marcshoe
02-17-2010, 10:42 PM
Or maybe Aaron is Jacob. :eek: Okay, I'm reaching.

BuckeyeRed27
02-17-2010, 10:58 PM
I think the kid was Jacob. I'm not sure Aaron will really be seen again. I'm thinking that when he told Locke 2.0 that he couldn't kill him he was talking about Sawyer because he might be the new leader.

The numbers in the cave were really interesting. The people that weren't crossed off were the hatch numbers, but there were a lot of known and unknown that also had numbers. Man I love this show.

reds1869
02-18-2010, 08:09 AM
I lean towards the kid being Aaron. If not, it sure is a coincidence how much they went out of the way to cast a kid who looks like Claire's son. If there's one thing that this show doesn't do it is coincidence.

durl
02-18-2010, 10:40 AM
Something occurred to me about the cave. If Jacob has a cave, does that mean that Locke 2.0 has a cave? Like the one we saw in season one? Which also included a black and a white stone (with the two bodies)? Hmmmm....

Just thinking out loud...

durl
02-18-2010, 10:53 AM
The numbers in the cave were really interesting. The people that weren't crossed off were the hatch numbers, but there were a lot of known and unknown that also had numbers. Man I love this show.

I'm anxious to learn is why the Dharma people chose those numbers as the code for the Swan computer.

I used to have all kinds of theories about how stuff would fit together but I've had to abandon most of those. Now I'm just having fun watching it unfold and seeing how it all fits together.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-18-2010, 11:09 AM
That's what I was thinking. It was definitely a significant omission. Can't wait to find out more about Richard, it looked for a second like we would :(I don't remember seing Kate again after her and Sawyer talked on the dock. My wife even asked what happened to Kate, it's not normal for this show to not go back to a prior situation. Maybe she's not going to die, maybe she is already dead.

pahster
02-18-2010, 11:21 AM
I don't remember seing Kate again after her and Sawyer talked on the dock. My wife even asked what happened to Kate, it's not normal for this show to not go back to a prior situation. Maybe she's not going to die, maybe she is already dead.

She went back to the temple.

Blimpie
02-18-2010, 01:09 PM
I'm anxious to learn is why the Dharma people chose those numbers as the code for the Swan computer.The numbers were also:

-Found in the actual serial nuber that appeared on the Swan station (the hatch).

-Used within the broadcasted 'distress signal' that was launched by Russeau (sp?)

savafan
02-18-2010, 01:27 PM
I can't remember, did Jacob ever visit Kate off of the island like he did the others?

klw
02-18-2010, 02:14 PM
I can't remember, did Jacob ever visit Kate off of the island like he did the others?

Yes when she was a girl and was caught shoplifting by the shop manager. He paid for the item and spoke with Kate.

savafan
02-18-2010, 03:39 PM
Yes when she was a girl and was caught shoplifting by the shop manager. He paid for the item and spoke with Kate.

Right, I remember that now. Hmm...:confused:

klw
02-18-2010, 04:52 PM
Right, I remember that now. Hmm...:confused:

Well he also only visited Kate and Sawyer when they were children. The rest he visited as adults. The visit to Locke as a child was by Richard. Discuss amongst yourselves.

freestyle55
02-19-2010, 12:59 AM
The numbers were also:

-Found in the actual serial nuber that appeared on the Swan station (the hatch).

-Used within the broadcasted 'distress signal' that was launched by Russeau (sp?)

In season 5, they showed that someone from Dharma stamped those numbers on the hatch, and Rousseau's signal was the french that Shannon deciphered in season 1. The numbers were what were originally playing that drew the French crew to the island and what the guy who told the guy who told Hurley heard while in the S. Pacific...

The thing is, they told us that they stood for people, but they didn't tell us much else. Do we really trust Flocke that Jacob wrote those, or could they have been his?

freestyle55
02-19-2010, 01:03 AM
I don't remember seing Kate again after her and Sawyer talked on the dock. My wife even asked what happened to Kate, it's not normal for this show to not go back to a prior situation. Maybe she's not going to die, maybe she is already dead.

It seems that this season, at least for now, they just can't fit all the stories in one hour...seems to be focused on one person and their story on the alt timeline and the island timeline. Just so happens that right now, there are 3 "stories" on the island with the "other" others, the original others and Sun, and Flocke/Sawyer...plus all the stories in the alt timeline.

durl
02-19-2010, 02:33 AM
Well he also only visited Kate and Sawyer when they were children. The rest he visited as adults. The visit to Locke as a child was by Richard. Discuss amongst yourselves.

Very nice catch. My original thought was that Jacob appeared to them at pivotal moments in their lives and, for Sawyer and Kate, that happened to be when they were younger. Still, it's intriguing to think that their ages might be significant.

RANDY IN INDY
02-19-2010, 09:11 AM
Do you think it was significant when Locke took the white rock of the balancing scale and threw it into the ocean, leaving only the black rock?

savafan
02-19-2010, 09:44 AM
Do you think it was significant when Locke took the white rock of the balancing scale and threw it into the ocean, leaving only the black rock?

I'm sure it is. Remember that the Black Rock is the British trading ship that was found shipwrecked in the Dark Territory on the Island.

yab1112
02-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Do you think it was significant when Locke took the white rock of the balancing scale and threw it into the ocean, leaving only the black rock?

Locke mentioned how it was an "inside joke." I don't know if the action itself was significant; rather, it was significant in what it symbolized- there was no longer balance on the island. The white rock, Jacob was out of the equation.

Something about the numbers bothers me. If the numbers just represented a spot on the "candidate list" then why were they so significant throughout the islands history? On the other hand, if those specific numbers imply more importance than the average candidates number on the list, it seems odd that Jacob would waste his time testing so many others (All the crossed out names on the cave walls).

I'm probably reading too much into that one, but what else am I supposed to do between episodes?

klw
02-19-2010, 01:31 PM
It could also be that the numbers exist and then the candidates are attached to the numbers after the fact.

macro
02-19-2010, 01:31 PM
The numbers in the cave were really interesting. The people that weren't crossed off were the hatch numbers, but there were a lot of known and unknown that also had numbers. Man I love this show.

Regarding the names on the ceiling of the cave, Jack Shepherd's number was 23. The 23rd Psalm begins "The Lord is my shepherd...".

Also, there was a ladder leading down to Jacob's cave. Was that meant to symbolize "Jacob's Ladder"? The Biblical Jacob envisioned a ladder to heaven while running from his brother Esau, which was referred to as Jacob's Ladder.

Some have speculated that Fake Locke is in purgatory, waiting his final destination. Remember earlier, he told Ben, "I want to go home!" Also, do you remember Sawyer's reply when he asked him if he was ready to go with him? Interesting choice of words in his reply, I thought.

Just some things to think about...

RiverRat13
02-19-2010, 01:44 PM
I've read on another board that the young boy could be a referee-type entity that officiates Jacob and the man in black.

TeamCasey
02-19-2010, 01:45 PM
Thank you, Macro. Very interesting, indeed!

savafan
02-19-2010, 01:57 PM
Regarding the names on the ceiling of the cave, Jack Shepherd's number was 23. The 23rd Psalm begins "The Lord is my shepherd...".



Are there scriptures that reference the other numbers to castaways?

FutureRedsGM
02-23-2010, 10:37 PM
Anyone want to fill me in on what I missed in the first 20-30 mins?

reds1869
02-24-2010, 07:52 AM
Anyone want to fill me in on what I missed in the first 20-30 mins?

I think you'd be best served by just watching the entire episode. The first 30 minutes were pretty important to the future of the series. ABC has the entire episode streaming on their website.

macro
02-24-2010, 09:31 AM
Is this the first time we've been made aware that Jack has this son? I didn't immediately find the answer at Lostpedia.

Also, I noticed that on Lostpedia they're referring to the evil Claire as "Flaire", a play on Flock - Fake Lock. :laugh:

TeamCasey
02-24-2010, 09:36 AM
I've heard Locke 2.0 referred to as Smocke as well. (Locke + Smokey).

HotCorner
02-24-2010, 11:55 AM
I've also heard Flocke referred to as the Lockeness Monster.

As for Jack having a son, this is a new twist in the alt timeline. It's apparent that life events prior to the Oceanic 815 have also changed.

This episode had some of the best lines either due to it's humor or it's raw honesty.

"He just shows up when he wants to like Obi Wan Kenobi" -Hurley about Jacob to Jack

"I was broken." - Jack to Hurley on why he came back to the island

HotCorner
02-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Is this the first time we've been made aware that Jack has this son? I didn't immediately find the answer at Lostpedia.

Also, I noticed that on Lostpedia they're referring to the evil Claire as "Flaire", a play on Flock - Fake Lock. :laugh:

Wouldn't it make more sense to call her eClaire as in evil Claire? :D

redsmetz
02-24-2010, 12:07 PM
I'm putting money on Jack's son's mother being someone significant. I can't say that for certain, but I'm prepared for them to be smacking us around with some salacious detail like that.

MWM
02-24-2010, 12:22 PM
I'm putting money on Jack's son's mother being someone significant. I can't say that for certain, but I'm prepared for them to be smacking us around with some salacious detail like that.

I agree. But I can't think of who. I doubt it's Juliet because she was in Florida and Jack is in LA. I'm wondering if there's some connection with Faraday's family because Jack's son plays the piano and Daniel played the piano so well as a kid. I can't think of anyone else on the plane that it could be, but we've learned that the others are no longer on the Island in the alternate reality, so I think it has to be one of them, but I don't have a clue as to who.

kaldaniels
02-24-2010, 12:55 PM
I agree. But I can't think of who. I doubt it's Juliet because she was in Florida and Jack is in LA. I'm wondering if there's some connection with Faraday's family because Jack's son plays the piano and Daniel played the piano so well as a kid. I can't think of anyone else on the plane that it could be, but we've learned that the others are no longer on the Island in the alternate reality, so I think it has to be one of them, but I don't have a clue as to who.

I think Rose's location changed during the new flashbacks. Wasn't she intially based out of NYC, but is now in LA at the staffing center.

klw
02-24-2010, 01:28 PM
Anyone want to fill me in on what I missed in the first 20-30 mins?

All the series' questions were answered in a succinct and logical fashion. The rest of the season will smiply play out as a mechanism to tie up a few loose ends. :D

RiverRat13
02-24-2010, 02:41 PM
I agree. But I can't think of who. I doubt it's Juliet because she was in Florida and Jack is in LA.

Yeah, isn't Juliet off fighting not-as-nice-as-they-seem aliens in the alternative time plane??? ;)

BuckeyeRed27
02-24-2010, 02:53 PM
Everything in the mirror time line is different in some way. Right before Jack broke the mirrors he says that they have been watched the entire time and presumably in the other time line they haven't.

Yachtzee
02-24-2010, 03:22 PM
Everything in the mirror time line is different in some way. Right before Jack broke the mirrors he says that they have been watched the entire time and presumably in the other time line they haven't.

I actually wondered if maybe, when Jack saw his childhood home in the mirror, he was actually getting a peak into the alternate timeline, but didn't watch long enough to figure that out.

yab1112
02-24-2010, 04:00 PM
There's a picture they show in Jack's home of what I assume is him, his ex and his son. I can't be sure but I thought it was the woman who he almost married in his flashbacks a few seasons ago. The woman who's spine he operated on and saved.

reds1869
02-24-2010, 06:35 PM
There's a picture they show in Jack's home of what I assume is him, his ex and his son. I can't be sure but I thought it was the woman who he almost married in his flashbacks a few seasons ago. The woman who's spine he operated on and saved.

I believe you are right.

Allegro
02-25-2010, 12:35 PM
There's a picture they show in Jack's home of what I assume is him, his ex and his son. I can't be sure but I thought it was the woman who he almost married in his flashbacks a few seasons ago. The woman who's spine he operated on and saved.

They did end up getting married in a Season 1 (I think) flashback. She ends up leaving him because of his obsession with wanting/needing to fix everything.

savafan
02-25-2010, 01:27 PM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

savafan
02-25-2010, 01:47 PM
Can we now assume that the figure that Locke saw in the cabin when he was there with Ben was not Jacob?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/9/97/3x20_Jacob_portrait.jpg

LoganBuck
02-25-2010, 02:17 PM
My working theory is that Jack's tattoo, that was a the basis of much angst, years ago, is a key point here. It means "He walks among us, but is not one of us." At the time the meaning was revealed, people said "Who cares, what was Dharma doing with those polar bears?" This had followed a week of teasing about "a major question will be answered".

Seems to fit more appropriately with this point in the story, than it did then doesn't it?

savafan
02-25-2010, 03:00 PM
My working theory is that Jack's tattoo, that was a the basis of much angst, years ago, is a key point here. It means "He walks among us, but is not one of us." At the time the meaning was revealed, people said "Who cares, what was Dharma doing with those polar bears?" This had followed a week of teasing about "a major question will be answered".

Seems to fit more appropriately with this point in the story, than it did then doesn't it?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Jack%27s_tattoo


In "Stranger in a Strange Land" while Jack is in captivity on Hydra Island, Isabel remarks on the irony of the tattoo, and asks Jack if he knows what they mean. She later translates the characters' meaning to "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us." When Jack is told this, he says "That's what they say. That's not what they mean." The translation of the Chinese characters given by Isabel is however, not literally accurate.

A word by word explanation of the 4 Chinese characters on the tattoo:

鷹 击 長 空
鷹 means eagle.
击 means strike, as a verb.
長 means long.
空 means "sky", "space", void, "empty".
These characters are pronounced ying ji chang kong (in PinYin). These four characters are taken from a famous poem written by Chairman Mao Tse-tung (Mao Zedong). It may be roughly translated as "Eagles high, cleaving sky", or more simply, "the Eagles fly up on the sky". But the poem itself has a deeper meaning. In the end of the first stanza, the poet asks, "who masters fate's rise and descent?"



Trivia

The 1st Season DVD interview with Matthew Fox mentions that these tattoos were his before the show. The producers first considered putting make-up over them, but later decided they fit in with the show and kept them.
The fact that the tattoos received an entire episode to explain them has led to widespread derision of the tattoos among the Lost fanbase. Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse regularly joke about the tattoos in interviews, often joking another episode will focus on them or that they hold deeper importance.

LoganBuck
03-03-2010, 04:00 PM
What an episode last night. I am still processing what we saw. Sayid is evil now. I find it interesting that in Sayid's life, he shot young Ben Linus no more than two days ago. Now he is killing Dogen, and the John Lennon look alike. It wasn't a very long walk for him was it.

Claire is crazy, Kate is still Kate. Are we to take it that Kate is now following Flocke/Smocke?

Allana sure knew where exactly to go in the temple didn't she?

I liked Ben's look of shock when he talked to Sayid. Next week's preview implies bad times ahead for Ben.

pahster
03-03-2010, 04:04 PM
What an episode last night. I am still processing what we saw. Sayid is evil now. I find it interesting that in Sayid's life, he shot young Ben Linus no more than two days ago. Now he is killing Dogen, and the John Lennon look alike. It wasn't a very long walk for him was it.

Claire is crazy, Kate is still Kate. Are we to take it that Kate is now following Flocke/Smocke?

Allana sure knew where exactly to go in the temple didn't she?

I liked Ben's look of shock when he talked to Sayid. Next week's preview implies bad times ahead for Ben.

I'm not sure I'd call Sayid evil. Seems to me that he's being manipulated just like everyone else, the difference being that both sides are/were playing him.

klw
03-03-2010, 08:41 PM
I'm not sure I'd call Sayid evil. Seems to me that he's being manipulated just like everyone else, the difference being that both sides are/were playing him.

Is Sayid choosing to go with "evil" or was there simply no counterbalancing "good" option? Drogan had tried to have him killed twice, who was he going to stand with there? Is Jacob actually good?

savafan
03-03-2010, 09:41 PM
I'm trying to figure out if there was any significance to the song that Claire was singing in the hole. "Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, never let it fade away". My first thought went straight to Lucifer, the "Morning Star" who fell from heaven. May be a stretch, I don't know.

redsmetz
03-03-2010, 09:56 PM
I'm trying to figure out if there was any significance to the song that Claire was singing in the hole. "Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket, never let it fade away". My first thought went straight to Lucifer, the "Morning Star" who fell from heaven. May be a stretch, I don't know.

She sang it to Aaron, as did Kate, as I recall.

savafan
03-03-2010, 10:08 PM
She sang it to Aaron, as did Kate, as I recall.

Yeah, but the writers of this show almost always seem to have a deeper meaning behind everything they put in here.

IslandRed
03-03-2010, 11:21 PM
Is Jacob actually good?

I think it's a highly subjective and relative thing. Until last season's finale, we knew Jacob primarily through the things Ben did on his behalf, and I don't think hardly anyone was thinking of him as a good and benevolent person/force/whatever. Then in the finale we finally see him, see that he's real, and he comes across as a laid-back righteous dude with a nemesis who wants him dead. All of a sudden, he's the good guy. As with most things on this show, when the writers are trying to lead our perceptions one way, it's probably not as it seems.

All I know, or think I know, is that Jacob was/is the island's protector and manipulated people to get them to the island or to do his bidding in the name of protecting the island. Ultimately, whether this makes him good, bad or in-between depends on the nature of the island itself. Same goes for the MIB.

Redsfaithful
03-04-2010, 06:02 AM
The argument that Jacob is bad could be made. Look at Jack, Locke, Claire, Dogen, and maybe Kate since she shows humanity by going back for Claire with her bag, all of them are arguably better off in the flash sideways with no island or Jacob influence.

Blimpie
03-04-2010, 08:45 AM
The argument that Jacob is bad could be made. Look at Jack, Locke, Claire, Dogen, and maybe Kate since she shows humanity by going back for Claire with her bag, all of them are arguably better off in the flash sideways with no island or Jacob influence.Are they really all better off in the flash sideways world?

While he is engaged to be married, Locke just got canned and still seems to be mired in self pity.

Claire is still a single mom who stuggles with whether or not she should keep her baby.

Kate is still pistol-whipping federal air marshals and carjacking people at LAX

Jack appears to be happier--yet, he is still separated from his wife and has little involvement with his son.

Granted, Hugo's life has changed for the better in the flash-sideways world. However, he appears to be in the minority IMO.

TeamCasey
03-04-2010, 08:55 AM
The whole thing seems to be leading up to a conflict between good and evil ........ which will probably be Jack vs. Locke.

(I always wanted Locke to be a good guy though.)

pahster
03-04-2010, 09:34 AM
Are they really all better off in the flash sideways world?

While he is engaged to be married, Locke just got canned and still seems to be mired in self pity.

Claire is still a single mom who stuggles with whether or not she should keep her baby.

Kate is still pistol-whipping federal air marshals and carjacking people at LAX

Jack appears to be happier--yet, he is still separated from his wife and has little involvement with his son.

Granted, Hugo's life has changed for the better in the flash-sideways world. However, he appears to be in the minority IMO.

Well, all those people who died are certainly better off.

durl
03-04-2010, 10:11 AM
Are they really all better off in the flash sideways world?

While he is engaged to be married, Locke just got canned and still seems to be mired in self pity.

Claire is still a single mom who stuggles with whether or not she should keep her baby.

Kate is still pistol-whipping federal air marshals and carjacking people at LAX

Jack appears to be happier--yet, he is still separated from his wife and has little involvement with his son.

Granted, Hugo's life has changed for the better in the flash-sideways world. However, he appears to be in the minority IMO.

I had something occur to me while watching this week's episode. What sparked my thinking was when Locke2.0 basically offered Sayid "whatever he wanted." Remember that Ben told Locke the same thing about the room where Locke's dad was tied up.

What if the sideways flashes are partial glimpses of some of the Losties greatest desires? I'm still struggling with the theory so bear with me.

Locke: still in a wheelchair, but he has Helen back.
Claire: she still has her baby.
Hurley: he's confident and happy, rather than feeling "cursed."
Sawyer: seemed like a good guy now.
Kate: free from the Marshall. (Sure, still a wanted fugitive...)
Jack: He got his drinking under control and is working on the relationship with his son.

My theory seems flawed with:
Sayid: doesn't have Nadia, but he's trying to redeem himself for past wrongdoings.
Jin: I don't see how being smacked around and tied up in a fridge is a "desire."

GBC Red
03-04-2010, 11:33 AM
I had something occur to me while watching this week's episode. What sparked my thinking was when Locke2.0 basically offered Sayid "whatever he wanted." Remember that Ben told Locke the same thing about the room where Locke's dad was tied up.

What if the sideways flashes are partial glimpses of some of the Losties greatest desires? I'm still struggling with the theory so bear with me.

Locke: still in a wheelchair, but he has Helen back.
Claire: she still has her baby.
Hurley: he's confident and happy, rather than feeling "cursed."
Sawyer: seemed like a good guy now.
Kate: free from the Marshall. (Sure, still a wanted fugitive...)
Jack: He got his drinking under control and is working on the relationship with his son.

My theory seems flawed with:
Sayid: doesn't have Nadia, but he's trying to redeem himself for past wrongdoings.
Jin: I don't see how being smacked around and tied up in a fridge is a "desire."

I agree Jin's situation doesn't seem ideal at all, but also there are still 10 episodes left. I do like your theory though, makes sense.

Also, I have a strange feeling also that Jacob could actually end up being the bad guy in this one.

gonelong
03-04-2010, 11:42 AM
Any theories as to why Jacob could be killed with a knife, but Locke2.0 was not?

durl
03-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Any theories as to why Jacob could be killed with a knife, but Locke2.0 was not?

My thoughts are that the "rules" apply there. And we don't know all the rules yet.

I wonder if what happened to Ben in the Temple as a boy (healed of gunshot wound) "qualified" him to kill Jacob. Sayid couldn't kill Locke2.0 because Sayid wasn't healed in the Temple.

So many things to process...


Also, I have a strange feeling also that Jacob could actually end up being the bad guy in this one.

I'm not ready to view Jacob as a bad guy just yet. Sometimes evil will gain influence by making people think that the "good" isn't really good. Bringing in a biblical analogy: the serpent in the Garden of Eden. There was a "rule" in play but the serpent convinced Eve to eat by saying that the rules didn't really matter, and that God didn't want them to eat the fruit because He knew they'd be like Him if they ate. The serpent offered "liberation" but actually brought death.

gonelong
03-04-2010, 01:13 PM
I also thought it interesting when they mentioned the machine measure the balance of good vs. evil in a person. Brought me right back to Locke2.0 removing the white stone from the scale and upsetting the balance. I wondered if that was the inside joke.

GL

Redsfaithful
03-04-2010, 01:23 PM
My theory is the flash sideways are actually the epilogue to the show and we just don't realize it yet.

Redsfaithful
03-04-2010, 01:26 PM
Are they really all better off in the flash sideways world?

While he is engaged to be married, Locke just got canned and still seems to be mired in self pity.

Claire is still a single mom who stuggles with whether or not she should keep her baby.

Kate is still pistol-whipping federal air marshals and carjacking people at LAX

Jack appears to be happier--yet, he is still separated from his wife and has little involvement with his son.

Granted, Hugo's life has changed for the better in the flash-sideways world. However, he appears to be in the minority IMO.

I think Locke has come to peace with his limitations, you look at the scene in the temp agency where he finally lets someone tell him "what he can't do".

Jack has the breakthrough moment with his son where he works through some of his own father issues and breaks the cycle.

Claire seems to have come to terms with having the baby (see her blurting out the name Aaron while almost going into labor).

It's not a perfect theory, Sayid, Jin, Kate obviously all might be going the other way, but I actually personally think it's pretty clear Jacob had a negative influence on some lives.

RiverRat13
03-04-2010, 02:11 PM
Any theories as to why Jacob could be killed with a knife, but Locke2.0 was not?

Didn't Dogen tell Sayid that he had to kill the mystery person (who turned out to be Locke) before he spoke and that if he spoke it would be too late? Sayid then tried to stab Locke after Locke said, "Hello, Sayid".

gonelong
03-04-2010, 02:30 PM
Didn't Dogen tell Sayid that he had to kill the mystery person (who turned out to be Locke) before he spoke and that if he spoke it would be too late? Sayid then tried to stab Locke after Locke said, "Hello, Sayid".'

That's right! I don't believe Jacob said anything directly to Ben before Ben killed him, though I seem to recall he said something to Locke2.0.

GL

pahster
03-04-2010, 02:47 PM
'

That's right! I don't believe Jacob said anything directly to Ben before Ben killed him, though I seem to recall he said something to Locke2.0.

GL

Jacob told Ben he had a choice.

gonelong
03-04-2010, 05:17 PM
Jacob told Ben he had a choice.

Oh Snap! I think you are right. The details in this show are just killer to keep straight.

GL

savafan
03-04-2010, 05:42 PM
Didn't Dogen tell Sayid that he had to kill the mystery person (who turned out to be Locke) before he spoke and that if he spoke it would be too late? Sayid then tried to stab Locke after Locke said, "Hello, Sayid".

Yep, a fact that Sayid conveniently left out when he returned to the temple and was talking to Dogen.

yab1112
03-04-2010, 08:51 PM
Didn't Dogen tell Sayid that he had to kill the mystery person (who turned out to be Locke) before he spoke and that if he spoke it would be too late? Sayid then tried to stab Locke after Locke said, "Hello, Sayid".

I think Dogen knew that Sayid wouldn't be able to kill Locke with or without the knife. He was trying to get Sayid killed just like with the poison pill.

Dogen telling Sayid to stab him before he spoke was more to prevent Locke from manipulating Sayid, which is what ultimately happened.

redsmetz
03-04-2010, 09:12 PM
OK, I just noticed the tenor of the ads in this thread; all about Background Checks, Criminal Records, PI's. Too funny. Now I'm going to have to go check the pregnant girlfriend thread to see what that has.

klw
03-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Jin: I don't see how being smacked around and tied up in a fridge is a "desire."

Ask Marv Albert.

RiverRat13
03-05-2010, 09:44 AM
Ask Marv Albert.

Hiyooooooo!!!!

redsmetz
03-10-2010, 10:49 AM
So any thoughts on last night's episode? We learn that Richard has not aged because Jacob gave him "a gift" when he touched him. Of course, what does this mean for all of the other folks who he has touched. He also said he can't kill himself, but Jack and Hurley could. Jack stayed after lighting the dynamite fuse and basically said it wouldn't go off. It was the old Jack back, I think.

We also were reminded that the lady who has been running things after Jacob was killed (can't remember her name) was saved by Jacob and she considers him "as close as a father" as you can get. Interestingly, with Ben having the draw on her (thanks to fake Locke telling him where a gun was), she tells Ben that she'll have him after he said that fake Locke was the only one who would have him and that's why he was going to follow him. Struck me as a bit of a redemptive moment, although we really don't know who are the "good buys" and who are the "bad guys".

Except, of course, we now know the one who is coming to the island who is very dangerous is Widmore.

savafan
03-10-2010, 01:32 PM
[QUOTE=redsmetz;2034487]It was the old Jack back, I think.

QUOTE]

Actually, I thought it was a new Jack. For the first time, we've seen him trust fate.

yab1112
03-10-2010, 01:44 PM
So any thoughts on last night's episode? We learn that Richard has not aged because Jacob gave him "a gift" when he touched him.

I was reminded of a few seasons ago when Micheal got off the island and tried to kill himself a few times but couldn't.

The scene where they all reunite on the beach with Ben kind of hanging in the back round is a parallel to a similar scene in season 1 I believe. I can't remember who was part of it then so I'm going to have to go back and try and find it.

Also, Ilana says there are six candidates left.
1. Jack
2. Hurley
3. Jin/Sun
4. Sayid
5. Sawyer
6. ??

We were also shown Locke's name on the cave wall but Ilana knows he's dead. Who could she have been refering to as the sixth candidate? Am I missing something?

LoganBuck
03-10-2010, 01:50 PM
I was reminded of a few seasons ago when Micheal got off the island and tried to kill himself a few times but couldn't.

The scene where they all reunite on the beach with Ben kind of hanging in the back round is a parallel to a similar scene in season 1 I believe. I can't remember who was part of it then so I'm going to have to go back and try and find it.

Also, Ilana says there are six candidates left.
1. Jack
2. Hurley
3. Jin/Sun
4. Sayid
5. Sawyer
6. ??

We were also shown Locke's name on the cave wall but Ilana knows he's dead. Who could she have been refering to as the sixth candidate? Am I missing something?

Claire and Kate are the obvious choices here.

BuckeyeRed27
03-10-2010, 01:56 PM
I was reminded of a few seasons ago when Micheal got off the island and tried to kill himself a few times but couldn't.

The scene where they all reunite on the beach with Ben kind of hanging in the back round is a parallel to a similar scene in season 1 I believe. I can't remember who was part of it then so I'm going to have to go back and try and find it.

Also, Ilana says there are six candidates left.
1. Jack
2. Hurley
3. Jin/Sun
4. Sayid
5. Sawyer
6. ??

We were also shown Locke's name on the cave wall but Ilana knows he's dead. Who could she have been refering to as the sixth candidate? Am I missing something?


It could possibly be Lapidus or she could be counting Kwon twice since she doesn't know if it is one or both of them.

I loved last nights episode. I think it is interesting that Richard maybe doesn't know everything. He obviously knows a lot from experience, but still is in the dark about Jacob's motives.

Ben-centric episodes are always great and his "moment" at the end was one of the best in the series IMO. Can't wait to see how this plays out with Widmore coming back.

savafan
03-10-2010, 02:10 PM
I think we learned that Richard came to the island on The Black Rock.

top6
03-10-2010, 02:17 PM
Actually, I thought it was a new Jack. For the first time, we've seen him trust fate.

Except for that one time he decided to detonate a thermonuclear bomb, of course.

savafan
03-10-2010, 02:18 PM
[QUOTE=savafan;2034555]

Except for that one time he decided to detonate a thermonuclear bomb, of course.

Well, yeah, I mean, if you REALLY want to count that. I don't. :p:

LoganBuck
03-10-2010, 02:35 PM
It could possibly be Lapidus or she could be counting Kwon twice since she doesn't know if it is one or both of them.

I loved last nights episode. I think it is interesting that Richard maybe doesn't know everything. He obviously knows a lot from experience, but still is in the dark about Jacob's motives.

Ben-centric episodes are always great and his "moment" at the end was one of the best in the series IMO. Can't wait to see how this plays out with Widmore coming back.

I liked how Ben chose Alex over his power and desire to be principal. Total reversal of how things went on the island.

Yachtzee
03-10-2010, 05:11 PM
I was reminded of a few seasons ago when Micheal got off the island and tried to kill himself a few times but couldn't.

The scene where they all reunite on the beach with Ben kind of hanging in the back round is a parallel to a similar scene in season 1 I believe. I can't remember who was part of it then so I'm going to have to go back and try and find it.

Also, Ilana says there are six candidates left.
1. Jack
2. Hurley
3. Jin/Sun
4. Sayid
5. Sawyer
6. ??

We were also shown Locke's name on the cave wall but Ilana knows he's dead. Who could she have been refering to as the sixth candidate? Am I missing something?

She could be counting Sun and Jin separately or has Kate in the equation. I've heard that Kate was crossed off the list in the cave, but still on the list in the lighthouse. I wonder if the discrepancies on the lists might be because the lighthouse has the candidates as identified by Jacob and the cave represents the list of candidates known to the Man in Black, who could have been mistaken in crossing someone off the list too soon.

The last candidate could also be someone coming to the island. Maybe not Charles Widmore, but a surprise person on his sub.

MWM
03-10-2010, 06:38 PM
The entire transformation of the Ben Linus character has been fascinating and genius. Michael Emerson has been brilliant playing it and the writers brilliant in writing. And on the same episode, Jack has completed his transformation in the opposite direction.

All along, Ben was so loyal to the island at the expense of doing what he thought was right. Now he hates what it did to him and wants to make recompense for what he's done. All along, Jack has hated the island, never believed in it and wanted to get off. Now he's fully embraced the power of the island and that he's there for a reason.

The contrasting transformations between these two has been fascinating to watch.

reds1869
03-10-2010, 06:48 PM
Great episode last night. I agree that Ben-centric episodes are always great. He is a wonderful character.

Blimpie
03-10-2010, 08:26 PM
Claire and Kate are the obvious choices here.Of the two, Kate was the one who was 'touched' by Jacob (after she was caught shoplifting).

LoganBuck
03-10-2010, 10:34 PM
Of the two, Kate was the one who was 'touched' by Jacob (after she was caught shoplifting).

Don't forget the deal about Jack's sister being claimed, like Sayid has been.

The Cowboy
03-11-2010, 01:51 AM
I think I have come to the conclusion that Kate is the 6th candidate based on the fact that during the 2nd season finale she was one of the 6 chosen by the Others

savafan
03-12-2010, 04:18 PM
I think I have come to the conclusion that Kate is the 6th candidate based on the fact that during the 2nd season finale she was one of the 6 chosen by the Others

Yes, but Kate is #51 on the lighthouse, which doesn't fit into the "numbers" we've heard for years. There has to be some significance for her being left out.

HeatherC1212
03-17-2010, 12:19 AM
Tonight's episode was pretty good (I always love an episode with Shirtless Sawyer, LOL :p: ) but the biggest news was in the previews....

RICHARD BACKSTORY EPISODE NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!! :jump:

TeamCasey
03-17-2010, 08:47 AM
I've always thought this was purgatory for these characters.

reds1869
03-17-2010, 08:50 AM
Wonderful episode, but next week will be spectacular!

Homer Bailey
03-17-2010, 11:18 AM
I've always thought this was purgatory for these characters.

Been dismissed by the writers.

BuckeyeRed27
03-17-2010, 12:51 PM
Been dismissed by the writers.

Yeah that is definately not it.

The Richard story next week is going to be amazing.

This episode was a solid B. Seemed like more of a set up episode which is fine.

Redsfaithful
03-17-2010, 06:53 PM
So psyched for Richard next week.

RiverRat13
03-18-2010, 02:34 PM
So psyched for Richard next week.

Ditto!

M2
03-19-2010, 03:16 PM
Does anybody else wish Jack and Sawyer would drop Kate like a bad habit? I get the initial fascination, but you'd think both would have figured out the chase was better than the catch.

klw
03-19-2010, 03:32 PM
Does anybody else wish Jack and Sawyer would drop Kate like a bad habit? I get the initial fascination, but you'd think both would have figured out the chase was better than the catch.

They are stranded on a island- who else are they looking at other than Hurlley? It seems like Sawyer has dropped Kate at this point despite his discussion with her about getting off the island together. He trusts her but seems fixated on Juliet still. (Only been a few days since she died after all.)

M2
03-19-2010, 08:12 PM
They are stranded on a island- who else are they looking at other than Hurlley? It seems like Sawyer has dropped Kate at this point despite his discussion with her about getting off the island together. He trusts her but seems fixated on Juliet still. (Only been a few days since she died after all.)

I'm not sure what he's fixated on. Technically his top allegiances should be to Jin and Miles. He spent years with them. I'd think they're the ones he'd be trying to get off the island. And maybe he is, but the plot lingers on him and Kate when he ought to be as over her as over can get.

HeatherC1212
03-23-2010, 05:42 PM
I am SOOOOOOO excited for tonight's episode!!! :jump:

Sorry, just had to get that out there and to bump up this thread for later, LOL :laugh:

kbrake
03-23-2010, 06:40 PM
Tonight is going to be AMAZING. Can't get here quick enough.

savafan
03-23-2010, 06:55 PM
We get to learn the secrets of Richard Alpert! Maybe it's Maybelline? ;)

Joseph
03-23-2010, 07:01 PM
I've never been overly impressed with Richard, however I expect tonigh will bring some answers/direction on a few things so it should be a good episode.

reds1869
03-23-2010, 11:23 PM
That was a very good episode and sets up the ending of the series nicely. It was the first episode in a while that sent my head spinning with questions, which I always love. It also gave some pretty good answers and back story.

Redsfaithful
03-24-2010, 03:27 AM
Great episode. Still seven episodes and we still have to find out what the flash sideways are all about, but I've been pretty happy with things so far. The whole Black Rock sequence was extremely well done I thought.

Always nice to get a bunch of questions answered in an episode that's also very entertaining at the same time, the two things aren't always linked.

durl
03-24-2010, 10:36 AM
GREAT episode! I actually expected Richard to be much older than he was.

We knew that Magnus Hanso's descendant started the Dharma Initiative, but I wonder if we're about to see more of the tie-in between Hanso, Dharma, and the Island.

And what about Hurley?? The dude's becoming very strong and confident.

Interesting that Jacob took the rough approach with Richard. Jacob has always come across as rather meek but he gave it straight and hard to Ricardo.

And Smokey spared Richard like he spared Locke. We've seen the hovering and flashing before, when Eko was apparently being "judged," but Eko ended up dead later. Who else saw Smokey and the flashes before and lived? It seems like it was Kate and someone else while hiding in the roots of a tree.

yab1112
03-24-2010, 03:13 PM
Who else saw Smokey and the flashes before and lived? It seems like it was Kate and someone else while hiding in the roots of a tree.

Ben last season in the underground tunnels outside the temple.

HumnHilghtFreel
03-24-2010, 03:58 PM
This was the first episode of the season that I actually really thought was good. In fact I thought it was probably in the top 3 as far as Lost episodes go. Hopefully it can stay this way to close out the series

Redsfaithful
03-24-2010, 04:23 PM
I wonder if the smoke killed Eko because he wasn't repentant for the murders he had done?

(I know the actor didn't want to live in Hawaii, but storywise.)

Homer Bailey
03-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Been thinking about the wine-cork-bottle analogy.

In the alternate reality (I'm not willing to call it a flash sideways yet), we see the island under water, meaning the cork is off the bottle, meaning the wine (Man in Black), can roam free.

I think we're about to see things get crazy in the AR.

BuckeyeRed27
03-24-2010, 10:45 PM
Been thinking about the wine-cork-bottle analogy.

In the alternate reality (I'm not willing to call it a flash sideways yet), we see the island under water, meaning the cork is off the bottle, meaning the wine (Man in Black), can roam free.

I think we're about to see things get crazy in the AR.

Or maybe sinking the island is the only way to kill MiB?

redsmetz
03-24-2010, 11:22 PM
Or maybe sinking the island is the only way to kill MiB?

I think that would eliminate significant potential drama. I suspect he's able to roam free somehow and is going to wreak havoc until they all learn they've got to unite with the other reality. Don't know how, but I suspect that's the direction it's heading.

durl
03-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Ben last season in the underground tunnels outside the temple.

Found what I was thinking about on Lostpedia.


The next day, Kate and Juliet were handcuffed together in the jungle. They begin physically fighting each other and just after Kate injured Juliet, they heard the Man in Black in his Monster form. They stopped fighting and ran, as the Monster began chasing them. Juliet pretended not to know anything about the Monster and the two hid from it in the roots of a banyan tree. While they were behind the roots, the Monster looked upon them and emitted a series of intensely bright flashes of light directed towards the two women, then retreated and left them alone. ("Left Behind")

Yachtzee
03-25-2010, 04:18 PM
Well, we know MiB/Smoke Monster doesn't like sonic fences, so I'm waiting for the plot twist where we find out that Charlie really didn't die, but escaped the island and got his Driveshaft mates together to kill MiB by blasting him with a live version of "You All Everybody." :)

savafan
03-25-2010, 05:43 PM
I think we learned that Richard came to the island on The Black Rock.

I want a point for this! :)

Redsfaithful
03-25-2010, 08:08 PM
Been thinking about the wine-cork-bottle analogy.

In the alternate reality (I'm not willing to call it a flash sideways yet), we see the island under water, meaning the cork is off the bottle, meaning the wine (Man in Black), can roam free.

I think we're about to see things get crazy in the AR.

I like this idea, really good point.

marcshoe
03-25-2010, 09:48 PM
I'm curious about the MiB's crazy mother, as mentioned last week. My first thought was Lilith.

'course I haven't been right about anything yet.

TheBigLebowski
03-26-2010, 10:48 AM
Here's one of my theories.....chew on it for a while and then I'll put some meat on the bones...

"Fake" Locke is actually John Locke. Discuss.

FWIW, the Richard Alpert episode was one of my faves ever - definitely top 5.

BoxingRed
03-26-2010, 01:10 PM
I'm curious about the MiB's crazy mother, as mentioned last week. My first thought was Lilith.

'course I haven't been right about anything yet.

A friend explained to me how the whole Jacob/MIB thing is directly related to Egyptian mythology. They represent 2 gods that had the same mother and so forth. I need him to explain it to me again because it made perfect sense.

savafan
03-26-2010, 01:13 PM
Here's one of my theories.....chew on it for a while and then I'll put some meat on the bones...

"Fake" Locke is actually John Locke. Discuss.



The philosopher?

durl
03-26-2010, 01:23 PM
Here's one of my theories.....chew on it for a while and then I'll put some meat on the bones...

"Fake" Locke is actually John Locke. Discuss.

Funny...I actually had that thought yesterday. (I haven't chewed on it that much, however.) Consider some things:

- He was born premature and survived many illnesses, deemed miraculous by nurses.
- As a child, he scribbled a "smoke monster" attacking someone.
- At 16, he was told that he was "special."
- His mother told him that he didn't have a father. (And MIB said that he had a "crazy" mother.)
- He's lied to the Losties on many occasions, making them wonder if they can trust him.

Early on in the series, I wondered if Locke was born on the Island. Perhaps he has had a connection to "MIB" for a long time.

BuckeyeRed27
03-26-2010, 02:42 PM
A friend explained to me how the whole Jacob/MIB thing is directly related to Egyptian mythology. They represent 2 gods that had the same mother and so forth. I need him to explain it to me again because it made perfect sense.

There is an amazing thread in the Lostpedia main forum about this. It is a mind blowing read if you want to waste about 5 hours of your life, but I think it is spot on. And if it's not it should be.

TheBigLebowski
03-26-2010, 05:13 PM
The philosopher?

No, sorry - the character.

marcshoe
03-26-2010, 05:14 PM
There is an amazing thread in the Lostpedia main forum about this. It is a mind blowing read if you want to waste about 5 hours of your life, but I think it is spot on. And if it's not it should be.

Don't have time to visit the site now, but assuming this is Osiris and Set, I've thought of it but could never make it work. Later this evening I'll check it out.

Blimpie
03-26-2010, 05:52 PM
Been thinking about the wine-cork-bottle analogy.

In the alternate reality (I'm not willing to call it a flash sideways yet), we see the island under water, meaning the cork is off the bottle, meaning the wine (Man in Black), can roam free.I was kinda thinking the exact opposite thing:

In the flash-sideways scene, the island was underwater because the cork had been placed back into the wine bottle; thereby, assuring that the 'evil' would be kept on the island.

HeatherC1212
03-30-2010, 11:13 PM
DESMOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

That's all I've got after watching tonight's episode although I really enjoyed the whole thing (even without the Jin/Sun reunion that I REALLY want to see before this daggone show ends). :)

Redsfaithful
03-31-2010, 12:44 AM
Was thinking about this last night, and I'm honestly satisfied after the Richard Alpert story. I'm not saying I'm not glad there are six episodes left and that there will be more resolution, just that it really can't be ruined for me at this point with a weak ending.

Decent episode this week, although I thought the flash sideways kind of dragged, but it seemed like one of those you have to have to get to the more interesting stuff (Desmond).

Yachtzee
03-31-2010, 12:46 AM
I had a feeling Desmond would be a key figure who would feature in the end resolution of this show. It was interesting to actually see Widmore officially state that his purpose was to keep Fake Locke on the island. Based on his past actions, I still have had doubts in my mind about his real reason for getting back to the island. But the way he described the consequences of Fake Locke getting off the island makes me wonder even more what his true nature might be.

reds1869
03-31-2010, 02:56 PM
DESMOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

That's all I've got after watching tonight's episode although I really enjoyed the whole thing (even without the Jin/Sun reunion that I REALLY want to see before this daggone show ends). :)

Yes, yes, yes! My wife and I both reacted like the Reds had just won the World Series when Sayid and Desmond locked eyes. I can't wait to se how this all plays out.

LoganBuck
03-31-2010, 03:47 PM
Remember when Sun and Widmore met off the island, on the street? They never really discussed what went on there. I wonder if this is some sort of off shoot of that story line.

Blimpie
03-31-2010, 03:49 PM
Here's a theory about our favorite Scotsman:

After learning about his time-traveling skills, perhaps, Whidmore felt that Desmond was only person who had the ability to consolidate the two alternate realities (current island time + flash sideways world).

If you will allow for the possibility, then it might explain why Desmond mysteriously disappeared from the Ajira flight when they returned to the island.

forfreelin04
03-31-2010, 03:53 PM
Hey all,

Thanks for keeping this thread going. I read over it after every episode! Haven't watched the latest yet so I haven't read the last four or so posts.

I thought you might enjoy this article from USA Today, it explains the comparisons between the Bible and Lost.

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20100330/lostbible30_tb.art.htm

If this violates board rules (religious aspect), please remove and I apologize!

redsmetz
03-31-2010, 05:14 PM
Here's a theory about our favorite Scotsman:

After learning about his time-traveling skills, perhaps, Whidmore felt that Desmond was only person who had the ability to consolidate the two alternate realities (current island time + flash sideways world).

If you will allow for the possibility, then it might explain why Desmond mysteriously disappeared from the Ajira flight when they returned to the island.

You may well be right. BTW, Desmond wasn't on the Ajira flight (the one flown by Frank on the return to the island), but he was briefly shown on the Oceanic sideways flight talking to Jack. What you posit gives some food for thought.

Blimpie
03-31-2010, 05:34 PM
You may well be right. BTW, Desmond wasn't on the Ajira flight (the one flown by Frank on the return to the island), but he was briefly shown on the Oceanic sideways flight talking to Jack. What you posit gives some food for thought.Thaaaat's right... It's hard to keep up with all of these flights/universes..eses.

;)

Tony Cloninger
04-01-2010, 12:50 AM
Can someone tell ABC that I KNOW V is on next...and I do not need a countdown in the middle of my show? Good grief these people are ridiculous with the way they promote their shows.

savafan
04-01-2010, 01:00 AM
Remember what Daniel Faraday wrote in his notebook: "Desmond Hume is my constant."

IslandRed
04-01-2010, 03:33 PM
It was interesting to actually see Widmore officially state that his purpose was to keep Fake Locke on the island. Based on his past actions, I still have had doubts in my mind about his real reason for getting back to the island. But the way he described the consequences of Fake Locke getting off the island makes me wonder even more what his true nature might be.

That's what I was thinking, too. I'm probably mis-remembering some backstory, but something's not adding up, given (1) that Widmore seems to be carrying Jacob's water at the moment, possibly even at his bidding, measured against (1) the adversarial relationship between Ben and Widmore when it was Ben's job to carry Jacob's water.

If it's true about the need to keep Locke/MIB on the island, then obviously it would be in Widmore's interests to help make that happen. But since they wanted Jin to pinpoint the locations of the island's hot spots, so to speak, I'm guessing Widmore still has his own fish to fry once the world has been saved.

Redsfaithful
04-01-2010, 06:31 PM
Can someone tell ABC that I KNOW V is on next...and I do not need a countdown in the middle of my show? Good grief these people are ridiculous with the way they promote their shows.

This was actually obscuring the plot when it covered up Sun's handwritten note at one point. Pretty ridiculous.

RiverRat13
04-05-2010, 11:28 AM
Pretty interesting about the V Countdown, guys:

http://forum.lostpedia.com/think-des-hit-deck-1-t53384.html

durl
04-05-2010, 01:35 PM
I've actually wondered if Desmond were actually "Wallace" at 108 degrees. I wasn't sure of his nationality, but after verifying that he was part of the Royal Scots Regiment, it's reasonable that he could be Wallace.

Still, Desmond seems to be a figure that seems to be beyond the whole "candidate" thing. I mean, he visited Jack in L.A. before the Oceanic 815 crash so his intervention in the lives of the "candidates" seems to have taken place well before the original crash.

top6
04-06-2010, 05:38 PM
Remember what Daniel Faraday wrote in his notebook: "Desmond Hume is my constant."

But remember he actually wrote: "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume is my constant."

Remember also that Jack's whole plan to blow up an atomic bomb came from Faraday's diary. So I think a key question is whether the plan went as Farady intended. Meaning, did he intend to create an alternate timeline? And if he did not, and it went wrong, is Desmond some sort of constant between the two timelines.

I predict that Desmond is the key to reconciling the two timelines, although how and why and what exactly that means I am not nearly smart enough to say.

HeatherC1212
04-06-2010, 11:45 PM
LOVED LOVED LOVED the episode tonight! I thought it was phenomenal and I'm glad we're starting to see more clues and answers. :D

reds1869
04-07-2010, 12:15 AM
Great stuff tonight! The interactions between all of the characters was spectacular. It make same ask just how much Daniel's mother knows in the "flash sideways" universe.

LoganBuck
04-07-2010, 01:04 AM
I think Channel 22 out of Dayton had some glitches with the sound. What did Desmond say to Widmore after the electromagnetic procedure?

durl
04-07-2010, 01:30 AM
I think Channel 22 out of Dayton had some glitches with the sound. What did Desmond say to Widmore after the electromagnetic procedure?

Can't recall word-for-word, but he essentially told Widmore that he was ready to do the job Widmore had for him.

durl
04-07-2010, 01:42 AM
I had something occur to me while watching this week's episode. What sparked my thinking was when Locke2.0 basically offered Sayid "whatever he wanted." Remember that Ben told Locke the same thing about the room where Locke's dad was tied up.

What if the sideways flashes are partial glimpses of some of the Losties greatest desires? I'm still struggling with the theory so bear with me.

Locke: still in a wheelchair, but he has Helen back.
Claire: she still has her baby.
Hurley: he's confident and happy, rather than feeling "cursed."
Sawyer: seemed like a good guy now.
Kate: free from the Marshall. (Sure, still a wanted fugitive...)
Jack: He got his drinking under control and is working on the relationship with his son.

My theory seems flawed with:
Sayid: doesn't have Nadia, but he's trying to redeem himself for past wrongdoings.
Jin: I don't see how being smacked around and tied up in a fridge is a "desire."

OK, time to update my theory. Tonight's episode seems to fit pretty well.

Faraday - He wanted to pursue music as a child, and his flash-sideways shows him living his dream.
Desmond - (according to Eloise) finally has Widmore's approval.

I think it's cool that we're starting to see, via Desmond, that the flash-sideways are connected to the Island. What is very interesting is that in those flash-sideways, the ones who recognize that there was "another" reality are the ones who died on the Island: Charlie and Faraday.

I can't figure out why Eloise seems to know what's going on and is trying to guide Desmond yet again.

Great episode! Desmond is definitely a game-changer. I'm curious to see how he handles Locke 2.0 and Evil-Sayid.

MWM
04-07-2010, 02:33 AM
I'm really enjoying the ride, but I don't see how they can possibly resolve this entire thing in 5 more episodes.

TeamCasey
04-07-2010, 08:13 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

reds1869
04-07-2010, 08:17 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

I love the types of connections involved with character names. There are too many to list and they are obviously connected to the character's traits in multiple ways. Man, I'm going to rewatch the entire series after the finale.

Blimpie
04-07-2010, 08:21 AM
So, it appears that the L.A. Hospital is the nexus of the flash sideways universe. All of them have rubbed elbows there one way or another (Jack, Kate, Claire, Sayid, Charlie, Desmond). Now that Sun has a slug in her gut, one can only guess where Jin might be speeding at this moment...

Locke 2.0 has been trying to get everyone together on the island so that he can launch his plan. Perhaps, before Desmond can reconcile the two parallel universes, they will all be together at the hospital?

durl
04-07-2010, 10:08 AM
So, it appears that the L.A. Hospital is the nexus of the flash sideways universe. All of them have rubbed elbows there one way or another (Jack, Kate, Claire, Sayid, Charlie, Desmond). Now that Sun has a slug in her gut, one can only guess where Jin might be speeding at this moment...

Locke 2.0 has been trying to get everyone together on the island so that he can launch his plan. Perhaps, before Desmond can reconcile the two parallel universes, they will all be together at the hospital?

I really like your thinking on this. It does appear that Desmond plans on gathering the candidates in the Sideways the same way that Locke 2.0 is on the Island.

redsmetz
04-07-2010, 10:26 AM
I really like your thinking on this. It does appear that Desmond plans on gathering the candidates in the Sideways the same way that Locke 2.0 is on the Island.

And Desmond on the island, after saying to Widmore "when do we begin?", agreed immediately to go with Sayid without any questions. And Desmond in both situations at this point, seems very clear about what he needs to do.

Someone mentioned that the folks who are dead back on the island seem to have a clearer idea of the other world (thus far Charlie & Daniel). It will be interesting to see if Sideways Boone comes around and has the same sort of knowledge. I did see Michael in the preview for next week, but he was on the island addressing Hurley.

I think the final episodes are going to fly along like this one did. They're hurling us towards the conclusion and it's fairly exciting at this point. Or maybe I just need to get a life... :)

RiverRat13
04-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Amazing episode. By far the best of Season 6, IMO. Now we are getting somewhere.

HeatherC1212
04-07-2010, 12:50 PM
I'm really enjoying the ride, but I don't see how they can possibly resolve this entire thing in 5 more episodes.

Actually, there's only five more REGULAR episodes left but there's still the two hour series finale so technically they have seven more hours left to resolve things which is a little bit better. I agree that the last few episodes are going to fly by like this one did last night. :thumbup:

marcshoe
04-07-2010, 10:33 PM
This is gearing up to be better than I had any hope of it being. I'm astonished that this kind of thing can still be done on network TV.

yab1112
04-10-2010, 11:28 AM
Amazing episode. By far the best of Season 6, IMO. Now we are getting somewhere.

Dare I say the best ever?? Na, probably not but it's the best one of the past few seasons. In a season full of answers, they finally gave us some more questions. Prior to this episode, the season felt a bit anticlimactic, now the "what in gods name are they going to do next?!" feeling is back. :thumbup:

Joseph
04-10-2010, 11:45 AM
I must be a bit daft, I'm still not seeing any answers. I enjoy whats going on, but I don't see anything being resolved or answered yet.

yab1112
04-10-2010, 11:55 AM
I must be a bit daft, I'm still not seeing any answers. I enjoy whats going on, but I don't see anything being resolved or answered yet.

I guess I was thinking of things like revealing Richard's backstory, the discussion between Jacob and Richard about the cork in the bottle, or how the purpose in Jacob's interest in their lives is because they're candidates to replace him.

I agree there's still many more questions to be answered, but they've begun filling in some of the gaps.