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View Full Version : Taveras and Rosales traded to Oakland for Aaron Miles and PTBNL/Cash



GIDP
02-01-2010, 12:29 PM
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/statuses/8506178247

Reds and Oakland completed trade of Aaron Miles and PTBNL or cash for Willy Taveras and Adam Rosales... More on our site momentarily.

I always like Rosales because I think his bat is better than what we saw at the major league level, but we have tons of players to replace him with in the minors.

Interesting that Billy Beane would take Willy Taveras. I cant imagine what type of terrible play hes going to put out in oakland. Maybe he will hit gaps and maybe get a few extra doubles even though hes never really hit for any type of double power.

GIDP
02-01-2010, 12:31 PM
Aaron Miles is making 1.7 million this year not 2.7 because the Cubs were paying 1 million of 2010s salary.

For as much as we all hated Willy Aaron Miles has been much much worse in recent time.

mdccclxix
02-01-2010, 12:37 PM
Is this too good to be true????

WildcatFan
02-01-2010, 12:38 PM
So essentially, we traded Taveras and Rosales for Cabrera, Miles and PTBNL with no increase in payroll? Walt is putting together some kind of offseason. Come on Gomes...

Griffey012
02-01-2010, 12:39 PM
Ahhh this offseason just keeps getting better!

Grounds_Crew
02-01-2010, 12:39 PM
Hmmmm....I like the sound of this! Sounds like Jocketty is securing some Major League READY infield depth.

WildcatFan
02-01-2010, 12:39 PM
For as much as we all hated Willy Aaron Miles has been much much worse in recent time.

The difference is Miles doesn't have a place to play on this team and can't get 400 at-bats

stripedwarrior
02-01-2010, 12:40 PM
Aaron Miles is making 1.7 million this year not 2.7 because the Cubs were paying 1 million of 2010s salary.

The details haven't been made public yet, but I would doubt that the $1 mil that the Cubs sent over necessarily follows Miles to the Reds.

I can see the Reds getting $1.3 mil in salary relief, but not $2.7 mil.

Now this begs the question; Is this salary relief going to go towards another FA (Damon:pray:), or towards OC's contract?

Grounds_Crew
02-01-2010, 12:41 PM
So essentially, we traded Taveras and Rosales for Cabrera, Miles and PTBNL with no increase in payroll? Walt is putting together some kind of offseason. Come on Gomes...



Quoted for troof!

CySeymour
02-01-2010, 12:44 PM
The difference is Miles doesn't have a place to play on this team and can't get 400 at-bats

This....there isn't the illusion that he is coming in as a starter.

GIDP
02-01-2010, 12:44 PM
The difference is Miles doesn't have a place to play on this team and can't get 400 at-bats

Taveras really didnt either.

GIDP
02-01-2010, 12:45 PM
The details haven't been made public yet, but I would doubt that the $1 mil that the Cubs sent over necessarily follows Miles to the Reds.

I can see the Reds getting $1.3 mil in salary relief, but not $2.7 mil.

Now this begs the question; Is this salary relief going to go towards another FA (Damon:pray:), or towards OC's contract?

The money was supposed to be for Miles 2010 salary.

Mr Larkin
02-01-2010, 12:46 PM
Miles is a suitable infield back-up. We don't have whipping boy Tavares anymore. Rosales may be in a better situation for him. All of this sounds good to me.

Grounds_Crew
02-01-2010, 12:48 PM
Miles is a suitable infield back-up. We don't have whipping boy Tavares anymore. Rosales may be in a better situation for him. All of this sounds good to me.


Wow, first post!

yab1112
02-01-2010, 12:49 PM
Great great news. This off season just keeps getting better.


We don't have whipping boy Tavares anymore.

We need to have an emergency meeting to decide who will take his place. There's not much time until ST so we need to make a decision fast. ;)

WildcatFan
02-01-2010, 12:49 PM
Taveras really didnt either.

There was no guarantee that Dusty would start Stubbs in CF; I could definitely have seen him going with Taveras "until Stubbs got his feet wet." Or if one of the other outfielders started slumping, toss Taveras in for a while to lead off.

With Miles, there is literally no place to play him.

Anyway, I'll shut up now about the past and bask in this move

GIDP
02-01-2010, 12:56 PM
There was no guarantee that Dusty would start Stubbs in CF; I could definitely have seen him going with Taveras "until Stubbs got his feet wet." Or if one of the other outfielders started slumping, toss Taveras in for a while to lead off.

With Miles, there is literally no place to play him.

Anyway, I'll shut up now about the past and bask in this move

I really doubted Willy was going to get much playing time. All offseason they seemed to be pushing him off. Listed as 3rd or 4th on the depth charts at functions and things.

yab1112
02-01-2010, 12:56 PM
Now this begs the question; Is this salary relief going to go towards another FA (Damon:pray:), or towards OC's contract?


AOL FanHouse's Ed Price tweets that there's "zero chance" this trade opens a spot for Johnny Damon on the Reds.

stripedwarrior
02-01-2010, 12:58 PM
The details haven't been made public yet, but I would doubt that the $1 mil that the Cubs sent over necessarily follows Miles to the Reds.

I can see the Reds getting $1.3 mil in salary relief, but not $2.7 mil.

Now this begs the question; Is this salary relief going to go towards another FA (Damon:pray:), or towards OC's contract?


The money was supposed to be for Miles 2010 salary.

But I am not sure if the $$ has to follow him or not. I'm thinking that the A's can keep that $1 mil. We would then just get a savings of $1.3 million.

Farnsie
02-01-2010, 12:58 PM
This has the potential to be one of my best days in quite some time...

mattfeet
02-01-2010, 12:58 PM
Wow, first post!


What up d00d! ;) :beerme:

GIDP
02-01-2010, 12:59 PM
Apparently the trade is a PTBNL not cash. Travis Buck?

stripedwarrior
02-01-2010, 01:01 PM
from OBM on ORG:

From Morosi:

So, the #Reds will pay Miles his full $2.7M salary in 2010. #MLB

http://twitter.com/jonmorosi

So we are paying all of Miles salary.

GIDP
02-01-2010, 01:01 PM
But I am not sure if the $$ has to follow him or not. I'm thinking that the A's can keep that $1 mil. We would then just get a savings of $1.3 million.

The money isnt following according to http://twitter.com/jonmorosi

mroby85
02-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Aaron Miles has been a solid .280-.290 guy up until last year, does anyone know what his situation was? He could be a very solid bat off the bench if he returns to that form, and a very nice return for what they traded...

Chris Sabowned
02-01-2010, 01:15 PM
I realize that Miles had a horrendous season last year, but I still think he'll be an upgrade over Drew Sutton or Adam Rosales. I don't think Sutton is ready yet and I was never really impressed with Adam Rosales.

GIDP
02-01-2010, 01:24 PM
Miles certainly can be a better player than Taveras and provide some worth. Its just a matter of him being able to hit for a .290 average again. That being said Miles still really isnt all that good and I wouldnt doubt if Taveras plays better next season.

roby
02-01-2010, 01:36 PM
Aaron Miles has been a solid .280-.290 guy up until last year, does anyone know what his situation was? He could be a very solid bat off the bench if he returns to that form, and a very nice return for what they traded...

I think he had some kind of a shoulder injury that kept him out of the lineup.

mattfeet
02-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Taveras has already been DFA'd by Oakland. LOL

-Matt

WildcatFan
02-01-2010, 01:42 PM
What in the world is Oakland doing? Did they want to get Rosales/get rid of Miles that badly?

GIDP
02-01-2010, 01:43 PM
What in the world is Oakland doing? Did they want to get Rosales/get rid of Miles that badly?

they get 6 years of Rosales and can send him to AAA. Pretty much the same thing we did when we traded Keppinger for Sutton.

Newman4
02-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Aaron Miles had a nice year in 2008. OPS .753. Looks like a nice backup guy with around .290 average and .350 OBP. No power, but I'm satisfied just to get rid of Willy T. Any word on the PTBNL?

TheBigLebowski
02-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Truly a sad day for Bakermetricians everywhere.

How can you basically just give away that kind of speed? Does Jocketty not realize how freaking fast Tavares is? And Rosales - fastest guy to first after a walk.

I could beat Aaron Miles in a footrace.

We gave up two really fast guys for a really slow one. I don't get it, folks.

Red in Atl
02-01-2010, 01:58 PM
Why are folks so worried about losing Rosales? On ORG one guy was actually bummed about the trade. Are people that attached to their first impression? Wake up.

Trading Taveras is the one thing I thought would never happen. So 3 Cheers to Walt for making that reality. All it cost was Adam, sprint to first base on a walk, yeah just like Pete; but usually it's foul ball off to right, then strike out, not just like Pete.

Halle-freakin-lujah!

Walt is god. And for a cheaper guy who he knows well. Miles had some good years with the Cards and should be a nice veteran bench guy.

You know everyone who was crying and moaning in December must feel pretty foolish now. What did you want? Another overpaid underachiever (Willy T) just so you could have a signing before the holidays? That's what we got last year. Patience people.

They sign Gomes to play left and you have got to give Walt at least a B+ on this offseason!

big boy
02-01-2010, 01:58 PM
I really doubted Willy was going to get much playing time.

I don't think Dusty can be trusted with a guy like Taveres. He was going to find some at-bats for Tavares.

CySeymour
02-01-2010, 02:01 PM
I don't think Dusty can be trusted with a guy like Taveres. He was going to find some at-bats for Tavares.

I totally agree. Give Dusty the opportunity to misuse a player, and he'll do it.

Newman4
02-01-2010, 02:04 PM
I would still like to have something other than TBA at the 5th starter spot to make in a completely successful offseason (assuming Gomes is on board)

redsof72
02-01-2010, 02:23 PM
It basically comes down to the fact that the Reds found a way to unload Taveras' contract. They had to give up a low-impact player to get someone to take Taveras, and they had to take on a contract that is bad, but not as bad as Taveras' contract. They saved a little money and added a player who will compete for a back-up role. Good move. If it was the NFL and contracts were not guaranteed, this deal would never have been made. The Reds would have just released Taveras. Oakland, with no actual interest in Taveras, was willing to eat the difference in the two contracts to add a minimum-salaried utility player in Rosales.

BigPoppa
02-01-2010, 02:52 PM
We need to have an emergency meeting to decide who will take his place. There's not much time until ST so we need to make a decision fast. ;)


This made me literally LOL. :D

BigPoppa
02-01-2010, 02:55 PM
Taveras has already been DFA'd by Oakland. LOL

-Matt

This also made me literally LOL. You guys are slaying me today.

BigPoppa
02-01-2010, 02:58 PM
I don't think Dusty can be trusted with a guy like Taveres. He was going to find some at-bats for Tavares.

Precisely. I'm glad now that he won't even have the temptation.

markymark69
02-01-2010, 03:02 PM
There was no guarantee that Dusty would start Stubbs in CF; I could definitely have seen him going with Taveras "until Stubbs got his feet wet." Or if one of the other outfielders started slumping, toss Taveras in for a while to lead off.

With Miles, there is literally no place to play him.

Anyway, I'll shut up now about the past and bask in this move

I'm basking as well. I think this move was more about ridding Taveras than picking up Miles. That being said. Miles brings more to the table than Rosales.

brachial pleXUs
02-01-2010, 03:03 PM
:jump::KoolAid: He's Gone! He's Gone! He's Gone! He's Gone ! He's Gone!

SullyGator
02-01-2010, 03:03 PM
I love this deal 100%. Considering Miles was injured a lot last year, he'll likely add something good... or at least more than Taveras. Sucks to see Rosales go, great guy, but I'm not worried

Walt Jocketty is quickly becoming a personal hero.

Newman4
02-01-2010, 03:04 PM
Why are folks so worried about losing Rosales? On ORG one guy was actually bummed about the trade. Are people that attached to their first impression? Wake up.

I agree with you, but some people value the scrappy factor. Remember the crying over Chris Denorfia?

fugowitribe
02-01-2010, 03:13 PM
Great great news. This off season just keeps getting better.



We need to have an emergency meeting to decide who will take his place. There's not much time until ST so we need to make a decision fast. ;)

It has to be Dusty Baker. It will take some serious Dustiness to screw this lineup up.

malcontent
02-01-2010, 03:15 PM
What in the world is Oakland doing? Did they want to get Rosales/get rid of Miles that badly?
It's the "genius" syndrome. Beane is anything but, and now he's flailing desperately to continue the charade.

My hat's off to Jocketty. I thought he was asleep at the wheel.

mattfeet
02-01-2010, 03:16 PM
This also made me literally LOL. You guys are slaying me today.

It's even more funny considering it's true. :beerme:

-Matt

GIDP
02-01-2010, 03:19 PM
Cabrera said he will help the team in any way possible even if it means changing his name to Juan Ocho

I guess Juan is Spanish for 1 even though last time I checked it was uno.

malcontent
02-01-2010, 03:25 PM
I don't think Dusty can be trusted with a guy like Taveres. He was going to find some at-bats for Tavares.
Of course he was. Remember "they gotta earn their pay"?

Plus, he knew he could drive all his detractors insane by starting him, if only occasionally. Toothpick couldn't have resisted that temptation.

Redlegs Homer
02-01-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm going to miss Rosales. He was my guy. Now my Rosales jersey is just a very rare piece of memorabilia :D

BigPoppa
02-01-2010, 03:33 PM
It's even more funny considering it's true. :beerme:

-Matt


Wow........I just noticed that. :eek:

Redlegs Homer
02-01-2010, 03:33 PM
I am thrilled that Tavares is gone. Now there is one less crappy player for Dusty to fall in love with!

FlyerFanatic
02-01-2010, 03:44 PM
i honestly might cry. tears of joy, this off season is officially the greatest off season in my time as being a reds fan. every single move walt has done has my full approval, taking a chance with chapman, bold move, but LOVE IT. getting a stop gap SS, without overpaying for it. now getting rid of walts biggest bust, man dusty must be pissed!

BLEEDS
02-01-2010, 04:01 PM
I would have been just as happy had we simply DFA'd him for nothing.

The fact that we got a veteran IF utility guy for him makes it even that much more better.

It's about time we used some of our SURPLUS - namely middling prospects - to make a move and get something of value in an area of need.
Even if this need was to simply take out the trash!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Vottomatic
02-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Other than getting rid of Tavares, the whole thing brings a great big yawn to my mouth.

malcontent
02-01-2010, 04:17 PM
I haven't felt this good about seeing a player go since Ryan Freel was traded.
:D

BLEEDS
02-01-2010, 05:09 PM
Other than getting rid of Tavares, the whole thing brings a great big yawn to my mouth.

And?

Who cares who he was traded for, the fact that he is off the team should be enough to celebrate!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

FlyerFanatic
02-01-2010, 05:18 PM
And?

Who cares who he was traded for, the fact that he is off the team should be enough to celebrate!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

exactly

CRedsLarkin11
02-01-2010, 05:19 PM
It would have been ridiculous to cut say Balentien or even Nix to keep a Taveras on the roster. This was necessary and a got a utility guy out of the deal somehow. Rosales is a dime a dozen other than his hustle. Good job Walt, I definitely like the offseason so far... just get Gomes to make it very nice or shock us all and sign Damon (I know it's not going to happen but I can dream)

goreds2
02-01-2010, 05:36 PM
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/statuses/8506178247

Reds and Oakland completed trade of Aaron Miles and PTBNL or cash for Willy Taveras and Adam Rosales... More on our site momentarily.



:party:

cbowen2112
02-01-2010, 05:41 PM
One of the best off seasons.

WillRich
02-01-2010, 05:54 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/02/athletics-designate-dana-eveland-for-assignment.html

With Taveras out of Oakland who could pick him up I wonder?

Red in Atl
02-01-2010, 06:19 PM
The fact that we got a veteran IF utility guy for him makes it even that much more better.

Even better, he has World Series experience to help bring all these kids along.

Red in Atl
02-01-2010, 06:21 PM
Who thinks Krivsky could have pulled off the last few weeks?

GIDP
02-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Who thinks Krivsky could have pulled off the last few weeks?

Me

nw_ohio_fan
02-01-2010, 06:59 PM
I think Krivsky could have, but I like what Walt has done. This has been a good weekend. Orlando then bye bye Willy. Don't forget Miles can play SS and 3B also. That's a great bench guy. He's a switch hitter so this will help. Thank You Walt.

Ghosts of 1990
02-01-2010, 07:01 PM
This is great! Very happy by this addition by subtraction move. Surprised a team like Oakland wanted either of these guys, and we acquire Miles in the deal. Miles was built for the NL Central.

nineworldseries
02-01-2010, 07:03 PM
Even better, he has World Series experience to help bring all these kids along.

Do you forget that Taveras had valuable World Series experience with 2 teams?? :D

XU Lou
02-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Great news! Taveras gone and a veteran on the bench. Best off season trade since the Reds traded Menke for Armbrister and a few other players to be named later.

Redsfan320
02-01-2010, 07:39 PM
WOOO-HOOO!!!!! Yeah! Thank you Walt! Party in Redsland!

320

reds77
02-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Why are folks so worried about losing Rosales? On ORG one guy was actually bummed about the trade. Are people that attached to their first impression? Wake up.

All it cost was Adam, sprint to first base on a walk, yeah just like Pete; but usually it's foul ball off to right, then strike out, not just like Pete.


Haha, your post made me laugh dude. You perfectly summarize why Cincinnati fans adore many other former Reds such as Chris Stynes and Ryan Feel.

Zimmers
02-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Goodbye willy freakin taveras. Awesome. I think fay on his twitter say something along the lines of who knew willy could be traded.

Baseball Lover
02-01-2010, 08:11 PM
Solid trade, toothpick is probably crying in his bowl of chili

mlh1981
02-01-2010, 08:31 PM
Well, who is gonna steal 100 bases now? :D

BLEEDS
02-01-2010, 08:46 PM
Even better, he has World Series experience to help bring all these kids along.

I know some people totally miss this point, but this team was entirely too young to compete.

In the last 1/2 season and off-season we've brought in Rolen, Cabrera, and now Miles.

The first two are proven GG-caliber defenders, winners and just all around good guys to have on your team, especially a young team. Miles is a good veteran who can lead from the bench and help young guys with their approaches to being PT/bench guys.

It really can't be understated enough. That's a huge paradigm shift for this roster in less than a year.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

ILoveWilly
02-01-2010, 09:48 PM
After going through about 2 boxes of tissues I think I'm ready to come to terms with it. Wily was a great leader off and on the field, and no doubt his tutelage was THE #1 reason for the way Stubbs played at the end of last season. The guy definitely made a big impact and any success we have in our OF this year needs to be partially credited to the way he brought along the young guys. It's intangibles like that that made him well worth his payday.

Redsfan320
02-01-2010, 10:02 PM
After going through about 2 boxes of tissues I think I'm ready to come to terms with it. Wily was a great leader off and on the field, and no doubt his tutelage was THE #1 reason for the way Stubbs played at the end of last season. The guy definitely made a big impact and any success we have in our OF this year needs to be partially credited to the way he brought along the young guys. It's intangibles like that that made him well worth his payday.

Dude... really.... wow... ;)

320

Griffey012
02-01-2010, 10:56 PM
Who thinks Krivsky could have pulled off the last few weeks?

I don't because Krivsky would not have had to dump Taveras because I doubt he would have signed him. He also would have been more apt to go with Cozart or Frazier at SS. But anyway, I am happy with the job Walt has done thus far so I am not complaining by any means.

Ghosts of 1990
02-01-2010, 11:26 PM
After going through about 2 boxes of tissues I think I'm ready to come to terms with it. Wily was a great leader off and on the field, and no doubt his tutelage was THE #1 reason for the way Stubbs played at the end of last season. The guy definitely made a big impact and any success we have in our OF this year needs to be partially credited to the way he brought along the young guys. It's intangibles like that that made him well worth his payday.

This has to be to make us laugh. :D

Well done.

Red in Atl
02-01-2010, 11:29 PM
I wasn't necessarily knocking Wayne either...he brought us some good talent.

I always just thought Walt was the guy who would always end up being here, and Wayne just got stuck in a bad situation without the time to prove himself.

He'll have his day I suspect...

gedred69
02-01-2010, 11:46 PM
Krivsky was about as friendly as a bed of Oak Planks. But, he also was adept at developing an MLB team from within the system. Just look at how succesful they are at that where he came from.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 03:25 AM
http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/statuses/8506178247

Reds and Oakland completed trade of Aaron Miles and PTBNL or cash for Willy Taveras and Adam Rosales... More on our site momentarily.

I always like Rosales because I think his bat is better than what we saw at the major league level, but we have tons of players to replace him with in the minors.

Interesting that Billy Beane would take Willy Taveras. I cant imagine what type of terrible play hes going to put out in oakland. Maybe he will hit gaps and maybe get a few extra doubles even though hes never really hit for any type of double power.

Thanks GIDP, for breaking this.

Wow!

:thumbup:

Way to go, Walt.

:beerme:

Agree with what you say about Rosales and Taveras in Oakland.

Beane is so adamant about getting high OBP guys in Oakland, that he was willing to put Jack Cust in the Outfield for many a game. Cust=Alonso Defensively in the Outfield (maybe worse), and Alonso is a better 1st Baseman than Cust is.

Could he possibly think what Baker thinks? That Taveras' speed would be a great defensive asset for Oakland's vast Outfield space? That because he resigned Cust already and needs Cust's OBP and SLG in the lineup, that he's willing to sometimes put Cust in the Outfield again, and make up for it by sticking Taveras in late as a Defensive replacement or in CF for a couple of innings along side him? I doubt if he'd start in Oakland. That's just against every principle that Beane believes in.

What a great trade.

Getting better with addition by subtraction. That's more playing time for Chris Dickerson and Drew Stubbs, and Chris Heisey, or a late summer move by Alonso/Votto.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:21 AM
There was no guarantee that Dusty would start Stubbs in CF; I could definitely have seen him going with Taveras "until Stubbs got his feet wet." Or if one of the other outfielders started slumping, toss Taveras in for a while to lead off.



That's the key right there.

That makes this so huge.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:24 AM
That Walt was willing to admit his mistake says a lot about him.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:26 AM
I know some people totally miss this point, but this team was entirely too young to compete.

In the last 1/2 season and off-season we've brought in Rolen, Cabrera, and now Miles.



While it's good to have balance in experience, winning is still going to come from your team OPS for and against. Finish first or second in either category and you're probably going far into the playoffs. Having a balanced experienced team can still get you last place.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 05:32 AM
Taveras has already been DFA'd by Oakland. LOL

-Matt


OK. I didn't see that. That makes sense.

Oakland did in one minute what we've all been wanting 30 days after Taveras became a RED.

So, the "price" for the REDS to dump Taveras, was "trading Adam Rosales". That's fair.

Now, he and his $4M is Oakland's problem.

texasdave
02-02-2010, 09:43 AM
Taveras has already been DFA'd by Oakland. LOL

-Matt

The Reds should do likewise with Aaron (Out By) Miles and go with Drew Sutton as their utility man.

nemesis
02-02-2010, 10:24 AM
The only issue with this trade to me is... That when Rolen goes down on his 2 DL stint's this year, Miles more then likely will be our everyday 3B for those 30 or 40 games over Frazier or Francisco. Duuuhsty still has the lineup card. Walt can't take that away from him.

tobttr
02-02-2010, 10:55 AM
It is so good to hear the optimism in this forum. Not the pie-in-the-sky stuff. You know, if Bruce just hits 55 HR and Harang wins 27 and Janish hits .350, but genuine fact-based optimism.
This franchise has been such a bad joke for such a long time. Maybe we've finally turned the corner. Now if we can just get the LF situation settled........

texasdave
02-02-2010, 11:08 AM
The only issue with this trade to me is... That when Rolen goes down on his 2 DL stint's this year, Miles more then likely will be our everyday 3B for those 30 or 40 games over Frazier or Francisco. Duuuhsty still has the lineup card. Walt can't take that away from him.

He could DFA Miles now, which is probably the best option.

BLEEDS
02-02-2010, 11:34 AM
He could DFA Miles now, which is probably the best option.

That will never happen. Jockety had him in St. Louis and specifically made this trade to get him - obviously with Beane dangling the carrot.

Walt got Beane to take out his trash for him - and saved $1.3M in the process.
Quite a coup if you ask me!

Also, MANY folks are hinting that this is NOT the last move for the Reds.
Methinks this doesn't just mean the Gomes inevitable minor league deal.

I think there is another move on the way, all behind the scenes and known by nobody else outside of the organization.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Red in Atl
02-02-2010, 12:20 PM
Why is everyone so down on Miles? He was hurt all last year. Before that he has four seasons as a starter where he hit .293, .260, .291 and .317. I think he'll be just fine on the bench.

Kingspoint
02-02-2010, 07:51 PM
The only issue with this trade to me is... That when Rolen goes down on his 2 DL stint's this year, Miles more then likely will be our everyday 3B for those 30 or 40 games over Frazier or Francisco. Duuuhsty still has the lineup card. Walt can't take that away from him.

I'm hoping for the switch-hitting, high OBP, Drew Sutton.

nemesis
02-02-2010, 10:36 PM
I'm hoping for the switch-hitting, high OBP, Drew Sutton.

Me too. Sutton strikes me as the kind of young man that would post a .265 .350 .450 off the bench kinda numbers. He had power and takes plenty on walks. His glove is a bit stiff but he just seems like a solid, not spectacular, long term bat off the bench. I'm happy Taveras is gone and I have zero issues with Miles, as long as Dusty uses him properly. A pinch hitter and a occasional spot start for Rolen and Phillips to keep them fresh. Way to much future talent on the farm to play behind him. We can all see Duuuuhsty doing just that.

OGB
02-03-2010, 04:22 AM
The Reds should do likewise with Aaron (Out By) Miles and go with Drew Sutton as their utility man.

I've never been an Aaron Miles fan, but it is nice to have a veteran reserve infielder that has proven throughout his career he can hit a little. Were you really that impressed last year with Sutton's ability to hit .212? If they need someone to give them defense off the bench its Janish--someone to give them some inkling of offensive ability, its Miles

Kingspoint
02-03-2010, 05:53 AM
I've never been an Aaron Miles fan, but it is nice to have a veteran reserve infielder that has proven throughout his career he can hit a little. Were you really that impressed last year with Sutton's ability to hit .212? If they need someone to give them defense off the bench its Janish--someone to give them some inkling of offensive ability, its Miles

What Sutton did last year is irrelevant to me and will be no indication to what he does this year, just like Norris Hopper is unlikely to hit his lifetime .317 with Milwaukee this year, Sutton should do the opposite. But again, keep in mind that Sutton's strength, Walks, is nullified when he pinch-hits, as pinch-hitters are supposed to be swinging for fastballs (unless the manager, and Dusty is not one of these managers, tells him to, "Get on base any way you can". The main reason though that pinch-hitters don't walk as much is because "closers" and "setup guys" are coming with their heat and are generally putting it near the strike zone.) As you say, Sutton would be great as a spot starter or replacement for the expected missed games of Rolen, and can also spot start at Shortstop, too, though it looks like Janish will get to be that person. Sutton's versatile enough to play any position except Catcher and Center Field.

BLEEDS
02-03-2010, 11:02 AM
But again, keep in mind that Sutton's strength, Walks, is nullified when he pinch-hits, as pinch-hitters are supposed to be swinging for fastballs (unless the manager, and Dusty is not one of these managers, tells him to, "Get on base any way you can". The main reason though that pinch-hitters don't walk as much is because "closers" and "setup guys" are coming with their heat and are generally putting it near the strike zone.)

You know I'm really starting to question this thought process of yours related to pinch-hitters being "dinged" for bad slash stats.

IF in these situations - as you state - pitchers are putting more balls in the strike zone, shouldn't that FAVOR the batter?!?!

I think any hitter, in ANY situation, is trying to not make an out. I don't see how coming in to pinch hit changes that. Unless you are looking to sacrifice fly, etc, in which case it doesn't affect your BA or OB.

If you were to argue that PH's suffer because they don't get consistent AB"s, then you might have something. But to say their stats suffer because they are swinging at strikes more seems a bit absurd.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Kingspoint
02-03-2010, 07:23 PM
IF in these situations - as you state - pitchers are putting more balls in the strike zone, shouldn't that FAVOR the batter?!?!

I think any hitter, in ANY situation, is trying to not make an out. I don't see how coming in to pinch hit changes that. Unless you are looking to sacrifice fly, etc, in which case it doesn't affect your BA or OB.

If you were to argue that PH's suffer because they don't get consistent AB"s, then you might have something. But to say their stats suffer because they are swinging at strikes more seems a bit absurd.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

When that one pitch the reliever throws is Nasty, then the batter isn't being favored.

To answer your question, find someone you can email who has played professional baseball for at least 10 years at the Major League level, and he'll tell you that as a pinch-hitter (later in his career), he had to change his approach and swing away, because that's what a pinch-hitter has to do. An 8th-inning and later pitcher is coming with the heat, he'll tell you, and that if you look for anything other than the fastball, you're not pinch-hitting correctly. Thus when you see a fastball, you need to be swinging. This takes away the Walks.