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View Full Version : Is Chapman a better prospect than Strasburg?



fearofpopvol1
03-08-2010, 06:43 PM
Yay? Nay? Maybe?

If you could have Strasburg over Chapman, would you prefer Strasburg over Chapman?

Discuss.

Scrap Irony
03-08-2010, 06:46 PM
I think they're different sides of the same coin. Chapman's "wildness" trumps Strasburg's "injury concerns", Strasburg's college dominance trumps Chapman's left-handedness.

Even for now, but, my oh my, is Chapman fun, or what? Those that ranked him low in their minor league Top 100's should really be feeling silly right about now.

GADawg
03-08-2010, 06:51 PM
I'll take Chapman for now considering who he will be surrounded by....also the fact that his name is rarely mentioned without the "101 or 102 mph" tag scares me a little. I hope he doesn't feel the pressure to impress the radar worshipers with every toss.

cincrazy
03-08-2010, 07:13 PM
I think they're different sides of the same coin. Chapman's "wildness" trumps Strasburg's "injury concerns", Strasburg's college dominance trumps Chapman's left-handedness.

Even for now, but, my oh my, is Chapman fun, or what? Those that ranked him low in their minor league Top 100's should really be feeling silly right about now.

Well, I don't think they should feel silly, per se. It's natural to have a lot of questions about the kid, he doesn't get a lot of exposure to the masses in Cuba.

But clearly, all of the hype surrounding him was real. And this is exciting :).

lollipopcurve
03-08-2010, 07:23 PM
I say maybe. Time will tell.

As far as the prospect pundits go, Strasburg's status is untouchable. I think you'll see the "experts" hold onto the notion that Chapman is raw/wild/a thrower for quite a while. If the Reds take him north out of the chute, they'll say they're rushing him. Just a guess.

RedsManRick
03-08-2010, 07:28 PM
I think Chapman may well have the higher ceiling, albeit slightly, but Strasburg has a higher weighted mean outcome -- e.g. more likely to be closer to his ceiling.

MikeS21
03-08-2010, 07:40 PM
At this point, I still go with Strasburg - simply because of the college time polish. Almost any pitcher who throws in the mid-upper 90's is going to be an injury concern.

Chapman was impressive, no doubt. But it was only the third game of Spring Training and hardly against front line hitters.

I do admit grinning when I think about Chapman blowing a 100 mph fastball by Albert Puljos ... for the next five years! :D

Homer Bailey
03-08-2010, 07:42 PM
I'm going to go with Chapman. Something about the fact that Strasburg's fastball went from 90 MPH to 100 MPH in one season is a major red flag for me.

Will M
03-08-2010, 07:52 PM
I say maybe. Time will tell.

As far as the prospect pundits go, Strasburg's status is untouchable. I think you'll see the "experts" hold onto the notion that Chapman is raw/wild/a thrower for quite a while. If the Reds take him north out of the chute, they'll say they're rushing him. Just a guess.

the 'experts' are usually not very creative. if they go out on a limb and say "he's awesome. ROY for sure" and he flounders then they look dumb. however, if the opposite occurs (they go with the standard opinion) and he does great then they can say "well everyone thought the same thing as me".
take a look at preseason baseball magazines. most have the divisions predicted very similar to last years finish. they do this every single year.

REDblooded
03-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Huge homer risk here, but I'd also take Chapman... Encouraging things I've recently read about Chapman...

1.) Kremchek grading out his elbow/shoulder MRI as pristine... Would guess he's had less stressful workload on his arm at this point than Strasburg.

2.) After inter-squad scrimmage said he didn't want to see the radar gun readings... Implies that he is intelligent enough to NOT get caught up in the numbers, and is more focused on just pitching.

3.) Pitching coach... I'll take what the Reds have working with Chapman over what the Nationals have any day of the week...

4.) Maturity/coachability issues sound VASTLY overrated... Doesn't care about radar readings, recognized and fixed mechanical issue on his own when he was finally able to see himself on video...

5.) Control issues... This was supposed to be his major drawback as a prospect along with maturity problems... So far we've seen a bullpen session, inter-squad game, and spring training game that suggest those control issues may have been exagerated... Outside of beaning Frazier, his control has been very solid, and even when allowing runners early, his stuff is so dominant that he can dig himself out of a jam quickly... That coupled with the fact that he feels more comfortable pitching out of the stretch suggests that even if he gives up an early walk he actually places himself in his comfort zone and I'm growing less and less worried about the control issues with each appearance.

Chip R
03-08-2010, 08:40 PM
I think Chapman is more advanced than Strasburg. He's been pitching at a higher level against better and older competition for longer than Strasburg. Strasburg may be on the fast track but it's likely he'll get lit up for a while when he reaches the majors. He could go either way after that. He's going to be seen as the savior once he gets up to the Nats and he'll have a lot of pressure on him. They might be tempted to use him more than they should and he could come down with arm problems.

Chapman, on the other hand has a lot of expectations but isn't seen as the savior. His big plus is that he's left handed and more experienced. While it's possible that once he's in the rotation he could be overused, he's supposed to have a pristine MRI and there seems to be something about these Cuban pitchers that makes them able to pitch a lot of innings over the years. Chapman's also going to be in a smaller media market where less attention will be paid to him - at least until Redskins mini-camp starts. For better or worse he will be able to fly under the radar and there won't be as much pressure on him. Strasburg has a lot of promise but I like Chapman's odds better.

Sea Ray
03-08-2010, 09:08 PM
I'm not picking between these two until I've seen them pitch but Strasburg has done it against major college competition. I have no idea what kind of competition Chapman has pitched against. I do know his numbers were not impressive in the WBC.

dougdirt
03-08-2010, 09:14 PM
I will take Strasburg. I know he can throw a lot of strikes over a long season. I don't have a clue if Chapman can now with his new mechanics, but I know he really struggled to do so in Cuba.

fearofpopvol1
03-08-2010, 09:24 PM
I'm not picking between these two until I've seen them pitch but Strasburg has done it against major college competition. I have no idea what kind of competition Chapman has pitched against. I do know his numbers were not impressive in the WBC.

The Mountain West isn't exactly the best college competion. Granted, that has nothing to do with his skill set, but it's not like he pitched in the Big 12 or anything.

_Sir_Charles_
03-08-2010, 09:41 PM
I like both Strasburg AND Chapman, but personally, I think I like Leake's upside more than Strasburg's right now. Totally different types of pitchers, but I think Leake's the more polished of the two. As for now though, Chapman's more of a wild card right now. Just not enough info on him up to this point.

I have yet to understand how underestimated Leake gets...even here. His numbers compare very favorably to Strasbergs' in college. I know Steven's got the bigger velocity numbers...but results are what impress me. And Leake isn't behind Strasberg in that catagory IMO. (small variations here and there, but overall...very equal. Especially considering the competition they played against...Leake's was tougher)

Captain Hook
03-08-2010, 09:58 PM
I like both Strasburg AND Chapman, but personally, I think I like Leake's upside more than Strasburg's right now. Totally different types of pitchers, but I think Leake's the more polished of the two. As for now though, Chapman's more of a wild card right now. Just not enough info on him up to this point.

I have yet to understand how underestimated Leake gets...even here. His numbers compare very favorably to Strasbergs' in college. I know Steven's got the bigger velocity numbers...but results are what impress me. And Leake isn't behind Strasberg in that catagory IMO. (small variations here and there, but overall...very equal. Especially considering the competition they played against...Leake's was tougher)

Chapman or Strasberg?It sounds like that at this point the argument could go either way and like Sir Charles points out, Leake could also belong in the best pitching prospects conversation. Considering that the Reds already have one of the better young rotations in MLB we should all be very excited about being fans of this team.

REDblooded
03-08-2010, 10:25 PM
I will take Strasburg. I know he can throw a lot of strikes over a long season. I don't have a clue if Chapman can now with his new mechanics, but I know he really struggled to do so in Cuba.

Horribly small sample size that doesn't even equate to one full start, but we've seen 3 sessions now with Chapman where he kept the ball around the plate, and kept it down... That's encouraging...

dougdirt
03-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Horribly small sample size that doesn't even equate to one full start, but we've seen 3 sessions now with Chapman where he kept the ball around the plate, and kept it down... That's encouraging...

Very encouraging. Lets hope it continues as we move forward.

cincinnati chili
03-09-2010, 05:50 AM
I will take Strasburg. I know he can throw a lot of strikes over a long season. I don't have a clue if Chapman can now with his new mechanics, but I know he really struggled to do so in Cuba.

Yes. Great pitchers throw strikes, and in the few instances where they don't throw strikes they are able to recognize what they're doing wrong and correct their deliveries quickly in order to start throwing strikes again.

From what I understand Chapman hasn't figured this out yet, and until he does, he'll be a left-handed Daniel Cabrera.

membengal
03-09-2010, 06:09 AM
In no manner has Chapman shown anything this spring that speaks of being in the same universe as Daniel Cabrera when it comes to control issues. That's a horrible comp based on the data being accumulated.

cincinnati chili
03-09-2010, 08:03 AM
In no manner has Chapman shown anything this spring that speaks of being in the same universe as Daniel Cabrera when it comes to control issues. That's a horrible comp based on the data being accumulated.

Chapman has pitched two innings, which tells me nothing about his ability to quickly "find it" when he's temporarily lost it.

Cabrera has thrown two career shutouts in the major leagues, 6 career complete games, and had one year where he threw more strikeouts than innings pitched (2006). In other words, he has been utterly dominant at times, but never learned to repeat his delivery and figure out what's going on after he's lost sight of the strike zone.

Also, Cabrera has a career ERA of 5.10 (most of it in the offense-laden AL East), which is decidedly better than the major league equivalent projections for Chapman for 2010 should he pitch in he major leagues this year.

So, while my hopes are high for Chapman, I respectfully disagree that Cabrera is a bad comp. It's a good comp until Chapman proves that he's learned how to pitch with consistency.

klw
03-09-2010, 08:31 AM
From what I understand Chapman hasn't figured this out yet, and until he does, he'll be a left-handed Daniel Cabrera.

Hopefully he is also much better at the plate than Cabrera or else he will make Harang look like Roger Hornsby.

membengal
03-09-2010, 09:15 AM
I respectfully say that your comp is based on the fleeting glimpses that scouts got of Chapman in limited viewings, and may not have been near the entire picture with him. In fact, it would appear, thankfully it wasn't, or the Reds would never have won the bidding for him.

lollipopcurve
03-09-2010, 09:23 AM
So, while my hopes are high for Chapman, I respectfully disagree that Cabrera is a bad comp. It's a good comp until Chapman proves that he's learned how to pitch with consistency.

While it makes sense to be cautious with expectations, I wouldn't ignore all the anecdotal stuff we're hearing about his control, coachability, savvy and work ethic. In my mind, at this point the Cabrera comp is a worst case scenario and highly unlikely to hold up.

membengal
03-09-2010, 09:31 AM
Absolutely expectations should be tempered. As much as possible. But I don't know that any comp is helpful at this point. Whether it be Randy Johnson or Daniel Cabrera. I do know that what the Reds have seen of Chapman, and it has been since January that they have been working with him, that there have been zero indications of any kind of command issues as were reported to be a part of his make-up. By all reports he has been coachable, with a good understanding of what adjustments need to be made. Whatever was in his scouting report on command, I tend to discount at this time.

Remember, per one of the articles, that he hadn't even seen film of himself pitching until about a year ago, and then made an immediate change on his own, one that the Reds were going to address with him and were pleasantly surprised that he had already fixed. It seems to me he is teachable, willing to learn, and that is a real plus to go with that stuff.

jojo
03-09-2010, 09:42 AM
Strasburg.

membengal
03-09-2010, 09:48 AM
I see Randy in Char lurking on the thread, I would be curious from his perspective what it means that Chapman seems so coachable in terms of the command issue. Seems to me that one stumbling block with young pitchers is if they think they know it all, and getting beyond that can be an issue. Chapman does not seem to have that issue at this point.

bucksfan2
03-09-2010, 10:27 AM
Im putting on my rosy colored glasses.....and it Strasburg by a mile. There is too much unknown about Chapman to rank him ahead of Strasburg at this point in his career. It also didn't hurt that Strasburg had Tony Gwynn as his coach at SDS, who had Strasburg's best interest in most of his coaching decisions.

I think Chapman is interesting, but there is at least 3+ years of video from Strasburg and only limited video in Chapman's case.

MikeS21
03-09-2010, 10:32 AM
I know it is a pipe dream, but I would love to see the Reds FO forget all the PR stuff for 2010, and keep Chapman in the minors for all the 2010 season. I don't care if he K's 200 and has a 0.25 ERA over 150 innings. Keep him in the minors and let him adjust to life in America. Let him work on his command in the minors. One year of seasoning will only help. When the minor league season is over, shut him down.

Throw the fans in Louisville and Carolina a bone and let him give them a summer of thrills as he polishes his game.

The Reds do not have the offensive horses to compete in 2010. Why rush him to the majors at all this year, except as a ploy to put fans in the seats in late summer? Cincinnati fans can live one season without Chapman if they know he is on his way in 2011.

membengal
03-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Just a question...in terms of acclimating to America, where would the best place for him to do that be, exactly? The Reds have Spanish speakers at manager and pitching coach, not to mention Ramon H., Cordero, Cueto, Volquez (to the extent he hangs with the team until rehab starts), Orlando Cabrera speak spanish too? At any rate, there is a built-in support system for Chapman in Cincy, that may not be there to the same extent at AAA or AA.

lollipopcurve
03-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Just a question...in terms of acclimating to America, where would the best place for him to do that be, exactly? The Reds have Spanish speakers at manager and pitching coach, not to mention Ramon H., Cordero, Cueto, Volquez (to the extent he hangs with the team until rehab starts), Orlando Cabrera speak spanish too? At any rate, there is a built-in support system for Chapman in Cincy, that may not be there to the same extent at AAA or AA.

He'd be more comfortable in the big leagues with the group of players who are on the 25-man. In addition, the big league club can control his environment more reliably than a minor league club can.

Kc61
03-09-2010, 11:35 AM
He'd be more comfortable in the big leagues with the group of players who are on the 25-man. In addition, the big league club can control his environment more reliably than a minor league club can.


I'd probably give Chapman a few starts at AAA to make sure he is stretched out and can work 6-7 innings. I'd then bring him up to Cincy as early as possible.

When a guy is this good, you don't want him using up his bullets in the minors. Just make sure he is comfortable throwing 100-110 pitches and get him in the Reds rotation.

Sea Ray
03-09-2010, 11:42 AM
It's still too early to tell but I stand by my earlier comments that he's looking at starting off in AA or AAA

membengal
03-09-2010, 11:43 AM
He'd be more comfortable in the big leagues with the group of players who are on the 25-man. In addition, the big league club can control his environment more reliably than a minor league club can.

That's precisely where I am coming down at this point.

cumberlandreds
03-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Strasburg made his debut today. The comparisons can start. :)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtWvGhIZmesChpAvyhulmZ45nYcB?slug=ap-nationals-strasburgsdebut&prov=ap&type=lgns

jojo
03-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Think about this for a sec... in theory, the Nats could've added both Strasburg and Chapman....

Could you imagine the Reds pulling something like that off?

TRF
03-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Think about this for a sec... in theory, the Nats could've added both Strasburg and Chapman....

Could you imagine the Reds pulling something like that off?

And how long until Zimmermann is pitching again? I think the Nats still need some major pieces, but their GM is moving in the right direction.

lollipopcurve
03-09-2010, 03:53 PM
Think about this for a sec... in theory, the Nats could've added both Strasburg and Chapman....

Could you imagine the Reds pulling something like that off?

I can now. They're one of only 2 teams to get either guy -- and the Reds got theirs by outcompeting multiple bidders. The Nats got theirs by default.

Your point?

jojo
03-09-2010, 03:56 PM
Your point?

It would be cool and we'd still be jumping up and down like school boys.

lollipopcurve
03-09-2010, 04:43 PM
It would be cool and we'd still be jumping up and down like school boys.

Still jumping!

klw
03-09-2010, 04:44 PM
Just a question...in terms of acclimating to America, where would the best place for him to do that be, exactly? The Reds have Spanish speakers at manager and pitching coach, not to mention Ramon H., Cordero, Cueto, Volquez (to the extent he hangs with the team until rehab starts), Orlando Cabrera speak spanish too? At any rate, there is a built-in support system for Chapman in Cincy, that may not be there to the same extent at AAA or AA.

Well his best friend in America appears to be the pitching coach at Dayton

membengal
03-09-2010, 06:16 PM
And I cannot imagine a scenario whereby they start him at low A, can you?

TheNext44
03-09-2010, 07:10 PM
Think about this for a sec... in theory, the Nats could've added both Strasburg and Chapman....

Could you imagine the Reds pulling something like that off?

Well, considering I still can't imagine the Reds pulling off the signing of just Chapman, even though they have actually done it, no way I can imagine adding both. :cool:

11larkin11
03-09-2010, 08:26 PM
Think about this for a sec... in theory, the Nats could've added both Strasburg and Chapman....

Could you imagine the Reds pulling something like that off?

And they're most likely going to snag Harper

fearofpopvol1
03-21-2010, 11:41 PM
I know I spend more time here than I do on espn.com or other sports sites, but it seems like nationally, Chapman is receiving more attention than Strasburg has.

TheNext44
03-21-2010, 11:54 PM
From Fay Twitter:

NL scout on Chapman: He throws harder than Strasburg and his slider is better. #reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

REDblooded
03-22-2010, 01:59 AM
I do know every fantasy draft I've done so far, Strasburg has gone about 5-6 rounds ahead of Chapman on average... And a few of those occurred after the announcement that Stras was getting sent down... so not sure if the hype is totally on Chapman's side yet...

TheNext44
03-22-2010, 02:16 AM
I do know every fantasy draft I've done so far, Strasburg has gone about 5-6 rounds ahead of Chapman on average... And a few of those occurred after the announcement that Stras was getting sent down... so not sure if the hype is totally on Chapman's side yet...

Sounds like you're in some smart leagues.

I would take Strasburg ahead of Chapman. He's older, and further advanced. Also, we know that Strasburg will be up in the Nat's rotation in June, once he passes the Super Two mark. No one knows anything about Chapman for sure about when he'll be up or what role he will be in.

dougdirt
03-22-2010, 02:17 AM
From Fay Twitter:

NL scout on Chapman: He throws harder than Strasburg and his slider is better. #reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

Throwing harder and having a better slider in scout terms doesn't mean his pitches are better at getting guys out. Control was never mentioned there and I would take Strasburg for now in that department.

TheNext44
03-22-2010, 02:21 AM
Throwing harder and having a better slider in scout terms doesn't mean his pitches are better at getting guys out. Control was never mentioned there and I would take Strasburg for now in that department.

Me too, especially after seeing both pitch against MLB hitters. Strasburg really looks like a pitcher, while Chapman looks like he's still learning. Which is understandable, given their ages and past.

Just passing along interesting info about the thread topic.

Sea Ray
03-22-2010, 10:11 AM
Me too, especially after seeing both pitch against MLB hitters. Strasburg really looks like a pitcher, while Chapman looks like he's still learning. Which is understandable, given their ages and past.

Just passing along interesting info about the thread topic.

Since you've seen both of them pitch and you know Strasburg is headed for AA, where do think Chapman should start the season?

cincy09
03-22-2010, 11:31 AM
Sounds like you're in some smart leagues.

I would take Strasburg ahead of Chapman. He's older, and further advanced. Also, we know that Strasburg will be up in the Nat's rotation in June, once he passes the Super Two mark. No one knows anything about Chapman for sure about when he'll be up or what role he will be in.

Chapman is actually 6 months older.

REDblooded
03-22-2010, 12:17 PM
Sounds like you're in some smart leagues.

I would take Strasburg ahead of Chapman. He's older, and further advanced. Also, we know that Strasburg will be up in the Nat's rotation in June, once he passes the Super Two mark. No one knows anything about Chapman for sure about when he'll be up or what role he will be in.

Not so sure I agree with you here... These drafts took place after Strasburg was sent down... Not sure how it's smarter to take him over a guy that's still a possibility for a season-opening roster spot, and at the least will get called up the same time...

flyer85
03-22-2010, 01:27 PM
as a prospect (has nothing to do with what they do in the future) Strasburg has to be considered better simply because he has no command issues which is a concern with Chapman. Chapman if he solves the command and his changeup becomes a good third pitch has the potential to possibly be better. However, as prospects since their "stuff" is similar and their mechanics seem to be good you have to take the guy with better command.

TRF
03-22-2010, 02:27 PM
as a prospect (has nothing to do with what they do in the future) Strasburg has to be considered better simply because he has no command issues which is a concern with Chapman. Chapman if he solves the command and his changeup becomes a good third pitch has the potential to possibly be better. However, as prospects since their "stuff" is similar and their mechanics seem to be good you have to take the guy with better command.

Funny thing about his command issues. They all stem from his time in Cuba and the WBC. Since he's been a Red, albeit in the smallest of sample sizes so far, there hasn't been one person saying he's lacked command.

But every talking head mentions them without talking about how his latest performance, whatever it is/was had no issues.

Just something I have noticed.

membengal
03-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Funny thing about his command issues. They all stem from his time in Cuba and the WBC. Since he's been a Red, albeit in the smallest of sample sizes so far, there hasn't been one person saying he's lacked command.

But every talking head mentions them without talking about how his latest performance, whatever it is/was had no issues.

Just something I have noticed.

Indeed...

TheNext44
03-22-2010, 03:39 PM
Since you've seen both of them pitch and you know Strasburg is headed for AA, where do think Chapman should start the season?

Definitely not the majors. He may be the best pitcher among the #5 candidates, but he still is very raw. There is a lot more to being a major league pitcher than just pitching.

In terms of which minor league team, I don't think it really matters that much, so I probably would send him to which ever city has the best Cuban Sandwiches. :-)

Sea Ray
03-22-2010, 03:51 PM
Definitely not the majors. He may be the best pitcher among the #5 candidates, but he still is very raw. There is a lot more to being a major league pitcher than just pitching.

In terms of which minor league team, I don't think it really matters that much, so I probably would send him to which ever city has the best Cuban Sandwiches. :-)

I agree. Looks like folks are coming around. I sure heard from the folks when I wrote this on the first of the month:


I don't think we'll see Chapman in the Opening Day rotation. Redszone is buying into the media driven Chapman hype. I think he has an outside shot of starting the year in Louisville and that's if he's really impressive on and off the field. I'll go one further and add that I do not think he'll earn enough service time to be a Super Two after the 2012 season.

dougdirt
03-22-2010, 03:52 PM
Funny thing about his command issues. They all stem from his time in Cuba and the WBC. Since he's been a Red, albeit in the smallest of sample sizes so far, there hasn't been one person saying he's lacked command.

But every talking head mentions them without talking about how his latest performance, whatever it is/was had no issues.

Just something I have noticed.

Not so sure there.
From www.CNati.com


Brewers starter Doug Davis batted against him, grounding out, and also watched intently from the dugout.
"It looked like he didn't have good command of his off-speed pitches, he pulled off it a little," Davis said. "But what is he? 22? He's going to be one of the greats if he stays healthy."



Here's the pitch-by-pitch if you're interested:

Repko -- B, F3
DeJesus -- B, B, B, K(L), K(L), 1B
Furcal -- K, F, B, B, 1B
Ausmus -- F, K (Reyes, pr, CS), B, B, B, 3

Either -- K(L), 5f
Kemp -- K(Looking, 100 mph), K, B, F, B, B, F, K (90 mph change)
Blake -- K (L), B, K, B, B, K (looking, 83 mph change)
Here we have his game from the 11th or 12th. That game he threw 15 balls and 20 strikes.

membengal
03-22-2010, 03:59 PM
I agree. Looks like folks are coming around. I sure heard from the folks when I wrote this on the first of the month:

I continue to maintain if he keeps throwing like he has, he should start in Cincy. That hasn't changed. I just don't see the point in jumping in and saying that every time one of you voices a different opinion.

flyer85
03-22-2010, 04:08 PM
But every talking head mentions them without talking about how his latest performance, whatever it is/was had no issues.

Just something I have noticed.... however, it is only spring training. Maybe the mechanical changes have fixed his issues (entirely possible) but we won't know for sure until the green flag drops.

Homer Bailey
08-27-2010, 12:25 PM
I'm going to go with Chapman. Something about the fact that Strasburg's fastball went from 90 MPH to 100 MPH in one season is a major red flag for me.

I'm certainly not the only one to be somewhat right in this thread. Interesting re-read.

fearofpopvol1
09-01-2010, 01:47 AM
For the record...ESPN.com did a poll tonight (just go to the MLB page)...which pitcher would you rather control for the next 5 years...Strasburg or Chapman and 59% of the country said Chapman and 41% said Strasburg. Now, no doubt Strasburg's injury is skewing this poll. And who knows if the majority is right, but we are talking over 10,000 sports fan here. A pretty good sample size.

Brutus
09-01-2010, 01:51 AM
I have maintained all along that Chapman probably has better pure, raw stuff. Strasburg for me, is more polished and has better command of his pitches. That said... Chapman's pitches are electric and the sky is truly the limit for him.

GoReds
09-01-2010, 07:19 AM
In looking at Chapman's delivery, doesn't it look like he has the inverted W delivery or am I just imagining it?

buckeyenut
09-01-2010, 07:57 AM
Only thing that matters with both at this point is injury. Either will be a superstar if they can stay healthy.

jojo
09-01-2010, 08:34 AM
The average speed on Chapman's 6 fastballs from last night was:

101mph

medford
09-01-2010, 10:01 AM
In looking at Chapman's delivery, doesn't it look like he has the inverted W delivery or am I just imagining it?

I'm not mechanics expert, and its hard to tell unless you're looking from a certain angle (at least for me anyways) but I didn't see it. His arms looked fairly parallel, if not slightly below his shoulders when he threw. Saw a replay of a Bray pitch the other night, and its pretty clear he has the inverted W, which explains the TJS.

CarolinaRedleg
09-01-2010, 11:35 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/429194/ChapmanSL2.gif

I could watch this again and again and again and......

traderumor
09-01-2010, 11:36 AM
Oh, there's Lucroy "just getting himself out." :D

membengal
09-01-2010, 11:40 AM
Lucroy to self:
"Stupid stupid stupid. How can you get yourself out on an 87 mph slider with an eight inch horizontal break..."

medford
09-01-2010, 11:58 AM
If Lucoy thinks he got himself out on bad pitches, I'd hate to see what a good pitch looked like.

dougdirt
09-01-2010, 12:14 PM
In looking at Chapman's delivery, doesn't it look like he has the inverted W delivery or am I just imagining it?

You are imagining it. Chapman does make an M/W with his arms, but he does so behind his back. That is generally ok.

GoReds
09-01-2010, 12:42 PM
You are imagining it. Chapman does make an M/W with his arms, but he does so behind his back. That is generally ok.

Thanks Doug. Hopefully, Chapman has a long, healthy career with the Reds.

medford
09-01-2010, 12:45 PM
Hey Doug, do you have any old video/pics of Chapman in ST to compare with? I saw a ST picture today that looked a lot like the inverted W, but like you said, I saw no evidence of that last night, though I'm certainly no expert. I know they worked on his mechanics, wonder if that was some of the changes.

_Sir_Charles_
09-01-2010, 12:47 PM
I refuse to call it an inverted anything. It's an "M". And Aroldis has it. ChapMan. And that's the only place I see one.

Always Red
09-01-2010, 12:55 PM
You are imagining it. Chapman does make an M/W with his arms, but he does so behind his back. That is generally ok.

From Jamie Ramsey's site:

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/IMG_7419.JPG

Cedric
09-01-2010, 12:58 PM
From Jamie Ramsey's site:

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/IMG_7419.JPG

Not bad at all. Elbow way below shoulder.

_Sir_Charles_
09-01-2010, 12:59 PM
Exactly. At worst, I've seen him go parallel to the ground..

dougdirt
09-01-2010, 01:29 PM
Hey Doug, do you have any old video/pics of Chapman in ST to compare with? I saw a ST picture today that looked a lot like the inverted W, but like you said, I saw no evidence of that last night, though I'm certainly no expert. I know they worked on his mechanics, wonder if that was some of the changes.

What picture?

sabometrics
09-02-2010, 03:08 AM
From browsing this (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/DeathToTheInvertedW.html) link the key is that the elbows are above the shoulders in the "Inverted W." Chapman surely does not fulfill that criteria from what I've seen. Especially relevant in that link I thought was the analysis of RJ's delivery ;)

Griffey012
09-02-2010, 08:32 AM
From browsing this (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/DeathToTheInvertedW.html) link the key is that the elbows are above the shoulders in the "Inverted W." Chapman surely does not fulfill that criteria from what I've seen. Especially relevant in that link I thought was the analysis of RJ's delivery ;)

To me Chapman looks like he has quite a bit of RJ's delivery in his own. Which is a good thing, as RJ had a pretty healthy career minus some back issues later down the road.

On another note: As slow, long, and methodical as Chapman's delivery is his 102 mph fastballs look about 110 on tv. I have never seen someone throw anything that looks close to as hard as him.

medford
09-02-2010, 08:47 AM
What picture?

I thought it was either Mo's or Lance's blog on homer247, but I don't see it there now. After reading that article, I could have been confused from the picture the way they described in the Randy Johnson/Carlos Marmol photos, or perhaps they worked to lower his elbows below his shoulder. I know they worked on his mechanics with him, but I don't know what mechanics that was. Perhaps the Louisville pitching coach would make a good interview for what they worked on specifically during the season.

traderumor
09-02-2010, 01:45 PM
I'm picturing Aroldis Chapman's Strat card at this rate. :beerme:

The Voice of IH
09-02-2010, 02:09 PM
going back to the original question, I think They are both great players, and would take either. I am going to say Maybe, but it will be interesting down the road.

Reds1
09-02-2010, 02:29 PM
Right now he's much better!