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savafan
02-23-2010, 02:23 AM
http://cbs2.com/national/Natalee.Holloway.Aruba.2.1512541.html

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (CBS) ―


Joran van der Sloot, Dutch teenager detained in connection with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, shown on June 11, 2005.

A Dutch newspaper is reporting that the main suspect in Natalee Holloway's disappearance has confessed to dumping her body in Aruba.

Holloway disappeared during a May 2005 vacation to the Caribbean island. The case has since gained a worldwide media following.

Dutch media outlet BNO News reported Monday night that Joran van der Sloot has confessed to leaving Holloway's body in a swamp.

He apparently confessed in front of news cameras Monday.

Two years ago, van der Sloot allegedly confessed to an undercover Dutch reporter but the courts wouldn't consider it legal evidence.

SeeinRed
02-23-2010, 12:49 PM
This whole thing has to be an absolute nightmare for the Holloway family. I have little doubt this guy is guilty, but there seems to be little that anyone can do. This guy is pretty much taunting the family with this kind of crap.

savafan
02-23-2010, 01:00 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/02/aruban-official-calls-confession-in-natalee-holloway-case-lies-and-fantasy/1

Aruban authorities say Joran van der Sloot "confessed" in a radio interview last year that he had killed American teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba five years ago, but that his version of events is full of holes and is not believable, Radio Netherlands Worldwide reports.

Van der Sloot, who once told an undercover reporter that he dumped Holloway's body at sea, told the German-language broadcaster RTL last August that he hid her remains in a swamp, RNW says.

RTL did not air that interview because of questions about its validity, but the purported "confession" prompted Aruban authorities to reopen their investigation into the disappearance of the Alabama teenager during a school graduation trip to Aruba in 2005.

Radio Netherlands says Aruban authorities found van der Sloot's time line inconsistent and that witnesses contradicted his version of events.

Aruban public prosecutor Peter blanken told the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf today that in following up on the interview "it soon became clear this statement is a mixture of lies and fantasy."

Blanken says that if van der Sloot wanted to confess, he would have indicated exactly where he took Holloway's body

The latest stir comes as van der Sloot returned to Netherlands to attend his father's cremation. Paul van der Sloot, a former judge in Aruba, was a vehement defender of his son's innocence.

Radio Netherlands also says RTL plans to interview van der Sloot again this week.

RNW says Dutch media have accused van der Sloot of trying to create the image of a"psychologically-unstable fabulist."

bucksfan2
02-23-2010, 01:36 PM
If there were vigilante justice, both Joran van der Sloot and his father should die a painful death. Joran for what he did to Natalee and his father for protecting his scum of a son.

westofyou
02-23-2010, 01:40 PM
The story that doesn't die and the story that eclipses other horrible facts like:

The U.S. Department of Justice reports

797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.

203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.

58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.

115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

savafan
02-23-2010, 01:49 PM
Sure WOY, but how many of those children were pretty blondes? That's why this story gets the attention it does...sad to say.

Sea Ray
02-23-2010, 03:58 PM
If there were vigilante justice, both Joran van der Sloot and his father should die a painful death. Joran for what he did to Natalee and his father for protecting his scum of a son.

Well it's too late for his Dad. he dropped dead last week at age 57.

As for Joran this is no confession. Until they find a body, he's just playing with the media.

bucksfan2
02-23-2010, 04:10 PM
Well it's too late for his Dad. he dropped dead last week at age 57.

As for Joran this is no confession. Until they find a body, he's just playing with the media.

I may be wrong here but wasn't there a case a few years ago in which a guilty conviction was made without a body? Granted this was in a US court and not Aruba where both the defendant and defendant's father hid themselves behind diplomatic immunity.

Sea Ray
02-23-2010, 04:17 PM
I may be wrong here but wasn't there a case a few years ago in which a guilty conviction was made without a body? Granted this was in a US court and not Aruba where both the defendant and defendant's father hid themselves behind diplomatic immunity.

Oh sure. It happens all the time. It happened in the Culberson case just up the road. But this is a pathological liar we're got here. He's "confessed" in the past. For example here he said he sold her into white slavery:

http://www.wtvynews4.com/alabamanews/headlines/35088834.html

His confessions don't mean too much

Blimpie
02-23-2010, 04:55 PM
I am not going to get too excited about this story just yet.

It was only a few years ago that the creepy guy (who apparently only wore clothes from the Chess King) 'confessed' to being the killer of Jon Beney Ramsey.

OldRightHander
02-23-2010, 05:20 PM
Sure WOY, but how many of those children were pretty blondes? That's why this story gets the attention it does...sad to say.

If she had been an unattractive overweight minority we wouldn't even know who she was, and Nancy Grace wouldn't have made it her personal crusade.

bigredbunter
02-23-2010, 08:48 PM
If she had been an unattractive overweight minority we wouldn't even know who she was, and Nancy Grace wouldn't have made it her personal crusade.

And why is that?

savafan
02-23-2010, 09:12 PM
And why is that?

Because it wouldn't have made for good television. That's not how I feel, but my opinion of what the media thinks. They believe more people will want to tune in and get the updates on the missing attractive blonde girl, not so much if she was an inner city child of low income parents.

Yachtzee
02-23-2010, 09:41 PM
I think it also didn't hurt that she disappeared while on a class trip to Aruba. That definitely strikes right at the heart of those "Real Housewives" types who have the money to send their kids on trips to Aruba. If its a poor kid from the bad part of town, well no one gives a hoot. Blame it it on bad parents not keeping track of their kid or something. But a cute blonde sent on a trip to Aruba by her parents? Well that could have been our Muffy.

Kingspoint
02-24-2010, 05:42 AM
The story that doesn't die and the story that eclipses other horrible facts like:

The U.S. Department of Justice reports

797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.

203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.

58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.

115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

I know. That's how I feel. Who the heck cares about Holloway anymore when you put it in that perspective. Every moment her story gets some attention, it's time that wasn't spent on looking for any of those other children who are missing.

The Holloway story was told. Move on to another one and shed some light on other missing children. Someone might have some information. Those shows, like "America's Most Wanted", prove that if you put a story on the media, clues will come in sometimes that help solve the cases.

Nobody (those who are doing the reporting on this) gives a rat's patooty about Holloway and their family. They just want ratings, period. If they cared one iota, they'd be doing a story on one of the 1000's of other missing children.

Holloway wasn't even a child. She was an adult, four months from her 19th Birthday.

Dom Heffner
02-24-2010, 07:18 AM
The story that doesn't die and the story that eclipses other horrible facts like:

The U.S. Department of Justice reports

797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.

203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.

58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.

115 children were the victims of “stereotypical” kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.)

A few things to point here:

So we're saying that of the 797,500 children reported missing, none of them was a pretty blonde? None of them came from well to do families?

This point about the news media is off a bit, I think.

For starters- there is no way to cover over 2000 individual kidnapping cases a day, especially when most of them are not a child safety issue- they are instances where a family member has taken a child involved in a custody dispute. The "kidnapper" is not raping, harming, or killing the child- they just want custody of the child over another party. While sad and awful, most of these children are not in imminent danger, are they?

And, if 2000 go missing a day, then it's not really news, is it? It happens every day. And there are only 30 minutes in a nightly newscast. And again, how would you propose the news media cover 2000 abductions per day? And are they all abductions? Are some just running away?

Now, how many of those 2000 per day are people who visited another country, went out for a night on the town, and didn't come home? Not many, so that makes it news. That's what news is- the reporting of things that happen out of the ordinary.

To the prior point- Natalee Holloway's case wasn't truly a missing person's case- we can infer from her situation that she was dead. It's always been a murder case- the only reason they put up "Missing" is that that don't have her body. How many young girls go out drinking in another country, walk off with numerous strange boys, go missing for several days, miss their plane back home, and then show up alive? Yeah, not many. So it's news.

In the missing cases you are reporting about, they aren't looking for bodies- they are looking for alive and well kids who were illegally taken from their rightful guardians by a disgruntled parent. While sad, I don't know that this calls for full blown attention from the media every time it happens, because it happens so much it's all we'd be talking about.

There is some intrigue, I guess, because Holloway was beautiful, and that's just human nature. But wouldn't there, statistically speaking, be someone who is beautiful out of the 2000 missing every day that the media doesn't report on? It doesn't seem fair to pick on the media for this case, when there are thousands of cute people who they don't report on, even though, as I have pointed out, the circumstances behind the abduction are totally different from Holloway's. And what I would argue is that it is the circumstances behind Holloway's disappearance/murder that drive this case more so than the fact that she was pretty.

Amber Alert stories are reported, and fairly so. But their reporting does leave one with the sense that strangers are trying to abduct children evey second of the day, when statisitics show that these type of abductions have held pretty level percentage wise, and the odds of your kid being taken off the street are astronomically low- which means when it does occur, it's news.

Kingspoint
02-24-2010, 08:24 AM
and the odds of your kid being taken off the street are astronomically low- which means when it does occur, it's news.

It's not low.....it's high.

"58,200 children are the victims of non-family abductions every year"

For the record, I didn't think WOY was commenting on "the pretty blonde" aspect. I think he's just disturbed that one individual case is getting a disproportionate amount of attention, as am I.

westofyou
02-24-2010, 09:28 AM
It's not low.....it's high.

"58,200 children are the victims of non-family abductions every year"

For the record, I didn't think WOY was commenting on "the pretty blonde" aspect. I think he's just disturbed that one individual case is getting a disproportionate amount of attention, as am I.

That's right, I have a relative by marriage whose sister was killed by the Hillside Strangler, I'm quite aware of what "murder" is to the press, or even what a missing girl is to the press.

But this story has legs that won't quit pumping and well it's kind of disturbing that it eclipsed and continues to eclipse other stories, and that has nothing to do with my feelings for little blondes (one of whom I married)

Dom Heffner
02-24-2010, 09:47 AM
Guys, you are misreading the statistics.

To believe that 158 kids are abducted by strangers everyday is absurd.

I'll post the link to the article, but this is what I am referring to about the hysteria over child abductions. There is not much chance that your child will be abducted by a stranger:


But how common are what the Justice Department calls “stereotypical” abductions, the nightmare-caliber crime involving a stranger or slight acquaintance who whisks away a child with the intention of holding him for ransom, keeping him or killing him?

Statistics vary, but not by much. Some estimate about 40 such cases occur each year in the United States. The Justice Department report says there were 115 cases in 2002.



Odds are one in a million.

You have a one percent chance of being seriously injured in a car accident. Better not drive, eh?

Here is the whole article, which states your kid has a 700 times greater chance of getting into Harvard than being abducted. It's just not a major problem, other than the custody incidents. The article also addresses the point of the inflated statistics for non-family abductions, which include 17 year old girls being held in their ex boyfriends cars and other occurances that skew the statistics.

It's just not a big deal in this country and it's never been.

There is a 1 in 78,000 chance dying while playing football, 1 in a million a child gets abducted.

Better cancel the Friday night lights LOL....

http://missingchild.wordpress.com/2006/08/17/how-dangerouus-is-childhood-cont/


The real statistics

Child abduction is the airplane crash of parental fears.

Intellectually, we know the odds: The chances of dying aboard a plane are slim (Lifetime odds: 1 in 500,000, and that’s for frequent fliers). But emotionally, we aren’t convinced. Flying scares us.

The difference, though: Despite our fears, we continue to fly. To refuse to board a plane would be to condemn ourselves to a limited life.

But we think nothing of limiting our children’s lives, based on fears that are even less likely to be realized.

As most people know by now, the majority of child abductions are custody related. There are also thousands of “lesser” nonfamily abductions, which “do not involve elements of the extremely alarming kind of crime that parents and reporters have in mind,” according to a 2002 U.S. Department of Justice report. Examples included in the report: a 17-year-old girl held in her ex-boyfriend’s car for four hours; a 14-year-old boy held at gunpoint by a man who accused him of hunting on his property; a 15-year-old girl forced into the boy’s bathroom at school and sexually assaulted.

Not happy scenarios, but not Lifetime television special material, either.

But how common are what the Justice Department calls “stereotypical” abductions, the nightmare-caliber crime involving a stranger or slight acquaintance who whisks away a child with the intention of holding him for ransom, keeping him or killing him?


Statistics vary, but not by much. Some estimate about 40 such cases occur each year in the United States. The Justice Department report says there were 115 cases in 2002.

Either way, with 60,700,000 children 14 and under in the United States, the odds of your child being the victim of an Adam Walsh-style abduction are roughly 1 in a million.

You’d be wiser to cancel those horseback-riding lessons. Your child is more likely to be killed in an equestrian accident. (Odds in one year for people who ride horses: 1 in 297,000.) Or better yet, pull him off the football team. (Yearly odds of dying for youth football players: 1 in 78,260.) And if you really want to protect them, sell your car. (Lifetime odds of dying as a passenger: 1 in 228. Odds of dying this year alone: 1 in 17,625.)

Or, to put another spin on it, your child is 700 times more likely to get into Harvard than to be the victim of such an abduction.

Chances that the kidnapped child will be killed are smaller still. The U.S. Department of Justice says 40 percent of the 115 victims were murdered.

Horrific, yes, but “almost certain not to happen,” says Stearns.

“But our emotions overwhelm our ability to calculate reality.”

What we’ve given up

Some say that if altering our lifestyles saves even one child, those measures are worth it.

But in protecting our children from the unlikeliest of scenarios, in the vain hope that no child will ever be hurt, we are inflicting greater harm on all of them.

Dom Heffner
02-24-2010, 10:33 AM
That's right, I have a relative by marriage whose sister was killed by the Hillside Strangler, I'm quite aware of what "murder" is to the press, or even what a missing girl is to the press.

But this story has legs that won't quit pumping and well it's kind of disturbing that it eclipsed and continues to eclipse other stories, and that has nothing to do with my feelings for little blondes (one of whom I married)

This story is eclipsing other news stories? Are you serious?

Joseph
02-25-2010, 12:37 PM
I think the implication is other stories of abduction/murder, not general news stories.

This case though has gotten too much press entirely. Here we are talking about it again and frankly nothing has changed since it initially ocurred several years ago. No one knows where Natalie is, and no one is any closer to being charged with a crime.

Sea Ray
02-25-2010, 12:52 PM
Dom makes a good point. This was a subject recently on the Mike McConnell show here in Cincinnati and he said that Hamilton County has not had a "stranger abduction" of a child in 30 years. I can't think of a one either so I trust he's right. Very, very rarely are kids abducted by strangers. This paranoid stuff of parents walking their kids to the bus stop is nuts. We never had parents at our bus stp growing up but now it's rare to see no parents at a bus stop in suburbia.

Sea Ray
02-25-2010, 12:54 PM
I think the implication is other stories of abduction/murder, not general news stories.

This case though has gotten too much press entirely. Here we are talking about it again and frankly nothing has changed since it initially ocurred several years ago. No one knows where Natalie is, and no one is any closer to being charged with a crime.

Greta Van Sustern has been in front of this case and frankly has been guilty in over hyping it but I found it curious that she did not cover this latest "confession". She briefly mentioned it as an aside and that was it.

Kingspoint
02-25-2010, 08:33 PM
It's not kidnapping if their bodies are buried in the Woods and never found.

If no one's caught, there isn't a crime.

It just becomes another missing child.

I guarantee you that Hamilton County, like any other County, has had "missing children" in the past 30 years.

Hamilton County has a full staff dedicated to "only" missing and exploited children. Their Call Center is considered one of the best in the Country for handling the emergencies associated with "missing and exploited children".

Kingspoint
02-25-2010, 08:45 PM
This was a subject recently on the Mike McConnell show here in Cincinnati and he said that Hamilton County has not had a "stranger abduction" of a child in 30 years. I can't think of a one either so I trust he's right. Very, very rarely are kids abducted by strangers. This paranoid stuff of parents walking their kids to the bus stop is nuts. We never had parents at our bus stp growing up but now it's rare to see no parents at a bus stop in suburbia.

That's just not true, Sea Ray and Dom Hefner.

There are 1000's of missing chilren from Ohio alone in just the last 15 years.

It's very sad that two educated people like yourselves are so unaware of this. It's nothing against you two at all. Please don't get me wrong about that. It's just that nothing gets done about letting people know how rampant the problem is because of "stupid stories like this Natalie Holloway case", which is a thing of the past and needs to be forgotten about. There's 1000's of other children who are missing, many of whom have been brutally murdered, buried to where they will never be found, and forgotten about.

There isn't a crime if there isn't a body (usually).

Please take the time to look at the link I gave you about the 1000's of missing children from Ohio alone and you'll understand that it's a real problem.

It's also no different than it was 60 years ago. There just wasn't any media at all to let people know about all of these cases of missing children.

Kingspoint
02-25-2010, 08:46 PM
http://www.mcc.ag.state.oh.us/EntityInfo/Photos/0006/3470/Thumbnail/1_4551_3.jpg

Child's Age:
16
Last Seen:
Last seen on 10-07-94 in Cincinnati, Ohio at the age of 12 months!.


http://www.mcc.ag.state.oh.us/EntityInfo/Photos/0005/2731/Thumbnail/1_3805_0.jpg

Child's Age:
20
Last Seen:
Last seen on 02-07-99 in Kettering,Ohio at the age of 9 years old!


http://www.mcc.ag.state.oh.us/EntityInfo/Photos/0186/93430/Thumbnail/1_97762_1.jpg

Child's Age:
10
Last Seen:
Last seen on 06-11-08 in Powell, Ohio

There's 1000's more.

Kingspoint
02-25-2010, 08:50 PM
Ohio's missing children:

http://www.mcc.ag.state.oh.us/P1.aspx?NS=S&PN=1

Kingspoint
02-25-2010, 08:51 PM
Odds are one in a million.



If odds were one in a million then no one on this site would have a relative who was missing as a child.

Dom Heffner
02-25-2010, 09:10 PM
Ohio's missing children:

http://www.mcc.ag.state.oh.us/P1.aspx?NS=S&PN=1

I'm not saying there aren't missing children- I'm saying that most are custody issues.

Again, 41 a year, normally taken in a stranger style abduction. Some places report between 100-130- okay, still not the problem you are making it about to be.

Missing does not equal stranger style abductions.

Dom Heffner
02-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Here's more support:


The department conducted a study in 2002 of non-family abducted children based on national data primarily from 1999.

Researchers found that of the 58,200 children abducted in the legal sense - meaning held against their will for a modest amount of time or moved even a short distance, often in commission of other crimes - an estimated 115 were stereotypical kidnappings. Stereotypical kidnappings were defined as abductions by strangers or slight acquaintances and involving a child transported 50 miles or more, detained overnight, held for ransom or with intent to keep the child permanently, or killed.

Of those children who were stereotypically kidnapped, 57 percent returned alive, 32 percent returned injured, 40 percent were killed and 4 percent never returned, the study reports.



http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/momme/2009/08/child-abductions-rare-stranger-kidnappings-more-infrequent.html

I think you are confusing missing person reports involving family members with stranger abductions.

This was the difference I was pointing out.

Sea Ray
02-25-2010, 11:19 PM
That's just not true, Sea Ray and Dom Hefner.

There are 1000's of missing chilren from Ohio alone in just the last 15 years.

It's very sad that two educated people like yourselves are so unaware of this.

I understand where you're coming from and don't worry, I don't take it personally. :thumbup:

My point is we don't know that these missing kids are due to stranger abductions. Right now they're just missing.

Here's an article I found that relates to the problem in the Cincinnati area:


Stranger abductions remain rare in the nation. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, an estimated 800,000 children are reported missing each year, but the majority are taken by a non-custodial parent, are abandoned or have run away from home.

It may seem there are daily media reports of children being enticed by adults, but the last local case involving a child abduction was in November 2001. In that case, a mother armed with a gun took her son from his foster parents at an elementary school in Clifton.
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/04/19/loc_loc1aent.html

Occasionally you'll get a case like Elizabeth Smart taken by that nut case in Utah but thankfully those are exceedingly rare.

11larkin11
02-26-2010, 02:15 AM
I just wanna jump in and give props to RTL for apparently not airing the story for not knowing its validity. WAY different from America, where every little peep gets breaking news, hours of speculation, only to find out it was a rumor started by a 47 year old guy living in his basement in a chat room. Man, what it must be like to have a media with a heart

camisadelgolf
02-26-2010, 02:48 AM
I just wanna jump in and give props to RTL for apparently not airing the story for not knowing its validity. WAY different from America, where every little peep gets breaking news, hours of speculation, only to find out it was a rumor started by a 47 year old guy living in his basement in a chat room. Man, what it must be like to have a media with a heart
When I lived in Europe, I frequently watched RTL and found their news programs to be way more reputable than almost any news program in the States. The media in the States has a serious problem, and it won't be fixed for a long time due to the ratings they get here.

Kingspoint
02-26-2010, 06:01 AM
Here's more support:



http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/momme/2009/08/child-abductions-rare-stranger-kidnappings-more-infrequent.html

I think you are confusing missing person reports involving family members with stranger abductions.

This was the difference I was pointing out.

I'm not nitpicking on statistics here, but I'm adamant that if there is a huge difference between "missing children" and "reported abductions". That number, "58,200" is a number that represents 58,200 cases where the child is "proved" to have been found. Not a single case where the child is murdered and never discovered is included in that 58,200 figure.

That department is trying to make you believe that the "total" number of children that have been abducted by strangers is only 115, when that just isn't anywhere close to the truth. Missing children abducted by strangers (or non-strangers) who are never found are not included among those figures. And, that figure, like the pictures of the faces I showed you is a very large number.

When a child of yours or someone you know gets taken, you'll believe the pictures are real, and that it's not some "relative" that's taken them. Their body will be buried in the woods somewhere, and won't ever be included in any statistic as an abducted child because they'll always remain "missing".

Sea Ray
02-26-2010, 08:42 AM
I'm not nitpicking on statistics here, but I'm adamant that if there is a huge difference between "missing children" and "reported abductions".


I'm trying to make sense of this sentence. It seems like you stopped short of making an important point. OK, if there is a difference, then what?



When a child of yours or someone you know gets taken, you'll believe the pictures are real, and that it's not some "relative" that's taken them. Their body will be buried in the woods somewhere, and won't ever be included in any statistic as an abducted child because they'll always remain "missing".

Has a child of someone you know been picked up by a stranger? If so I sincerely send my sympathies. Nothing could be worse than losing a child.

Personally I don't worry about it. I could spend my life worrying about getting hit by lightning and lesser possibilities but that's not the kind of guy I am. Nor am I planning on winning the lottery so I guess it goes both ways.

Dom Heffner
02-26-2010, 10:09 AM
Missing children abducted by strangers (or non-strangers) who are never found are not included among those figures. And, that figure, like the pictures of the faces I showed you is a very large number.



Stranger abductions are not a large number, and it is not a large problem. Maybe you know someone who it happened to, but that does not change the facts. I know a guy who won the lottery and the odds were 1 in several million.

I'm the only person with my name in the world. Guess my friends don't really know me, since the odds of knowing someone with my name are 1 in several million.

RBA
02-26-2010, 06:50 PM
If odds were one in a million then no one on this site would have a relative who was missing as a child.

Those odds are better then my retirement plan on winning MegaMillions.

savafan
02-26-2010, 08:01 PM
I'm always reminded of Shaylene Farrell, who was in my class at Piqua High School.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/farrell_shaylene.html

Yachtzee
02-26-2010, 08:34 PM
When I lived in Europe, I frequently watched RTL and found their news programs to be way more reputable than almost any news program in the States. The media in the States has a serious problem, and it won't be fixed for a long time due to the ratings they get here.

The news on most European channels is usually a higher quality than on US channels. I found them to be far more dedicated to hard news rather than sensationalism and fluff stories. We watched a lot of RTL when I was in Europe too, mostly because the Austrians were addicted to Married with Children and the Simpsons. RTL and Sat1 were also known for their love of Bud Spencer and Terence Hill movies and the occasional Russ Meyer film on late Friday and Saturday nights.

Dom Heffner
02-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Oops, wrong thread....

Kingspoint
02-27-2010, 05:48 AM
I'm trying to make sense of this sentence. It seems like you stopped short of making an important point. OK, if there is a difference, then what?



Has a child of someone you know been picked up by a stranger? If so I sincerely send my sympathies. Nothing could be worse than losing a child.

Personally I don't worry about it. I could spend my life worrying about getting hit by lightning and lesser possibilities but that's not the kind of guy I am. Nor am I planning on winning the lottery so I guess it goes both ways.

I accidentally put the word "if" in there. That totally changed that sentence.

I don't "worry" about things, either, but I'm vigilant. Were the bars on the windows when the kids were growing up? No. Did I check every night that the windows were locked and that the sticks were in the windows so that they couldn't be pushed open from the outside? Yes.

Will a locked door stop anyone from entering your house who wants in? No. It only takes them one second to enter, too, even if the door is bolted and locked. That doesn't mean that I don't still lock the door.

My sister was attacked by a man when she was a kid, but she got away. That man had the same color Volkswagon bug as Ted Bundy and was at the same time that Bundy could have been in our area.

I've had a conversation with a woman who was kidnapped, shot and left for dead in a ditch. She was able to crawl out and survived.

About 50 yards from my girlfriend's house in 1982 a 6-year old girl was abducted right out of her bedroom while her parents were watching TV. She was found dead in a ditch two days later.

But, no one who was a relative got abducted by a stranger or a non-stranger.

I don't carry a gun, but I believe one should always have one with them whenever they travel or are walking along in the dark in areas where they could be attacked. I choose not to because I've just chosen not to. I do think it's absolutely stupid to not carry one while hiking, especially if you're with a woman and/or a child. Go ahead and put yourself in danger, but don't put them in danger just because of some wussy beliefs about anti-gun control. There's just too many freaks out there. You're already in the woods. It's just too, too easy to bury the bodies for those who do this stuff. There was a case this week around here where a father had his son "take out the next guy who came along" so his son could "earn his bones". The son, 17 years old, beat the guy, this cross-country skier, to a pulp with a stick, then put a rope around his neck and dragged him into a ditch where he was supposed to be left for dead. Somehow, the guy lived and crawled out of the ditch and survived. The father is going to be sentenced to about 25 years and the son gets 8 years for testifying against his father.

This stuff is going on every day. The only ones you hear about are the ones where the bodies are found, except for the Natalie Holloway case because she was a pretty blonde.

Kingspoint
03-07-2010, 06:19 PM
By STEVE KARNOWSKI, Associated Press Writer – Sun Mar 7, 2:55 pm ET

MINNEAPOLIS – A new online database promises to crack some of the nation's 100,000 missing persons cases and provide answers to desperate families, but only a fraction of law enforcement agencies are using it.

The clearinghouse, dubbed NamUs (Name Us), offers a quick way to check whether a missing loved one might be among the 40,000 sets of unidentified remains that languish at any given time with medical examiners across the country. NamUs is free, yet many law enforcement agencies still aren't aware of it, and others aren't convinced they should use their limited staff resources to participate.

Janice Smolinski hopes that changes — and soon. Her son, Billy, was 31 when he vanished five years ago. The Cheshire, Conn., woman fears he was murdered, his body hidden away.

She's now championing a bill in Congress, named "Billy's Law" after her son, that would set aside more funding and make other changes to encourage wider use of NamUs. Only about 1,100 of the nearly 17,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide are registered to use the system, even though it already has been hailed for solving 16 cases since it became fully operational last year.

"As these cases become more well known, as people learn about the successes of NamUs, more and more agencies are going to want to be part of it," said Kristina Rose, acting director of the National Institute of Justice at the Justice Department.

Before NamUs, families and investigators had to go through the slow process of checking with medical examiner's offices one by one. As the Smolinski family searched for clues to Billy's fate, they met a maze of federal, state and nonprofit missing person databases that weren't completely public and didn't share information well with each other.

NamUs, the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, allows one-stop sleuthing for amateurs, families and police. Anyone can enter all the data they have on a missing person, including descriptions, photos, fingerprints, dental records and DNA. Medical examiners can enter the same data on unidentified bodies, and anyone can search the database for potential matches that warrant further investigation.

So far, about 6,200 sets of remains and nearly 2,800 missing people have been entered, said Kevin Lothridge, CEO of the National Forensic Science Technology Center in Largo, Fla., which runs NamUs for the Justice Department.

Detective Jim Shields of the Omaha, Neb., Police Department hadn't heard about NamUs until he saw a presentation at a conference in 2008. He then had a local volunteer associated with NamUs input his data on several missing people.

Among them was Luis Fernandez, who had been missing for nearly a year before his family went to police in 2008. Shields didn't have a lot on Fernandez, a known gang member who'd been in and out of jail — only gender, race, height, weight, age and some data on his tattoos.

It proved to be enough. Just a few weeks later, similarities were spotted with the unidentified remains of a homicide victim found in a farm field in Iowa in 2007. In January, a lab informed Shields it had a DNA match — and that he could break the news to Fernandez' family.

"I could say fairly certainly that this would never have been solved if not for NamUs," Shields said.

Some other recent successes:
• Paula Beverly Davis, of the Kansas City, Mo., area, had been missing for 22 years until a relative saw a public service announcement on TV in October for NamUs and told her sister, who gave it a try. Among the 10 matches her sister found were a body dumped in Ohio in 1987 that had the same rose and unicorn tattoos as her sister. DNA tests confirmed the body was Davis.

• Sonia Lente disappeared in 2002. Last June, an amateur cybersleuth with the Doe Network, a nationwide volunteer group that helps law enforcement solve cold cases, noticed similarities between Lente's description in NamUs and an unidentified body found near Albuquerque, N.M., in 2004. Dental records later established it was Lente.

Detective Stuart Somershoe of the Phoenix Police Department said his agency, which has over 500 open missing persons cases, just finished entering 100 cases into NamUs. He's hopeful his department can make a match.

"It's kind of time-consuming but I think it's a worthwhile program," Somershoe said.
NamUs grew out of a Justice Department task force working on the challenge of solving missing persons cases. One need that the task force identified was to give people who could help solve cases better access to database information.

"Billy's Law" sailed through the House late last month and is pending in the Senate, where supporters are confident it will easily pass.

The bill would authorize $10 million in grants annually that police, sheriffs, medical examiners and coroners could use to train people to use NamUs and to help cover the costs of entering data into the system. It would also authorize another $2.4 million a year to run the system and ensure permanent funding.

The bill would also link NamUs with a major FBI crime database that's now available only to law enforcement, partly because it contains sensitive information about ongoing investigations. That confidential data would be withheld from NamUs when necessary.

Billy Smolinski, of Waterbury, Conn., was last seen Aug. 24, 2004, when he asked a neighbor to look after his dog. His pickup truck was later found outside his home, though not where he usually parked it. His wallet and other belongings were still inside.

The Smolinski family first struggled to get police to take a missing adult case seriously. It took a long time for investigators to finally conclude Billy had been killed, perhaps as a result of a love triangle gone sour. The family put up reward posters, searched places where they thought his body might have been hidden and kept pressure on police.

Smolinski said she came to see how police were often overwhelmed, but to her NamUs is a "no-brainer." "If they find remains I'm hopeful they'll identify him through NamUs," Smolinski said.

GIDP
03-07-2010, 08:03 PM
Someone should have told him confessing is probably a bad move for him.

Blimpie
06-02-2010, 03:29 PM
Holy crap....Look who is back in trouble.

This, coming exactly five years to the day of the disappearance of Natalie Holloway:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/02/report-natalee-holloway-suspect-sought-murder-peru/


Police: Former Natalee Holloway Suspect Sought in Murder in Peru

LIMA, Peru -- A young Dutchman previously arrested in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway is being sought as a suspect in a weekend murder of a Peruvian woman, Peruvian police said Wednesday.

Criminal police chief Gen. Cesar Guardia told a news conference that Joran van der Sloot was being sought in the Sunday killing of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez in a Lima hotel. Guardia said the suspect fled the country the next day by land to Chile.

He said van der Sloot, 22, who was in the country for a poker tournament, appears with the young woman in a video taken at a Lima casino early Sunday.

The victim's father, Ricardo Flores, told reporters she was killed about 8 a.m. that morning in a hotel room that was splattered with blood, indicating a struggle.

The killing occurred exactly five years after the May 30, 2005, disappearance in Aruba of Holloway.

Van der Sloot left Peru on Monday, Guardia said, according to immigration registry. He had been staying at the hotel since May 14 and checked out on Sunday four hours after he arrived there with the victim, the police general added.

"We have an interview with a worker at the hotel who says she saw this foreigner with the victim enter his room," said Guardia.

The head of consular affairs at the Dutch Embassy in Lima, Angela Lowe, told The Associated Press she could not comment on the case for privacy reasons.

Van der Sloot was twice arrested but later released for lack of evidence in the disappearance of Holloway, who was on a high school graduation trip to the Caribbean island. No trace of her has been found.

The mystery of Holloway's disappearance has and garnered wide attention on television and in tabloid newspapers in Europe and the United States.

Redhook
06-02-2010, 08:11 PM
Unbelievable, shocking, and disgusting. This piece of garbage doesn't deserve to be above ground. Hopefully, he'll get what he deserves this time around. Too bad another girl may have died because of him.

savafan
06-03-2010, 02:01 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37492667/ns/world_news-americas/?GT1=43001


SANTIAGO, Chile - A Dutchman questioned in the 2005 disappearance of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway has been taken into custody in Chile for investigation in the killing of a woman in Peru, Chilean police said.

Police announced Thursday that Joran van der Sloot, 23, was in custody in Santiago.

Sea Ray
06-04-2010, 10:27 AM
There are a lot of idiots to go around in this case but here's one more:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/joran_van_der_sloot_suspect_in_1.html


The U.S. Attorney's office and FBI said that on May 15 van der Sloot extorted $15,000 as a partial payment, wired from Birmingham to the Netherlands.

The total amount he was to be paid was $250,000. The information that van der Sloot has provided to that unnamed individual was false, federal authorities said.

Have you wondered how this dude gets money to go hopping around the world? Well here Beth Holloway allegedly paid him $15K as a downpayment on $250K if he told her the whole story of what really happened to her daughter in Aruba.

Now we all know that Joran is a huge liar. Why would Ms Holloway think he'd be honest now? She's an idiot for giving him $15K and that money may have made it possible for him to travel to Peru and kill another victim.

WMR
06-04-2010, 11:46 AM
Enjoy Peruvian jail, scumbag.

You'll REALLY wish they had locked you up in Aruba...

nate
06-04-2010, 12:26 PM
There was a "Locked Up Abroad" episode in Peru.

Not exactly where I'd like to be detained.

But perfect for this...person.

oneupper
06-07-2010, 09:38 AM
Van der Sloot extradited from Chile.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=C1

Two latin american countries showing the Dutch (and Arubans) how to do this stuff.

Footage of him entering hotel room with girl and subsequently leaving alone release
(lower on page).

GIDP
06-07-2010, 09:42 AM
Killing is probably addictive. No joke I bet a lot of people who kill someone, unless its some type of self defense, really crave to do it again.

Cedric
06-07-2010, 03:54 PM
Killing is probably addictive. No joke I bet a lot of people who kill someone, unless its some type of self defense, really crave to do it again.

Ok........

I'm not sure the "probably" in your post has me convinced.

GIDP
06-07-2010, 04:01 PM
Ok........

I'm not sure the "probably" in your post has me convinced.

I'm not sure I care.

Cedric
06-07-2010, 04:10 PM
I'm not sure I care.

It was a joke. Lighten up.. Don't kill me.

GIDP
06-07-2010, 04:18 PM
It was a joke. Lighten up.. Don't kill me.

You certainly didnt make it seem like a joke. I dont have any numbers but I bet a lot of people who murder someone do it more than once if given a chance. There is probably an addictive rush that you get from it that a lot of people who do murder crave again.

Just saying.

Cedric
06-07-2010, 04:22 PM
You certainly didnt make it seem like a joke. I dont have any numbers but I bet a lot of people who murder someone do it more than once if given a chance. There is probably an addictive rush that you get from it that a lot of people who do murder crave again.

Just saying.

Well of course it was a joke. I don't actually think you are a murderer :)

GIDP
06-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Well of course it was a joke. I don't actually think you are a murderer :)

I thought you were just trying to be a smart you know what and do a back handed insult.

Fair enough.

savafan
06-08-2010, 10:08 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100608/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_peru_van_der_sloot


LIMA, Peru Dutchman Joran van der Sloot, long the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of a U.S. teen in Aruba, has confessed to killing a young Peruvian woman in his Lima hotel room, a police spokesman said.

Peru's chief police spokesman, Col. Abel Gamarra, told The Associated Press that Van der Sloot admitted under police questioning Monday that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores on May 30.

oneupper
06-08-2010, 12:09 PM
No death penalty in Peru or life sentence.
30 or 35 years is the max.

Look for Joran in 2040.

RichRed
06-08-2010, 01:39 PM
No death penalty in Peru or life sentence.
30 or 35 years is the max.

Look for Joran in 2040.

Unless he has an "accident" in prison.

KoryMac5
06-08-2010, 05:29 PM
There are a lot of idiots to go around in this case but here's one more:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/joran_van_der_sloot_suspect_in_1.html



Have you wondered how this dude gets money to go hopping around the world? Well here Beth Holloway allegedly paid him $15K as a downpayment on $250K if he told her the whole story of what really happened to her daughter in Aruba.

Now we all know that Joran is a huge liar. Why would Ms Holloway think he'd be honest now? She's an idiot for giving him $15K and that money may have made it possible for him to travel to Peru and kill another victim.

You would be amazed by what a parent would do to find out what happened to their daughter. Can't say I blame the parent for trying to find her daughters body and find out what truly happened so she can finally rest in piece. It was just a matter of time before Van der Sloot killed again and to place blame on anyone but him in this case is laughable.


From reading further about this it sounds like Van der Sloot shook the Holloways down for 15,000 dollars. The FBI looks like they were involved in an extortion case and probably wanted the Holloways to keep this going so that they could make an arrest.

westofyou
06-08-2010, 05:39 PM
No death penalty in Peru or life sentence.
30 or 35 years is the max.

Look for Joran in 2040.

Any history behind their sentencing laws?

Is it cultural, or some other aspect that is transparent to us who have been over saturated with stories of american justice or our propensity to produce serial killers?

nate
06-08-2010, 05:40 PM
He's lower than a whale deuce.

oneupper
06-08-2010, 05:41 PM
For those who speak spanish here's what Joran confesses to:

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber-matado-stephany-flores

Basically, he says they didn't have sex. He went to get some breakfast and found her fooling around with his laptop and finding out he was connected to the Hollloway case.
He became enraged, Karate-chopped her to the neck and then strangled her as she was agonizing on the floor.

The Peruvian police have the laptop. Maybe some evidence for the Holloway case, so this guy can get another 30 years once he gets out of Peruvian prison.

oneupper
06-08-2010, 05:46 PM
Any history behind their sentencing laws?

Is it cultural, or some other aspect that is transparent to us who have been over saturated with stories of american justice or our propensity to produce serial killers?

It's the same way in Venezuela and most other Latin American countries. No capital punishment and 30-35 years is the max.

Probably because constitutions are relatively new in these countries, mostly written after ousting some dictator in the 60's or 70's.

pahster
06-08-2010, 05:52 PM
You certainly didnt make it seem like a joke. I dont have any numbers but I bet a lot of people who murder someone do it more than once if given a chance. There is probably an addictive rush that you get from it that a lot of people who do murder crave again.

Just saying.

Nope. Murder is usually a crime of passion and murderers exhibit very low rates of recidivism.

westofyou
06-08-2010, 05:59 PM
Nope. Murder is usually a crime of passion and murderers exhibit very low rates of recidivism.

You numbers hound...

WMR
06-08-2010, 06:43 PM
Those interrogators in South America don't mess around. :D

Blimpie
06-09-2010, 11:20 AM
So... after the dude skates twice for lack of evidence in the Holloway killing, he decides to travel around the world with a laptop which contains easy access to evidence that he was her killer.

How did MENSA miss out on this one?

KoryMac5
06-09-2010, 02:06 PM
There are a lot of idiots to go around in this case but here's one more:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/joran_van_der_sloot_suspect_in_1.html



Have you wondered how this dude gets money to go hopping around the world? Well here Beth Holloway allegedly paid him $15K as a downpayment on $250K if he told her the whole story of what really happened to her daughter in Aruba.

Now we all know that Joran is a huge liar. Why would Ms Holloway think he'd be honest now? She's an idiot for giving him $15K and that money may have made it possible for him to travel to Peru and kill another victim.

This is why some folks need to get all the facts before jumping to conclusions.


WASHINGTON U.S. authorities paid Joran van der Sloot at least $15,000 in a sting operation and delayed arresting him because they were trying to help build a murder case against him in the 5-year-old slaying of Natalee Holloway in Aruba, two federal law enforcement officials said Wednesday.

During that delay, van der Sloot arrived in Lima, Peru, on May 14, and authorities say he has confessed to last week's killing of a 21-year-old woman in his hotel room there.

The law enforcement officials say the investigation into Holloway's unsolved murder was revived about six weeks ago when van der Sloot reached out to someone close to Holloway's mother in Alabama and requested $250,000 in exchange for disclosing the location of Holloway's body on the island of Aruba.

Looks like the Feds along with authorities in Aruba have been trying to pin this guy against the wall for some time.

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 09:57 AM
This is why some folks need to get all the facts before jumping to conclusions.



Looks like the Feds along with authorities in Aruba have been trying to pin this guy against the wall for some time.

How do you know what the true facts are? I reported the facts as I heard them at the time. I got news for you: reports on stuff like this change:

How 'bout this for a couple reports that support what I wrote:


The FBI is denying reports that it paid Joran van der Sloot in an attempted sting while trying to build a murder case against him.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/06/09/2010-06-09_fbi_paid_van_der_sloots_way_to_peru_while_build ing_murder_case_report.html#ixzz0qSSRrNoF


And we have shocking new information about in case tonight. Yesterday we reported bombshell news. Van der Sloot allegedly paid for his trip to South America by extorting money from Natalee Holloway's mother. Prosecutors in Alabama say van der Sloot promised to tell Beth Holloway what really happened to her daughter in exchange for $250,000.

Now, on May 10th, Holloway transferred Van der Sloot $15,000 as a down payment. We have news about how that alleged crime occurred and who was watching. Joining us is Bo Dietl chairman and CEO Bo Dietl and Associates. Bo, what happened on May 10th, who was there and was it recorded? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594062,00.html?mep

Now I wasn't there so all I can go on is what's reported. If you know for sure that these reports are false then let me know. I reported accurately what was on the news at that time. If reports change then so be it.

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 10:04 AM
For those who speak spanish here's what Joran confesses to:

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber-matado-stephany-flores

Basically, he says they didn't have sex. He went to get some breakfast and found her fooling around with his laptop and finding out he was connected to the Hollloway case.
He became enraged, Karate-chopped her to the neck and then strangled her as she was agonizing on the floor.

The Peruvian police have the laptop. Maybe some evidence for the Holloway case, so this guy can get another 30 years once he gets out of Peruvian prison.


The guy is a pathological liar and few folks believe this version of events. Most think he killed her over sex or money. There have been reports that she's a lesbian so he picked the wrong girl for sex

http://www.queerty.com/joran-van-der-sloot-confesses-to-killing-peruvian-lesbian-stephany-ramirez-no-death-penalty-20100608/

http://crime.about.com/b/2010/06/04/joran-van-der-sloot-arrested-in-chile.htm

Why that girl would go to his room alone at 5am is a mystery and I'd hope girls in my family would know better.

KoryMac5
06-10-2010, 11:50 AM
How do you know what the true facts are? I reported the facts as I heard them at the time. I got news for you: reports on stuff like this change:

How 'bout this for a couple reports that support what I wrote:


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/06/09/2010-06-09_fbi_paid_van_der_sloots_way_to_peru_while_build ing_murder_case_report.html#ixzz0qSSRrNoF

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594062,00.html?mep

Now I wasn't there so all I can go on is what's reported. If you know for sure that these reports are false then let me know. I reported accurately what was on the news at that time. If reports change then so be it.

Read your earlier post again especially the part about Holloway financing Van der Sloot's next murder. If that's not jumping to conclusions than I don't know what is. It is laughable to place blame on the Holloway family here when it appears they did the right thing by contacting the authorities.

redsfandan
06-10-2010, 11:55 AM
For those who speak spanish here's what Joran confesses to:

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/07/06/2010/joran-van-der-sloot-confeso-haber-matado-stephany-flores

Basically, he says they didn't have sex. He went to get some breakfast and found her fooling around with his laptop and finding out he was connected to the Hollloway case.
He became enraged, Karate-chopped her to the neck and then strangled her as she was agonizing on the floor.

The Peruvian police have the laptop. Maybe some evidence for the Holloway case, so this guy can get another 30 years once he gets out of Peruvian prison.
Thanks for the link. Even though I remembered that 'he' can really mean 'she' (and stuff like that) it was still 'interesting' to read that. I think I might be in trouble if I was in Peru.

The guy is a pathological liar and few folks believe this version of events. Most think he killed her over sex or money. There have been reports that she's a lesbian so he picked the wrong girl for sex
http://www.queerty.com/joran-van-der-sloot-confesses-to-killing-peruvian-lesbian-stephany-ramirez-no-death-penalty-20100608/[/B].
Speculation. Even if true you'd have to show that the suspect knew that he had NO chance. Some guys can recognize that a girl is 'off-limits' and respect that. Some won't. I suspect Van der Sloot falls into the later category.

Why that girl would go to his room alone at 5am is a mystery and I'd hope girls in my family would know better.
In the video she looked kinda out of it which wouldn't be surprising.

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 01:49 PM
Read your earlier post again especially the part about Holloway financing Van der Sloot's next murder. If that's not jumping to conclusions than I don't know what is. It is laughable to place blame on the Holloway family here when it appears they did the right thing by contacting the authorities.

The money he got in this extortion case did finance his trip to Peru. Do you think it didn't? All indications are that he was broke before he got that money. If you take issue with those facts then let's hear it

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 01:54 PM
Speculation. Even if true you'd have to show that the suspect knew that he had NO chance. Some guys can recognize that a girl is 'off-limits' and respect that. Some won't. I suspect Van der Sloot falls into the later category.




I'd have to show what? I doubt he knew she was a lesbian but so what? If he did want sex from her then he picked the wrong chick. That's my point

KoryMac5
06-10-2010, 02:12 PM
The money he got in this extortion case did finance his trip to Peru. Do you think it didn't? All indications are that he was broke before he got that money. If you take issue with those facts then let's hear it

Sure he was able to go to Peru on the Govt dime I don't disagree with you on that point. Where I do disagree is when you take it one step further in placing blame on the Holloways for this womans murder. The Holloways by all accounts were following advice from both the Feds and their lawyer on how to handle this extortion that Van der Sloot was trying to perpetrate against them.

If anything the FBI dropped the ball here by letting him slip through the net, but blaming the family for another murder is simply wrong and misguided.

redsfandan
06-10-2010, 02:14 PM
I'd have to show what? I doubt he knew she was a lesbian but so what? If he did want sex from her then he picked the wrong chick. That's my point

Again, that's speculation. She may be gay, bi, or straight. In the video I saw she looked so out of it that any is a possibility.

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 02:22 PM
If anything the FBI dropped the ball here by letting him slip through the net, but blaming the family for another murder is simply wrong and misguided.

My point is that it was the Holloway's $25K that made it possible for him to travel to Peru. He was broke before he got that piece of change.


Just after news broke that van der Sloot was wanted for the Flores murder, Dutch journalist Jaap Amesz interviewed a friend of van der Sloot's who described him as broke, "completely desperate and pretty depressed."

"I was in touch with Joran until right before May 30," the friend told Amesz. "He was in Peru. That was known. In Aruba, he couldn't deal with it anymore. His relationship with his mother was getting worse. He had gambled money away again. This is what preceded his flight to Peru. Right before the weekend, it was clear that Joran was in financial trouble, and he was pretty confused. Driven by hunger, the fear of not being able to pay for his hotel. He desperately needed money. I have never seen Joran so frustrated as in this period."


http://abcnews.go.com/International/Media/joran-van-der-sloot-paradise-prison/story?id=10860167

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 02:24 PM
Again, that's speculation. She may be gay, bi, or straight. In the video I saw she looked so out of it that any is a possibility.

What is speculation? That she's gay? I don't understand your point

vaticanplum
06-10-2010, 03:16 PM
Ok, so, um, a straight girl would be the "right chick" to rape? What, would she enjoy it more?

Just want to make sure I understand.

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 03:47 PM
Ok, so, um, a straight girl would be the "right chick" to rape? What, would she enjoy it more?

Just want to make sure I understand.

No you don't get it. Let me spell it out for you.

Perhaps he wanted "to score" with this girl. In other words, have consentual sex with her. His chances of that happening are much less if his choice of women is gay.

Why are you assuming that he wanted to violently rape someone?

KoryMac5
06-10-2010, 04:16 PM
My point is that it was the Holloway's $25K that made it possible for him to travel to Peru. He was broke before he got that piece of change.




http://abcnews.go.com/International/Media/joran-van-der-sloot-paradise-prison/story?id=10860167

You mean the 25,000 that the Feds wanted the Holloways to pay Van der Sloot to build an extortion case against him. The Feds dropped the ball not the Holloways. You can't lay the blame on them here, they followed the advice of lawyers and investigators.

Personally I think this guy was a ticking time bomb if it didn't happen in Peru it would have happened in Aruba.

vaticanplum
06-10-2010, 04:30 PM
No you don't get it. Let me spell it out for you.

Perhaps he wanted "to score" with this girl. In other words, have consentual sex with her. His chances of that happening are much less if his choice of women is gay.

Why are you assuming that he wanted to violently rape someone?

Because rape is a crime of violence. Pretty simple.

westofyou
06-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Because rape is a crime of violence. Pretty simple.

Yeah, I'm fairly the other persons sexual preference is pretty much cast aside in a rape scenario, because it's not at all about sex.

Kingspoint
06-10-2010, 04:53 PM
He won't be murdering anybody else.

That's for sure.

Jack Burton
06-10-2010, 06:28 PM
This is one person that I just can't stand the sight of. Rot pal

fearofpopvol1
06-10-2010, 06:46 PM
He won't be murdering anybody else.

That's for sure.

Says who? 35 years is the maximum sentence. He'll be in his Mid-50s when he gets out. If he's convicted of additional crimes, it could be a different story. Either way though, I don't think he's going to be in for life.

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 07:30 PM
Because rape is a crime of violence. Pretty simple.

I was not making the assumption (like you were) that he intended to rape her. We see on tape that she is willingly following him to his room at a very strange hour. He's not forcing her at that point. I have not seen any indication that her body showed signs of a sexual assault. Therefore I do not think that rape was on his mind. I was coming at this from an entirely different angle

Sea Ray
06-10-2010, 07:38 PM
You mean the 25,000 that the Feds wanted the Holloways to pay Van der Sloot to build an extortion case against him. The Feds dropped the ball not the Holloways. You can't lay the blame on them here, they followed the advice of lawyers and investigators.

Personally I think this guy was a ticking time bomb if it didn't happen in Peru it would have happened in Aruba.

If the FBI told the Holloways to do it then I agree with you. If by the Feds you mean the FBI then I don't agree with you. The FBI has no jurisdiction in another country. The Aruban gov't is to blame for letting him leave the country. They were in on all of this and they should have taken his passport at the very least.

Remember he used the Holloway's money to get to Peru where he killed another person. He's been in Aruba a great deal since his Dad died and there's no indication that he's killed anyone. Why do you feel an Aruban killing was now imminent?

I disagree with you. I think he's very well known in Aruba and for that reason that'd be the last place he'd commit another murder. I think it's much more likely he'd kill again in a country like Peru where he'd fly under the radar

Blimpie
06-11-2010, 04:54 PM
I will believe it, when I see it.... Sounds like nothing more than another publicity ploy for the suspect.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.34c2d1e015a4313d8a5326dff93b6f0 2.101&show_article=1


Dutchman to reveal info on missing US teen
Jun 11 04:40 PM US/Eastern
A Dutchman charged with the murder of a Peruvian woman will tell police where to find the body of a US teen who disappeared in Aruba in 2005, a senior Peruvian police investigator said Friday.
General Cesar Guardia, who is leading the investigation into Joran Van der Sloot's role in the murder of the Peruvian woman, said the Dutch citizen had let slip that he knew the whereabouts of 18-year-old American Natalee Holloway.

But Van der Sloot told Peruvian police that he would only "talk about the matter with Aruban authorities," Guardia told AFP.

"It is what he said and it did not appear in the investigation documents because it was not revealed during an interrogation," he added.

"He revealed it... during an informal conversation," Guardia said. "He said he knew where the young American is."

Earlier Guardia told US network ABC that Van der Sloot had agreed to provide information about the case, which attracted huge media attention in the United States, the Caribbean and Europe, but was never solved.

"Yes, Joran is ready to discuss this whenever officials from Aruba can come to Peru," he said.

Van der Sloot, 22, was charged Friday with first-degree murder in connection with the May 30 death of 21-year-old Stephany Flores who was found beaten to death in his Lima hotel room.

Lima Judge Juan Buendia ordered that he "be prosecuted as the perpetrator of the alleged crimes of first-degree murder and simple theft," court spokesman Luis Gallardo told AFP.

Earlier, prosecutor Ninfa Espinosa had urged that Van der Sloot be detained on the charges and accused him of having carried out the alleged crime "with the aggravating factors of ferocity and cruelty."

After the charges were announced, he was transferred to the Castro Castro prison in Lima surrounded by security officials and journalists and a crowd that screamed "die murderer" and "pay for murdering" at him.

A police source told media here that Van der Sloot has confessed to killing Flores in his hotel room on May 30 in a fit of rage, saying she used his laptop without permission.

Van der Sloot has long been a prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Holloway, who went missing after a night of drinking with him on the Caribbean island of Aruba.

The son of a prominent judge, Van der Sloot was twice arrested in connection with Holloway's disappearance and spent three months in jail but was never charged.

In quotes released by Peruvian authorities, Van der Sloot said he was motivated to kill Flores after she used his computer and saw information online linking him to the Holloway case.

"She had no right" to see the laptop, he said, according to police. "I approached her, she was frightened. We discussed it and she tried to escape. I grabbed her by the neck and hit her."

The US Federal Bureau of Investigation came under fire this week after reports that it missed an opportunity to arrest him last month, prior to the Peru murder.

It was investigating the Dutch citizen for criminal conduct after he offered information on Holloway's disappearance in exchange for some 250,000 dollars.

FBI agents met with him in Aruba and he reportedly accepted sting money, committed wire fraud and made incriminating statements about Holloway's death during the meeting, which was recorded.

But he was allowed to go free, and made his way to Peru and then to Chile, where he was finally arrested on June 3 in connection with Flores's death.

Sea Ray
06-11-2010, 05:25 PM
I will believe it, when I see it.... Sounds like nothing more than another publicity ploy for the suspect.



Yes he's given many different stories in the past and it's laughable that he'll only tell Aruban police. He's had ample opportunity to tell Aruban police. I'll believe he'll tell the truth as soon as I see a reason for him to come clean now. He doesn't do anything unless there's something in it for him

Dom Heffner
06-11-2010, 07:08 PM
The money he got in this extortion case did finance his trip to Peru. Do you think it didn't? All indications are that he was broke before he got that money. If you take issue with those facts then let's hear it

While the money financed the trip, it isn't anybody's fault this poor woman was killed other than Van Der Sloot's (You may or not feel this way, I only quote you because of the mention of the payment).

The media keeps saying he should have been in jail, but please, like the Feds or the Arubian government should be saying, "Well we could build a case here to make ure we get him, or maybe we should go arrest him right now because he might go and kill somebody.."

Ridiculous.

Sea Ray
06-12-2010, 08:01 AM
While the money financed the trip, it isn't anybody's fault this poor woman was killed other than Van Der Sloot's (You may or not feel this way, I only quote you because of the mention of the payment).

The media keeps saying he should have been in jail, but please, like the Feds or the Arubian government should be saying, "Well we could build a case here to make ure we get him, or maybe we should go arrest him right now because he might go and kill somebody.."

Ridiculous.

I think they should have at least taken his passport