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View Full Version : Back-up infield/outfield and Frazier's possible role there



Edd Roush
03-01-2010, 11:38 PM
Given that there is no position that the Reds really need to be readying Frazier for in the near future, would any one be seriously opposed to Frazier making the team as a utility guy this year and getting spot starts all around the field or is still more advantageous to let him play everyday at AAA?

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 10:34 AM
Given that there is no position that the Reds really need to be readying Frazier for in the near future, would any one be seriously opposed to Frazier making the team as a utility guy this year and getting spot starts all around the field or is still more advantageous to let him play everyday at AAA?

The problem with this is the 25 man roster. If he made the team he'd be competing with Sutton, Miles and Janish. As it is I'm not sure all three make it. If you add Frazier then you might have to cut two.

I don't think now is the time to put Frazier on the 25 man

membengal
03-02-2010, 10:38 AM
I would love Frazier ahead of Sutton and/or Miles. Done and done. Give me a versatile guy off the bench with the bat to hit around .800 OPS every day of the week and twice on Sunday as he looks for an opening into the everyday line-up. Frazier could back up at every position in the infield and at the corners in the OF. He's the guy to give Votto the occasional day off.

I hope Frazier rakes all spring and forces his way onto the team. I would feel a lot better about the bench depth with him on the roster.

mace
03-02-2010, 11:01 AM
Frazier might actually be the best fit for the bench. Think about where the team needs backups. They'll have 2B-SS and probably 3B covered with a reserve infielder (Miles and/or Janish). There will be two left fielders, and Dickerson can back up center. Obviously, there'll be a backup catcher. What's still lacking is an occasional sub for Votto and a RH hitter to play right field now and then. Of all the candidates, that best matches up, I think, with Frazier, who could also be useful at 3B if Rolen gets nicked. I'm not saying that's the best thing for Frazier's sake, but it might be the best for the club.

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 11:30 AM
I would love Frazier ahead of Sutton and/or Miles. Done and done. Give me a versatile guy off the bench with the bat to hit around .800 OPS every day of the week and twice on Sunday as he looks for an opening into the everyday line-up. Frazier could back up at every position in the infield and at the corners in the OF. He's the guy to give Votto the occasional day off.

I hope Frazier rakes all spring and forces his way onto the team. I would feel a lot better about the bench depth with him on the roster.

The wildcard here is can Frazier be productive in such a role? Young players often struggle when they don't play everyday.

membengal
03-02-2010, 11:36 AM
Since the baseline is Miles and Sutton, I am comfortable that, yes, he can produce in such a role. In fact, that's often how young guys break into the bigs. Dusty himself, as he is wont to remind us all, broke in like that. Kevin Mitchell caddied for the 1986 Mets. Etc. etc. etc.

I think it is a great way to break kids who are ready into the bigs, and Frazier is, by all accounts, ready.

ETA: Mods, if this is a discussion that needs to be spun into a different thread to avoid cluttering this one, please advise.

Boss-Hog
03-02-2010, 11:39 AM
ETA: Mods, if this is a discussion that needs to be spun into a different thread to avoid cluttering this one, please advise.
Yes, please...start a new thread and I'll merge the above posts into it.

membengal
03-02-2010, 11:41 AM
Starting this thread to keep a side discussion from eating the updates thread. Boss has indicated he will merge some posts herein.

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 11:43 AM
Now that we've started a new thread, I don't have much to add. I'd have no problem giving Frazier a shot at earning a utility job with this team

membengal
03-02-2010, 11:45 AM
There's some good Frazier and Dorn discussion in there, I will wait before pasting some of that discussion here to see if the mods merge it.

edabbs44
03-02-2010, 12:11 PM
The problem with this is the 25 man roster. If he made the team he'd be competing with Sutton, Miles and Janish. As it is I'm not sure all three make it. If you add Frazier then you might have to cut two.

I don't think now is the time to put Frazier on the 25 man

Is this a bad thing?

membengal
03-02-2010, 12:11 PM
Thanks a ton, mods.

It just seems to me that for a team needing as much offense as possible, Frazier makes a ton of sense to have on hand with the big league club off the bench and filling in as needed for starts. I don't know that there is more for him to accomplish at AAA.

Edd Roush
03-02-2010, 12:15 PM
Answering my own question, I think I would like to see Frazier up on the big team to start 2010. I like Frazier as the primary back-up for 3b, 2b, 1b, lf, and rf which allows Janish to be a defensive replacement for ss and Gomes to be saved for when his bat can be best utilized for the end of the game.

osuceltic
03-02-2010, 12:16 PM
If he can't start, he needs to go to AAA and play everyday. Reps and at-bats are gold for young guys. The last thing he needs is to play twice a week and get occasional pinch-hit at-bats against tough bullpen guys.

Not to mention, if I'm Frazier, I don't want to be labeled a utility guy off the bat.

Nasty_Boy
03-02-2010, 12:39 PM
I'm all for getting the most ML ready talent on the 25 man roster... And if you can get Frazier the needed ABs to be productive and not hurt his development, then by all means take him north. I am kind of anxious to see what a healthy Sutton can do... He's a switch hitter and he had solid minor league numbers. I know what Miles can do, and I hope I don't have to see him do it in a Reds uniform.

Edd Roush
03-02-2010, 12:40 PM
If he can't start, he needs to go to AAA and play everyday. Reps and at-bats are gold for young guys. The last thing he needs is to play twice a week and get occasional pinch-hit at-bats against tough bullpen guys.

Not to mention, if I'm Frazier, I don't want to be labeled a utility guy off the bat.

osuceltic, where would you play him in AAA? 2b in case Phillips goes down? 3b in case Rolen goes down? Outfield? I think this is a legitametely difficult question for Walt and I think if I send him down it would be to play 3b due to Rolen's age and ability to play a full season. That being said, I really think that they think Francisco can be a special player and I see him being the primary 3b at AAA this season.

RedlegJake
03-02-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm all for getting the most ML ready talent on the 25 man roster... And if you can get Frazier the needed ABs to be productive and not hurt his development, then by all means take him north. I am kind of anxious to see what a healthy Sutton can do... He's a switch hitter and he had solid minor league numbers. I know what Miles can do, and I hope I don't have to see him do it in a Reds uniform.

Agree 100%. Sutton should get the shot to be the "hitter" off the bench and let Frazier play 3rd at AAA fulltime. Drew's minor league numbers are good and now that he's healthy let's see. Frazier can always come up later if Sutton flops.

osuceltic
03-02-2010, 01:42 PM
osuceltic, where would you play him in AAA? 2b in case Phillips goes down? 3b in case Rolen goes down? Outfield? I think this is a legitametely difficult question for Walt and I think if I send him down it would be to play 3b due to Rolen's age and ability to play a full season. That being said, I really think that they think Francisco can be a special player and I see him being the primary 3b at AAA this season.

I don't know. Probably left field, because I think we have a real need there and his bat is close. I doubt Francisco is a left-fielder, and I think he could use plenty of reps at third. Second for Frazier? Maybe.

I just can't make that call based on what I know about each guy -- which isn't much. All we really know are numbers and sketchy scouting reports. You'd need to see these guys, talk to their minor league managers and coaches, and make a decision that way. What is best for the player? What is best for the organization? What can he handle? What is the balance of immediate need and need two years from now?

The one thing I know is I don't want any of these guys sitting the bench in Cincinnati. They need to play.

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 02:31 PM
Is this a bad thing?

It could be. If it stunts Frazier's development and we lose Sutton and Miles due to free agency or options then we can end up being thin in utility INFs

edabbs44
03-02-2010, 03:57 PM
It could be. If it stunts Frazier's development and we lose Sutton and Miles due to free agency or options then we can end up being thin in utility INFs

We could lose Sutton and Miles today and I don't see this team getting worse.

membengal
03-02-2010, 04:12 PM
We could lose Sutton and Miles today and I don't see this team getting worse.

This.

TRF
03-02-2010, 04:19 PM
I'd start him at AAA, at 3B and not play him a single inning at any other position. He could be the 3B of the future as soon as next year. You never know.

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 04:19 PM
We could lose Sutton and Miles today and I don't see this team getting worse.

You don't understand. Sutton is all we have to show for Keppinger and Miles for Tavares. We can't let talent like that go for naught...

Will M
03-02-2010, 04:28 PM
remember Sutton was ill last year. don't write him off just yet.

i suspect Janish makes the team as a late inning defensive specialist.

that leaves one bench IF spot. i want it to go to either Sutton or Frazier but they have to win the job this spring.

tripleaaaron
03-02-2010, 04:58 PM
You don't understand. Sutton is all we have to show for Keppinger and Miles for Tavares. We can't let talent like that go for naught...

So when we receive that PTBNL for Tavares we can let him go? Or is that the player that must stay in the system to represent Rosales? This logic makes no sense, either they help the team or they hit the road, regardless of what we traded for them (even though I wouldn't consider either Keppinger OR Tavares losses necessarily). I think Sutton is worth holding onto as he put up solid numbers in the minors and could possibly be healthy this season, but I see no real need for Miles. We have several just like him on minor league deals who could fulfill the necessary emergency depth if Frazier were to win his spot.

As for the original question: only if he is going to see 3-5 starts per week. While that will be tough in a utility role, it is possible if Frazier were to win a share of left field. With Frazier getting 3 starts a week in left and 1-2 each week between third, second and first. This would allow our bench the ultimate flexibility. Hanigan at backup catcher, Janish as backup infielder and Gomes as a backup OF/ pinch hitter as well as Balentien or Nix. This bench offers the most potential of any other we could feel and with the addition of Owings, could provide some real pop.

I hope Frazier makes the team out of spring as his bat has the potential to be a real difference maker and put us into the thick of a pennant race.

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 05:07 PM
So when we receive that PTBNL for Tavares we can let him go? Or is that the player that must stay in the system to represent Rosales?

If you get rid of Miles then that makes that PTBNL all the more important. You don't understand how upset it'll make me if we ended up tradin' Willy T for nut 'in.

BRM
03-02-2010, 05:13 PM
If you get rid of Miles then that makes that PTBNL all the more important. You don't understand how upset it'll make me if we ended up tradin' Willy T for nut 'in.

Really? You would be upset if Willy was dumped for nothing?

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 05:23 PM
Really? You would be upset if Willy was dumped for nothing?

;)

Sea Ray
03-02-2010, 05:24 PM
We're only talking about the 24th or 25th man. Seriously, as far as I'm concerned let 'em play it out and may the best man win...

camisadelgolf
03-02-2010, 07:36 PM
Just so you all know, the Reds won't be receiving a PTBNL for Taveras. They received a little more cash instead.