PDA

View Full Version : Harang to start opening day



SidneySlicker
03-03-2010, 10:22 AM
C. Trent

Baker says #Reds rotation will be Harang, Cueto, Arroyo, Bailey and 5th guy

Nothing earth shattering here. Hopefully Arroyo and Bailey can pick up where he left off last year.

CySeymour
03-03-2010, 12:21 PM
No, nothing earth shattering. But, am I the only one who gets bothered by Arroyo saying he doesn't want to pitch on opening day because of all the hoopla?

ian_madden
03-03-2010, 12:39 PM
That is fine, but i really thought Arroyo and bailey jumped Cueto in performance last year. Next year Homer will be our opening day starter. He will be the most consistent, dependable starter on our roster. Mark it down.

texasdave
03-03-2010, 12:40 PM
I would love for Arroyo to be bothered by some playoff hoopla in 2010. But, to answer the question, no it doesn't bother me at all.

Redsfan320
03-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Arroyo also said he didn't want to pitch during the day. :rolleyes: Wear sunglasses and get over it. Either you can pitch or you can't.

320

texasdave
03-03-2010, 01:13 PM
A brief glance back at Arroyo's records shows that he has been pretty much a workhorse for the Reds. In his four seasons in Cincinnati he has made at least 33 starts and pitched at least 200 innings each year. If you were to place a wager on which pitcher would make the most starts and pitch the most innings for the Reds in 2010 the smart money would be on Bronson. If he wants to sit out Opening Day and watch the festivities so be it. It's a six-month marathon and nobody will remember who is in first place after Opening Day.

bigredbunter
03-03-2010, 01:33 PM
Arroyo also said he didn't want to pitch during the day. :rolleyes: Wear sunglasses and get over it. Either you can pitch or you can't.

320

I guess my intuition tells me to put people in spots where they think they'll be successful.

SidneySlicker
03-03-2010, 01:40 PM
My hope is that Harang rebounds and can help our rotation be the strength of the team. That was if they are in contention he can be a leader of the staff and if they aren't he will be a tradeable commodity.

bounty37h
03-03-2010, 01:47 PM
Prob as much to show still have confidence in him, help him with his own confidence heading into the season, relax and do what you do...

BLEEDS
03-03-2010, 01:56 PM
Arroyo historically does not pitch well during day games - and this is likely putting it VERY lightly.

If you read the quote, he never said he didn't want it, but that he'd prefer to be #2 or #3. I think that is also a respect thing to Harang. He also said Harang is the more consistent pitcher and deserves the start.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Redsfan320
03-03-2010, 02:10 PM
I understand he pitches horribly in day games. I'm just saying he shouldn't. It's ridiculous.

320

BLEEDS
03-03-2010, 02:34 PM
I understand he pitches horribly in day games. I'm just saying he shouldn't. It's ridiculous.

320

Maybe. Maybe not. There might be some actually plausible reason as to why he pitches much better at night. I'll bet it has something to do with the amount of rest, etc. Maybe. Who cares. It appears to be a trend, so it is wise to actually avoid it if possible.

AND, did anyone miss this Dusty Quote:
Baker also said he doesn’t plan to pitch Harang and Arroyo back-to-back in the rotation. Because they can be relied on to pitch deep into games, he thinks splitting them up will make sure his bullpen isn’t overworked.

“If you have the two together and the others don’t give you innings, then you have to use up your ‘pen,” Baker said.

WHO says Bakermetrics don't get it right sometimes!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

CySeymour
03-03-2010, 03:16 PM
AND, did anyone miss this Dusty Quote:
Baker also said he doesn’t plan to pitch Harang and Arroyo back-to-back in the rotation. Because they can be relied on to pitch deep into games, he thinks splitting them up will make sure his bullpen isn’t overworked.

“If you have the two together and the others don’t give you innings, then you have to use up your ‘pen,” Baker said.


Kudos for this....smart move by Dusty. I've thought they should have done this in the past.

texasdave
03-03-2010, 03:48 PM
If your bottom three starters aren't giving you innings does it really matter how fresh you bullpen is? Especially with this "three runs and a cloud of dust" offense?

And another thing, wouldn't it be most logical to stick your #5 starter in between Harang and Arroyo since that is the pitcher most likely to get blown out of the water early?

mroby85
03-03-2010, 04:09 PM
Ugh, Harang again. I guess they want to get him an early start on his 16 losses. He can't pitch with Carpenter, and won't be able to match up with other #1's all season.

davereds24
03-03-2010, 05:11 PM
Ugh, Harang again. I guess they want to get him an early start on his 16 losses. He can't pitch with Carpenter, and won't be able to match up with other #1's all season.

I take it you've missed the last several opening days? harang has more than held his own against some of the best in the game.

Kingspoint
03-03-2010, 05:17 PM
Its....

so....

hard....

not....

to....

say....

something....

negative.

Well, the starters know their roles early. I suppose that can be a benefit. I guess there won't be any injuries, minor or major, during the Spring.

Kingspoint
03-03-2010, 05:18 PM
I take it you've missed the last several opening days? harang has more than held his own against some of the best in the game.

Then he crashed an burned both seasons turning in one of the worst performances on the season in both of the last two years.

Now, that's not negative. That's just fact. Giving facts are different.

mroby85
03-03-2010, 06:17 PM
I take it you've missed the last several opening days? harang has more than held his own against some of the best in the game.

Nope, I was actually at 3 out of the last 4, and haven't seen a win. He's 1-3 in his 4 opening day starts, and his pitching has drastically fallen off the last couple years. Arroyo won 15 games while Harang lost 14 games. You can use the old run support line they always use for him if you want, but he hasn't been pitching well recently. Aaron Harang is 75-80 career, while arroyo is 83-80, and Arroyo was clearly outpitching him by seasons end last year, not to mention Arroyo has much more potential to show up with unhittable type stuff for a game.

RedsATOfreak
03-03-2010, 07:44 PM
Harang deserves it, he is the veteran on the team and is use to Opening Day. Bronson only likes to pitch night games which is weird... Only wish Volquez was healthy, he be making the biggest start of his career

mroby85
03-03-2010, 09:26 PM
Harang deserves it, he is the veteran on the team and is use to Opening Day. Bronson only likes to pitch night games which is weird... Only wish Volquez was healthy, he be making the biggest start of his career

If Arroyo goes 3rd like it says, he'll be pitching an afternoon game anyway.

Over the last 2 years Arroyo has piled up 18 more wins than Harang, and posted a better ERA in both 2008, and 2009. There is no denying the run support for Harang hasn't been good, but it seems like a lot of times if Harang gets 2 runs he'll give up 3, and if he gets 5 he'll give up 6. He just hasn't been the same pitcher the last couple years he was a few years ago.

markymark69
03-03-2010, 09:49 PM
No, nothing earth shattering. But, am I the only one who gets bothered by Arroyo saying he doesn't want to pitch on opening day because of all the hoopla?

Not surprised. Arroyo has admitted that he doesn't like pitching during the day and some guys are not cut out for opening day. Harang has done well on the Opening Day except one time. I am surprised that Arroyo is not No.2 because as No. 3 he will have to pitch during the day in game 3.

Krawhitham
03-03-2010, 10:58 PM
Harang deserves it, he is the veteran on the team and is use to Opening Day.

He might be use to it but he is not successful at it

davereds24
03-04-2010, 01:25 AM
Then he crashed an burned both seasons turning in one of the worst performances on the season in both of the last two years.

Now, that's not negative. That's just fact. Giving facts are different.

what does the entire season have to do with opening day? he's given up 3 earned runs in the last 3 opening day starts. that's just fact. giving facts are different.


Nope, I was actually at 3 out of the last 4, and haven't seen a win. He's 1-3 in his 4 opening day starts, and his pitching has drastically fallen off the last couple years. Arroyo won 15 games while Harang lost 14 games. You can use the old run support line they always use for him if you want, but he hasn't been pitching well recently. Aaron Harang is 75-80 career, while arroyo is 83-80, and Arroyo was clearly outpitching him by seasons end last year, not to mention Arroyo has much more potential to show up with unhittable type stuff for a game.

you seriously think arroyo could do better than the 3 earned runs harang put up combined over the last 2 opening days? that's in his worst years. when has arroyo had this unhittable type stuff in a game that had some importance, especially during the day?

MBZags
03-04-2010, 02:48 AM
Comparing Harang and Arroyo, there really isn't that much of a difference over the past two seasons. In 2008, Harang had an ERA+ of 92 while Arroyo's was 93. In 2009, Harang improved to 102, and Arroyo checked in at 112. Considering Arroyo's beastly second half that he will likely never duplicate, I don't see much of a difference between the two.

Plus, given Arroyo's comments, I would rather have a guy who actually wants the ball on Opening Day. If Arroyo feels more comfortable pitching on a day with less fanfare, then more power to him. Moreover, Price seems really optimistic about Harang's ability to bounce back. I'm prone to trust a pitching coach, especially one with Price's resume, in that respect.

gilpdawg
03-04-2010, 03:13 AM
and won't be able to match up with other #1's all season.
I say this every year, and it never changes. Your OD starter, after the first week or two of the season, doesn't face the other OD starters. Injuries, off days, ect, change the rotations.

Kingspoint
03-04-2010, 07:39 AM
Harang's problem is mental.

He needs to quit throwing so many juicy pitches during a game. He guesses too many times during a game and he guesses wrong (that he can get a certain "fat pitch" by a guy) too many times.

Harang has better stuff still than Arroyo. Arroyo's just a lot smarter pitcher. Arroyo knows his limitations. Harang does not know his.

Harang should be the ACE of the staff still. He just needs to learn how to pitch like one during a game and stay away from the 4 or 5 dumb pitches he throws every game.

mroby85
03-04-2010, 11:46 AM
I strongly disagree that there has been little difference between harang and arroyo over the past 2 seasons. +18 wins in 2 years is not just a coincidence.

To me the opening day starter has a lot to do with what you've done in entire past seasons, thats why everyone throws their best pitcher on opening day, which is based on their past season performances not opening day starts.

I'm not saying Arroyo is this great shutdown ace, but I think he's better than Harang. Honestly I think Homer Bailey will end up being their best pitcher this season, but I realize you can't really throw him on opening day.

MBZags
03-04-2010, 11:50 AM
Measuring a pitcher by the amount of wins he gets is not a very good method of analysis, though.

Mr Larkin
03-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Harang has been the leader and Bronson doesn't want to take the helm, so its Harang on Opening Day. I'm fine with that. It's just one game on the first day of the season. I can't think of many instances when the first game of 162 game season ended up making the difference. I don't think the Reds have a true "ace" right now -
1. They have a veteran who has had excellent seasons, but the last two were subpar and injury riddled.
2. They have a veteran who over the course of the last two seasons came out looking above average, but within each of those seasons had off the charts horrible starts.
3. They have two young guns who are still establishing themselves and both have tremendous potential - either could have future "ace" stuff but we don't know yet.

Giving Harang the ball on opening day is a good call.

mroby85
03-04-2010, 12:46 PM
Measuring a pitcher by the amount of wins he gets is not a very good method of analysis, though.

I agree, it's not the end-all, but at the same time +18 in 2 seasons is a very big #, not really just a fluke I wouldn't say. He's also topped him in ERA each of the last 2 years. There are different ways of looking at it, I'd just prefer it to not be Harang personally.

1990REDS
03-04-2010, 06:40 PM
Cuetos not the best pitcher on the staff. Baileys doesnt have enough expierence. Arroyo doesnt want the ball and we still dont know who the 5th starter is. That leaves Harang. Dont really see a reason why he shouldnt start.

will5979
03-10-2010, 09:34 AM
Man I hope ole Dusty changes his mind about Harang starting opening day this year...I have a feeling he is done.